Discuss John 10 Page 6

Karen. Sin is basically commiting an act against God, now all of God's

Messengers and man were built with freedom of will because God wants

To be loved honestly not by control. So in the beginning by pride Lucifers

Sin was rebellion based on pride against the creator God. That,'s when he

Became Satan or the devil and was cast down from heaven to earth. He

Is the one that as Jesus Christ said in John 10:9 The thief cometh not but

To steal kill and destroy that's the adversaries mode of operation. He is

God of this world 2 Corinthians 4:4, now in contrast to that when we got

Born again the enemy no longer has any authority over a standing believer

Claiming and walking as a Son of the most High God. So when you think

On those things he's nothing as we walk via the spirit untouchable!

Hello GiGi

pt 1

I appreciate your thoughts.

I'm glad you stepped in to share your convictions.

And I agree with what you say

"but I would like to add that anything is possible with God except sinning or doing evil."

"He is absolutely pure and sinless. He is without shadow or hint of corruption. He is infinitely righteous in all of His ways."

"He is patient and longsuffering, willing that many more will come to believe the Gospel, even today, or tomorrow, or ten years from now."

And to become a son or daughter of God one must come unto Christ.

But I respectfully disagree with,

"We may never be able to resolve the seeming contradictions or paradoxes in the Scriptures."

We are commanded to speak the same thing ( 1 Corinthians 1:10)

We are commanded to speak sound doctrine ( Titus 2:1)

We are to be one body in Christ ( 1 Corinthians 12:12)

And we are that body of Christ the was wounded for our transgressions and bruised for our iniquities: upon whom the chastisement of our peace is upon; (paraphrased)

and with his stripes we are healed. ( Isaiah 53)

I feel prompted by the Spirit of the God of Israel to say the things I'm saying.

I've read the Book of Mormon and Bible over and over and over again.

I believe the 2 books are gathering Israel.

I believe the resurrected Jesus Christ came to the people on the American continent to gather the other sheep Christ spoke of while in Jerusalem. ( John 10:16)

If you had a conviction of things in Christ our Lord, wouldn't you be moved to share?

But because of the many false, ludicrous doctrines in the Mormon Church fostered by its own Church leaders, many stay away from the Scripture/Book of Mormon.

I respectfully challenge anyone reading this to please show me in the Book of Mormon something contrary to the Bible.

If you do so I will no longer believe the Book of Mormon.

I have provided Biblical Scripture after Scripture indicating support for the Book of Mormon with the Bible.

Brenda good question....But we must remember what Jesus said in John 10:29....My Father that gave them me is GREATER THEN ALL and NO MAN is able to pluck them out of my FATHER HANDS....While we were yet sinners Christ died for us...WE are not our own...We were all bought with a price...His blood of that New Covenant....In Rev. 5 there is a book that Jesus wrote with his own blood of a New Covenant....And His Blood is not eraseable....Thats y Roman 8 is saying there is therefore no condemnation to them in Christ Jesus....Even in the O.T....Once the Blood was applied to the mercy seat it cd not be erased or washed away for 1 yr it was an annual thing.... but now under this NEW Covenant its for all the world for eternity

.....We are bornagain by his LIVING WORDS...And Jesus said heaven and earth will pass away but MY WORDS WILL NEVA PASSAWAY....Our conduct does not keep us simply b/c of Satan and his Tares makes us do things we donot consent unto....As Paul said if i do something i do not consent unto its not i that does it but sin that dwells in my Members.. Romans 7:6 kjv....Thus Satan will tell you O YOU HAVE SINNED THUS YOUR NAME IS BLOTTED OUT OF HIS BOOK...But thats not true simply b/c there is no condemnation to them in Christ Jesus who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit...

There is no man that is stronger then God Almighty God including the devil ....And Jesus said my Father that gave them to me is greater then all and no man can pluck them out of my FATHERS HANDS....PERIOD....Thus Jesus will not lose any of his sheep

Amen Brother Fred Scanlan:

Psalms 136:3 O give thanks unto the LORD of LORDS .....

