Discuss Hebrews 10 Page 16

Part 2:

The second observation is your quote:

How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?"

Impossible, the Spirit could never allow for such an attitude or interpretation;

The first part is a scripture Romans 6:2, but your 2nd sentence is not in the Bible. It does not say that after Romans 6:2 and I don't believe a Christian sinning is impossible. Even Paul admits to sin and all Christians sin, so to claim Christians can't sin seems inconsistent with the Bible. Here are a few examples:

-Much of Jesus's teachings were to his existing followers, including many warnings to not go astray and to 'do things'. If all his Christian followers were already saved then why would Jesus ask them to keep doing things? Why change at all? Why even preach the gospel? Why have a Bible? Why try? I have never heard anyone who believes OSAS have a clear answer for this. If Christians don't need to avoid sin because they're saved regardless why would anything in the Bible even matter? It does matter, because the Bible clearly says obeying God is important. If you don't obey then you don't love Jesus and aren't following Jesus much.

-Most of Jesus's parables were about how most people will go to hell and how to avoid it. Jesus called people to put forth effort, to change, to take action. If taking action wasn't important or even related to salvation then why would Jesus keep saying it was like in Matthew 7:21? This verse would have to be reinterpreted, discredited, or thrown out to believe that obeying God is bad. Is God likely to say that obeying him is bad or is satan more likely to say that?

-Judas was a Christian and he betrayed Jesus and died a horrible death and likely went to hell.

-People are given freewill. We're not robots. The Bible already says all sin. Anyone claiming Christians can't sin is claiming we don't have freewill. Hebrews 10:26.

Hi Chris, just noticed your comment...

>If I seek to obey any of God's Laws, including the Sabbath, then I am judged by the Law & voluntarily exempt myself from salvation by Grace & not the Law.

Jesus disagrees with this in John 14:15. Jesus directly says if you love him you will keep his commandments (law). If you don't obey, then you don't love Jesus. If someone doesn't love or follow Jesus then they likely won't be invited to spend eternity with Him in heaven.

James 2 explains how grace and works work together. Its possible what you were trying to say is actually from James 2:10, but it doesn't say what you wrote. If you read on it clearly supports doing good works. No where in the Bible does it say we're NOT supposed to obey God or Jesus. It says the opposite throughout.

I watch out for anyone claiming good works are 'bad', as if following Jesus and his commands are bad. But somehow that not worrying about following Jesus's commands is 'ok' despite the exact words Jesus said that say the opposite. Ecclesiastes 12:13 Calling good bad sounds awfully familiar as if it comes a deceiver.

If you pursue Christ you are a Christian under grace, but following Him is an activity involving effort. It's not human effort that saves anyone, but it should be the natural fruit of loving Jesus. Many call themselves Christians and don't love Jesus, because they don't obey, and they will be surprised in the end just as Jesus predicted: Revelation 3:16 and Matthew 7:21 and Hebrews 10:26.

Hebrews 10:25

1 Corinthians 14:26

1 Thess. 5:11

Matthew 28:20

Deuteronomy 31:12-13

There's five reasons. It's much more powerful if the church is well attended for Corporate Prayer (in case you're sick or struggling in some area.)

We who believe to the saving of the souls shall be able to do this because of the Lord preparing the way before us as when we by faith accepted the truth of the price paid by His blood. We were chosen though unworthy so that in the time appointed we would fall back into faith and choose salvation of the soul.

Have I read the whole chapter? That doesn't deserve an answer. But let's look at Hebrews 10:26. First of all, the book was written to the Jews, Hebrew people. It was not written to the church. For a Jew or Hebrew person to turn away from Judaism and receive Christ meant severe persecution would follow. "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins." Receiving knowledge of the truth doesn't save a person. Did you ever notice in the gospels that whenever huge crowds would follow Jesus, and He would turn around and preach truth to them, they would leave? They received knowledge/ truth from Christ, but they turned away. "Oh, I'm going to suffer if I surrender to you? I'm out of here!"

Do you see what the writer is telling them? You received the truth about salvation, but if you turn back to Judaism because it is easier than surrendering to Christ because of persecution, there is no more sacrifice for your sin.

Hi Jesse, is your position that Christians never commit blasphemy of the holy spirit? or that they are incapable to? or they don't have the freewill to?

The Bible says even angels in heaven sinned, because they too have freewill in heaven. Humans have the same freewill, and Christians have the same freewill, do they not? Unfortunately some Christians have turned to evil and denounced faith in Jesus and committed blasphemy of the holy spirit, do you recognize this? Judas did that.

What is your reason for living life as a Christian or trying to be obedient to Jesus, if it has nothing to do with going to heaven?

Hebrews 10:26 You said doesn't refer to salvation, except it does. Have you read the whole chapter? How do you feel about James 2:17-26 or John 14:15, or Luke 12:9?

