Discuss Hebrews 8 Page 4

I think we're talking about the multitude of sins we committed every day before we were saved. If we weren't really saved, our nature hasn't changed (we're incapable of changing ourselves very much at all, maybe eating and exercise habits or other disciplines, but fundamental changes in the nature of our minds and hearts are God's work), and we're probably still clinging to sin in the darkness.

If we consider ourselves saved, but still wonder if it's okay to commit the sins in which we used to partake freely and which, frankly, the world only encourages, we have not actually received conviction and are not converted. Children of God don't want to sin, it breaks our hearts and makes us ashamed of the carnal nature, we hear other people cursing or witness violence between them and apologize to God because we can feel His grief. We see the flesh of the demonized dead exposed all around us like meat on grocery store shelves for public display and we turn away to give them the respect they don't know they should have for the bodies God gave them and to keep ourselves unpolluted by lustful or judgmental thoughts. If God hasn't spoken into our lives about His definition of right and wrong and about how He feels - or if we don't care about how He feels - it is no small wonder that we see merit in arguing over whether or not grace grants the liberty to sin. The bible says it doesn't, several times over, but we shouldn't need it to. Not if God is our father. We know whose child we are by the one we desire to emulate in our lives. There's no need to wonder, it is evident. We didn't make any of this up, there are only 2 sides to be on, and no gray areas in between. If our preference in life is toward sin, we are still children of the devil, and we should ask God with sincere hearts to deliver us from the evil one. We don't reluctantly submit our lives to Christ, we do it with overwhelming joy and gratitude. If we are reluctant, our nature hasn't changed, and we need saving.

Brother Spencer,

Yes,amen. Every believer who belongs to Christ will stand before the judgment seat (Bema) of Christ. At that judgment, we will be judged, not for heaven or hell, because Jesus already purchased our salvation. We will be judged to determine our reward. That which is of Christ, we will be rewarded for and that which is not of Him will burn. This judgment is separate from the Great White Throne judgment that takes place after the thousand-year reign of Christ.

From my understanding, when Christ comes for His church, the dead in Christ will rise first, and the we will be caught up with them to meet the Lord in the air. And then we will stand before the Bema Seat of Christ to receive our reward. The wicked dead will not be raised until the thousand year reign. They will stand before the Great White Throne judgment and will then be cast into the lake of fire (Hell)

Brother Jesse

Here we have "ONLY" two groups, one group works abide after testing by fire, and they received an award.

The others works burned up and they suffered loss but they themselves are saved.

No Mention of anyone going to Hell!

1 Corinthians 3:13-15. Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: BUT HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED; YET SO AS BY FIRE.

Amen Brother Jesse.

I believe it's widely held that the judgment seat is called the Bema seat throughout scripture in other places.

Paul was brought up to the judgment seat in Acts, That judgment seat is called the Bema seat.

Acts 18:12. And when Gallio was the deputy of Achaia, the Jews made insurrection with one accord against Paul, and brought him to the judgment seat,

Judgment seat is the same as Bema seat "Greek"

Judgment seat of Christ is the Bema seat of Christ in Greek as mentioned in

2 Corinthians 5:10. For we must all appear before the JUDGMENT SEAT OF CHRIST; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Greek:

Transliteration: bma

Pronunciation: bay'-ma

Definition: From the base of G939; a step that is foot breath; by implication a rostrum that is tribunal: - judgment-seat set [foot] on throne.

KJV Usage: judgment seat(10x), throne(1x), to set (one's) foot on(withG4128)(1x).

Occurs: 13

In verses: 12

Thank you Brother for all you do! You have been a blessing to many in sharing.

God bless.

Hello English sacha,

No, you have not offended me at all. Prior to posting an answer to a person's question, it is sometimes difficult for me to determine whether or not that the person asking the question is a "babe" in Christ or someone who has been studying the word for a while. When I read the question "Will we see our loved ones again in judgment," I had no way of knowing if this person has ever heard of the Bema Seat of Christ or not. That is why I asked which judgment they were speaking of, because there will be two separate future judgments.

