Discuss John 13 Page 3

Pt. 3.

Chris

Well it really gets long, I hope I don't tire you.

Please read Ezekiel 18:24. "But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die." Since one's righteousness will not be mentioned, and he will die in his sin, what should I therefore conclude? That he is going to hell, isn't it so?

Hebrews 10:26-27 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries."

In the above Paul doesn't talk about unbelievers, for those salvation is always available even if they once rejected it. Paul talks about people who were once in faith but later lost their faith and believed that Jesus' sacrifice and Blood were nothing really.

So brother my belief is that if ones turns away from God, and despite God's efforts to make him repent, he dies in his sin then he will not enter Heaven but hell.

Now I want to ask you a question. We agree that if somebody seeks salvation not only through Jesus' sacrifice, but through works, then he is not granted salvation. So what do you make of those Jews that believed to Jesus but still obeyed the Law of Moses. James said to Paul in Acts 21:20 "And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:". Those thousands of Jews were saved, weren't they? But how come since they were zealous of the law?

I don't mean to be offensive even if sometimes it seems so. If we don't agree it is OK, we actually know what we both believe but we try to get to a possible agreement

God Blessings

The Old Testament references ( Genesis 18:4; 19:2; 24:32; 43:24; Judges 19:21; 1 Samuel 25:41; 2 Samuel 11:8; Song of Solomon 5:3; Psalms 58:10) show that the washing of the feet was the first act on entering the tent or house after a journey. The Orientals wore only sandals, and this washing was refreshing as well as cleanly. In the case of ordinary people, the host furnished the water, and the guests washed their own feet, but in the richer houses, the washing was done by a slave. It was looked upon as the lowliest of all services ( 1 Samuel 25:41). Jesus pointedly contrasts Simon's neglect of even giving Him water for His feet with the woman's washing His feet with tears and wiping them with her hair ( Luke 7:44). On the last evening of His life, Jesus washed the disciples' feet ( John 13:1-16). Their pride, heightened by the anticipations of place in the Messianic kingdom whose crisis they immediately expected, prevented their doing this service for each other. Possibly the same pride had expressed itself on this same evening in a controversy about places at table. Jesus, conscious of His divine dignity and against Peter's protest, performed for them this lowliest service. His act of humility actually cleansed their hearts of selfish ambition, killed their pride, and taught them the lesson of love.

Amen Brother Chris.

Great parallel verses and if that expression of humility and service can come from the Lord we should have no problem serving one another.

John 13:12-17 So after he had washed their feet, and had taken his garments, and was set down again, he said unto them, Know ye what I have done to you?

Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.

If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.

For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them.

God Bless

Thanks GiGi, God bless you.

Have a wonderful vacay, Giannis.

Chris, I am currently on vacation. I'll come back to you when i'll be back, probably on Saturday.

Hi Giannis. Just one matter that struck me, from Richards reference to Galatians 5:4 ("falling from grace") & your reference to Hebrews 12:15 ("failing the grace of God"). Both Greek words are different as you know: (ekpipto; hustereo), indicating a different application. One, where those who seek justification by the Law instead of the Grace of God do not have salvation, and the other, those who don't "diligently" look to their manner of living (holiness), will receive the Lord's chastisement & fall short (fail) of God's Grace.

I seem to see a difference here: one where salvation is never possessed because of trusting in the Law, and the other, where salvation is undermined, not enjoying the fullness of God's Grace, receiving chastisement. The Hebrews writer goes on to write about Esau (v16) who relinquished his birthright (akin to a sinner rejecting God's Offer of salvation meant to be received & enjoyed by all, having lost all hope). He then introduces Moses ("him that spake on Earth" v25): if the Israelite disobeyed Moses' warnings, punishment of death ensued. And then to Jesus, the Mediator of the New Covenant (v24): how much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him.

