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Luke 12:5
James 2:14
Some emphasize some verses over others which frames their beliefs, but all verses in context need to be taken into consideration. Some tend to emphasize grace and deemphasize works, but it's both just as it says in James 2.
One of the devil's biggest lies is deceiving believers into thinking they don't need to actively follow Jesus and don't need to do anything. If that was true, I don't think Jesus would have warned his followers (Christians) so much through his parables. The Bible talks about keeping strong in the faith, armor of God on, striving for the fruit of the spirit, running the race to the end to get the 'prize'. We can have assurance of faith if we're genuinely following Christ (a Christian), but no one receives salvation until we are judged after this life. If people think they've earned a get out of hell free card and can just sit back and do nothing or follow the world and commit unlimited unrepentant sin and still get to heaven that would be a devastatingly false assumption. God bless. Matthew 7:21
To do so, several things have to be overlooked or rejected: to whom was God speaking in the OT & to whom was Jesus speaking prior to His crucifixion? Only to Israel, none else. Gentiles weren't even in the picture pertaining to the Law & never have been. What was the reason for giving the Law? God's code of conduct (spiritual, moral & social) for His people, His Mark of separation from the heathen - Leviticus 26:46, (as also with circumcision: Genesis 17:10), & to demonstrate to Israel a godly standard that as sinners they could never fully obey ( Galatians 3:21-26).
But then we get verses such as Matthew 5:17-19 which are often used to support the eternal nature & applicability of the Law to all people. To those under the Law, indeed, the Law is current & will be used against them. To those who have escaped the curse of the Law & have found new life in Christ, have learned that Christ has indeed fulfilled all the Law, forever abrogating it & thru His Death ushered in a new & better Covenant ( Hebrews 8:6-13).
What then do we do with Scriptures (e.g. 1 John 5:2,3) that say we must obey God's commandments? Are John & others pointing the believer back to the letter of the Law that kills or rather to the Spirit Who gives life ( 2 Corinthians 3:6)? It is the Spirit's Law in our hearts that frees us from the Law of sin & death ( Romans 8:2). To give consent to both, that which is opposed to each other, weakens (even negates) the power of the New Covenant through Christ's Blood & the keeping of the Sabbath ever stands as a centrepiece to cause both error & division.
You said Jesus put an end to (destroy) living by the law, but Jesus anticipated someone thinking this so he said Matthew 5:17-18 that he didn't come to destroy the law.
He also said to obey His commandments: John 14:15. So, one can conclude that if you don't obey His commandments then you don't love Jesus. If you don't love or follow Jesus, that person probably isn't a Christian (a Christ follower by definition).
For instance, if one thinks it's ok to go out and kill someone, Jesus says no, you can't do that. Romans 6:1-2, Hebrews 10:26.
God bless...
Jesus respected his Father and his commandments and Jesus did not cancel any of the 10 commandments. Please read and try to understand the following scriptures spoken directly by Jesus Christ while he was on this earth.
John 14:15
"If ye love me, keep my commandments."
John 14:21
"He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."
John 15:10
"If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love."
Matthew 5:17
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
Matthew 5:18
"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."
Paul and the other disciples honored and followed the 10 commandments including the 4th commandment. See apostle John's scripture below:
1 John 2:3
"And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments."
1 John 5:2
"By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments."
1 John 5:3
"For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous."
2 John 1:6
"And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it."
Please read the scriptures and pray for understanding.
God bless
Man cannot add or subtract any of the 10 commandments.
This world is evil, and there are many false religions teaching others to ignore or minimize the commandments of God.
For those out there that believe they can ignore the 4th commandment, what don't you believe in the verse's below that came straight from Christ's mouth:
John 14:21
"He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."
Matthew 5:17
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."
Matthew 5:18
"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."
Most Christians are very aware of the above stated verses....but they minimize them, because reverend so and so said this, or that, and I hear all kinds of excuse's that we can ignore this commandment or that commandment, including because Apostle Paul said this or that. Man can read the bible and twist words to mean anything that might suit their agenda.
