Discuss James 2 Page 15

Rom 10:17-So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Living: 2Co 5:7-(For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

Rom 1:17-For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Praying: Jude 1:20-But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Action: Here are some more faith scriptures for you to read and study. God Bless!

James 2:1-26 and the whole chapter of Hebrews 11.

Chris,

I generally agree with you concerning the Apocryphal books.

Please do not think that I am trolling you or nitpicking. It is absolutely not my intent at all.

I do, however, believe that it is the righteous works of Abraham that built his faith in God and in turn built God's faith in Abraham. (something like- those to whom much is given, much is expected- I forget the Book / verse.

As Jesus states: "For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works." ( Matthew 16:27)

When the Lord and Savior returns, He will happily be looking upon the good works of His faithful servants.

"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also" ( James 2:26), look at Romans 3:31, Galatians 3:12, James 2:18-20, etc.

Our FAITH is plainly seen through our righteous acts (WORKS) by obeying the LAWS of God (which do not apply to

usonly.when we don't break them).

Have you looked into the Dead Sea Scrolls?

We are saved unto a good work, not by good works are we saved!

Kim Burrow

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Paul also wrote that "the Law is not of faith: But the man that doeth them shall live in them" ( Galatians 10:12); quoted from Leviticus 18:5. And Paul immediately reminds us that "Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree" ( Galatians 10:13) quoted from Deuteronomy 21:23. Those that hang on trees have transgressed the Law. Paul uses two passages from the Law to show us that we cannot live without the Law?

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

The words of Jesus confirm the 10 Commandments found in the books of the LAW, Exodus 20:1-17, Luke 10:27.

The only people that do not NEED the Law are those that are not sinning. No matter how righteous we may think we are, we all sin every day and are made new (every day) through repentance and forgiveness.

Just because we have been brought to Christ does not mean that we cannot fall away again.

Hello What Works Should a Woman Bring Fourth? Bringing People To Christ Right?

Ann,

Should a person have to read how to be saved if they're already saved? It seems as though you are making an assumption that Adam is not saved? I've read most of his posts and I see no reason to doubt that he is saved. I would like to comment on the faith and works portion of your post if you don't mind. You say that for faith and works, it can't be both? I think that for a person who belongs to Christ, it is both.

Works show proof of faith. James 2:14 says, What doeth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him? Literally, can the faith save him? The question itself in Greek expects the answer no. Can the faith save him if he says he has faith but does not have works? The word works in the Greek text literally means activity.

If we put faith and activity together, we understand that if God's Spirit is present in us, there will be activity (Works). Works do not produce faith. But faith produces works. Martin Luther had problems with James because he said that James contradicted Paul's teachings because Paul said that we're justified, not out of works but out of faith. But James said if you don't have works you don't have faith. So it sounds like they are contradicting each other.

But Paul talked about the root of the tree that faith does not come from out of works. James on the other hand talked about the fruit of the tree. That is to say, if you have the faith of Jesus Christ, you will bear fruit (Works) from the Spirit of God.

Jesus said that in Matthew Chapter 7, by their fruit you shall know them. We don't produce fruit. God's Spirit in us produces fruit. And that fruit is evidenced by good works. Paul talked about the root (Christ) where salvation comes from. James talks about the activity (Works) of God's Spirit in a person's life. So I would say that for a true believer, there has to be both.

Yes, we are not saved by human works, but once we are saved, there will be activity (Works).

Hi Ann, this is a predictable discussion. I know all the verses you shared and agree with them, because I believe in the Bible- all of it, not just cherry picked verses. Have you read the entire chapter context around these verses? Because it completes the thought and explains what exactly it means. I can pluck out things too that only share part of the picture, like 1 Timothy 2:15.

You said something before worth analyzing: "FAITH or WORKS??? It CAN'T BE BOTH!"

Why not? Who said it can't be both? It is both. The Bible already says it's both and even already predicted this exact believe and refused it. James 2:17 says faith without works is dead- do you believe that? If not, what is your explanation for not believing this part of the Bible?

Since you believe Paul, do you believe what he wrote in Romans 7? He talked about his deep struggle in trying to avoid sin and do good. Why would he struggle if doing good isn't necessary one bit? He called himself captive (prisoner) of sin. He was in deep torment to try to do good. If no good works was necessary why didn't he instead just party and live a life of sin and not worry about spreading the gospel, if he was already 'saved'? The Bible makes the answer clear.

James 2:19 - even demons believe in God and Jesus, including satan. So, if all that's needed to be saved and go to heaven is to believe does that mean satan will go to heaven? If not, why? Hitler attended church and might have been a Christian in his early years, so will we see him in heaven too, despite Romans 2:6?

