John
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If God doesn't want us MIXING cattle with a diverse kind, or a sow a field with MIXED SEED, it seems to me he wouldn't want Jews and Gentiles mixing or people of different races mixing. (mixed-race-marriages, mixed-race-offspring)
John 10:30 (Jesus speaking) "I and my Father are one."
If God said "Thou shalt not", Jesus wouldn't contradict Him. No where did Jesus say mixed-race (fooling around) was okay.
1 Kings Chapter 11:
1 But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites;
2 Of the nations concerning which the LORD said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love.
.....and as a result, Solomon's wives brought their idols into his house.
However, if you read the KJV you can maybe interpret this differently. "My Father, which gave THEM ME, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."
Please read: John 10:1-18, Psalms 100:3,
Luke 12:22-32,
Matthew 26:31-75, Mark 14:27-72, Matthew 26:26-29, Mark 14:22-25, prophecy from Old Testament: Isaiah 53, Zechariah 13:7,
Example of people lovingly referred to as sheep : 2Samuel 24:17, 1Chronicles 21:17, 2Chronicles 18:16, Psalms 74:1, Psalms 78:52, Psalms 79:13, Ezekiel 34:6,
Matthew 9:26, Matthew 18:12,13, Mark 6:24, 1Peter 2:25, compassion,
Deuteronomy 8:3,
John 6:47-69, notice in that moment "Simon Peter"'s reply: John 6:68,
Hopefully these are helpful
There's a powerful evil force in the world and then There's The Lord of TRUTH. Truth is being attacked by those who CANNOT hear the truth.
John 8:40-47. But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
WHY DO YE NOT UNDERSTAND MY SPEECH? EVEN BECAUSE YE CANNOT HEAR MY WORD.
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
CONCLUSION.
This is said about one group. WHY DO YE NOT UNDERSTAND MY SPEECH? EVEN BECAUSE YE CANNOT HEAR MY WORD.
This is said about the other group. John 10:27-28. MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE, AND I KNOW THEM, and they follow me:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
I'm not able to follow your thought process on all your points, but some. I think most of your points fall within the same logic/belief that Jesus prayed and referred to the Father as "God" and even prayed to "God" therefore how can Jesus be God and pray to Himself? Am I understanding your position accurately? If so, I think most of your "If Jesus is God..." arguments seem to fall within this one overall assumption.
The thing missing from this assumption is that Jesus is not in His normal state. He became a man to go to earth to live as us and to die for our sins. John 1. Yes, Jesus prayed to God the Father. I believe He limited His power to a degree to live on Earth like us. I think He could have exercised His power, but chose not to. Example: Matthew 26:53.
Philippians 2:6 - this says Jesus is equal to God. Verse 7-8 says he humbled Himself as a servant as a man. v9-11 then Jesus was exalted, that every knee will bow and confess Jesus is Lord, name above all other names.
If you believe the Bible when it says that says Jesus created all things ( John 1:3 ), is equal to God ( phil 2:6), is one with God ( John 10:30), is God ( John 1:1), has a name above all other names ( Phil 2:9-11), should be baptized in His name ( Matthew 28:19) then is it such a stretch to believe that's true?
Simply believing what the Bible says is not a 'doctrine' as some claim, but those believing things the Bible doesn't say is definitely a human doctrine.
I get that people have a hard time comprehending that God is plural and how exactly that words out. We will find out in the end. But just because people don't understand 1 John 5:7 doesn't mean it's not true. Truth is true regardless of whether people choose to believe it or not.
John 8:58 - What do you think Jesus meant when he said "I am"?
Exodus 3:14 - What do you think of God saying "I am"?
John 5:23 - strong warning to anyone who dishonors Jesus.
God bless.
I appreciate your respectul remarks and am ok with continuing to dialog as long as that remains.
I can offer a challenge to few of your points in your last comment.
