Discuss Isaiah 13 Page 3

Isaiah 13 is the abomination of desolation description of America getting its Rev 18:6 to the double. Same with Isaiah 47 and many other verses concerning the day of the Lord strike. Ezekiel 21:9-12 God furbishes a sword and puts it in the hand of the slayer. You see vs 12 God says he is against his own people, the house of Israel and the house of Judah. The beast Russian confederacy, who God has commissioned to do his will, will make the whole house of Israel desolate. Mystery Babylon America gets baptized by fire; ironic how Israel's 6M Ashkenazim (Japheth) false Jews ( Gen 10:2-3) are invaded and taken into a 3rd captivity. The rest of the Babylonian system goes dark and falls that day. Luke 21:20-24 gives us another glimpse of Israel being taken away in chains. Do you know why America isn't there to save Israel from invasion? America received the abomination of desolation.

Is speaks to the plight of America and is happening right now before our eyes. COVID is the beginning of trauma and sorrow. Unless America repents and make reparations she will be punished for her evils. Get ready.

Modern day Iraq is not populated everywhere in fact many parts are entirely desert. Ancient Babylon sits about 50 miles south of Bagdad and it's desolate. Many years ago Saddam Hossain claimed to have Babylonian ancestry and tried to rebuild and then desert Storm happened. You can read about it online. There have been several attempts to rebuild but never again has it been inhabited... so the prophecy was in fact fulfilled. To this day it lays waste and nothing but animals dwell there.

Look at 1st Samuel 14:1-23, Maybe?

Thanks Mild Bill, its very very similar but the story I am talking about was 2 armies coming from different directions and merging to form one army, which was to attack the main character's people. But God stirred their hearts against each other during the night. The merging armies fought and killed each other. They attacked and killed each other. Perhaps this is the story. Maybe I read a narrative with embellishments instead.

The story line is almost identical but I remember it differently and I was reading from KJV

Perhaps I am mistaken

2 Chronicles 20

Scott, may the Spirit grace you with his wisdom,

Hebrews 2:8 Thou hast put ALL things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put ALL in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. BUT NOW WE SEE NOT YET ALL THINGS PUT UNDER HIM.

GBU

Scott, the Spirit grace you with understanding:

Revelation 11:15 ....... The kingdoms of this world (natural, sinful) are become the kingdoms (spiritual, sinless) of our Lord, and his Christ;......

May the Spirit grace you with his wisdom.

Scott, may the Spirit grace you with understanding:

1 Corinthians 15:16 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural (can be seen); and afterwards that which is spiritual (can't be seen).

The history in the old testament was lived in the natural, but is also symbolic of what will be lived out in the spiritual. Adam (natural) was also symbolic of Christ (now in the Spirit which is the Holy Ghost) Adam was put into a deep sleep (natural, but symbolic of Christ death) Eve (natural, but symbolic of the church, Christ bride).

Abraham (natural, but symbolic of our spiritual Father) offered Isaac (natural, but symbolic of Christ our spiritual brother) as a sacrifice.

The old testament is our examples and symbols (shadows) of future events.

Babylon (natural and still existing today is also symbolic of the condition of mankind). It's this sinful condition that will no longer exist when the spiritual work of the Holy Ghost is complete.

1 Corinthians 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he (Christ the Holy Ghost) shall have delivered up the kingdom of God, even the Father; when he (holy Ghost) shall put down ALL rule and ALL authority and power,

(25) For he (Holy Ghost) must reign, till he (Holy Ghost) hath put ALL enemies under his (Holy Ghost) feet.

(26) The last enemy that will be destroyed will be death (because ALL will have put on spiritual bodies which death can't hurt)

(27) For he (God the Father) has put ALL things under his (Christ the Holy Ghost) feet. But when he (God the Father) saith ALL things are put under him (Christ the Holy Ghost), it is manifest that he (God the Father) is excepted (the exception), which (God the Father) did put ALL things under him (Christ the Holy Ghost).

(28) And when ALL things shall be subdued unto him (Christ the Holy Ghost), then shall THE SON ALSO HIMSELF be subject to him (GOD THE FATHER) that put all things under him (the Son), and GOD WILL BE ALL IN ALL.

