Discuss Hebrews 6 Page 6

(Part 1)

Lex,

I'll have to respond in a couple of posts. I believe this is important as some use this section of scripture to show that our salvation can be lost.

When I approach any book of the bible, I first have to understand who the book was written to and why it was written. Hebrews was written to the Hebrews, Jewish people. The letter was written to Hebrew Christians. But at the same time, as I go through the book, I see three different classes of people. So I have to understand it from a Jewish standpoint.

The Purpose of the Letter was to warn against apostasy during persecution. It's when believers suffer that believers consider to stop following Christ, or consider compromising in their walk with the Lord when things get tough. Now when I say believer, I also think this can be broken down into two classes, those who are saved, and those who are unsaved.

Now in order for me to understand the various passages and the various sections of Hebrews, I have to understand these three groups to whom it was written.

1) To Hebrew believers. (Saved believers)

2) To Hebrews who have an intellectual understanding of Christ but have not been saved, and they are considering going back to the religious system of Judaism because of the persecution for identifying with Hebrew believers. So these are Hebrews who understand what's being taught, and they intellectually agree with it, but they have never received Christ.

Chapter 10 tells us that after they identified with the Hebrew believers and they went home, their possessions were stolen. Their fellow Jews were kicking them out of the temples. And it would cause some of them to lose their jobs. Their friends would disown them.

So you can imagine a Jewish person, right at that place where they understand and they agree with it, but they haven't received Christ. But they have this persecution going on and they say "If I go all the way with this thing, this is what's going to happen. Everybody is going to disown me.

Jesse,

This sounds like someone who is a true believer "4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

I have worried about this scripture alot and how can someone be a partaker of the Holy Ghost and the powers of the world to come without being a true believer? I mean enlightened and tasting the Word of God could be people who are exposed to the truth but if they are partakers of the Holy Ghost doesn't that mean the Holy Spirit is in them?

Thanks John Nolan, I appreciate your encouraging words and yes it is our job to help others find Christ as their Savior ( Matthew 28: 18-20). And for those in Christ, to abide in His Word. It's ignorance of the Word of God that Hebrews 6:6 comes into play. (see also v.4). The key word there is "if." Thanks for your faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Happy Father's Day everyone.

Ron,

Hebrews 6:4-6 is a section that many use to say you can lose your salvation. But it is not talking about losing salvation. Salvation cannot be lost. You have to understand that these were Hebrew/Jewish people who were following along with the believers and partaking in the teachings along with the believers. But they never were saved so there was no salvation to be lost.

Think about it this way. There are many people who pack our churches every Sunday. But not all who go to church are saved individuals. A person has to receive Christ and be born of His Spirit in order to be saved. Now, those individuals in the church who have never received Christ, they may look and act like believers, and yet be void of the indwelling Spirit in their lives.

You and I might think they are saved because they go to church and speak the lingo, and might even say amen on occasion but still never received Christ. So after many years of going to church, they had enough and walked away forever. Did they lose their salvation? No, they were never saved, to begin with.

That is the same thing we see in Hebrews chapter 6. Those Hebrew people were in with the crown and partaking of the same things the believers were partaking of, but they did not take that next step of surrendering their life to Christ. They were being enlightened to the truth, but an enlightened person does not mean they are a saved person. A person can be enlightened to the truth, and still, never receive Christ. They didn't surrender because of the persecution that they would have to go through if they denounced Judaism and received Christ as their Messiah.

So instead of surrendering their life to Christ, they turned away and went back into Judaism. It was much easier for them to do that than surrender to Christ. But they were never saved, so there was no salvation to be lost!

Regarding Hebrews chapter 6 - is such a person lost for evermore?

Hello Lex,

You have been given some pretty sound biblical advice here. If I might add, Hebrews 6:4-6 is not talking about a born again believer losing salvation as salvation cannot be lost.

I would like to also share with you what I get from Mark 9:24, the verse you shared. I'm glad you brought this verse up.

It says, "And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief."