1. John 1:1 says, "In the beginning", God does not have a beginning.
It sounds like you are using this as evidence to support your view. I don't view it that way at all. First, this says "in the beginning" not "in God's beginning" or "in the Word's beginning". So, this phrase doesn't suggest any limitation on God whatsoever, but is just marking for us in our own human terms that Jesus was always there.
Do you remember Jesus saying this: "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." That doesn't mean He's limited, but the opposite, it means He spans everything! Revelation 22:13 - notice the words in red that Jesus said that.
It also says this in Revelation 1:8, notice it says "says the Lord". Lord is Greek word kurios which is supreme authority or God. Some translations say "says the Lord God" and is the same meaning. This is Jesus speaking about Himself, it too is in red.
Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." - notice this is the same claim Jesus made in Revelation. If there's only one and only one who makes that claim then it seems logical that the claim in both the New and Old Testament are from the same being.
Revelation 11:17 - This uses the same word Lord (kurios) of which Jesus is Lord ( Romans 10:9) and uses the word theos (God) with it, so it calls Jesus "Lord God." Do you agree? How do you feel about this verse?
Isaiah 43:11 - "I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour." So, it says Jesus is Lord and our savior in the New Testament and there's no other Lord. Here in the OT it also says the Lord is the savior and no one else. That is all in alignment with John 10:30. Yes?
John 5:23 - we must honor Jesus.
Adam has given you several great pieces of scripture to support the claim that Jesus is indeed God.
It is true that the bible does not say "Jesus is God" in those exact words, but it also does not say (in your words) that "Jesus was spoken into existence." Jesus was not spoken into existence. To believe that, we would also have to deny His deity.
You ask, "So what's hard to understand that Jesus is the Son of God?"
It's not hard to understand. I believe Jesus is the Son of God. But what does the phrase "Son of God" mean? What did it mean to the Jews? If Jesus claimed to be the Son of God, was He wrong for doing so? Obviously to the Jews, Jesus was claiming to be God Himself. For that claim, they accused Him of blasphemy and the penalty according to Leviticus 24:16 was death.
Did Jesus ever claim to be God? John 10:30-33 would indicate so. Jesus said "I and my Father are one." Notice who He's saying this to? The Jews! In Verse 31, it says they took up stones to kill Him. So what was wrong with Jesus' claim? Why would the Jews want to kill Him for saying that?
The answer is in John 10:33. They wanted to kill Jesus because He claimed to be God. To them He committed blasphemy by making Himself God. They took up stones to kill Jesus for saying "I and my Father are one." Notice that Jesus didn't say "Wait a minute guys, before you stone me, I think you are misunderstanding what I said, so let's talk about this?" Jesus did not correct them because what they said "thou, being a man, makest thyself God," is exactly what Jesus meant.
In Matthew 16:16, Peter gives the correct response to who Jesus is; "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." Peter was a Jew, and he knew exactly what he was saying when he said Jesus was the Son of the living God. To a Jew, the phrase "Son of God," or "Son of the living God" is the same as calling someone God Himself, and that's exactly what Peter said in his response to the question Jesus asked.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
Who is the Word?
John 1:14-15 says the Word is Jesus. Does anyone deny that the Word is Jesus?
If someone believes John 1:14, then do they believe John 1:1
"...the Word was God."
"...[Jesus] was God."
JESUS.
WAS.
GOD.
John 1:1
This is God's Word.
Some here are saying "Jesus was NOT God" despite John 1:1 clearly saying Jesus WAS God. I'd like to know exactly how someone can believe in all other verses of the Bible except this one? If something WAS something, that seems to offer little room for interpretation. It means it's the same, does it not? So, if something WAS something, how does someone twist this into believing it says something WAS NOT something?
It then must be asked: since it takes so much effort to take a sentence something WAS something to turn it into: something WAS NOT something, what is the true underlying motive here? Does God's Word carry the most weight and influence or does something else?
This is eerily similar to Gen 3:4 where satan denied what God said and claimed that they shall NOT surely die. Satan loves opposites and this seems to have his signature, does it not?
