Discuss Hebrews 9 Page 4

Soul sleep; the big lie.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 to the end of the chapter and 1 Thessalonians 5:10 make it clear; along with other verses that when the body sleeps; the spirit lives on. The question is; of course if His Spirit "testifies with our spirit ( Romans 8:16) that we are God's children." If not; then truly we are spiritually "dead" as it were; which means absent from the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and hence forever trapped in our sinful nature. He has put "eternity in the hearts of men" ( Ecclesiastes 3:11). Hebrews 9:27 also makes it pretty clear that we face judgment after death. That will determine where we spend the interim period through the Millennial reign and make the "first resurrection" ( Rev. 20:6) or remains until the Great White Throne judgment. There are; apparently phases to the firstfruits which Christ Himself initiated; then some who came out of their graves AFTER the Resurrection; then those alive at His coming when the saints are Resurrected and finally the Resurrection of those who were martyred in the Tribulation. I will leave this detailed eschatology to other posts.

I already stated elsewhere where the word "qeber" is referring to the bodily state of "sleep" or death in the grave; and when "sheol" the land of the souls of all in the O.T. (now only just for the wicked) exists. Now; to be "absent from the body is present with the Lord ( 2 Cor. 5:6). The bigger question is WHY people want to hold to this "soul sleep" or nonexistence mentality. Part of it can be not dividing the Word properly ( 1 Tim. 2:15); or 2 Peter 3:16 where unstable people twist scripture to their own destruction. If someone knows they are in sin; and remains unrepentant in their hearts it is easy to follow this mindset so that there can be space before judgment. ( Ecclesiastes 8:11; Psalm 73:17). He is not the God of the dead but the living ( Mark 12:27). Hence; we are already "seated in heavenly places" ( Ephesians 2:6).

Sleep:

Daniel 12:2

Job 14:12

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

1 Corinthians 15:18-20

Matthew 9:24

Hello, the Bible says when we die we will enter a state to await Jesus's return then will face judgment all together. It's called judgment day. Matthew 12:36, Hebrews 9:27. There's no verse saying people get to skip this. There's no verse saying that all people go to heaven instantly, only to later travel back to earth into your body, then meet Jesus in the air, then to only go back to judgment after you've already been in heaven. It's not scriptural or logical and seems to require misinterpreting the following 2 verses, by cherry picking and broadly interpreting it as if it automatically represents all people and all circumstances.

"absent with body present with Lord" isn't in the Bible. That phrase has been changed from 2 Corinthians 5:8 where Paul said he would "rather" be absent from the body, and present with the Lord. He didn't say in 100% of all cases when people die that 100% of the time they will be "immediately" with the Lord, regardless. Paul was only stating his preference. It doesn't mean Hitler and other mass murderers are with the Lord right now, simply because of this one verse.

Second, people often quote the verse about the man on the cross that Jesus said would be in "paradise" on that day as support. But Jesus didn't say 100% of all people, from this moment onward will 100% go to heaven, and zero people going to hell including Hitler? Jesus has the power to make exceptions and take people to heaven, but the word paradise is not necessarily the same as heaven. Some believe this word means a waiting area for the dead.

Lastly, these are only 2 verses requiring creative interpretation, but at least 5 verses say we'll be sleeping are straightforward. Which is true? Bible says all will be judged, not just some. So, believing people go immediately to heaven without waiting on the Lord, and skipping judgment doesn't align with the other scripture either.

Star,

Luke 24:47 does not say water baptism is for the remission of sin. It says repentance and remission of sin should be preached. The word "for" is not found, neither is water baptism unless you add it. What Jesus said in Matthew 26:28 would be correct teaching on remission of sin. Jesus does not say that water baptism is for the remission of sins, but the blood He shed is for remission. Water cannot remove sin. Only the blood of Jesus Christ can.

In Acts 2:38, Peter said to Repent! The word repent means make a decision for change. It also carries with it the understanding that you can't change yourself. You're just making the decision for change and you're surrendering your life to Christ for Him to make the change. Repent and be baptized every one of you, (upon the basis of the name of Jesus Christ) for the remission of sins. Please notice that repent comes first. And the promise is that you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Repent, surrender to Christ, identify with Him, and He will pour out His Spirit upon you and save you. Water baptism does not save. Repentance and surrendering to Christ does. It's when Jesus baptizes us with His Spirit. That's what saves a person, not water baptism.

If, as you say, "Water baptism saves you as in for the "remission of sins". Your previous sins are washed, forgiven," why then did Jesus have to come and shed His blood on the cross? What was that for? I mean if water baptism is for the remission of sin, why did He have to shed His blood?

