Discuss Hebrews 9 Page 6

the time of reformation; Heb. 9:10 = The Greek noun root (pronounced "ka-hee-ROS") translated here into "time" speaks of a very specific, short, and measurable period of time which features its own unique characteristics, and usually climaxes with an important decisive event. Contextually, the event was CHRIST's Crucifixion when "HE appeared to put away sin by the Sacrifice of HIMSELF" (v.26).

The term "reformation" occurs only once in the N.T. ( Heb. 9:10)and translates from the Greek compound noun (pronounced "dee-OR-th-sis"). It combines two words:

1st, the Greek preposition (pronounced "dee-AH"), meaning "by" or "through"; and

2nd, the Greek adjective (pronounced "or-THOS"), meaning "straight", "erect", or "upright".

The English language derives the grammatical element "ortho - ", relating especially to the spine and long straight bones of the skeletal system which enables humans to stand up straight and erect.

It also derives the religious term "orthodox", which speaks of conforming to, and behaving according to healthy and approved doctrine.

This Reformation speaks of LORD JESUS CHRIST fulfilling and abolishing the Old Testament sacrificial animal typology when HE sacrificed HIMSELF on Calvary's Cross.

CHRIST's Soteriologic Reformation establishes all things "better", including, but not limited to, a

+ "better Hope" ( Heb. 7:19),

+ "better Testament" ( Heb. 7:22),

+ "better Covenant" ( Heb. 8:6),

+ "better Promises" ( Heb. 8:6,

+ "better country, that is an Heavenly" ( Heb. 11:16), and

+ "better Resurrection" ( Heb. 11:35).

Hello again Dr. Lee. I think I might have understood the difference between the Old Covenant & the Old Testament. You wrote: "One huge difference between the Old Testament and the old covenant is that Moses wrote the Old Testament by hand, while God wrote with his finger the old covenant." The Old (Mosaic) Covenant being the Ten Commandments (which I understand & agree to), & the Old Testament being the Pentateuch (?) If this is the case, have those who divided the testaments to what we have now, erred, by placing the Pentateuch, the Prophets & the Writings under the nomenclature of the Old Testament? If so, then this is misleading.

Now when we consider the New Testament, you've written that the "New Testament has 7 categories." This to me seems like the New Testament must include all the Books from Matthew to Revelation as those categories you've detailed can be seen in most, if not all, of those books.

Then to the New Covenant. It "only has two great commandments". Can we not actually place these Covenantal Laws of both the Old & New (i.e. the Ten Commandments & the love God & neighbour commandment) under the actual Covenants made/given that command men to follow after? I tend to look at a Covenant as just that: a verbal declaration/pledge by one party to another. Therefore I see that the Mosaic (Old) Covenant (e.g. Deuteronomy 11:1-32) & the New Covenant (found variously in Jeremiah 31:31-34; Matthew 26:28; Hebrews 9:15; Romans 11:26,27), as the pledge, with the commandments (including the dictates of the Spirit in the believer), being our response to those Covenants. If we, post-Cross, fail to apprehend this & fail to earnestly seek to obey the Spirit, one could rightly question of what sort our salvation is & whether the promise of the Covenant was ever applied to our hearts. Thank you for your time again.

Here are several scriptures I found about death & after death : James 2:26, Ecclesiasticus 38:23, Ecclesiasticus 22:11, 2 Maccabees 7:36, 2 Maccabees 12:44, Ecclesiasticus 10:11, Ecclesiasticus 17:28, Baruch, 2:17, Psalms 88:10, Psalms 115:11, Ecclesiastes 9:5,

after death,: Matthew 17:1-3, Luke 7:12-16, Luke 8:49-56, John 11:21-45, Matthew 27:50-54, Luke 16:22-31, John 21:14, Acts 3:15, Acts 4:10, Mark 12:25,26,27, Luke 24:46, John 5:12, John 5:25, 1 Peter 1:3, 1 Peter 2:24, 1 Peter 4:5, Revelation 1:5, Revelation 1:18, Revelation 14:9-20, 1 Corinthians 15:20,21, 2 Timothy 4:1, 1 Thessalonians 4:16, 1 Thessalonians 1:10, Matthew 25:31-46, Romans 14:9, Matthew 22:32, Isaiah 26:19,

Hebrews 11:35, Revelation 20, 2 Esdras 2:16, Hebrews 6:2, Hebrews 9:14, Hebrews 11:4, Hebrews 13:20, Revelation 11:18,

Hopefully these are helpful.

