It is not accepted, in general, by those of the Reformed, Lutheran, or Anglican/Episcopalian denominations, as they are generally amillennialists.
Dispensational Premillennialism has gone through some revisions over the past 193 years. I suggest that people take the time to study this movement from both the angle of those who support it and those who give reasons they reject it as unbiblical. I have done this very thing over the past several months. Many people grew up with this teaching, so they do not question it. I understand that. For myself I was first introduced to it in my 20's and leaned towards that because I did not have resources to really study it at that time. But after about 10 years, I realized that this does not seem to fit Scripture, so I instead fellowshipped in churches that did not teach it.
And now, 20 years after that, I have taken the time to really investigate it. I wanted to know if this theory has any merit according to Scripture. So I have spent the past few months doing so. I read from both sides, pro and con with my Bible in hand. There are just too many aspects of this theory that I cannot support it. But each person should do their due diligence to test this theory with openness and prayerfulness. If I had this information 40 years ago, I would not have been taken in by the little I knew of it.
Country Jean, I am glad you brought this up. We should always be seekers of the truth in God's Word and be wary of any "new" teachings, revelations, etc. that become the "new ideas" for our faith. Just because something is new does not, in itself, make it incorrect, but there is long-standing consistent teachings across the church age that should also be examined before one takes the teaching of another. The witness of those in the church past are just as valid as any teachings of any person today. Those from the past had the Bible, just like us, to check their thinking against the revealed Word.
I agree with you. The pre-tribulation rapture theory that was thought up in the early 1800, especially by John. Nelson Darby, didn't square with the millennial reign of Christ for a 1000 if the church was raptured out before the Tribulation. So, Darby had to come up with the ideas of two plans of God for two groups of people, Jews and Gentiles. Thus we get the teaching that the Jews are separated from the Church. Then this teaching led to the creation of "Dispensations" in order to interpret Scripture in a way that keeps the Jews and Christians separate.
This teaching was first held and taught among the Plymouth Brethren, of which Darby was one of the founding members. This sect began Ireland and then moved to Plymouth, England where it began to grow in numbers. It has always been a very small sect where each fellowship was independent of others. It has been riddled with split after split after split since its inception with much dissension and angst between groups. Under Darby, one faction became a separatist group. And then this faction split again and again up to present day. The separatist faction is very strict about not mingling with those outside the group and have many cult-like practices.
Dispensational premillennialism with the teaching of the pre-tribulation rapture began to spread when Darby and other founders began to travel outside of the U.K. This theory took off in the U.S. with the printing of the Scofield Bible that included footnotes that reflected dispensational premillennialist teachings. Soon, this theory spread all over the U.S. in congregations outside of the Plymouth Brethren until it became the prevailing theory among Protestantism.
This theory came into existence in this setting. It is not a theory that has been a long-standing teaching of the church over the centuries. It differs from what is called "historical premillennialism" in significant ways.
Because there is no difference between Jew or gentile why is so much teaching to use rapture to say otherwise? We are all one in Christ. Jesus said we are not of this world. This is not His kingdom. He is ruling seated now. His work is finished as ours will at His return. We seek the new not the end of this one. Much deception leads and blinds Gods truth to those seeking by this twisting of plain truth. And churches seek to tickle ears to gain collections of support over Gods truth. Where are the real believers today?
I, too, looked this up and read some on it. I agree with Chris, that it is not Noah's altar. God usually insisted on an altar being of natural unhewn materials. Gobekli Tepe ruins show that they are sculpted and hewn with ornate images carved on some stones.
The information I read think that the structures of Gobekli Tepe are perhaps the oldest man designed to date (estimated 9000-8000 or so B.C.). This may be pre-flood architecture, most likely a pagan temple of some kind, whether it is pre or post flood.It was first discovered over 100 years ago. It has taken a long time to excavate each level, and there are most likely more levels beneath what is now excavated.
Hello Deborah. I had to do a little research on the Gobekli Tepe & from it I learned that there are a couple of reasons why it cannot be associated with the altar that Noah built ( Genesis 8:20). This Noahic altar would have been very primitive, using the material in the area to construct something large enough to sacrifice several clean beasts & fowls. Whereas the ruins of the Gobekli Tepe indicate it was once an elaborate temple, with its scattered building blocks covering an extended area. I doubt whether Noah would have wanted to construct an 'altar' so large so as to be used for worship as well. It seemed more likely that he wanted to speedily offer sacrifices of thanksgiving to the LORD Who brought him, his family & animals through the deluge.