We need to believe what Jesus said in the bible, he is speaking the words of "His Father".
John 12:49
"For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak."
John 12:50
"And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak."
Living life today, while respecting God's commandment's my be an inconvenience for all of us - at times.....but we need to strive to follow Christ, just as Christ followed his Fathers Laws. Are we any better than Christ?
Happy Sabbath Day!
God Bless
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
(It is at the time of Christ's return that Christians are taken to heaven to be where Christ is. If Christians were already with Christ prior to that, there would be no need for Christ to receive them to himself.)
1 Corinthians 15:22,23
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
(It is at the time of Christ's return that Christians are made alive. If Christians were already alive prior to that, there would be no need for them to be made alive.)
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
(It is at the time of Christ's return that Christians are caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. If Christians were already with Christ, there would be no need for them to be caught up to meet the Lord in the air.)
2 John Chapter 1 Verse 6 starts out by saying, And this is love, that we walk after (or according) to His commandments.
Remember in 1 John Chapter 5, in the first 3 verses, he described what love does. Love keeps the commandments of God because God is love. He gives us the love for Him, and for His commandments.
Even Jesus said in John 13:34-35, a new commandment I give unto you, that you love one another. Actually, loving one another is the old commandment, but He's giving it in a new way.
Love one another. Here's the new way: As I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men shall know that you are my disciples if you have love one to another. That's to Christians; if you have love one to another.
The non-believer will know that we belong to Christ because Christ's love is flowing within the body of Christ from one believer to another.
He says that's the evidence, the proof. And love will keep the commandments. That is in John 14:15, where Jesus said if you love me, you will keep my commandments.
That's why His commandments are not grievous, because if you love Him, you'll want to please Him. You'll want to do that which is good for you and your walk with God. This is the commandment, that, as you have heard from the beginning, in order that you should walk in it.
Also you do not believe, or understand, the words of Christ like John 10:30?
You know God says listen to His Son right? Matthew 17:5. Even further like the Angel of the LORD in the OT. Exodus 23:20-22.
Also to glorify the Son is to glorify the Father. As they are ONE. John 14:13-14. The only way to eternal life is through the Son of God. John 14:6. 1 John 5:11-13.
God is ONE. I pray the Lord leads you to leave your own beliefs behind and trust Him and His Word.
You seem to believe in the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Though you seem to doubt who the Lord is just like the Pharisees did. Bringing Him down to "just a man". Matthew 5:20.
God Bless.
Obviously you took my post incorrectly. I'll try using Scriptures again.
I never said Christ and the Father was not a relationship. You brought this up. I never said Christ is the Father or the Father is Christ as it seems you took it. I know it's a Father Son relationship. Again John 10:30, John 14:11, John 17:21. Revelation 3:21. For a couple.
Some say the Father being in Christ means He left Heaven. God spoke from Heaven several times proving that false. Matthew 3:17, Matthew 17:5, John 12:28.
Here are a couple stating the Spirit of Truth or Holy Ghost as He/Him: John 14:17, John 14:26. Putting the three in ONE as in 1 John 5:7.
As I've been trying to answer your questions though you seemed to have veered from mine. No one knows the depths and ways of God. He can do anything He wants. Isaiah 40:28, Isaiah 55:8-9. Just like giving all His power and authority to His Son so we honor Him just as we honor the Father. Matthew 28:18, John 5:22-23. Not knowing your beliefs on this but no one can say Christ did not exist before He was born here. Christ Himself stated this and there are other Scriptures that back this up also. John 17:4-5. All I do is use the Scriptures. I have no private interpretation as that is not what the Scriptures are for. 2 Peter 1:20.
Nothing is falling apart for me. I've given you many Scriptural verses as I have not seen one from you. Also I really don't even know your motive for making the first post the other night. The reason I made the reply is because you said something about a "man made trinity doctrine". Which I showed you is not man made it's Biblical.
Still not getting into how many titles the Father and Son share. Not knowing if it would make any difference to you.