In all these warnings, chastisement of the believer is God's Rod to bring the erring child back into line. But as those who refused to obey Moses under the Law & those who turn away from obeying Jesus under Grace, an untimely death will follow if warnings are not heeded. Some see the "shall we not escape" (v25), indicating that salvation would be lost if we turn away from Christ (as in Esau's rejection), but my question: is the matter of salvation spoken of here, or, the matter of death (as those so judged under Moses)? Does the believer lose his salvation or is he first chastised, even to loss of life, if he refuses to listen (he turns away - his ears/heart) from Jesus? An interesting passage; trying to marry up all the verses associated with it from verses 5 to 25.

Hello dear Richard.

A few thought about what you have written...

Hebrews 12:15-17

"15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.

17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it (the blessing) carefully with tears."

Can one fall of the grace of God? One case is the above. Verse 15 says because of a root of bitterness in a believers heart this can happen.

In verse 16,17 a person that is a fornicator or a profane person can not inherit the blessing(salvation). How come? Isn't the grace and forgiveness of God available to all people? Yes but under the condition of repentance (and not only). If one chooses to not repent for sins he does, even if that person is a believer, then the grace of God is not available to him, like Judas. If one chooses to leave God's way and get back to his original sinful life then the grace of God is not available to him, like Demas. There is always a condition so that the grace and forgiveness of God is available to people. And this is called Repentance. Believers who eventually leave this world in their unforgiven sins do not enter Heaven.

Judas most possibly didn't repent for Jesus' betrayal, and even if he actually did repent he didn't proceed with asking God's grace and forgiveness. Repentance is not enough, if not asking God to forgive and not asking for Jesus' Blood. Wordly people often repent for things they do but they are not forgiven by God because they don't ask for forgiveness and the Blood of Jesus. The 5 unwise virgins (virgin means believer) were not allowed into the Marriage because they ended up in darkness, not having light in their lamps. The light represants a pure life. Darkness represants a life with sins.

GBU

Could it be said, that retreating from grace is a condition that we, who believe, at one time or another might experiance?

Becoming as little children, learning as we go?

Your insight of Judas heart after He betrayed Christ, had become the unforgivable sin. It was true also of Simon his father who did not recognize the Savior. The "Hypnotic pull" you refer too, is the Power for his Father followed with the money for His Son!

Knowing the word as you do and backing it up with its verses, is a complete use and application of the word of God.

Judas did not follow Christ after his denial, as the others did. The desciples watched and followed

Judas did not believe, nor as you say was baptised, this spiritual condition would be his demise, as He threw himself off a cliff!

Thank you for sharing!

Godly sorrow leads to repentance; worldly sorrow to death. ( 2 Cor. 7:10). Note that it also leads to salvation and no regret.

This is illustrated with Peter who clearly knew Christ; but he in a sense had to be "converted" ( Luke 22:32) from the mindset of his old nature. This would be accomplished after the Resurrection and confirmed by the questioning of Christ as to whether he loved Him and the prophesied death for Christ that he would have to endure in the future ( John 21:18).

Judas Iscariot was only sorry for the consequences of what he did and still only saw Christ as the world did; a good man. Satan had held him for years with his greed and of course he betrayed Christ for a pittance: 30 pieces of silver. This suicidal mindset was probably a result of Satan's hypnotic pull suddenly ending; perhaps when whatever human conscience he had finally recovered. There was never any recognition given of Christ's Holiness nor was Judas ever rebuked by Him as Peter often was and no doubt everyone else. He "rebukes all those He loves" ( Rev. 3:19). Even though the other disciples ran away they still stayed from afar to witness what was happening. Judas couldn't face that. It is tragic that he could get to see the Resurrection 3 days later. He only faced an end to all meaningful existence in his mind; not realizing that he then should have sought repentance and a right standing with God. It is the sin nature which is the root cause; and we need to be Born Again to put our old self to death.

