Discuss Hebrews 12 Page 3

Hi Marty. This Hebrews 12:14 verse is written to Christians (of mainly Jewish origin), to pursue not only peace with all men (not just Christians), and lest they think that a peaceable state of living is sufficient to gain God's pleasure in them, the writer says, "and holiness without which no man shall see the Lord".

So how to explain this to an unbeliever? An unbeliever may have some opinions, but usually 'holiness' is beyond their understanding. When sharing the Gospel with him, the whole focus must be on our sinfulness, our wretched hell-bound state before God & nothing we can ever do could make that great payment that would absolve us from all guilt & judgement. I'm sure you have shared the Gospel in this way, with supporting Scriptures, but he may ask, 'what then - what comes after I confess my sin & sinful state & receive God's forgiveness based on His Son's paying the price I couldn't pay?'

The next step for a new believer is to be baptized: a public testimony to both himself before God & to others that he has left his old sinful life & choosing to be bound to Jesus Christ through His death & resurrection, identifying only to him. He is then taught more & more from the Word, especially focussing on the Gift of the Holy Spirit which is given to all who are joined to Christ, sealing them as God's precious children. The Holy Spirit is not an inactive force or a feeling a believer must have, but He is the very presence of God within him that will accomplish all of God's Will in him & through him. And one of the very first things that will be preeminent in the heart & life of this believer, is the Holy Spirit's moving in Him to be Christ-like; i.e. dealing with sin, yearning God-wards, new hopes, new driven life - all demonstrating the sanctifying Work of the Spirit. 'Holiness' then, is the 'sanctified life': the separated life (accomplished by God & pursued by the believer). If he has no desire to pursue it, his salvation is spurious & eternal life absent.

Hiya Barbara...Lemme give ya my slant on the lake of fire...And Rev 20:15...One of my favorite scriptures...And Hebrews 12:29....Our God is a consuming fire...and Luke 12:49....I come to bring fire on the earth...Which is his baptism of the H.G. and fire...Which answers to the book of life that NEW covenant in his blood...Plz listen with your heart to Rev 20:15...If any man was not found written in the book of life ( that New Covenant in his blood) he was cast into the lake of fire...Which is that fire that Jesus said he wanted to bring on the earth...That new covenant in his blood...Remember our God is a consuming fire which is baptism of the H.G. and fire...

..... Malachi 3:2 kjv....Who shall abide the day of his coming...( 2 nd coming )...Who shall stand when he appears for he shall be as a REFINERS FIRE and fullers soap a cleasing fire...That FIRE that Jesus wants to bring to all the world...H.G. FIRE...He is gonna wash everyone of us with his spirit...Which is the H.g. the gift of God....I will pour out of my Spirit on all flesh..

.....Thus there will be no more death or hell...As our God is a consuming fire that is gonna consume satan and his angels...Which is mans carnal minds...Satans seat..reAnd that y we must be bornagain of that incorruptible seed which are the words of that NEW COVENANT that he wrote with his own blood....That book of life....Thats y the scrip. is saying if anyman was not found written in the book of life ( washed in the blood of the lamb ) ....He was cast into the lake of fire...Baptism of the H.G and fire...I will pour out of my spirit on ALL FLESH...Thats y Jesus was saying if I

be lifted up ( the blood ) I will draw ALL MEN unto me.

.....Thats y Jesus was saying Every sinner will have his part in the lake of fire...O thank you Jesus...Its God that is that LAKE OF FIRE....Thru baptism of the H.G AND FIRE...Remember Jesus rebuked James and John when they wanted to call down a literal fire on the samartians....Our God is th fire

Brother S Spencer:

Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christ (Christ is the word, so there shall arise false words), and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; in so much that, IF IT WERE POSSIBLE (but is not possible), they should deceive the very elect.

Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, WHO WERE ORDAINED TO THIS CONDEMNATION .....

God says he himself has caused this and brought it to pass.