I'm not here to argue and don't take my post that way please. You may have your own view.
Again as I hope I've answered your questions. I'll just leave the one again.
Do you believe the Scriptures I've posted?
Thank you. God Bless.
John 12:49
"For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak."
John 14:10
"Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works."
God bless
God Bless
As I really don't know of many groups though I have seen it here by some numerous times.
The first that come to mind that discredit the divinity of Christ are I believe, Jehovah's Witnesses, Muslims, and non converted Jewish people of coarse. And to note one thing at the end of a comment in that "Christ did not exist before His birth and neither did you or I". Well no one except Jesus Christ was born of a virgin conceived of the Holy Ghost.
Some have tried to say that "stating Jesus Christ is more than a man is idolatry" Which is very sad to me. As in Scriptures like 1 John 2:23 or John 14:6. Even in my own personal experience. I prayed to God for most of my life. Though when I was led to Jesus Christ and knew He was from God reading His teachings. After giving myself to Him my entire life changed from the inside out. Praise the Lord!
I agree, the 1st, and 2nd commandments - are the greatest of all. Amen.
As Christians we also can't ignore the other eight.
John 14:21
"He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."
I think only a minority of Christians believe once saved, always saved, because the Bible doesn't support that idea. Most people would agree that Hitler probably won't be in heaven, despite going to church when young and possibly identifying as a Christian at one point. Judas was a Christian (a literal Christ follower) and betrayed Him in a huge way, and it's my personal belief that he is not saved. There's countless examples of Christians who unfortunately have turned their back on Jesus and started following the ways of the world or the devil himself. Jesus warned His followers to obey and fear God and avoid sin and obey. People today are making claims that you don't have to do anything at all. I believe God is a fair judge.
This doesn't mean we're saved by effort, it's grace. But Jesus clearly said if you love Him then obey. Christianity is an action requiring effort. Those who are genuine Christians following Christ will be saved, those who aren't are in danger of not being saved. I believe Bible backs this up very well. Plus, one can have assurance of salvation, but no one is actually saved until judgment day. So, people that claim they're saved, and can enjoy sin and doing evil 24/7 are mistaken. That idea only comes from satan. They will call out Lord, Lord and Jesus will not know him, just as the Bible says. Jesus said most people won't go to heaven- narrow is the way. Some accuse others of being legalistic, but they'd probably accuse Jesus of that too: John 14:15.
Just a few relevant verses...
Hebrews 10:26
James 2:14-26 "...faith, if it hath not works, is dead..."
James 2:19 "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."
1 Peter 1:13 "...hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;"
Romans 11
John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments."
Matthew 12:31-32.
Romans 14:12
1 Peter 1:5 - "...salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."
Most of the warnings Jesus gave was to His Christian followers, about being careful, being on watch, on guard, parables warn of most people going to hell and being prepared, Peter talked about running the race well to the finish to get the 'prize', etc. So, was all that useless talk? If everyone is automatically saved regardless of their actions does that mean all the parables and talk was irrelevant? Or, is it more likely Jesus was right, that your actions do matter, and that maybe some men need to adjust their expectations and begin to fear God like it says so many times: Matthew 10:28.
Most people will go to hell, and Jesus predicted that many will be surprised they're not going in, and cry out 'Lord, Lord'... You can't earn heaven, people are saved by grace, but this assumes you're a Christian- which is a verb that means following Christ and not sinning and being a light to the world through good deeds, because that's what Christians should do. It doesn't mean its impossible to sin, but Christians must avoid sin at all costs! Matthew 5:30 I think many who call themselves Christians will be shocked on judgment day and have deep regret for their actions and not taking Christianity seriously. God bless...
1John.2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
2 Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Jesus called His Father His God. No one can deny the divinity of Jesus, the demons in scripture even knew who he was "the Son of the Most High". The Son was with the Father before the world because through the Son all was created. There is not any scripture that says how the Son began only He was the beginning of creation. The word Godhead is in the Bible 3 times "theots" meaning deity, divinity, "Theion" meaning Devine Being, both can be said of God and the Son of God without saying they are both God.
