Job
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I am sure you will get different replies on this, my understanding is close to what is in your post. Soul and spirit are two different words but seem to think of being the same and are hard to separate in our mind. What happens to these when we die there are different understandings, does the soul sleep in the earth with the body, or is it immortal and go to two different places?
The word soul in Hebrew is nephesh meaning a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion. The Greek word psuche meaning the soul, life, self, a person's distinct identity.
The word spirit, the Bible writers used the Hebrew word ruach meaning breath, wind, spirit, or the Greek word pneuma also meaning wind, breath, spirit, when writing about the spirit.
Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
The spirit goes back to God Ecclesiastes 12:7
The Holy Spirit seals us until when? Ephesians 4:30
We are buried mortal, dead, in corruption and we are raised immortal incorruptible 1 Corinthians 15:42-44
All consciousness ends when we die. Psalm 6:5 Job 14:12-14 Job 17:13-16 Psalm 89:48 Psalm 115:17 Ecclesiastes 9:5-10
We sleep in the dust until resurrection day, the day of redemption. 1 Corinthians 15:51 1 Thessalonians 4:14 1 Corinthians 15:52-54
God raised Jesus from the dead after three days and three nights, so, Romans 8:1 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Have not found any scripture that says we or our soul or spirit is immortal, may someone else provide it if it is in the bible.
God bless,
RLW
Job 14:7 For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and the tender branch thereof will not cease.
Job 14:8 Though the root thereof wax old in the earth, and the stock thereof die in the ground;
Job 14:9 Yet through the scent of water it will bud, and bring forth boughs like a plant.
It has answers to most questions about eternal security, through the Word of God.
The SEARCH BOX on that page can fetch answers from scriptures. To find info on Noah, Noah's children, "The Caught Up In The Clouds (rapture),
Book of Life, etc. To read the same subject with numerous similar scripture, widens your view/knowledge on that subject.
Chris,
I am not catholic! However, what I was referring too is that these books are not listed in the bible (66 books). It was originally in the old KJV bible 1610, but was removed. I do not believe in purgatory and praying for the dead.
You are replying to a comment by "Glen Barbour and Chris"
Messenger Replies:
Please read Acts 24:15 We can pray to God ( Psalm 83:18) for his kingdom to come ( Matthew 6:9,10).
Why? because we can pray that he resurrect our loved ones who have died (the ones we love so dearly)
John 5:28,29
Job 14:14,15
John 11:25
While a comforting thought, that repeated phrase doesn't appear that way in the Bible. Paul didn't say that 100% of the time, when 100% of all people die, that instantly you are absent from the body and 100% of the time immediately with the Lord. Paul said he would 'rather' be present with the Lord. That doesn't mean everyone goes to be with the Lord and that doesn't mean that everyone is absent from their body upon death and won't wait for Jesus to return, and won't face any judgment. Matthew 12:36, 2 Corinthians 5:10, Revelation 20:11-15 - People are all judged on the same day. God bless...
1 Corinthians 15:22 says For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
( Genesis 3; John 3:16,17;5:28,29; John 17:3)
Resurrected to earth: ( 2 Peter 3:13)
Psalm 37:9-11,29,34;
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
or
Resurrected to heaven: ( Revelation 20)
Revelation 14:3 (144,000); Matthew 7:21
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
hope this helps, Thanks
I doubt mass murderers like Hitler went to the Lord for example. I believe he is waiting to face judgment like everyone else.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 says the dead will rise and those living will meet the Lord in the air. Would it make sense for someone to go heaven, then back to earth to rise up, then back again to heaven?
Also, when people die they 'sleep' as it says in. So, they are still with their bodies. If cremated, I still believe souls are just sleeping somewhere awaiting Jesus's return, then the day of judgment that says everyone must face. It doesn't say anyone gets to skip judgment day. God bless.
Daniel 12:2, Job 14:12, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
The Bible doesn't seem to cover all the questions you asked. But I believe it does answer one of them: Job 14:12, 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17.
God bless you...
Adam was a flesh-and-blood human being, so like us, his body was subject to wearing out, and one day his heart would stop, and the breath of life (spirit) would return back to God. Adam like us was not created immortal, he needed to eat of the Tree of Life to live forever, that is why it was hidden.
After Adam sinned it was a spiritual death not a physical death, the dwelling place for God in man, Satan's deception, physical life goes on after sin. Now we are under the judgment of condemnation and only by the grace of God and the gift of eternal life through Jesus Christ we are free from this judgment.
Jesus came and lived in the flesh and died and was resurrected so we could be redeemed from this state of death, giving us the opportunity of eternal life. Did Jesus return to heaven when He died? Jesus did not ascend to His Father until after He resurrected ( John 20:17).
The belief in our soul is immortal comes from ancient Greek philosophy, developed especially by two of the chief Greek philosophers, Plato and Socrates. The meaning of death, being a separation of the soul from the body also came from ancient Greek philosophy. This immortal soul and the meaning of death has been taught for so long it is not questioned today.
