Discuss Hebrews 12 Page 9

Darren, may the spirit grace you with his wisdom and his knowledge.

no part of revelation is going to occur in the physical sense.

revelation is spiritual warfare for the kingdom of heaven.

revelation is completely symbolic.

isaiah 9:5 now every (natural) battle of the warrior is with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood; but this (spiritual battle) shall be with burning and fuel of fire.

isaiah 9:19 ....and the people shall be as the fuel of the fire....

isaiah 4:4 when the lord (a consuming fire hebrews 12:29) shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of (new) zion, and shall have purged the blood of (new) jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgement and the spirit of burning.

luke 12:49 i am come to send fire on the earth; and what be i (the fire), if it (the fire) be kindled already?

matthew 4:11 ....he shall baptize you with the holy spirit and with fire;

isaiah 9:18 for wickedness burneth as the fire (our god is a consuming fire).....

isaiah 10:16 .... and under his glory (us) he shall kindle a burning like the burning of a fire.

isaiah 24:15 wherefore glorify ye the lord in the fires ....

isaiah 31:9 ....whose fire is in (new) zion, and his furnace in (new) jerusalem.

isaiah 33:14 .....who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burning?

where the fire is never quenched (our god is a consuming fire)

isaiah 42:25 therefore he hath poured upon him the fury of his anger, and the strength of battle; and it (the battle) hath set him on fire round about, yet he knew not; and it (the battle) burned him, and he laid it not to heart.

ezekiel 5:2 thou shall burn with fire a third part in the midst of the (new jerusalem, christ in you).....

zachariah 13:9 and i will bring the third part through the fire ....

revelation 8:1-13

revelation 9:18 by these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire...brimstone...smoke....

hebrews 9:27

1 peter 4:17

Steve Anderson

"saved by Grace THROUGH FAITH"

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8&9

You cut short that verse to construe it to your purposes. "and that(the faith)not of yourselves; it is the gift of God"

Faith in God is a gracious gift of God.

"Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith" Hebrews 12:2 I believe that if you or I were the author of our faith it will finish badly.

"There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death." Proverbs 14:12 & 16:25

Saved is not a condition whereby you are clinging to God, but he with you in his grasp.

Looks like God hated Esau because sold his birthright. Hebrews 12:15-17 "Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled; 16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. 17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears."

That is a very telling portion of Scripture, again showing that water baptism is simply one's visible act of identification with the crucified risen Christ & not necessarily an evidence of saving faith. One would always rejoice in another's baptism testimony but only the Lord knows & judges the heart.

Simon appeared as one saved, as the Scriptures indicate, but he had other plans that were not consistent with his salvation experience: he wanted to continue his profession, no more in sorcery, but in using the "power of God" which seemed much greater than he had before, to earn him bigger bucks. So in both ignorance & wickedness he sought to purchase this "power". Peter then withstood him & essentially told him, that if this was his attitude, then his salvation & baptism were not real. And that he was in "the gall of bitterness" suggests that Simon's heart was as gall, which is similar to Hebrews 12:15: "root of bitterness". What was he bitter about? Simon was in the grip of envy, so strong that the envy he should have had for receiving more of Christ, was actually envy for his personal carnal profit. And this proved a heart of bitterness towards those who had what he didn't have.

For any bitterness that you have, you need to deal with that speedily. A bitter spirit against others, for any reason, is like a canker that will continually eat into you, even to the point that you may wonder whether you're actually saved. Bitterness & hatred are close cousins; both are not acceptable by the Lord. You recognized this in you, which is the first step. Then you have to deal with it: seek forgiveness from God & the other person, pray for yourselves - for healing of the mind & spirit, do good things for him/her - cover it with love.

When you know something is wrong (e.g. the violent movie) & refuse to watch it, then you're obeying the Spirit's Word to your heart. If you however, disobey, you will soon get the Spirit's tug to remind you that "Alec, you should know better".

Hello Paul,

I did the search for you brother:

Matthew 26:64, Mark 14:62, Luke 22:69

Psalms 110:1

Mark 16:19

Acts 2:33

Acts 7:55-56

Romans 8:34

Ephesians 1:20

Colossians 3:1

Hebrews 1:3

Hebrews 8:1

Hebrews 10:12

Hebrews 12:2

( 1 Peter 3:22

Fred, the Spirit is gracing you with his understanding and his wisdom. My reply is not so much to you; but to others who read and respect your comments. Our process of dying to the flesh and being made alive by the Spirit is described throughout the word of God, but most are hidden in parables, metaphors, similitudes, proverbs, etc. This is the Spirit's doing because without the SPIRIT you can't understand.