I welcome any perspective I'm missing, but do not consider anything other Bible verses as valid evidence. God's Word is all that matters and because there's already numerous verses supporting that Jesus is God like John 1:1 then that is what is true. Lastly, why not just pray and ask God directly to know the truth? Genuinely ask!
1 John 5:7-8
John 10:30
John 8:19
Genesis 1:26
Genesis 11:6-7
(plural "us")
Philippians 2:5-8
2 Corinthians 5:19
John 1:3
Matthew 28:19
1 Peter 1:2
2 Corinthians 13:14
Deuteronomy 6:4
John 14:10
John 20:28
1 John 2:22-24
Matthew 1:23-25
Colossians 2:9
Acts 17:29
Romans 1:20
Isaiah 7:14
Hebrews 1:8
Isaiah 44:6
Isaiah 43:11
This is an interesting logical argument. I find that in 1 Peter 3:22. Let's assume for argument's sake that your conclusion is correct and you get 1 point for this.
But for every verse you cite, there are even more that say that Jesus IS God, like John 1:1 saying the "Word was God" and verse 14 that Jesus is the Word.
This could continue to play out and you can cite any number of verses to support your position, but again we don't run out of very compelling verses saying that Jesus is God.
Let's say that it's a dead even race. 30 verses suggesting Jesus isn't vs 30 verses suggesting He is.
Then what? Which do you choose to believe?
I don't know if you've gone through this exercise or not, but I now have a spoiler: someone will run out of verses supporting that Jesus "isn't" God long before the verses supporting He IS God. Not only that, but each of the verses commonly cited to claim that Jesus "isn't" God require some extra creative interpretation and human logic whereas the verses supporting the other side can be read and interpreted more literally. Not only that, but there's logical explanations for why Jesus called His Father God. The main reason is that He temporarily became a human being and limited His power. Phil 2:6-7. So, yes, as a man, He prayed to His Father and called Him God. So, all verses must be considered as a whole, not cherry picked in order to have understanding about the Godhead and I admit it is hard to comprehend as we don't have anything like it in on earth. But perhaps like an orange with seeds, pulp, skin. Someone calls pulp an orange, and it is.
1 John 5:7-8
John 10:30
John 8:19
Genesis 1:26
, Genesis 11:6-7 (plural "us")
Philippians 2:5-8
2 Corinthians 5:19
John 1:3
Matthew 28:19
1 Peter 1:2
2 Corinthians 13:14
Deuteronomy 6:4
John 14:10
John 20:28
1 John 2:22-24
Matthew 1:23-25
Colossians 2:9
Acts 17:29
Romans 1:20
Isaiah 7:14
Hebrews 1:8
Isaiah 44:6
Isaiah 43:11
Other Scriptures have been given on this thread, but I would emphasize only a few:
John 17:5 - Jesus had God's Glory even before the worlds were created.
Matthew 1:23 - Jesus' Name, Emmanuel, is "God with us".
Colossians 1:15-17 - Jesus is God's Image; Jesus created all things; Jesus was before all things & He holds all things together.
John 10:30 - Jesus' claimed equality with God, for this very reason the Jews wanted to stone Him.
Just a few very compelling verses to show beyond doubt that this Jesus was not a mere created being for the world's salvation. He was the Essence of God (the Word of God made flesh) Who was declared as God coming in the flesh ( John 1:1-14).
We would have to discount Jesus' former Glory in Heaven, His Name as, "God now with mankind", His creative & sustaining Work, and His Own claim of equality with the Father, to believe that Jesus was anything less than wholly Divine in Heaven & on Earth.
It may be difficult for our fickle human minds to comprehend such concepts & Truths, but our weaknesses should not prohibit us from believing God's Word & the necessity for God Himself to pay to secure our salvation (this is His love demonstrated) - no other sacrifice would do - not even a special created human being or a specially prepared animal. If the people of His day understood it & the apostles & early Church believed it, then where & how did we go wrong by rejecting His Deity?