Thank you for that extra information, Dr. Lee. I understand that you apply the term, Old Testament', to the other Laws, whereas we commonly refer to the OT as that part of the Bible that contains all the testaments/covenants with their applications, ramifications, & performance by the people. When you refer to Galatians 3:19, I read that it speaks of the Law, ordained (not created) by angels; for it's not in their power to create. And this Law has to include all the Law & not only the other Laws, as in Galatians 3:10-17.

It seems that it would be easier & more understandable to all if we spoke of the Law given as the Ten Commandments & the Other Laws. To introduce the wording: 'Old Testament' into this seems misleading as the Testament is the Covenant which must also include all the Laws applicable to it. And a Testament must of necessity include the death of the Testator to come into effect; to which the Old (Mosaic) Testament included the shedding of blood as dedication or consecration of that Promise ( Hebrews 9:16-22). Since God cannot die, it clearly looked ahead when He would do, in His Son, Who became the "Mediator of the New Testament" (the better Covenant: Hebrews 8:6). And the Old (Mosaic) Covenant simply being those Laws which God had given, to which both parties were to fully comply with (Deuteronomy chapter 28).

I realize that this is different to what you've stated, but as I've considered the Scriptures you've given, I can't see the need to differentiate the Old Covenant & the Old Testament in the way you suggest. Have you given it merely to create a difference between the two (sets) of Laws, or is there a specific Scripture you see to denote that the Old Testament applies to the other Laws?

Hi Rod; When speaking about the law being destroyed, I am talking about the Old Testament, which is also called the Mosaic Law. It was this law that was destroyed by the Lord Jesus Christ on Calvary according to the wisdom of the Apostle Paul in Ephesians 2:14-16 and Colossians 2:14-15 Knowing as Christians if we obey one of those laws we are cursed to obey them all. Galatians 3:10 which is a quotation from Deut. 27:26 Now in your argument you thought I was speaking about the Ten Commandments in stone according to Matthew 5:17-18 This is referred unto in scripture as the old covenant, as in Deut. 5:2-3 and Hebrews 9:4 These are two different laws, the one O.T. is the law of Moses, while the other one, old covenant, is the Law of the Lord, or Law of God, or moral law. These are not the same, although they share the same name as the word law, but have two distinct different meanings. While the Old testament was created by angels, as in Acts 7:53 and Galatians 3:19 knowing the word disposition and ordained share a similar meaning, to set in order or create, yet the Ten Commandments in stone, was written by the finger of God. Now this law had an expiry date, Christ did not come to destroy this law, but to fulfil this law, but once it was fulfilled it was then dead, as In Matthew 5:18 - Luke 16:16 - Romans 7:6-7 If you read carefully those scriptures I have mentioned, and need be, pray over them, you should come to the understanding of the Apostle Paul on this matter as he fought against obeying these two things in many of his epistles, as he was against Christians obeying the Old Testament and the old covenant. Because you mentioned the least commandments in Matthew 5:19 I would like to say, these twelve hundred commandments found in the gospels and epistles, are all to be considered the least commandments, while only the two greatest commandments on how to love God, and how to love your neighbor need interpretation by these least commandments of how this is done

