Discuss Isaiah 9 Page 5

William, may the Spirit grace you with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

Revelation 12:7 And there was WAR IN HEAVEN.......

Revelation 1:1 .....and sent and signified (or symbolic of) it by his angel....

Revelation 1:3 ....for the time is at hand....

Revelation is difficult at best to understand because most want believe the above two verses. The words were just as true for readers in Johns time as they are to us in our time and will be to those in the future who read them. The war in heaven (which began after Christ was crucified) was happening in Johns time just as it it happening today and will continue happening as long as there is a tomorrow.

Now, with the working of the Spirit let's see if by using other verses as the KEYS TO THE KINGDOM we can come to the truth about the WAR IN HEAVEN.

Luke 17:21 .....the kingdom of heaven is in YOU.....

2 Corinthians 12:2 ....such an one caught up to the THIRD HEAVEN.

1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and the Spirit of God DWELLETH IN

YOU?

There is a natural heaven, but an a symbol it represent us (WHERE GOD DWELLS)

Matthew 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the SPIRIT OF GOD, then the KINGDOM OF GOD IS COME UNTO YOU.

Revelation 12:7 ....and there was war in heaven (in you)...

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out..

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice (the Holy Spirit) saying in heaven (in you), now is salvation, and strength, and the KINGDOM OF OUR GOD..

Luke 10:17-18 And he said unto them (the seventy he sent out to cast out devils), I beheld SATAN as lighting fall FROM HEAVEN (from those that Satan was cast out of).

2 Corinthians 10:4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God (Spirit) to the pulling down strong holds (traditions of man).

Isaiah 9:5 For every battle of the (natural) warrior is with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood; but this (spiritual battle) shall be with (spiritual) burning and FUEL of (spiritual) FIRE.

Barbara, the Spirit is gracing you with HIS wisdom and His Understanding. What the Spirit is revealing to you about the armies described in Revelation 19:14 is correct, we are those armies. The armies described in Revelation are much different than the armies we know which are made up of men in their natural state.

1 Corinthians 15:46 Howbeit that WAS NOT FIRST which is spiritual, but that which is NATURAL; and afterwards that which is SPIRITUAL.

1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown (at natural birth) a NATURAL body; it is raised (at Christ resurrection) a SPIRITUAL body (we are delivered into this body the moment we depart our natural body). There is a NATURAL body, and there is a SPIRITUAL body.

John 16:21 A woman (the church) when she is in travail hath sorrows (suffers in the flesh), because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she rememberth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world.

There are many, many symbols that describe the called out: the elect, the saints, the anointed ones, the church, the temple, the house of God, the trees, the books, the rivers, the streams, the mountains, the house of Israel, the house of Jacob, the chosen, the called, the faithful, the horses, the chariots and many more. When the Spirit causes you to understand the symbols it becomes easier for the Spirit to reveal His truths.

Isaiah 9:5 For every (natural) battle of the (natural) warrior is with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood; but this (spiritual battle) shall be with (spiritual) BURNING and FUEL of (spiritual) FIRE.

Isaiah 9:19 and the PEOPLE shall be the FUEL of the FIRE

Isaiah 4:3-6 (vs 4)When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion (another symbol of the called out) and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem (another symbol of the called out) from the midst thereof by the SPIRIT OF JUDGEMENT and by the SPIRIT OF BURNING.

This is what the armies (the ones gone before us) are doing.

Revelation 11:2 FORTY TWO MONTHS

Revelation 11:2 But the court which is without the (spiritual) temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city (new Jerusalem) shall they tread under foot forty two months.

Forty two months is the three and one half years of Christs ministry. John the Baptist to Jesus crucifixion.

Daniel 12:11 And the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that MAKETH desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days (forty two months or three and one half years).

Did you notice that the abomination that MAKETH desolate was set up at the same time the daily sacrifice was taken away and replaced by the ONCE FOR ALL sacrifice of Christ.