Is it 'wrong' to do good works? If so, why does the Bible say in multiple places to do good? Matthew 7:16-23. Jesus says most people will go to hell and you'll know his followers by their fruit. If good isn't needed, then why would Jesus say this. Was he lying? It would be a very hard argument to make that living a fruitful life of good works is 'bad', because that's exactly what the Bible says to do and how you can recognize genuine Christians. Christians aren't saved by good works, though. That's a logical fallacy to assume that. Grace alone saves. If someone wants to follow Jesus, however, it requires action, doing things.

Reading the entire chapter context of the Bible clears up such misunderstandings. God bless you in your journey for the truth.

Adam . . .

Which ONE is IT?

FAITH or WORKS???

It CAN'T BE BOTH!

Ephesians 2:8-9

For by GRACE are ye saved through FAITH; and that NOT of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

NOT of WORKS, lest any man should boast.

James 2:24

Ye see them how that by WORKS a man is justified, and NOT by FAITH ONLY.

You HAVE A DILEMMA!

ANSWER:

WHO is James written TO?

James 1:1

James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, TO THE TWELVE TRIBES which are scattered abroad, greeting.

James was writing to ISRAEL!

WHO is Paul writing TO?

Ephesians 3:6

That the GENTILES should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Pretty CLEAR, You Are A GENTILE!

Paul is The Apostle Of The GENTILES!

You had better listen to Paul, Romans to Philemon, to FIND out HOW to be SAVED!

Josephine, James has been a controversial book for many generations of Christians. However, if read carefully & in light of other Scripture that talk about faith, we have to conclude one thing. And that is, it is faith alone that saves a person from the penalty of sin & judgement (see Eph 2:8-10). Once we add works, or anything else, then it is no longer of faith & we make the Grace of God null & void ( Rom 11:6). This is because if we add anything to saving faith (whether it be the keeping of the Law, or doing good works for our fellow-men), then it is no more of faith but of works - the two don't mix - they cancel out each other.

But James in chapter 2 does not speak of what I've just shared, but speaks of the authenticity of that God-given faith. In other words, an authentic faith will, must, produce good works. If it doesn't, then that is not genuine faith & the person having that, isn't saved.

The other point then is, if as you say 'a person has to have faith & works to be saved', then I would ask, "how much works has to be done to make that faith or salvation certain"? You might do wonderful things for people & society ten hours in the day, but will that be enough to get you saved? So you see, you cannot combine the two - it's one or the other. Faith saves - Works kills. And Faith & Works together can never secure you as you then have to add more to what Jesus has done on the Cross for you. Walk in faith dear sister, & do works that result from that faith, making "your calling & elections sure".

I suspected possible false church teachings 2x in Bible church ... I urgently felt the need for myself and wife to seek Jesus not Trump during 2016 presidential debates. Publicly baptized and accepted Jesus as savior in a safe space. We also attended bible studies and Praise worship and fellowship means every single week.

501C3 I also suspect is synonymous with at least partially beholden to Caesar (government).

My guy level beliefs after reading my own KJV Bible and praying for Holy Spirit discernment differs from pastoral teachings.

I think witnessing publicly that Jesus is savior to a hostile boss (trials/tribes) or as prophesied under persecution or certainty of death (seems likely) is more in line with the great disciples in my Bible.

Love thy neighbor as thy self. (esp neighbors who oppose me) (Works) is directly in line with gospel.

"Endure til the end" "few will choose the narrow path" in gospel doesn't seem to line up with the multitudes who being "taught" the Bible and choosing to believe in a pre tribulation rapture and immunity for themselves from all the extreme trials hardship and persecution of death reserved for other undefined non pre trib raptured people.

Comment* after reading this chapter, i have come to realise that faith alone cannot give us salvation but faith wit work.

Hi Chris, just noticed your comment...

>If I seek to obey any of God's Laws, including the Sabbath, then I am judged by the Law & voluntarily exempt myself from salvation by Grace & not the Law.

Jesus disagrees with this in John 14:15. Jesus directly says if you love him you will keep his commandments (law). If you don't obey, then you don't love Jesus. If someone doesn't love or follow Jesus then they likely won't be invited to spend eternity with Him in heaven.

James 2 explains how grace and works work together. Its possible what you were trying to say is actually from James 2:10, but it doesn't say what you wrote. If you read on it clearly supports doing good works. No where in the Bible does it say we're NOT supposed to obey God or Jesus. It says the opposite throughout.

I watch out for anyone claiming good works are 'bad', as if following Jesus and his commands are bad. But somehow that not worrying about following Jesus's commands is 'ok' despite the exact words Jesus said that say the opposite. Ecclesiastes 12:13 Calling good bad sounds awfully familiar as if it comes a deceiver.

If you pursue Christ you are a Christian under grace, but following Him is an activity involving effort. It's not human effort that saves anyone, but it should be the natural fruit of loving Jesus. Many call themselves Christians and don't love Jesus, because they don't obey, and they will be surprised in the end just as Jesus predicted: Revelation 3:16 and Matthew 7:21 and Hebrews 10:26.

Yes we are to do what the word of God instructs is to do .

But first we must realize that not doing it is sin .

So we repent and ask the Lord to empower us to do it by His spirit .

The first step is why are we not doing it ?

The Lord will help us do it , ask Him for wisdom .

The hardest part is owning up to the reality we are not doing , and can't without His Spirit .

When truly repentant in a matter or salvation , we then will be able to be led by the Holy Spirit and enjoy our obedience . I hope this helps .

Jerry,

The word faith in James Chapter 2 is talking about Spiritual faith. There are two types of faith, human faith, and Spiritual faith. Spiritual faith is only produced by God's Spirit. We can't produce it. The word faith literally means persuasion. And the word works literally means activity. And if you put faith (persuasion) and activity together, you realize that it is God's Spirit in you that is doing the work.

James 2:8 says if ye fulfil the royal law, and this is the same as the law of liberty. It's called Torah or Kingdom Law. Royal means belonging to the king. But if you fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, and this is found Leviticus 19:18, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, and then he says you do well:

In Matthew 22:37, Jesus said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. I'd like to point out two things. Number one, the term "Thou shalt love" is not in command form. That is a Future Active Indicative in the Greek text. It is it is not a command. It is a factual statement. You will love! Secondly, believers are supposed to love one another. But, neither in the Old Testament, nor in the New Testament, is it in command form.

As a matter of fact, the command in the Old Testament is (YOU WILL) love the Lord your God, and (YOU WILL) love your neighbor as yourself. It's a factual statement, not a command. Jesus is not commanding us to go out and to love. He's stating fact, that if we have His Spirit, WE WILL love. It's His Spirit in us that produces Agape love. We cannot produce Agape. That's why we have to understand that if we have His Spirit in us, WE WILL love. Factual statement!

It comes from Deut. Chapter 6, the chapter that has the SHEMA, the prayer that's prayed every morning and evening by Orthodox Jews. In that prayer, they recite the fact that God says that I will put my Spirit in you, and I will put my laws on your heart, and you will love the Lord your God.

Faith without works is dead. Does the works include what Jesus is asking us to do the way we led our lives? In other words is works considered like: If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well: Is that works??

Nicene Creed part 1 The Apostles creed (I believe) is not in the Bible. The Vatican wants us to believe they were responsible for it.

The Greek churches as well as Rome hammered out the Creeds. Rome was but one of many in attendance

I have had Baptists (I went to a Baptist Bible College) tell me this is heresy.

Yet I can defend every line from the King James Bible that I trust.

Here is is the NICENE CREED:

I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

[ 1 Corinthians 8:6, James 2:19, John 1:1-3]

How do I feel about James 2:17-26? If we are talking about faith without works is a dead faith, then I totally agree. But to understand what it means, you have to have an understanding of what the bible means by faith. Please give me your definition of faith. You and I cannot produce the faith the bible speaks of. All we can produce is flesh. The faith the bible speaks of is spiritual faith. Only God's Spirit can produce spiritual faith ( Galatians 5:22). The works that come from us come from the persuasion of God's Spirit persuading us to do those things. But it is His work, not ours. He gets all the glory. ( Ephesians 2:8-9).

Again, due to space, I'll answer your other questions on John 14:15, Luke 12:9, and Romans 12:2 next.

James 2:18-20 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Revelation 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Revelation 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Revelation 20:12 and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Hi Jesse, is your position that Christians never commit blasphemy of the holy spirit? or that they are incapable to? or they don't have the freewill to?

The Bible says even angels in heaven sinned, because they too have freewill in heaven. Humans have the same freewill, and Christians have the same freewill, do they not? Unfortunately some Christians have turned to evil and denounced faith in Jesus and committed blasphemy of the holy spirit, do you recognize this? Judas did that.

What is your reason for living life as a Christian or trying to be obedient to Jesus, if it has nothing to do with going to heaven?

Hebrews 10:26 You said doesn't refer to salvation, except it does. Have you read the whole chapter? How do you feel about James 2:17-26 or John 14:15, or Luke 12:9?

Many verses say Christians are to be obedient, but are you saying obedience or transforming isn't needed to enter heaven? Do you think there's no downside to Christians following the world of sin? Romans 12:2

Hi Deason, the reason I think that believing in Jesus isn't enough is that the Bible already says that believing isn't enough. Even satan and demons know the truth and believe in Jesus, so do you think they're saved? James 2:19, if obedience wasn't important, then why did Jesus say it was? He said you don't love Jesus if you don't obey Him. So, for those who disobey Jesus, do you think it's likely that you go to heaven and be rewarded as much as those who spent their life in service and obedience to Him? Romans 2:6 Satan wants to deceive Christians into believing you don't have to be obedient because he's trying to get more people to go to hell. James 2:26. And what about the many verses saying to repent and confess of your sin? Matthew 4:17 If it wasn't necessary then why did Jesus say it was? If obedience wasn't necessary, why would Jesus say it was? The real question is does someone fully believe the Bible and do they truly believe Jesus? Matthew 7:22

Deason, I agree that a Christian is someone who has been born again of God's Spirit, or Holy Ghost, and believing the gospel is also important. But wouldn't you agree that belief in itself is not enough to save a person, that they have to receive Christ in order to be saved? James 2:19 says that even the demons believe. But their belief does not save them.

I am not trying to discredit anything you are saying, and I agree with everything you said for the most part. I just didn't see any mention about receiving Christ. You are spot on about eternal life, and about people who claim to be Christians but have never been born again. I think you just described the people Adam is referring to in his post, the ones who claim to be followers, but then later denounce the whole thing. I don't think those people were ever saved to begin with. 1 John 2:19 describes the people Adam is referring to. Those people were never saved, even though they were "followers," proving John's point!

Deason K. ( James 2:26) For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. ( James 2:17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. ( James 2:18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Read James 2:19-24..I am not trying to work my way to heaven, by my faith I will have good works, faith and works go hand in hand, if you have one without the other than it is not complete..That's why Matthew 7:20 says By their fruits ye shall know them. May God bless you.

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

James 2:20 View whole chapter | See verse in context

James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead

Luke 6:46 Jesus said why call me Lord Lord and DO NOT the things which I say --

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God.

With the uncertainty of life & what the next day or hour brings, your pressing enquiry to Christ's salvation offer, comes at the right time. Many people say they believe in God & that is enough. But that is not enough, as even the apostle James reminds us in James 2:19, "Thou believest there is one God; thou doest well; the devils also believe, and tremble". And the devil & his demons know that their time is short ( Rev 12:12) and it is a fearful thing to fall into the Hands of the Living God ( Heb 10:31). You are near to God because you love Him & want to know His Way of Salvation - the devil also knows the way but will never take it & tries his hardest to prevent others doing so. God bless.

Hey Teresa, I can not tell you all that salvation means in a short paragraph but know that Salvation is by one name, JESUS CHRIST. He and the Father are one and you must call upon Christ to save you From Sin, Death, and Hell for he payed the ultimate price and suffered for all men that we may be saved! I am glad that you believe in God! But be careful for many may claim to believe but are not truly saved ( James 2:19). I encourage you to read Ephesians 2:8 and really that whole chapter! Also a simple way to explain salvation is that you must Hear the word ( Rom. 10:17) and then Believe ( John 3:16). Repent ( Acts 17:30), and Confess that he is LORD ( Rom. 10:10).

Bill...the Book of James has been in contention over the centuries, as an authority that faith alone does not give salvation. If that were the case, then Jesus' death on the cross is of no effect since one's accepting of it by faith alone secures salvation. If anything else is included, viz. good works for others, baptism, faithfulness in Church going or tithing, etc., then Christ's work & salvation are no longer of grace but of works. ( Rom 11:5,6). However, James is correct, that the proof of real saving faith is seen in a life of good works. If a Christian says that he has faith, and have not works, his faith is dead (Js 2:14-17). Faith saves, but works follow only as evidence of grace.

This contradicts most Chrisrians belief that faith alone will lead to salvation. Faith without works is damnation.

Satan is the father of lies and he likes to deceive Christians into thinking they don't have to stop sinning, that they can stay in the world and partake of its evil without consequence, because, hey, 'once saved, always saved'. But is that true? Which circumstance is satan more likely behind: that he deceives Christians into avoiding sin and being stronger followers of Jesus than they need to be, or that he deceives Christians into believing their sin doesn't matter and they can enjoy unlimited sinning without consequence? Obviously the latter is the one satan uses to deceive and we hear this even preached in churches. Jesus himself said otherwise: John 14:15

Our modern day evangelical churches are all preaching we are saved by faith alone and not works. This is not true. The whole theme of the New Testament tells a different story. We must be holy and live righteously. The early Christians taught this and it is everywhere in the scriptures. If our lives look like the rest of the world we are lost.

Enjoy reading the chapter letting us no to put out trust in God. You need to have faith in God. With out the word you is dead.