Hi Chris; Whenever I refer unto the Old Testament I also call it the law of Moses, because he was the mediator between God and Israel, however; the old covenant simple means the Ten Commandments in stone as in Deuteronomy 5:2-3 & Hebrews 9:4 - Jer. 31:31-34 and Hebrews 8:6-7 Genesis holds three covenants created before the Old Testament, Adam, Noah and Abraham all received a covenant, which was not the Old Testament. Then the angels created the Old Testament, Acts 7:53 & Galatians 3:19 During that dispensation, about 1,600 years or so, God gave the old covenant (Ten Commandments in stone) and the Davidical covenant, howbeit, neither of these were the Old Testament. It is generally speculated that the Old Testament has 613 laws, actually all of which should be in the book of Leviticus, meaning the O.T. specifically is only Leviticus, all other books before the New Testament are not the Old Testament, they are written during that dispensation, although some of them, like Exodus, numbers and Deuteronomy have some of the O.T. written within it. Therefore; you cannot put the four gospels in the Old Testament, as they do not contain any Old Testament laws, neither do they contain obedience to the old covenant, meaning the Ten Commandments in stone. The old covenant was magnified by the Lord Jesus Christ Isaiah 42:21 making it spiritual, harder to obey, and was written in the heart of all Christians Jer. 31:31-34 - Hebrews 8:6-13 & James 1:21 This n.c. sets us free from the o.c. as in Romans 8 for the law of life in Christ Jesus, has made me free from the law of sin and death. It should be noted that the Old Testament was destroyed by the death of Christ on Calvary as in Ephesians 2:14-16 and Colossians 2:14-15 Knowing if we obey one commandment from that law we are cursed according to Gal. 3:10 and Deut. 27:26 Yet the old covenant was magnified, not destroyed, but fulfilled as in Matthew 5:17-18 although it had an expiry date, as in Luke 16:16 I hope this is clear.

Hi Rod;

I read what you wrote and questions have arisen from your thoughts, you stated the Old Testament was not destroyed based upon Ephesians 2:14-16 and Colossians 2:14-15, I think you should re=read those scriptures again and pray over them for meaning, also, if the Old Testament is not destroyed can you obey even one Old Testament law today? Knowing if you do, you are cursed as a Christians to obey all 613 laws from the Old Testament. Galatians 3:10 Then you said I should read Hebrews 9:11-14 stating the ordinances are no longer of value because of the blood of Christ, I do not think these verses are teaching what you are implying at all, as this is about the blood of Christ cleaning our conscience, not about him removing the Old Testament by his blood. You then went on to talk about the Ten Commandments in stone from Matthew 5:18 and then you quoted it again from Galatians 5:14, I will ask this question, do you know the difference between the old covenant and the Old Testament? By your thoughts it appears you think they are the same thing, otherwise why mention the Law of God, when I was talking about the Old Testament being destroyed? The Ten Commandments in stone is the old covenant, it is not a testament, please do not confuse them, they must be kept separate, as the old covenant was replaced with the new covenant, meaning the Ten Commandments in the heart. Hebrews 8:6-7 But the Old Testament was not replaced it was destroyed.

Yes I agree completely, we cannot earn our way to God, hopefully I didn't imply that we can. what I was saying in my post was that in Matthew 5:17, Jesus fulfilled the law and prophets, and the ordinances (not the laws) were abolished on the cross, ie. circumcision, sin offerings etc. that were required, Hebrews 9:8-14 explains this

Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"

Galatians 3:10-14 "But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith."

James 2:10-11 "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."

I'm a great sinner and thank God that Jesus is a greater Saviour. GB

I've posted this previously,

In the Gospels, Jesus quotes the old testament many times and how in his coming the old testament is fulfilled,

in Colossians 2:14-15 Jesus is talking about blotting out the handwriting of ordinances, not the laws. Hebrews 9:11-14 explains why the ordinances are no longer necessary, because of the blood of Christ,

Rather he exemplifies the laws as in Matthew 5:18-45, 18-"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Romans 3:31 "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." Galatians 5:14-23 "For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." 22&23 "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith," "Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law."

In the Gospels, Jesus quotes the old testament many times and how in his coming the old testament is fulfilled,

In the two verses you quoted, as in Colossians 2:14-15 Jesus is talking about blotting out the handwriting of ordinances, not the laws. Hebrews 9:11-14 explains why the ordinances are no longer necessary, because of the blood of Christ,

Rather he exemplifies the laws as in Matthew 5:21-45, 18-"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Galatians 5:14-23 "For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." 22&23 "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith," "Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law."

