Hebrews
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This would have to be True Believers falling away for it to say ["apostasy"] divorce, and (writing of divorcement).
Thank you for your post.
God Bless.
Admittedly; there aren't a lot of specific verses as to what exactly we will be doing in the Millennium and eternity. I have elaborated on rewards involving ruling over more or less cities in regard to our faithfulness now; as well the scripture about David once again ruling as co-regent under Christ (see Jeremiah 30:9). The Levites are said to have some sort of role at least in the Millennium; with sacrifices in a new temple mentioned in the last few chapters of Ezekiel.
Perhaps studying Israel as a Theocracy in the past (although certainly not a perfect example) gives us some idea how we will rule and reign with Christ ( Rev. 2:26-27 but also somewhere in the O.T. mentioned as well). Isaiah 66:19-20 shows what the physical survivors will do after Armageddon in reaching distant places gathering them for worship in Jerusalem.
As Resurrected Saints interacting with earthly people; we may need to be in charge of ensuring that ceremonial purification occurs so that those in our presence not to mention in the presence of Christ won't die because of some impurity. It is hard to say how our roles will work with those who are in physical bodies still doing some sort of Temple ritual. We also will probably work out disputes; perhaps initally as a sort of cleanup crew (again with the physical survivors) after the Ezekiel 38 war (likely part of the campaign related to Armageddon).
Haven't heard from you for awhile. Welcome back on here.
This Scripture in Hebrews is difficult in respects to the danger to those who have turned from Jesus after once walking with Him. Hell is real and the destination of all who are not in Christ Jesus-even some we know and love. How much we should pray that our own faith will endure to the end and that of those we know as believers. How much we ought to pray for all whom we know who are non believers. We pray for God to provide many opportunities for us to share the gospel. There is much need amid all the evil we see and know about. So much more we do not see and know about. But God knows all and is ever working to draw people into this life of faith in Jesus.
4. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5. And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6. If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened"....."If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance".
Don't these people realize that they spit in the face of Jesus and threw away their salvation???? There's no 2nd chance for them. Many false preachers/deceivers are in the world, teaching non-Biblical nonsense. I see billions of people sliding down a greased pole to hell.
I cringe whenever I hear of "Christians" who ditched Jesus in favor of Islam, or any other "religion".
Matthew 17:5
"While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which (God) said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him."
Christians get a bad rap. They are commissioned to spread the Word that only Jesus can save humans from their sins. Christians try to warn others that if they don't repent of their sins and seek Jesus, they will go to hell.
As a Christian (but not a very good one) I'm so sick of the wicked and their in-your-face debauchery. Christians are accused of being controlling, hypocritical and hateful. It's so disheartening and exhausting to try to talk to these people. Should I grieve for anyone who knowingly rejects Jesus and dies in their sins??? I'm sure God and Jesus are broken hearted. Somewhere people got the idea that Hell will be one big party. NOT!
I woke up this morning singing to the Lord in my mouth and heart. It must have been a beautiful dream of peace and of the Lord Himself! May worship be with me all day, I pray, Amen. Then I opened the Bible in Hebrews 6:1 reading the beautiful words probably Paul has written, influenced, inspired by the Lord Himself. And as so many Christians struggle with. In the New Testament they are put together as a common thread. So we WILL understand them eventually.
The words you read here are to be read in the Spirit of revelation and wisdom so that you find out for yourselves what the rest of the words and sets in the chapter are about, is the truth we are searching for. The truth we can testify to for hungry people outside the scheme. And we are also starving for God. He will give us both food and water that live and that will go into the eternal dwellings! Go out in peace everyone and know that you are the bearer of a light, a truth, a love like no other on this planet. And it/are will last forever. Amen
Stay close to Him and His word. For remember we shall search and seek, and we shall find. And we must seek more to not be deprived of what we have. When we have received much from the Lord, He will give us more. All in His Glory, Hallelujah Amen. Love u all in Christ Jesus.
This suggests the covenant is made by God "and you".
" God would multiply Abraham's seed by one coming whom the Gentiles will trust and when he gets here you have a role to play to initiate it."
This idea puts us in bondage!
Galatians 4:23-28
But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Hebrews 6:17-19.
Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:
That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
WHICH HOPE WE HAVE AS AN ANCHOR OF THE SOUL, BOTH SURE AND STEADFAST, and which entereth into that within the veil.
UNCONDITIONAL COVENANT.