It is Platonism, Augustine of Hippo made a saint, held this philosophy. He was a theologian, philosopher with a strong influence on doctrines in the church, in the fourth and early fifth century.
We are buried mortal, dead, in corruption and we are raised immortally incorruptible ( 1 Corinthians 15:42-44)
All consciousness ends when we die. ( Psalm 6:5) ( Job 14:12-14) ( Job 17:13-16) ( Psalm 89:48) ( Psalm 115:17) ( Ecclesiastes 9:5-10)
We sleep in death until resurrection day, the day of redemption. ( 1 Corinthians 15:51) ( 1 Thessalonians 4:14). ( 1 Corinthians 15:52-54)
RLW
2 Corinthians 5:10 - People are judged first THEN they receive what is due.
Revelation 20:11-15 - People are all judged on the same day. Lots of people seen in the same place.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 says the dead will rise and those living will meet the Lord in the air.
Would it make sense for someone to go heaven before being judged where they're going, then back to earth enter a rotted corpse then rise up to meet Jesus, then be judged then go back again to heaven where they already were?
What about these verses that indicate people will sleep in-between while awaiting Jesus's return: Job 14:12, 1 Thessalonians 4:14.
Many have different views on this and some defend them fiercely and interpret scripture to fit those views. This is not a salvation question so here are some things you may study for your own conscience; we all will face the death of this fleshly body and how you decide to face it is up to you. ( Psalm 6:5) ( Job 14:12-14) ( Job 17:13-16) ( Psalm 89:48) ( Psalm 115:17) ( Ecclesiastes 9:5-10)
There is a verse in ( 1 Timothy 4:7) to keep in mind, the actual Greek word used by Paul in this verse was "mythous", from which the English words myth and mythology come. In the actual Greek text of this verse, Paul further characterizes these fables as profane "bebelous". The King James Version of the Bible renders as "profane and old wives' tales".
Does scripture without man's interpretation back up a belief? ( Luke 16:19-31) is taught that we go to heaven or hell when we die. Questions to ask; What is the context of this chapter? Is this a parable or a reality? Is it backed up by other scripture or does it line up with Greek mythology?
What is our spirit? ( Psalm 104:29) ( Ecclesiastes 12:7) ( James 2:26). Spirit meaning wind, breath, spirit. When are we absent from our bodies? If we go to heaven when we die what is the meaning of ( 1 Corinthians 15:52-58)?
My personal understanding what scripture says is our spirit is our breath, and when we die it goes back to God who gave it, and our communication through the Holy Spirit stops until the resurrection,(sleep in Christ). And we being saved in Christ with the down payment/seal given by the Holy Spirit will be raised incorruptible in our new body and then we are absent from this fleshly body. But it is what you decide.
God bless.
RLW
Job 14:1 Man (Christ) that is born of a woman is of few days, and full of trouble.
Job 14:2 He (Christ) cometh forth like a flower, and is cut down: he (Christ) fleeth also as a shadow, and continueth not.
Job 14:3 An doest thou (Father) open thy eyes on such a one (Christ), and bringest me (Christ) into judgement with thee (the Father)?
Job 14:4 Who (Father) can bring a clean thing out of a unclean one? not one.
Job 14:5 Seeing his (Christ) days are determined, the number of his (Christ) months are with thee (the Father), thou (Father) hast appointed his (Christ) bounds that he (Christ) cannot pass;
Job 14:6 (Father) turn from him (Christ), that he (Christ) may rest (in the grave), till he (Christ) shall accomplish, as a hireling, his (Christ) day.
Job 14:7 For there is hope of a tree (of LIFE), if it be cut down, that it may sprout again, and that the tender branch (mankind) thereof will not cease.
Job 14:8 Though the root (of the tree of LIFE) wax old in the earth, and the stock (of the tree of LIFE) thereof die in the ground;
Job 14:9 Yet through the scent of water (Spirit of the Father) it (the tree of LIFE) will bud, and bring forth boughs (mankind) like a plant.
This is something you must decide, there are different views. Study the words soul and spirit, and breath, how they are used through the Bible. One thing, there is no time or knowledge in death ( Psalm 6:5) so whatever you decide, it's like when we go to sleep the next thing we know, we wake up.
When the gospel of Christ was given to the Gentiles, the countries around, even the Jews were influenced by Hellenistic Greek Philosophy, beliefs like what happens when we die, mythical stories of death, paradise, hades, and the underworlds crossed over.
The word "soul" means "life," either physical or eternal. Hebrew word nephesh meaning a soul, ( Genesis 2:7) living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion. The Greek word psuche meaning the soul, life, self, a person's distinct identity. If you study them, it is also used for all living beings' fish, animals, birds, and man. The soul is a living being but it is also our identity, we are all different in looks and personality, all our feelings, our thoughts, emotions, all that makes us, us.
The word spirit, the Bible writers used the Hebrew word ruach meaning breath, wind, spirit, or the Greek word pneuma also meaning wind, breath, spirit, when writing about the spirit.