It says in Hebrews 9:22, "And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and WITHOUT SHEDDING OF BLOOD IS NO REMISSION." But you say water baptism is for the remission of sin?

You also say that "Instead of arguing this & that, why not go to the Lord in prayer & seek this truth. The Lord will always show us the way. Ask for revelation." That's fair advice. But I don't think the Lord revealed to you that water baptism is for the remission of sin. Only the blood He shed!

Thanks GiGi for the response. I agree with you and Chris in regard to Jesus not carrying the sin nature, but was tempted and could have sinned. The scripture Hebrews 4:15 "For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin" wouldn't have much relevance if He couldn't have sinned anyway. I appreciate the contrast between the old and new testament to relay the power available to the believer because he offered himself "without spot". Hebrews 9:13,14 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Jesus was the "first of the firstfruits" i.e. the first to be resurrected into a glorified; eternal body. It is interesting to note; that He still bears the scars from the crucifixion; which will make Him unique in heaven having any marks like that. The other resurrections such as Lazarus were only temporary still in the old bodies. This fits in with the principle of Hebrews 9:27. It would appear that at least Elijah although taken by God since He must return in the Tribulation to die that He is protected but not yet in his eternal body. Enoch we don't know about; although keeping with man destined to die once then face the judgment; and Christ being the first of the firstfruits; we could easily assume that he is the 2nd witness who must die in the Tribulation.

Note that there were many that came out of their graves AFTER Christ rose; this would be a preliminary firstfruits to our resurrection and/or rapture to come as well as others in the Tribulation. Christ is our head; hence the rest of the Body is to follow.

It is clear that after these 144,000 are marked; that they are not affected by the remaining seal and trumpet judgments before they are taken up to heaven. ( Rev. 14:1). Since they are standing on Mt. Sion (the spiritual true Mt. Zion in heaven) as opposed to the martyrs under the throne apparently awaiting resurrection bodies ( Rev. 6:9-11) it would appear that they are as the scripture indicates taken to heaven as "redeemed" firstfruits ( Rev. 14:2-4). So therefore; it appears that they are raptured; as firstfruits would include O.T. saints (some of which came out of the grave after the Resurrection of Christ; and the church possibly also including the rest of the godly O.T. saints at different intervals). It would certainly appear with their sealing that it could encompass not dying but I'm not sure that can be proven from that verse. In theory; it is even possible that they could be like the 2 prophets who die and are resurrected about the same time (that could I suppose mean they are all killed at one time and subsequently resurrected rather than raptured). That's the only possibility I see.

It is rather controversial the timing of the O.T. saints (which in the book of Daniel seems to occur around the midpoint of the Trib) and that of the whole true believing church (which occurs in conjunction and immediately preceeding the Rapture as I see it). Again; we do have Enoch and Elijah who were taken out of this world; although it appears Elijah has been preserved and never given a Resurrected Body; and perhaps if Enoch is the second witness according to the Hebrews 9:27 principle he also was preserved; but possibly he was raptured. And the saints coming out of the graves was the beginning of a series of events between the Resurrection (Christ being first of firstfruits) and the rest of the firstfruits such as the 144,000.

That's my best take on it; remember most will die in the Trib; a few will survive physically until and through the 1000 years.

Hello Gary,

I concur with Jesse.

The Scriptures say that God is everlasting and eternal, without beginning nor being created and will never cease to exist. Life and existence belong wholly to Him. They do not exist outside of God, meaning He did not acquire them from anything outside of Himself. He always has possessed these.

Genesis 21:33 (Eternal)

Isaiah 63:16 (Everlasting)

Isaiah 26:4 (Rock eternal)

Jeremiah 10:10 (the living God, the Eternal King)

Romans 16:26 (Eternal God)

1Tim 1:17 (unto the King eternal immortal)

Hebrews 9:14 (eternal Spirit)

1John 5:20 (He is the true God and Eternal life)

Ps. 93>2 (You are from all eternity)

Deuteronomy 33:27 (Eternal)

1 Chronicles 16:36 (the God of Irael, from everlasting to everlasting)

Nehemiah 9:5 (who is from everlasting to everlasting)

Isaiah 9:6 (Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace)

Isaiah 40:28 (The Lord is the Everlasting God)

Habakkuk 1:12, (O lord, are You not rom everlasting?)

Isaiah 57:15 (the Lofty One, who lives forever

Hope these help.