After Christ resurrection the treading under foot or the (spiritual) holy city (new Jerusalem) by the Gentiles became a lost cause.

Revelation 17:14 These (horns) shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them....(spiritual warfare) 2 Corinthians 10:4 Isaiah 4:4 Isaiah 9:5

Revelation 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the BEAST, these (horns) shall hate the whore, and shall make her DESOLATE and NAKED, and SHALL EAT HER FLESH, and BURN HER WITH FIRE.

Perhaps these horn parallel or are a shadow of the horns of the alter in the old testament.

Revelation 17:17 For God hath put in their (horns) hearts to fulfil HIS WILL, and to agree, and give THEIR KINGDOM unto the beast, until the WORDS OF GOD BE FULFILLED.

O, what great Scriptures you've shared: John 17:5, Isaiah 9:6, Revelation 1:8.

What does one have to do to those portions to make it mean anything different than expressed so clearly here? How can Jesus dare say that He enjoyed God's Glory in Himself even before His Incarnation & indeed, before the creation of the worlds?

I think, many just have to make Him out to be a liar, as any normal reading of those Scriptures, shed great Light on a wonderful, glorious Truth. The fact that our salvation is real & secure is dependent on God coming in the flesh, by His Word - any other sacrifice would not cut it - we would still be in our sins, we would still need a yearly offering, & we would be in a desperate mental & spiritual state not knowing if we'll make it to Heaven. The fact that God has done it & given of Himself, gives us great joy & peace, & confidence in the Lord. It's all of Him - nothing of us. Praise be to Him alone.

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

When he was returned to his Glory he addresses his self the way he did in the old testament.

Isaiah 9:6 (KJV) For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, (((THE MIGHTY GOD, THE EVERLASTING FATHER, THE PRINCE OF PEACE ))).

Can someone tell me why is the SON called the everlasting FATHER in Isaiah 9:6??

Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, ((THE ALMIGHTY!!))

Here is how Almighty is defined in Revelation:

Greek:

Transliteration: pantokratr

Pronunciation: pan-tok-rat'-ore

Definition: From G3956 and G2904; the all ruling that is God (as absolute and universal sovereign): - Almighty Omnipotent.

KJV Usage: Almighty(9x), omnipotent(1x).

Occurs: 10

In verses: 10

"" ME AND MY FATHER ARE ONE""

2Peter Chapter2

Its a prophecy of the United States. King James bible came out in 1611. through the knowledge of the Lord and savior v. 20 we escaped from those that lived in error v.18 , those deceived by the false teachers of that time. We were promised liberty v 19 but instead were made merchandise through feigned words v 3. (Federal reserve, debt note, IMF , World bank S. Security act of 1933, Birth Cir. etc.) v. 10-15 These international banksters walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise the hierarchy of government which starts with the Almighty and the lord Jesus sitting at His right hand. (the original text of KJ Rom13)The government Isaiah 9:6 not the corruption within mystery babylon the mother of all harlots which is the only "church" and state AKA the Vatican and "holy see". The latter end is worse than the beginning v.20 so please understand what the falling away is. The apostasy or departure/rebellion of and from Gods word is starring us all in the face.

Isaiah 11:1,2: "And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD".

You probably know that this chapter is the prophecy from Isaiah about the coming Christ Jesus. Jesus, in His Humanity, takes His descendancy back to King David, to David's father, Jesse & all the way back to Adam. So, Isaiah sees this aspect of the Messiah, the Branch coming out of David's tree. Verse 2 onwards gives us a description of what Isaiah saw concerning Him: the God's Spirit would be upon Him (for His Holiness & Power in Ministry); Wisdom, Understanding, Counsel & Might would be also be the hallmarks of Messiah (& we know how well he spoke to all people, understanding the core of their needs & in wisdom & authority refuted the most intellectual of them); & holding God in continual awe & reverence. Verses 4 & 5 also speak of His acts of Righteousness.