Galatians 5:4 discusses "falling from grace" in terms of attempting to follow the law again and whoever breaks it is accursed; where anyone who breaks the law even in one area according to James 2:10 breaks it all. Falling from grace would mean once trusting in grace then going back to the law; hence never really having a salvation experience where we are enlightened to grace being needed and our own helpless ability to follow the Lord. (see Romans 8:5-8).

If, we are in Christ we will experiance only those things that are in and of Him.

Consequently, without time or space, a moment in time ,if you will, without fear, who walk in the same paths of those that do and will love Him.

A pure condition that only looks too Him.

Even with the questions as the apostles had, we follow Him, waiting to see His next miracle, that will happen.

Are we like the apostles that are waiting and watching!?

Beholding the truths of His word?

How this one, Judas could not see, is an example of brothers whom I've known who have fallen by the wayside! Including myself!

Is falling from grace the same as Satan entering into the soul. What would it take to change our mind? Money?

These things we may soon find out!

Living in a time, this evil one waiting once again to control us.

Being a follower of Christ is, and will be the constant subject of interference in our relationship to our Father.

Is falling from grace the same as denial?

I think not, if it were, than Judas would not have tried giving back the money!

If I am wrong, please show me why.

John 13 and Predestination

This chapter; and the following are part of a private discourse between Christ and the 12 Disciples and demonstrate what has been prophesied in both veiled and now clear language as to what would happen to Christ; who whould betray Him; and once again God's inseparable relation to Christ when He is glorified as well as His elect (or chosen as stated in verse 18).

It is clear that Judas Iscariot was also called AND chosen for the evil betrayal; which was prophesied in Psalm 41:9. This verse ALSO shows how Judas was a "close friend who He trusted". There was pain because of the betrayal for this reason despite the inevitability of it Jesus gave him the sop which was traditionally given to a guest of honor. (Verse 26). This is why we cannot make election or predestination a mere intellectual concept. If Christ could love someone who was to be the "son of perdition" ( John 17:2) then who are we to not love our enemies; and pray for those who despitefully use us? ( Matt. 5:44).

We also need to see how Jesus loved His own unto the end (verse 1). Jesus surely had other things that could preoccupy Him after the Passover meal. Instead; He decided to reassure His disciples who still didn't get much of what He was saying. Verse 36 was the first hint that Peter would be restored after his fall into denial of Christ. He would die eventually and be with Christ. Here; he showed how being a servant was paramount in being a Godly example.

This was the culmination of what He had been saying for the last few years; and in a a few short days it would finally be clear to the Disciples what these concepts meant. Since all but one of the 12 would be martyred eventually; they had to strip themselves of any self reliance and follow the Master's footsteps. Divine help through the Spirit for all these things would soon arrive at Pentecost.

The medical term is called " hematohidrosis " extreme levels of stress, can cause it. " There are multiple blood veins netted around the sweat glands, in net formation, that constrict under the pressure of great stress" "fear and intense mental contemplation are the most frequent causes" recorded under National Library of Medicine, .gov

It can & did occur. Luke 22:44, "sweat as it were great drops of blood"

Let's look into Jesus' stress._._ he had known people were plotting to kill him, Matthew 17:22-23, Matthew 21:38, Mark 9:31, Luke 20:14, Luke 22:2, Jesus knew it was the religious hypocrites that were plotting instead of teaching the sheep (his beloved sheep) John 8:37, John 7:1,19,20 even calling him opposite of Christ, John 10:19,20,

Mark 10:34, here: Jesus even knew how & explained it. Isaiah 52, Psalms 22,

He knew he would be on public display, clothing taken from him, they would gamble for them: Psalms 22:18,19

Jesus knew he was being betrayed & even said go quickly, John 13:27,

Jesus knew the followers would scatter, anyone who loves those who depend on them in anyway never wishes to leave them, especially unprepared, afraid, in danger, alone, being pursued, John 17, John 10:11,12, Luke 12:4, Matthew 24:9,

Those are only some of the details. Extreme stress none of us have faced to that level. Hebrews 4:15,