Example:

Zachariah 14:12 And this shall be the plague (spirit not natural) wherewith the Lord (Spirit) will smite ALL the people that fought (spiritually not naturally) against Jerusalem (spiritual not natural); Their flesh shall consume away (spiritually not naturally) while they stand upon their feet......FLESH AND BLOOD CANNOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD.

Revelation is especially symbolic and hidden from natural eyes. It also describes how we die to the flesh.

Isaiah 9:5 For every (natural) battle of the warrior is with confused noise, and garments rolled in (natural) blood; but this (spiritual battle for the kingdom of heaven) shall be with (spiritual) burning and FUEL of (spiritual) fire.

Isaiah 9:19 .....and the people shall be as the FUEL of the (spiritual) fire.....

Isaiah 4:4 When the Lord (Spirit) shall have washed away the FILTH or the daughters of (spiritual) mount Zion, and shall have purged the blood of (spiritual) Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the SPIRIT of judgement , and by the SPIRIT of burning.

Hebrews 12:29 For our GOD (SPIRIT) IS A CONSUMING (SPIRITUAL) FIRE.

Revelation 9:18 By these three was a third part of man (those called) killed (they died to the flesh), by the (spiritual) fire (Christ now in the form of the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit), and by the smoke, and by the brimstone.....

Revelation 20:5 But the REST OF THE DEAD (those who have not yet died to the flesh) lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the FIRST RESURRECTION (therefore there had to be a FIRST DEATH.

May the Spirit grace you.

God truly is so good!

"you won't see God with his son standing next to him".

Luke 22:69; Hebrews 1:13; Hebrews 8:1; Hebrews 10:12; Hebrews 12:2; Acts 7:56; Romans 8:34; 1 Peter 3:22; etc.

Hebrews 1:3

Hebrews 8:1

Hebrews 10:11-13

Hebrews 12:2

Luke 16:19

Mark 14:62

Romans 8:34

Ephesians 1:21

1 Peter 3:22

Acts 7:55

Colossians 3:1

These verses should be sufficient to show that the risen Jesus Christ is now at the Father's right Hand.

Alex, It is you who has taken the word of God out of context, so as to further the lie you teach. Saved by the fire, regardless of what a person believes, is not by faith in Christ to have paid for sins. Jesus did say, "it is finished", that is, the work of salvation which he finished on the cross. "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God." Hebrews 12:2 "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" Hebrews 5:9, not ALL, as you say, will enter eternity as saved. Alex, you diminish the sacrifice of Jesus.

While I address this reply to Alex, I know he will not hear. But this forum is open to many others who come here with an intent to hear and see God's word. It is no surprise that agents of Satan will be here to slander God's word. They operate as the fowls following the sower, to take away the seed of truth. Luke 8:12

All the four Gospels give some narrative about Jesus' baptism by John.

Matthew chapter 3; Mark chapter 1; Luke chapter 3; and John chapter 1.

Wasn't Jesus baptized by John the Baptist? If so, would you please give me the Bible verse(s) that explain it?

Hi Zybejta, I'm unsure about the dreams, May i ask have you received Christ as your Lord and savior? I do Know he would want that, and Hebrews 10-25 says do not forsake the assembly. and When and if its safe he do want you to find a good bible teaching church and fellowship

I was born into a communist country and raised athiest. when I was 23 yrs Old I defected communism! March 21, 1991 immigrated to the USA. Dec 8 got baptized & married in church! That nigh I see God and Jesus in my dream. Since then I kept seeing dreams! I Jesus healing me, John the Baptist, Haven, rapture, one months before the tsunami happened I see it on my dream! During the election 2016 when I voted for Trump because GOD told me to vote for him, and although I voted for Hillary 1st time & 2nd Time Romney! I was democrat for the past 25 yrs! I feel thirsty for knowledge of god but I don't feel going to any church! I really like to know what all this mean?