As an addition to the above, we might think that Isaiah only saw the Messiah as a Man sent from God, as many even today believe him to be (i.e. the Son of God only but not God the Son). But Isaiah did see the Messiah as God coming in the flesh ( Isaiah 9:6,7 (His Name will be called The Mighty God & the Everlasting Father); 7:14 (where Immanuel means 'God is with us'); & 40:3, where John the Baptist would cry out, "Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for OUR GOD"). I hope this helps you in understanding this very important prophetical Book.

I think you're referring to Isaiah 8:19. If so, maybe if I gave a transliteration of that verse:

'When those that come to you & suggest you enquire after those who consult the spirit world: to the wizards who say they have the ability to see into the future or babble sounds imitating the spirits. Reject them. Shouldn't you rather be seeking after the Living God to worship Him & get His counsel? Does it make sense for the living to seek help & advice from those who have died?

I realize this is a loose & long translation, but I've written it so you can get a better understanding.

Isaiah 9:6 what does it mean when it says seek God for the living to the dead?

These are all verses directed to Yehsua below; My God John 10:28, Thy throne of God Heb 1:8

Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. John 20:28

1. Your throne, O God. ( Hebrews 1:8)

2. Thy throne, O God. ( Psalms 45:6)

3. the Word was God. ( John 1:1)

4. My God. ( John 20:28)

5. The mighty God. ( Isaiah 9:6)

6. God and Savior Jesus Christ. ( Titus 2:13)

7. the Lord God ... the Almighty. ( Revelation 1:8)

I really like Bob how you used 0 scriptures in your response!

Bob if Yeshua is less god then God the Father then are also you less human then your father!

Fred, the Spirit is gracing you with his understanding and his wisdom. My reply is not so much to you; but to others who read and respect your comments. Our process of dying to the flesh and being made alive by the Spirit is described throughout the word of God, but most are hidden in parables, metaphors, similitudes, proverbs, etc. This is the Spirit's doing because without the SPIRIT you can't understand.

Example:

Zachariah 14:12 And this shall be the plague (spirit not natural) wherewith the Lord (Spirit) will smite ALL the people that fought (spiritually not naturally) against Jerusalem (spiritual not natural); Their flesh shall consume away (spiritually not naturally) while they stand upon their feet......FLESH AND BLOOD CANNOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD.

Revelation is especially symbolic and hidden from natural eyes. It also describes how we die to the flesh.

Isaiah 9:5 For every (natural) battle of the warrior is with confused noise, and garments rolled in (natural) blood; but this (spiritual battle for the kingdom of heaven) shall be with (spiritual) burning and FUEL of (spiritual) fire.

Isaiah 9:19 .....and the people shall be as the FUEL of the (spiritual) fire.....

Isaiah 4:4 When the Lord (Spirit) shall have washed away the FILTH or the daughters of (spiritual) mount Zion, and shall have purged the blood of (spiritual) Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the SPIRIT of judgement , and by the SPIRIT of burning.

Hebrews 12:29 For our GOD (SPIRIT) IS A CONSUMING (SPIRITUAL) FIRE.

Revelation 9:18 By these three was a third part of man (those called) killed (they died to the flesh), by the (spiritual) fire (Christ now in the form of the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit), and by the smoke, and by the brimstone.....

Revelation 20:5 But the REST OF THE DEAD (those who have not yet died to the flesh) lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the FIRST RESURRECTION (therefore there had to be a FIRST DEATH.

May the Spirit grace you.

Brother Adam,

Here is biblical proof with context

Isaiah Prophesy

Isaiah 7:14 14Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Isaiah 9:6 6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 44:6 6Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Prophesy Fulfilled

Matthew 1:21 Context 20But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. 21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. 22Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet,

Revelation 22:13 13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

John 1:3 Context 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Titles used in the Bible = Word, God, Spirit, Holy Spirit, Redeemer, Almighty Father, I AM, First & Last, Wonderful Counselor, Lord, Alpha and Omega, etc = all these titles belong to JESUS.

For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace isaiah 9:6

Is this enough?