AS I was in a Prayer Team mtg at church I heard this retied pastor pray this way and thoughts started soaring and I know He din't mean any disrespect to God and God knows our heart and when we pray He knows so I'm not afraid of praying right or wrong but want to be praying in God's will and word. Are We suppose to pray that God help us to sin less so Jesus won't suffer anymore or as i once or twice hurting for my lost neighbors & family/world have said to God...Lord, if my heart is breaking for the Lost yours must be too so please help them surrender soon. This came to my mind when I this replaying in my head. It came to my mind that how can Jesus be suffering when 1 Peter 3:18 says Christ suffered ONCE, for our sins and Hebrews 9:28 says ONCE, He offered to bear the sins of many...Jesus Wept which is the shortest verse but that is past temse so why do we as humans think he's weeping for our sins When Revelation 21:1-7 says No More tears and pain in heaven and He is in Heaven from what I read sitting by the right hand of God. Do you really think God gets hurt inside seeing what His creation's doing or those that have accepted Him thinking He suffers. I believe God has righteous Anger towards us NOT listening, but I believe He is a fair, Just and Loving God who gives more than 2nd chances. At least I know He did for me. I think He allows our choices to draw US to a Loving Forgiving God and it's Our choice to surrender. I'm not sure about whether He feels about it in the sense of suffering or hurting or weeping then wouldn't that make His word a lie. I know He doesn't lie as His Wrod says He's the Word and He's the same yesterday and today. Please pray with me, I'm Praying about these things and praying I can talk to my Pastor Sunday. I just want to have sound doctrine if someone ever brings this up and I pray God will give me wisdom and discernement on this subject and I find Peace about it. Thanks for reading and your prayers and/or any incite.

Regarding Hebrews 8:5 = GOD commanded Moses to construct the Old Testament Tabernacle as the instrument of HIS presenting HIMSELF to Israel ( Exo. 25:22; cp. 30:6 & 36):

"There I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the Mercy Seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the Ark of the Testimony, of all things which I will give thee in Commandment unto the children of Israel."

This verse ( Heb. 8:5) records three terms which demonstrate the purpose and value of the Old Testament Levitical Priesthood and of the Tabernacle that GOD commanded Moses to replicate on earth. These terms provide a comprehensive perspective "figure" ( Heb. 9:9) of that which is "of Heavenly Things".

1st, they served as "the example of Heavenly Things", meaning an exact copy or reproduction of the original and "True Tabernacle, which The LORD pitched, and not man" (v.2). Compare the terms "figure", "pattern", and "fashion" in the following references: Exodus 26:30; 27:8; Numbers 8:4; Acts 7:44; and Hebrews 9:9;

By design, the example demonstrates the purpose and value of the original. This example is not a counterfeit, but rather a replication of the actual Heavenly Tabernacle which speaks of the saints dwelling in the very Presence of CHRIST ( Rev. 13:6; 15:5; 21:3).

2nd, they served as a "shadow of Heavenly Things", meaning it only typified, symbolized, represented, and pointed to the Heavenly Tabernacle. A literal shadow is intangible which reveals simply the outline or profile of the actual object. The earthly Tabernacle simply revealed "a figure for the time then present."

3rd, they served as GOD's earthly "pattern" which was enforced only temporarily until CHRIST established HIS "more Excellent Ministry" (v.6) as exclaimed in Hebrews 10:9-12.

Here are several scriptures I hope answer your questions

* Psalms 139,

Genesis 3:8, Genesis 4:16, Jonah 1:3, 2 Corinthians 3:17, Psalms 95:2, Psalms 16:11,

Deuteronomy 11:10-13, Leviticus 22:3, Psalms 114:7, Psalms 68:8, Psalms 97:5, Romans 8:16, 1 Kings 9:3, 2 Chronicles 2:16-19, Job 10:4, Psalms 11:4, Psalms 34:15, Psalms 145:14-16, Proverbs 5:21, Proverbs 15:3, Hebrews 4:11-14, 1 Peter 3:12, Ecclesiasticus 15:19, Ecclesiasticus 17:15,19, Ecclesiasticus 34:16, Ecclesiasticus 39:19,

Hebrews 9:24,

Jude 1:24,

Revelation 19:6,

Matthew 25:31-46,

Hebrews 9:27-28,

Jude 1:1-25,

1 John 1:8-10

John 3:15-16,

Hopefully these are helpful. There are many more scriptures on this subject. If you would like more, let me know. Just reply back.

