Discuss Hebrews 12 Page 6

Jesus suffered and died on the cross for our salvation, if I may suggest that you read Hebrews chapter 10 and it explains the necessity of Jesus dying on the cross.

John 19:19, Matthew 27:40-42, Mark 15:30-32, 1 Corinthians 1:18, Hebrews 12:2

Proverbs 13:24, Proverbs 22:6, Colossians 3:21,

Proverbs 22:15, Proverbs 29:15, Proverbs 23:13, Ephesians 6:4,

It's been quoted "spare the rod spoil the child" it's about discipline, correcting a child. Hebrews 12:8, Hebrews 12:9, Hebrews 8,

Isaiah 53:5,

Hopefully these are helpful

There are 27 scriptures that say it was a cross. Only 2 say Pole

1 Corinthians 1:18

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Galatians 5:11

And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.

Galatians 6:14

But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Ephesians 2:16

And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Philippians 2:8

And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Philippians 3:18

(For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:

Colossians 1:20

And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Colossians 2:14

Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Hebrews 12:2

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

*Next 2 verses referring to Jesus

Numbers 21:8

And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a POLE: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, SHALL LIVE.

Numbers 21:9

And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, HE LIVED.

Hey Charles,

Thank you, may your lamp be full, and your talents be more than you were given. Many find teachers with pleasing words, feel good for a day, back in the world after walking out the door, and not truly repenting, thinking everything is hunky-dory. I don't believe sin goes dormant, there is a battle every day between the flesh and the Spirit in our conscience/spirit.

It is the Holy Spirit's work that empowers us to do our purpose. Like Paul said in Romans 7:18-19 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.

Hebrews 12:1-3 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

God bless,

RLW

Hi Liz.

Good Question. I believe love is a fruit of the spirit. When the spirit works in the life of a believer it's God expressing himself through the believer. It is not anything you manifest, It's an reaction. However sometimes we grieve the spirit by obeying the flesh.

Now God doesn't compromise his other attributes when displaying love. such as chastening, Judging or his Holiness. For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. Hebrews 12:6.

And I believe that also his passed on to a mature Christian.

For instance do you express the truth when another believer is in a fault to restore them or do you compromise the truth and bypass them altogether.

Example: Galatians 6:1.

Speaking truth to one another is a way of expressing Gods love, But is sometimes not received very well.

God bless.

Hi Adrian. I believe that is correct in so far as, that sickness, pain & suffering come to all of us without exception, because we are a spiritually & morally fallen race. The moment we are born into the world with sin's nature having taken root & hold upon us, sin's course ultimately leads to death. And in that process of a gradual weakening & failing of our body's organs, we prove that in spite of any spiritual re-birth or discipline to holy living, ultimately the sin that grips our body will have the last word. I know that all this sounds very morbid but all of us are subject to the same end: that which is the outcome of sin ( Romans 6:23; James 1:15; Romans 5:12).

Yet, you might be thinking of a person's particular suffering or sickness (e.g. Job - which was a specific instance of God's Permission given to Satan to test Job's character & faithfulness; & maybe God stills allows this today- I can't tell). Yet we also know that God does discipline His child who wilfully continues in sin, not receiving correction ( Hebrews 12:5-11; Revelation 3:19; 1 Corinthians 11:32; Psalm 94:12,13). But His discipline comes in various ways & degrees of severity, as a father would mete out to his erring child. So the bottom line could be expressed as: if we were NOT sinners, living in all purity & holiness before God, there would be no physical sickness coming upon us, nor would there be need for any correction or discipline by God or man. But we should be cautious in trying to interpret every sickness or hardship being the result of some spiritual or moral failing - not always, but sometimes - each one will know in his heart from whence this comes.

Son's of GOD = 1 John 4:15, Galatians 4:7, 1 John 5:10, Ezra 3:2, Hebrews 12:7, Revelation 21:7, 1 Timothy 1:2, 1 Corinthians 6:2-3,

Jesus CHRIST the MESSIAH referred to the most as Son of GOD. Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, Romans, Hebrews, etc.

