Discuss Isaiah 13 Page 4

Jesse,

You stated "I just recently read here someone asking how can Jesus be God, when the bible says He is God's Son? Well, in English, we know what the word son means. But the Greek uses a completely different word. The word Son when applied to Jesus is the word Huios. Son by natural birth is a totally different word. It is the word Teknon."

The "read here someone" part was likely me.

I have recently asked on this website why people believe that Jesus is God and God is Jesus.

I don't believe that, and that was the point I was trying to make.

You responded: You ask "Does this understanding of the Greek words mean that God is Jesus and Jesus is God?" I would have to ask who did Jesus claim to be? Jesus claimed to be the Son of God. To the Jews, the phrase "Son of God" was the same as being equal to God Himself. If you recall, they were about to take up stones to kill Jesus for who He claimed to be. Jesus didn't say "Oh no guys, before you stone me, I think there might be a misunderstanding here on who I am claiming to be."

What "I recall" is that the people accusing Jesus were WRONG. The misunderstanding was with what THEY understood, not with what Jesus was saying.

I know what Jesus said. So again, I will ask, what are you trying to say?

And by the way, since you claim teknon is not defined as "child," what is your definition of teknon?

Strong's #5043 teknon- CHILD, son, daughter, offspring, descendant: It is used for the following words; children, son, sons, child, children's, daughters. The word is a derivative of the word "tiko" (#5088) which means to "give birth," "to bear", "to produce."

Sure looks like teknon = child.

So I will ask you, where did you get your definition of the word teknon?

Adam, do you consider the disciples as Christians? My understanding of a Christian is one who has repented of his sins, born again by the Spirit of God & has the Spirit indwelling Him. The disciples were simply followers of Jesus, listening & learning from Him about Kingdom Life & the purpose of their Master's coming. They were being tutored & ministered to, to the end that when the Spirit came upon them & indwelt them, they would then do great exploits in Christ's Name reaching out from Jerusalem to the world when Jesus was no longer with them. Without that indwelling, they were simply dedicated disciples but still carnal in disposition. The fact that they went out to do great things in ministry prior to Christ's crucifixion ( Lk 9:1), was a temporary enduement of power given by Christ. The permanent power ("the power from on high" Lk 24:49) would only come at Pentecost. I see them as non-Christians in the Gospels & then as Christians after the Spirit of God baptized them & empowered them for life even to their willing martyrdom.

Christians who "want the best of both worlds" aren't Christians. You have said correctly, "You're either following Jesus or you're following the world. It can't be both." ( Mt 6:24). To be a Christian, even a faltering Christian, there must be the Spirit's conviction & work in the heart. I can't imagine that a Christian can be such & still behave like the unsaved. Who would he be fooling?

You: "Technically, salvation isn't given anyway until we're judged after this life, but its correct to consider oneself saved by grace as long as they're following Christ." Actually, this is what makes the Christian different to the adherents of other religions. They wait in hope till the last day, at God's final analysis & judgement, to know their eternal position. But what makes Christians different is that "we may know we have eternal life" ( 1 Jn 5:11-13). And this knowledge & confidence is right now: our faith & acceptance based on Christ's Work.

The reference columns points to a prophesy concerning Judas. I wrote of it; it's buried way back in the history pages.

If there was a tolerant feeling towards Judas; Jesus would've known what he was going to do.

That's the first time I've heard that exchange explained this way. What a blessing! Thank you.

Jesse, that was a wonderful insight (via Greek) into such a compelling portion of Scripture: I would never have considered the actual meaning of this discourse you presented, so this was quite a revelation. We do have the Greek Lexicon within reach but it's a case of putting in the time & effort to examine specific verses from it. Many thanks again.

Chris,

Love is another great example. For a long time I wondered why Jesus asked Peter three times "Peter, do you love me?" You would think once or twice to confirm would have been enough, but a third time? Someone told me it was because Peter denied Jesus three times, and that's why Peter was asked three times do you love me. It sounded okay at the time.

But that's not why at all. Again, we see love being used in John Chapter 21 and we know what love is from an English standpoint. But Jesus asks the first time "Simon, do you love me more than these? Jesus uses the word Agape. Peter responds using the word Phileo for love. Both words are translated love in English but have different meanings in Greek. The second time Jesus asks, He again uses Agape, and Peter responds with Phileo. I remember when Jesus told Peter he would deny Him three times, and Peter's response was that he would never deny Jesus.