Deuteronomy 10:17 For the LORD your God is GOD of GODS, and LORD of LORDS .....

Revelation 17:14 .....for he is LORD of LORDS, and KING of KINGS .....

Joshua 22:22 The Lord GOD of GODS, the LORD GOD of GODS ....

Psalms 82 :6 I have said YOU are gods, the children of the most high.

John 10:34 Jesus answered them, is it not written in your law, Ye are gods?

John 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he did also predestinated to be conformed to the image of Christ, the firstborn (God) among many brethren (Gods).

God Bless YOU, Christ's BODY.

Amen Brother Luke:

Acts 1:9 ....and he was taken up; and a CLOUD received him (Christ the GLORIFIED BODY out of their sight;

INTO MAN: his BODY).

Christ was taken into (NEW) heaven: MAN the BODY of CHRIST.

The CLOUD: the Glory and Presence of God ABIDING in, and on, God's temple.

Exodus 40:38 For the CLOUD of the Lord was upon the tabernacle (temple of God) by day, and FIRE (Hebrew 12:29) by night .....

2 Corinthians 6:16 ....for ye are the temple of the LIVING GOD ......

Colossians 1:27 ....this MYSTERY .....Christ in you .... HIS BODY .....HIS TEMPLE .....HIS LIFE ....HIS TRUTH...

Romans 8:29 .... to be CONFORMED (by the NEW BIRTH) to the IMAGE OF CHRIST ....

2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the eyes of them WHICH BELIEVE NOT, lest the light of the GLORIOUS GOSPEL, should shine unto them.

Psalms 82:6 I (the word) have SAID; ye are gods, the children of the most high.

John 10:34 Jesus answered them, IS IT NOT WRITTEN in your law, Ye are gods?

John 10:35 If he called them gods, TO WHOM the WORD of God CAME, the scripture CANNOT be broken.

Luke 9:23 .... If any man will come after me (the second coming of Christ: IN YOU) let him will DENY HIMSELF and take up his cross (first death) and follow ME (I AM the resurrection).

Ephesians 4:4 ...ONE Spirit (the Father) ....ONE Body (Man) ......

Christ the firstborn among many BRETHREN (the image of Christ).

God Bless you (the body Christ).

A lifetime of struggle under the poverty line. All min wage jobs, one after another, paycheck to paycheck, never enough to save. I live in dangerous apt complex with murder, hijackings, etc. I have no savings to retire. Stamina, energy, health waning as I get older. Bad back, over exhaustion. Got fired from another crap job and find myself unemployed yet again. Rent got raised by 25 percent. Car troubles. Tired of the struggle. I want the American dream. I want to buy a house and retire. I want to win the lottery. And if I do I will pay it fore-ward. As I'm pushing 60, with brain fog, severe exhaustion, I just want things to get easier. The easy yolk of which Jesus spoke. I've done the hard yoke. I want the bitter cup removed. I drank 3/4 of it. No more, please. Matthew 18:19-20 - Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. Please agree with me in Christ's name that my health, finances, improve. And for that matter, relationships improve, or lack thereof. I suffer social phobia. I have no friends, wife. I could go on and on. I just want to be happy. That isn't a sin, btw, to want to be happy. John 10:10- I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." Jesus said, "I wish that you may prosper and be in good health even as your soul prospereth." 3 John 1:2. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.-- Mark 11:24.

Let's see what else God's Word has to say in regards to your snarky comment against Jesus.

A few verses before in 2 Peter 1:11 it says "Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ." Do you believe Jesus is your Lord and Savior?

Do you know what "Lord" means?

The same old straw man fallacy shows up again that God the Son isn't God the Father, but no one is claiming that. This attack on Jesus is repeated so much it seems to fall into the disingenuous and lie territory.

God is powerful enough to do what you don't comprehend as a man. Whether you comprehend that or not doesn't change reality or the truth. The Bible says that in John 1 the 'word was God' and was there at the beginning, so do you believe it?

More of God's truth about God:

Luke 4:34 - "Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art; the Holy One of God."