Secondly, when placing both Mt. Ararat & the Gobekli Tepe on a map, I find that Ararat is at the very eastern edge of present day Turkey, bordering Iran & Armenia. Whereas, the Gobekli Tepe was located & examined six miles from Urfa at the southern end of Turkey, near the Syrian border. Without using a scale, my guess is that the distance would be approx. 420 miles between the two. So this also might prove that Noah would not have travelled this distance or more, with the absence of roads, to build an altar.
Do you have any compelling evidence to the contrary? Or maybe others have thoughts on this.
Hello Joanne. Of Noah's sons, Japheth was the eldest ( Genesis 10:21) & Ham was the youngest ( Genesis 9:24). Therefore, Shem would have to be the middle son.
We're not given the name of Noah's wife in the Bible. However, many pieces of non-biblical literature & traditions from various religions, each give her a different name. Maybe one of them is correct, or more likely, none at all.
It's like this Genesis: GOD gave dominion to man over the Earth, including sea. Gen. 1:28, It's a ' stewardship ' that all men will give an account for. Matthew 25:31-46, yet the Earth still belongs to GOD : 1Corinthains 10:26,
GOD gave Moses a set of "Best Laws" That if people obeyed, would cut down on suffering. Instead many have rebelliously rejected, mocked & ignored & refusal to enforce. Whose then to blame for suffering in consequence? Proverbs 3:27,
I think it amazing that GOD intervenes on our behalf so many times. Exodus 3:9, Psalms 12:5,
& ultimately gave us Salvation John 3:16-18, Ecclesiastes 5:8,
Christians doing good things for God will be persecuted. Once I lived in Tulsa Oklahoma a few years. Every day ORU (Oral Roberts University) was heckled and ridiculed on the Radio. Without mercy; from the UNBELIEVERS.
One night I was street preaching with 5 others. They started Gossiping about Oral Roberts. We don't get a pass on persecuting The Brethern__like the unbelievers. I was NOT joining in this character assassination. I'm hanging back of the pack.
ANYONE doing great things for God, is going to become a Target for Satan. Look at Orals first days in ministry. People were being healed! The lame walked, the blind see, etc. He had a DREAM to build a great University to teach Christians faith and regular school curriculum. To meet and pray every morning; to teach evangelism. He built a replica of Noah's Ark, so people could see what it may have been like. It's beautiful. He raised money for the University. So people hated on him.
To continue with the story The Holy Spirit fell on me like an asteroid. He said. "Will you Now persecute and Mock a brother in Christ?!! Bite and Devour one of our own?"
I almost fell down in the street. They stared at me like deer. Then they repented, to God. It changed my life forever. If we suffer persecution (Oral Roberts) it means we are doing something right. It's not for me to say one word against what he spent the money on. That is Gods Territory.
I know not all of the students were practicing Christians. Their parents just sent them there to hopefully find Jesus, at some point in their education. Dreams.
Look what happened with Moses. He was gone 40 days, the people got bored, United in sinful desires and built a golden calf to be their God. The adults in on that revolt all died. Never saw the Promised Land. Those are good stories to chew on and get all the revelation out of them. All God truly asks of us is to be obedient and Trust Him.
This question is usually framed something like this: "Does the Bible say that in the last days, you will not be able to know the seasons except by the changing of the leaves?"
We had been asked this question many times and had done extensive research into its origin, but had never been able to find the source of the idea.
Recently, someone helped us find the origin of the concept. Evidently, it comes from the "3 Days of Darkness" prophecy of Padre Pio, a Roman Catholic priest. The exact quote appears to be, "You will know when that time is approaching because the seasons will change so the only way you will know the seasons is by the leaves on the trees." (END QUOTE)
I used to Believe that also until recently when I looked for it and could not find it in the Bible. I did find Genesis 8:22.
EVIDENCE OF DIVINE CONCERN FOR THE GENTILES. Continued.