So Jesus asks Peter twice "Do you love me? Do you Agape me?" Peter responds again, you know I love you, you know I Phileo you.

Here's the real kicker. The third time Jesus asks "Do you love me," Jesus uses Phileo. Jesus used Agape the first two times and Peter responded with you know I Phileo you. So now Jesus is really challenging Peter by saying do you really Phileo me? And Peter gives the most perfect response imaginable. Peter says "Lord, you know all things!"

During this whole exchange between Peter and Jesus, they both used the word love, but they each used a different word which gives us the true meaning of what that exchange was all about. This is why I love the Greek.

Agape is the highest form of sacrificial love there is and it is produced by God's Spirit. Phileo is human love and affection. Peter wasn't about to make the same mistake again by responding back to Christ and saying yes I Agape you. Peter realizes that Jesus knows his heart.

I didn't mean for this to be so long but you brought up a great example and I wanted to share this. God Bless!

Hello Debbie,

It's nice to see someone here who shares the same last name as myself. Yes, I agree that God knew Judas would choose evil over Christ. In fact, I think that's why Judas was chosen. God needed someone evil to carry out an evil deed. And yes, the bible does tell us when Satan entered into Judas. But what I notice is that this was all in God's timing.

Here's the scary part of this whole thing. Remember when they were all reclining at the table and Jesus said didn't I choose you 12, and one of you is a devil? One of you will betray me. Neither of them knew who it was. They all asked "is it I?" Even Judas asked the same question. You would think that after three years together, and now Jesus is saying one of you will betray me, that they would be able to guess who it might be. But they didn't know. That's the scary part. This tells me that we can have people in the church who look like followers, act like followers, and claim to be true believers, but are not. What a scary thought!

Yes, Judas was part of the 12. But did you know he was a thief? He was in charge of the money bag and he was stealing the money from it. This would be like one of us stealing money from the collection offering at our church. Judas was evil the entire time. How do you correlate Judas as proof that someone who is a follower and serves Christ can fall away from God? I don't see Judas as being a true follower or one who served Christ.

What I notice in the gospels is that every time Jesus shared an intimate and private moment with a few of His disciples, it was usually with Peter, James, and John. They seemed to be part of the "Inner circle" so to speak when it came to being close to Jesus. Never once do I see Jesus sharing an intimate moment with Judas.

As far as free will, you please share with me your full understanding of free will. I would like to know your understanding of free will before I respond with my thoughts on free will.

Let's fight the good fight! Love our neighbors as ourself and remain reconciled in the blood of the Lamb until our last breath.

I saw this list the other day and was floored with the number of names. When I pray I'm listening for the FRUIT name; what "it" does. Some of these preside over drug addiction(sorcery).

I had 2 brothers die from drugs.

I'm thinking I'm blessed to be alive. I've seen stuff... Thank God for warring angels.

**********

Jezebeth - (Unk) the demon of falsehoods.

Kali - (Hindu) daughter of Shiva, the destroyer. Kali ("the black one") is the Hindu mother goddess, symbol of dissolution and destruction.

Kasdeya - The Book Of Enoch refers to this demon as the "fifth satan"

Kobal - (Unk) Hell's entertainment liason.

Kostchtchie - (Russian) a goblin of death.

*Leonard - (see also Urian german) Demon of sorcery . Appears as a giant black goat.

Leviathan - (Hebrew) the serpent, the raging sea. Snake worship. Water Elemental. Grand admiral of hell. Seen as androgynous.

*Lilith - (Hebrew) in Hebrew myth - Adams first wife. Later wife to Satan. According to many demonologists, Lilith presides over Succubi. Lilith is said to attempt to destroy newborn infants. For this reason the practice of writing a formula to drive Lilith away on all four corners of the birth chamber was adopted by the Jews. Lilith is the princess of hell.

Loki - (Teutonic) devil.

Lucifer - (Roman) The Light Bringer. Air Elemental. Often misconstrued as being Satan. They are two seperate demons.

Lucifuge, Lucifuge Rofocale - (Roman) devil.

Malphas - (Unk) Grand president of the infernal regions. Appears as a crow.

*Mammon - (Aramaic) god of wealth & profit.

Mandragoras - (Unk) FAMILIAR demons. They are attributed to the mandrake root and considered gifts from Satan to the SORCERER who conjures them.