Luke 22:31 ....Satan has desired to have you, THAT HE MAY SIFT YOU as wheat ....

Luke 22:32 But I WILL PRAY FOR YOU: that your faith (the faith of Christ) fail not .... IT'S CHRIST'S WORKS ....

Isaiah 28:21 ....that he may do HIS WORK, HIS STRANGE WORK; and bring TO PASS his act, HIS STRANGE ACT.

Isaiah 45:9 Woe unto him that striveth with his maker! Let the potsherds strive with the potsherds of the earth, Shall the clay say to him that fashioned it, What makest thou? OR THY WORK, He hath no hands?

Isaiah 48:10 Behold I have refined the, but not with silver, I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.

Matthew 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself; but endureth for awhile, and when tribulations and persecutions ariseth because of the WORD, by and by he is offended.

Christ had many disciples, but when the words became to hard for them they went the way of the world.

Matthew 13:23 ..... and false prophets, shall show great signs and wonders .....

Revelation .... and with him the false prophet ....were cast alive into the a lake of fire burning with BRIMSTONE

Isaiah 30:33 ....the breath of the Lord, like a stream of BRIMSTONE, doeth kindle it.

Isaiah 33:14 ...Who among us SHALL DWELL with the devouring fire ( Hebrews 12:29)? who amongst us SHALL DWELL with everlasting burning?

Isaiah 9:5 For every battle of the warrior is with confused noise and garments rolled in blood, but this (battle) shall be with burning and fuel of fire.

Isaiah 9:18 ...and the people shall be the fuel of the fire .....

God Bless YOU!

"I never knew you." ( Matthew 7:23). Such verses bring a shiver up our spines; when we understand the grace of God toward our souls if we are truly saved. Such an intimate knowledge can be described best on a human level with that of a husband and wife as they properly interact serving and growing together in their designated roles.

This type of relationship is best described as God loving us DESPITE who we are which is unlike seemingly endless Christian songs that somehow lead us to believe that He loves us no matter what we do or who we are. Ultimately; God did rescue us from sin and sacrificed His Son even though we were "enemies of God" (Phillipians 3:18 and many other references). But He foreknew us as being "conformed to the image of His Son" ( Romans 8:29 and again numerous other verses on that subject). He only "knows" us therefore if He can see His Son in us and we are truly "seated in heavenly places" ( Eph. 2:6). As I have said many times recently; He chastises all those He loves (see Proverbs 3:12; Hebrews 12:6-7). What many don't read is the following verse ( Heb. 12:8) that states in that we are illegitimate children (I will avoid the harsher term KJV has as I don't want to be flagged but it pays to read it). We are; in fact either children of God or of the Devil. That was made quite clear to the Pharisees ( John 8:44).

Such passages shouldn't be foreign to us as parents. If we truly love our own offspring we don't want them flailing about in this world of endless dangers; toils and snares without discipline and guidane although sadly many parents even in the church are sorely deficient in parenting skills.

In our personal lives; and I am speaking to myself here-we need to be aware of our weaknesses (with me it tends to be obsessiveness with hobbies; music etc) and learn to trust Him to guide us so that we can do all things for the glory of God. ( 1 Cor. 10:31). Such is the case with this site as well. It is not just for my ranting.

Further thoughts on God working things out for the good.

Scripture; of course is our guide to all truth ( 2 Tim. 3:16). The overarching theme of the Bible is God's big picture from the Creation to the downfall of man; to final restoration of both body and soul of mankind; as well as nature and in the end the whole universe. We certainly can look at God putting Satan on a string who puts men on a string. When our identity is in Christ as His adopted sons and daughters ( Romans 8:14-17 etc) then we are part of the whole army of God and hence we shall rule and reign with Christ someday ( 2 Tim. 2:12; and parts of Revelation). We are part of those who are of the great "cloud of witnesses" ( Hebrews 12:1 which summarizes Hebrews 11 the "heroes" of the faith. What is done to us in some sense is done to Christ Himself ( Matt. 25:40). Whoever destroys the Temple of God will himself be destroyed ( 1 Corinthians 3:17); and blessed are those saints who die in the Lord ( Psalm 115:16; again see Revelation)