Hopefully these are helpful to your discussion/ debate / controversy. 2Timothy 3:16,

John 3 Predestination

In the discourse to Nicodemus; the Godhead is once again refered to as "we" in v. 11. The famous John 3:16 has been used to raise an apparent contradiction. The "whosoever" has been considered the elect according to some. We should also keep in mind that we ALL were a part of the world before we were saved. Therefore; that shows our limit to the scope of time and space to the specifics of when we went from death to life. We should also bear in mind that there is a process involved where the Spirit convicts of sin; righteousness and judgment to come ( John 16:8). Repentance is also said to be something granted by God ( Acts 5:31; etal). Our own consciousness even in a darkened state can recognize consequences for sin and fear judgment

but until we see the light and undergo a heart change we won't want to be reproved (v. 20). (also see Ezekiel 11:19). After we are saved; there must be good works and continuing sanctification as v. 21 alludes to. Therefore; there is transformation occurring before we understand and make a verbal confession; and it continues throughout our lives.

The last part of the passage from verse 22 on show Johns discoursse; once again highlighting election. Verse 27 states that a man cannot recieve anything unless it be "given him from heaven". This theme is repeated in v. 31 and 32 that with earthly uderstanding no man receiveth his testimony (v. 32). Verse 33 seems to show to some extent how a believer is sealed as is shown in Ephesians 1:13-14 (I could use further clarification of that). Nonetheless; v. 36 again shows that someone who believes "on the Son" has everlasting life; and the contrary for those who don't including God's wrath.

The end of this passage is given more detail in other scriptures; including John. We must not only believe; but do as He says; for those who love Him will keep His commandments ( John 14:15). This makes love for one another paramount ( John 13:34)

John 17, Jeremiah 30:18-21, John 6:44, John 15:16,19, Romans 8:28-30,

Numbers 16:5,

Matthew 20:16, Matthew 22:14,

John 6:70, John 13:18, Acts 1:2,

Hopefully these are helpful

James, brother in Faith of Jesus Christ our Savior

John 13:34,35, Matthew 22:39, we all are to love one another

James 1:27, 2Timothy 2:24, Catholic have hospitals for wounded, known for helping widows & orphans, yet we all should be humbly teachable

Matthew 25:31-46,

Romans 14:4, GOD will judge ultimately, Romans 14:12,

These scriptures alert me: Jeremiah 7:18, Jeremiah 44:17-30 not to worship Queen of heaven, not to give offering either,

Matthew 23:9, call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father which is in heaven. Matthew 23, please read whole chapter, it actually corrects several Christian churches & leadership titles.

John 14:6, Acts 4:10-12,

1Timothy 4:1-3, false to teach forbidding to marry, 1Corinthians 7:28, 1Corinthians 7:2-6, by leaving these out of teaching & allowing into ministry, only the supposed abstainer may have perpetrated the horrible stain in that part of the Church today.

Hopefully these are helpful in this discussion

Part 8.

Jesus says in John 15:1-2 "my Father is the husbandman." Vine dresser"

This emphasizes fruit barring is a work of the Holyspirirt, not of you.

Let's consider that for a moment, FRUIT IS NOT GIFTS AND IT'S NOT SERVING AND IT'S NOT BY COMMAND.

So, when we come across these scriptures John 13:34-35. Mattthew 7:20. 1 John 2:11. 1 John 4:20. these are the marks of a Christian and is the ONLY way they are identified! And if you cannot be Identified by this you have John 15:6 to deal with.

Your faithfulness, intelligence, commitment, being noble, teaching, serving is all good but you're not identified as a Christian by none of these and can be told I "NEVER" knew you! Matthew 7:22-23.

Let's be clear on the recipient of this love that validates our position.

We are to love everyone, but our validation is specifically towards the Brothern.

The passages in 1 John speaks expressly about HATING you Brother.