Check out the geneology of Genesis that portrays the gospel. Also God states ingenesis "Let s make man in Our image" not my image.

"There is not a single verse that says Jesus is God the Son" bla bla bla Son of God.. Here does it say straight out GOD, Almighty, Mighty GOD. This is not an eye problem but an heart problem for the deity of Yeshua The Messiah

1. Your throne, O God. ( Hebrews 1:8)

2. Thy throne, O God. ( Psalm 45:6)

3. the Word was God. ( John 1:1)

4. My God. ( John 20:28)

5. The mighty God. ( Isaiah 9:6)

6. God and Savior Jesus Christ. ( Titus 2:13)

7. the Lord God ... the Almighty. ( Revelation 1:8)

8. God and Savior Jesus Christ. ( 2 Peter 1:1)

"Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever, and justice is the scepter of Your kingdom. 9You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, Your God, has anointed You above Your companions with the oil of joy." Hebrews 1:8

Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. Psalm 45:6

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. John 20:28

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6

Waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ Titus 2:13 ( God, and, savior, our, Isous, Christou).

"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." Revelation 1:8

Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: 2 Peter 1:1

edited edition

Daniel. D

Isaiah 9:6

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

My dear friend, if you are posting questions so you can have a fight that is not good. Only dogs fight ( Revelation 22:15; Revelation 11:1-2). The word Elohim (God) is plural (Eloah being its singular) See: ( Genesis 1:2; Genesis 1:26; John 1:1; Isaiah 9:6; Deuteronomy 6:4). Your line of reasoning is the same as saying that while your mother and father are Williams, you are simply Kevin so you do not wear their title because you are only the son. There is God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. Please read Revelation 19:11-16, Revelation 1, Ezekiel 1, John 1. Read also the apostle Paul to the Phillipians (Philipians 2:12).

However, I will not continue this... Matthew 13:41. May God bless you.

"There is not a single verse that says Jesus is God the Son" bla bla bla Son of God.. Here does it say straight out GOD, Almight, Mighty GOD. This is not an eye problem but an heart problem for the deity of Yeshua The Messiah

1. Your throne, O God. Heb 1:8

2. Thy throne, O God. Ps 45:6

3. the Word was God. John 1:1

4. My Go.d John 20:28

5. The mighty. God Isa 9:6

6. God and Savior. Jesus Christ

7. the Lord God / the Almighty. Rev 1:8

8. God and Savior Jesus Christ. 2 Pet 1:1

"Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever, and justice is the scepter of Your kingdom. 9You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, Your God, has anointed You above Your companions with the oil of joy." Hebrews 1:8

Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. Psalm 45:6

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. John 20:28

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6

Waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ Titus 2:13

"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." Rev 1:8

Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: 2 Pet 1:1

Hello, the way I understand the Godhead and the 3 in 1, comes from a different angle. Remember we are crafter like Him let's look at Gods Body:(I understand He's Omni-all)

Here we see it says the fullness of what makes up God the Creator dwelled in the Lord Jesus Christ- Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Isa9:6 is very telling, look at all the names of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor (Holy Ghost), The mighty God, The everlasting Father (Also the Father), The Prince of Peace.

Counselor -

The everlasting Father

The mighty God

We see from scripture, unless I missed a spot but there is only 1 image of God, The Lord Jesus Christ

Col 1:15, 2cor 4:4

We humans are made in his Image AND Likeness.

What does this mean? Image-Body/Spirit Likeness-Character, Emotions, The soul.

It even says we have the 3 and they are 1 yet we are not 3 people.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Isa 9:6 says speaks of the Lords Spirit when it mentions He will be called Wonderful, Counselor

What about the soul? The Father? Jesus mentions His (The Father)"shape" being unknown

John 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

Col 1:15 calls Him "Invisible" Yet He is one with the Word made flesh, The Son

We are made in His Image and likeness, body soul and spirit

His Glory/Image/Majesty is displayed in the Lord Jesus Christ of whom is the

"Body" of God- Col 2:9,2 Cor 4:4, Col 1:15

Even the Lord Jesus Himself tells you unless He Himself is Being praised, Not the Father, nor the Spirit but HIM they are false look at what Joh 16:13,14 says about the Spirit of Truth.