Giannis,

(Part 2)

I just wanted to touch on Luke 3:3, and also respond to your comment telling me to "Please pay attention to that "for the remission of sins". If John's baptism was for the remission of sins, how do some of us believe that the christian baptism is not necassary for salvation?"

So, as you asked, I am focusing on the part that says "for the remission of sins," and I know that John's baptism was a baptism of repentance for the Jews, and that John was water baptizing these Jews. However, water baptism was not for the remission of sin because no amount of water can wash away or remit sin.

It tells us in Hebrews 9:22 that without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin. When John baptized, there was no blood shed, therefore, there could not have been any remission of sin. The Jews would go down to the Sea of Galilee or the Jordan River every year and get water baptized, but that was not for the remission of sin. If John's baptism (Water) was for the remission of sin, why would they get water baptized every year?

You ask: "how do some of us believe that the christian baptism is not necassary for salvation?" I cannot answer for others, but my answer would be that Christian baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation. But John's baptism (Water baptism) was not Christian baptism. It was a baptism of repentance for the Jews. In order for their sins to be remitted, they needed to repent, turn away from Judaism, and surrender their lives to Christ as their Messiah. Submitting to water baptism would not remit their sin.

You mentioned that "John's baptism was for repenting and spiritual cleansing," but where in scripture does it tell us that John's baptism was for spiritual cleansing? All I see is that John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. It says nothing about spiritual cleansing? So my understanding is that water baptism does not cleanse us spiritually. Being baptized by God's Spirit is what cleanses us. I hope we can agree on that?

Sister Barbara:

Is she mixed up:

Colossians 1:27 ...this mystery ..... CHRIST IN YOU ....

Christ CAME THE SECOND TIME at pentecost; in SPIRIT, as the Holy Ghost.

Hebrews 9:28 So, Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many (first coming, as flesh), and unto them that look for him (as a thief in the night) he shall appear the SECOND TIME (unseen like a thief, as the Holy Ghost) without SIN UNTO SALVATION.

Philippians 2:13 For it is GOD (the life of the body) that WORKETH in you (his body) both TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.

Revelation 20:6 Blesses and HOLY (Christ in you) is he (the body of Christ) that hath part in the FIRST RESURRECTION ..

John 11:25 ....I am THE RESURRECTION, and the LIFE, he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall HE LIVE.

CHRIST IN YOU.

1 John 2:27 The anointing (THE LIFE) in you ....... will teach you ALL THINGS .......

Colossians 3:3 For ye are DEAD, and your LIFE is HID with Christ in God.

Christ blood COVERS our sins, to REPENT means to change your way of thinking, or your beliefs.

It takes lots of studying God's word and lots of repenting in the way, and things, we believe.

God Bless you.

The eighth king will through his mortal head wound will appear to die and appear to be Resurrected. This can be seen in Rev. 13:3 and Zech 11:17. The power of this appears to be from the entity Apollyon shown in the 5th Trumpet ( Rev. 9:11). Thus; he will have the power of the Devil which ultimately is because of God's authority allowing that short space of rulership; but Antichrist is indwelled with the King of the Abyss.

Remember that there are 10 Kings that rule; and 3 are subdued. ( Daniel 7:24). Thus; we see the "little horn" coming out from what was part of the Grecian empire; broken up into 4 parts earlier. Somehow; he is associated with the other kings; likely from the same region. That appears to be a conlomorate beast; with the lion (Babylon); bear (Media/Persian); leopard (Greece) and the 4th one (Rome). Some would argue the more modern designation of England and the USA (as the "young lions of Tarshish) in Ezekiel 38:13; then Russia being the bear. Nonetheless; the last kingdom has characteristics and likely geographical intersections of the approximate boundaries of these ancient kingdoms; and many say it is likely a Mediterranean mainly Muslim confederacy that would help to fulful such prophecies as Psalm 83; Ezekiel 38 and others.

Any theory that the Son of Perdition is Judas Iscariot is fairly well knocked out by Hebrews 9:27. He will undoubtably be worshipped and the mark brought about in its finality after this event ( Rev. 13:4). Since the little horn is associated with Greece; and Apollo is named in the Greek language it is possible this entity that energized Alexander the Great will be the force indwelling Antichrist. No doubt it is being held back today until he who holds it back is taken out of the way.

Well; I am fairly safe to assume based on the end of Malachi that Elijah will come before the "great and dreadful day of the Lord" ( Malachi 4:5). In John the Baptist; Jesus stated that he had come which signifies a type of ministry of repentance in the same spirit; as it were. One could rely on Hebrews 9:27 in stating that man is destined to once die then face the Judgment to say that the only other person translated and missing death was Enoch. Hence; the other witness to come and die in the end times.