Hence; death itself is to be something looked forward to ( Philippians 1:23). It is indeed the "last enemy that shall be destroyed" ( 1 Cor. 15:26). In the meantime; as Paul also stated "I die daily" ( 1 Cor. 15:31). In Christ we can appreciate the experience of a slow death of the outer man so that the inner man can reach glorification. Keep in mind that it is the health and vitality of our soul that counts for eternity; all men will be Resurrected but it is the TYPE of resurrection that is important.

None of this; certainly takes away from the wisdom that we should have in regard to avoiding problems when we are able and it doesn't contradict God's plans for us; or of course for troubles that result from our own sin ( James 1:14-15). May it be that it won't happen to us as believers but sadly that's what it takes for some ( 1 Cor. 11:30 for the extreme example of an early earthly demise in certain cases). Better saved through the fire than not at all ( 1 Cor 3:15

I also like Hebrew 13:2 I try to think about that one and Isaiah has a lot against the one would be 55-6 have a good day take care

I so enjoy reading the bible evert day

Perhaps Psalm 110:3 is the verse I wanted to quote. Obedience; as Jesus Himself said occurs because we love Him ( John 14:15).

Perhaps also the concept of doing things as James states is a result of faith WITH works; without such it is not true faith at all.

All works of course originate from our heart; and it's condition of being either good or evil (good fruit vs bad) as the input result in the output and the "reward" in it. So for the unregenerate the law may constrain sin; for instance; but as Psalm 119 illustrates we learn to LOVE the law even though it is something without His strength that we cannot obey. So it is the same God who is present and seen in some form who we all interact with. Hebrews 6:4 makes it evident that there is some experiential commonality as it were with all men; but the difference is having the Lord make residence in our hearts vs. being on the outside looking in as it were. Admittedly these are tough concepts and no matter how much intellectual understanding there is we have certain things hidden to us as to the full meaning ( Deut. 29:29). Our own worst enemy is; of course our own self and sin within. Saints of God understand this and therefore He "chastises all He loves" ( Hebrews 12:6). This differentiates Judas Iscariot from Peter in regard to the betrayal and the end result; for example. In the short term; it may be hard to discern the wheat from the tares but for many time will prove what fruit is present in their lives although sadly it takes until the end of someone's life for it to be clear (and that is almost always bad news). In the end we can only exhort; and rebuke and hopefully some will be retrieved from "out of the fire" as it were. Those who are His own learn to listen to the HARD verses in scripture and are offended when a lukewarm message is being offered or it is compromised in any way.

Hope some of this helps. Agape. Rich P

2Timothy 4:5, 1Peter 2:19,

Sometimes Hebrews 12:7

Matthew 24:13, Mark 13:13, James 5:11,

Hopefully these are encouraging to you, as your words & scriptures were to me, thank you

Revelation 4:5, Revelation 3, Revelation 5:6, Psalms 104:4, Hebrews 12:9, Hebrews 1:7,

Hebrews 1:13,14,

Hopefully these are helpful

Story of Job 1, was encouragement to me after loss of worldly riches. I was amazed after he suffered so much loss he (Job) was able to say: Job 1:21,

Also Proverbs 23:4,5, Hebrews 12:27, Psalms 12:5,

I hope these are helpful

I believe in eternal security of a believer, once saved always saved. (John5:24), and can never lose their salvation ( John 10: 27-29), believers who wilfully sin after salvation without repenting of that sin may come under the chastisement of the Lord ( Hebrews 12:4-8) but can never cease being saved, sons of God. Anyone believing otherwise never had salvation. Believing in eternal security is part of salvation.