Luke 4:12 after satan put Jesus to the test Jesus says "Do not put the Lord your God to the test."

Isaiah 7:14 - Jesus is called Immanuel which means "God with us"

Isaiah 42:5 "Thus saith God the LORD..."

Isaiah 42:8 "I am the LORD: that is my name..."

Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."

Godhead:

Colossians 2:9

Acts 17:29

Romans 1:20

John 1:18

God is we and us plural:

Genesis 1:26

If the Bible flat out said Jesus is God like it does would you believe it?

Where are the verses that say Jesus isn't God the Son? (none)

Where are the verses saying Jesus IS God the Son (above, numerous)

And where are the verses where Jesus verbally denied being God? (none)

"I AM" John 8:56-59

John 10:30

John 8:19

Philippians 2:5-8

2 Corinthians 5:19

John 1:3

Matthew 28:19

1 Peter 1:2

2 Corinthians 13:14

Deuteronomy 6:4

John 14:10

John 20:28

1 John 2:22-24

Matthew 1:23-25

Colossians 2:9

Acts 17:29

Romans 1:20

Isaiah 7:14

Hebrews 1:8

Isaiah 44:6

Isaiah 43:11

John 17:5

John 17:21

Page 2.

Even if I use a personal example: when have I strayed into some sin & not felt the gentle tug of the Spirit - when have I persisted in that sin & not been drawn into deep conviction & sorrow for grieving the Lord Whom I love? Can I ever see myself being so drawn away, that I am willing to give up Christ for the World? Never. God's Spirit will persist with me, bearing upon my self-will & obstinacy, to restore me back to the Father. At least that's been my experience, & I perceive what Jesus spoke concerning the eternal security of those whom the Lord has secured ( John 6:39; John 10:27,28). But if I sense no conviction & a life of sin is more preferable, I would readily admit that I wasn't even saved - at least not saved by God, but saved by my reckoning.

Then in contrast & what perplexes me: if I would believe that my salvation could be lost due to gross sin or leaving the faith, that would mean that I would never know in the present, that I'm truly saved & accepted. Why? Because of the real possibility that I could become unsaved. Then what should I do to return back to the Lord & re-gain His Holy Spirit? Obviously, to repent of my sin & cleave to Him, as I did at the first. But would that be enough, since I would never know the intensity of the sin that separated me from God, to the measure of righteousness that would please Him & send His Spirit back to me. Then how much could I obey Him & earnestly follow Him to ensure my salvation? Or maybe, to hold such a belief means that only in that Day of Judgement will a Christian know whether he has believed enough, done enough, repented enough, to be accepted by God?

Psalms 139, Deuteronomy 4:30-40,

Words of Jesus : John 10:15,16, Matthew 15:24, Matthew 18:10-14, John 3:16, Romans 8,

Matthew 3:2, Matthew 4:17, Mark 1:15, Acts 2:38, Acts 3:19,

Hopefully these are helpful

Continued from previous.

What should be asked and a great concern is what should salvation look like in a believer because many shall be deceived.

First of all shall you continue in sin?

Paul answers that here in

Romans 6:1-4.

We have been REGENERATED, REBORN, Given a new heart and ready to present Christ work through us. Titus 3:4-6.

We have eternal life now that can bare fruit such as faith ect...

This is what James is saying in James 2:17-18.

What James is saying is he's going to show that this gift is in him by his works. You see a Christian is saved UNTO good works. Ephesians 2:10.

When you are saved, you are baptized into Christ. It is he that works in you. Philippians 2:13.

Also;

Philippians 1:6. Being confident of this very thing, THAT HE WHICH HATH BEGUN A GOOD WORK IN YOU WILL PERFORM IT UNTIL THE DAY OF JESUS CHRIST:

If you can loose your salvation all these scriptures means nothing.

Here's another scripture often used.

John 14:15. "If ye love me, keep my commandments."

Well look at the next verse.

Vs 16. "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, THAT HE MAY ABIDE WITH YOU FOR EVER; This Love is a fruit, so who is causing you to Love Christ? CHRIST SPIRIT, The HG.