There are disputes apparently in the angelic realm about the burial of Moses as seen in the Book of Jude. It seems clear; however that he was buried by God; being told DIRECTLY that he would die there just short of physically entering into the land of Promise.

He did talk as the other member present during the Transfiguration; but there is no scriptural proof that somehow Moses escaped death. Others are seen; such as John the Revelator who Jesus merely said "if he is to remain alive until I come what is that to you" ( John 21:22 loosely translated).

In any case; I hope this doesn't end up being a contentious debate. The power given by God to these witnesses will attempt to be mimiced by the False Prophet bringing "fire down from heaven" and also the mark of God's people in Rev. 7 on the 144,000 and undoubtably protecting the 2 Prophets will also be copied with the Beast's mark. Signs and wonders will truly be present; there will be no atheists and lukewarm believers at last.

Agape. Rich P

Golden candlestick: Zechariah 4:2-6, Proverbs 20:27,

Exodus 25:31,32, placement, Exodus 26:35, Leviticus 24:4, Hebrews 9:1-28,

Jeremiah 52:19,

Matthew 5:14-16,

Revelation 1:12-20, Revelation 2:1-5, Revelation 11:3-4, Revelation 22,

Hopefully these are helpful in your study

First of all; Hebrews 9:28 is the only verse I know which mentions Christ coming with the specific words "second time" where it seems there to indicate coming for the saints (i.e. Resurrection and Rapture). When we look at 2 Peter 3:10-12; we see the "Day of the Lord" as an abbreviated framework; apparently stretching from the onset in the beginning of the Tribulation through the Millennium period and to the day the "elements are melted with great heat." (the new heaven and new earth established). Thus; it is apparent that there are different phases to the "Second Coming" which would make more than one event to be encapsulated in that whole period of time. 1 Cor. 15:20 shows this application in regard to the "firstfruits." Christ was the first part of the "Body" of Christ to be Resurrected; and some apparently came out of their graves at that time. Then there are those saints of the N.T. and the O.T. as well as the 144,000 given this designation as well in Revelation.

The trumpet sound may or may not be recognized by those who remain on the earth. The resurrection of the saints; however will be undeniable. Once the "restrainer" in 2 Thess. 2:6 is removed (i.e. the Spirit as is currently operating in the church age of grace); then the series of events occurs until Christ PHYSICALLY returns to defeat Antichrist and split open the Mount of Olives (see Revelation 19; Zech. 14:4). He is seen even as soon as the 6th Seal Judgment; with victory being declared as a "done deal" as well as His wrath being evident well before the end of the 7 years.

It would seem that at the end of the Millennium; the heavenly city descends and essentially God the Father comes down in 1 Cor. 15:24-28 after the Son rules on earth in the 1000 year reign. So in a sense that is the "1st coming of the Father" to earth.

There are evidently Resurrections in the Tribulation of the 2 witnesses; perhaps others. At the end a few are still physically alive. Only one Rapture.

Douglas Borchard,

This prophecy gives the precise time of the first coming of the Messiah. You will receive different understandings of this, it is a study that will take much time. this is just a little information you may use to help your study.

Many put the last week of this prophecy at the end times. It is used for the 7 years of tribulation, a peace treaty with the antichrist (he in verse 27) for 3 1/2 years then 3 years of great tribulation with the taking of the church somewhere between (pre, mid, post).

"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, (70 weeks, 70 x 7 = 490 solar years or 483 prophetic years) on the house of Israel (Daniel's people) and the holy city (Jerusalem). It started from "the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem", make a note, that the rebuilding of the temple is not in this prophecy.

Here are a few verses that may help your study and if this prophecy has been fulfilled or not.

1. To finish the transgression Isaiah 53:5, 8 Isaiah 53:11 Hebrews 9:15-18

2. To make an end of sins Matthew 1:21 Hebrews 10:8-11 John 1:29 1 Corinthians 15:3

1 John 3:5 Psalm 32 Romans 8:3

3. To make reconciliation for iniquity Colossians 1:20-22 Isaiah 53:6 Isaiah 53:11 Ephesians 2:16 ( Titus 2:14 2 Corinthians 5:18-19

4. To bring in everlasting righteousness Romans 5:17-21 Romans 3:21-26 1Peter 2:24

2 Corinthians 5:21 Isaiah 61:10-11

5. To seal up vision and prophecy Daniel 9:23 John 6:27 Mark 1:14-15 Acts 3:18

John 5:36-40 Matthew 11:11-15

6. To anoint the most holy Hebrews 8:1-12 Hebrews 9:6-14

The six things that were determined on Daniel's people and the holy city in this 70-week prophecy; did the Messiah/Jesus fulfill?