God is truth, God is light, and God is Love. We are to worship God in truth and in Spirit. When the truth is spoken it shines light on darkness, and those in darkness hates the light and they will hate you!

HUMILITY.

Another fruit with great virtue. Woks of the law couldn't bring this either. It brought pride!

Being connect to the genuine vine brings humility. Look at what the Lord tells the Pharisees in Matthew 21:33-44. Right away you see the contrast of the two vines. Israel was to be a vine, but they became a degenerate vine. Jeremiah 2:9.

Now, place your attention on vs 43. Therefore, say I unto you, the kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (The Church) Peter calls the Church a Holy nation in 1 Peter 2:9.

Humility cast out pride doesn't it. We tend to want to place our spirituality on things we do, putting ourselves on display and pointing people towards us instead of Christ.

more to come.

Its Christ faith were saved by not ours!

See part 9.

Part 5.

The power of the Holyspirit displayed in Peter "After" conversion!

If we revisit Luke 22:32 "WHEN THOU ART CONVERTED, strengthen thy brethren" Wow! by now you would have thought he was already converted by just going through the motion of just following Jesus. No! An outward expression means nothing unless there's an inward cleansing. You see an example of this in Matthew 23:26 when the Lord rebuked the Pharisees.

But let's look at the difference in Peter after his conversion. We know by the Gospels Peter and the Desciples denied the Lord, fearing death. In John 21:18-19 the Lord tells Peter by which death he should glorify God, then he tells Peter "Follow me" This reminds us of John 13:36-37.

After Peters conversion and when he was strengthened by the Holyspirit Peter preached boldly whilst knowing his fate.

2 Peter 1:14. Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.

This ought to be humbling! All you do should be to the Glory of God. When we're born again everything you have or do is supplied by the Holyspirit, Not of yourselves. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Romans 8:7-9

If you don't Love your brother it is because you can't! And you can't because God is not in you!!

More on the command to Love in part 6.

Hi.

Humility is the opposite of pride.

God says He resists the proud, but He is always on the side of the humble. "The fear of the Lord is to hate evil; pride and arrogance and the evil way and the perverse mouth I hate" Proverbs 8:13.

John tells us that "the pride of life-is not of the Father but is of the world" ( 1 John 2:16). Where does the pride of life come from? If there is anything that comes from the devil, that is it.

Even our salvation should spoken of with humility, It is something about which to glorify God. It should humble you being you had no part in it.

Paul writes, "Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus" Philippians 2:5.

What kind of mind did He have? Lowliness of mind. He said, "Take my yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle meek] and lowly in heart. Matthew 11:29.

Pride is destroying the testimony of many Christians and has made them ineffective for God. They go in for show and draw people after themselves but they are building nothing more than wood hay and stubble.

Jesus tought a lesson in Humility in John 13:8-15. ( Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.

If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.

For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.)

Matthew 23:11-12. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.

And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another. Galatians 5:25-26.

God bless.

Part 4.

There is an interesting contrast when you look at the Greek words for "love" used in John 21:15-17. When Jesus asked Peter, "Do you love me?" in John 21:15-16, He used the Greek word "agape," this Love us immeasurable, it means to be totally given in to! Only the Holyspirit can produce this.

Both times, Peter responded with "Yes, Lord; you know that I love you," using the Greek word phileo, which refers more to a brotherly/friendship type of love.

The third time Jesus asks, "Do you love me?" in John 21:17, He uses the word phileo! The Lord reduced the measure of love to peters and our capability.

Notice Peters reaction "Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, "phileo" thou me?"

The Lord knew Peter couldn't Agape him because the Holyspirit wasn't given to them yet.

I believe he was tasking Peter pointing him back to what he thought he could do on his own strength in Matthew 26:31-35.

It do well to note all the disciples thought they would be willing to die with Christ.

The Lord forewarned Peter in

Luke 22:31-32. And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:

But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

In the John account we see two interesting things right before the bold statement from Peter and the disciples,

First

John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. Later they showed this was a command they couldn't do on their own.