This is a sliver of the list. These things are real. I have to pray. Are we experiencing a new release of these things on people?

Backslid, fence sitting people? People who don't read their Bibles for themselves?

I agree. This is one of many examples in the Bible of Christians losing their salvation. Technically, salvation isn't given anyway until we're judged after this life, but its correct to consider oneself saved by grace as long as they're following Christ (a Christ follower). The problem is I hear Christians want the best of both worlds- they want salvation and they want an unlimited excuse to sin and to indulge in all earthly pleasures. Those two things are incompatible just as Jesus said. You're either following Jesus or you're following the world. It can't be both. Most people will go to hell as so many parables explain, so I personally am not going to take any chances.

Well, God knew that Judas would choose evil over Christ. However, according to the Bible satan didn't enter into Judas until the last supper when Jesus dipped the bread and handed it to Judas. prior to that Judas was one of the twelve that was chosen by Jesus and he also was sent out by Jesus with the other twelve to save people, and heal people. So to me this is Proof that God gives man free will to choose. Also this to me prove that someone who is a follower and serves Christ can fall away from God.

Jesse, thank you again for imparting your knowledge for our learning also. The other thing I learn here, is that our English language often lacks specific words to describe the intended meaning. The usual one we refer to is: Love. In English, we are compelled to qualify it if we are to accurately convey our meaning. Whereas in Greek & I'm sure in some other languages, a specific word for it has already been established. It must be quite a rich experience reading the Scriptures in Greek (& Hebrew of course), as one can then 'enter' the heart of the writer & make the reading rich in our minds.

Of course, we all have something to share with each other, & hopefully some needed wisdom & guidance to others in the future, whom the Lord might lead to this Site to get some answers. I see a real on-going ministry here for each one of us: being available to the Lord to be used to help someone else & to learn ourselves. I certainly don't regard myself as having anymore knowledge than another, indeed, the more I study the Scriptures, the more apparent is my ignorance. I learn much from what others share here & particularly the varied opinions & determinations given, information that sometimes I've never contemplated. Yet, from sharing in written form we miss out receiving the intended expression as we would when making eye contact, with intonations, quick clarifications, interjections, etc., so therein lies an unavoidable weakness which sometimes causes us to think of someone writing in an inappropriate way. The Lord indeed bless you in your life & ministry to us & others.

Just one more thing kind sir,

I am not too sure that I can say with certainty that Judas did not commit the unpardonable sin. There is nothing in scripture that would have me to believe that Judas ever surrendered His life to Christ or that he was a true follower. Sure, Christ chose him as one of the 12. But Judas was evil. I believe Christ chose an evil man to fulfill the prophecy saying He would be betrayed. Jesus chose an evil man to fulfill that role and Judas was that man.

Hi Greg,

The word Huios changes my understanding because it is the only word for our English word son that is applied to Jesus. He is never called a Teknon (son). Jesus is always called the Huios of God. A Huios is someone who stands in line to inherit all things from the Father. That is Jesus Christ. The word Kalos does not mean child so I am not sure what you're asking?

You ask "Does this understanding of the Greek words mean that God is Jesus and Jesus is God?" I would have to ask who did Jesus claim to be? Jesus claimed to be the Son of God. To the Jews, the phrase "Son of God" was the same as being equal to God Himself. If you recall, they were about to take up stones to kill Jesus for who He claimed to be. Jesus didn't say "Oh no guys, before you stone me, I think there might be a misunderstanding here on who I am claiming to be."

The Textus Receptus uses more than one word for repent. In Judas' case, in Matthew 27:3 it says Judas repented himself. Now if I stop right there, it looks like since he repented, maybe he was saved. The Greek text uses the word Metamelomai.

Metanoeo means you are repenting of the very life and lifestyle, and the actions that you've committed, and Metamelomai means that you feel bad about the consequences. Again the word used for Judas was Metamelomai. I'm sure he felt sorry for what he did and the consequences of his actions. That is quite obvious to see as he threw the 30 pieces of silver at the priest's feet and said he didn't want it. Well, the priests couldn't put it back into the treasury because it was blood money. So they went outside the city and purchased a field with that money.

Judas was sorry for what he did (Metamelomai), and he ultimately ended up committing suicide. But he never repented (Metanoeo). He never surrendered his life to Christ. How does Acts 1:18 tell us that Judas had help with his death? Can you see how people might say Judas repented just like the bible tells us to do? Well, he didn't!