God bless,

RLW

The earlier comment would be true in regard of course to the two witnesses who the whole world sees dying and being resurrected. It is fairly clear that even in hades in the past communication existed between individuals (Lazarus and the rich man); and such events are also seen in the Transfiguration and indeed throughout Revelation where the saints of God are asking "how long" when still in a spirit form under the altar. There is also some time element here; eventually even those in hell will all come out of their graves for the "Great White Throne Judgment" and the saints of God of course are Raptured/Resurrected before that. (although some eschatologies think it happens all at once at that time).

We could; of course look to many "near death" and death documentaries. We can't validate the theological aspects of all types of experiences as true but there is a rather uniform description of having vision of all things around them (360 degree aspect) in many accounts. Physically; of course those who are still physically alive at His return will see Him come (as lightning goes from the east to the west). ( Matthew 24:27). We also have Hebrews 9:27; as well as other verses showing that we all stand before God immediately after death ( 2 Cor. 5:6 also). We have all tribes mourning when He comes back to earth ( Zechariah 12:12).

There seem to be some verses saying that places that have neither heard of his fame or seen His glory ( Isaiah 66:20) will do so and that implies during the Millennial reign (according to my eschatological view). So there may be a process until all see Him at least those still alive physically when He comes. Nonetheless; God is beyond time and sees all things in that perspective.

(Also God created all the physical aspects of creation so certainly rules over it and can supercede things as all the miracles TRULY of God attest).

Hope this helps. Agape. Rich P.

Hi Dutch,

The verses you related concern Christs 2nd coming. I don't believe the bible scripture relates to "a rapture" or a secret event of Christ coming prior to Christs 2nd coming. Many modern day Christians believe this rapture doctrine, even though it goes against over 18 centuries of solid traditional Church doctrine. These modern day Christian's believe Christ will come to deliver them prior to the Great Tribulation. It's wishful thinking, human nature, and leave it to Man to always be trying to figure an easy way out, but the scripture really does not support this.

As the world continues to deteriorate in sin, as Christians we need to be realistic, and stop fantasizing, and focus on God's second coming, and realize we will not receive any better treatment than all of the Christians that have suffered and died before us. At some point we will be suffering, and exposed to the Great Tribulation as related by God in the scripture. God will guide us through this too, and the scripture supports that even though we will be present during the Tribulation, He will protect, and provide his believers with safe places to hide on earth, as the end time prophesies unfold.

Then Christ's 2nd coming:

Hebrews 9:28

"So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation."

Good Bless.

Hi John,

I agree that sin brings spiritual death, but back in Genesis, God said that they would surely die. This was both a spiritual and physical death that was not present before they sinned.

It is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment. ( Hebrews 9:27) This is referring to physical judgment, I believe.

It is amazing to me that people believe, then, in 'three comings' of Christ (albeit one of them is a 'secret' one), when the Bible clearly says, in Hebrews 9:28,

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

There is never a mention of 'three comings'. Very puzzling.

We are never, if in Christ, appointed to the wrath of God because of all that Jesus did for us; but the church has always been exposed to the wrath of man.

Blessings...

Amen Sister Suze:

Colossians 1:27 .....THIS MYSTERY ......Christ In YOU ......

Hebrews 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the HOLY PLACE made with hands, but into HEAVEN ITSELF .....

Philippians 2:13 For it is God (Christ in you, heaven itself) that worketh in you both to will and to do his good pleasure.

Psalms 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods, the children of the most high.

God Bless YOU; his body.

As the father and I are ONE, that they may be ONE with us.

Amen Brother Chris.

Now is the time for salvation!!

That time seems to winding down.

I believe it's evident in the state of the world and also in the Apostasy at large. Also with this pandemic we've seen a sifting sort to speak.

Hebrews 9:27-28. seems to parallel with Revelation 22.

"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation."

Revelation 22:11, 14-15. HE THAT IS UNJUST, LET HIM BE UNJUST STILL: AND HE WHICH IS FILTHY, LET HIM BE FILTHY STILL: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

FOR WITHOUT ARE DOGS, AND SORCERERS, AND WHOREMONGERS, AND MURDERERS, AND IDOLATERS, AND WHOSOEVER LOVETH AND MAKETH A LIE.

There's a solemn warning for those who desire to add or take anything away from this book.