Nowhere in the Bible does it challenge someone to come up with their own faith so that Jesus can perform in your life. That's the cry of a person. I believe, but Lord Help my unbelief because I can't believe. Only God can give me that. Help my unbelief!



It is always the strong point in a person's life when they can approach the Lord, even as a nonbeliever, even if you don't understand the things of God, you can still approach Him and say "Lord, if you are real, make yourself real to me!"



I mean, even a nonbeliever, somebody who doesn't believe in God, they are asking God to do it all because they realize their human inability to figure Him out.



If you have ever looked at the awesomeness of an electrical storm, you can just sense that there is an awesome God behind all of this because this is just a drop in the bucket compared to the universe.



But how are you going to find God? How are you going to know about Him? You know, when you come to Him and say, help my unbelief, I am empty, magnify yourself to me, show yourself to me, because I don't have the ability to know, and He reaches down to those people to manifest Himself.

If you have truly called out to the Lord to save you, His promise is that He will do so ( Romans 10:13). And once you are saved, your salvation can never be lost!

Dear Lex. You've shared a couple of things that are very concerning. You wrote that you were, "not faithful when trying to research and prove to yourself that Christianity is true." Though not knowing what was going through your heart & mind, I believe that if a person is a Christian, he has already confirmed in his heart of the reality of his sinfulness, his need of a Saviour, of Christ's full & complete Work on the Cross for him, & that by accepting & believing that Truth in repentance, he has not only proven the reality of Jesus, but also of the inward change in him.

Christians can have all types of intrusions into their lives as Satan creates fears, doubts, temptations to sin, etc. All these things God forgives on the basis of His Son's death as we come in repentance for our folly & sin. But you have stated that you might not be fully convinced that "Christianity is true". So, I would ask you, with great care: 'have you truly repented of your sins, been born again & have God's Spirit in you?' And secondly, 'if you have come the Way of the Cross, then what is troubling you about your faith or God's Word?'

Before you can even concern yourself with Hebrews 6:4-6 (which was a specific warning to those who were wanting to revert back into Judaism) & about apostatizing, I feel you need to attend to the other matter to find out why you are having doubts about 'your faith' & to prove the truth of 'Christianity'. However, if you truly believe you're saved, then it could be that you're not spending much time in God's Word, in prayer & receiving wholesome teaching in a Fellowship. Maybe, you need to ask questions (even here on this Site), seeking answers that will clear up your doubts & fears. And remember, when God's Word assures us or gives us an answer, we can fully trust it & use it against any doubts or fears we may have. Every Christian must daily put on God's Armour in readiness ( Ephesians 6:10-18). May the Lord lead you especially in your matters of concern.

If you are afraid you have fallen away because you had thoughts of unbelief and doubt, is it possible that you have not aposticized because you are worried about it? As in if you questioned your faith and felt faithless will God forgive that or are you doomed because you were not faithful when trying to research and prove to yourself that Christianity is true and felt discouraged and confused. Since then have been praying for forgiveness and understanding but according to Hebrews 6:4-6 it looks really bad. Now I am sitting at home just worried that I have unwittingly forfeited my salvation because I was scared and confused and weak in faith. This is incredibly stressful.

Hebrews 6:1-2 = The epistle writer identifies "the first principles" here in these verses which include the following:

+ "repentance from dead works" (v.1),

+ "faith toward GOD" (v.1),

+ "the Doctrine of baptism" (v.2),

+ "laying on of hands" (v.2),

+ the "resurrection of the dead" (v.2), and

+ of "eternal judgment" (v.2).

In the previous chapter (5:12), these "principles" are "first" (Greek noun root ; pronounced "ar-KHAY"), for all believers experience these "first principles" in Salvation.

The "first principles" are the "milk" (5:12-13) new convert Christian "babe(s)" require to sustain spiritual new life. The epistle writer metaphorically described those principles which follow the "first principles" as "strong meat" (5:14). Here, the verb "leaving" does not mean to forsake and abandon the "first principles", for these are "foundational".

As newborns grow in stature from "babes" into "them that are of full age" (5:14), so too do their nutritional demands increase from "milk" (5:13) to "strong meat".