God bless us, Ron
>"So a doer of the word in my understanding doesn't mean that I take my bible and go out and do it"
If the good Samaritan followed this advice he would not have stopped to help the injured man. Luke 10:25-37 Maybe he would have walked on by because he already knew who he was in his own mind, and didn't want to risk being 'legalistic' or obedient, as if that's a bad thing. Reminds me of a Pharisee- who felt self-righteous but didn't have good deeds as fruit that show their faith in action.
Matt 25:40 comes to mind: "...as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."
The push to not be obedient or do good works seems contradictory to this verse: James 1:22 and so many others throughout the Bible - would God tell us we don't need to obey Him and to not do what He says, or would someone else be behind this? Who is the most likely source that tells us that being good is bad and doing bad is good?
Matthew 25 and basically most of Jesus' parables were about the same thing: being prepared, because a day will come and we will be separated and judged and accountable for our actions. The foolish virgins were unprepared and did nothing. The bag of gold parable Jesus called the one who did nothing but hid the gold "wicked and slothful." Jesus said about the ones who did nothing (no works) to help others sent them to hell: Matt 25:44-46
Jesus also said about obedience: John 14:15.
To anyone claiming good deeds and works is 'bad' notice that the Bible is full of instruction to do good deeds and works. One would have to ignore nearly the entire Bible in order to come to such a conclusion. If our actions didn't' matter then the Bible wouldn't have continually said it DOES matter and we will literally be judged for it. We are saved by grace, we don't earn heaven, but Christianity is a verb = action.
2 Corinthians 5:10, Revelation 20:12, Gal 5:13, Matthew 10:42
It appears you're receiving mostly responses that de-emphasize obedience. I do not believe once saved always saved, because of Matthew 12:22-32 and so many other verses. I think if that was true Jesus would not have continually warned his followers (Christians) over and over through parables and stories about obedience and keeping His commandments and avoiding sin. It takes effort. It literally addresses this already in the Bible- saying that people used it as a license to sin and "abuse" grace: Jude 1:4, Hebrews 10:26, James 2:14-26, John 14:15, James 2:19. I fully believe all the verses others shared with you above, but unfortunately it appears most are sharing an imbalanced perspective. The Word speaks for itself and does not say once saved, always saved. Christians can and do turn from the faith, unfortunately, and sometimes a % go in the complete opposite direction and do horrific things, just like any other person can who does evil and follows the world or satan. I'm responding, because I think it's important that you not listen to men, but to the Word and pray and ask God for wisdom that you will know the truth. There are many false prophets and fake news being spread and we know who is behind that. God bless...
Naturally, I disagree with your interpretation of the scripture and the assumptions made.
I believe the argument of once saved always saved contradicts itself. Here's how:
1. Someone believes God gave them freewill.
2. Someone believes all Christians are already 'saved' and that status never changes.
3. Then they are asked about Luke 12:10 blasphemy of the holy ghost.
4. They then claim it doesn't apply to Christians, that Christians can't, that they don't even have the freewill to sin, despite many documented cases of Christians doing exactly that both in the Bible and in the world today. Isaiah 14:12-14 shows that even angels in heaven have freewill to sin and blaspheme.
Christians still need to face judgment day like everyone else. Only after can someone be actually saved. If we genuinely follow Christ we can be assured of salvation, but the Bible warns us plenty of times to obey, to run the race, to persevere, to abide in the doctrine of Christ 2 John 1:8-9, it paints a much different picture than that I get from others who claim its ok to sin, that you can't sin, that you can be in the world and do whatever you want with zero penalty, and don't even have to worry about turning your back on Christ or blaspheming, because you can't do that. That's the opposite message of what Jesus said. Hebrews 6:4, John 14:15, Matthew 5:13, MATTHEW 7:23.