OLD TESTAMENT PROPHECY OF PROPET ISAIAH
SHEDDING OF BLOOD FOR REMISSION OF SINS
Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isaiah 43:10 - Ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I [am] he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isaiah 43:11 - I, [even] I, [am] the LORD; and beside me [there is] no saviour.
Isaiah 44:6 - Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I [am] the first, and I [am] the last; and beside me [there is] no God.
NEW TESTAMENT - OLD TESTAMENT PROPHECY FULFILLED
JESUS SHED BLOOD, DIED ON THE CROSS, RISEN FROM THE DEAD, ASCENDED INTO HEAVEN
John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 - The same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 - All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:14 - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 8:58 - Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
John 10:30 - I and [my] Father are one.
John 14:6 - Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Colossians 1:15 - 22 - Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist
heavens and earth. To create biblically is to bring into existance that which never existed before. Now verse two carefully and the
earth was without form and void and darkness was upon the faces of the deep. An interesting point about the word was in scripture sometimes its italicised and sometimes it isn't and italicised words were added to original writings. Now the bible is Gods Word and can't or shouldn't contradict itself. In 1 john 1:5 we read GAOD IS LIGHTAND IN HIM IS NO DARKNESS AT ALL, also
in gospel of JOHN 10:9 THE THIEF COMETH NOT BUT TO STEAL KILL AND DESTROY [MAKE USELESS] THIS IS THE DEVIL OR SATANS DOING. Between Gen. 1:1 and 1;2 is where lucifer was thrown out of Heaven and cast down to earth and ruined original creation. Notice after verse two God didn't create until verse 21, between verse 3and 21 he said he he called he set he let so
he set back in order that which was originally there. In regards to replenish in the beginning there was life before Adam and eve
but the only thing that remains are fossils so we speculate on what that life may have been. Thats why God said replenish again
my understanding.
Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7
Isaiah 6:8
Romans 1:20*
Colossians 2:9
Acts 17:27-30
1 John 5:7
John 10:30
"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and GODHEAD so that they are without excuse:"
Genesis 1:1
The Father purposes
The Word (Jesus) speaks. ( John 1:1)
The Spirit (Holy Spirit) executes the spoken word. Action.
All working together. Jesus came to show us the Father, as Emmanuel.
Matthew 1:23
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God WITH US. [Jesus]
{Comment} Jesus came to bring to each born again believer; the baptism and the in-dwelling of the Holy Spirit.
[ Genesis 1:2, John 3:6, Acts 2:1-3, John 16: 7-15]
Upon being born again, Jesus gives the Holy Spirit to teach us scripture, comfort us, convict us of sin, enable us to be witnesses. Stay in the New Testament at first.
Mishael
May these verses help to shine some light for you to understand that Jesus is in fact God.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Here Jesus is speaking to the Apostle John in Revelation 22:13
"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."
There are three (3) entities in the Godhead. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Many people struggle with trying to understand this unique and very special relationship.
GB you
We get that question a lot.
That question is the source of a lot of debates and division for years.
For me here is a couple of reasons why I no longer like to answer those"original" posts directly.
1) In a way it is like a person asking "if you commit suicide will you go to Heaven?" I am cautious to give an answer to that: afraid of what one might do with that information.
( It can prompt one to continue in sin.)
2) Some ask that question rhetorically. ( Looking for a debate )
You asked for "scripture" on once saved always saved ".Please Forgive me for asking is that a rhetorical question?
However, To be cautious in my answer I would say examine by what means where you saved and your answer lies there.
I can not loose my salvation because I have a great Shepherd who layed down his life for me and calls me by name!! "He said he will never say to me I never knew you!" And he said "no man or myself can pluck me out of his hand!
John 10:28-29.
This same Shepherd said he will NEVER leave or forsake me and he would abide with me forever.
Hebrews 13:5.
John 14:16.
He will NEVER leave or forsake me and he would abide with me forever!!
Now notice John 14:17.
" Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; FOR HE DWELLETH WITH YOU, AND
( SHALL BE IN YOU )
He shall be in me and he shall never leave or forsake me!
In order for us who are "TRULY" saved to loose our salvation; Christ would have to be able to loose his salvation.
