Discuss Hebrews 12 Page 7

Jesus plainly said there are 2 thrones his and the fathers .

Hope that helps .

Seeking, sitting at the right hand of the Father represents that Christ is the body that does all things the Father shows him to DO.

There is only one throne:

Revelation 3:21 He that overcometh will I (Christ) grant to sit with me (Christ) on my throne, even as I (Christ) overcame, an am set down with my Father own his throne.

John 17:21 That they all may be ONE, as thou, Father, art in me, and I in you, that they also may be ONE in us: that the world may believe that thou has sent me.

Thank you , very well put .

Hebrews 12.2

Why did Jesus sit down at the right hand of God and not sit on Gods throne ?

Stephen say Jesus at the right hand of God in Acts as well .

The conclusion must be there is only one God sitting on His throne .

Jesus is sitting by him at his right hand , not at all the same thing .

Jesus certainly is the Son of God sent to be the Christ or messiah , by God sitting on the throne .

Sorry I hit send...I was praying and asking God what do I do as a momma when my convictions don't agree with what the world is saying is ok.

Praise the Lord that my God is showing me abundant love and working in my son's heart and mine too.

I am 39 and was told a few months ago by my 15 yr old that he's transgender. It's been an emotional roller-coaster since. I've been praying and God is faithful. Hebrews 12 and beginning of 13

And again, the story of Jacob and Esau is referred to again in Hebrews 12:14-17, where believers are exhorted to pursue peace with all people and holiness, warned to avoid any root of bitterness from springing up to cause trouble, which defiles many and leads many to become fornicators and/or profane like Esau. The text in Hebrews goes on to tell how Esau sold his birthright for a morsel of food, and then later, wanted to have the inheritance back with its blessing but he was rejected due to his lack of repentance. From these N.T. Scripture we can consider that Esau di not wish to follow the ways of Isaac and his grandfather, Abraham. He wanted to run his own life his way. He is described as a fornicator and profane. This may be literally so or figuratively so, or both. Either way, Esau was rejected by God as the heir of the promise for reasons God knew in His perfect wisdom inn election of some to be vessels of his wrath an others to be vessels of his mercy. ( Romans 9:22-24) I suggest reading the whole section in Romans 9:1-33.

So, apparently God in his foreknowledge elected Jacob the heir of the promise, and Esau, in his free will choice to depart from the way of faith of his father and grandfather, was not elected. For me, I do not wrestle much with this matter, as I trust God's way and wisdom. If I was an unbeliever and read these Scriptures, I would be disturbed and either reject God or seek how to be saved, which depends, ultimately, on God's foreknowledge and election. God will never turn away a contrite heart who desires to be saved. He will make a way for this person to hear the gospel and give faith to believe by grace. Jacob was not a perfect brother, by any means. But, would become a man of God as he grew in grace and knowledge of God in his lifetime. I am reminded that later in history, God will identify himself as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. They were elected and blessed by God despite their failings, but acted on the faith God seeded in them

I take it to believe "yea", may not be him rejoicing but even that, has scripture backing Philippians 4:4-9, James 1:2-4, 1 John 4:18,

even if we walk in/near death we should not fear because GOD promises to be with us (that trust in HIM) Deuteronomy 31:8, Hebrews 13:5-6, John 14:16-21, Psalm 139:1-24, Psalms 37:40,

The rod; Proverbs 13:24, Job 21:9, Proverbs 29:15, Lamentations 3:1, many times references discipline, correction: Proverbs 22:15, Proverbs 23:14, Proverbs 3:12, Hebrews 12:4-8-11, Staff: Hebrews 11:21, Zechariah 8:4, Exodus 21:19, Numbers 22:27, 2 Samuel 3:29, Judges 6:21

Hopefully these scriptures help you with the HOLY Spirit to understand deeper. John 14:26, James 1:5

Brother Mishael; people are FLESH and BLOOD, God is SPIRIT.

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven.

Animals are flesh and blood.

Hebrews 12:27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth THE REMOVING of those things that can be shaken, as of things that are made (what can be physically seen, heard, felt, the five senses), that those things which cannot be shaken WILL REMAIN (SPIRIT).

1 Corinthians 5:5 To deliver such a one to SATAN for the DESTRUCTION OF THE FLESH, that the SPIRIT MAY BE SAVED .....

Sinful flesh DIED, only CHRIST remains. Of twain to make ONE.

Sister GiGi, isn't it interesting the three that met Abraham were all angels and yet were also men. Christ being the angel of the Lord. ( 1 Corinthians 15:49)

Psalms 103:20 Bless the Lord ye his angels ....

Psalms 104:4 Who maketh his angels SPIRITS; his ministers a FLAME of fire.