NO Ambassador of Christ would dare do that. Wisdom is known by her children and that certainly wouldn't be wise.

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom. But why fear if there is no consequences.

This false teaching there is no Satan no Hell and no consequences assists and comfort a sinner in his folly.

Look at Ecclesiastes 8:11-12. it confirms that.

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Revelation 22:17.

Man has to realize his condition and hopeless fate and come. otherwise he will be UNJUST STILL.

God bless.

Hebrews 9:27

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Read the Book of John; especially chapter 3. We come to Jesus because we realize we can't be perfect. Jesus was willing to die for us, so we could live eternally with Him.

He came to earth to live as a human, perfectly without sinning; so He could be the one to pay your sin debt.

Your first step is to admit to yourself, and then to Jesus; that you miss it. Like we all do. I miss it and many others do. But now we actually rejoice because Jesus paid for all of our sins: past, present, and future.

I hope you choose Him today. There's links all over this website to explain the choice you decide on. We are always here for you. Ask any questions you have.

Hello Shirley. I believe as residents of this Earth & hearers of this Good News of salvation, we are obliged to make a response to Jesus while there is still breath in our bodies. Once we depart this life, there remains no further opportunity. Hebrews 9:27 states, "it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment". No second chances or opportunities - only God's Judgement awaits all those who have refused Him & His Offer of Love.

And this is also why Jesus, after he arose from the grave, gave commmandment to His disciples in Matthew 28:18-20, to go & share this Good News, teaching them, baptizing them after they believe, & to obey His Commandments. And the disciples, after they were filled with the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, did just that, sharing the Gospel in the regions near & beyond, & bringing those who would be saved into the fold of Christ. If this sense of grave responsibility & urgency wasn't there, it could well mean that there was still hope for people after the grave. But this is not the case. People need to hear this message now - tomorrow might be too late for them. Many refuse to hear, but we pray that God will direct our steps & our voices to those appointed to receive eternal life. At least to our loved ones, friends & associates, this Good News must be shared that they not be consigned to the place of eternal punishment.

Advocate - 1 John 2:1

Alive for Evermore - Rev 1:18

All Knowing Psalm 139:1-6

All, and in All - Colossians 3:11

Almighty - Revelation 1:8

Alpha and Omega - Revelation 1:8

Altar - Hebrews 13:10

Altogether Lovely - Song of Solomon 5:16

Amen - Revelation 3:14

Ancient of Days - Daniel 7:13 & Daniel 7:22

Anointed One - 1 Samuel 2:35

Author of Eternal Salvation - Hebrews 5:9

Author of our Faith - Hebrews 12:2

Balm of Gilead - Jeremiah 8:22

Banner over us - Ps 60:4, S of Sol 2:4

Bearer of Sin - Hebrews 9:28

Before All Things - Colossians 1:17

Beginning and Ending - Revelation 1:8

Bishop of our Souls - 1 Peter 2:25

Blessed and Only Potentate - 1 Timothy 6:15

Blessed Hope - Titus 2:13

Bread of Life, my manna - John 6:35

Bridegroom - John 3:29

Bright and Morning Star - Revelation 22:16

Brightness of His Glory - Hebrews 1:3

Buckler - Psalms 18:30

Captain - Joshua 5:14-15, Hebrews 2:10

Changeless One - Malachi 3:6, Hebrews 13:8

Chief Among 10,000, S. of Solomon 5:10

Chosen of God - 1 Peter 2:4

Christ - Matthew 1:16 - 1 John 5:1

Comforter - John 14:16-18

Consolation of Israel - Luke 2:25

Counselor - Isaiah 9:6

Creator - Romans 1:25 - Isaiah 40:28

Crown of Glory - Isaiah 28:5

Since I ran out of space I thought I'd add one more comment.

The #1 criticism often received is someone claims I don't believe in grace or that I believe we're saved by effort. That is a strawman argument and is untrue. The Bible says Christ followers will be saved by grace, not by works. That is not what is being contested.

Just because we will be saved by grace doesn't mean we should stop obeying Christ! It doesn't mean we should stop following Christ! The fruit of faith is works. A Christian is a Christ follower and if someone doesn't follow Christ they by definition are not even a Christian. And if not a Christian, that person should not expect the benefits of salvation. Matthew 7:21. Many will feel very entitled but will be shocked they aren't welcomed. This is the wake up call many need right now. Get right with the Lord today before its too late!