Second.

The commandment wasn't given until after Judas departed.

John 13:26-30.

All these scriptures suggests all our service we do don't even begin until after the New birth through baptism of the Holyspirit.

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Philippians 2:13.

See Part 5.

God bless.

Part 1.

Here by we know.

A Child of God can and should examine themselves.

I gave a recent post on the old man being crucified with Christ and given life being quickened by the Spirit. In other words, being baptized into Christ death and resurrection. Romans 6:3-4. Romans 8:8-13,

Paul gives gave these verses as a rebuttal to anyone having the old nature having dominion over them.

Here are some highly ignored verses and is whereby we "know! whether God spirit is in us or not. And is what should be a great concern!

A new commandment I give unto you, that ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. John 13:34-35.

He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.

He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes. 1 John 2:9-11.

And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. We love him, because he first loved us.

If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also. 1 John 4:16-21.

Now "if" we have been baptized in Christ, we have the love of God in us to love one another.

This is virtue by being in him and him in you.

see part 2.

Hi Gigi.

Thanks for the reply, however it is far from what I meant when I posted, I never mentioned anything about the love of God, I'm sorry but you missed this one by a mile! Nowhere close to the context.

Here's the verses I have given. John 13:34-35. and 1 John 2:1-11. 1 John 4:20-21. and yes these topics has shut down debates whether it's about the trinity, eternal security, baptism, etc. because I've posed these during several debates and no response afterwards.

Please read and go over the response I gave to Bro Dan that you're replying to again.

It's getting late, I will cover this tomorrow.

God night and God bless.

Hi Bro Dan.

Sorry for a delayed response, I've been working and replying all day.

You've given me Mathew 22:40. That's not the verses I gave you and the Mathew verse you gave is out of context.

Here is the verses I gave. John 13:34-35. 1 John 2:1-11. and 1 John 4:21. It's getting late so let's take this up tomorrow.

Thanks and God bless.

Alex,

John 13:34-35, Romans 12:10, 1Timothy 5:1-2,

I felt led to address the phrase you used when addressing GiGi. It was a phrase use by Jesus when addressing the Sadducees, who appearing to twist the story from Tobit, because it clearly says "before they had lien with her". Tobit 3:8, Jesus went on to rebuke & say Mark 12:24,27 Also in Matthew 22:29,

James 1:16-27, Galatians 5:15-26,

Let's us try to be kinder, not bitey

Continue from previous. I ran out of space.

1 John 2:11

But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

I find it Amazing that out of the 2000 Characters allowed on these posts, If baptism is mentioned once it draws attention.

If you mention the command to love your brother "And that's whether he holds the same views of baptism or not " Love shuts the thread down!

Most will admit you can be baptized and not be saved, as well as every alter call in the local Church means someone got saved. But they passionately hold to the view you must be baptized by water to be saved!

As Texsis said the scripture doesn't say that. Nowhere!

I would love to see this intense debate on

John 13:34-35.

John 15.

And especially 1 John 2:1-11. Where it speaks of what's contuary to loving your brother which is hating your brother! and sadly over a view!

I'm not here to judge but it seems the fruit that confirms a live branch seems to be lacking from some!

Is this because the foundation you're they're standing on is built by your own works?

This Post was never about water baptism, It was about fruit barring, the old nature crucified, and the baptism of the Holyspirit which sanctifies a believer Positionally and practically and puts us in the body of Christ with other believers.

This is why I felt Texsis asked a good question that was fitting to the post. Because only the baptism of the Holyspirit brings new life and the beginning of a better covenant.

God bless.

Brother Dan.

Here is what is highly ignored and is where by we "know! whether God spirit is in us or not. And is what should be a greater concern!

A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. John 13:34-35.

Here's the sum of it all.

If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

Let me show you what a dear Brother on this site shared,

Take a close look at verse 21! " He who love his God love his brother also!"