Luke 16:24 .....for I am in torment in this FLAME

1 Corinthians 5:5 To deliver such a one unto Satan for the DESTRUCTION of the FLESH, that the SPIRIT may BE SAVED....

Hebrews 12:29 for our God is a consuming fire (a single flame).

Colossians 1:27 .... this mystery.... CHRIST IN YOU....

I think the scripture reference used is Hebrews 12:1

In context Hebrews 10:35-39, Hebrews 11:1-40, continues = Hebrews 12:1-11

Michaela, the tree of life (Christ) is IN YOU, YOU are the TRUE garden of God (garden of Eden).

Things that can be seen are going to disappear, only what can not be seen will remain.

My words are Spirit and my words are life. You can not see Spirit and Life, but that is what will remain.

Hebrews 12:27

Here are some scriptures that I think are relevant in understanding this,

Hebrews 12:2

James 1:2-4

John 14:2

Revelations 21:4

1 Corinthians 6:3

Hopefully it's helpful & encouraging.

Brother Adam, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

Why do you BELIEVE FIRE is literal of physical fire. Why is the worm that never DIES a literal or physical worm.

Christ SAID my words are SPIRIT, therefore the fire is spirit, the worm is spirit.

Job 25:6 How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man (SPIRIT, TRUTH, LIFE), which is A WORM?

Hebrews 12:29 For OUR GOD (SPIRIT, TRUTH, LIFE) is a consuming FIRE.

Colossians 1:27 ...this mystery .... CHRIST IN YOU....the fire (spirit of Christ) that DESTROYS and PURIFIES is never quenched but IMMORTAL. The worm (spirit of Christ) that DESTROYS flesh and never DIES but is IMMORTAL.

We are the vessel (POT) the fire and the worm are the potter (CREATOR).

Psalms 104:30 Thou (the Father) sendest (SENT the Son) thy Spirit (of Christ), they (the vessels) are CREATED (by the WORKS of SPIRIT) (the fire and the worm): thou RENEWEST the face of the earth.

Artie, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

Christ HAS BEEN setting up HIS KINGDOM for the past two thousand years. The CHOSEN that have gone before us have been off the earth (delivered form their bodies of flesh into Christ's immortal body) and reigning and judging with Christ as messengers of SPIRIT.

Study the PARABLE of the workers (spiritual messengers) SENT to work in Spirits vineyard (CREATION).

Matthew 20:1-16

The DAY (TODAY, has been happening for two thousand years) of the LORD (second coming of (the SPIRIT of) CHRIST has been happening for two thousand years. Some workers (spiritual messengers) were SENT the first hour of the day: for example; the apostles that FIRST DIED IN CHRIST (and BORN AGAIN in Truth), afterwards other workers (spiritual messengers) that DIE IN CHRIST were rewarded with the immortal body of Christ to WORK in the vineyard (the garden) of God. This thousand year reign (this ONE DAY; the DAY of the LORD) will continue UNTIL the resurrection to JUDGEMENT occurs.

Hebrews 12:22-23

Adam when God formed him from the mud of clay of this earth; God added to it; his breath of life, that was life eternal, and a soul to control human kind body. But God decided to made him in his own image; in the image of God was Adam created, eternal. God set a free will challenge in front of his own life eternal, and said from all the trees in this Eden Garden you could eat but from the tree of Science of good and Evil you can not eat, not a touch the fruit of this tree, because from the very day you touch it and eat of it, you will lose your life eternal and you will become dead in time, day by day you will live until you died of old age, because the disobedience. That is why we die everyday of our life and is passed by our DNA, to our sons and daughters. But Now we have hope in Jesus of Nazareth, the Son of the Most High God, who died for the pardon of all our sins because the Grace of God, As Jesus died and resurrected to a life eternal again, so we will have this hope in him; who posses the well of life in him. Those who obey him, believe in him, trust in him, in his second coming will be changed into life eternal, to live with him in heaven at his New Jerusalem, the city of God; read Book of Hebrews 12:22 to 29 and Isaiah 33:14 to 24.

Amen and Amen, Brother S Spencer, we can't just be wounded by the Word of God ( Revelation 13:3). We have to DIE (be killed) by the Word of God ( Revelation 13:10).

2 Thessalonians 2:8 An then shall that Wicked (US, children of Satan) be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume ( Hebrews 12:29), with the spirit of his mouth (Words of God), and shall DESTROY with the brightness of his coming ( Colossians 1:27 CHRIST IN US).

Dgjot, ask the Spirit to give you spiritual eyes instead of natural eyes.

John 6:63 It is the Spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing, THE WORDS (Christ is the WORD) that I speak unto you, they (the words, Christ) are SPIRIT, and they (the words, Christ) are LIFE.

...the fearful...unbelieving...murderers (if you hate your brother, you are a murderer ( 1 John 3:15)....