Most people say you can loose your salvation also believes you can earn salvation which you can't do. And if they hold to that it's sad to say but the scripture says they have fallen from Grace. Galatians 5:4.

I believe this means comes up short.

Now if you come up short you will hear this. "And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matthew 7:23.

I never knew you can never be told to a believer because of this verse. "My sheep hear my voice,.... AND I KNOW THEM,.... and they follow me: John 10:27.

Now if a person have habitual sin in their life, Chances are you're not saved. And you can't loose what you don't have.

I hope this helps.

God bless.

Hi Renee.

In a way you we lost our salvation win Adam sinned. Romans 5:12. There is no way we can redeem ourselves. Isaiah 64:6. Without focusing on what the filthy rags are, have you ever tried cleaning with one? Our salvation is not in our hands. Our salvation and Sanctification is in the Lords hands.

If our lack of perfection couldn't achieve salvation, how is our lack of perfection going to keep salvation? or obtain it again if we lost it.

If you have ETERNAL LIFE you have it NOW.

John 10:28. And I give unto them eternal life; AND THEY SHALL NEVER PERISH, NEITHER SHALL ANY MAN PLUCK THEM OUT OF MY HAND.,

When we are saved we are sealed.

Ephesians 4:30. And grieve not the HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD, WHEREBY YE ARE SEALED UNTO THE DAY OF REDEMPTION.

It's God spirit in you, you may and will grieve him but he will never forsake you. Hebrews 13:5.

God bless.

John 18 and 19 The predestined plan of God-crucifixion and atonement

Rather than detailing each event in separate chapters; I am making some general points here.

It doesn't seem fitting to do a forensic analysis of the details of the horrors of crucifixion in studying this subject; but instead doing a broad based approach to the events which played out in the time when Christ voluntarily laid down His life. ( John 10:18).

In regard to Judas Iscariot; of course he was the predestined son of perdition prophesied in Psalm 41:9. There were curses to be on his descendants as well. As to Pilate; the discourse went down in chapter 18 where Christ plainly told him that all who are of the truth hear His voice ( John 18:37). His response "what is truth" in the next verse clearly shows he remained in darkness; albeit his sin wasn't to be as great as the others who brought Him to Pilate.

We also; of course see how Christ's statement to Peter came to pass. We can sort of call prophecy predestination in a way; unless it is based on conditional factors. Jesus knew Peter couldn't stand in his own strength; but was already preparing him for when he had a change of heart. Several prophecies are in chapter 19 along with the one in the other gospels where He asks why God foresook Him taken from Psalm 22.

This most important event in human history allows us to be with Him in heaven eternally.

That is the central message that should be in our minds as to the certainty that God's plan and will are accomplished. This calls for praise and a humble and contrite spirit as Psalm 51 indicates. Psalm 110:3 shows "we shall be made willing in the day of thy power..." and seems to reflect sentiments as Job 19:25 and Isaiah 26:19 on the Resurrection

Hi Fred.

Thank God for the Chief Shepherd and those who are truly his will always hear his voice!

John 10:3-4. To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth HIS OWN SHEEP by name, AND LEADETH THEM out.

And when he putteth forth HIS OWN SHEEP, he goeth before them, AND THE SHEEP FOLLOW HIM: FOR THEY KNOW HIS VOICE.

Here's something interesting and can be misunderstood.

They don't become his sheep by following him, They follow because they are his sheep. They follow him because they HEAR HIS VOICE. They have ears to hear and eyes to see.

This reminds me of

Matthew 13:9-16.

Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

This is in contrast to John 8:43-45.

The Lord is calling this sheep fold out of Judaism. Look at the previous verses.

John 9:39-41.

Then we Gentiles shall also hear him.

John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, AND THEY SHALL HEAR MY VOICE; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

God bless.

John 3:36 kjv: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 10:30: I and my Father are one.

Ephesians 6:11-18 kjv.