Do you notice that doesn't say He who love God "should love his brother also? It says He who love God love his brother ALSO!

This is confirmation that he is in you and you in him! This is a fruit produced by the Holyspirit! And something we have no control of.

And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.

He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.

He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh is in darkness.. 1 Jn 2:

Matthew 7, Matthew 25:31-46, Philippians 2, Romans 14:12, 2Peter 2, 2Timothy 2, whole chapters relevant

Also note 2Timothy 2:19, sealed, but commanded depart from iniquity

Hebrews 3:6-19,

John 13:34, Romans 12:10,

Hopefully these are helpful

2Samuel 22,

Acts 13:22,

David obeyed his father 1Samuel 16:11, 1Samuel 17:15,17,18,

David protected the sheep, & defended Israel, risking his life 1Samuel 17:34-37, 1Samuel 17:45-52,

David served even though he was anointted king , 1Samuel 16:1,13,21,23, John 13:3-15,

Jesus being the perfect example.



This Psalm says 2Samuel 22:1, is when GOD delivered David from death by king Saul's doing. If we go into scripture of that time. King saul had promised David his daughter in marriage at, 1Samuel 17:25, please read 1Samuel 17, through- 2Samuel 1, to get understanding of what David went through from Saul, he had one wife at the time he was finally given one by Saul that Saul later gave to another man. Abigal was the widow of Nabal.

Looking at the lineage Abraham & Israel possibly set the example of multiple wives, which was trouble to them, in Genesis, yes Isaac appears to have one wife. It didn't go well with David's household. These are examples also to cultures that believe in multiple wives.

Adultery is sin against someone else's spouse. If one or both are married to someone else. Etc.

I believe the scripture is pointing out David's innocent claims about being upright in his own mind because he didn't take revenge, jump the timing of his kingship, nor kill Saul when he had the chance. Please read, 1Samuel 24,

Hopefully these are all helpful

Hello,

I know Christians tonight who will commit fornication. I know Christians who will be out partying tonight, getting drunk, possibly doing drugs. Some will lie, some may steal, some may assault others. They do this because they hear the watered down gospel and are told that they're already saved, that they're already in the book of life, so their actions are irrelevant, they assume.

Every Sunday when they go to church they then hear the same verses you shared which reassures them that they're totally fine following the pleasures of the world and can enjoy all the benefits of sin they wish, like an all you can eat buffet. But is that why Jesus died on the cross- so His followers can use that as a free hall pass to commit unlimited sin and evil? The Bible already says the answer is no.

So, everyone giving only part of the story of salvation and omitting the importance of obedience is doing a grave disservice. People will go to hell over this and people should actually fear God like it says in Matthew 10:28. But people are afraid of offending someone, that they withhold the truth. Did Jesus withhold the truth so no one was offended? Did Paul?

But what about offending God and offending Jesus? Those who don't obey and who sin is like slapping Jesus in the face.

I'm offended that people are withholding Bible verses from those who need to hear them the most. I am offended at false teachings.

The fact is Jesus gave lots of commandments. Do we truly love Jesus enough to follow them?

John 13:34

John 15:12

John 15:10

John 14:15

Deuteronomy 11:22

1 John 2:15 "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him."

The above verse should scare the daylights out of people who are currently loving and following the world. It should scare them to death and be the hugest wake up call. The end is near and time is short to get right with God. It won't happen automatically.

God bless.

Dear God, We ask You for divine order in the lives of Mrs. B's kids lives. And mine as well. We pray first and foremost for their salvation and Your will for their lives. You have plans for them and we ask that anything and anyone that hinders them would be removed. We ask You Father to order their steps. Please don't let them be alone. It's not good for a man (or woman) to be alone. Bring them spouses who will love You Father. So they can lead lives that glorify You. We pray it in Jesus name.

Help us & our children to love You

Romans 8:28

And put food in us so our steps can be ordered by You. psalms 37:23

In Jesus name.

John 13:13-14