Discuss Hebrews 13 Page 7

So question to get people thinking. "My God, My God why have you forsaken me"? Did God actually forsake Jesus? If so, does that make God a liar? Because He says in Deuteronomy 31:6 "...the LORD your God goes with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you." He even repeats it in Hebrews 13:5. So does that mean that God loves us more than Jesus? His perfect son? The son who delighted in him? Well Psalm 147:11 disagrees with that. "the LORD delights in those who fear him, who put their hope in his unfailing love." So why did he forsake him? Is God a liar? Did he change his mind? no and no! "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine..." 2 Tim 3:16 and Hebrews 13:8, "Same yesterday, today, and forever."

So we have a problem, either the bible is wrong or we're wrong. The common argument to this is that, "God's wrath was so much, because sin was so bad." To which I reply, is God a god of wrath? or of Mercy? "The LORD is compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, abounding in love," Psalm 103:8. They say, well it was a long time, but time is nothing to God, "With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day." 2 Pet 3:8. No, God wasn't so angry. There's something else here. When Jews memorized the bible, they didn't have verses, they memorized the first sentence in a chapter as it's name. And guess where that first sentence appears? Psalm 22, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" Read the Psalm, whether Jesus said the whole psalm and it was recorded as just the title or not, doesn't matter, that is what he meant, and his disciples new it. This isn't a psalm of poor me, but of love, mercy and restitution! Jesus's last words were, "They will proclaim His righteousness, declaring to a people yet unborn: He has done it!" HE IS PRAISING GOD! Not crying out! He just recited the prophesy of his death, bones out of joint, pierced hands, flogging to show bones! God didn't forsake Jesus, Jesus praised God!

Satan, was an angel, and he transformed into a snake. Most angels look just like us.

Whoso findeth a wife findeth a good thing,

and obtaineth favour of the Lord.

Proverbs 18:22 | KJV

And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Matthew 19:4-6 | KJV

Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord. Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them.

Colossians 3:18-19 | KJV

Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

Hebrews 13:4 | KJV

Who can find a virtuous woman?

for her price is far above rubies.

Proverbs 31:10 | KJV

A man's heart deviseth his way:

but the Lord directeth his steps.

Proverbs 16:9 | KJV

Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word.

Ephesians 5:25-26 | KJV

Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

1 Corinthians 7:2 | KJV

And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

Genesis 2:18 | KJV

When a man hath taken a new wife, he shall not go out to war, neither shall he be charged with any business: but he shall be free at home one year, and shall cheer up his wife which he hath taken.

Deuteronomy 24:5 | KJV

And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Genesis 2:22-24 | KJV

Wives, submit you

Go to the top Search Box, and type: angels. It's a lot to read. Angels are real. They report to God. You may ask God for angelic assistance?

They are also called: ministering spirits.

Entertaining angels unaware? Can that be any life form, physical, spiritual, animal, mineral, vegetable?

Here is another place in the Bible that supports not being a Christian island but instead, in humility supporting Jesus's bride the living church which is promised that the gates of hell will not prevail against her.

Hebrews 13:1

Let brotherly love continue.

From experience, the more the better!

Carleton, by love.

1 Corinthians 7:9-But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

Bible Definition for burn: pyro-to be inflamed with sexual desire,

Hebrews 13:4-Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

Bible definition amiantos: undefiled-not defiled, unsoiled, pure, free from that by which the nature of a thing is deformed and debased, or its force and vigour impaired

Bible definition of pure: katharos- pure clean.

God considers marriage sex clean. Anything outside of that is unclean.

1Th 4:7- For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.

Hebrews 13:17

Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

See 1 Corinthians 12:28 also.

The Laws of this Country forbid Polygamy.

It's not necessary to dispute it. You can Google the penalties yourself.

If we speed in our car; we get a ticket. ETC

Civil Law is to be obeyed, as much as the Ten Commandments God have to us.

Russell Rose on Hebrews 13:17. In Titus 3:1 and Romans 13:1 we are told to be good citizens. However, that doesn't mean we have to tolerate tyranny. God has given us the ability to govern. In the US, for example, men, guided by God and Biblical principles, put that ability to work and developed the Declaration of Independence, the Bill of Rights and the Constitution. As long as the people in charge of government implement its precepts properly, we ought to form a part of it, support the government and work to improve it.

However, when governments, and that also applies to churches and other organizations, depart from those principles, it is up to us to point it out, speak up and rectify it. See Nehemiah 9:27 and Esther 4:14. Christ worked within the established Roman and religious rules in Israel. However, He also pointed out the contradictions that existed within the religious order of the Jews. Christ wasn't a revolutionary, because He came with a Mission. His Mission was not Social Reform. His Mission was the total defeat and annihilation of death, corruption, evil, pain, suffering and idolatry (exalting other things in place of God).