The term "first" speaks of the basic, foundational principles, and from which more in-depth principles will follow. These principles which follow will require more spiritual insight and discernment.

This same rule applies to every individual Christian who strives for spiritual maturity and "perfection". "Leaving" means to build upon these "first principles" by pressing forward unto spiritual "perfection". Once the Christian convert achieves full understanding of the "first principles", he then strengthens these initial principles with more weightier, complex THEOlogical Doctrines.

Page 2.

When considering Hebrews 10:26,27 & its sister portion in Hebrews 6:4-6, we find that the same matter is being addressed. In both references, the warning of "sinning wilfully" & "falling away" are given. And these are mentioned because some of them were teetering into apostasy (i.e. turning from Christ back into Judaism). Just as Hebrews was for the teaching & guidance to the 'Messianic Jews", it was also a stern warning to the others.

So the "wilful sin" in Hebrews 10:26, wasn't a voluntary act of sin or being found living in such state, but one of apostasy. And as we read that passage through to verse 29, we note the writer's lesson: 'if those who sinned under Moses' Law were condemned to death without mercy, how much more will these others suffer who have trodden over God's Son, despising His Sacrifice, doing despite to the Spirit of Grace'. These were those who may have been converted, or appeared to be, but had determined in their hearts that Jesus' Sacrifice was insufficient or had little appeal in the light of the old Judaistic beliefs & teachings. To these, the writer says, that there remains "no more (no other) sacrifice for their sins" - the Law could never save them, nor can any other saviour. But "we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul" (v 39): there were still those who held onto Christ as their only Saviour & Hope.

So we can delight that even if we, as believers, slip up & sin, Christ's Sacrifice & the Spirit's Work in us, will ever alert us, draw us & bring us to repentance. If a person has none of this blessed Work going on in him, then the Spirit is not in residence & he may be deceiving himself ( Romans 8:9). But the warnings there in those portions in Hebrews were for those desiring to turn back into Judaism, for which there was no forgiveness & no further sacrifice available ( Hebrews 6:4-6).

Michael.

As we know there's several views of Hebrews 6. Here's 4 commonly used.

1) Paul is talking to unconverted Jews that has been enlightened but turned back to Judaism.

2) Paul is talking Jewish believers to urge them towards Maturity, who's mengaling in Judaism, as did the Galatians.

3) Paul is talking to a mix of the 2 just mentioned 1 and 2.

4) He's talking about Jews loosing salvation.

Consider this verse you mentioned-

Hebrews 6:4. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

"IF" This verse means salvation, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO RENEW YOU AGAIN UNTO REPENTANCE. "" MEANING YOU HAVE ONE CHANCE IN A LIFETIME TO

GET IT RIIGHT!! ARE YOU ARE FOREVER LOST!! IT IS IMPOSSIBLE!!! To renew the broken commitment, MEANING ONCE YOU COMMIT ONE SIN YOU ARE LOST.

Which Dont fit in the light of these scriptures?

Jude 1:24-25. Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

2 Timothy 1:12. For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

John 10:28-29. And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Romans 8:38-39. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Hello S Spencer.

1) In short, yes, Peter is warning about false prophets who left the true faith and, in short, apostatized. But, the warning that Peter is giving, is to faithful believers, to not follow them and become rejected as they were. Notice.

2 Peter 2:3 "And through covetousness shall THEY (apostates) with feigned words make merchandise of YOU (true faithful believers): whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not."

The apostates want to make the faithful Christians into apostates too. Thus, the warning. Why? Because there is a real serious danger.

2) They were not just enlightened, they were true believers.

Hebrews 6:4 "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT,"

If you are made partakers of the Hold Spirit, you have received God's Holy Spirit and are a Christian. You have to safeguard that or God will take away his Holy Spirit.

Psalms 51:11 "Cast me not away from thy presence; and TAKE NOT YOUR HOLY SPIRIT FROM ME."

I concur with you, though, in that we can agree to disagree and move on.

Good day.

Hello S Spencer.

Thank you for your response.