Luke 3:38,

* Romans 8:14, * Hebrews 1:13-14,

I understand "Son's of GOD presented themselves before GOD" to mean= they prayed notice Job 1:5, "offered burnt offerings" then vrs. 6._._._ the accuser came, Revelation 12:10,

Genesis 4:26, Luke 3:38,

Exodus 34:2, Leviticus 14:11, Leviticus 16:28, 1 Samuel 10:19, Daniel 9:18, Luke 2:22, Romans 12:1, Jude 1:24-25,

Hi Alex N; glad to hear from you again, this subject is one of great depth concerning the kingdom, perhaps I understand this doctrine differently than you do as the first dispensation and manifestation of the kingdom has happened already. When we were born again we enter the kingdom John 3:5 The Apostle Paul taught we were translated from darkness into the kingdom of Christ, which I believe refers unto our spirit alone in Colossians 1:13 Again we already received the kingdom in Hebrews 12:28 These truths cannot be denied, Yet we look forward to the millennial kingdom of God as in Revelation 20:4 knowing this kingdom of Christ will come as you mentioned in Revelation 12:10 which indicates the middle of the seven year tribulation. Now we differ as I believe the man child are the sons of God, Christians who are mature, being led by the Holy Ghost, as in Romans 8:14 I cannot accept the man child to be the Holy Ghost, for the man child is raptured in Rev. 12:5-6 in the middle of the tribulation, yet the bible affirms constantly the Holy Ghost is here on earth working in the 144,000 the two witnesses, and all children of God during the tribulation, and such like. I do not interpret the woman as humanity, like you do, as the woman to me is the church of Jesus Christ as in Rev. 12:17 she has the testimony of Christ and keeps commandments, Israel does not have these things, and the world does not have these things either, only the church can have these things. Remember the woman is clothed with the sun, a metaphor for the gospel, the moon under her feet, meaning to have power over Satan and all fallen angels, which only the church has in the name of Jesus Christ. You are right to call the city New Jerusalem the kingdom of heaven, as this kingdom of God comes after the millennial kingdom of Christ, yet it is the final manifestation of the kingdom of heaven. I will ask therefore, have you taken into account, not all Christians will make it into the kingdom. Mat.7:21

It's simple to get saved, but the process of sanctification is hard. Before I elaborate, I assume you're referring how a sodomite can get saved; "gay" biblically means cheerful, "sodomy/sodomite" means those who practice same sex fornication.

You meet God in his own terms:

1.) You have to be in a broken and contrite state.

Psalms 51:17 "The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise."

2.) You call upon Jesus to save you.

Romans 10:13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

3.) Put your faith in the Lord. (Take note that the eunuch called upon the Lord, he didn't just believe his way to salvation)

Acts 8:37 "And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."

If you followed these steps, then you are saved; you will have assurance of your salvation as it'll come through chastening, if you don't have any chastening in your life, then you're not saved.

Hebrews 12:7

"If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?"

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If you're still confused, ask Jesus to show you the way to salvation, he'll give you wisdom.

James 1:5 "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him."

John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

Hi Gloria. I believe this verse in Hebrews 12:1, describes "weight" as any encumbrance or burden that would come in the way of us finishing the race before us. Jesus is our goal, not only to be with Him but to live for Him in the life He has given us. He is the reason for our salvation & the sure hope we now have for time & eternity. If He means that much to His followers, then His followers must continually examine themselves (any sins & any hindrances), deal with them & live before Him in all good conscience. Otherwise, we might just be ashamed at His Coming - when His Coming is unexpected.

Karen Sue Your correct Jesus Christ suffered once for all time for mans sin, in fact in the old testament

it say he was beaten more than any man that ever lived so no matter what movie you've seen as an example

when he was put on the cross you did not want to look upon Him and I believe without almost getting

physically I'll. The enemy did everything he could to make Jesus sin or break fellowship and he never did.

In fact in hebrews 12:2 Who for the joy that was set before Him he knew the goal and did it ALL OUT OF THE

LOVE OF GOD WORKING IN CHRIST. When born again God sees us as His children because we endeavor to

believe and walk honestly before Him we are no longer fighting with out father we work on walking with Him

in harmony and alignment on His word and to boot all sin payed in full once and for all. That's the grace that

we do not want to buck against because that's like kicking God and His son in the face saying I don't care, then

we lose and so does God because he wants us to walk and be witnesses and more than conquerors through

His Son who Loved us and gave Himself for us.

Hi Kathy,

I would like to add to the truth Cait has given referencing Hebrews 12:18-23. For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,

And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:

(For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:

And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake:)

BUT YE ARE COME UNTO MOUNT SION, AND UNTO THE CITY OF THE LIVING GOD, THE ( HEAVENLY JERUSALEM, ) and to an innumerable company of angels,

To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Notice the contrast. In Exodus 19:10-12. THE LORD TELL MOSES TO SANCTIFY THE PEOPLE AND TELL THEM TO WASH THERE CLOTHES, and bring them the third day, and they still couldn't touch the border of the law given mountain!!

In the Heavenly Jerusalem God don't wash garments, he gives new ones.

Zechariah 2:10-13.

Zechariah 3:1-9.