I do realize that the KJV does not use the word Bema because it is a Greek word. But the KJV is a translation, and the original Greek text uses Bema. The translators translated Bema Seat of Christ into judgment seat of Christ in our English text. I am wondering if I am the only person here that has ever heard of the Bema Seat? Hopefully someone else has heard of it. I'm especially hoping that the person I responded to has heard of it, or at a bare minimum looked it up to make sure I was not just making words up that simply do not exist. It is a real word, not something I made up.

The word Bema is a biblical word. It comes from the original text, before the King James translation existed. There are no Greek words in our English bibles, but those words do exist, and Bema is one of those words. I probably should have stated that Bema Seat of Christ is the same as saying judgment seat of Christ. I did not mean to confuse you or cause anyone to search the entire bible looking for a Greek word that's not there.

Sometimes I just make an assumption that in our day and age, most people know how to do a Google search to look up words or biblical phrases and where they come from. I do that at times if there's something someone posts that I never heard of. I will be careful to state where the word comes from in my future posts. Thank you for pointing that out!

Adam By your reply you didn't read all my comments, and that's okay. God Bless

That's your choice, and I agree that quarreling should be avoided, but discussing the Bible for better understanding of God's word is profit and does give God the glory. Those who are trying to teach others on this discussion forum should have scriptures to back up their claims. God bless.

Adam Hi did you read my reply?

Hi Adam Brother with all due respect I have watched on this site where people have backed up there belief with scripture and still disagreed so there was no point. I can give all the scripture I know concerning what I stated and anyone else can say that's not what I believe, and that's there privilege. So my point is I won't argue because what's the profit or who gets the Glory. In His Service

Hi English sacha With me sister I don't get into it until the question is asked, I personally like the indepth research but my bottom line is share the Love of God that was given through Jesus Christ and let God do the rest. Or Let the Word do the Work. In His Service

Hello Rick, I think if someone makes a statement lacking Bible support that it's fair to ask questions about it on a social Bible discussion page. I don't know why you interpret that as a 'fight'. It sounds like you backed off from the claim that we won't be punished for any sin we commit, even intentionally. That is what I am deeply questioning and asking: is that actually true? God bless...

Thanks for the explanation Rick . Please don't be offended , I just feel that we all need to be aware that some people are reading the Bible for the very first time , as I'm sure you already know there's a lot to take in ,not just the first time around , I like to try to stick with the English and keep it as simple as possible for the sake of the babes . People can be easily discouraged if they start to feel that it's all a bit complex and beyond their understanding . Hope you get where I'm coming from .

Hi Adam The statements I made you have taken entirely out of context your coming across like to fight and I don't do that with Gods Word. We get born again, we are perfect in Gods eyes spiritually, the flesh different ball game. Then we have to renew our minds to Gods Word that's a lifetime.

Those so called christians who think or believe they can do whatever they want have believed a great lie. What you sow is still what you reap. Perhaps this cleared some things up. We still all sin and fall short of the Glory of God it's when you start thinking its not a big deal is when your in hot water. In His Service

Hello Rick, I'd like to politely challenge one of your statements. Since you said we won't be punished for any sins does that mean I can enjoy committing sins tonight without any punishment? Strip club, drugs, fornication, lying, stealing, cheating, all isn't counted and all are ok?

And I can tell all my Christian friends to go with me and do the same? Does Jesus cover intentional sin, and even blasphemy? And if all believers are already forgiven, does that mean we no longer need to confess and ask for forgiveness of sins and that we shouldn't even try to avoid sin? Scriptural support? And how else should I interpret verses like Hebrews 10:26?

God bless...

Hi English Sasha Not getting intellectual here but to explain, the word bema is the original word used for judgement seat, one specific example Romans 14:10 the judgment seat of Christ is the bema where we will stand to get rewarded for what we did for God after we were born again.