I commend you for citing verses that clearly show that Paul is talking to actual believers. They were "Holy Brethren". They had believed in Jesus Christ and were very surely baptized in water. That would make them part of the Church.

However, very serious warnings are given to not lose faith and to not stop trusting in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Please take specific note that the Apostle Paul does not say "you" but "we". In other words, he includes "himself" in those warnings.

Hebrews 2:1 "Therefore WE ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which WE have heard, lest at any time WE should let them slip."

Hebrews 2:3 "How shall WE escape, if WE neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;"

Hebrews 3:12 "Take heed, BRETHREN, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of UNBELIEF, in DEPARTING from the living God."

Hebrews 3:14 "For WE (includes Paul) are made partakers of Christ, if WE HOLD the beginning of our confidence stedfast UNTO THE END;"

Hebrews 12:15-17 "Looking diligently lest any man FAIL OF THE GRACE OF GOD; lest any ROOT OF BITTERNESS SPRINGING UP trouble you, and thereby many be DEFILED; Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat SOLD his birthright. For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, HE WAS REJECTED: for he found NO PLACE OF REPENTANCE, though he sought it carefully with tears.

Hebrews 6:6 "If they shall FALL AWAY (apostatize), to renew them again unto REPENTANCE; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

2 Peter 2:20 "For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and OVERCOME, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning."

Overcome means definitely. No return.

Hello S Spencer.

Thank you for your thoughts.

Yes, that is what Hebrews 6:4-6 is indeed saying. A person who becomes a true Christian and remains one for years but who later decides, of his own free will, to fall away and no longer serve God and becomes a hater of God - and remains firmly in that state for the rest of his life - will no longer be able to be saved. There is no more forgiveness for them.

Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin WILFULLY after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

2 Peter 2:20 "For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and OVERCOME, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning."

There are 2 types of sins. The sins we make because of our imperfection - which can be forgiven - and the willful, rebellious sin that we chose to do because we no longer love God but have decided our our own free will to be against God. Notice this very carefully at

1 John 5:16-17 "If any man see his brother sin a sin which is NOT unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin NOT unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

John speaks of 2 sins. One is unto death and the other is not. Weaknesses due to our imperfect flesh, is not a sin unto death. But, wickedness not due to our imperfect flesh but due to a heart that has become evil by choice, is a sin unto death - the second death.

Yes, "all unrighteousness is sin" says John. Even if I just lust momentarily at a woman, I have committed a sin. However, sin can be forgiven - unless it is willful. Willful and persistent sin with no repentance is unto death and there remains to more sacrifice for that kind of sin.

I welcome your further thoughts.

Good day.

(Part 5)

So the writer of Hebrews encourages the believers to move past the foundation doctrines and elements of the things of the Lord, mainly because the people who stay in that area can either be saved or unsaved.

There's some that taste of the Holy Spirit, they partake of the Holy Spirit, they get the knowledge and enlightenment of the basic truths and foundations of the things of Christ, and they might even in their mind believe that it's true.

But he's showing them that moving on shows you're saved. He says right now you're dull of hearing, so I encourage you in your Spiritual growth to get your senses exercised by God's word. If not, you'll just drop out and it will just prove that you're not the real thing!

Hebrews 6:4-6 does not show that a believer can lose their salvation. It's talking about those who were following along and being enlightened to the truth but never taking the next step in surrendering their life to Christ. They turned and walked away because of what it would cost them to leave Judaism to claim Christ as their Messiah.

(Part 3)

Hebrews 6:5, "And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,"

All these tastes, it's like sampling. A non-believer can sit in with believers and receive the same ministry of God's Spirit to that group, even in their own lives, as to the truth of Christ. And then it says "And the powers of the world to come." They were actually there to participate.

I recall the ten lepers that approached Jesus and wanted their healing. So He healed the ten lepers and sent them on their way, and only one of them stopped and returned to worship the Lord, and the Lord turns to the disciples and says weren't there ten lepers?

Nine of them just took their healing and took off. Only one turned to worship Christ.

There are people who participate in the powers of God's Spirit moving in amongst His people, and they're not even saved.