What is the meaning of Psalms 27

I referred to 2 Timothy 2:15

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Many will come in his name to teach us divers and strange doctrines putting first they own law, but if we study daily then we will know when we are with the right shepherd which God will be well pleased

If the leaders demand we disobey a command of the Lord we are to disobey them. Example the Hebrew midwives at the time of Moses commanded the male children be killed and they disobeyed him as recorded in

Exodus Chapter 1:15 And the king of Egypt spake to the Hebrew midwives, of which the name of the one was Shiphrah, and the name of the other Puah:

16 And he said, When ye do the office of a midwife to the Hebrew women, and see them upon the stools; if it be a son, then ye shall kill him: but if it be a daughter, then she shall live.

17 But the midwives feared God, and did not as the king of Egypt commanded them, but saved the men children alive.

18 And the king of Egypt called for the midwives, and said unto them, Why have ye done this thing, and have saved the men children alive?

19 And the midwives said unto Pharaoh, Because the Hebrew women [are] not as the Egyptian women; for they [are] lively, and are delivered ere the midwives come in unto them.

20 Therefore God dealt well with the midwives: and the people multiplied, and waxed very mighty.

21 And it came to pass, because the midwives feared God, that he made them houses.

22 And Pharaoh charged all his people, saying, Every son that is born ye shall cast into the river, and every daughter ye shall save alive.

Yet in Hebrews 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Rome was evil and Yet Jesus said to pay their taxes as an example to us:

Matthew 22:17 Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute (Taxes) unto Caesar, or not?

19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.

20 ... Whose image is this?..

Matthew 22:21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

Where does it tell us to obey our government in the Bible and where does it tell us to disregard our government and follow the word of God?

Timothy, Bob has given excellent examples showing our first obedience is to the Lord in all things & as part of that obedience we are obey our governments, only if they don't demand that we deny Him in any way. Many through the ages withstood such govts. (think of the various Empires we've seen in history & to which (a type) all on Earth will one day be subject to), & those who disobeyed because of their faith & love for God, were executed. Fortunately, our govts. have not resorted to this, treating everyone 'fairly', but it won't be like this when the Anti-Christ reigns.

However, your point I see is, do we even have God-fearing leaders, & if we do, are they challenging the wicked legislations in place (which include homosexuality, abortion, wilful murder, & anything contrary to God's Word)? As you know, some are doing something in this regard, but if they are to be leaders with a voice, they know they cannot overstep the bounds set by their political party, or out they go. So really, the status quo is that good leaders have not really made too much of a difference. Who then do we obey? This really has to be a personal decision, according to the dictates of one's conscience.

For me, I refuse to vote, as to me it means hypocrisy (as it is, I have to be on guard over some weak areas in my life - I don't need to add another to it). I still obey the laws of the land, but my vote can't go to any person or party that dishonours God. We will never get a perfect govt, I know, but I believe as Christians we should expect God-honouring laws from people that fear God (& not man), that God may indeed bless our lands. The U.S & most other countries suffer greatly because of wickedness in 'high places'. Can we expect the blessings from God? What do we get instead from govts.? Laws that generally meet people's expectations, regardless of their correctness, so that the majority vote may be garnered when needed.

Greetings Timothy If the leaders demand we disobey a command of the Lord we are to disobey them. Example the Hebrew midwives at the time of Moses commanded the male children be killed and they disobeyed him as recorded in

Exodus Chapter 1:15 And the king of Egypt spake to the Hebrew midwives, of which the name of the one was Shiphrah, and the name of the other Puah:

16 And he said, When ye do the office of a midwife to the Hebrew women, and see them upon the stools; if it be a son, then ye shall kill him: but if it be a daughter, then she shall live.

17 But the midwives feared God, and did not as the king of Egypt commanded them, but saved the men children alive.

18 And the king of Egypt called for the midwives, and said unto them, Why have ye done this thing, and have saved the men children alive?

19 And the midwives said unto Pharaoh, Because the Hebrew women [are] not as the Egyptian women; for they [are] lively, and are delivered ere the midwives come in unto them.

20 Therefore God dealt well with the midwives: and the people multiplied, and waxed very mighty.

21 And it came to pass, because the midwives feared God, that he made them houses.

22 And Pharaoh charged all his people, saying, Every son that is born ye shall cast into the river, and every daughter ye shall save alive.

Yet in Hebrews 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Rome was evil and Yet Jesus said to pay their taxes as an example to us:

Matthew 22:17 Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute (Taxes) unto Caesar, or not?

19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.

20 ... Whose image is this?..

Matthew 22:21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

The word says in various forms we are to choose our leaders that are GOD FEARING and we are to be subservient to those leaders. Does the Bible say what the individual believer's responsibility is with respect to dishonest NON-GOD-FEARING leaders.

Larry B Jesus was, is and always shall be God, who came in the flesh to redeem mankind from sin and death.