Eating honey out of an unclean (dead animal) carcass is a sin and unholy!!

Greetings to you brother,

My original question is why the use of my & mine as both possessive adjectives and before the same word "hurt".

With the greatest of respect to you: the brother in India is correct ! Why?

'Thy' and 'my' is used with a consonant and 'thine' is used with a vowel sound or as a possessive pronoun: This is thine and this is mine etc. Your(s) is the old or Modern English plural and which we still occasionally use in certain parts of the north of England: thy and thine can still be heard. In my Midland dialect we use 'Yaou' singular you and 'Yuz' which is the plural form of 'You'.

I agree; English is confusing ...!

Bro. Gereshom

Jesse,

I completely agree with you. Understanding Biblical Hebrew and Greek is essential to gaining a deeper understanding of Scripture.

I have a couple of questions.

How does the word "huios" meaning "a son" and "kalos" meaning a "child" change your understanding of Scripture?

Does this understanding of the Greek words mean that God is Jesus and Jesus is God?

The word for "repented" means to "care afterwards, i.e. regret." (Strong's #3338).

If Judas did not repent as "we as believers understand repentance to mean," what does "regret" mean to you? If forgiveness is based upon repentance, why could he not be forgiven? Judas was not a non'believer in Jesus.

Judas did not commit the unpardonable sin, and he had help with his death ( Acts 1:18).

Thanks, Chris,

Learning to read Greek has been such a blessing. There are several places in the Greek text where different words are used but are translated as the same word in English. Not just the word carnal, because we see the word carnal in English and we automatically think that it is bad. But words like good, repent, son, and several others, when we see those words in English, we know what good means, we know what repent means, and we know what son means in English.



I just recently read here someone asking how can Jesus be God, when the bible says He is God's Son? Well, in English, we know what the word son means. But the Greek uses a completely different word. The word Son when applied to Jesus is the word Huios. Son by natural birth is a totally different word. It is the word Teknon.



Jesus said why did you call me good? There is only one who is good and that it God. Now wait a minute, I know some good people. I think the people here on this forum are good people. But one might argue that Jesus said only God is good. Okay, that is true. Only God is Agathos (Good). People can be good also (Kalos).

Repent? Someone asked me (Not here) if Judas was saved because the bible says that he repented. Again, the Greek text did not say he repented like we as believers understand repentance to mean. The word repent used for Judas was the word Metamelomai, which means Judas was sorry. He did not repent as in making a decision to change the direction of his life and surrender to Christ. The repentance we know and understand is the word Metanoeo. These are just a few words that literally change the meaning of a verse or passage that I've come to know in my study of the Greek text. I'm happy to share my understanding, and I have been built up by reading the things you share. You have a vast wealth of knowledge and understanding that I hope to obtain someday. But I know that only comes from the Lord. And He's only going to give me what my little pea brain can handle!

That is Revelation all about God and the forces of darkness and when God gave John a vision not the one that baptized Jesus he saw a new earth and a new heaven.

For that God caused Satan "Because you have done this you wil move on your belly and eat dust all he days of your life and a woman's son shall destroy your works.

Ye, thy, nor.

But I don't understand how you should not touch unclean things.

Jesus said unto them "I am the way truth and the life nobody cometh to my father but through me.

Peter was in Joppa then God gave him a vision a sac from heaven dropped saying "Kill eat" then Peter said the Jewish law said that we should not eat unclean animals.

This is an example of the peculiarities of English, especially when we see it expressed as they did in 'olden' days. They are similar to the words: 'Thou' , 'Thy' and 'Thine'. We easily understand it in modern English as, 'You' , 'Your' and 'Yours' when read in a sentence. When attending an Assembly in India, I was always amused (not in judgemental way, of course), when the brother sharing from the Word, always spoke of 'Thine Holy Word or Thine Holy Child', when he should have used the singular, 'Thy'. But to those who were none the wiser, his preaching tended to appear better endowed using 'Thine'.

So, in Psalm 35:4 & 26, we read 'my' and 'mine' & it becomes a little confusing with its use. The word, 'my' tells us that David is speaking about the 'hurt' = injury or death, that his enemies were planning to give him. Whereas 'mine' in v 26, speaks about them rejoicing in the 'hurt' that they had already afflicted him with & for which he was suffering. I hope you can see the difference in the usage of these words here.