And then Hebrews 6:6 says, "If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

Here's the literal translation from the Greek text. The King James says "if they shall fall away." There's no "if" in the Greek text. It's just after having fallen away. They've already done it.

It's after having fallen away. And you can see in all these things that he's listing, they are all past tense. It's something they used to do that they don't do anymore.

Verse 4 started off by saying it's impossible for these people. Verse 6 says to renew them again unto repentance; Impossible! Seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to open shame.

These are Hebrews and Jews who went back and denounced the whole thing and were back professing their unbelief, and hatred, and anger toward the Lord and they were doing it publically.

Dear brothers and sisters in Christ,

I would like to share my understanding of Hebrews 6:4-6 because there are many teachers that use this text to show that a believer can lose their salvation, not understanding that the writer of Hebrews is talking to people who have been listening and receiving the truth, and understanding the truth, but then ready to go back and not make that final surrender to Christ. They say that you can't be enlightened unless you're a Christian. And that is not true.

This may be a little lengthy, but I believe that when it comes to salvation, no words should be spared. I hope that you would take 5 or 10 minutes to read what I have to say here. That's all I ask.

(Part 1)

Hebrews 6:4 says, "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,"

The writer says first of all in verse 4, for it is impossible for those who were once enlightened. Notice past tense verbs. The word enlightened means to have your mind illuminated to the truth. And as I said, there are those who say that only believers can be enlightened.

Well, John tells us in John 1:9 that the light, who is Christ, enlightens every man coming into this world. Every person is enlightened to the truth.

Paul says in Romans Chapter 1, beginning at Verse 18 that no one has an excuse when standing before God, because even creation testifies to the very attributes of God.

In other words, the Holy Spirit uses creation as an initial enlightenment for every human being. That doesn't mean that every human being hears the gospel message.

I emphasize, and I'm not trying to belittle the gospel or its importance on preaching or teaching, but the gospel of John is presenting to us that the light of the world has come into this world, and the emphasis is the difference between light and darkness.

Hello, again Michael,

I can't agree that when someone truly believes in Christ that they automatically receive the Holy Spirit. Belief alone does not save anyone. James 2:19 seems to indicate that. I took a look at Acts 10:44 as you've asked. But also I have to look at Acts 10:43.

This is where the beauty of the Greek text comes in because it gives me a different perspective. Acts 10:43 in the KJV says, "To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins."

There are two things about this verse: The word believes is a present participle which means continuously believing. It never stops. Secondly, the term "in him" is the most common term for believing in Christ. It is EIS AUTON in the Greek text, and it means "into him," a very different meaning than just believing "in Him."

It is a word that expresses surrender so that whosoever continually believes and continually surrenders to Christ, will receive forgiveness of sins. Emphasis on continually. This shows who a saved person is. Their belief and surrender never end. There are a lot of people who believe in Jesus Christ but are void of His indwelling Spirit.

Again, with the branches being broken off, I have to say they were broken off because of unbelief. Gentiles were grafted in, and it says they likewise can be removed just like the Jews were. But this is not talking about a saved individual losing their salvation. A Gentile can also be a dead branch in the tree just like the branches

A branch can be in the vine and not produce fruit. It will be cut off. The branch that remains in the tree will produce fruit continuously because it is feeding off the life source of the tree or vine which is Christ. That branch will never be cut off.

I don't believe Hebrews 6:4 is referring to saved individuals, but to Jews who were following along but never surrendered their life to Christ, as Judas did for 3 years.

Thanks for the conversation.

Michael.

I errored on previous reply. I believe

Hebrews 6. is talking to believers, BUT not about SALVATION. If we can loose our salvation can we be restored? Every one sins, no one is perfect. Romans 7 ect..

Jesus is our advocate with the Father if we do sin. 1John 2:1. ect..

Visiting the text.

Hebrews 6:4-6. For it is ""IMPOSSIBLE" for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

IF THEY SHALL FALL AWAY, TO RENEW THEM AGAIN UNTO (REPENTANCE) seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

IF THIS VERSE IS TALKING ABOUT SALVATION THAT MEANS YOU GOT ONE CHANCE. "" FOR IT IS ( IMPOSSIBLE ) TO RENEW THEM AGAIN!! If you sin it's over!