We will not be punished for any sins because Christ has paid for those. The original languages used changes the specific meaning of the english translation depending on the context of where the word is used. You can find this information on line in a concordance. Hope this helps In His Service

Benma seat. ? I don't know this phrase , please give references . If it's not from the Bible it will confuse me and I'm not a babe so imagine how confused a babe might be by terms that are not biblical on a Bible site . Please forgive me for this but I honestly believe that giving things from the Bible names that are not biblical , in other words man made , can confuse people , it can make them feel uninformed . Doesn't bother me cos I know bema isn't biblical but others may not and waste time trying to find that word in the Bible when it isn't there . Sorry if I offended you , that's not my intention .

Yes , you most certainly will, an well before the great white throne judgement,.. they'll be a time of teaching,.. the Lords day ,.. the millennium

Erie Page Jr.,

Which judgment are you referring to? Are you referring to the Bema Seat judgment for believers (Pre-Millennium), or the Great White Throne judgment for non-believers (Post Millennium)?

Will we see our love ones again in judgement

Why there are people who refused to received the mark of the beast? It is because they just followed on what stated in revelation 18:4, thus; they were no longer involved or connected in any religious,political,and commercial organizations who imposes systems that manipulated and exploited humankind.Why they followed revelation 18:4? It is because almighty god shows mercy on them.( romans 9;15,16,18) and he wrotes to them his laws on their heart and mind ( hebrews 8:10,11) and he separated them from those who have mark of the beast ( romans 11:4).

Hello Giannis. I understand that the NT authors & Septuagint translators found that 'diatheke' was the best word that could be used when translating or referring from the Hebrew 'berith' (covenant). Diatheke was preferred over 'syntheke', since this word (syntheke) conveyed more of an agreement between equal partners, whereas 'diatheke' meant a covenant between a superior & a subordinate. And also to note, even as you mentioned, that a testament cannot be changed after the death of the testator, however, it can be changed while the testator is alive, for various reasons. Whereas a covenant cannot be changed at all while it is in force: when God makes a covenant with His people, He can punish them for breaking the covenant, but He never cancels the covenant promises He has made. However, Hebrews 8:6-13, speaks of Jesus being the "mediator of a better covenant" (as declared in Jeremiah 31:31-34), where the old was abrogated (i.e. it served its purpose & its time limit), ushering the new covenant through "the blood of the everlasting covenant" ( Hebrews 13:20).

So, the way I see it, even though the Greek rendering is correct as "testament", it would allow, in biblical terms, for its use as 'Covenant' when translated & referred from the Hebrew word & meaning, as any another Greek word (even symfono?) would be unsuitable. As the New Testament came into force with the death of the testator ( Hebrews 9:16,17), it was still based on the first Covenant that God made with His people which is now made new through His Son.

Why do all. the English translations, including KJV's, translate the greek word "diatheke " () as "covenant" but not as "testament" which is the right translation? All modern greek translations without any exception use the word testament ( a person's will) and with that meaning all greek theologists and preachers from all sort of churches, greek orhodox, catholics, evagelical, pentecostal use it here in Greece. I also made a search in Wikipedia, Whereas in the greek version it uses the word testament, in the English one it uses the word covenant. It is a testament, not a covenant. An agreement can always change agterwards, a testament never changes after a person's death. In an agreement two persons try to find common terms to settle down, in a testament the person who writes his/her will puts down his own terms for the one who gets the heritage. So Gods testament never changes, there won't be any new one, and the terms of the heritage, that is the Heaven, come from God himself and have nothing to do with people.

1 Corinthians 15:24

"Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power."

1 Corinthians 15:25

"For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet."

Yahawah bahasham Yahawashi is going to destroy these earthly governments. The so called ruling elites are finished. There will be no hiding place for the wicked. No doubt about it.

17 nations (for the Most High Yahawah only created 18 nations) are going into slavery for 1000 years for causing untold destruction and brutality to the LORD's chosen people: The Israelites. Then the Edomites are going to be destroyed according to the Book of Obadiah, Jeremiah 49 and Ezekiel 25 just a few examples to support the prophecy.

Kingdom of Heaven is the inheritance of the Israelites. Read Hebrews 8:8 the new covenant is only for the House of Israel 12 tribes.