In Isaiah 13:20 the Word says Babylon will never be inhabited again, yet it's present day Iraq with millions of people right? It doesn't sound like this is a future event in the text, but I'm wondering what else it could be.

Is hell eternal for such sinners?

Effective Scripture for defeating the spirit of Jezebel.

I found tithes and offering are always confused in manner in which God intended. You can review several chapters in the book starting with Exodus 30: 13 through 16. God indicates to give half of shekel of sanctuary 20 gerah =1 shekel. You also can read Leviticus chapter 27 it tells you how much each of us are supposed to submit for tithes and offering in a single vow.

In numbers chapter 18 verse 19-32, it talks about tithing and what supposed to be given as well. The Levites we're giving a tenth part of the inheritance from the children of Israel. The inheritance was the land. The Bible is specific when it indicates did the Levites are not to receive any more inheritance. They are given the tithes of the sanctuary and the heave offering. If it is to be given in monetary value you would need to refer to that chapter to understand it's estimation value. Hope this helps. Most Ministries skip around the book. Leaving their congregation confused.

Greg,

No problem with the miscommunication. As I stated, when I first read where you said Kalos = child, I knew you had to accidentally put that there. I'm sure you already knew Kalos was not the word for child, even though a child can be Kalos (Good), sometimes!

I agree with the King James that Judas "repented himself" but it was not the same repentance required for salvation. The word repent as was used for Judas was not the same word for repent in places where the bible says "Repent and be baptized." This word repent (Metanoeo) is true repentance and is the word that's used every time it is associated with salvation. So Judas repenting himself meant that he was only sorry for his actions.

We don't get that from our English bibles. I think that's where we run into problems sometimes with our English texts. We see a word in English and we automatically attach our English understanding to not knowing the Greek uses a word that means something different than what we understand in English.

I agree fully with the persecution issue. Jesus said we can expect that. But just like Paul, we should count it all joy when we are being persecuted. That's sounds odd, but the way I see it, they are not persecuting me, they are persecuting Christ who lives in me. That's how I know I can count it as joy. And that's why Jesus said, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?" Saul was persecuting Christians but Jesus said why are you persecuting me?

And I understand the being zealous part. It never worked too well for me either. I've come to a point in my walk with the Lord where I just sit back and go along for the ride and whatever path He puts me on. I love sailboats (Pictures, models, you name it). They remind me of a time when I was "on fire" as they say, and my motor was running non-stop. But I've since turned off the motor, hoisted up the sail, and let the wind (God's Spirit) take me wherever He might take me.

Anyways,

I've also enjoyed talking with you. God Bless!!!

Minded: means that is what you have purposed in your mind. Double minded means you have a conflict in your mind.

Examples>

James 1:8

A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

James 4:8

Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

Romans 8:6

For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Philippians 3:15

Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

2 Corinthians 1:15

And in this confidence I was minded to come unto you before, that ye might have a second benefit;

Titus 2:6

Young men likewise exhort to be sober minded.

Matthew 1:19

Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.

Galatians 5:10

I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be.

2 Corinthians 1:17

When I therefore was thus minded, did I use lightness? or the things that I purpose, do I purpose accordingly.

It's about getting the mind of Christ before we do or say anything.

Be aware of who is speaking in your mind: the Holy Spirit? You? The flesh? Satan?

The spirit of this world?

Mishael

Back up and look at my comment on the prophesy in Psalms about Judas Iscariot.

God bless you as you go forward.

I found that by using the "center of the page" reference columns. The little alphabet letters. They pull in additional information about the scripture... which is how I found the prophesy.

Mishael

Jesse,

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I believe that we are then given information concerning when the Holy Spirit might speak through us as well as how we are to prepare for it in Mark 13:11

"But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost."

I believe this applies specifically to the end times, but it can also be applied in a general way to the trials and tribulations a person endures throughout their own life, and their desire, or lack thereof, to seek Jesus; similar, in a sense, to your point of view.

Persecution of God's people has never ended since the Fall of Adam. There is, thank God, only one Great Tribulation for mankind to have to go through.

Concerning your understanding of Greek, I am sorry if I sounded condescending. Being zealous has never seemed to help my cause, nor has my built in northeast sarcasm.