Read on. NOTICE VERSE 9.

Hebrews 6:7-9. For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:

But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

9) But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and THINGS THAT ACCOMPANY SALVATION, though we thus speak.

The Entire Msg to the Hebrews is about maturity.

they was under persecution and was still mengaling in Judaism.

Fruit and gifts accompany salvation through the Holyspirit, Not Judaism.

Salvation and SANCTIFICATION is by the work of the spirit and is a GIFT "un Merritted."

This Way is called God's election.

Romans 9:11. (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, NOT OF WORKS, BUT OF HIM THAT CALLETH;)

2 Timothy 1:12. For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

God bless

Hello S Spencer,

1) When someone "truly" believes in Christ Jesus, he automatically receives the Holy Spirit (see Acts 10:44) and is attached to the vine, Jesus Christ. This is nicely explained in the parallel account of John 15:1-6 at:

Romans 11:19-21 "Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be GRAFFED IN. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and THOU STANDEST BY FAITH. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest HE ALSO SPARE NOT THEE.

Notice, the "gentile" believer, like a branch, is graffed into the olive tree because of his faith in Christ Jesus. But, Paul says to fear - why? Because God can "spare not thee" as he "spared not" the unbelieving Jews.

2) The apostle Peter was writing to faithful believing Christians. See 2 Peter 1:1. He is giving them a warning against false prophets. See 2 Peter 2:1. He specifically says about these ones that they "have forsaken the right way". See 2 Peter 2:15. So, at one time, they were on the right way. At 2 Peter 2:20, he says that they "had escaped the pollutions of the world" but, unfortunately, "they are again entangled therein". They have returned to the world.

Thus, they are likened to a dog who has vomited out his vomit and left it for good. But, then, he returns. Or, the sow (pig) who used to role in the mud. Then he leaves the mud and is cleansed. But, unfortunately, he then returns. In a similar way, these ones who believed in Christ Jesus and received the Holy Spirit and were cleansed of their old, sinful ways, have now returned to their sinful practices. Peter says "too bad for them". Jude says they have "died twice". See Jude 14.

3) As for Hebrews, Paul is speaking to believers.

Hebrews 6:4 "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST,". This happened when they believed. See again Acts 10:44.

I invite your further thoughts."

Hello Jesse.

Thank you for your comments.

1) When someone "truly" believes in Christ Jesus, he automatically receives the Holy Spirit (see Acts 10:44) and is attached to the vine, Jesus Christ. This is nicely explained in the parallel account at:

Romans 11:19-21 "Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be GRAFFED IN. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and THOU STANDEST BY FAITH. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest HE ALSO SPARE NOT THEE.

Notice, the "gentile" believer, like a branch, is graffed into the olive tree because of his faith in Christ Jesus. But, Paul says to fear - why? Because God can "spare not thee" as he "spared not" the unbelieving Jews.

2) The apostle Peter was writing to faithful believing Christians. See 2 Peter 1:1. He is giving them a warning against false prophets. See 2 Peter 2:1. He specifically says about these ones that they "have forsaken the right way". See 2 Peter 2:15. So, at one time, they were on the right way. At 2 Peter 2:20, he says that they "had escaped the pollutions of the world" but, unfortunately, "they are again entangled therein". They have returned to the world.

Thus, they are likened to a dog who has vomited out his vomit and left it for good. But, then, he returns. Or, the sow (pig) who used to role in the mud. Then he leaves the mud and is cleansed. But, unfortunately, he then returns. In a similar way, these ones who believed in Christ Jesus and received the Holy Spirit and were cleansed of their old, sinful ways, have now returned to their sinful practices. Peter says "too bad for them". Jude says they have "died twice". See Jude 14.

3) As for Hebrews, Paul is speaking to believers.

Hebrews 6:4 "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST,". This happened when they believed. See again Acts 10:44.

I invite your further thoughts.

Michael.

PG 2.