Hebrews 8:7

"For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second."

Hebrews 8:8

"For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:"

John 8:32

"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

First King of Righteousness, and After That King of Peace

Charles Haddon Spurgeon February 3, 1884

Scripture: Hebrews 7:2

From: Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit Volume 30

I recently refer to Michelangelo and his works ,the pieta, along with others including Melchizedek and Abram returning and the giving and receiving. Your comments go far beyond what are just the beginning of what is in store for those that love Him! Thank you for your work.

Hebrews 8:5 = GOD commanded Moses to construct the Old Testament Tabernacle as the instrument of HIS presenting HIM-SELF to Israel ( Exo. 25:22; cp. 30:6 & 36):

"There I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the Mercy Seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the Ark of the Testimony, of all things which I will give thee in Commandment unto the children of Israel."

This verse ( Heb. 8:5) records three terms which demonstrates the purpose and value of the Old Testament Levitical Priesthood and of the Tabernacle that GOD commanded Moses to replicate on earth to provide a comprehensive perspective "figure" ( Heb. 9:9) of that which is "of Heavenly Things".

1st, they served as "the example of Heavenly Things", meaning an exact copy or reproduction of the original and "True Tabernacle, which The LORD pitched, and not man" (v.2). Compare the terms "figure", "pat-tern", and "fashion" in the following references: Exodus 26:30; 27:8; Numbers 8:4; Acts 7:44; and Hebrews 9:9;

2nd, they served as a "shadow of Heavenly Things", meaning it only typified, symbolized, represented, and point-ed to the Heavenly Tabernacle. A literal shadow is intangible which reveals simply the outline or profile of the actual object. The earthly Tabernacle simply revealed a "a figure for the time then present."

By design, the example demonstrates the purpose and value of the original. This example is not a counterfeit, but rather a replication of the actual Heavenly Tabernacle which speaks of the saints dwelling in the very Presence of CHRIST ( Rev. 13:6; 15:5; 21:3).

3rd, they served as GOD's earthly "pattern" which was enforced only temporarily until CHRIST established HIS "more Excellent Ministry" (v.6) as exclaimed in Hebrews 10:9-12.

The 70 th Week

Part 3

Jesus confirmed the last 3.5 years through His apostles ending when Stephen was killed, Paul was converted, Peter had his dream the conformation to Judah ended and the gospel was sent to the Gentiles. This fulfills the 70=weeks 490/483 years

We have been told to study, we are told to test the spirits, trust our teacher the Holy Spirit and pray. These are the six things that were determined on Judah and the holy city Jerusalem, a few verses that may help see if this has been fulfilled by Jesus.

1. To finish the transgression ( Isaiah 53:5, 8) ( Isaiah 53:11) ( Hebrews 9:15-18)

2. To make an end of sins ( Matthew 1:21) ( Hebrews 10:8-11) ( John 1:29) ( 1 Corinthians 15:3)

( 1 John 3:5) ( Psalm 32) ( Romans 8:3)

3. To make reconciliation for iniquity ( Colossians 1:20-22) ( Isaiah 53:6) ( Isaiah 53:11) ( Ephesians 2:16) ( Titus 2:14) ( 2 Corinthians 5:18-19)

4. To bring in everlasting righteousness ( Romans 5:17-21) ( Romans 3:21-26) ( 1Peter 2:24)

( 2 Corinthians 5:21) ( Isaiah 61:10-11)

5. To seal up vision and prophecy ( Daniel 9:23) ( John 6:27) ( Mark 1:14-15) ( Acts 3:18)

( John 5:36-40) ( Matthew 11:11-15)

6. To anoint the most holy ( Hebrews 8:1-12) ( Hebrews 9:6-14)

The 70 th week has been used along with other Bible verses to paint a fantastic picture of end times. The pre, mid, or post rapture of the Church, an antichrist, 7-year tribulation, 3.5-year covenant with Israel, a third temple, abomination of desolation, 3.5 years great tribulation after breaking covenant, and more. Many of these teachings started in the late 1600s. I hope this helps, if this prophecy has been fulfilled, it will show the falsehoods of these teachings because without using part of the 70 weeks prophecy given to Daniel, these teachings will fall apart.