Ephesians 4:20-24.

Colossians 3:9-10.

Parallel-

Galatians 4:21-26. Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

WHICH THINGS ARE AN ALLEGORY: FOR THESE ARE THE TWO COVENANTS; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

BUT JERUSALEM WHICH IS ABOVE IS FREE, WHICH IS THE MOTHER OF US ALL.

Romans 8:3-4.

A general area to study in.

Hopefully someone will add.

God bless.

I have taken that to be wisdom especially when we think to highly of someone & they fall into sin. Putting too much trust in man, woman, their position or title, for example. This was advice maybe through experience.

Proverbs 6:30, Proverbs 6:23-26,

Hopefully these scriptures are also helpful in reference

Genesis 25:34, Hebrews 12:16, 1Samuel 25:10-38,

It is also commanded

Leviticus 19:15, Proverbs 24:23, James 1:1-10, Colossians 3:25, Ephesians 6:9, Job 32:21, 2 Chronicles 19:7, Deuteronomy 16:19,

Example Luke 20:21, Matthew 22:16, even when trying to trap Jesus they testified that HE wasn't a "respecter of persons"

Jesus was tested by this Luke 4:2-4,

Is it also coincidence that it was a piece of bread that was given before betrayal by Jesus? John 13:18,21-27, John 6:33,

There have been several moments that were very difficult for me. Just recently I realized the years I studied scripture being confined mostly to bed after injuries: GOD ALMIGHTY is using it today, in being able to point others to scripture, without that difficult moment._..? .. would I have studied even half as much?. John 14:26, 2 Corinthians 4:17-18,

The losses I've suffered, has given me strength years before these recent trials. GOD had me prepared to face many difficulties. Through GOD's grace, taught me deeper trust in him & deeper realization of these scriptures. Hebrews 12:27-29, 2 Corinthians 1:3-7,

1 John 4:18,

Thank you for your blessing.

Hopefully these encourage you

Genesis 36:1, Hebrews 11:20, Hebrews 12:14-17,

Important scriptures on why= Hebrews 12:16

Obadiah 1:1-21,

Obadiah 1:10,11,12,13,14

Hopefully these are helpful in your discussion & understanding.

Page 1.

Brother Dan. I'm glad that you found the time to go through that article. To that end & in light of your comments, I would add or clarify:

a. Your quote of Page 4 of Ironside's article: God our Father & Jesus our Judge. I understand that God deals with His children as just that - His children, as those adopted into His family through His Son. We can never be judged again for our sins - we faced judgement when we came to the Cross & gazed upon the crucified One, trusting Him to bear our sins & reconcile us to God. Now judgement remains for those who reject the offer of salvation. As sons, He will chastise us (even as a good father would - Hebrews 12:5-11), whether that gentle warning or more severe dealing with, that we may realize our error & come back into sweet fellowship. The only time we see Jesus as our Judge, is at His Judgement Seat (called, Bema) where rewards are given as per our earthly Christian conduct ( 2 Corinthians 5:10; cf 1 Corinthians 3:12-15) when the full worth of our Christian lives will pass by us. The judgement of the unsaved is certain ( Revelation 20:11-15) where even the good that they have done cannot save them.

Amen David, a goal to look forward to indeed.

Just as Jesus stedfastly set His face to go to Jerusalem ( Luke 9:51), and from that time forward, nothing could get Him off track, so are we to run the race set before us with our eyes fixed on Jesus. The word stedfastly means a fixed established position. This is probably where Paul got his ministry. In Philippians, when he strives for the high calling in Christ Jesus, he has got one thing in mind, one direction in where he heads, and that is the mission for which Christ has sent him. Just as Jesus had a fixed established position towards Jerusalem where nothing was going to stop Him, we are to also set our face toward Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith ( Hebrews 12:2).

Brother Ronald, Revelation is signified. The lake of fire REPRESENTS SOMETHING.

The first and death death REPRESENTS SOMETHING.

Since there is a second death, there has to also be a first death.

The chosen take part in the first death ( John 12:25) while they still have breath in their nostrils.

In Revelation 9:18 The third are killed (they die for Christ's life as Christ died to give you his life) by fire and brimstone. IN CHRIST (also Revelation 8)

Hebrews 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

Ezekiel 5:2-4 This is the same third described in Revelation 9:18 and Zechariah 13:9

Revelation 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity, He that killeth (teaches truth) with the sword (the word) must also be killed with the sword (the word).

You are in the lake of fire, being purified and destroyed at the same time.

God Bless You!