Genesis 15:2-12.
God performs the ritual for the covenant alone,.
That makes it unconditional.
The promise has an inheritance.
A city made without hands! Hebrews 11:9-10.
The birth of Issac was the result of Gods faithfulness
Abraham couldn't do anything to void it. Abraham believed God!
We're children of promise and there is nothing we can do to void it.
This promise is given to those who believe.
God bless and good night.
Hello Jesse
I had decided not to participate any more in discussions we have all had before about "secured or not salvation", but at the end it seems I can not avoid it.
About the grk HUPOMENO and HUPOMEINAS.
HUPOMENO is a verb of the first person, its complete form is "ego hupomeno", it means "I endure", (as you know in grk when speaking the personal pronoun is ommited since from the ending of the verb it is known to whom it is reffered).
HUPOMENON is a noun, it means "the one who endures, an endurer".
HUPOMEINAS is the same as above but it refers to the past, i.e. "the one who endured", I don't think there is a respective single word in Eng.
[Pronountiation in mod grk (if you are interested), the "h" is not pronounced, and the "u" is pron. as "ee". So it is "ee-poh-meh-noh", stressed at "meh". Always have in mind that syllables in grk usually are of the form conson-vowel, not conson-vowel-conson, neither vowel-conson. as in Eng. Also vowels are clear front mouth vowels. That will help you a lot when pronouncing grk words.]
So lets go to Mark 13:13, "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.". I don't really understand how you come to understand that verse the way you do. To me it is obvious that it says exactly how it sounds, that the one who endured those tribulations (Jesus speaks as if He sees those events after they happened, that is why He uses the past tense) he WILL be saved.
Similarly James 1:12, "Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he SHALL receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him". How do you understand this verse? It is like running a road, of say 10 miles, if one finishes then one receives a crown.
Hebrews 6:15, "And so, after he (Abraham) had patiently endured, he obtained the promise"
Rom 11:22, "...but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off."
Growth can and indeed will occur with good soil and the implanted seed of the Spirit. When we sow with tears we reap with joy ( Psalm 126:5-6). Indeed; these verses show us that the harvest is present with us and surely is our reward for effective service (see also Hebrews 6:10; Isaiah 55:10-11). Just as our walk in Christ isn't just a spectator sport; our participation isn't merely an individual source of growth; but mutually edifying for the body. That is how spiritual gifts are to be properly practiced (see 1 Cor. 12 starting in verse 4).
We should therefore rejoice when others rejoice; weep when others weep ( Philippians 4:4). This explains why it is often better to be in the house of mourning than feasting ( Ecclesiastes 7:2-4). I am not one to argue whether Christ had a sense of humor; but will state that it is better to refrain from jokes if there is any uncertainty and certainly from "course jesting" ( Eph. 5:3-4).
God is steadfast and unchanging; unlike the vicissitudes of the human heart. Stability comes from a well grounded faith and walking in the Spirit as our "sure foundation and anchor of our soul" ( Heb. 6:19).
Patience being one of the fruits of the Spirit especially today is; in my opinion underrated as to its value. Just a brief survey of Bible characters shows how many things took time to completion; whether with Abraham's wanderings and progeny; Moses' deliverance; Joseph's prominance; and David's ascension to the throne. In fact too much success too quickly was a factor in Solomon's fall despite God warning him not to multiply gold and horses as well as foreign wives. This is the real issue with the "prosperity gospel" as surely God as well as Satan can be the facilitator of worldly gain (as well as efforts from hard work). It is the pride and comfort in our possessions which bring a man down (see Luke 12:16-21). It also makes rich people give a disporportionally low percentage vs the poor
Hebrews 6:6,
"If they shall fall away, (it is impossible) to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."
Pay attention to that "it is impossible to renew them unto repentance". This obviously is not you, is it? People that fit to that verse never worry about things they do, they don't feel any sort of guilt, they would never repent. So stop worrying, you have been forgiven. Remember the prodigal son, his father was always waiting for him to come back and was ready to give him his previous place in the house. GBU
If you desire to be restored in faith and live for God, then you have not fallen so far as to be outside of the reach of God's grace and salvation.
One who has completely fallen away would be one who was a believer and completely renounced the Lord and faith in Him to the point of continuously stubbornly refuse to return to God and follow after God.