Luke 16:31, Matthew 6:24, Hebrews 12:27-29, Matthew 6, noting 6:32-34, noting Luke 12:30,31,32,33,34,

Proverbs 4:5-27, James 1:5, Ecclesiastes 7:12, Proverbs 112:5,

Proverbs 14:9,

Proverbs 8,

Hopefully these are encouraging as you pray & helpful as you're seeking GOD. Thank you for trusting us with your prayer needs

Alex1939...The New Jerusalem is the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of God is gonna be with in us in the form of the H.G...The manchild which is gonna rule all nations... Hebrews 12:22...But you are come unto Mount Zion the city of the living God..( the kingdom ) That Heavenly Jerusalem...to a great host of angels...James not only will the New Jerusalem touch the New Earth its gonna be married to Jesus...I saw the New Jerusalem coming down from heaven prepared as a bride adorned for her husband..

.....Rev.11:15...The Kingdoms of this world are become the Kingdoms of our Lord and his Christ and he shall reign for ever and ever...James the New Earth and the New Heaven is simply our New hearts and New Spirits which is the H.G...The mystery of the Kingdom of God is Christ in us...And that Christ in us is the H.G....Abide in me and i in you...Isaiah says as the New Heaven and the New Earth shall remain so shall thy seed and name remain...Which is the H.G. that can only come in his name and via his seed...the living words...Remember Jesus said the Father will send the H.G. in my name And Jesus refers to the H.G. as the Kingdom.

James... Jesus said outta of the hearts of man proceeds all manner of evil..There was none righteousness no not one...Mankind is of the earth earthy...And its mans adamic nature ( the flesh ) which is the very enemy of God...And this is the earth that God wants to destroy...Which is his baptism of the H.G n fire as our God is a consuming fire...As Jesus said every man will have his part in the lake of FIRE and thats what we need is his baptism of the H.G. n Fire...But his fire is a life giving fire as he said i come not to destroy mens lives but to save mens lives...Our old adamic nature which is in rank with Satan is the richman that feels the flames destroying heat...Remember Jesus rebuked James and john when they wanted to call a literal fire down on the Samaritans...All we need is his baptism of the H.G. Giving us a New Heart n a New Spirit.

A warning.

Hebrews 12:15 serves as a warning about any "seed of bitterness" that arises within us.

There are two ways in which the enemy will work. As believers; the Spirit makes the truth of scripture clear to us so that we know clearly what certain sins are and how to conduct ourselves rightly; in contrast. The lie that so often is effective is to convince ourselves that since we are indeed saved by grace that we are free from being entangled once again with our sin nature; or perhaps better put we think because we know INTELLECTUALLY what to do and we are "covered" by the blood that there are no more dangers lurking inside. Satain is well aware of our weaknesses; and that if we are looking for outside threats from the enemy we may not be paying attention to our hearts where sin gives him the only access to affect us.

It is always good to remember that Satan is not a foe to trifle with. God's purposes were even used with Christ and the temptation in the desert for His total reliance on the Spirit as an example of how to live sinlessly and victoriously in our lives.

Jesus knew better than to try to get into a physical confrontation at that time with Satan; and didn't argue about the authority that was claimed over the earth when the devil tempted Him to worship him in return for all the glory of the earth. ( Matt. 4:1-11).

All of us; and I repeat ALL are to remain steadfast in prayer for one another as all go through like temptations as the Body of Christ while on this earth. Keeping this in mind helps us not to focus too much on our own issues. Satan loves to "divide and conquer" and one of his favorite tactics is to make us feel that there is nothing anyone can do to help us. Contrast that with the overdependent type; either immature in faith or not believing at all. Those individuals are only there for themselves. Part of our TRUST in God is that He will provide brothers or sisters in our time of need wherever we are. We are not alone.

Gerald,

Here is my continuation:

I have given my understanding of the human kind of persuasion, or human faith. It is persuading ourselves to believe.

The God kind of persuasion, or biblical faith describes what God's Spirit does in the life of the believer.