(1) The practice of offering sacrifices as atonement, typically foreshadowing the coming of Jesus, apparently was a human requirement from the very commencement of history. Abel, son of Adam and Eve, brought the "firstlings of his flock and the fat thereof" ( Genesis 4:4). The offering must have been killed, otherwise he could not have presented the fat, which was the best part. Moreover, we are told that "righteous Abel" (so designated by Jesus [ Matthew 23:35]) offered his sacrifice "by faith" ( Hebrews 11:4), which, in the overall context of this chapter, clearly is an objective faith grounded in revelation, and not that which was subjectively whimsical.
When Noah departed from the ark after the waters of the flood subsided, he built an altar and offered sacrifices of every clean animal and bird, and Jehovah was pleased with his offering ( Genesis 8:20-21). What compelled him to do such?
Melchizedek, whom Abraham encountered on his return from the rescue of his nephew, was designated by Moses as a "priest of God Most High" ( Genesis 14:18). A priest is an appointed servant who officiates in the offering of sacrifices to atone for sin. The modernistic notion that Melchizedek was merely the "high god" priest of the Canaanites (e.g., Baal), worshipped in pre-Israelite Jerusalem, is absurd (Hicks 1962, 343). God would hardly have chosen a Baal-worshipper to be a type, prophetically previewing his Son ( Hebrews 7:3). See also Leupold (1942, 463).
(2) The entire world population was one in kind prior to the call of Abraham. He was the first to be designated a Hebrew ( Genesis 14:13). The Hebrews were not set apart as a distinct people until the giving of the law of Moses ( Exodus 19:5-6; cf. Ephesians 2:14). It is wholly unrealistic not to recognize that God's love for the Gentiles was a part of the ancient world.
Genesis 9:18, Genesis 9:21-22, he didn't cover his father, yet went & told his brothers, notice they were all adults with wives, (not children) Genesis 7:7, I've heard some Pastors explain it was perversion. Also disrespectful, dishonoring his father & taking advantage of a bad situation. His brothers showed honor & respect: Genesis 9:23, Please read: Genesis 6:8-13, Notice Noah was Just & found favor with GOD, in a corrupt violent time. Doesn't say & his children were also "perfect or Just" Genesis 6:22, Genesis 7:1, Genesis 10, the lineage of Noah, Shem, Ham, & Japheth. Notice also in the curse he cursed "canaan" please see Genesis 10:18-19, they were the people of Sodom & Gomorrah. Was this perversion carried down? Even from before flood? Genesis 8:21,
Thanks for your thoughts on Gen 8:14 regarding the "covering" there's nothing to say as to why there was a covering except to say that it appears to be badgers skin where the word is found in other texts!
Hello Roni. Apart from what we read in Genesis chapters 6 to 8, we have little else to help us know exactly what this covering of the Ark was. We do know that in the construction of the Ark, God required a window be made ( Genesis 6:16) - maybe for light & ventilation. This window would have probably been at the highest point of the Ark (a cubit = < 2 ft), below the sloping roof line & may have extended the length & breadth of both sides of the Ark. It could be that a part of this window, or another aperture lower down, was covered (with some sort of skin or wood) that could be easily removed for Noah to view the outside world (or, sea levels). Just a few of my imaginations - others might have other thoughts.
God bless Jocelynne Can you see the forest for the tree's?God is everywhere you look you see!Every breath you take! The oxygen he did make.Every small grain of sand.All built with the masters loving hands.Keep knocking keep asking keep receiving.Never ever stop beleiving.Soon you will find.God is with his people all the time.He sent his holy spirit down.Hang on to him for your very own heavenly crown.o o o o o o o o o See you all on another page.o o o ooo oo Never let your love turn to rage.o o o o oo oo Offer what ever gifts you can! o o o o o o oo That is the masters plan. o o o o o o
Hello Edna. Maybe you're thinking of this saying: "You can't tell winter from summer except by the budding of the trees?"
This is actually a misquoted reference to Matthew 24:32, "Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh". In this verse, we read that Jesus was making a point about the time of His Return - to look for the signs around them, just as they would look for the sign of the first shoots, indicating the onset of Summer. So please don't wrack your brains on this, since what you have heard before is really a misquote of Jesus' Words & has nothing to do with the mixing up, or amalgamation of the seasons.