Agree more with Glenn, because Genesis 1:26, "them" "over all the Earth"

Rick, please read : Mark 12:27, Luke 20:36-38, Hebrews 9:14-15, Luke 9:60, Genesis 2:17,

Genesis 3:20,

John 3:3,5,6,

Numbers 23:19, 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12, Leviticus,

Nowhere, is that stated in Scripture. Colossians 2:8

Revelations 22:19,

Brother Earl. You stated the following: "they don't BELIEVE that ALL MEN are God's CHURCH". I don't believe it either. God's Church, or Christ's Church, comprise only those saved by the Blood of the Lamb. If they include the wicked & unrepentant as well as those entering into salvation & its blessings with unbelief in their hearts, then that brings shame on Christ's Work towards salvation & makes the Cross meaningless. If Christ "draws all men unto Him", then the only ones who are accepted of the Father are those of whom He spoke, "And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." ( John 12:47,48). And God's Judgement is certain, final, & eternal - no second chances to those who die without Christ ( Hebrews 9:27; Hebrews 10:27-29).

"Judah was the only one that had five brothers, so this (reference in Luke 16:27,28) was addressed to the house of JUDAH, creation is the PROMISED SEED of the house of JUDAH." If the reference is to Judah's five brothers, then what is Judah doing sitting in hell in torments? Hopefully, the Jews didn't realize that Jesus was talking about Judah in hell & his five brothers about to enter there as well.

"since Christ is the church, and Christ is creation's brother". Not sure how you work out that Christ is creation's brother. Christ is indeed the Church ( Colossians 1:18,24), but He is also the Creator without familial relationship to His Creation ( Colossians 1:15-17). He does love His creation, but the only brothers He has, are those whom He has purchased with His Own Blood ( Acts 20:28).

Hi Richard.

HE'S GOING TO WRITE HIS LAWS ON THEIR HEARTS.

Jeremiah 31:31. As it reads God is going to make a new covenant with the house of Israel.

Jeremiah 31:32 The Lord says this new covenant won't be like the old covenant that he gave their fathers, ( On Mount Sinai by Moses. )

Note: "A Mount that could not be touched"

Jeremiah 31:33-34. Tell us what the New covenant shall be. And how it will function!!

"I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts;

" Not on tables of Stone "

You see an example of this in

2 Corinthians 3:3.

This new covenant is NOT where they were bond to a law in which they could not keep because of the weakness of the flesh.

See Romans 8:3-4.

That Covenant and tabernacle was a shadow of the (TRUE) tabernacle.

( Hebrews 8:2. A minister of the sanctuary, and of the TRUE tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.)

See Hebrews 8:1-13.

See Hebrews 9:1-28.

See Hebrews 10:8-17.

THE ENERGY BEHIND THE DESIRE TO KEEPING THE LAW BEHIND THIS COVENANT WASN'T COMMANDMENT,

This covenant is set in motion and Moved by the Holyspirit. This is an inward action not an outward one.

This New Covenant is what the Old covenant/Law pointed to.

Note with both Covenants in view.

Galatians 4:23-28. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

God bless.

Brother Dee, does Jesus blood cover ALL MEN of just SOME MEN. Is it up to man to be saved or up to the saviour when they will be saved. There are ages to come after the age we are now in.

Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man was crucified with him, that the body of sin might be DESTROYED, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Every man born flesh and blood has to be destroyed.

We are all a son of perdition that has to be destroyed.

2 Thessalonians 2:8 Then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall DESTROY with the brightness of his coming ( Hebrews 9:28).

Sister GiGI: SECOND COMING

Colossians 1:27 You whom God would make made known which is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is CHRIST IN YOU, the hope of glory.

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth, whom the world CANNOT receive because he seeth him not, neither knoweth him, but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall BE IN YOU.

These are God's words, if this is a reality to you then Christ has COME THE SECOND TIME; TO YOU.

Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many (first coming), and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time (as CHRIST IN YOU) (second coming) without sin (Christ's sacrifice covered our sin in his first coming) unto SALVATION.