Shall have their part in the lake of fire (THE WORDS ARE CHRIST)

Hebrews 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire (THE WORDS ARE CHRIST)

Colossians 1:27 ....this mystery.... CHRIST IN YOU....(living lake of fire) you are IN IT NOW.

Isaiah 10:16 ...and under his glory (you are the glory of God) he shall kindle a BURNING like the burning of a FIRE (THE WORDS ARE CHRIST).

Everyone is going to be judged in the WORDS ( in Christ, in the Fire (lake of)

The fire burns the trash and purifies you.

The fire is GOOD and necessary.

The fearful no longer fear, the unbelieving, BELIEVE, you love you enemies.

Don't call GOOD (the lake of fire), EVIL.

Hi Adam,

I understand your frustration and I feel the same way. In this world, nothing saddens me more than unbelievers and how it makes God feel.

Ephesians 4:18

They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart.

2 Corinthians 4:4 important

In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

People's Bible Notes for 2 Co 4:4

The god of this world. See Joh 12:31,40 Php 3:19. Satan is called the prince of this world, and the god of this world. Hath blinded the minds of them which believe not. By his devices he blinds the eyes of men so they should not see the light of gospel. The image of God. He who would see God may see him in the face of Christ. See Joh 14:9.

Revelation 21:8

But as for the cowardly, the "faithless", the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."

2 Corinthians 6:14

Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?

Hebrews 3:12

Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God.

Hebrews 12:14

Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.

John 3:18

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

Hebrews 11:6

And without faith it is impossible to please him for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

Rina Maria Lei,

You've said well, and I also agree with Mishael. If I might say something about the very next verse, it says "For our God is a consuming fire."

The writer of Hebrews is speaking to Hebrew (Jewish) people and saying, "You want to go back under the Old Covenant? The only thing you have to look forward to is the consuming fire of God." That's it!



The writer is telling them that through Christ, you'll have eternal life and be part of the heavenly city where God dwells. But for those people who don't want to identify with Christ, they will suffer the judgment of God.

Good fear, means reverence and honor; with heart, soul and mind.

We must, it's a must have the fear of God in Our everyday Life.Amen

Hell is thought of as being a place. Hell is not a place where the wicked suffer forever. Ezekiel 18:20 KJV - The soul that sinneth, it shall die. Ezekiel 18:32"For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye."

Revelation 20:14 "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." Matthew 5:22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, 'Raca,' is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell." That hell fire is God's light, taking darkness away forever. Wicked see that light as vengeance - wrath. Hebrews 12:29 "For our God is a consuming fire." James 1:17

"Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning." Malachi 4:3 "And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts." No one will see God as the fires of hell, when death is no more. Revelation 20:5 "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. They are the wicked. I am working on reducing that number. The size of the lake of fire depends on the number of lost people and souls. There will be a lake of fire. Fallen angels will be destroyed." Eternal torment, made people to make tormenting laws against people. God says fear not, don't be afraid, and don't worry through people, and in person. Ezekiel 18:32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the LORD God: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye. The saved will have charity, being prefect, not being offended by what is seen, being peaceful. 1 Corinthians 13: 4 - 7, KJV. Giving unto the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house has nothing to do with the giving of money.

OSEAS, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

I haven't spent a lot of time letting the Spirit teach me the things in Genesis that have to be SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED. I KNOW there are THERE because EVERYTHING LITERAL has a PARALLEL that has to be SPIRITUALLY discerned. I know part of them because you can see them quite clearly; as JESUS was the first created light.

I spend most of my study in the prophets and Revelation and their relation to the New Testament and how we become the the likeness and image of Christ; which also has to be spiritually discerned. How and when we will be the judges with Christ in the kingdom of God. None of this can be seen, but is as REAL as God himself.

Ecclesiastes 3:15 That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.

1 Corinthians 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural, and afterwards that which is spiritual.

Hebrews 12:27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the REMOVING of those things that can be SHAKEN, as of those things that are made, that those things which CANNOT BE SHAKEN shall remain.

I BELIEVE from reading you comments you understand that the literal has a parallel and that is what's REAL, the literal will DISAPPEAR.

When you have time, look at the story of Jacob (the literal) and the ladder to heaven, and replace Jacob with Jesus the REAL.

Genesis 28:10-22

John 1:51

I will study the seven days of creation in Genesis more; in the mean time; God willing, let us keep digging for the treasures of God's word (living and written), as the Spirit reveals them to us.

FIRSTBORN HEBREWS 12:23

Numbers 3:13 Because all the firstborn are mine; for on the day that I smote all the firstborn of Egypt I hallowed unto me all the firstborn in Israel, both man and beast: mine shall they be: I am the Lord.

Hebrews 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the FIRSTBORN ....

Exodus 22:29 Thou shall not delay to offer the first of thy ripe fruits, and of thy liquors: the firstborn of thy sons thou shall give unto me.

We are the tithe unto God.