All of His ministry to me, everything that God's Spirit does in me, and everything that God's Spirit does when I get together with other believers for bible study, and I'm not saying that 100% of it is the Lord, but every time the Holy Spirit ministers to me, it all comes under the category of persuasion because He is someone I cannot see, and cannot audibly hear.

There is something persuading us about the truth, or persuading us about the things of Christ.

I have a personal definition of faith. Faith is the presence and activity of the Holy Spirit in a believer's life.

That's God's faith. That's the faith that's in the bible. In Galatians 5:22, it says but the fruit of the Spirit, (speaking of the Holy Spirit), is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, and faith.

Faith is a fruit of God's Spirit. Faith is a persuasion which God's Spirit produces, not man.

In Hebrews 12:2, we are told to run the race, looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith.

However, the word "our" as in our faith, it's not in the Greek text. It's the word "the." He is the author and the finisher of the faith.

If you have a copy of the old King James Bible, there are numerous phrases that talk about the faith of Christ.

The newer translations will take the phrase "the faith of Christ," and change it to faith "in" Christ, because the translators said it makes it sound like it's the Lord's faith. Well, duh! But they said it must be "in Christ." No, it's the faith of Christ!

I am going to need one more post. My apologies for being long winded!

Well said. The problems that come our way are not the "cross" Jesus is speaking to here. It is to live a life of obedience and submission to God and His agenda, as Jesus did, in my reflection. It may include persecution, rejection, and perhaps even martyrdom. But we have the Holy Spirit as our guarantee of salvation and full redemption.

In Hebrews 12:2-3, Paul says of Jesus, but for the joy set before Him (of resurrected life and the redemption of the saints) He endured the cross, bearing its shame until His work was completed and then, after He resurrected and ascended back to heaven, sat down at the right hand of the Father where He once again openly expresses the glory that He shares with the Father (which He prayed for at the Last Supper). He knew that His days of humbling Himself ( Phil. 2:5-11) would be past and He would be exalted once again.

So, for us, we set before us the joy of heaven and the glorification of our bodies at the resurrection when we endeavor to "take up our cross" daily for the glory of God and the completion of His will being done on earth as it is in heaven. The will of God done in heaven is complete and willing obedience to God as a gift of worship to Him. So, here on earth, we, too, offer the same gift to Him in worship, taking up our cross and following Jesus all the way, every day.

Ephesians 1:13-14 states that we are sealed withe Spirit unto the day of redemption. Notwithstanding this; it is not a mere verbal statement that assures salvation. Therefore to those TRULY born again; indeed they are saved in a "once saved always saved" way. We all have as evidence of genuine faith a need to REPENT (turn from sin); but God actually GIVES us the desire to repent through the GIFT of repentance ( Acts 5:31; etal). It is more doctrinally sound to say that GOD elects or chooses those who will become adopted sons or inherited into the Kingdom ( Colossians 1:13; Romans 8:22-23). We must confess with our mouths; of course but that comes along with belief in the heart ( Romans 10:9). Those who are saved because they LOVE God they keep His commandments ( John 14:15). Those who are saved will bear fruit ( John 15:2). The surrounding scriptures and parable of the sower show that a person must pass through the temptations of the world and be proven to be true sons ( Hebrews 12:8). Those who are true believers are chastised as He does with all those He loves. The fruit of the Spirit eventually manifests; and God continues to prune (or sanctify) us to produce MORE fruit. The others fall away eventually to the world; flesh and devil; only God can save us from ourselves and these forces which are blinding those who don't know the Lord ( 2 Cor. 4:4).

The 10 Commandments therefore are still in force today; but we are unable to follow with the MORE stringent matters of the heart which only again comes from the Spirit. Without this there is an outward obedience only. The only thing which has changed is the Sabbath Day; and I would say that Matthew 12:8 answers this by placing Sunday as the day of rest. This is also the only command that was peculiar to the nation of Israel; rather than universal law which clearly as shown with John the Baptist in matters of divorce holding for pagans as well. Other ceremonial rules changed with Peter's vision in Acts 10.