Isaiah 27:12 It shall come to pass in that day (we are in that day), that the Lord shall beat off from the channel of the river unto the stream of Egypt, and ye shall BE GATHERED ONE by ONE, O ye children if Israel (the elect are the TRUE children of Israel).

Matthew 24:40 One shall be taken, to be a Son of God, and never see death, and one shall be left, to die in their sins, lay in the grave, resurrected to flesh and judged in the fire of the Lord, not TORTURED IN PHYSICAL FIRE.

Sister GiGI, Do you agree that Christ is the Holy Ghost, the Comforter, Spirit of Truth.

John 14:17 ....but you know him, for he dwelleth with you, and shall BE IN YOU.

Jesus came the second time in the form of the Holy Ghost and it happened at Pentecost.

Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once (first coming) offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them who look for him shall he appear the second time (as the Holy Ghost) without sin unto salvation.

You never see the thief in the night, you never see the Holy Ghost. This is the reason so many miss his coming, they are looking for the physical. The culmination of the second coming will end with him and the elect standing in the flesh to judge the world. The AGE of GRACE will be over, and the AGE of JUDGEMENT will begin.

Earl,

Sorry, it took me a while to study your posts. Scripture is clear; the lake of fire is real and it was prepared for Satan and his angels, Matthew 25:41. Those whose name is not in the book of life will be cast into this lake of fire, the second death, this is the death the saints will be spared. According to scripture we all will be judged and our reward will be given, good or bad according to our works Revelation 22:12. Each of us will have different rewards, some lights will be brighter than others, Daniel 12:2-3 and whether in the lake of fire, the punishments may be also judged accordingly.

My understanding is we do not get a second chance for salvation after this life in this flesh, Hebrews 9:27. We have this, there are evil and good people that live and have lived and those who did not have a chance to hear of the word of God, this may show how they will be judged at the white throne judgment, Romans 2:12-15 (this is my understanding of this), but those who have heard and rejected it, Katy bar the door.

I must humbly disagree, I am not in the lake of fire, we will be judged with fire, 1 Corinthians 3:11-15. The Bible has symbolic wording but represents real things, people, kingdoms, etc. I am sorry I can't follow interpreting the scriptures by allegorizing all, I feel we turn all scripture into parables.

RLW

I've had it explained to me that it was finished when Noah finished it, "that GOD couldn't move until Noah finished it" that "GOD's timing isn't man's timing. He waits sometimes for completion of events not like world thinks". That significance is amazing to consider. Genesis 6:22,

Daniel 7:22, Galatians 4:22, Ecclesiastes 3:1-17, Daniel 7:25, Exodus 9:16-19, Hebrews 9:8-10, Psalms 105:17-19, Micah 5:2-4, seems to be significant even in future Luke 16:16,

Hope that's helpful

Hi Charles,

I agree with Mishael and S Spencer, the sacrifice of Jesus as the "Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world" replaced all the animal sacrifices and other physical rituals and ceremonies temple rituals and laws for the Aaron priesthood to completion they performed at the Temple of God in Jerusalem.

If you look at the Feast of the First Fruits will help, Leviticus 23:9-14. Eating any of the grain of the first harvest is not permitted until a sample sheaf is gathered and brought to the Temple at sunrise, the first day after the Sabbath following the Passover Day. This was the same day Jesus resurrected. Jesus ascended the same time the priest was waving the sheaf of grain from the first harvest for acceptance by God.

When Jesus first ascended to heaven, he presented himself and was accepted by God the First Fruits of them that slept. This explains why Mary Magdalene could not touch Jesus before he ascended because no one could partake of him before God accepted him. This may have been when He placed His own blood in the holy of holies, Hebrews 9:11-17. He came right back down and appeared to the women on their way to tell the disciples Jesus had resurrected, and we see they could touch Him then. Matthew 28:9-10.

This day is also the first day of counting each day of the seven Sabbaths, the first day after the seventh Sabbath was day 50, The Feast of Weeks, the day we call Pentecost the second harvest. The First Fruits, the shadow of things to come, it came when Jesus resurrected and ascended to the Father. This made it possible for the second harvest in 50 days, Pentecost, the First Fruits of the Spirit.