Concerning Judas, (and for anyone for that matter), I would rather error on the side of the power of repentance and forgiveness, and again lean on Scripture concerning him being sorry for his actions and taking steps to repair the offence ( Matthew 27:3)

If I am able to make up for an error against my neighbor, I hope that I would make every effort to do so while I am still in this mortal body. James 2:14-26, Revelation 14:13, etc.

Thanks again Jesse for your time.

Jesse,

Lots of feed-back, much appreciated.

First of all you are correct; you never said that the word teknon does not mean "child."

You actually said that the word kalos does not mean child, and again, you are correct.

I am sorry for the misunderstanding.

As far as the topic of repentance, I would refer to the definitions of the two Greek words offered previously, as they are both defined as "repent."

You bring up some interesting ideas about Judas being sorry but not repenting, , but I fully believe the words of Matthew 27:3 to be literal and true on face value; that is, Judas "repented himself."

Concerning Acts 1:18, again, I have never heard of anyone that can commit suicide by cutting themselves open from their Adam's apple to their belly button. That is one tough person. You say that it is possible. I disagree. You do provide interesting theories as well as historical basis to show how this may have happened.

I will offer another. The high priest (appointed by the Roman governor) that falsely accused Jesus likely did not want Judas to remain alive after he threw the money back at them and looked like he was sorry for what he did: So they murdered Judas also.

Your understanding of the unpardonable sin is thought provoking.

I never quite looked at it in that light but can definitely see how it applies throughout one's lifetime in a general way.

I would have to again lean on the Scripture already provided in Matthew 12:32, as well as Mark 3:29 and Luke 12:10.

"And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

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What does it mean to be "double minded"?

Adam was alive spirit, soul, body; until he and Eve ate the fruit. In Genesis 3:22 we see the Godhead conversing about how to protect the Tree of Life. It's not where it was, now: Revelation 22:2.

Since it's written, by God: all souls are mine.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the Earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. Ecclesiastes 3:21.

New Testament Scriptures on Christian spirits: Hebrews 12:23, Luke 23:46; Matthew 22:32, 1 Thessalonians 5:10,

1 Peter 3:18, 2 Corinthians 5:1-8

John 17-24, Philippians 1:21-24

Acts 7:55-56, Acts 7:59, Genesis 35:18

Love to all. Mishael

"Oh, for a Closer Walk with God" William Cowper, 1731-1800

Oh, for a closer walk with God, A calm and heavenly frame!

A light to shine upon the road That leads me to the Lamb.

Where is the blessedness I knew When first I saw the Lord?

Where is the soul refreshing view Of Jesus and His Word?

The dearest idol I have known, Whatever that idol be,

Help me that idol to dethrone And worship only Thee.

So shall my walk be close with God, Calm and serene my frame;

So purer light shall mark the road That leads me to the Lamb.

:)

Adam. Yes, I would agree with you, in the sense that, since they followed Christ, they were technically Christians. However, when I think of being a Christian, I think of those who are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, as those who were called Christians from Pentecost & onwards. And this indwelling of the Spirit is what keeps the believer secure in Christ, receptive & responsive to sin's thrusts & given wholly to follow the Lord in spite of any circumstances coming against him in life.

Sure, there will be doubts, fears, & even a major shaking of faith, but in the end, a full restoration spiritually & in his relationship to the Godhead. A nominal Christian can easily turn away or against the Lord, but the believer in Christ, filled with His Spirit, is incapable of doing such a thing. So, the question I ask myself daily, & I trust other believers would also do, is: "if I need to go through extreme hardship, a terminal illness, loss of my home or finances or even persecution, would I still remain faithful to my Saviour?" The Spirit-filled believer will persevere & endure to the end, being moved & empowered to do so by the Spirit.

Studying the history of the saints who suffered terribly for their faith, reveals that spiritual fortitude in them that can't be found in those who are without salvation. Those who went to the stake strode forward valiantly, not seeing what would soon befall them, but the Face of the Blessed One waiting on the other side to receive them. If it was not for the Lord Jesus beside them, I wonder how many of Jesus' disciples would have faltered & fled at the face of danger, except for the one who saw his position in the group as one for material gain?

(Part 4:)

And then you ask am I sure enough with my "newly acquired understanding of a few Greek words" to claim that, as I state, "Judas never surrendered his life to Jesus" and that Judas was "never a true follower"?