Give it to God stop seeking answers from anybody else people even with the best intentions can you scripture tell you the wrong answer even when they think it's right only God knows you situation your future plans Etc nobody even comes close to having an understanding like God there's only one unforgivable sin God loves and forgives all of his children Jesus frees you this death and Sacrifice by his blood because of is as Father's Love When You Believe in except this can you love God does it mean to take the easier they almost always get harder especially when you can't forgive yourself let go of your past trust in him let him have control deny own understanding and have faith pray to God about it and that's God take care of it his will be done it's only one unforgivable sin God might want you to start a new life being born again a new plan a new marriage and happiness cetera or he may want to restore what you had or the one you have everything is going to be okay and no matter what I may have decided and does for your life it will be good let go of everything set your eyes on God heaven give it all to him ask forgiveness and repent you can start anew if that's what he wants for you and can be free of all the things that he removes and let's die on the cross with the old you honor all of what you receive to the best of your ability don't expect things to be easy perfect are for you not to have to make a serious effort be grateful and thankful even though you've really been saved by grace and not by works love God with all your heart and soul love others do your best to follow the Commandments even though your free of the law

HI Clara, I do not know what you mean by regarding the Lords blood unclean, can you be more specific? have you received the Lord as your savior? if so you know we stumble, but God want let his children live in sin, he chastise those that are his, read Hebrews 12:7-13. That's what that verse would mean to you. Now if you're not a child of God and you die in you sins then that verse means judgment for them. but you can except Christ as you savior and turn from that sin grow in grace and he will remove that sin from your life.

HEBREWS 12:14 Follow peace with all men and hollinesse without which no man shall see the Lord 1611 bible

HEBREWS 12:14 Followe peace with all men, and holinesse, without which no man shall see the Lord:'' kjv 1611 bible

This is what I know. God is a spirit and a consuming fire. Jesus is fully God and fully man. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ

The Holy Spirit is invisible.

King James Bible

Hebrews 12:29

For our God is a consuming fire.

Deuteronomy 4:24

For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.

John 4:24

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

John 15:26

But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

The Scriptures about the Godhead. Sometimes called "Let Us..." in some passages. Three persons: all are one God.

Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7

Isaiah 6:8

Romans 1:20

Colossians 2:9

Acts 17:27-30

1 John 5:7

John 10:30

Maybe you'd like to add a KJV Bible to your bookcase?

Blessings, Mishael

Heb'12:27

"Yet once more" will I shake not only the earth, but the heaven also signifies a great shaking of peoples secrets, hidden agendas, 'powers of the air' and desires for world DOMINATION ...

Eph'6:12 " for we fight not against flesh and blood but against principalities and powers of the air in high places"

Ergo see Trump 2020 that exemplifies this

Rom' 2:13-16 ".......when on that day according to my gospel God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus"

A great shaking is taking place in America right now!! And not America only!! and the very aftershocks are shaking this PLANET to its very foundations....even to we in 'down under' land

Mat'10:26 "So have no fear of them, for there is nothing that is covered that will not be revealed...."

Mat 13:41

"the son of man will send out his angels, and they will weed out all causes of sin and corruption and all evil doers"

The weeding out of corrupt people, hidden systems is hapenning before our very eyes!

God bless America!

Unto the children of Israel the LORD commanded:

Ye shall do my judgments, and keep mine ordinances, to walk therein: I am the LORD your God. Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am the LORD. ( Leviticus 18:4-5)

By Ezekiel's time, Israel and Judah had strayed so far from the covenant in flagrant disobedience that the LORD judged the nation, delivering them up to destruction and captivity. Ezekiel 18:26 is part of this judgement.

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. ( Galatians 3:10-12)

In Jesus Christ, though free from condemnation, we are subject to Christ and are accountable to him:

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. ( 2 Corinthians 5:10)

Consequences of sin can be far reaching and ruinous to ourselves and those near and dear to us. Our prime example is David, who to cover his adultery had Uriah killed, then suffered the loss of fellowship with God, lost four children, and endured a bloody insurrection among other consequences. (beginning 2 Samuel 11)

For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. ( Hebrews 12:6-8)

I can't be give a specific answer to your questions, but as I've read that passage, it seems that during the forty days & nights that Jesus was in the wilderness, He would have become increasingly hungry - as any man would be. He would have drunk water in the interim as the body cannot survive without it. And it could have been that during those forty days that Satan approached him with the first test of turning the stones into bread to satisfy that extreme hunger, or it might have been at the end of the fast (which I tend to support).

There is too little narrative about this part of Jesus' time in the wilderness, as the focus no doubt, is on His thwarting of Satan's thrusts against Him to cause sin to enter Him. Had Jesus failed here, He would have been disqualified to be our Saviour, & God had no other means to fully meet the payment of our sins & our acceptability to Him. Jesus withstood Satan, not regarding his own needs, all for our sake. Even while on the Cross (the last & greatest attempt by Satan for Jesus to spare Himself from further suffering & death), Jesus remained resolute in His Calling, as Hebrews 12:2 says in part, "for the joy that was set before him (He) endured the cross, despising the shame". All for the love for those who put their faith in God through His death.