Revelation 19:11 kjv: And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse;

and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness

he doth judge and make war.

Hebrews 13:8 kjv: Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Hi Jackie. Yours would be the most unusual question that I've come across, but I'll try to assist by correlating manicure kits to a 'cutting or shaping' action in the Bible.

The verse that is foremost in my mind is from Hebrews 4:12: that of God's Word doing an intrusive, piercing/cutting, yet thorough work in a person's heart. Though a nail clipper/emery board may be useful to cut & shape nails, even flicking out some grit under the nail, God's Word is no mere man-made cutter, but is "quick (alive, active, at work), endued with God's Power & keeness (finely sharpened), that is able to penetrate the impenetrable (dividing the soul & spirit, getting in-between the bone & marrow), and judges & exposes the deepest thoughts & devises of our hearts." Their gifts of manicure kits should accomplish well the tasks they were made for - but God's Word strikes much further than a finger nail, going straight to a person's heart & spirit, to the end that a complete change can occur & not simply a superficial & temporary cut & shape.

We can find examples of this in the Apostle Peter's sermon at Pentecost ( Acts 2:14-41, especially verse 37 'pricked in their hearts') & Stephen's sermon in Acts 7:2-60, especially verse 54 'cut to the heart'). God's Word can either bring people to repentance & faith or cause some to well up in fury against the Truth. Such is the penetrating Power of God's Word with its divisive action that separates those hungering for the Peace of God & His Salvation in their hearts from those whose end is only anger against God & rejection of His Truth.

But Jesus said in John 10:10, "...I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." Jesus didn't come to just give us a quick cut & shape (a temporary fix to make us feel or look better) - He came to sacrifice His Life for each one of us, so that we might be forgiven of our sins, turn from them & become God's children, receiving an abundant life both now & into eternity.

John 11 and predestination

This chapter emphasizes more in the area of the sovereignty of God and the course Christ was ordained or predestined to follow on His way to the crucifixion in Jerusalem shortly to come to pass after the event with Lazarus. Therefore, there is the theme here of the final leg of the journey when Christ would finally voluntarily sacrifice His life and how He must be preserved until that hour; as well as the confusion as to the true state of Lazarus and when He would come back to life.

The time of His journey had to at least have two days further after the two where He remained where He was residing; once He finally got to where Lazarus was in verse 17.

The contrast between verses 4 and 11 seem to be an issue; but the issue seems to indicate that the final; permanent death or bodily decay wasn't going to happen yet. There could also be an indication here that only the body; not the soul sleeps in this situation. In any event; after confusion as to the timing of the restoration of Lazarus by Mary and others lack of faith while Christ remained on earth; once the miracle did occur it cemented the final plans to kill Him. Caiaphas made the prophetic statement about one man dying for the people in verse 50; not realizing the application for the Jews AND Gentiles through the death and Resurrection to come.

Jesus knew the exact time when He was to head to Jerusalem to die; as He followed the Father's lead in all things. See John 10:18 about Christ's understanding of His power and control on laying down His life AND raising it up again. When we understand the works He has set forth in Ephesians 2:10 prepared for us we also have God lead us through the Spirit.

We are to be conformed to the image of His Son ( Romans 8:29) after a process going from salvation to sanctification to glorification in the next verse (8:30).

John chapter 10

Predestination. This is a continuation of the discussion in chapter 9. Jesus explains the concept of His sheep hearing His voice; then there continued to be fractious dissention among some who listened to Christ because AGAIN; they couldn't deny that a blind man being healed had to have come from God.

We then switch to the scene of the "feast of dedication" otherwise known as Hanukkah. There were Jews there; perhaps some others and the previous Pharisees; who asked Him point blank if He was the Christ (or Savior). He then told them that He clearly was; but that they were NOT His sheep and couldn't hear His voice. The concept of election of those who were given to Him (v. 29): and His unity with God (as part of the Godhead).