Brother Jesse, MAY CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

Your question was: When we are gathered one by one where do we go.

It's not as much a question of where do we go: BUT who do we become.

I BELIEVE we become sons of God when we depart this body of earthly flesh.

Matthew 24:40

I BELIEVE the one taken becomes a son of God and the one left stays on earth confined to death and the grave, awaiting the second resurrection.

Luke 17:37

I BELIEVE the battle of Armageddon has been going on for 2000 years. It's the battle of worldly flesh against Spirit. Your fleshly mind has to be DESTROYED. The eagles (vultures) eat flesh. I BELIEVE it's happening now, you just can not see it because it is a spiritual battle. I BELIEVE Revelation 19; along with many other scriptures, describes this DESTRUCTION of the flesh as a necessity before the the marriage of the bride (can't be seen). Flesh and blood CANNOT inherit the kingdom of God.

Christ said my words are SPIRIT; the words being fulfilled, can't been seen.

Hebrews 12:18 For we ARE NOT COME unto the mount that can be TOUCHED ....

Hebrews 12:22 But you are come unto mount Sion (can't be touched or seen) (the battle for the kingdom can't be touched or seen), and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem (can't be touched of seen), and to an innumerable company of angels,

Hebrews 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to spirits of JUST men made PERFECT (mature).

If you have come into full maturity (being made perfect) then you are EXACTLY like the SEED you came from.

Luke 8:11 The parable is this: the SEED is the WORD of God.

You are a SON OF GOD. (but never with the glory of the firstborn, JESUS)

Just continuing with this brother & enjoying the exercises of knowledge & faith that you're giving me.

Various Scriptures (e.g. Romans 8:29, Colossians 1:15, Hebrews 12:23) speak of Christ being the "firstborn of creation & the firstborn of the Church". He was first to give birth to His creative work & by definition, entitled to be pre-eminent with highest honour & rank over all. And by virtue of His Death & Resurrection, the first to bring Deity & humanity together in one, i.e. to His Church, as He is now in the flesh as well.

Therefore, I would rather think that it's not the "DNA of Christ" that is in all atomic matter, but His Spirit Who was in Him & now given to those who call upon His Name. As we know, our composition is spirit, soul & body and that spirit has, since the fall, been devoid of any attachment to the Spirit of God. Yet, it is to that same spirit of man that the Holy Spirit attaches when re-birth has taken place. Then what we read in Acts 17:28, given to the unsaved Athenians, finds its perfect fulfilment in Romans 8:1, 1 Corinthians 1:30, Ephesians 1:3, etc., where once we were just the "offspring of God" receiving life & breath from God, but now, through Christ the firstborn of His Church, we receive spiritual life & the ministry of the Deity in manifold ways. I can't see that His 'DNA' is in all living creation, which after all, have been created from dust, but His Spirit is given to those coming to Him via the Cross.

I can agree though with your last paragraph concerning "the Lamb being slain from the foundation of the world". What was in God's Will to occur, will occur, & can be treated as fact even before they happen. Christ's crucifixion was real in God's Plan & became a physical reality at Calvary. Thank you Leon for sharing your thoughts.

Page 2.

Revelation 3:14. We see this expression ("the beginning of the creation of God") only here. I would include Colossians 1:15-18 which speaks of Christ being "the firstborn of all creation - for by Him were all things created - through Him & for Him". Even though the Greek for 'beginning' & 'firstborn' are very different, I think the same application is implied: that Christ is the Creator (the beginning) of all creation: both of the original creation & then being the forerunner of those IN Christ (the firstborn (& by implication, the Creator) of the new creation) - also Romans 8:29; Hebrews 12:23. Blessings.

Sister Jeannie, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

The day that CHRIST IN YOU arrived, a living FIRE was ALSO kindled IN YOU (for our God is a consuming FIRE Hebrews 12:29).

If you have ever watched a trash pile be burned, you know it takes time. Even after the flames died down the coals stay alive under the surface. If other trash is put upon the coals the flame appears and destroys them also. CHRIST IS OUR FIRE; live in peace of this knowledge; you will become PERFECT, like him. He will DESTROY the unwanted trash in you. He knows exactly when and how. We are the POT he is the POTTER; be still and behold THE SALVATION OF GOD. Knowing the END (you will be created in the IMAGE OF GOD) CAUSES us through Christ's GRACE to ENDURE.

When CHRIST IN YOU arrived the ACCUSER was cast out.

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is SALVATION, and strength, and the kingdom of GOD (CHRIST IN YOU), and the power of his Christ: for the ACCUSER of our brethren is CAST DOWN, which accused them before our God day and night.

Philippians 4:7 And the PEACE OF GOD, which passeth all understanding, shall KEEP your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

Me on Mark 10:9

Hebrews 12:14. Follow peace with all men and Holiness without which NO MAN shall see the Lord.