That was very interesting & informative Jesse - I didn't know that nor did I see the any difference in the word, along with many other folk I'm sure. A good exercise & encouragement to textual examination, & of course, knowing Greek, helps. Appreciated your knowledge here.

Michael,

Paul wrote 1 Corinthians as a correctional letter to a carnal church. That was their spiritual condition. Paul had evangelized in Corinth during his second missionary journey and many were saved at that time. But there was a lot of corruption in the church in Corinth and Paul wrote the letter to answer a lot of questions the church there had.

Now the verses you listed where Paul begins by saying What?, I'm not sure if he's scolding them or asking it this way as if to say this is something you should know by now.

Remember, Paul evangelized there earlier. But 3 to 5 years later they have all these problems in the church and they have a lot of questions for Paul.

Remember I said they were a carnal church? Did you know that a Christian can be carnal and it be completely normal? But there is also an abnormal carnal.



There are two Greek words for carnal. The only difference in the two words is one letter. We have Sarkinos, and Sarkikos. It is the word for flesh. That's what the word carnal means. Sarkinos is normal. Sarkikos is abnormal.

Paul told them in 1 Corinthians Chapter 3 that when he first came to them that he could only feed them with milk and not meat. He said because they were yet carnal, and he used the word Sarkinos. It was normal because they were newborn babes in Christ. As newborn believers, they could only handle the milk of the word.

But now 3 to 5 years later Paul is writing to them and basically saying that by now they should be more established as a church, but they are still carnal, only this time the word Sarkikos is used, abnormal carnal.

So Paul wrote this letter as a correctional letter to a carnal and corrupt church. I hope I have made some sense out of this and I hope this answers your question.

If anything, I've shared some Greek with you. We see the English word carnal and we automatically think that it is bad. But in the Greek, there is a normal carnal (Sarkinos), and an abnormal (Sarkikos).

Hurricane season is starting early.

Hebrews 12:25 and 1 Corinthians 10:13 are the strongest scriptures for not committing suicide.

If one is going to throw their lives away, why not give that life to Jesus? Give your life to Him, and take Jesus's Life so you can live. Call on Jesus and receive help.

1 Corinthians 10:13

There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a WAY TO ESCAPE, that ye may be able to bear it.

1 Corinthians 3:16-17 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Ecclesiastes 7:17 Be not over much wicked, neither be thou foolish: why shouldest thou die before thy time?

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

James 4:7-10 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Romans 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

John 16:33 - These things I have spoken unto you, that IN ME you might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Proverbs 8:36

But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

If they will trust Jesus and be born again

John 3, and receive the Holy Spirits baptism; God will turn your spirit ON and you will experience a new, different kind of life. People who are alive spiritually can suddenly HEAR the voice of their Heavenly Father, speaking to them through their innermost being. The Holy Spirit comes alongside to Comfort and protect the new Life. Do it.

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It's speaking on his enemies planning or attempting his destruction.

Many people experience that emotion. We can't all make reconciliation with enemies. Can't run away or take a nap to block it out.

Enemies can be in our minds or real.

Confrontation, with God, is the better choice. Best way to defeat an enemy is listen to what God says.

The enemy of our souls is satan. He's a hunter of souls. The fight is spiritual. You can't see your enemy, but you Know that it's there. That's why God tells us in Ephesians 6, to suit up with armor.

Did Samson commit suicide?

Judges 16:28 And Samson called unto the LORD, and said, O Lord GOD, remember me, I pray thee, and strengthen me, I pray thee, only this once, O God, that I may be at once avenged of the Philistines for my two eyes.

Judges 16:29 And Samson took hold of the two middle pillars upon which the house stood, and on which it was borne up, of the one with his right hand, and of the other with his left.

Judges 16:30 And Samson said, Let me die with the Philistines. And he bowed himself with all his might; and the house fell upon the lords, and upon all the people that were therein. So the dead which he slew at his death were more than they which he slew in his life.

Hebrews Chapter 11:30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.

31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.

32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and [of] Barak, and [of] Samson, and [of] Jephthae; [of] David also, and Samuel, and [of] the prophets:

33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,

Samson killed himself along with the Philistines and he is in the Hebrews faith chapter.

Greetings in the name of Jesus Christ.

Do you mind explaining please the use of "my hurt" and "mine hurt" in Psalm 35 vv 4, 27

Bless you,