And I also think of Genesis 8:22 that may help you: "While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease." And this is God's Promise for the continuation of our seasons while the Earth exists in its present state.
Edna Gilbert, Yah has ordained everything for its proper time and season. Even the lack thereof of the seasons. Remember we had an ice age and also a Neoproterozoic age. The earth goes through cycles. In Yah's word he says that the seasons in general shall not come to an end.
Genesis 8:22 While the earth remains, seedtime and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, day and night, shall not cease."
Cont...
It is not accepted, in general, by those of the Reformed, Lutheran, or Anglican/Episcopalian denominations, as they are generally amillennialists.
Dispensational Premillennialism has gone through some revisions over the past 193 years. I suggest that people take the time to study this movement from both the angle of those who support it and those who give reasons they reject it as unbiblical. I have done this very thing over the past several months. Many people grew up with this teaching, so they do not question it. I understand that. For myself I was first introduced to it in my 20's and leaned towards that because I did not have resources to really study it at that time. But after about 10 years, I realized that this does not seem to fit Scripture, so I instead fellowshipped in churches that did not teach it.
And now, 20 years after that, I have taken the time to really investigate it. I wanted to know if this theory has any merit according to Scripture. So I have spent the past few months doing so. I read from both sides, pro and con with my Bible in hand. There are just too many aspects of this theory that I cannot support it. But each person should do their due diligence to test this theory with openness and prayerfulness. If I had this information 40 years ago, I would not have been taken in by the little I knew of it.
Country Jean, I am glad you brought this up. We should always be seekers of the truth in God's Word and be wary of any "new" teachings, revelations, etc. that become the "new ideas" for our faith. Just because something is new does not, in itself, make it incorrect, but there is long-standing consistent teachings across the church age that should also be examined before one takes the teaching of another. The witness of those in the church past are just as valid as any teachings of any person today. Those from the past had the Bible, just like us, to check their thinking against the revealed Word.
I agree with you. The pre-tribulation rapture theory that was thought up in the early 1800, especially by John. Nelson Darby, didn't square with the millennial reign of Christ for a 1000 if the church was raptured out before the Tribulation. So, Darby had to come up with the ideas of two plans of God for two groups of people, Jews and Gentiles. Thus we get the teaching that the Jews are separated from the Church. Then this teaching led to the creation of "Dispensations" in order to interpret Scripture in a way that keeps the Jews and Christians separate.
This teaching was first held and taught among the Plymouth Brethren, of which Darby was one of the founding members. This sect began Ireland and then moved to Plymouth, England where it began to grow in numbers. It has always been a very small sect where each fellowship was independent of others. It has been riddled with split after split after split since its inception with much dissension and angst between groups. Under Darby, one faction became a separatist group. And then this faction split again and again up to present day. The separatist faction is very strict about not mingling with those outside the group and have many cult-like practices.
Dispensational premillennialism with the teaching of the pre-tribulation rapture began to spread when Darby and other founders began to travel outside of the U.K. This theory took off in the U.S. with the printing of the Scofield Bible that included footnotes that reflected dispensational premillennialist teachings. Soon, this theory spread all over the U.S. in congregations outside of the Plymouth Brethren until it became the prevailing theory among Protestantism.
This theory came into existence in this setting. It is not a theory that has been a long-standing teaching of the church over the centuries. It differs from what is called "historical premillennialism" in significant ways.
Cont....
I, too, looked this up and read some on it. I agree with Chris, that it is not Noah's altar. God usually insisted on an altar being of natural unhewn materials. Gobekli Tepe ruins show that they are sculpted and hewn with ornate images carved on some stones.
The information I read think that the structures of Gobekli Tepe are perhaps the oldest man designed to date (estimated 9000-8000 or so B.C.). This may be pre-flood architecture, most likely a pagan temple of some kind, whether it is pre or post flood.It was first discovered over 100 years ago. It has taken a long time to excavate each level, and there are most likely more levels beneath what is now excavated.
Secondly, when placing both Mt. Ararat & the Gobekli Tepe on a map, I find that Ararat is at the very eastern edge of present day Turkey, bordering Iran & Armenia. Whereas, the Gobekli Tepe was located & examined six miles from Urfa at the southern end of Turkey, near the Syrian border. Without using a scale, my guess is that the distance would be approx. 420 miles between the two. So this also might prove that Noah would not have travelled this distance or more, with the absence of roads, to build an altar.