Hello James Carlson, that's powerful. People suffer much from lies & much from believing lies. Your comment, speaks deeper into devastating "news" heard, effects from it. With wisdom you were shown this, insightful. I think it was a revelation to you personally & others that have been devastated by lies. The toll it can take on a person. However I agree with Chris, I think I would go further to say I think many loving parents would immediately run to their children to make sure the news was correct, to care for them even in death, cover them & give a proper burial, ect. Job was beyond average as a Parent in that: Job 1:5. He was very concerned for them to be right with GOD, that he would make sacrifice on their behalf. Like Earl, Gi Gi, mentioned, pointing to GOD's bigger picture of GOD's atonement for us through Jesus. That's probably why Job is sometimes called prophetic book. Interesting I hadn't seen that beforehand. Gi Gi, & Sacha have the most perfect point that it is most significant whoes report we believe, in that GOD says nothing shall harm you by any means. Luke 10:19. Knowing all things will work together for good._.._ Romans 8:28-29, Even in disaster & disastrous moments when we believe GOD, HIS WORD, HIS report we will be much better off in every way. Hebrews 12:26-29, we should not be as; Luke 21:26

Didn't read all comments, hopefully this is encouraging. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts & intellectual insight.

Mathew 19.28 Luke 22.30

THRONES

Palms 122 .5. Thrones

Revelation 20.4

And I saw THRONES , and they that say upon them , and judgement was given unto them

Brother Dan, the throne of God is a LITERAL PHYSICAL place, CHRIST IN YOU. As Christ is the throne of his Father, because the Father indwells Christ, Christ indwells you, making you the THRONE of the Father, Son and you.

Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh, I will grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Isaiah 66:1 Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool:

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a NEW HEAVEN..... the NEW dwelling place and the NEW throne of God..CHRIST IN YOU

Isaiah 66:1 ........where is the THE HOUSE ye built unto me

Hebrews 3:6 ...But Christ as a son over his own house, whose HOUSE WE ARE

Isaiah 66:1 .......and where is my place of REST.....The Father and His Son Jesus Christ and YOU are at REST TOGETHER in the NEW heaven, the NEW temple made without hands, the NEW place of worship ( John 4:19-22).

Cease from your works as God has ceased from his works, the WORKS were FINISHED at the cross.

The only LABOUR left is to bring man TO KNOWLEDGE

Isaiah 5:13 Therefore my people go into captivity, because they have no KNOWLEDGE: and their honourable men are famished, and their multitudes dried up with thirst.

Gods throne is more real than you or I could image !

Hi Brother Dan What you shared is a tremendous figure of speech called condescensio which is attributing to God human characteristics to explain his workings at our level the way he functions. Examples God bared His arm, the eyes of the lord Go to and fro in the earth, God walks with us and talks with us, and of course the one you gave. In Gods word these are used precisely to bring our attention to a specific point. Its a very interesting study in itself, also the bible has over 400 of them in it incredible.

Seeking on, you are correct, there is one God and Father of ALL, ever thing is by INHERITANCE.

I believe that Gods/Jesus thrown "is Heaven". All of Heaven.

Isaiah 66:1

"Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?"

The throne of God should not be thought of as a literal throne. God the Father is nonphysical. So not having a physical body, God does not " virtually sit." When we envision a divine throne it is akin to biblical allusions to God's "hand" or "mouth" or "eyes"-they are nonmaterial.

Hope this helps to put "throne" in perspective.

God Bless

Exodus 15:6

Thy right hand, O LORD, is become glorious in power: thy right hand, O LORD, hath dashed in pieces the enemy.

Luke 22:69

Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.

Mark 14:62

And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Matthew 26:64

Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Hebrews 1:3

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Acts 7:55

But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

Psalms 118:16

The right hand of the LORD is exalted: the right hand of the LORD doeth valiantly.

Colossians 3:1

If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

You said it Jesus inherited from the father . Therefore it was not his until the father gave it to him . God the father is God and father of all , including Jesus . But Jesus is the only begotten Son of God of the father as you well know . All authorities have been given Jesus from the Father as well , he did not have that or it would not have been given him .

If you have all the money in the world and controlled all banks . It would be unnecessary to give you what you already have . More money it would have been yours already .You Would inquire where did you get my money ?

Yes Jesus has a throne and His father has a throne 1+1=2

Dear seeking,

Yes, there is only one God who sits on the throne. You are true in saying that. But could the one on the throne be Christ Himself? Did Christ not inherit the throne? Does scripture not tell us that Jesus Christ has inherited all things from the Father?



Concerning Christ the Son, in Hebrews Chapter 1 Verse 8, it is God the Father who says "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."

Jesus here is being called God. Interesting!!!

Seeking on,

Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

God bless,

RLW