Colossians 3:3.
Examine ourselves and by what means you were saved and the answer lies there.
God bless.
For HE (the Father, Spirit, Life) performeth the thing that is appointed for me (the Body).......
Philippians 2:13 For it is God (the Father, Spirit, Life) that worketh in you (the Body) both TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.
Ephesians 4:4 ONE BODY .....ONE SPIRIT .....
Ephesians 4:6 ONE GOD and Father of ALL .....
Not many BELIEVE that the LIFE in their BODY is CHRIST.
Matthew 7:14 Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way, that leadeth unto LIFE, and few there be that find it.
John 10:10 .....I am come that they might HAVE LIFE ......
John 19:28 I give unto them ETERNAL LIFE ...
1 Timothy 6:18 WHO only (CHRIST ONLY) hath immortality, dwelling in the LIGHT which no man can approach unto .....
John 11:25 I am the resurrection, and THE LIFE .....
John 14:6 ....I am THE LIFE .....
John 20:31 ....and that BELIEVING you might have LIFE through HIS NAME .....
Revelation 22:4 ....and HIS NAME shall be in their foreheads .....
Revelation 3:12 ...and I will write upon him MY NAME .....
Acts 2:38 ....be ye baptised every one of you IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST .....
John 17:21 That they all may be ONE, as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also be ONE IN US ......
God Bless You.
Please note: Genesis 29:31-35, Genesis 35:23,
Genesis 44:18-34, Judah offers to be taken prisoner & suffer for his brother's accused crimes, because of the love he had for his father. Note: John 10:14-42, John 14, John 17, John 3:10-21,
Note: Exodus 12:35-38, Exodus 12:48, Esther 8:17,
Genesis 49:1,2,8,9,10,11,12, Genesis 46:12, Luke 3:23-38, Hebrews 7, Hebrews 8:7-13, - Hebrews 9, Matthew 2:1,5,6, Revelation 5:5,
Notice Genesis 49:10,11,12 = Matthew 21:1-16, Mark 11:1-10, Luke 19:30-46, John 12:11-16, Matthew 26:17-56, Mark 14:1-72, Luke 22:1-20,37,
Zechariah 13:6, Psalms 22:1,7,8,14,15,16,17,18,30,31, Matthew 27:35,37,41,43,46,51,52,53, Mark 15:3,6,15,20,24,27,28,29,31,32,34,38,
John 19:11,14,16,18,19,20,23,24,28,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,
Isaiah 53
Hopefully these are helpful
We cannot ignore Romans 1 and Psalm 19; two examples that show man deliberately ignoring the obvious design of nature and His Divine attributes. Man has a conscience; but that is already subjective as to our own emotions and will and fallen; and sin hardens it further so that it can become seared ( 1 Tim. 4:2). It is clear whatever school of thought we entertain that God knows who will be saved and who won't be ultimately as He knows all things. Jesus knew His sheep ( John 10:14); but also that Gospel shows that those who are NOT His sheep ( John 10:26). It is pretty clear that God has predetermined all who Christ will die for in that Gospel as well. We really don't get these concepts BEFORE in time and space we come to a state of repentance and new birth (again; things GIVEN by God). We must repent and be held accountable; whether it is for works done apart from grace for nonbelievers; or those done as believers at the Bema Seat Judgment. We also must agree that God is fair; judges impartially; and doesn't rejoice in the death of the wicked. (see Deut 29:29).
Jesus honored these things, along with His parents (on earth) Luke 2:22,23, Luke 2:41-49, John 4:45, John 5:1, John 10:22,23, even those who opposed Jesus expected Jesus to honor the appointed days : John 11:54-57, John 12, Even facing His own brutal death: Matthew 20:17,18 , Mark 10:32,33,34 do you think HE knew He was the Lamb,: Luke 2:38, Luke 18:31, that was going to be slain for Passover? That's why HE told them, as HE obediently set his face to go? Luke 9:51,
Matthew 21
Micah 6:6-8,
John 4:21-24, 2Corinthians 6:2, 2Colossains 2:16,17, Hebrews 10:1-19, Matthew 18:20,
Hopefully these are helpful
The basic premise is that we are all "children of wrath" by nature under condemnation apart from Christ. ( Eph. 2:3). If we cannot understand that man's heart is estranged from God; and that at best we try to avoid the consequences of sin rather than have any true remorse for offending a Holy; righteous and just God then we simply are living out a works based theology. Titus 1:15 shows further how our best actions are contaminated and defiled.