I hope this does not truly describe you since you desire to amend your ways. Don't give up hope. God has put this desire within you and He has given you this "wake up" call to bring you back to Him. Take Him up on this and ask Him to grant you full repentance and a full return to faith in Jesus that cannot be shaken again. He wants to save You and secure You in His kingdom.
You can always come to the feet of Jesus and seek forgiveness and restoration. 'god will receive you back "from the dead" if you so desire. The unrepentant backslider who has turned his heart from God without desiring to be rectified by God's grace and presence within is the one who in in peril.
Thank you for such a thoughtful reply. There is room for prodigals in God's "house" should they take God up on the repentance He extends to us and return to Him in humbleness, sincerity, and sorrow for having sinned against Him. And, yes, I agree, sin is a deadly thing, always. It deeply offends God and always harms the sinner in many ways. In the righteousness of Christ and a life of godliness we can know what true freedom is. It is certainly not the so-called freedom many feel sin affords them. In truth, it is bondage in the worst way.
I hope to hear more from you.
I want to make one thing very clear. God is not willing that any should perish. Yes, to fall away is a terrible thing and the punishment is great and if we stay in that state the punishment will be everlasting. The fruit that sin provides leaves a long trail that only God can mend, but my friend ease realize we have an advocate who loves us dearly.
"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"
I also want you to realize, we all need to realize that sin is not something we need to take lightly. Society today has put sin in such a light where some sin is not so bad, but when you put any sin before such a Holy God we can begin to realize how sick sin really is.
My friend you have a God who loves the backslider. If you come to him and repent My God will forgive you. Come to him in a true heart and he will forgive you. A lie of this world will tell you that if you were saved you're always saved that is hells longest standing lie. "ye shall not surely die" if you sin there is wages and that is death, but the gifts of God are eternal life through Jesus Christ our lord.
I was once a back slider and God was good and gracious to me. He found it fit so save this sinner boy. Now I am a new creature in Christ Jesus. I have many scars, but Gods Grace is sufficient. Now I am here today preaching the Gospel. If he can save me. He can save you. I am not ashamed of this Gospel, it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth.
Keep in mind also the difference between physically being preserved for a time and spiritual deliverance. These are both realities for the children of God in reverse order. In New Testament times as with Old many are called but few chosen ( Matt. 22:14). There are other verses showing how some experience some of the benefits of being in God's presence ( Hebrews 6:4) are still not ultimately saved. The parable of the sower and the seed illustrate this fact showing how the seed of truth must eventually not only take root but produce fruit. God enables that His Spirit reproduces good fruit in our lives as evidence that it is indwelling; not merely an external event. Hence all true believers are "sealed" until the Day of Redemption ( Ephesians 4:30).
In God's Providence there are some; such as the 1/3 that are preserved "going through the fire" ( Zechariah 13:9) who appear to make it physically through the Tribulation to repopulate the earth in the Millennium. That will include the handful of Gentiles that make it; although man is said in general to be "rarer than the gold of Ophir" who makes it through that way ( Isaiah 13:12).
Thus; these verses and a multitude of others makes it imperative that we "test ourselves to see if we are in the faith". ( 2 Corinthians 13:5). I personally believe that through God's sanctification process we all must get beyond our initial excitement over being a new believer as well as the trials of persecution AND temptations of the world to be "tested and approved" as true believers as part of the process of chastisement as God's adopted children. ( Romans 12:2; etc). The end of all those called and chosen in Him is glorification (read all of Romans 8:30).
Hope this helps.
Perhaps also the concept of doing things as James states is a result of faith WITH works; without such it is not true faith at all.
All works of course originate from our heart; and it's condition of being either good or evil (good fruit vs bad) as the input result in the output and the "reward" in it. So for the unregenerate the law may constrain sin; for instance; but as Psalm 119 illustrates we learn to LOVE the law even though it is something without His strength that we cannot obey. So it is the same God who is present and seen in some form who we all interact with. Hebrews 6:4 makes it evident that there is some experiential commonality as it were with all men; but the difference is having the Lord make residence in our hearts vs. being on the outside looking in as it were. Admittedly these are tough concepts and no matter how much intellectual understanding there is we have certain things hidden to us as to the full meaning ( Deut. 29:29). Our own worst enemy is; of course our own self and sin within. Saints of God understand this and therefore He "chastises all He loves" ( Hebrews 12:6). This differentiates Judas Iscariot from Peter in regard to the betrayal and the end result; for example. In the short term; it may be hard to discern the wheat from the tares but for many time will prove what fruit is present in their lives although sadly it takes until the end of someone's life for it to be clear (and that is almost always bad news). In the end we can only exhort; and rebuke and hopefully some will be retrieved from "out of the fire" as it were. Those who are His own learn to listen to the HARD verses in scripture and are offended when a lukewarm message is being offered or it is compromised in any way.