Many verses say Christians are to be obedient, but are you saying obedience or transforming isn't needed to enter heaven? Do you think there's no downside to Christians following the world of sin? Romans 12:2

Adam, let's look at Mark 3:28-30, the unpardonable sin. V.29, Jesus says, But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: He's not talking about Christians. Verse 30 says, Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit. Who are "they?" Not Christians. If you back up to Verse 22, you see who Jesus is giving the warning to. Blaspheming means to express rejection. When the Holy Spirit convicts a person of their sin, and their need of Christ, if they reject the testimony, their sins will not be forgiven. Christians receive the testimony, they don't reject it. Why use Hebrews 10:26? It has nothing to do with losing salvation. You're free to believe that you yourself can lose your own salvation, but you shouldn't be trying to convince those who are trusting in God's that they can lose theirs. Instead of looking for verses that seem to indicate you can lose your salvation, I would try finding the verses that indicate you can't!

Hello, the Bible refutes that with these 2 verses and more. A Christian who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit clearly isn't forgiven and won't go to heaven, because that's what Jesus said. He warned Christians about this in the Bible: Mark 3:28-30. Hebrews 10:26. How can anyone claim that a Christian who deliberately turns their back on God and permanently denounces Jesus is still saved? It seems that Jesus's own words would have to be ignored to come to such a conclusion. John 14:15. Why would Jesus tell his Christian followers to obey Him if they were already saved and if it made no difference if they obeyed or not? Why does this Matthew 7:21 reference say also to obey if you don't have to? Clearly these verses paint a different picture than the one satan is painting trying to convince Christians that its ok to disobey and sin all you want with no consequence. One of these beliefs is true and the other is false. Satan is the father of lies and may be behind one of them- which is more likely, that satan is deceiving Christians into being unnecessarily obedient, or that he's deceiving Christians into believing it's ok to be disobedient?

(continuing comment). How precious is our salvation then: this gift that we hang onto tenaciously in a life of godliness & love. Rom 5:20 "..But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound", i.e. there is not too great a sin that God's Grace cannot cover.

All Scripture pertaining to the Mercy of God granted to us through His Son, shows us that we don't have license to sin because of the Grace afforded us. Heb 10:26 speaks of those who were apparently saved, or at least, believed themselves to be, & rejected Christ forever, preferring the offerings of the world. Then there are those who firmly believe that once we are saved, our subsequent carelessness in life, doesn't void our salvation & eternal life. But Phil 2:12: "...work out your own salvation with fear & trembling"; i.e. now that you are saved, keep close tabs on your new life with great seriousness. 1 Pet 4:18 "and if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly & sinner appear"; i.e. we are saved by the "skin of our teeth". (see following comment).

I take it to mean that God's grace is not a l license to sin.

I would add: the readers of Hebrews were Messianic Jews, living in Jerusalem & were being encouraged during persecution. The key verse re: Rebeca's question, is verse 26: "If we sin wilfully...". In Greek, this is written in the present, active tense; i.e. "If we go on sinning, or making it a continual habit". We understand by the Spirit's Work in our salvation, that it is a complete & perfect Work; i.e. we are not only forgiven completely but for all time & given the Power to live our new life. We can still sin, but the Spirit within checks us to draw us to repentance. But if we reject His pleas & prefer our 'other' lifestyle, then the question: were we even saved at all? God is our Judge.

This is not talking about a believer losing their salvation. The writer is speaking to unsaved Jews and telling them that if people died under the wrath of God for just violating the law of Moses, they will suffer greater punishment if they reject the Son of God, or consider the blood of the New Covenant of Christ to be an unholy thing, or insult the Holy Spirit when He comes and ministers the gospel of grace to them. This passage is talking about Jews who were hearing the message of salvation, but did not take the next step of receiving Christ for salvation, because if they did, they would be persecuted by their fellow Jews, kicked out of the temple, and even ostracized by their own kin.

In Hebrews 10.29, the writer anticipates a "much sorer punishment." Some throughout history have interpreted this as a loss of salvation and an eternity in hell (lake of fire). Is this accurate? If so, how do we reconcile this with verses dealing with security? If not, what does the passage teach?

I needed to hear this. Thank you!

I disagree. Acts 2:38 we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit in baptism when repent of our sins. Of course we continue to sin. We're in the flesh. Sin is a transgression of the law. Lying, talking bad about someone, thinking bad thoughts about others. But we have the Holy Spirit that helps guide us and our consciences are pricked and we pray and ask Gods forgiveness for that sin and ask for prayers for spiritual strength to overcome that weakness in ourselves. It'snot easy living in such a corrupt society as ours is and keep our thoughts and minds as they should be. Narrow is the path that leads to salvation.

The reason he said their sin and iniquity i will remember no more. is beacuse he did away with the first (flesh) law by works to estblish the 2nd(spirit) law in your mind hearts. romans 12:2 do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewing of the mind gods children have stopped sinning is we have become a new creation. he came in the flesh and died and rose up in the spirit. and gods children our walking in the light and truth. we have entered into gods rest we stopped relying on our flesh dead works as something to earn eternal life we now trust in his son jesus said it is finished its already been done for us. we just live by faith faith in his son. amen

When Jesus warned the Disciples about Sin Adam they were not yet Born Again of God's Seed, 1Jn3:9 Pentecost had not come Jesus told them to wait untill The Holy Ghost Empowered them to share the Gospel. Like the Old Testerment Saints they had the Promise but not the reality like we do now. Gods Full Plan of Salvation confirms fully with Scripture we do not continue to Sin when we are Born Again.

Hebrews 10:25 as the manner of some is) What do you think the meaning of this, who are (the some)

To irratated, I humbly say that you have a misunderstanding about what happens at salvation. It is a circumcisem made without hands, a cutting away of the flesh.Our spirit does not sin but still dwells within our bodies which still has the sin nature. That's why the spirit wareth against the flesh. My body will one day return to dust for it is still condemned. But my spirit will go to God without any condemnation, praise God. One day I will have a new body that is perfect to go with my perfect spirit. Now don't get me wrong , God is working in us to bring our body into subjection because we still sin against God in the flesh. Even Paul struggled with sin.

Adam I do Respect you as a Man of God who Loves Him and is seeking to Help others but you don't know God's Full Plan of Salvation like many others. Paul said at one time that he was not fully Perfected and had Sinned but before he died he Confirmed he was. Im not fully Perfected and Im still Learning too but having asked for Gods Wisdom and Empowering by The Holy Spirit I have no doubt I will be.

Have you genuinely prayed to God for understanding? This is an important step some miss when seeking understanding of God's Word. Also satan likes to push false teachings and deceive Christians into believing that it's OK to sin and OK to do evil, because it's "not sin" to God. Jesus called Christians to avoid sin and be obedient- if it were impossible for Christians to sin then Jesus probably wouldn't have said so many times to stop sinning.

Like many others Adam including well known Evangelists Theologians and Pastors you dont know God's full Plan of Salvation for His Redeemed Children anda like them your focusing on only part of the Gospel. This is why you and them need to be humble and ask for Gods Wisdom and Empowering which none of us were Born with. Do you want me to share more Scripturs about how we are when were Born Again.

Praise the Lord Saints. Very good discussion. His grace is sufficient. All unrighteousness is sin. We are defaulted to sin nature . The born again man Spirit which we receive can not sin, because he comes from God. We endeavor to submit and be obedient to him. They that are led by him Spirit are the Sons of God. Fast, pray, forgive, love, and continue in faith. When you look upon a woman to lust after her you commit adultery in your heart, thank God for the blood. I'm not sinless, but I have learned to sin less by having respect to the Holy Word. I will keep striving to be totally controlled by the Holy Spirit. Amen

When we read with Gods Wisdom all the Scriptures in 1John3 it Confirms Gods Truth in 1John3:9 but dont use the Link given it wrongly shares John3 which it also does with the Link for 1John5:7 about The Trinity. Many other Sciptures in KJV also Confirm Gods Truth below... 1John3:9 Whosoever is Born of God doth Not Commit Sin for His Seed remaineth in him and he Cannot Sin because he is Born of God.

Actually, I asked a simple question about your claim and you didn't answer. It appears you cherrypicked a verse then ignored the other verses in the same chapter you quoted which says Christians can sin. If Christians can't sin then why does Jesus keep warning Christians to stop sinning and be obedient? People should read and follow the Bible carefully, because satan spreads false teachings.

What are you accepting as Truth Adam, its not me who tells us we cannot Sin when we are Born Again, God does and He said how we think is what we will do. This is why He also said to Reckon ourselves dead to Sin instead of saying we will Sin which many do. I have more Scriptuers Adam to confirm all I shared with you but you dont seem to understand the ones I have or even all of 1John3 not John3.

Do you believe that as a Christian you are incapable of sin or that God continually cleanses you from sin? Those are 2 different claims. If the first, I would ask are you really perfect and haven't made any mistakes in your life on Earth like Jesus? Romans 3:10. If the second, then have you read the rest of 1 John 3 because it clearly says Christians can sin in verses 4, 8, and 24 obeying is key.

Adam does God Tell us that we Continue to Sin when we are Born Again with His seed 1John3:9 Perfected in His Love with No Carnal Flesh and we have the Mind of Christ 1Cor2 All 1John3 and the other Scriptures I shared Confirm we dont Sin and we dont Trust in what we think or what we have been taught in error Jesus is our Only Spiritual Teacher we ask for His Wisdom and He leads us into all Truth.

God keeps His promises, do we. As mentioned in verse 29 you have a covenant with Jesus after you claim His Blood. Can we use Gods Word to do away with Gods Word in verse 26. As before this was tried by satan himself in the temptation of Christ. If we do any of the things given in the reprobate mind Romans chapter 1 we better believe in prayer, repentance and more Grace from God. Jesus will judge his people. I also believe chapter 12. Taken from experience