Do you have any compelling evidence to the contrary? Or maybe others have thoughts on this.
We're not given the name of Noah's wife in the Bible. However, many pieces of non-biblical literature & traditions from various religions, each give her a different name. Maybe one of them is correct, or more likely, none at all.
Genesis 9:22, honestly ask yourself would you go tell others? Or cover? Who showed their father honor? Genesis 9:23
Noah, "knew what his younger son had done to him." Genesis 9:24, it wasn't that he just saw.
There's additional information, to help readers understand, Genesis 9:18, Genesis 9:22, Genesis 9:25, Genesis 10:15, note Canaan, 1st recorded rape of a girl Genesis 33:18, Genesis 34:1-2, & Sodom & Gomorrah, Genesis 10:19, Genesis 13:13, Genesis 18:20, Genesis 18, Gen. 19,
Isaiah 3:9, Jeremiah 23:14, Ezekiel 16:49, Jude 1:7, it appears to point to a root of evil started with that person.
Hopefully this is helpful
Genesis 8:21-22, Gen. 9:9-17, therefore HE made a covenant of mercy. Yet HE also makes promises of giving an "account"
Genesis 9:5-6, Psalms 37, Isaiah 61:3, Romans 12:9, Hebrews 10:30, Jude 1:7,
It's like this Genesis: GOD gave dominion to man over the Earth, including sea. Gen. 1:28, It's a ' stewardship ' that all men will give an account for. Matthew 25:31-46, yet the Earth still belongs to GOD : 1Corinthains 10:26,
GOD gave Moses a set of "Best Laws" That if people obeyed, would cut down on suffering. Instead many have rebelliously rejected, mocked & ignored & refusal to enforce. Whose then to blame for suffering in consequence? Proverbs 3:27,
I think it amazing that GOD intervenes on our behalf so many times. Exodus 3:9, Psalms 12:5,
& ultimately gave us Salvation John 3:16-18, Ecclesiastes 5:8,
Hopefully this is helpful
One night I was street preaching with 5 others. They started Gossiping about Oral Roberts. We don't get a pass on persecuting The Brethern__like the unbelievers. I was NOT joining in this character assassination. I'm hanging back of the pack.
ANYONE doing great things for God, is going to become a Target for Satan. Look at Orals first days in ministry. People were being healed! The lame walked, the blind see, etc. He had a DREAM to build a great University to teach Christians faith and regular school curriculum. To meet and pray every morning; to teach evangelism. He built a replica of Noah's Ark, so people could see what it may have been like. It's beautiful. He raised money for the University. So people hated on him.
To continue with the story The Holy Spirit fell on me like an asteroid. He said. "Will you Now persecute and Mock a brother in Christ?!! Bite and Devour one of our own?"
I almost fell down in the street. They stared at me like deer. Then they repented, to God. It changed my life forever. If we suffer persecution (Oral Roberts) it means we are doing something right. It's not for me to say one word against what he spent the money on. That is Gods Territory.
I know not all of the students were practicing Christians. Their parents just sent them there to hopefully find Jesus, at some point in their education. Dreams.
Look what happened with Moses. He was gone 40 days, the people got bored, United in sinful desires and built a golden calf to be their God. The adults in on that revolt all died. Never saw the Promised Land. Those are good stories to chew on and get all the revelation out of them. All God truly asks of us is to be obedient and Trust Him.
This question is usually framed something like this: "Does the Bible say that in the last days, you will not be able to know the seasons except by the changing of the leaves?"
We had been asked this question many times and had done extensive research into its origin, but had never been able to find the source of the idea.
Recently, someone helped us find the origin of the concept. Evidently, it comes from the "3 Days of Darkness" prophecy of Padre Pio, a Roman Catholic priest. The exact quote appears to be, "You will know when that time is approaching because the seasons will change so the only way you will know the seasons is by the leaves on the trees." (END QUOTE)
I used to Believe that also until recently when I looked for it and could not find it in the Bible. I did find Genesis 8:22.
Part 6.