What I have been shown in my studies, spirit is our breath, also what we communicate and worship God through the Holy Spirit. When we die our breath goes back to God ( Ecclesiastes 12:7) and our communication stops. ( Psalm 115:17) ( Psalms 146:4) ( Job 14:12-14)
We are asleep, body and soul until we are resurrected, that's when this mortal puts on immortality. ( 1 Corinthians 15:42, 51-56).
Sleep is used many times in the Bible for death and it is a very good example, may this give you another view and something you can study.
May we be led by the Spirit of truth.
RLW
The Bible says we will all first be judged. Not just non-Christians, not just "sinners."
Ecclesiastes 12:14
2 Corinthians 5:10
Matthew 12:36
We also know that some will be confident and assume they'll go to heaven, but won't get in.
Matthew 7:21
To me that means that no one is going to either of those places until after judgment day:
Revelation 20:11-15
Hebrews 9:27
1 Corinthians 4:5
And finally, if people don't go to heaven or hell when they die, where else do they go? Here's what the Bible says:
Job 14:12
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
1 Thessalonians 4:17
I believe just as 8 hours can pass in the snap of a finger will it seem like a snap of the finger for those "sleeping" will awake and rise to meet Jesus in the air then face judgment. This took time to put together and paste all these verses here for you, so I hope you likewise take a moment to hover over them and read them. I care.
John 11:25 Jesus said unto her I AM THE RESURRECTION, and THE LIFE......
Isaiah 26:19
1 Timothy 6:16
Job 14:7-9 For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and the tender branch thereof will not cease.
(vs 8) Thought the root thereof wax old in the earth, and the stock thereof die in the ground;
(vs 9) Yet through the scent of water it will bud, and bring forth boughs like a plant.
If we are going to discuss this fairly we must consider what the rest of the Bible says on this topic.
Matthew 12:36 - People will be judged at some point on the same day. Is it likely that they are judged AFTER they go to heaven or BEFORE?
2 Corinthians 5:10 - People are judged first THEN they receive what is due.
Revelation 20:11-15 - People are all judged on the same day. Lots of people seen in the same place.
Because the Bible says this, it can't mean that people are judged immediately when they die- because not everyone is dead yet, and it can't mean that people go immediately to heaven if they aren't judged yet.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 says the dead will rise and those living will meet the Lord in the air.
Would it make sense for someone to go heaven, then back to earth to rise up, then back again to heaven?
It says people will 'sleep' in-between: Job 14:12, 1 Thessalonians 4:14
14:1-6 Job enlarges upon the condition of man, addressing himself also to God. Every man of Adam's fallen race is short-lived. All his show of beauty, happiness, and splendour falls before the stroke of sickness or death, as the flower before the scythe; or passes away like the shadow. How is it possible for a man's conduct to be sinless, when his heart is by nature unclean? Here is a clear proof that Job understood and believed the doctrine of original sin. He seems to have intended it as a plea, why the Lord should not deal with him according to his own works, but according to His mercy and grace. It is determined, in the counsel and decree of God, how long we shall live. Our times are in his hands, the powers of nature act under him; in him we live and move. And it is very useful to reflect seriously on the shortness and uncertainty of human life, and the fading nature of all earthly enjoyments. But it is still more important to look at the cause, and remedy of these evils. Until we are born of the Spirit, no spiritually good thing dwells in us, or can proceed from us. Even the little good in the regenerate is defiled with sin. We should therefore humble ourselves before God, and cast ourselves wholly on the mercy of God, through our Divine Surety. We should daily seek the renewing of the Holy Ghost, and look to heaven as the only place of perfect holiness and happiness.
Mishael: you can Google scriptures. Just type your scripture and type after it. Commentary.
That way you can read more than one.
Job 14:1-2;10-13 Man dies and wastes away. Man dies and will not wake up until the heavens are no more. (We still have heavens so the dead are still dead)
In Job 14:14 Job knew he had to wait until his appointed time to be resurrected.
I Thessalonians 4:13-17 Those who are living will be changed...those in the grave will be raised at the coming of the Lord, which is the First Resurrection.
Psalms 146:1-4 When we die, in that very day every though perishes. So how could Paul, who died, still be alive in heaven with thoughts?
St. John 5:25; 28-29 All the dead will hear the voice of the Lord, some to everlasting life and some to eternal damnation.
Daniel 12:1-2; 8-9; 13 This is referring to the Great Tribulation. Many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting contempt. (Daniel was told this prophecy wasn't for him but it was for the people of the End times. The Lord sealed the words from Daniel.
St. John 6:35; 38-40; 44; 54;63 The Lord will raise people up on the Last Day.
A lot of people still believe the dead is in heaven or hell right now, but the truth according to many scriptures is every man, good or bad is still in the grave until the Lord's First and Second resurrection. If humans were in heaven right now, what need would there be for a resurrection? The only one who's not dead is Enoch...who was translated but not dead.
I'm certain you know these scriptures. But I hope that you will go over them again and maybe see something you hadn't noticed before since I've pointed out some things.
Paul died in Christ so he will be one of the dead in Christ who will be raised at the Lord's 2nd coming.
How do I know for sure a man from Rome will sit in the temple? (I'll finish in the the last thread.)