God bless,

RLW

Sister Sacha, Christ has returned (like a thief in the night, you didn't see him), he came the second time in the form of the Holy Spirit.

Hebrews 9:27 An it is appointed to man (sinful flesh) once to die, (sinful flesh died with Christ on the Cross), but after this the judgement ( 1 Peter 4:17).

Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once (first coming in the flesh) offered to bear the sins of many, and unto them that look for him he shall appear the second time (as the Holy Spirit) without sin UNTO SALVATION (victory over the grave and death).

God bless you.

Hello James. Another perspective. God has always required 'life to be given for life'. This was true in His original Commandments to Israel ( Deuteronomy 19:21): if one wilfully took another's life, then the punishment was to be the death of the perpetrator. And so it was for the destroying the body parts of the innocent as well (v21). It may seem harsh or barbaric to do such things in response to such crimes, but in the Divine Judgement, if in a lawful legal system where witnesses to such crimes were present, then that punishment was to be carried out (not only as punishment to the guilty but that others might learn from this, v20). However, if the witnesses gave false evidence, then they suffered similar punishment as well, vv18,19.

Having said that & to answer your question: "How did the concept of sacrifice for atonement begin?", the rule of 'life for life' was always in God's Mind & issued as part of His Laws to Israel. So, when sin entered into man, every human who committed sin was under the penalty of death ( Genesis 2:16,17; Romans 6:23) - none of us can escape it. But here we have a problem: the death that God speaks about is more than what He required of man's justice system to mete out. In the human system, only the life of man could be exterminated, but in God's System, He can remove him physically as well as positionally. True, Adam & Eve died physically because they sinned by disobeying God, but if God was to prevent them & us from also being separated from Him (i.e. into the place reserved for the Devil & his angels), then there must be a judicial means for God to use to overcome that.

God instituted a sacrificial system for Israel, where a pure animal was sacrificed in substitute for the sinner. The sacrifice couldn't remove the sin but it looked forward when God's Own Lamb would be sent as the Sacrifice for not only Israel, but for all mankind. "Without shedding of blood is no remission" ( Hebrews 9:22): God's requirement for justice & atonement.

Sorry Ed, I apologize, at death it is 2 Corinthians 5:6,8 I Misspoke 1 Corinthians, sorry....

Precious friend Ed, Great Question!

First, believe God's Gospel Of Pure GRACE, and receive HIS ETERNAL Life! God's 'Simple' Will: Link

Next, at expiration {death} your "spirit/soul Depart To Be In The Presence Of The LORD" {In Heaven!} 1 Corinthians 5:6,8 Philippians 1:21,23

OR:

IF The LORD "Does Not Tarry" in your lifetime, Then you Will Be "Changed Into Immortality/Incorruption To Meet HIM In the air!" 1 Corinthians 15:52-53 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

To go to Judgment, IN HEAVEN! 2 Corinthians 5:1-2 1 Corinthians 3:6-15

Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!

( 2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:3-9; Ephesians 3:9 = Grace/Mystery fellowship {Romans - Philemon}, For ALL "to SEE," today,? )

Hebrews 9:10

Precious friends, since God is "not the author of Confusion" 1 Corinthians 14:33, Would He not "Have The Biblical Answer" to all The denominational Confusion {I found 10 'Different water baptismal traditions' today...}? Please Be Encouraged And Edified!

Part 1

{Borrowed from 12 baptisms "study"} ONE of Israel's various {divers} washings! Greek: Baptismos = Hebrews 9:10:

4. Levitical priesthood baptism Exodus 29:4 Leviticus 8:6 Numbers 8:7. This washing was The Second Requirement { The First being: "NO blemish!" Leviticus 21:21 }, in order to become a priest under the Law of Moses! Is this baptism in any way connected To baptism # 9?:

9. "water" baptism of repentance that John preached (Before The Cross), And Peter continued (After The Cross!), to preach! Matthew 3:5-6 Mark 1:4 Luke 3:3 John 1:31 Luke 7:29-30 Acts 10:37 Matthew 28:19 Mark 16:16 Acts 2:38 Acts 22:16 Ezekiel 36:25.

a) Does this baptism "save" anyone Luke 7:29-30?

b1) Is this baptism in any way "connected" to baptism # 4?