1 Timothy 3:16

"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." King James Version (KJV)

God never changes. Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Jesus never changes. Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

God is the only Saviour. "I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour." Isaiah 43:11

To the only wise God our Saviour... Jude 1:12

God our Saviour. Titus 2:10

...we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour. I Timothy 4:10

God my Saviour. Luke 1:47

Jesus is the only Saviour. ...the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. 1 John 4:14

...our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. II Peter 3:18

...God and our Saviour Jesus Christ. II Peter 1:1

...the Christ, the Saviour of the world. John 4:42

...the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour. Titus 1:4

a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. Luke 2:11

Neither is there salvation in any other (than Jesus): for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

-- Acts 4:12

...salvation... is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

-- 2 Timothy 2:10

If you live in the USA, you can google your State's laws on it. Some states recognize it;

Others do not. It can't be treated as divorce until someone moves out of the house.

Since God created the first marriage with Adam and Eve, we have to observe His requirements to put away a "spouse".

1 Corinthians 7-9; Genesis 38:8;

Deu. 24:2-5, Hebrews 13:4; Jeremiah 3:14

My comment here, is if God can say 'I'm married to you'..then marriage (a covenant) between two parties is serious and binding. If you bend the rules because society says you can doesn't mean it's the best choice.

I say that because of how it hurts children to live the impermanence of life without one parent. I overheard one day a group of children call themselves, "divorced" kids. Five of them said, I'm divorced, and 1 kid said my parents are married. The 5 told him he was lucky.

Talk it over with your Pastor or the Pastors wife.

Mr. Wolfen, in my response to Erica, I mentioned Jesus standing at a door with no handle. YOU must invite Him in. If you open the door, (get saved), you invite Him in. The Holy Spirit is knocking on the door of your heart. If you do not open the door and let Jesus in (GET SAVED), you CAN NOT sup with Him. Once you have accepted Him, (let Him in), the door will never close.

Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

Yes Mr. Wolfen, this verse, ( Rev. 3:20) is referring to being saved. If YOU never open the door to your heart, (get saved) Jesus will NEVER be able to sup with you.

If something is on the civil law books as illegal; we are actually told in the New Testament to obey those who have rule over us: such as Goverment, State laws, etc. It's in the Bible. These are the scriptures I was thinking of: Titus 3:1-2 and Hebrews 13:12. We are still supposed to obey God's laws too.
I like to drive the speed limit and you'd think I was breaking a law the way people act going around me :/

Amen! 100 years ago people said that the Bible needed to be changed to "get with the times." No doubt people said so before that, and they absolutely say it today. But that is nonsense. Jesus' and His words are the same today as they were 2000 years ago. It's futile for us to change His Word to suit us.

I didn't think I was leading others to return to the Law. If something is on the civil law books as illegal; we are actually told in the New Testament to obey those who have rule over us. It's in the Bible. These are the scriptures I was thinking of: Titus 3:1-2 and Hebrews 13:12.
All States vary in their interpretation of what incest entails. Penalties vary as well. Some are quite strict.
Conversationally, I don't want my tax dollars to be used to fund poor women's abortions. Citizens need to vote, rally or petition Government to initiate laws to stop hijacking tax money for it. Make Choice bear that burden.

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

1 Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Notice he said let US (plural) make man in OUR (plural) image. God don't deceive to deceive is guile.

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

This is what Scripture states on this issue.

Hebrews 13:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 Marriage is honorable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whore-mongers and adulterers God will judge. If you love her, marry her and serve God.

Dear Mike, consider Job! He lost everything including his entire family, possessions, yet he refused to curse God and die. It is in the trials of life that we are refined as silver. You can trust that God's Word is true, He promised never to leave you nor forsake you. Even though things are not at all what you might expect, you can trust that God is still there regardless. His grace is sufficient.

GAZ-Yes, the law is still in effect today, Hebrews 13:8 God is the same yesterday, today and forever. Commandment 4 Exodus 20:8-11 is important and will come into play right before Jesus comes, man will enforce his law to worship on 1st day of wk Sunday but we are to worship God and be obedient to His laws and worship on 7th day of wk. Acts 5:29 better to obey God not man

Yes! the 7th day is still God's Sabbath. Since God does not change Hebrews 13:8 His law 10 commandments are still binding..Read Matt.22:36-40. The 1st 4 are commandments that tell us we should love God with all our heart and the last 6 commandments are to tell us to do the same for fellow man. All 10 are in effect today as much as in the beginning. Blessings!

Steve. God does not change. Hebrews 13:8 He is the same yesterday today and forever..God did not change between the OT and NT..He still expects us to be obedient to Him. Please study it out, it's all there is you will ask Him to guide you into all truth.

Jesus Christ is our righteousness, peace, sacrifice and offering not eat not and touch not Leviticus7. Therfore it is good that the heart be established with grace of God as stated in Hebrews 13:9 "Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein."