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5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
Luke 8:5-8 Jesus said this very plain to see. You see the seed is Jesus, some fell on a rock these didn't want to be a new creature, others by the way side wouldn't follow Jesus, others fell among thorns - you can't have both Jesus and the world, And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. If you want to follow Jesus you can. Joining a church don't save, John 3:7 Ye must be born again --- (Just believing alone don't save)
Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen. James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. II Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
I believe the only thing you got right in that post was your first sentence when you said
"I'm not totally clear on this,"
I didn't create the narrative. here's the narrative.
Since God's holy Sabbath day is on a Saturday and we are to honor God's Sabbath day which is the fourth commandment is it wrong for us to be going to church on Sunday shouldn't we be going to church on Saturday.
I used James 2:10. to say you can't just focus on the sabbath day and leave the other 9 commandments out.
And perfectly means ALL of them, all the time!! Are you saying that's wrong? if so you are saying it's ok not to obey the 10 commandments.
And I said the law was given to Israel. Is that wrong? Romans 9:4.
And I gave Colossians 2:14-16.
And you may have read "We rest in the finished work of Christ on the cross"
It doesn't mean we don't have to keep the 10 Commandments!
It means we are no longer condemned by the 10 Commandments. This is the complete work of God.
The 10 commandments is called the ministration of Death.
2 Corinthians 3:6-9.
When someone says we obey God by and through the Spirit isn't that obeying God?
The Spirit commands the heart not the flesh. You have to ALREADY be born again to obey it.
The law commanded the flesh and the flesh is weak! read Romans 7.
This is what James is talking about in James 2:14. Your faith is to be confirmed by good works!
It has nothing to do with the sabbath day.
Again my reason for using
James 2:10. is to say why if you're going to be under the law you have to be perfect.
Furthermore I have no idea how teaching this teaches people to sin when the scripture says
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Romans 3:27-28.
I don't see why you and Gigi have a problem with that.
I will post more later.
God bless."
I believe the only thing you got right in that post was your first sentence when you said
"I'm not totally clear on this,"
I didn't create the narrative. here's the narrative.
Since God's holy Sabbath day is on a Saturday and we are to honor God's Sabbath day which is the fourth commandment is it wrong for us to be going to church on Sunday shouldn't we be going to church on Saturday.
I used James 2:10. to say you can't just focus on the sabbath day and leave the other 9 commandments out.
And perfectly means ALL of them, all the time!! Are you saying that's wrong? if so you are saying it's ok not to obey the 10 commandments.
And I said the law was given to Israel. Is that wrong? Romans 9:4.
And I gave Colossians 2:14-16.
And you may have read "We rest in the finished work of Christ on the cross"
It doesn't mean we don't have to keep the 10 Commandments!
It means we are no longer condemned by the 10 Commandments. This is the complete work of God.
The 10 commandments is called the ministration of Death.
2 Corinthians 3:6-9.
When someone says we obey God by and through the Spirit isn't that obeying God?
The Spirit commands the heart not the flesh. You have to ALREADY be born again to obey it.
The law commanded the flesh and the flesh is weak! read Romans 7.
This is what James is talking about in James 2:14. Your faith is to be confirmed by good works!
It has nothing to do with the sabbath day.
Again my reason for using
James 2:10. is to say why if you're going to be under the law you have to be perfect.
Furthermore I have no idea how teaching this teaches people to sin when the scripture says
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Romans 3:27-28.
I don't see why you and Gigi have a problem with that.
I will post more later.
God bless.
If so, it sounds like something satan would say, because he loves deceiving people with opposites and somehow is effective at convincing even Christians of it.
What the Bible actually says is that obeying is God is good. Disobeying is bad. There's a page of verses supporting that:
Link
Maybe the source of the misunderstanding lies in a belief like this:
If one desire to keep the law he can't just keep the 4th commandment, he must keep the whole law "perfectly" ALL HIS LIFE!
This comes from James 2.
What's interesting about this is some only focus on verse 10 to support their chosen narrative, but if someone reads the whole chapter they see only 4 verses later in James 2:14 it says:
"What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?"
So, only 4 verses later busts the narrative that someone is not supposed to do good, not supposed to obey, or even try. It in fact says the opposite.
Then in James 2:17-20 it says it again that faith without works is dead along with "I will shew thee my faith by my works."
Then in verse 24 it says it again, then in verse 26, it says it again. Over and over how important good works are to God. If it were not important it would say 'don't do good works', but it says to do good works.
Verse 10 isn't saying to disobey, but that we can't do it without Jesus! Remember the Pharisees?
"Keeping the law imperfectly is "still" a death sentence."
No, we're already doomed sinners without Jesus. We can't earn salvation as its a gift, but that doesn't mean disobey! We must follow Jesus for salvation which includes obedience! John 14:15
The sabbath day was given to Israel,
not the Church.
If one desire to keep the law he can't just keep the 4th commandment, he must keep the whole law "perfectly" ALL HIS LIFE!
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
James 2:10-11.
We are to rest in the finished work of Christ on the cross. "Meaning he paid the penalty for us and everyone who cannot and never could keep the law. And that's everyone, even Moses.
Colossians 2:15-17. And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
If you believe the sabbath is for the Church and you go to service on the sabbath you probably would somehow do something to break the sabbath.
I believe the first man stoned to death was because he gathered sticks, Probably to kindle a fire.
see here:
Num. 15:32-35. And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
Keeping the law imperfectly is "still" a death sentence.
God bless.
The sabbath day was given to Israel,
not the Church.
If one desire to keep the law he can't just keep the 4th commandment, he must keep the whole law "perfectly" ALL HIS LIFE!
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
James 2:10-11.
We are to rest in the finished work of Christ on the cross. "Meaning he paid the penalty for us and everyone who cannot and never could keep the law. And that's everyone, even Moses.
Colossians 2:15-17. And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
If you believe the sabbath is for the Church and you go to service on the sabbath you probably would somehow do something to break the sabbath.
I believe the first man stoned to death was because he gathered sticks, Probably to kindle a fire.
see here:
Num. 15:32-35. And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
Keeping the law imperfectly is "still" a death sentence.
God bless.
after death,: Matthew 17:1-3, Luke 7:12-16, Luke 8:49-56, John 11:21-45, Matthew 27:50-54, Luke 16:22-31, John 21:14, Acts 3:15, Acts 4:10, Mark 12:25,26,27, Luke 24:46, John 5:12, John 5:25, 1 Peter 1:3, 1 Peter 2:24, 1 Peter 4:5, Revelation 1:5, Revelation 1:18, Revelation 14:9-20, 1 Corinthians 15:20,21, 2 Timothy 4:1, 1 Thessalonians 4:16, 1 Thessalonians 1:10, Matthew 25:31-46, Romans 14:9, Matthew 22:32, Isaiah 26:19,
Hebrews 11:35, Revelation 20, 2 Esdras 2:16, Hebrews 6:2, Hebrews 9:14, Hebrews 11:4, Hebrews 13:20, Revelation 11:18,
Hopefully these are helpful.
Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"
Galatians 3:10-14 "But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith."
James 2:10-11 "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."
I'm a great sinner and thank God that Jesus is a greater Saviour. GB
My interpretation of "Faith without works is dead" is what's written in scripture: James 2:1-4, James 2:5, please read all of James 2, for perspective & context. It says that faith without works is dead 3 times. Then gives examples what that is : * James 2:13-17,
James 2:19-20,
Notice: Isaiah 58, please read whole chapter. * Isaiah 58:6-7, James 1:23-27,
Isaiah 58:10-12, Matthew 25:31-46, 1 Timothy 6:17-19, again read, 1Timothy 6, whole chapter. 1 Corinthians 13,
I hope these scriptures help give you understanding to what GOD means by "Faith without out works is dead."
When we know the lawgiver; grace sets us free. We have an indication of the literal and spiritual descendants ruling and reigning in Zion; whether on earth during the Millennium; or when the heavenly city comes to earth afterwards and all are in eternal bodies. The Old Testament saints such as David will rule and reign; and certainly the Apostles as well; as this group likely constitutes the 24 elders in Revelation 4:10. The Lord will surely restore the earth in fullness when He returns as v. 15 states. He who is trusted in earthly things can be assured authority over heavenly ( Luke 16:11); this and many other similar admonitions encourage us to trust that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him ( Hebrews 11:6).
1 Joo 3:17 - Mas aquele que tiver bens deste mundo, e vir a seu irmo padecer necessidade, e fechar o seu corao de compaixo dele, como pode permanecer nele o amor de Deus?
1 John 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
James 2:15 - Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food.
James 2:16 - If one of you tells him, "Go in peace; stay warm and well fed," but does not provide for his physical needs, what good is that?
Isaiah 58:1-14, Exodus 20:8, Exodus 20:10-11,
Exodus 31:13,14,16, Leviticus 16:31, Leviticus 19:3, Leviticus 19:30, Leviticus 23:1-8, Leviticus 24:8, Leviticus 25:2, Leviticus 25:4, Leviticus 25:17, Jeremiah 17:19-27, Lamentations 1:1-7, Isaiah 1:11-17, Isaiah 56:1-8, Ezekiel 20:12, Ezekiel 22:26,
Amos 8:4-8, Mark 2:27,
Matthew 12:8, Matthew 12:1-27, Mark 3:1-11, Luke 6:6-11, Luke 13:11-17, Luke 14:3-6, Luke 14:12-24, Luke 23:3-56, John 5:1-16, John 7:22-24,
Colossians 2:8-17,
James 2:1-26
Hopefully these are also helpful in your search for truth.
James 2:14-26, Matthew 25:31-46, Matthew 5:14-16, Matthew 16:27,
Jesus's examples of miraculous "works" & compassion Matthew 11, Matthew 13,
Not:
Exodus 23:24, Matthew 7:20-23, Matthew 23,
James 2:19
James 1:23
James 2:24
2 Peter 2:21
Acts 2:38
John 1:9
God bless...
Believers who worship on a Sunday (what we term as the Lord's Day - the Day of His Resurrection) ought not to regard Sunday as a Sabbath; it's a day set aside to come together & worship the Lord. They might also choose to rest, not work, or minister to others on that day, but we can't change the Sabbath to a Sunday. A Jew or any person who wants to observe Saturday as Sabbath & feels that disobeying that command puts him/her/others in a precarious position before God, also needs to observe the other commandments, statutes, precepts & laws to the letter. As James reminded us & wrote, "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend (or, fail to do) in one point, he is guilty of all." ( James 2:10). And brother Earl has also explained this very well.
And the converse must also be true: when His Love is spurned & His Offer to forgive & be accepted into His family are treated as contemptible, can that Love that compels God to also show us mercy, not in our final hour ultimately relegate that wretched soul to punishment for his sins? If man, filled with sin, yet receives no provision from His Creator to find forgiveness & restitution, can justifiably find grounds for still being found acceptable. But when that offer given in love, in patient waiting, & by the imploring of the Spirit is cast aside, can the sinner expect anything less than God's full force of punishment meant for Satan & those who regard him as their god & follow him? We can either serve God fully or Satan - unfortunately, there's no middle ground on which to rest our case. And that's the great tragedy that lulls many into a false hope & a careless living. Just adding here a few thoughts that your worthy comments have prompted in me.
People are deceived if they believe everyone goes to heaven regardless of how much sick and vile evil they commit against God, like Hitler mass murdering people. Jesus already said most people will go to hell. Just read the gospels and his many parables. They are all similar themes- warning after warning.
Jesus died for everyone, but forgiveness is contingent upon someone humbling themselves, repenting, confessing, believing, declaring Jesus is Lord and accepting the gift. Acts 2:38 - this requires an action. It doesn't say 'Do nothing and ye shall receive the gift' or 'Keep sinning as much as you want...' Here's another action requirement: repentance: Luke 5:32. Here's another confessing: 1 John 1:9.
Romans 10:9 - notice the "If..." People don't say "if" unless it's conditional. Salvation is conditional.
This says to believe: 1 John 5:13. It doesn't say 'not believing is totally fine.' Romans 12:2 - this says to be transformed and to not conform to the world. That's a big bummer for those hoping for a free get out of hell free card to enjoy a lifetime of sin and guilty pleasures. Look at this: John 8:11 and even this: James 2:26. Another: James 4:6. Reading the Bible for what it is paints a very different picture than the little summaries people like to spread around. People who ignore all the Bible's teachings and do whatever they want should be afraid for their soul: Luke 12:5. God bless.
Hopefully these help
given are more tied into the needy or humility or both. In Mathew 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit for they shall see
God sounds more like tremble in humility and yet there are at least 12 scripture where poor in wealth is the case.
James 2:5+6 Appears to point out the bad treatment of believers by believers poor tremble in humility to God by people high minded and lofty and financially well off who are not walking and treating other believers appropriately.
Thanks and very good question needs more input. God bless Grace
James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Mark 6:12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.
John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
Luke 1:25, 1 Samuel 1:6, women have cruelly mocked other women many times over this issue & others.
Remember GOD justifies Romans 8:33, Psalms 22:24, be encouraged sis
Proverbs 16:9, Romans 5:1, James 2:22-25,
However the root argument sometimes stem from situational issues of choice which people may be referring to Genesis 38:6-10, then continued reading Tamar was considered "more righteous" Genesis 38:26, pursuing offspring of her dead husbands lineage, which was significant either in justification, reward or preplanned destiny. Matthew 1:3, Genesis 38:29, she is written in the documentation of Jesus lineage. Hebrews 11,
Additional scripture
Act 17:28-29, Malachi 2:15, Isaiah 65:21-24, on their perspective
I hope this was encouraging & helpful
Genesis 3:1 Now the SERPENT (Satan) was more subtil than any BEAST of the Field which the Lord God Had made...