b2) Wasn't John preparing National Israel for God's Promise For them "to be a nation of priests unto God" Exodus 19:6?

b3) Was not The Second Requirement for priesthood induction, Washing? { may require re-review of baptism #4! }.

b4) Did not CHRIST And The Twelve "heal" everyone in Israel who came to them, in order to meet "The FIRST Requirement" For the priesthood, that Of "NO blemish!"? Matthew 4:24 Acts 5:16 cp Leviticus 21:21

Semi - conclusion? God {has Not 10 baptismS Today, but ONLY} ONE Baptism = Confusion SOLVED! And "PEACE {Not Confusion} In ALL the churches!" 1 Corinthians 14:33 Amen? Link

More questions - to be continued in Part 2

Part 2 More baptism questions for today's water adherents:

9. "water" baptism of repentance:

c) Is this baptism "for today"? IF this baptism is For us Today, we have Several More Questions:

c1) Why does No one Today, "teach, as John ( Under The LAW! ), Claimed": it is For "making CHRIST Manifest To Israel" John 1:31?

c2) Why does {Almost} No one Today, "Confess their sins," when they come to water baptism Matthew 3:6 Mark 1:5?

c3) Why do not ALL Divided "denominations who Water baptize" today, agree As ONE, And "teach" water as John, CHRIST, And The Twelve ( Under The LAW! ), "taught" That "water baptism Is For The Remission Of sins!" Mark 1:4 Luke 3:3 Acts 2:38 { instead of each one's own "symbolic Re-Interpreted Traditions!" }?

10. Baptism Of Anointing?: Pentecostal Spirit baptism; This is the baptism "WITH" The Holy Spirit, BY JESUS CHRIST, From Heaven, Poured Out Upon the believing remnant of Israel with signs and powers following. Isaiah 44:3 Matthew 3:11 Mark 1:8 Mark 16:17-18 Luke 24:49 Acts 2:17-18 Acts 2:38 Acts 8:15-17 Acts 11:16.

And, is not This The THIRD Requirement For "priesthood induction" = Anointing? Compare Exodus 29:7 Leviticus 8:10-12.

Is God Performing "This" Baptism On us TODAY? IF so, Why NO "signs and powers"?

Conclusion: IF any water adherent, today, Under GRACE, believes he/she has been water baptized into the 'Israeli priesthood,' is he/she Absolutely Sure he/she Has Met The other Two Requirements Of God? IF he/she has Not "met them," then does not The Following apply To us Today?:

God Superseded Two baptisms, Under Law, With ONE Baptism, Under GRACE! Link

Further Note: Paul, in Romans through Philemon, has No doctrine of 'priesthood' for The Body Of CHRIST, Under GRACE, Today, hmm...

Prophecy vs MYSTERY: Link

God's 'Simple' Will: Link

Brother Rick, You said spirit of truth and spirit of error can not come from the same source.

I though God was the ONLY source of every thing.

Colossians 1:16 For by him were ALL THINGS created, that are in heaven and that are in earth, visible and INVISIBLE. whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or POWERS: all things were created by him, and FOR HIM.

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not with flesh and blood, but against principalities. against POWERS, against the rulers of darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

All these things we fight against in Ephesians 6:12 are the same things that he created for HIMSELF in Colossians 1:16

2 Thessalonians 2:8 Then shall that Wicked be revealed.....

2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him (that wicked), whose coming is after the working of SATAN with all POWERS and signs of lying wonders,

2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness IN THEM that perish; because THEY received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

2 Thessalonians 2:11 FOR THIS CAUSE shall GOD shall send them strong delusion that they should BELIEVE A LIE.

Man says this verse is talking about that ONE ANTI CHRIST, but verse 10 SAYS THEM AND THEY. That's more than one.

Ephesians 2:2 Where in time past ye also walked according to the course of this world (FLESH), according to the prince (Satan)of the POWER of the air ( 2 Thessalonians 2:9), the SPIRIT that now worketh in the children of disobedience (Satan).

2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall CONSUME with the spirit of his mouth (the WORD) and the brightness (the LIGHT) of his coming ( Hebrews 9:28).

GBU