Hi Rhonda. You may referring to the word, 'witnesses' mentioned in Hebrews 12:1. If so, these witnesses are those listed in Hebrews chapter 11, all who were commended & accepted because of their faith.

And I'm sure there are many many more in Heaven who are there (including our loved ones) because of their faith in Jesus, as the merits of the Cross also applied to those who trusted God yet never hearing of Jesus in their earthly lives.

1Corinthians 13:12, yes, it says ._. "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

There seems to be scriptures that sort of suggest that it's possible. John 11, Hebrews 12:1, following from Hebrews 11, Mark 9:2-4, Matthew 17:1-3, 1Samuel 28:15-19,

We will all give account, Matthew 25:31-46, Romans 14:12, Philippians 2:1-16, Deuteronomy 5:11, Exodus 20:7, Mark 9:39, Matthew 12:31, in context Matthew 12.

God is not The God of the dead but of the living: Matthew 22:32, Psalms 139, John 3:16, hopefully these help answer your questions

Psalm 36.

Verse 1 is admittedly a trickly passage the way it is written; sounding like the transgression of the wicked is speaking to a godly man (David) and stating that there is no fear of God before his eyes. Having seen commentaries on this subject not finding satisfactory cross references; it would seem it is stating that within my (David's) heart is testifying that the state of transgression of the wicked is due to their lack of fear of God. The next several verses talk about self gratiation (flattery-verse 2); verbal caustic language (v. 3); and plotting in his bed what he will do next (verse 4). There is a sober warning of those who become reprobate as verse 3 where apparently there was some wise or good standard for those individual(s) previously. Conversations and words seem to be a major red flag there.

Securing the mercy of God is largely indicated by the TRUST mentioned in verse 7. David asks for the "foot of pride" and "hand of the wicked" to "remove me". The concern probably is those who will cause us to find an excuse to fall away. The doom of the wicked once again is sealed in verse 12.

We do well to heed to the admonitions in James as to not letting there be a root of bitterness in us. (also see Hebrews 12:15). The love of money is the root of all evil ( 1 Tim. 6:10). We are wise to be cautious not to be ensnared by those things which plunge men into perdition which is in the verse immediately before ( 1 Tim. 6:9). We need to watch the tongue and control it as James admonishes as well ( James 3:1-12).

Hi Mr. Bowman, you're asking about 2Thessalonians 2:3, it starts with 2Thessalonians 2:1-2, the coming of Lord,._. Please notice this is the 2nd letter to the Thessalonians, following up on the discussion in 1Thessalonians 4:13-18, also following the words of Jesus.

It seems the "great falling away" may be as Jesus explained with the seed, parable. When they face trouble, not rooted in good soil; Please look at Matthew 13:6,20,21, notice Jesus says we will go through "the great tribulation" Matthew 24:21,22,29, Matthew 24:30, in context please read both full chapters, also please look at : Revelation 6:9-11, if Jesus says endure to the end, Matthew 24:13, 2Peter 3:3-14, 1Peter 5:2-11, Hebrews 12:23-29, Hebrews 10:35-39, Colossians 1:23,

1Peter 1:2-9, Jude 1:24,

Hopefully this is helpful

Praise the LORD for all the comforting words of wisdom declared and shared on this forum. It is good to know that brethren exist and are active in every avenue of worship and praise unto the LORD JESUS CHRIST. It is like traveling- no matter where I go I can be assured there will be body of believers singing the praises of the LORD; preaching the Word of GOD; and I will comforted and allowed to be amongst them.

Let us extend our faith and knowledge of the LORD by praying and calling on GOD for HIS hand upon our current leadership in Washington. Our trust in Scripture and obedience to the same will bring about change as GOD, the LORD JESUS CHRIST see best for our times. May we lay aside every weight, especially the sin before us, and "let us run with patience the race that is set before us. Looking unto JESUS the author and finisher of our faith;..." Hebrews 12: 1b, 2a

So much before us to pray for and be active in; there is much we can do in HIS name. Let us start from the beginning: Romans 10: 9, 10; Ephesians 2: 8-10; Matthew 28: 18-20; 2 Chronicles 7:14, 15; 2 Peter 3:9; 1 Timothy 2: 1-5; 2 Peter 1: 1-8. Many more passages, I'm sure you can add to the list, Amen!