If once saved always saved is true, does that mean Christians can commit mass murder and still go to heaven? violence? rape? blasphemy? Or that their freewill is restricted so it's impossible for that to happen? Judas betrayed Jesus, and many Christians leave the faith and reject Jesus, unfortunately. There's a forum on Reddit called ex-Christian if you don't believe it. So, are all ex-Christians who reject Jesus still saved then?
Which is more likely: that satan, the father of lies is deceiving Christians into obeying God more than necessary, or that committing unlimited sin is ok?
The verses you read refer to genuine Christians who are following (and obeying) Christ.
If you put those verses in context with all the other verses like John 14:15, then you realize obeying is pretty important. Christianity is about following Christ, not a get out of hell free card or an unlimited license to sin. It assumes someone is a genuine Christian who avoids sin and obeys God. Obedience doesn't mean there's no grace either. We're still saved by grace, but we're genuinely trying to avoid sin. Whereas someone deliberately sinning and claiming they're saved and can do whatever they want is in danger. Many will cry out, Lord, Lord, and Jesus will not know them, which includes faux Christians.
Luke 12:10 this verse alone debunks the once saved always saved belief, because it clearly says this sin will not be forgiven. Also, no one is 'saved' until they are judged after this life. Those who genuinely follow Jesus can have assurance in salvation, but the Word also says to fear God. Luke 12:4.
I have a feeling these verses won't change anyone's mind once you've made up your mind what you want to believe, but perhaps at least pray about it before suggesting to others that they're saved even if they commit horrific sins and live in the Word and turn their back on Jesus to follow the devil as some Christians sometimes do. Hitler grew up attending church and if you believe OSAS maybe some think Hitler and everyone will be in heaven too along with all other mass murderers. But I don't believe that, I believe satan is trying to convince people they don't need to obey God anymore. God bless.
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
1 John 2:3 | View whole chapter | See verse in context
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
Leviticus 22:31 | View whole chapter | See verse in context
Therefore shall ye keep my commandments, and do them: I am the LORD.
Leviticus 26:14 | View whole chapter | See verse in context
But if ye will not hearken unto me, and will not do all these commandments;
Ezra 9:10 | View whole chapter | See verse in context
And now, O our God, what shall we say after this? for we have forsaken thy commandments,
John 14:15 | View whole chapter | See verse in context
If ye love me, keep my commandments.
It will go faster for you if you'll learn to use the SEARCH BOX when you come into the website. Put the words you remember about the verse and hit the arrow.
This search engine is really fast. Yo might have to read through many pages. One nugget of wisdom is worth the effort.
Just to expand a little more to the truth S Spencer shared with you. As recently someone had a question similar to yours. The Love of God, Jesus Christ, is beyond what we can imagine. What I perceive as more important to ask is "do I love Jesus Christ"?
God is Holy and hates sin. To repent from the sins of this world, giving your life to Him, and live to do His Will is very important. I will just leave a couple Scriptures for you showing how important it is for us to love Him with all our heart, soul, and mind. Our love for Him shall not be forgotten.
Deuteronomy 7:9, Deuteronomy 10:12-13, Psalms 31:23, Psalms 97:10, Psalms 145:20, Proverbs 8:17, John 14:21,
James 1:12, James 2:5,
God Bless.
God IS Love, He's also Holy, He's also Just, He's also Truth.
None of these attributes fails him.
and they all play an equal role in our salvation.
God Loves us so he provided us a sacrificial Lamb. "Jesus"
And He's Just!!!
Tho he Loves us, that doesn't void hi justice, A Christian WONT continue in sinful "practices"
John 14:6 (KJV) Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
He's Holy and Truth, so he sent us his Spirit to create in us a NEW Heart. "The Holyspirit"
1 Corinthians 13:4-8 (KJV) Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
God is Love but He's also Holy, ang Judge righteously.
Hope that helps.
Maybe Matthew 5:10 might be what you are looking for, which says "Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."
This is just a guess on my part. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful!
Oops. I replied to Jesse. I'll reply to you(again) so you receive an e-mail. To add to what Jesse offered you. Maybe John 16:1-3.
God Bless.