Michelle, what a sad story you've shared. Your situation would rank high on a list of the many griefs a person can experience: that of not receiving love in a marriage, rather "manipulations & abuses". You have been despised & rejected & to then find solace, love & understanding in another, is indeed a natural human tendency. But the conviction & despair resulting from your actions has brought you now to this point of sorrow as well as the gnawing sense of the Spirit's absence.

Your sorrow which must lead to repentance WILL find the Father's forgiveness. 2 Cor 7:10, "For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death". This speaks of the difference between a true sorrow that comes from a heart that belongs to the Lord as opposed to the World's sorrow (here, means 'regret') which avails nothing. You are truly under conviction of your actions & this conviction can only be from the Holy Spirit Who longs to draw you back into cleanliness & harmony with the Lord.

As much as you now feel the love & companionship that has been missing in your life for so long, the Word of God is clear about entering into a second marriage: 1 Corinthians 7:10-16. Divorce is an extreme permissible act, but re-marriage is not allowed. And that, as you will know, is because the marriage bond is of God & for a reason: Mark 10:7-12. You have been both physically & mentally faithful to your husband for so many years whilst under trying conditions; if at all possible, you need to go back to him & remain faithful in your vows, thereby being God's witness to him that might alert him to his errors. But if you have to leave, then God requires you to remain single. Many Christians in such a situation would prefer to re-marry, but then their position is not for us to judge.

Scabies needs to be treated quickly & the home decontaminated. Anything that might cause us to become alert to sin is useful, but not necessarily a result of it.

If your current husband is an unbeliever: NOT a Christian; you may be divorced on grounds of: alienation of affection.

1 Corinthians 7 teaches you and a Christian husband may declare a fast from sexual relations for a time (but not years!).

Do not commit adultery. Repent of any impure thoughts. Commit yourself to God to settle this issue. We are not constrained by Old Testament laws. Matthew 5, Jesus restates issues of divorce.

Satan is accusing you in your head. He wants everyone to be clueless and commit sexual sin.

See a Christian marriage counselor, or your Pastor. It helps in court to show you sought advise. Get your own attorney.

Commit your path to the Lord. Listen.

Mishael

After reading Chapter 12 Hebrews, I'm more deeply convicted of my sin. I've been married for 35 years, 20 years without affection or sexual relations with my Husband. Many unfortunate types of manipulations and abuses, etc. And I stayed cause I wanted to triumph over this, honor my marriage, and God hates divorce. A few years passed, and I sought the Lord more diligently, more time, more prayer etc. The voice of the Holy Spirit was strong, although, my past Pastor didn't trust or believe when I reported a Jezzabel in the church and a witch oppressing prayers at that church.

Since then, I've sinned grievously and I can't hear the Holy Spirit anymore. The devil know us quite thoroughly, and there was only one person I would have been tempted with. OF course hindsight is 20/20. Good boundaries and no problems with this for my entire marriage. A happenstance of an old friend, we started speaking, and I began a relationship with him emotionally and physically. Now, I love him and want to be with this person. My character was not of someone that would do this, never would have thought I would ever do this. But here I am and sorrowful I've sinned against my Holy Heavenly Father.

I'm frightened that I may have given my Heavenly Home birthright away, and I'm destined for hell. Father God please No. Esau was sorrowful too. He grieved as I have, and I want to hear the Holy Spirit again. This chapter convicts me more- is there no hope for my salvation now? Is it lost forever? How do I know if I have fallen permanently from the Grace of God? Hell :'(

This man was divorced, but I am not. I have not had relations with my Husband for many years. Do I divorce my Husband and marry my Friend. (act of my sin, is like marriage)?

I've prayed to God for help, and have spoken of regret and help to know what to do. The last 6 weeks, my friend & home have scabies and I caught them. :'( Can I make this right by marrying my new love? Are the pests warnings and of what?

HELP please

"Yes, the Bible assures us that Heaven is a place of absolute happiness and joy and peace-far greater than anything we'll ever experience right now. The Bible says, "Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ" ( Ephesians 1:3).

Do those in Heaven know what's happening on earth? The Bible doesn't answer all our questions about Heaven-but it does indicate that those who have already entered Heaven may be aware of events on earth. The book of Hebrews, for example, pictures life as a great arena, with those who have gone before us cheering us on in our daily spiritual struggles (see Hebrews 12:1).

Once when Jesus' appearance was changed and His heavenly glory shone through, Moses and Elijah spoke with Him about events on the earth (see Luke 9:30-31).

Does this mean people in Heaven are sad when evil seems to be winning the day?