God made ALL THE BEAST of the field out of DUST, The BEAST are all made FLESH.
1 Corinthians 15:39 Not all flesh is the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of man, another of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
Which of these creations of FLESH is the MOST SUBTIL, Of course it's MAN.
Job 26:13 By his Spirit he hath garnished the heavens; His (Spirits) hand hath formed he crooked (liar and murderer, from the beginning) serpent (subtil beast).
1 John 2:16 ..The lust of the FLESH, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life..
Which of these creations of FLESH have the capabilities to have the pride of life, lust of the FLESH, and the lust of the eyes, of course it's MAN.
James 2:19 thou (terrestrial FLESH) believest there is one one God, thou doest well, the devils (Satan, terrestrial FLESH) also BELIEVE, and tremble.
Revelation 13 :8 Here is wisdom let him that hath UNDERSTANDING count the number of the BEAST (FLESH): for his number is the number of a MAN..
Who is the ONLY beast of the field that is subtil, can lust, can BELIEVE and can buy and sell. Why of course, it's MAN, THE PRINCE(S) OF THIS WORLD.
You BELIEVE, long before you are BORN AGAIN. Terrestrial FLESH, the carnal mind, has to BE DESTROYED (it's the process of light replacing darkness).
1 Corinthians 5:5 To deliver such a one (terrestrial flesh) to Satan (terrestrial flesh) for the DESTRUCTION of the Flesh, that the Spirit might be SAVED in the day of the Lord.
Isaiah 9:20 ..they shall every man EAT THE FLESH OF HIS OWN RIGHT ARM.
Zechariah 14:12 ..their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet..
Revelation 19:18 That you may eat the flesh of kings, and he flesh of captains, and the flesh of might men..
Romans 13:11 ..now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
WORK OUT YOU OWN SALVATION
PHYSICIAN HEAL THYSELF
I agree. The gift that is so freely talked about by those who want to "keep their lives" and still recieve salvation are plainly missguided. You simply can't keep your life, and recieve salvation. It is one or the other!
The gift is really a "favor from God" with the hope that the reciever will accept it - and walk with Christ. If the reciever does not walk with Christ - they do not recieve the gift of salvation.
If we are truly - Born Again - there will be a change in us, and we will want to try to live a Christ like life!
Paul states the following which is very clear:
Hebrews 10:26
"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"
Galatians 6:7
"Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."
A Christ like person will strive to be sin free, and will produce good fruit/works.
James 2:22
"Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?"
So many christians todaybelieve wrongly they are going to heaven no matter what. This is wrong! Here is Paul himself instructing us how to achieve our own salvation:
Philippians 2:12
"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."
Why would Paul instruct us in the above verse, if all believer's are going to heaven anyway?
There are "no free tickets". People need to read the bible and believe what it says.
God Bless
Matthew 12:32 "...but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."
Matthew 7:21-23
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."
Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"
Hebrews 6:4-6
James 2:14-26 "...faith, if it hath not works, is dead..."
James 2:19 "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."
1 Peter 1:13 "...hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;"
Romans 11
John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments."
Matthew 12:31-32
Romans 14:12
1 Peter 1:5 - "...salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."
1 Cor 9:24-27 "run the race", not the 'race was already won.'
2 Peter 3:17
Luke 8:5-18
1 Timothy 4:1
2 Peter 2:20-22
God Bless
Here's verses about it:
Link
Here's a previous discussion I found via advanced search and selecting discussions.
Link
More verses:
Matthew 12:32 "...but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."
OSAS believers: "Ok, but a Christian would never do that"
"Christians no longer have freewill to sin? Is that true?"
Joshua 24:15 "choose you this day whom ye will serve"
Matthew 7:21-23
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."
Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"
Hebrews 6:4-6
James 2:14-26 "...faith, if it hath not works, is dead..."
James 2:19 "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."
1 Peter 1:13 "...hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;"
Romans 11
John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments."
Matthew 12:31-32
Romans 14:12
1 Peter 1:5 - "...salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."
1 Cor 9:24-27 "run the race", not the 'race was already won.'
2 Peter 3:17
Luke 8:5-18
1 Timothy 4:1
2 Peter 2:20-22
Hebrews 3:12
Galatians 5:4
1 Corinthians 15:2-8
2 Peter 2:20-21