Hope some of this helps. Agape. Rich P
Psalms 139:1-18, 1John 4:15-19, Philemon 1:7, Hebrews 6:10,
Hopefully these are encouraging
James 1:5,
Hopefully these are helpful
5. Love: Agape-Unconditional. We can't find such a resource in our tool box in our own strength. Go ahead and try and let me know how it works for you. People have; sadly referred to God's love as "reckless"; I will leave out the particular artist that comes to mind with such language...
We are in a feckless world; and the fact that the love of many will grow cold ( Matt. 24:12) certainly extends into the professing church as we see the warning to the Ephesian church ( Rev. 2:4). It is good to be looking for love in the RIGHT places; but sadly many are obsessed with the wrong places; people and situations. In the Body of believers we are commanded to love one another( John 13:34) and of course "they shall know we are Christians by our love (next verse John 13:35). The attributes of love are found in 1 Cor. 13. Our affections need to be grounded there in the fellowship of the saints and our own relationship with the Lord. There are some like myself that I know who have abstained from television for a number of years now. I am living with my parents so watch it sometimes but it is hard to decide when to walk away. Hopefully; we can have a healthy relationship with our cell phone as well as the amount of time on social media or even watching the news. There is much to be avoided with the fear today at epidemic levels; and of course "true love casts out fear." ( 1 John 4:17-18). It is more than for us but for our WITNESS that we avoid having our minds filled with distractions. People will see in our eyes and countenance that we are anchored in Him as Hebrews 6:19 states. We don't need to tell people so much how committed we are they can tell; and let their love or hate for us be dictated by our chastity; and reverence of the Lord Jesus as our Savior and Master.
We are; of course "unworthy servants" ( Luke 17:7-10) along with friends of God ( John 15:15). A healthy balance is good to ponder this upcoming New Year
AMEN
These verses are in context and contradict what you are claiming, but even though they're in context and you just click or hover over it to read the whole chapter or book you just dismissed it as not being in context.
I noticed your response didn't have any Bible verses supporting your view.
I believe in and stand by Jesus's words. It sounds like you're accusing Jesus of being about "works." You do so at your own risk. I will not be ashamed for believing in what Jesus says, even if people use all kinds of tricks to attack.
Jesus: "If ye love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15
You: No, don't obey, because that's works.
Is that really your position that it's "bad" to obey Jesus, and "good" to not obey Jesus?
If so, that sounds exactly like something satan would say. Such a clever deception to get people to believe its somehow bad to do good and good to do bad. As if God wants people to disobey Him!?
Also I noticed you used the same straw man argument everyone else has been taught to use that if you want to follow Jesus then automatically you're trying to work towards heaven and there's no other possibility. I already said we're saved by grace, which seemed to be ignored. Of course I already answered this fallacy in advance, but maybe you didn't read it or did and claimed this fallacy anyway. Anyway, I feel a moral obligation to counter the lies on here and anyone claiming that its bad to follow and bad to obey Jesus is just is not speaking the truth. The Bible warns Christians of this throughout scripture.
Matthew 7:21-23
Hebrews 10:26
Hebrews 6:4-6
James 2:14-26
Matthew 12:31-32
Romans 14:12
1 Peter 1:5
1 Cor 9:24-27
2 Peter 3:17
Luke 8:5-18
1 Timothy 4:1
2 Peter 2:20-22
Hebrews 3:12
Galatians 5:4
1 Corinthians 15:2-8
There is one definition for the word faith. "Persuasion".
There are 2 recipients of faith.
1)"The lost or those in darkness.
2)"The saved, Children of the light and "Promise".
For the Children of darkness, Persuasion rests on what is uncertainty/Hopefulness. "Darkness,
The Child of promise is in the light which shines in our hearts. 2 Corinthians 4:6. This is supernatural!
It's Christ Persuasion that we rest on. We are persuaded by what is truth and cannot lie.
Hebrews 6:12-33. That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,
faith/persuasion comes by hearing the word of God.
GB
Matthew 12:32 "...but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."
James 2:14-26 "...faith, if it hath not works, is dead..."