GOD bless everyone on this forum, and may the LORD GOD meet all your needs. "Who shall separate us from the love of CHRIST? ... Nay, in all things we are more than conquerors through HIM that loved us." Romans 8: 35, 37, 38, 39

The LORD bless you, and keep you! The LORD to make HIS face to shine on you, and be gracious to you. The LORD to lift HIS countenance upon you, and give you peace. Numbers 6: 24-26

Don't forget to vote on November!

October 11, 2022

Ddjot,

Chris gave a good answer, I'd like to add to the discussion. Please note the verse right before, Jeremiah 29:11, Jeremiah 29:10, sometimes we want GOD to change our situations "right now", sometimes HE does, but I believe this promise, is for GOD's people when we need the encouragement for the troubled times & endurance in longer seasons. Notice in Daniel, he & his companions had went through many difficult moments but GOD in miraculous ways delivered them, protected them & even encouraged them. I believe it was after Daniel was thrown in the lions den that he fasted & humbly prayed about the promise made in Jeremiah 29:10,11, Daniel 9:1,2,3, still waiting on that promise of 70 years,

note Daniel 6:1,2,3, (for why I place the timing, seemingly after lions den) the noted scriptures referring to about Daniel's encouragement, & companions, some say "the greater the trial the greater the miraculous": Daniel 1:8,9,17, Daniel 2:12,13,17,23 Daniel 3:12-27, Daniel 4:19,24,25, Daniel 5, Daniel 6:7,10,16,22,28, Daniel 9:23, Daniel 10:11,12,18, Daniel 11:1,

Luke 10:19, there are moments that are painful but when we look at Salvation, the pruning, witness to strengthen the Body of Believers, then we realize it didn't "hurt us".

I hope these scriptures give you strength & hope= 1Peter 4:12,13, 2Corinthians 1:3-7, John 15:1-2, 1Corinthians 4:5, 2Corinthians 3:2, Zechariah 13:9, Malachi 3:3, 2Timothy 2:10, Psalms 30:5,

In correction= Isaiah 48:10,11, Malachi 3:2, Proverbs 3:11-35, Hebrews 12:7, 2Thessalonians 1:4,

Endure even undue trials= 2Timothy 2:3, 2Timothy 4:5, remember Timothy was with Paul in ministry during persecution. 1Peter 2:19, Mark 13:13, James 5:10,11,

James 5:13-18, 2Chronicles 7:14,

Hopefully these are helpful & encouraging

Amen Bro. PROPHECY...GBU....You are so right PROPHECY they don't realize that the wrath of God is the LOVE OF GOD.... Hebrews 12:6...Whom the Lord Loveth he Chastens.....And scourged every son whom he receiveth.. Hebrews 12:6....If ye be without Chastisment then are you bastards and not sons....Now are we the sons of God....Even in the natural we chastise our kids simply b/c we love them...Now no Chastening for the present seems to be joyous but grievous... Hebrews 12:22 But ye are come unto mount ZION THE CITY OF THE LIVING GOD, That HEAVENLY JERUSALEM..To huge host of Angels....PROPHECY GBU MY BRO.

The word Cloud used by Paul as Crowd; as in a crowd of witnessess in Hebrews 12:1 just as he does in 1 Thessalonians 4:17

1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. 4Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

Jesse. I tell this to myself and other believers constantly on the cross our

Brother said forgive them father for they know not what they do and another

One in Hebrews 12:2 I can't begin to comprehend the who for the joy a spiritual

Quality that was set before Him endured the cross dispising the shame this verse

Is incredible. These things apply to all who are endeavoring to Agapeo so that being said I will see you here there or in the air brother.