No, not at all. For one thing, they (unlike us) see the whole picture; they know that even in the midst of life's heartaches and trials, God is still working behind the scenes. They also know that Satan is a defeated foe, and some day all evil will be destroyed and Christ will rule in perfect peace and justice."

Comment by Billy Graham

Who better to answer this question? I've seen the scriptures mentioned. I always think of them cheering us onward. To avoid pity parties with myself. To never doubt what the Word teaches. Mishael

God is not mad at you:

And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. ( 2 Corinthians 5:18-19)

Though innocent, the Lamb of God Jesus suffered exceedingly:

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. ( Hebrews 12:2-3)

Faith endures:

...And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. (from Hebrews 11)

Jesus said:

These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. ( John 16:33)

The LORD has a wonderful purpose in trials and suffering:

That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. ( 1 Peter 1:7-9)

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There was no older people to look up to. Pastor said he wanted to run the church his way. I was careful about hearing those words, but I'm sure he was implying Hebrews 12:14. When he would say things which sounded like anger, I'm not saying it was, or act a certain way that I know he would not act if certain deacons and pastors were there. I must be honest, it concerned me. This was around about 2001. We were in a large church rented from another church. Very huge but very seldom got passed a handful of people. When the church seemed to grow, they stayed for a while and leave. The pastor does not know to this day, that most of them told me that this church would never grow if there's no love. I feel that if the pastor is hard, we could tolerate it to a certain extinct. I used to be able to encourage him, but his wife, I say this in the name of Jesus Christ, is doing so much discord which causes the division. Any ideas we have, she would try to take over, or be a part of it, because she knew certain ones had gifts. But what she was doing was sickening to our stomachs. I was faithful to church 3 days out of a week if possible. I lived in south St. Louis, and their church was all the way North County. It seemed like no one cared how far I had to drive because when I missed a day or two, he would mention in church that some of us aren't committed and wont sacrifice. Sometimes I went to church with no electric, very little food, and a car with expired license plate and bad engine.

First of all nobody is perfect.( Romans 3:23-25) Second of all i will pray for you to the Father.( 1 Timothy 2:1-4) David, Solomon, Moses, Aaron, and others in the Bible were not perfect, sinned against God and were corrected for it.( Hebrews 12:6-11) The key thing we all need to do daily is repent of our sins because we are not perfect but Jesus Christ our Lord is and he loves us wanting the best for us.( 1 John 1:9)( 2 Peter 3:9) Our choices decide how close or distant we are from the Father.( James 4:7-10) The main thing we need to remember is that God loves use and created us for his pleasure.( Revelation 4:11) The Lord never falls short but we do. This is why he wants us to humble ourselves and ask him for forgiveness in sincerity.( Proverbs 28:13) If we are not pleasing to him he will correct us to keep us from being deceived and falling away from him. The Lord instructed use through his word and sacrificed himself to draw us closer to him.( John 1:1-5)( John 3:16) Pray believing in the Lord with a humble heart and talk to him, he loves you because your his child( Mark 11:24).

Chris, may the Spirit grace you with the intent of my words, none to be taken as condemnation but edifying. The beast in revelation has so been misunderstood by the teaching of the carnal mind and the doctrines of man. May the Holy Spirit grace us with his words. Job 18:3 Wherefore are we (all mankind) counted as beasts (carnal minded), and reputed vile in your eyes. Psalms 49:20 (carnal) Man that is in honour (pride),and understandeth not (the Spirit), is like a beast that perish (goes to the grave). Psalms 73:22 So foolish was I, and ignorant: I was as a beast before thee (Spirit of God). Proverbs 9:1-2 Wisdom (by the Spirit of God) hath builded her house (us), she hath hewn her seven pillars: (vs) 2 She (wisdom) hath killed her beast (carnal mind).... Ecclesiastes 3:18 I said in my heart (mind) concerning the estate of men, that (the Spirit of) God might manifest (grace) them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts. II Peter 2:12 But these (carnal mind) as natural brute beast, made to be taken an destroyed, speak evil of the things they understand not.... Jude 1:10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beast...The only mammal (beast) that buys and sells is a man. Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom (hath killed her beast). Let him (wisdom) that hath understanding (of the Spirit) count the number of the beast: for it (the beast) is the number of a man (all mankind)....The angel told John not to seal the book. Revelation was just as relevant in Johns (To-day is the day) as it is (To-day is the day). The day (one day) of the Lord that was prophesied by the prophets has been going on now for 2000 years. The beast (all mankind) is judged in Christ ( Hebrews 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire) and the beast was thrown alive into the lake of fire (Christ), All mankind will eventually be judged in Christ. Gods grace be upon us.