Once AGAIN they prepared to stone Him. He told them once AGAIN in verse 38 to at least believe Him for the works sake and that just led to another attempt to seize Him; then He escaped. Then ironically where he went where John had done NO miracles they believed because His testimony had been true about Christ. In this case it was the opposite of when people often demanded miracles as evidence that He was Christ; clearly those spiritually blind were not convinced EITHER way.

Predestination and John 10

This entire chapter is based on the Pharisees; a blind man, the Disciples and a few others and Christ as revealed to them. along In a verse from the next chapter; Jesus states believe me; or if not at least on the WORKS I do ( John 10:38). Jesus selected or elected this man for healing; without him asking first which is noteworthy.

Verse 2 starts out with the Disciples themselves blindly following a superstitious idea that someone had to have sinned in order for the man to be in this condition. This at least partially could have been a logical concept since others had been healed who were told not to sin lest a worse thing happen to them; for instance from John 5:14. Jesus answered this "one size fits all" concept of the fate of this man by giving God's glory as a reason; as well as a prophetic hint perhaps partially fulfilled at His crucifixion; with a final one after the end of the Age of Grace in v. 4-5.

After he followed simple instructions; first his neighbors asked what had happened and if it was Him; then the Pharisees with their usual condemnation of Sabbath Day healings, they checked with the parents who verified his identity then sent him back to them; then further discourse as to Christ's character and repeated questions actually got the blind man to realize that Christ could not be a sinner as no man could do this miracle in that case. This led to him being thrown out of the synagogue; His revelation and acceptance and worship of Christ as SOn of God. Then comes the end where the Pharisees are told they remain in sin and the blind man sees spiritually and physically.

Therefore; despite continuing evidence of God's divine nature in Christ's actions; the blind Pharisees continue to be blinded by the god of this world to Christ as Lord and Savior.

I'm so thankful that God loves us all the way he does. I'm oftentimes troubled by the inhumanity I see in the world and around me. Yet the WORD so easily comforts me.

I am saved and redeemed by our Lord and Savior Jesus sacrifice. Allowing himself to be crucified for us i have eternal life. His blood is the remittance for our sin Praise God. I was crushed on February 16 1983 ironically ash Wednesday, by a semi tractor trailer. I have lost now, my right kidney to small cell carcinoma and I'm often in tremendous pain. My left kidney has a mass on it now... I am hopeful that you will pray for me and keep me in your prayers. I know the power of prayer this is why i ask you to kindly KEEP me in your prayers. If I don't see you here on earth I'll certainly see you in Heaven. My favorite psalm is 145 I'm so thankful for them all but this one feels like it was written just for me. I was ran over bodily at 18 years of age a 40 thousand pound vehicle passed over my body from my knees to my upper chest. Four days shy of seven months I spent in the hospital. God spared my life and my tragedy gave me an outlook a thankfulness for this life, thankful for our gifts and abilities I should say that most will never know. It enriched my life because I got to see and experience a life, understanding that most in this lifetime will never know. I'm 58 now and arthriticaly I'm unraveling bodily also. I have loved God our Heavenly FATHER and thanked HIM always for all things. I have been blessed to see through different lenses after being crushed. A vision that allowed me to see things, to see such wonderful value in the wondrous things most men easily overlook. I pray that ALL MANKIND find their happiness in one another, their families and our simple needs being satisfied. ALL GLORY BE TO GOD OUR HEAVENLY FATHER. AMEN Isaiah 41:10

Francesco:

It's the LIVING WORD that teaches us by studying his written word: He wrote it; he will CAUSE you to understand, his word.

You have not, because you ASK NOT, and when you ask, you ask amiss; things to be consumed by the flesh.

To whom much is GIVEN ....The LIFE of Christ ....much more will be GIVEN .... the MIND (knowledge and wisdom) of Christ.

Stand firm in what the SPIRIT teaches YOU.

Psalms 82:6 I have SAID ( Isaiah 55:11) Ye are gods, the children of the most high.

John 10:35 If he (the written word) called them gods, unto whom (unto Francesco) the (living) WORD (Christ in you) came, the scripture CANNOT be broken.

God bless YOU, the body of CHRIST, and Christ is the body of GOD, OUR Father.