Hebrews 6:12-19. I Erred on page 2, "I meant unconditional covenant, not oath.' Here goes-

Gen.15;1-12.

Vs 6: And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

Vs 8:And he said, Lord GOD, whereby shall I know that I shall inherit it?

VSES. 9-12. And he said unto him, Take me an heifer of three years old, and a she goat of three years old, and a ram of three years old, and a turtledove, and a young pigeon.

And he took unto him all these, and divided them in the midst, and laid each piece one against another: but the birds divided he not.

And when the fowls came down upon the carcases, Abram drove them away.

And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him.

God put Abraham to sleep and entered the covenant alone. only God can break it. ISSAC WAS PROMISED!! AS WELL AS WE!

Galatians 4:28. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. 'Unconditional!

Vs 26-27:But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

LOOK AT THOSE UNDER THE LAW IN-

VS 25. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. MT SINAI IS A MT YOU COULD NOT TOUCH! ( COULD'NT KEEP ) THE LAW WAS GIVEN THERE.

GEN. 22 Abraham offered up his only begotten promised son, because he believed in the previous promise/covenant. AND KNEW GOD WOULD HAVE TO RAISE HIM FROM THE DEAD.

Hebrews 11:17-19 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

Of whom it was said, "That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

The crucifixion of Christ played out.

GB

Michael.

PG 1. "PAGES OUT OF ORDER' 3-1-2.

Hebrews 3:7-11.Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,

Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.

Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.

So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)

Israel had a hardened heart. Which is the condition to all men without the "NEW" heart given by the Lord when saved.

( Hebrews 4:2-3. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.)

( For we which have believed do enter into rest,) as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Jude 1:5. answers itself, " they believe not' ( Was not saved )

James 2:21&26.

21:Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

26:For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

James is speaking of works "AFTER" salvation not for salvation.

Philippians 1:6. Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Philippians 2:13. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. This is what James 2:21 is speaking of.

Hebrews 6:12-19, and James 2:21.

These are 2 seperate accounts of Abraham in Hebrews 6:12-16 and James 2:21-23.

"Hebrews the promise was Issac confirmed by an oath". Played out in Gen. 15:1-12.

James was "Abraham having faith in THAT promise". Played out in Gen. 22:1-14.

Hello S Spencer,

Regarding Hebrews 6:13-19, I would direct your attention specifically to verse 15.

Hebrews 6:15 "And so, AFTER HE HAD PATIENTLY ENDURED, he obtained the promise."

Compare that with Hebrews 6:12.

Hebrews 6:12 "That ye be not slothful, but followers of them WHO THROUGH FAITH AND PATIENCE inherit the promises."

James 2:21 "Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?"

What would have happened had Abraham developed a wicked heart and refused to obey God? What if Abraham had cursed God and returned to his original place of residence - the land of Ur? Would he have inherited the promises?

What happened to Israel when they became bad? Did they inherit the promised land? Were they (that generation) not all destroyed in the desert and did not enter the promised land?

Hebrews 3:10-11 "Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest."

Jude 1:5 "I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having SAVED the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward DESTROYED them that believed not."

1 Corinthians 10:5 "But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness."

God's promises are certain. They will never fail. They are, in fact, like an anchor. So we can absolutely trust God. However, for us to benefit from those promises, we must exercise faith in God - unwavering trust in obeying God and all that he asks of us.

James 2:26 "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD also."

2 Peter 1:10-11 "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election SURE: for IF ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Good day.

Hi Jesse,

The Bible warns many times that a person can lose their salvation. Here are a few places.

John 15:6 "If a man abide (remain) not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."

Romans 11:21 "For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee."

2 Peter 2:20-22 "For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Hebrews 6:4-6 "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Hebrews 10:26-29 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

I welcome your thoughts.

Good day.

Amen Jesse.

Great declaration of clear truth.

To go along with the truth you presented brings us back to Genesis to the "UNCONDITIONAL" promise God performed "ALONE" to Abraham 430 years before the law given.

Hebrews 6:13-19. For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,

Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee.

And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.

For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife.

Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:

That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil.

Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of PROMISE. Galatians 4:28.