A Christ follower is action. Those who aren't actively following Christ are may not be Christ followers. And just because we're imperfect and fall down from time to time doesn't mean we're not Christians. This is very different from someone turning their backs on Jesus and following the pleasures of the world (satan). But Jesus said He would go after the lost sheep, not lost wolves! Many people assume they're followers because a pastor told them so, but are instead lost wolves expecting all the benefits of salvation for doing nothing. God bless.

People have freewill:

Psalms 25:12

Joshua 24:15 "choose you this day whom ye will serve"

Psalm 119:30

Luke 16:13

Proverbs 3:31

Fear God:

Joshua 24:14

Psalms 25:12

Proverbs 1:29

Seek God:

Psalms 63:1

All will be judged:

2 Corinthians 5:10

Romans 2:16

John 12:48

Hebrews 9:27

Revelation 20:12

Yes! You are Correct.

The 7th Trumpet Will Sound First.

Then The Dead In Christ Shall Rise (Come Out Of) Their Graves.

And They (The Risen Dead) Shall Appear Unto Many Of Us. Matt.27:53

Then: We which Are Alive And Remain (On The Earth):

Shall Be Caught Up (In Excitment) Together With Them In The Clouds.

In The Clouds? Ezek.3816 / Hebrew.12:1 / Isaiah 60:8

Who Are These that Fly As A Cloud To Their Windows?

God Likens People To Clouds.

So: We (Clouds) Shall Be Caught Up (In Excitement) Together With Those

(Clouds) Who Have Risen Out Of Their Graves And Walk Among Us.

And We Will All Meet The Lord In The Air.

In The Air? (In The Air Waves) In Cyber Space.

Back To Isaiah 60:8 Who Are These That Fly As A Cloud To Their Windows?

Their Windows?

Their Computer Screens: Windows 9 / Windows 10 / Windows 11

Who Are They That Fly (Rush / Hurry) To Their Windows?

They Are God's Children Who Are Eagerly Waiting For Their Lord's Return To Earth.

Jesus is Going To Come Back "To" The Earth. He Is "Not Going To Hover" In The Heavens "And Wait" For All Of His Children To Fly Up To Where He Is.

And So (In This Way) Shall We Ever Be With The Lord.

In This Way? (Via Internet) Every Eye Shall See Him.

Re: Rapture? Nothing But Wishful Imaginations.

It Is Written in Hebrews 9:27

It Is Appointed Unto Men (People) Once To Die;

But After This The Judgement.

No-One Can Escape Their God-Given Appointment With Death.

Matt.24:13 / Mark 13:13

Ye Shall Be Hated Of All Men For My Name's Sake:

But He That Shall Endure (Persecution) Unto The End (Unto Death),

The Same Shall Be Saved.

Rev.6:11 White Robes were Given Unto Every One Of Them; And It was Said Unto Them, That They Should Rest Yet For A Little Season,

Until Their Fellowservants Also And Their Brethren, That Should Be Killed As They Were, Should Be Fulfilled.

2 Thess.2:3 Let No Man Deceive you By Any Means:

For That Day Shall Not Come, Except There Be A Falling Away First.

Deb,

Yes. Hebrews 9:27 was written for a reason. Elijah and Enoch were both men, and like men they were subject to death. "and God took them. Does it mean they were "raptured", Haha, whatever fits in your temple. The fact is their souls went back to God in heaven. Ezekiel 18:4

They are not equivalent or comparable to Christ in any way shape or form; they sleep. Any other explanation is contrary to the Bible's teachings. The writer romanticized their deaths, made them bigger than life; scripture proves this. It was a huge mistake to fantasize them, because God knows people can't differentiate fact from fiction, regardless of the law. These two prophets mortality wasn't any different than any other men of any time.

Please read the following

Hebrews 10:1-31, Hebrews 9:1-28,

The law of Priests, regarding the Ark of The Covenant & Holy of Holies : Exodus 25:8-22, Exodus 26:33,34, Leviticus 16:1-34, Deuteronomy 10:8,

note: Hebrews 9:3-5,

1Samuel 3:1-3, 1Samuel 3:19, * 1Samuel 3:20, 1Samuel 7:15,16,17, 1Samuel 8:1, doesn't call Samuel or his sons priests, 1Samuel 9:9,10,15,19,

* 1Samuel 4:3-11, 1Samuel 4:22, 1Samuel 5:1, 1Samuel 7:2, The Ark of The Covenant was taken,

1Samuel 8:5,6,7,19,22,

David didn't become King until after Samuel passed on. 1Samuel 25:1, while David was still hiding from Saul. 2Samuel 6:1-9, is David's 1st attempt to retrieve the Ark of The Covenant, 2Samuel 6, * 1Chronicles 13:3, Please also read 1Chronicles 15,

Significant note: Luke 1:5-23, Matthew 27:51, Mark 15:38, Luke 23:45,

Short answer-no. Elisha had the unfortunate task of satisfying the curiousity of those who thought he was dropped someplace on a mountain after God took Elijah up. ( 2 Kings 2:16-18). Enoch was also taken up as he pleased God.