Luke 12:5
John 14:15
James 2:14-26
Romans 6:1-2
Hebrews 6:4-6
1 Timothy 4:1
2 Peter 2:20-22
Matthew 12:31-32
1 Corinthians 15:2-8
Hebrews 3:12
Romans 11
The Bible answers this question quite clearly. Some are trying to use human logic through cherrypicking and misinterpreting a couple verses instead of simply believing God's truth through the whole Bible. Satan wants people to assume they have an insurance policy and license to commit unlimited sin and do whatever they want.
Does the Bible even say you're instantly "saved" when you start to believe, or does it say that you can have hope of salvation and assurance of salvation if you are a genuine follower until the "end" on the day of judgment? Let's see if the Bible says "now" or in the "end"...
Matthew 24:13
"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."
1 Peter 1:5
- "...salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."
1 Peter 1:13
"...hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;"
Hebrews 10:36
"For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise."
Reading the entire Book of Hebrews tells us that the Jews rejected these valuable teachings back then. Now many Jews today accepted the truth about what Jesus did on the cross. The trueagedbelievers are not a babe anymore. We are in the Kingdom of God for a long time. We are working to be holy because we know we are already saved until the Lord Jesus Christ will come and take us alive or dead n Christ. Something to be excited about. I cannot emphasized enough that once a true believer enters into the Kingdom of God you are God's children. Yes you will have afflictions, yes you will be mocked, yes you will have people around you who does not fully understand the power of God, yes we have unbelievers around us, then it is up to each of us how to show the Glory of God is in us. I read a few comments here and there in this site and I can only pray with the help of the true saints here that we all speak the same thing about the Kingdom of God and heaven above. There is no going back when you are a true believer. The struggles with flesh is your own will not of God. When you are with God you know everything. Be patient because good character is a work of a lifetime and as you aged you can reflect and say "oh that is what it meant to be." Let God do all the work. Jesus already won!
After much study & reading, I've understood deeper the connections of names, families, places etc.
For instance Melchizedek, in Genesis 14:18, is very significant later! Psalms 110:4,
Hebrews 7, Hebrews 5:5-10, Hebrews 6:18-20,
Lot, Abraham's nephew also called brother Genesis 14:12-16, Genesis 13:8-13, also shows Abraham's love, meekness, loyalty to Lot. Genesis 18, also Lot spoken of in New Testament as a promise of deliverance of GOD"S people 2Peter 2:4-9,
Genesis 19, Sodom & Gomorrha also spoken of several times
& Abraham himself named Abram, Genesis 17:5,15, & Sari, Sarah, it's amazing the significance of names we find as we keep reading & studying! John 14:26
Hopefully these are helpful
My comment is that salvation is conditional whether people believe it or not, because its what the Bible says. It's full of calls to action and challenging us to change our behavior. Most people will not be saved Matthew 7:13. Salvation is with grace but is only for believers/followers- a choice that each person must make. One way to summarize this action appears to be genuine belief and faith in Jesus Christ. John 3:16. That is an action and choice.
So, if someone does not believe, one can presume the unbeliever will not be saved. This already "offends" a lot of people, because some want to justify themselves in their own mind while doing the bare minimum they assume God wants. Some have been deceived into believing obeying God is "bad." But believing is only one of many action verbs the Bible challenges us to do. Other actions fall under this category of genuine active belief and following Jesus too. All these verses in the Bible are true and are equally important. Some like to cherry pick one, but ignore others and assume they don't apply, but they all apply and are true and are God's word.
believe:
John 3:16
follow Jesus:
John 8:12
deny himself:
Luke 9:23
confess:
Romans 10:9
faith:
Ephesians 2:8
hearing:
Romans 10:17
repent and be baptized:
Acts 2:38
keep commandments:
John 15:10
love:
Matthew 22:37-40
There are many more. Some falsely assume by obeying God they are doing 'works' and that is 'bad', therefore, obeying God is 'bad'. No, that's not what the Bible says, and obeying doesn't mean you're saved by works or that people who obey believe that.
My last comment is that James and Paul are consistent. Some assume Paul was anti-works, but only if you cherry pick a few verses and ignore large parts of his book can that conclusion be drawn. Paul was very much pro-obedience as the following verses demonstrate:
Romans 2:9-10
1 Peter 1:5
1 Cor 9:24-27
Hebrews 6:4-6
Galatians 5:1-4
2 Timothy 2:10
Hebrews 10:26
2 Corinthians 5:10