Hello Nats:

I prayed for you and God showed me these short answer to your question. God also reveals to me you are a very special person for recognizing God. You are correct Jesus Christ is the Son of God and Jesus never said He is God. God also gave us in scriptures in the Old Testament that God is the LORD (all uppercase). In the New Testament, the Lord (only "L") is Jesus Christ. Since God sent God's "only begotten Son" (5X mentioned in the NT) you will find that Jesus Christ said in John 10:30 "I and my Father are one.". Another very STRONG Bible verses that showed evidences Jesus Christ is God are the following )along with the entire NT and our fellowbelievers whom I believe are considered saints:Giannis and Vince who responded to your comment):

Acts 2:34-36

Luke 20:42-44

Revelation 11:8

Revelation 11:15

Revelation 15:3-4 The song of the Lamb Who is Jesus Christ. These verses I sing in my head all the time.

Revelation 17:4

My friend, I will be happy as much as God will and the entire Body of Christ to hear that you believe Jesus Christ is God. Agape.

Hi Barb, I don't think it must be one or the other.

The Bible is full of metaphors to explain things like our relationship to God. I see T. Levis shared scriptures for "sons", so I'll share different ones:

Be like children:

Matthew 18:3

Romans 8:17

Galatians 4:6

Be people and sheep:

Psalms 100:3

John 10:11

Jeremiah 50:6

We're clay:

Isaiah 64:8

We're branches:

John 15:5

We're salt:

Matthew 5:13

I'm sure there's more.

The medical term is called " hematohidrosis " extreme levels of stress, can cause it. " There are multiple blood veins netted around the sweat glands, in net formation, that constrict under the pressure of great stress" "fear and intense mental contemplation are the most frequent causes" recorded under National Library of Medicine, .gov

It can & did occur. Luke 22:44, "sweat as it were great drops of blood"

Let's look into Jesus' stress._._ he had known people were plotting to kill him, Matthew 17:22-23, Matthew 21:38, Mark 9:31, Luke 20:14, Luke 22:2, Jesus knew it was the religious hypocrites that were plotting instead of teaching the sheep (his beloved sheep) John 8:37, John 7:1,19,20 even calling him opposite of Christ, John 10:19,20,

Mark 10:34, here: Jesus even knew how & explained it. Isaiah 52, Psalms 22,

He knew he would be on public display, clothing taken from him, they would gamble for them: Psalms 22:18,19

Jesus knew he was being betrayed & even said go quickly, John 13:27,

Jesus knew the followers would scatter, anyone who loves those who depend on them in anyway never wishes to leave them, especially unprepared, afraid, in danger, alone, being pursued, John 17, John 10:11,12, Luke 12:4, Matthew 24:9,

Those are only some of the details. Extreme stress none of us have faced to that level. Hebrews 4:15,

Hopefully these are helpful to your discussion/ debate / controversy. 2Timothy 3:16,

John 10:17,18, Titus 2:13-15, Mark 14:8,18,21,41, Matthew 16:21,

Isaiah 53, John 3:15-17,

Matthew 26:46- keep reading through, Matthew 27, full chapter , Mark 14:42-72 through- Mark 15, whole chapter,

Hopefully these are helpful

I'd like to share 2 thoughts on predestination:

1. Regarding John 10:36 "neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" if you look at the context Jesus is talking only about his sheep. The sheep are His followers, or, Christians. Not everyone is a sheep. They are choosing to follow Jesus and choosing to believe and choosing be sheep by their own freewill and decisions. We know this because of what it says just prior to that. John 10:25-27. In v26 he says they are NOT His sheep because they don't believe. So, if we combine this verse with Matthew 7:13-14 one can presume that most are NOT sheep. Many most are wolves and some are wolves in sheep's clothing. Matthew 7:15.