Acts.3:18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

RLW

Hello Dianne. One could ask your question in the opposite way: why didn't Paul admonish & discipline the NT Church for not obeying the 4th Commandment? I can't ever recall reading about that happening. I say this assuming you believe that the Church did worship on the First day of the Week; some Christians today believe that the NT Church still held onto a Sabbath worship.

Also, I could ask: do you see any reason between Jesus & the Jewish people observing the 4th Commandment as a day of rest & attending to religious duties, & then a sudden switch in worship times & styles, post crucifixion & resurrection?

And a further related question, seeing this is question about the Law: did not Paul himself write, in 2 Corinthians 3:6-11, concerning the New Testament (Covenant), that the Spirit of this Testament brought life to all unlike the Letter of the Law which only brought death? That was the purpose of the Law: to show the Jews God's Standards of behaviour & their inability to fully attain to it. Even though the Glory of the Law was tremendous, how much more is the Glory of the Spirit's Ministry. And that which was once glorious, God had chosen to do away with, so that the Glory of the New Covenant energized by the Life-giving Spirit, would excel in Glory. Here, Paul is showing the incompatibility between the Law which was given on tables of stone, to the Law of the Spirit, which is written upon the tables of our hearts; & specifically applied & written to believing Jews ( Hebrews 8:7-13).

Sadly, the Old Testament Law today is still called upon as a measure of one's obedience to the Lord. And sadder still, when that 'obedience' is used against other Christians who choose to observe the 1st Day of the Week as their day of worship (& maybe rest). Let us not judge one another, but that "every man be persuaded (convinced, believing) in his own mind".

Hi Peter,

I very much agree with you that all souls return to God. Who gave us our spirit as in Ecclesiastes 12:7.

Though as I believe Jesus Christ is at the right hand of God and on the Throne of God in Heaven. As Acts 7:55, Colossians 3:1-4, Hebrews 8:1, Revelation 3:21, Revelation 21:22-23, etc.

I believe I will see, and be with, Jesus Christ, God our Father, and our whole family in Heaven.

God Bless. Have a wonderful day!

For any who are looking at theories on how it ends. There is a fantastic picture that has been painted and taught since the early 1800s and is taken from Daniel 9:27 to create the last week (7 years). The entire theory and all that is taught that will happen hinges on taking the last week/7 years from this 70-week prophecy.

This prophecy was determined on Daniel's people (house of Israel) and the holy city (Jerusalem).

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

If Jesus fulfilled what was determined in this prophecy, does that make this entire theory and all that is taught in this theory untrue?

How will it change the picture if the 70th week in the book of Daniel has been fulfilled?

What is our blessed hope?

We have been told to study, trust our teacher the Holy Spirit and pray.

These are the six things that were determined, and a few verses that may help your study.

1. To finish the transgression ( Isaiah 53:5, 8) ( Isaiah 53:11) ( Hebrews 9:15-18)

2. To make an end of sins ( Matthew 1:21) ( Hebrews 10:8-11) ( John 1:29) ( 1 Corinthians 15:3)

( 1 John 3:5) ( Psalm 32) ( Romans 8:3)

3. To make reconciliation for iniquity ( Colossians 1:20-22) ( Isaiah 53:6) ( Isaiah 53:11) ( Ephesians 2:16) ( Titus 2:14) ( 2 Corinthians 5:18-19)

4. To bring in everlasting righteousness ( Romans 5:17-21) ( Romans 3:21-26) ( 1Peter 2:24)

( 2 Corinthians 5:21) ( Isaiah 61:10-11)

5. To seal up vision and prophecy ( Daniel 9:23) ( John 6:27) ( Mark 1:14-15) ( Acts 3:18)

( John 5:36-40) ( Matthew 11:11-15)

6. To anoint the most holy ( Hebrews 8:1-12) ( Hebrews 9:6-14)

RLW