Human love only shows true affection for those who love us ( Matthew 5:46-48). To love those who "despitefully use us" ( Matthew 5:44) takes a change of heart; a Divine intervention and infusion of the Holy Spirit again which is given by God ( Ezekiel 36:26).
From OUR perspective we see ourselves drawn to the one from all eternity who created all things. ( Ecclesiastes 3:11). This verse shows again how even THIS is instigated in man's conscience by God. We need to realize that there is a process involved; as the parable of the seed and the sowers indicates. The seed from God (again planted on His initiative) is introduced; and ultimately must progress until "fruit is produced" (see also Matthew 3:8). TRUE repentance will overcome temptations that the Lord uses to prune us; as He "chastises all those He loves" ( Heb. 12:6; etc). God therefore initiates salvation; and the whole sanctification process ultimately leading to glorification ( Romans 8:17).
When we are saved; we have new desires to serve God and rejoice in the thought of service to Him now and in eternity. We begin a process of mortification of the deeds of the flesh ( Romans 8:13). From our perspective; we need to accept the truth about ourselves and our utter hopelessness apart from Christ in our own strength. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom ) Proverbs 9; Psalm 111; etc). Jeremiah 32:40 shows God gives that
hand, and the other on the left.
Here, the verb "said" records in the imperfect tense. An imperfect tense verb describes a continuous and repeated behavior or action.
In effect, JESUS CHRIST spoke these words many times regarding HIS FATHER's Forgiveness toward HIS crucifiers before HIS death on the cross.
Moreover, JESUS CHRIST spoke the verb "forgive" in the imperative mood. An imperative mood verb is a command which demands obedience.
BOTH GOD THE FATHER and GOD THE SON mutually agree perfectly with one another in all matters as CHRIST proclaimed in John 10:30: "I and MY FATHER are ONE."
As THEY are both ONE in Essence, so too are THEY both ONE in agreement, purpose, cooperation, and behavior. BOTH acts as unified One-ness in all matters.
BOTH GOD THE FATHER and GOD THE SON DIVINELY Designed, Purposed, and Willed this Forgiveness in eternity passed which is why JESUS CHRIST prayed these words from the cross and also which is why GOD THE FATHER willingly obeyed the imperative.
Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7
Isaiah 6:8
Romans 1:20
Colossians 2:9
Acts 17:27-30
1 John 5:7
John 10:30
"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and GODHEAD so that they are without excuse:"
Genesis 1:1
The Father purposes
The Word (Jesus) speaks. ( John 1:1)
The Spirit (Holy Spirit) executes the spoken word. Action.
All working together. Jesus came to show us the Father, as Emmanuel.
Matthew 1:23
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God WITH US. [Jesus]
{Comment} Jesus came to bring to each born again believer; the baptism and the in-dwelling of the Holy Spirit.
[ Genesis 1:2, John 3:6, Acts 2:1-3, John 16: 7-15]
Upon being born again, Jesus gives the Holy Spirit to teach us scripture, comfort us, convict us of sin, enable us to be witnesses. Stay in the New Testament at first.
1 John 5:7-8
Genesis 1:26
Genesis 11:6-7
John 10:30
John 8:19
Philippians 2:5-8
2 Corinthians 5:19
John 1:3
Matthew 28:19
1 Peter 1:2
2 Corinthians 13:14
Deuteronomy 6:4
John 14:10
John 20:28
1 John 2:22-24
Matthew 1:23-25
Colossians 2:9
Acts 17:29
Romans 1:20
Isaiah 7:14
Hebrews 1:8
Isaiah 44:6
Paul addresses adultry in the Church, 1Corinthians 5,
Hopefully these are all helpful
Here are some verses to get you started. God bless.