That's sounds sort of condescending. My newly acquired understanding of a few Greek words? Wow! How can you say that when you do not know my understanding of Greek? I've never met you but I'm sure you're a pretty nice guy. If you and I were sitting at a table face to face, I could take the Greek Text which I do own, and I could read it to you like I was reading English, word for word. There are no English words in my Greek bible and I do read it. So I know more than just a few words!

You tell me to "please do not get too upset when I am challenged on Scriptural matters." I know you are not trying to offend me. And I expect to be challenged. None of us should expect people to agree with everything we say. It does not upset me at all. In fact, we are told to challenge everything we are told when it comes to scripture, just like the Bereans.

Lastly, you say "Forgiveness is based on being SORRY for what you did and try to make amends (30 pieces of silver). God is the Judge. Ephesians 4:32."

I'll agree with that on a human level, but not spiritual. God does not expect me to try and make amends for my sin.

I hope I sufficiently answered your question. You have a great day!

(Part 3:)

Acts 1:18 says, Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

You ask me if I know of anyone that can commit suicide by this process? (It is possible).

You say that Acts 1:18 states that Judas "bowels gushed out." This means that Judas was disemboweled. (Well, it does not say that someone disemboweled him). Acts 1:18 indicates to me that he committed suicide.

I've heard of three theories as to how he died. Number one, he hung himself but slipped out of the rope and burst open on the rocks below. The second theory is that he hung himself and his dead body became bloated from the heat and that he burst open while hanging. That is pretty "far-fetched!"

But the archaeological accounts actually say that people who in those days committed suicide, they would go up on a cliff or hillside and they throw themselves down on a pole. They impaled themselves. That's what they believed Judas did. He slit himself right in two and his bowels gushed out. And this was done in the field that the priests purchased with the money that Judas gave back.

What is my understanding of the unpardonable sin? First of all, Jesus says that no one can come to Him unless the Father draws them to Him. A person cannot come to Christ for salvation unless the Holy Spirit first convicts them of their sin and their need of a Saviour. So when the Holy Spirit convicts a person's heart and shows them that they are a sinner in need of a Saviour, and that person fully rejects the testimony of God's Spirit and their need for Christ, they have committed what is called the unpardonable sin. It's when a person rejects the testimony of God's Spirit showing them their need for Christ. That person cannot be forgiven for that!

(More to follow)

(Part 2:)

To answer your other questions, what I am saying about the words Metanoeo and Metamelomai is that even though they are both translated into English as repent, in the Greek they have different meanings, otherwise every Greek word for our English word repent would be the same. One means to just be sorry for the consequences of your actions, and the other speaks of repentance as in making a decision to change the direction of your life, and surrendering your life to Christ. When a person is told they need to repent from their sin, that is the word Metanoeo. When a person is simply sorry for committing a sin, that is the word Metamelomai.

Is the Bible lying? (No) Was Judas NOT sorry for what he did? (Judas was sorry). Why was the statement made? (Perhaps Judas didn't know that Jesus would freely surrender Himself to this mob that came to take Him. Perhaps maybe Judas thought they would never be able to take Jesus? After 3 years of hanging around Christ, Judas must have seen the miracles and the power Jesus had?). I'm just guessing on this as the bible does not tell us what was on Judas' mind. We do know he was sorry. It must have been a pretty sad thing to see, them carrying away Jesus, and knowing you were the one who told this mob where to find Him).

Am I sure enough to claim as fact that Judas was sorry but never repented? (I'll just say that I am comfortable saying that.) When it comes to God's word, I am very careful about sharing something and claiming it as "fact." That is one of the scariest things for me, is that I might share something with someone, and mislead them. I know I will stand before God one day and have to give an account for the things I tell people here, or anywhere else for that matter.

Was I there? (That's funny!) I've been called old before, but I'm not that old!

Do I know the heart of Judas? (Only Jesus truly knows the heart of man, and He says our hearts are desperately wicked).

Hello again Greg,

You are asking a lot so I will have to break this up to give you an answer. Hopefully I can cover what you're asking. As far as Jesus being God and God being Jesus, I understand that you don't believe that. It's not for me to try and convince you otherwise so I will leave it at that. I do believe Jesus is God.