EVIDENCE OF DIVINE CONCERN FOR THE GENTILES. Continued.
(1) The practice of offering sacrifices as atonement, typically foreshadowing the coming of Jesus, apparently was a human requirement from the very commencement of history. Abel, son of Adam and Eve, brought the "firstlings of his flock and the fat thereof" ( Genesis 4:4). The offering must have been killed, otherwise he could not have presented the fat, which was the best part. Moreover, we are told that "righteous Abel" (so designated by Jesus [ Matthew 23:35]) offered his sacrifice "by faith" ( Hebrews 11:4), which, in the overall context of this chapter, clearly is an objective faith grounded in revelation, and not that which was subjectively whimsical.
When Noah departed from the ark after the waters of the flood subsided, he built an altar and offered sacrifices of every clean animal and bird, and Jehovah was pleased with his offering ( Genesis 8:20-21). What compelled him to do such?
Melchizedek, whom Abraham encountered on his return from the rescue of his nephew, was designated by Moses as a "priest of God Most High" ( Genesis 14:18). A priest is an appointed servant who officiates in the offering of sacrifices to atone for sin. The modernistic notion that Melchizedek was merely the "high god" priest of the Canaanites (e.g., Baal), worshipped in pre-Israelite Jerusalem, is absurd (Hicks 1962, 343). God would hardly have chosen a Baal-worshipper to be a type, prophetically previewing his Son ( Hebrews 7:3). See also Leupold (1942, 463).
(2) The entire world population was one in kind prior to the call of Abraham. He was the first to be designated a Hebrew ( Genesis 14:13). The Hebrews were not set apart as a distinct people until the giving of the law of Moses ( Exodus 19:5-6; cf. Ephesians 2:14). It is wholly unrealistic not to recognize that God's love for the Gentiles was a part of the ancient world.
See Part 7 of 7!
Genesis 9:18, Genesis 9:21-22, he didn't cover his father, yet went & told his brothers, notice they were all adults with wives, (not children) Genesis 7:7, I've heard some Pastors explain it was perversion. Also disrespectful, dishonoring his father & taking advantage of a bad situation. His brothers showed honor & respect: Genesis 9:23, Please read: Genesis 6:8-13, Notice Noah was Just & found favor with GOD, in a corrupt violent time. Doesn't say & his children were also "perfect or Just" Genesis 6:22, Genesis 7:1, Genesis 10, the lineage of Noah, Shem, Ham, & Japheth. Notice also in the curse he cursed "canaan" please see Genesis 10:18-19, they were the people of Sodom & Gomorrah. Was this perversion carried down? Even from before flood? Genesis 8:21,
Genesis 13:13, Genesis 18:16-, Genesis 19, Zephaniah 2:9, 2 Peter 2:5-9, Isaiah 3:9,
Please rely on the WORD of GOD, if you study & read it thoroughly, you'll be surprised what it clarifies.
Hopefully this is helpful in answering your questions.
and open the ark because if that would have happened it would not have bode well with noah's family. Remember
Noah was the only man righteous in Gods eyes and all others were wicked, some serious house cleaning so to speak.
I stick with the kjv other text I'm leery of unless it lines up biblically. I believe what was given as the construction of
the ark was all that was deemed necessary for explanation of event in Gods Word.
This is actually a misquoted reference to Matthew 24:32, "Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh". In this verse, we read that Jesus was making a point about the time of His Return - to look for the signs around them, just as they would look for the sign of the first shoots, indicating the onset of Summer. So please don't wrack your brains on this, since what you have heard before is really a misquote of Jesus' Words & has nothing to do with the mixing up, or amalgamation of the seasons.
And I also think of Genesis 8:22 that may help you: "While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease." And this is God's Promise for the continuation of our seasons while the Earth exists in its present state.
Genesis 8:22 While the earth remains, seedtime and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, day and night, shall not cease."
the firmament or expanse heaven. Again anything above earth is part of the expanse known as heaven,
verse examples Gen1:20, 14:19,19:24,22:11, 22:15, these are but a few examples of usage pertaining to
shamayim.
above earth biblically.
now is seated in the heavenlies, and so are believers spiritually in Gods eyes. Na man will ever know where
the expanse or heaven or heavenlies end.