Colossians 2:9
Acts 17:29
Romans 1:20
John 1:1
1 John 5:7-8
Genesis 1:26
Genesis 11:6-7
John 10:30
John 8:19
Philippians 2:5-8
2 Corinthians 5:19
John 1:3
Matthew 28:19
1 Peter 1:2
2 Corinthians 13:14
Deuteronomy 6:4
John 14:10
John 20:28
1 John 2:22-24
Isaiah 7:14
Matthew 1:23-25
Hebrews 1:8
Isaiah 44:6
Another priesthood established after 400+ yrs of captivity of Israel in Egypt. Established in Exodus 28:1, described & defined & detailed in; Exodus 28, Ex. 29, Ex. 30, Ex. 31, Ex. 35, Ex. 38, Ex. 39, Ex. 40, Leviticus 1, note the Name, Aaron being in the Levi lineage= Exodus 2:1, Numbers 26:59, if you want to study the laws of the Priesthood all the chapters of Leviticus, I recommend.
Numbers 3:1-45, clarified who was allowed to be in the Priesthood. Note: Numbers 3:32, Numbers 4, breaks down duties of each family, within that tribe, separated by GOD specifically, Numbers 3:12-13, Numbers 3:41, Deuteronomy also describe the duties. This continued through the book of Joshua. King David & king Solomon, re-established the Levitical Priests; 1Chronicles 6:10, then again at the return of the Babylonian captivity re-established by Ezra, Nehemiah, Haggai, & all Israel that returned.
Therefore by these recorded accounts it appears the priesthood that existed during the moment your referring to in Mark 15, were traditional heirs of the priesthood as established, in Exodus. Respected & upheld by Jesus himself= Matthew 8:4, Mark 1:44, Luke 5:14,
Please read Isaiah 53, Zechariah 13:6, John 18:35,
Interestingly in: Luke 1:5, Luke 2, Hebrews 5, Hebrews 6, Jesus Our High Priest.
They swayed Pilate, Matthew 27:24, Mark 15:15, Luke 23:4-23, John 19:8-15, yet GOD ordained it & Christ allowed it, John 10:17,
I find it useful to read & study many Books of the Bible to answer my questions within one part of another Book.
Hopefully these are helpful & fully answer your questions
Jesus used it to emphasize His humanity ( Matthew 8:20; Mark 8:31), though there were occasions where He used the title, Son of God ( John 3:18; John 5:25; John 9:35-37; John 10:36; etc).
The title, Son of Man, also goes back to the Book of Daniel where the Son of Man would inherit the everlasting kingdom of God ( Daniel 7:13,14). It is a designation of the Messiah Who would inherit God's everlasting Kingdom.
At His trial Jesus acknowledged that He was indeed the Son of Man - the one who would bring in God's everlasting kingdom ( Matthew 26:64,65). When the religious leaders heard this they accused Him of blasphemy - making Himself equal with God.
The purpose of the title seems to be Jesus' Own emphasis on His Humanity. And through His Humanity, doing the Works of God as none other had done before & bringing the Words of God as they never heard before, the people would also see that this was no ordinary man (as was believed, the son of Joseph & Mary), but One of God, sent by God. Jesus' Life even till His Death proved to at least some folk that this Son of Man was indeed the Son of God: they needed to come to realize this fact by observation, not by His proclamation.
Read these verses.
Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7
Isaiah 6:8
Romans 1:20 *
Colossians 2:9
Acts 17:27-30
1 John 5:7
John 10:30
"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and GODHEAD so that they are without excuse:"
Genesis 1:1
The Father purposes
The Word (Jesus) speaks. ( John 1:1)
The Spirit (Holy Spirit) executes the spoken word. Action.
All working together.
Matthew 1:23
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God WITH US. [Jesus]