Sister Theresa:

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto man once to DIE; but after this the judgement.

This death happens by THE COMING OF THE LORD, HIM in YOU, his body.

This SECOND COMING cannot be seen: it comes like a thief in the night.

Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was ONCE OFFERED (first coming of Christ) to bear the sins of many; and to them who LOOK for him shall he appear a SECOND TIME (second coming CHRIST as the HOLY GHOST) without sin, UNTO SALVATION.

Hebrews 12:29 For our God is a consuming FIRE.

Revelation 9:18 By these was the THIRD PART of man KILLED (first death, not literal), by the FIRE, and the SMOKE, and the BRIMSTONE, which ISSUED OUT OF THEIR MOUTH.

All of us, THE DECEIVED, are KILLED, destroyed, by GOD'S WORD.

All that is LEFT is TRUTH and LIFE.

John 14:6 ....I AM TRUTH .....I AM LIFE ....

Ezekiel 5:2 Thou shall BURN WITH FIRE a THIRD PART .....

Zechariah 13:9 And I will bring the THIRD PART through the FIRE ...

Zechariah 13:8 And it SHALL COME TO PASS, that in all the land, TWO PARTS shall be cut off and DIE (literal, go to the grave); but the THIRD PART shall BE LEFT (never see death) therein.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we (that died the first death, that came to the truth of Christ's resurrection) SHALL REMAIN (having become ONE WITH TRUTH: CHRIST) and be CAUGHT UP together with THEM (the Old Testament Saints, resurrected with Christ) in the clouds (symbolic of God's Temple, the cloud was always over the tabernacle of the Old Covenant), to meet the Lord on the air, so shall we ever be (in the presence) with the Lord (the IMAGE OF CHRIST).

Zechariah 12:7 And the Lord shall save the tents of Judah FIRST (the Old Testament Saints; resurrected with Christ), that the GLORY of the HOUSE OF DAVID (those born again of TRUTH) and the glory of the house of Jerusalem (same people) do not magnify themselves against the house of Judah.

Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord God will DO NOTHING, but he revealeth his SECRET to his servants the Prophets.

Amen Brother D W L.

God bless you.

Predestination: Concluding thoughts

Lord willing; this commentary will be helpful for those who really haven't seen the repeated themes of the unity of the Godhead; and the predetermined "elect" group who are chosen for Christ to be revealed; and who therefore will respond to show saving faith. A major point that I tried to bring up in earlier chapters was that there is always a corresponding interaction going both ways; so that confession of faith and all of man's actions prompted by the Spirit are simultaneous actions. KNOWING us according to Matthew 7:23 is part of saving faith; hence the absence indicates we are tares. Our soul testifies with His Spirit ( Romans 8:16) that we are God's children.

None of the contradicts the necessity of confessing with our mouths and believing in our hearts that Christ is Lord ( Romans 10:9). We are asked to repent; but it is He who grants the gift of repentance ( Romans 2:4) and this also has a group of people in mind (the Jews as a whole who come to faith) in Acts 5:31 and the Gentiles in Acts 11:18. We still our to test ourselves to see if we are in the faith ( 2 Cor. 13:5-6). All good fruits therefore come from the source of God; and are evidences of saving faith ( Matt. 7:17). We need to remember that God chastises all He loves ( Hebrews 12:6 etal); and therefore He prunes back so even more fruit is produced ( John 15:1-2). He is doing the work therefore; our WORKS are merely the external evidence that indeed He is working from the inside out. These have been prepared for us from before the foundation of the world ( Eph. 2:10).

The other doctrines such as God's sovereignty; our totally depraved nature; and perseverance of the saints are covered in many scriptures and can be covered in other studies. As far as free will is concerned; God accomplishes His purposes through the vicissitudes of man; and the wiles of Satan and all his minions. To not submit to our Creator is folly ( Psalm 14:1; Psalm 2:2; Rev. 19)