There is some controversy as to the identity of the 2 prophets in Revelation; although Elijah was stated to return according to Malachi before the great and dreadful Day of the Lord. Hebrews 9:27 states that man is destined to die once then face the judgment. Since the 2 prophets die at the hands of Antichrist someday; it certainly could be those two the only ones raptured as it were.

Christ began the resurrection of those during the "church age." He was the first of the "firstfruits"; followed by "many who rose from their graves" after the Resurrection of Christ ( Matthew 27:52-53). Some according to 1 Cor. 15:51-52will not "sleep" or die physically either. What is hard to explain is how in still mortal bodies these saints can be in God's presence. Perhaps they are as those saints in Revelation; under the throne or removed from being so close to God that they would perish. If this theory is wrong in regard to Enoch then perhaps he will undergo some transformation into a new body. It would seem though that it took Christ's resurrection removing those in hades (who used to be in a pleasant part such as Lazarus) ( Luke 16:22). Post Resurrection; to be "absent from the body is to be present with the Lord." ( 2 Cor. 5:8).

There are many interesting analogies with Elijah and Elisha in terms of those today who are ready for the Rapture. Elisha didn't want to talk of the event. ( 2 Kings 2:3). We should seek to be as those taken (such as Noah) FROM trouble in the Rapture rather than those who narrowly escaped (typified by Lot). If we are like Lot's wife; we may be swept up in destruction.

It is nice to know that if we are removed from our earthly tabernacle before the Rapture we will be in His presencce ( 2 Cor. 5:1).

Hi Naomi,

There was just a discussion related to this:

Link

I'm sure there's been many others in the past too if you do an advanced search for it.

The Bible says when we die we will enter a state to await Jesus's return then will face judgment all together. It's called judgment day. Matthew 12:36, Hebrews 9:27. There's no verse saying you get to skip this, and nothing saying you go to heaven then go back to earth into your body, only to go back to judgment after you've already been in heaven.

Daniel 12:2

Job 14:12

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

1 Corinthians 15:18-20

Matthew 9:24

Those who believe in instant heaven involves misinterpreting 2 key verses: 1. Misquoting Paul when he said he'd "rather" be in heaven (those sleeping in the grave haven't necessarily departed from their old bodies yet anyway), 2. Thief on cross when Jesus said that day he'd be in "paradise". Most ignore all the other verses above saying we will await Jesus's return, then have a day of judgment. God bless.

This subject has been hotly contested and I just had a member of my small group take that stance this week. The fact that God is said to put "eternity" in men's hearts surely shows that there is a concept of it once we are at a certain age. ( Ecclesiastes 3:11). We also have Stephen who right before he died saw Christ standing on His throne; then he "fell asleep." Acts 7:60. We have the great "cloud of witnesses" of Hebrews 11; those under the throne who have been martyred ( Rev. 6:9-11); David's commentary about his son dying ( 2 Sam. 12:23) where he says that his son can't come to him but he shall go to see him (after death); the appearance of Moses and Elijah (although Elijah was translated) at the transfiguration; and verses about Sheol. Jesus has the parable about Lazarus and the rich man ( Luke 16:19-31) about the fate of O.T. people in both sections of Sheol; and the captivity being made captive ( Eph. 4:8 also prophesied in Psalm 68:18; Jesus promising the thief on the cross that today he would be in paradise ( Luke 23:43); and that would be followed by many saints coming out of their graves after the Resurrection ( Matthew 27:52-53). We also have Hebrews 9:27 which says man is destined to die once; then face the judgment.

There are many other confirming verses. We must keep in mind that when the word "qeber" is used defining the grave; and a person ceasing to exist it is the body. Sheol; however is the land of the dead. We must also keep in mind that the spirits of just men made perfect ( Heb. 12:23) would start with Christ the first of the firstfruits; so to speak. God is not the God of the dead but the living ( Luke 20:38). John 8:56 says that Abraham longed to see the day HE SAW IT AND REJOICED. We have Paul's vision of things unspeakable whether in the flesh or not he didn't know ( 2 Cor. 12:2). Finally; John's vision in Revelation literally saw the future.

The biggest issue is WHY people think soul sleep exists. It concerns me.