There are Scriptures that indicate that Jesus will reign on the Throne of David but not about any co-regency with him.

Isaiah 9:7, "Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgement and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this."

Luke 1:32,33, "He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end."

David will rise again at the general resurrection & may even figure prominently under the ruler-ship of Christ, but it will only be Jesus as seen & worshipped at His Throne.

You're correct, those particular terms are not found in the Bible; only Son of God or Spirit of God. However, could it be that those terms actually imply a similar meaning?

For example, I point out a car to you which is parked kerbside. I tell you, "That's my car". How do you understand me? In the normal way, you will immediately assume that the car belongs to me. But actually it doesn't belong to me, it belongs to a friend, from whom I have loaned it. So which is correct? In a sense, both are correct: the car is mine because I have the key to it & I drive it - so it could be that I own it or I took loan of it - it's still mine to get inside & drive it.

The point I'm making is that whether Jesus is described as 'the Son of God' or 'God's Son' or 'God the Son', can still have the same meaning only if the Scriptures spoken about Him, warrant it. If we didn't have John 1:1-14, John 20:28, Isaiah 9:6, Titus 2:13, Colossians 2:9, Hebrews 1:1-8, John 10:30, 2 Peter 1:1, & others, given to us, then yes, you would be entirely correct to say that Jesus is just a created Being by God, thus to be called His Son.

So the question is not about the accuracy of the term 'God the Son', but rather what do people do with all the other Scriptures that point to Jesus being both the Son of God & God the Son? I have often asked people to exegete John 1:1-14 to me & they have failed to do so. I did see a Christadelphian article on it, & they say "the Word that became flesh was not the incarnate Son but the incarnate Word". Strange! If the Word became flesh & we know of no other human that became one from the Word of God, then it must apply to Jesus Who is God's Word made flesh & dwelt amongst us. I have no problem with this, but those who oppose this doctrine fail to provide an adequate explanation, rather either avoid such Scriptures or apply another interpretation to them to support their belief. Some might be convinced by this - others, reading the Word, remain unconvinced.

Steve, I think we've broached this matter before in our discussions. Whilst I believe in the complete Unity of God & that God is One, but from Him, we are taught from the Scriptures, proceed the Word & the Spirit. Though the original comment by Roy was one of 'fatherhood', I believe that the Word sent from God to become Man, expresses God's Fatherhood to His Son Jesus Christ. However, since the Unity of God has never been broken, the Son even at the Father's right Hand, remains wholly within the Unity of God & the full expression of His Person.

Of Jesus in the OT is written: Isaiah 9:6, Psalm 45:6,7 (cf Hebrews 1:8), Psalm 110:1, Daniel 7:13,14.

In the NT: John 1:1-14, Philippians 2:5-8, Titus 2:13 (cf John 20:28), 1 John 5:20 & many more.

So I don't believe it was the RCC or the Nicene Council that introduced the understanding of the Godhead, but what we see & learn from the Scriptures. But to say that Jesus is presently the Almighty God, without the presence of the Father in Heaven is wrong, as other Scriptures attest to it. The apostles & early Church believed in the deity of Christ & so we take it from there & hold onto it, even though our human understanding is limited & weak to understand the personality of God & His revelation to us.

The first line of the Bible states that heaven is created along with the creation of the earth ( Genesis 1). It is primarily God's dwelling place in the biblical tradition: a parallel realm where everything operates according to God's will.

In Genesis 1, much is written about heaven, firmament, dividing, etc. all those center of the page columns (abc notes) refer to other scriptures. You'll need a study Bible with that feature. Or...

You can go on Google and type in: charts of 3 heavens. NOT all of them are accurate according to scripture.

God is Spirit. He doesn't need to stand on something. The Holy Spirit is Spirit; same thing. In Genesis, Jesus's name is the Word.

