Discuss John 16 Page 13

Revelation 21:4 - And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Psalms 34:18 - The LORD [is] nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.

John 16:22 - And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you.

Matthew 5:4 - Blessed [are] they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

John 14:27-29 - Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. (Read More...)

Isaiah 41:10 - Fear thou not; for I [am] with thee: be not dismayed; for I [am] thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness.

2 Timothy 4:7 - I have fought a good fight, I have finished [my] course, I have kept the faith:

Colossians 2:5 - For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.

Ecclesiastes 3:1-22 - To every [thing there is] a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: (Read More...)

Psalms 147:3 - He healeth the broken in heart, and bindeth up their wounds.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 - But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. (Read More...)

Philippians 1:3 - I thank my God upon every remembrance of you,

John 11:25 - Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Philippians 4:6-7 - Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. (Read More...)

They are a great comfort

HI Michael. Lets pick up from verse 10. Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? Verse 11. Verily, verily, I say unto thee, we speak what we do know, and testify that what we have seen; and you receive not our witness. Verse 12: If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? Did you notice in verse 10 Jesus states: " Art thou a master in Israel and knowest not these things? " ( Jesus miracles, his conduct, and his mission was consistent with the old testament scripture.)

John the baptist elaborates on it as well in the same chapter verses 31-33.

He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.

He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true. Now it's Jesus who speak what he has seen and heard, Those who receive through the power of the Holyspirit testify of this truth. John 16:12-13. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. John 4:23. Here Jesus is answering the woman of Samaria giving a lesson on its not where you worship its on how to worship, ""Through the power of the holyspirit"" John 16:14-15. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Maybe someone can elaborate on it further.

Barbara, the Spirit is gracing you with HIS wisdom and His Understanding. What the Spirit is revealing to you about the armies described in Revelation 19:14 is correct, we are those armies. The armies described in Revelation are much different than the armies we know which are made up of men in their natural state.

1 Corinthians 15:46 Howbeit that WAS NOT FIRST which is spiritual, but that which is NATURAL; and afterwards that which is SPIRITUAL.

1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown (at natural birth) a NATURAL body; it is raised (at Christ resurrection) a SPIRITUAL body (we are delivered into this body the moment we depart our natural body). There is a NATURAL body, and there is a SPIRITUAL body.

John 16:21 A woman (the church) when she is in travail hath sorrows (suffers in the flesh), because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she rememberth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world.

There are many, many symbols that describe the called out: the elect, the saints, the anointed ones, the church, the temple, the house of God, the trees, the books, the rivers, the streams, the mountains, the house of Israel, the house of Jacob, the chosen, the called, the faithful, the horses, the chariots and many more. When the Spirit causes you to understand the symbols it becomes easier for the Spirit to reveal His truths.

Isaiah 9:5 For every (natural) battle of the (natural) warrior is with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood; but this (spiritual battle) shall be with (spiritual) BURNING and FUEL of (spiritual) FIRE.

Isaiah 9:19 and the PEOPLE shall be the FUEL of the FIRE

Isaiah 4:3-6 (vs 4)When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion (another symbol of the called out) and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem (another symbol of the called out) from the midst thereof by the SPIRIT OF JUDGEMENT and by the SPIRIT OF BURNING.

This is what the armies (the ones gone before us) are doing.

Sandra,

"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth." Romans 10:4

Which law spells out forgiveness? Had I a choice to only break one of the ten in my lifetime, no matter which I choose, forgiveness isn't there. Righteousness by the law was fulfilled by only one person, the Lord Jesus. That righteousness is what is imputed to those who believe, therefore, those who believe are under no obligation to do, what only Jesus did. However, once the love of God is received it shows in the life of a believer, perhaps not always perfectly, but it grows in their earthly lifetime.

It is the pride of the flesh to think that before the law a person lacks nothing. Matthew 19:30

"Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith." Galatians 3:24

"To demonstrate our love for God and His Son, Jesus Christ, is to conduct our lives in harmony with the Ten Commandments." It is pride that attaches eternal life to the letter of the law. "For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ." 1John 1:17 The law is in the sphere of the work of the Holy Spirit, John 16:8, "And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment". Believers testify of Christ's, grace and truth. I have no doubt the Holy Spirit within a believer will not lead them to violate any of the ten commandments, because the righteousness of Christ exceeds the letter of the law.

Sandra, Are all your sins forgiven?

I agree with Adam that 1John 5:7 is truth and indisputable, in my view the Holy Ghost speaks to our conscience, that guilty feeling we get when we've done wrong, and as Christians he guides and convicts us to return back to the narrow road to the cross. In John 16 you'll notice that when Jesus talks of the Holy Ghost (Spirit of truth) he calls him, "he", and not it, because he is a separate being as in trinity (triune). In John 16:13 Jesus says that he will not speak of himself. The best description I've heard on the trinity was on one of Billy Graham's sermons, he described as in water, you have liquid, ice, and vapor, all three are different and separate forms but all are the same as in H2O. John chapters 14, 15, and 16 are good reads on the Comforter, (Holy Ghost)

I hope this helps

Ephesians Chapter 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

John 14:26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

John 16:13 "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come." 14 "He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you."