You seemed to place a lot of emphasis on my use of the word Teknon. You're saying that I am claiming that Teknon is not defined as "child," and asking what my definition of teknon is?

I did not make that claim. I know what Teknon means. I don't just look up individual words in a concordance. I actually read Greek. I have a Textus Receptus, and I do read from it on occasion.

Greg, I was not incorrect on my use of the word Teknon. Please re-read my response. I was simply wondering why you used the word KALOS for child. (Please re-read your post). I know Teknon is used for child. Kalos is not a child. Teknon is a child born by natural human birth. That's why Jesus is never referred to as a Teknon. I believe it was you that got the word for child wrong, not me, although I believe you accidentally said that Kalos meant child. Kalos is a Greek word that means good.

Thank you taking the time to look up the Strong's definition of the word Teknon. You ask me where I got my definition of the word Teknon from? Well, I didn't look it up in the Strong's Concordance. I read it from the Greek text and I already knew what the word meant. I didn't need to look it up.

(More to follow)

The definition of a Christian is a "Christ follower" and the disciples literally did that, so I believe they were Christians. I believe Judas in betraying Jesus he stopped following Him, so I believe that he brought on himself consequences with eternal ramifications. To this day, I've never met anyone named Judas. What he did was so despicable and evil that even atheists avoid that name.

Jesse,

You state,

"Just one more thing kind sir,

I am not too sure that I can say with certainty that Judas did not commit the unpardonable sin. There is nothing in scripture that would have me to believe that Judas ever surrendered His life to Christ or that he was a true follower. Sure, Christ chose him as one of the 12. But Judas was evil. I believe Christ chose an evil man to fulfill the prophecy saying He would be betrayed. Jesus chose an evil man to fulfill that role and Judas was that man.

What is your understanding of the unpardonable sin?

Look at Matthew 12:32, Mark 3:28, Luke 12:10.

Are you sure enough with your newly acquired understanding of a few Greek words to claim that, as you state, "Judas never surrendered his life to Jesus" and that Judas was "never a true follower"?

I have never met someone that is pure evil, have you? Even Satan at one time was good, even "perfect" ( Ezekiel 28:12-15).

So kind sir, please do not get too upset when you are challenged on Scriptural matters. I was not trying to offend, just understand.

Just one more thing my friend: Forgiveness is based on being SORRY for what you did and try to make amends (30 pieces of silver). God is the Judge. Ephesians 4:32.

A born again Christian should know peace in their heart by the Holy Ghost. If this peace is lacking then there should be grave concern. The Holy Spirit guides but never forces a soul to obey and willful disobediences will cause the Holy Spirit to pull away and taking it's peace with it. Repentance will be needed to reclaim the peace again. This Holy Spirit will not rest upon a believer that continues to willfully follow the ways of the world which includes violence in words, thoughts or actions. This peace provided by the comforter will give more grace for more sanctification in our lives which may sting, yet the peace is worth it all. However if a Christian continues to willfully ignore the promptings of the Holy Spirit and continues to press forward without the peace they will be most miserable and their life witness inconclusive leaving others to doubt the truth of the Gospel and the eternal, everlasting life in Jesus Christ. True Christians are the most accountable people on earth.

Jesse,

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You stated; Judas was sorry for what he did (Metamelomai), and he ultimately ended up committing suicide. But he never repented (Metanoeo). He never surrendered his life to Christ. How does Acts 1:18 tell us that Judas had help with his death? Can you see how people might say Judas repented just like the bible tells us to do? Well, he didn't!

#3338 metamellomai- to care afterward, i.e. to repent; and is used for the word REPENT.

#3340 metanoeo- to think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider (morally, feel compunction); and is used for the word REPENT.

Not sure where you are going with this one either?

Is the Bible lying? Was Judas NOT sorry for what he did? Why was the statement made?

You state; Judas was sorry but he never repented!

Are you sure enough to claim that as fact?

Were you there?

Do you know the heart of Judas?

You then state: How does Acts 1:18 tell us that Judas had help with his death?

Acts 1:18 states that Judas "bowels gushed out." This means that Judas was disemboweled.

I know of no person that can commit suicide by this process.

Do you?

And no one would do this to him if he was ALREADY dead.