See John 1:1-5

Philippians 2:8-10, 6 and 3:19

Revelation 19:13

Zechariah 13:7

Isaiah 9:6

All those scriptures may have reference notes to additional scriptures. You need a reference study Bible, to research deeply.

It takes determination to search out the mysteries of God.

Always ask the Holy Spirit to HELP you and TEACH you those mysteries. He's the Spirit of Christ; and a born again Christian has the Mind of Christ. You have everything you need when combined with Faith: faith that the Holy Spirit does what scripture says that He does. Pursue Him.

Mishael

He left in the clouds at the ascension. The angels told the witnesses that he will come back in the same manor as he left. Not on a computer but in the clouds. Enoch saw him returning with his saints. 31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. They are already in Heaven with him because he has met them in the air and Caught them Away or Raptured them off of the Earth Prior to the Great Tribulation.(He will not let Lucifer kick his bride around anymore) The Bride is in the Wedding Chamber with the Groom. He will be coming back with them and the Hosts of Heaven to set up his Kingdom on Earth for 1000yrs while Lucifer is enchained in the earth. The Bride or his Church or Body will assist in his ruling the Earth with an Iron Rod. Isaiah 9:6 6For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

El Gibbor from hebrew -Mentioned in Isaiah 9.6 Mighty-God points out to Jesus the Messaih.

Halleluyah!

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Rev. Autrey, indeed Isaiah 9:6 does say that (Jesus) will be called Everlasting Father & the Mighty God. He was & is every part that completes the Godhead as revealed to us. In Romans 8:9 we also read "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." Here Paul speaks of both God's Spirit & Christ's Spirit - self same Spirit without Whom, the Godhead would be incomplete & we would not be children of God, indwelt & sealed by Him.

And John 14:17, "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." If one removes God the Father & say that Jesus is now our God (post incarnation), then one is compelled to do likewise to His Spirit. If one does not do so, then we would have a Binity, & that too is unacceptable.

Re: John 1:1 ff: true, the Word of God is God - God cannot be seen without the His Word & His Spirit. But why should John say, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."? Wouldn't it be easier to say that "In the beginning God was there" & just leave off "the Word"? So just say, that "this God then became flesh & dwelt among us". That would easily transfer the position of God to Jesus on Earth. But maybe, the Word has something to do with that part of the Godhead that was sent to the Earth to become a man & to fulfil the Father's Will in bringing forth the Word to His people & be the sacrificial Lamb for His people.

Dear Chris:

Yes, I am saying to you that "there is no God in Heaven but Jesus!"



Let me explain:

In Isaiah 9:6 we read this of Jesus: "For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace, and the Mighty God. " Did you get that? This Scripture says that the child that was born to us that Christmas day is the Mighty God, and no amount of human reasoning can change it.



Luke 1:42-43 says this of this child: "Elizabeth gave a glad cry and said to Mary, YHWH God has blessed you above all other women, and your Child is blessed. What an honor this is, that the mother of God would visit me." Translated" The mother of the Mighty God.

So by saying that "He sent forth His Word clothed in flesh to do his will," you are going against everything that the prophet Isaiah and Elizabeth just said to us. Meaning, the "Word" mentioned in John 1:1 is not God's spoken word. It is God himself. So we can read verse 14 like this: "So Jesus (meaning God himself) became flesh and lived among us!"

See, what you are doing wrong is not understanding how God as Jesus speaks to us in the Gospels; i.e., in Trinitarian form. He speaks to us as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, all three names of the same God. This should not be surprising to us because as people made in Jesus' image, all three of our names refer to us.

So when Jesus says the "Father sent me" he is speaking of himself by his other name. But we call him Jesus because he wants us to.



To this end, we see YHWH God saying to Moses in Exodus 3:14, "Just tell them 'I Am' has sent you." But by God just giving Moses the unfinished name "I Am," we are left short of the full revelation. This is why we see Jesus in the Gospels finishing the revelation of the name he gave to Moses by saying, "I Am"... Jesus.