Hey Adam,

Repenting and confessing are two different things. Confession is admitting you are a sinner( 1 John 1:8-9) but repentance, as I have stated earlier, is "to turn from something...." You say, "It is an unusual position to claim that repenting doesn't mean repenting of sins. In this context what else would someone be repenting of?" But looking at the bilbe, God repented more than anyone else. So if you are asking "..what else would someone be repenting of, if not sins" then I would ask you, did God sin so that He can repent? The problem is we associate repentance with " repenting of sins" and that's not the case. Even Hebrews says this:

Hebrews 6:1-3

"Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit."

Did the author say Repentance from sins? No! He said "repentance from dead works"... We cannot just add "...of your sins" in front of every "repent" word...

The Bible does not say devils believe so they will go to heaven. Romans 10:9 says - "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." I have never read anywhere where devils confessed with their mouths that God raised Christ from the dead, and even more so, devils cant get saved because it's to late for them - Jude 1:6 - Hitler, Stalin there is no evidence to suggest they got saved because of Matthew 7:14-20

Hi Rich. That's a good question & the answer is found in that chapter. If you read the whole chapter, you'll see from verse 1 that Peter is speaking about the false prophets & false teachers that would enter the Church - they would appear as 'normal' Christians but their objective would be to bring in their false doctrines & teaching & bring the Church to ruin. And Peter highlights some of their many sins & deceptions in several verses, especially verses 13-19.

Now there are always opportunities for apostates or reprobates to repent & turn back to the Lord & follow the true path, but often, these false teachers were so embedded in their false beliefs & sins that issued out from them, that they never found any need to change. And such were these infiltrators that would come into the Church. They certainly had knowledge of Christ & the holy Faith, but that knowledge kept them from salvation, from hearing the warnings of God's Spirit, & entrenched in their sins. So Peter says in verse 21: "For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them."

This chapter harmonizes with Hebrews 6:4-6, where the Hebrews writer also speaks of those who had received light, partaking of the Spirit's benefits & of the good Word, yet they ultimately turned their backs to God. The writer was referring particularly to those Jews (as the Letter title suggests) who after tasting of the good things of Christ, left it all to return back to Judaism. They weren't saved, just as those in Peter's letter, & so the Word is true that says, "By their fruits ye shall know them" ( Matthew 7:20). A person who is not "in Christ" & Christ in them will soon have his true motives & sins exposed & so Peter's warning to the Church to beware of such people who bring teaching inconsistent to what they were taught ( 2 Peter 1:4-8). May you be blessed as you study God's Word further, Rich.

PG 1.

Lets start with Hebrews 6:4-6 with the view you can loose your salvation.

4: For it is ""impossible"" for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5: And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6: If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

That sounds like they're saved right? Right.

So if you read that verse carefully with the mind you can loose your salvation "you got one shot at it!!" ( For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened....) ( If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance;...)

You can take this passage and say if you were saved and some how stumbled "a small lie, got angry, ect.." it is impossible to renew you to repentance!! your forever Lost!! Read it again with the view you can loose your salvation.

That does not sound right so now take the passage with the view you cant loose your salvation and say these people was not really saved, "The Calvinist view"

It seems they suffer the same fate! Whether professors or not 'they were once enlightened'.

It is "Impossible" ( for those who were once ""enlightened,"" and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance;...)

The unsaved premise seems to also fails. they also got one shot!

I believe the writer is writing to believers, he addresses them that way in Ch 3:1. "Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling",

I don't think this is talking about salvation at all, it don't say renew them again to salvation, it say repentance. The writer is writing to the Hebrews and urging them to maturity, the burden of the writer is not to return to Judaism. Legalism, them becoming fruitless

This is a repost to the 2 links that I pasted, Something went terribly wrong!!

Isaiah 32:12-13. They shall lament for the teats, for the pleasant fields, for the fruitful vine.

Upon the land of my people shall come up thorns and briers; yea, upon all the houses of joy in the joyous city:

"PARRELLELS WITH HEBREWS 6:8".

HERE'S THE 2ND

1 Corinthians 3:12-15 (KJV) Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.