2. Jeremiah 29:11 "I know the thoughts" or "plans" and hope for a "future" some translations say. Just because an all-knowing God can know this doesn't automatically mean its robbing you of freewill. You are not an automatic robot following a specific script. God is big and powerful enough to know everything and also let us have freewill at the same time, even if little human brains have a hard time comprehending it. God is much bigger than our assumed limitations. God is also big enough to change His mind, as happened relating to Sodom and Gomorrah.

Maybe God's plan is just a broad overview of what would be best for you, maybe like a map, but its up to you whether you follow it or not. Maybe you take a few detours along the way, maybe you get confused and even go the wrong way at times. This doesn't automatically mean you are following God's plan. Maybe you're not following Him at all. I think if you ask most people who believe in predestination, they generally admit that when they ordered a chicken sandwich for lunch and held the pickles that it was mostly their choice and not necessarily God's plan. Or when a Christian sins 1 John 1:8, I don't think most people actually believe that God causes people to sin. God forbids us to tempt or lead others to stumble in sin: Luke 17:1-4.

God bless.

Dear Nats:

Even if I say Giannis has explained it very well, if you not "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." 2 Peter 1:20-1. I can only perceived by reading "Nats if Jesus is God" you are still searching if Jesus Christ is God. I would be happy to show you how to be saved and obtain the Holy Spirit. Only then the verses you have inquired about will make sense to you because the Holy Spirit will guide you to the truth.

In John 10:36 Jesus Christ himself said He is the Son of God. If you read the entire conversation between the unbelieving Jews and Jesus Christ they will not believe no matter how anybody explained it to them. It is already prophesied in Isaiah 6:9-10, Isaiah 42:20; Jeremiah 5:21; Acts 28:27; Roman's 11.8

In John 14:28 the situation was that Jesus was about to fulfill another prophesy and that was to die on the cross for the sins of the world 1 John 2:2. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Colossians 2:2-3. When Jesus was buried and rose again the third day according to the scriptures, Jesus fulfilled what God the Father sent Jesus to do on earth. The mystery is that God the Father is greater than Jesus the Son of God. Remember Jesus came to Virgin Mary from God the Father. Then Jesus has to go unto the Father after Jesus rose the third day so the Comforter (i.e. Holy Spirit) will be fulfilled. John 14:16; John 14:26; John 15:26; John 16:7. There is only one God. Romans 3:30; 1 Corinthians 8:6; Ephesians 4:6; 1 Timothy 2:5; James 2:19. Hope this helps and that you be saved soon. Good question.

Psalms 23:1-4. The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.

He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.

He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

"Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Notice that God compares Himself to aShepherd. It demonstrates the love, care, and protection of God for his children; and it also demonstrates the utter helplessness of the child of God.

Thesheep simply cannot survive without a Shepherd. THE ROD WAS TO KEEP THE SHEEP IN THE SHEEPFOLD and keep them from going astray. This protected them from the enemy.

Also see.

John 10:11-15. I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.

I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

Here's why this is so comforting.

John 10:27-30. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

I and my Father are one.

I hope this helps.

God bless.

I'm probably not going to answer this Biblically enough. If you have a destination in mind_you buy a ticket and go stand on the train platform for boarding.

If we wait to do something or respond; until "we feel like it", the moment can completely pass by us.

No one is guaranteed tomorrow. Best to move on it when it today. " Today if you hear My Voice"

Dave,

John 10:29 is not talking about predestination and predestination has nothing to do with God choosing who goes to Heaven and who goes to Hell. John 10:29 is showing the permanency of salvation to those who are presently saved.

Dear Dave

Predestination in the sense that God knows who is going to accept Jesus' sacrifice and be saved and predestined them for eternal life, then yes this is right. But predestination in the sense that God planned beforehand whom He is going to save and act accordingly, then no this is wrong. If the latter was true then God wouldn't be righteous. Love, Truth and Righteousness is God's nature. God will not condemn people for what they would or wouldn't have done bur for what they do or don't. The verse you state from John means that nobody can take us from God, as long as we stay on the right path. Interpretation of verses must always be done in accordance to all other verses that are related to the same topic.

Predestination, like .secured salvation no matter what, in my opinion are wrong beliefs.

GBU