So yes, there is no God in heaven except Jesus!

Stay safe,

Rev. Autrey

Jesus Christ is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

1 John 5:7 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Isaiah 9:6

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

John 1:1-18

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

1 John 5:6-8

6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

John 14:9-12

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

The Lord Gods name is I AM that I AM which is translated (i will be what i will be) the Lord God always existed and never stopped existing( Exodus 3:14-15). Jesus Christ is our Lord ( Philippians 2:11). The holy spirit reveals who the Father and the son are ( 1 Corinthians 12:3). There are 3 that bear witness in heaven and all are one( 1 John 5:7). These verses should sum it up pretty well:

Isaiah 9:6

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Jesus Christ is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

John 1:1-18

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Dear Hugo,

Thank you for your respectful reply. I appreciate that. Some people are just looking to start quarrels and fights, but I now believe that is not your motive, but that you actually believe what you said to be true.

It sounds like you justified your belief by admitting that you don't believe the entire Bible, specifically 1 John 5:7, which you attempted to discredit. I believe the whole Bible including 1 John 5:7 as God's Word so I do not believe what you wrote. I think the bulk of your belief hinges on 1 verse Isaiah 9:6 which you strip out all the other meaning to focus on one word then conflate that word with God the Father then assume they are the same. This involves some mental gymnastics to come to your conclusion and I will prove how this is a logical fallacy. First you ignore all of Jesus' nicknames listed but zero in on 'everlasting father'. You then drop off the first word and and focus only on 'father' then you realize that God the father also has the word 'father' in it and assume they are the exact same being, despite billions of other fathers also existing on Earth. Does that mean all instances of 'father' in the Bible automatically mean God the father? Like Genesis 2:24 means to leave 'God the father' then? Obviously not. Genesis 9:18 says Ham is the father of Canaan- does this mean he's 'God the father' too like Jesus? If using the same logic this one is more likely to be conflated with God the father, because it directly says 'father' not 'everlasting father'- the one of many nicknames for Jesus. And again, Jesus praying to God the Father actually happened, and so Jesus obviously didn't pray to Himself. So, I think your position is refuted with scripture and logic, but if you don't believe parts of the Bible as you admitted then I can then see how you arrive at this distorted interpretation. I appreciate you sharing your interpretation, but I don't believe it's true. Have you prayed about this, to ask God for the truth? God bless you.

God bless you brother Adam

Thank you for you reply. To respond to your comments:

You ask where in the Bible does it say Jesus Christ is the name of the Father. The answer is: (directly) Isaiah 9:6 - He (Christ) shall be called the Father /// (indirectly) Acts 2:38 - Jesus Christ said to baptize in the name of the Father; the apostles baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

You quote 1John5:7. With all due respect, if you look it up, you will find that that verse was not in the Bible originally. The apostle John did not write it. Rather it was an addition by someone else around the year 1500.

You quote John 10:30, John 1:1, John 1:14: The spirit in Jesus is God. So of course Jesus can say that the Father and I are one. When a man says "I know", is it the body that knows? No, it is the spirit in the man that knows. Jesus Christ and God are one Spirit. /// The Word which was with God and became flesh is the Christ (a Spirit). Not the baby born in Bethlehem, but the Spirit inside that body.

You ask if Jesus prayed to Himself: That is absurd. The body called Jesus prayed to His Father whose Spirit was dwelling in Jesus just like it dwells in all sons and daughters of God.

You speak about Christians believing literally what the Bible says: This is NOT true. Think about things like female Christians cutting off their hair. Christians taking the Lord's Supper in the morning. Taking leavened bread instead of unleavened. Using juice instead of wine. Think about Christians not doing footwashing. Think about Christians saying it is okay to be gay. Saying it is okay for a woman to be a preacher. God have mercy upon us all.

Lastly, you ask about my motive: That is probably the hardest of your comments to respond to... To see if someone will be able to accept it.

Peace & Love in Christ