Does he and himself in this verse speaks of a force/Influence or a divine person?

John 16:13. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of ""HIMSELF;""but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Hello Star,

As I really can't speak for anyone but myself but I don't think anyone here believes in God being more than One. As you are not the only person but many people have a problem with the Father, Son(Word), and Holy Ghost. Being three but of One. Then saying you agree with verse ( 1 John 5:7 but not three persons is very confusing.

Maybe just one question I would start with is John 16:13. How could the Spirit of Truth(Holy Ghost) "not speak of Himself but whatsoever He shall hear" if it were the same "person". That verse would be an oxymoron. Along with many others of Jesus Christ(The Word) praying to God the Father along with God the Father speaking from Heaven down unto Jesus Christ numerous times.

So you saying "Definitely not and never" but agree with verse ( 1 John 5:7 could you please explain your view? Thank you.

I can heartily agree with your first paragraph that the Triune God is very Truth. But then you say that the Holy Spirit is not a person. And it's at this point that we have to dwell.

Before I give you some Scriptures, let me ask, "what if God chose to embody His "Truth" (the Holy Spirit), with flesh, as He did to His "Word"? Would that alter your belief that the Spirit is more than the Truth (a Word) of God, but very God Himself by His Spirit?

Some Scriptures for you to consider that the Holy Spirit is not only the 'Truth of God' but sent from God as God: 1 Corinthians 2:10-11 (He is Intelligent, He searches, He knows, He has a Will); Ephesians 4:30 (He has feelings - can be grieved & He seals the believer); John 14:26 (He teaches; notice the pronoun); John 16:13, Romans 8:14; Acts 8:29 (He guides, leads, speaks, hears, glorifies God); Acts 13:4 (He commissions or despatches); Romans 8:26,27 (He intercedes); Matthew 12:31 (He can be blasphemed); Acts 5:3 (He can be lied to); Acts 7:51 (He can be resisted); Hebrews 10:29 (He can be outraged). And these are just a few to consider.

Then if we leave off the word 'Spirit' & replace it with 'Truth' in those Scriptures (as you asked me to try out), in some cases, it could work as the Spirit is Truth, as God & the Son are Truth. But in other cases, that just wouldn't work (e.g. how does the Truth (as a spoken Word) grieve, search, has a Will, feelings, hears, glorifies, commissions, intercedes, blasphemed against, etc.?). And then again, why did God not just use the word 'Truth' (as in 'the Truth shall set you free') but rather shows us that His Spirit (of Truth) was sent to accomplish these tasks? I can see if someone has difficulty with the Doctrine of the Trinity, then understanding the Spirit's part in the Godhead would be a problem.

Hello Carol,

As Chris explained Ghost and Spirit are the same thing. As in the KJV Bible for the word Ghost, used over 90 times, and the word Spirit, used over 280 times, it is the same Greek word. The word "pnuema" meaning a current or "breadth" of air or figuratively a "spirit".

Just so you know. God Bless.

Do you believe that man has been making this change? When did this happen, since both the Holy Ghost & Holy Spirit are mentioned throughout Scripture? Or, maybe you sense that the 'Spirit' is in wider use than 'Ghost'? The word "Ghost" means 'Spirit' as you know, so it should not be a problem when either Name is used. What does trouble me, is the wide use of 'Holy' & being associated with other things, e.g. Holy cow/smoke/mackerel/Moses, etc. I do get quite disturbed by this. Do you?

My brother Robert,

I am very confused on why you curse those who believe in God as triune or three in One. Yet you seem to believe that Jesus is "dual nature". As you state. All God and all Man. Which is the same thing. Dual is consisting of "two" parts. Again proven throughout the gospels that Jesus was not speaking to or praying to Himself. He was praying to His Father in Heaven who sent Him, was with Him, and in Him. As God is Spirit. They being One.

So it seems ok with you for two as you state "dual nature".

I will humbly ask you to please explain one verse my brother. Please help us understand your view.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

So the dual nature of Jesus which is God(Spirit) and flesh. The Word is what became flesh and we beheld His glory as of the only begotten of the Father. Plus the Holy Ghost equals three. Exactly as ( 1 John 5:7 states. All of One God.

May the Lord bring us together in peace. Amen.

"(So) your saying the early church didn't know who or what they worshipped even Paul."

No, I'm not saying that. The apostles, including Paul, certainly did know the true God, even as Jesus revealed Him to them. In very truth, "He that hath seen Me hath seen the Father" ( John 14:9), Jesus had not only declared to them who God was but that He, Jesus, was the human personification of God Himself.

So can we assume that the God on His Throne in Heaven physically looked just like Jesus? Not so, for God is Spirit & none on Earth has seen Him, bar His Son. But Jesus presented to His apostles & those around, all of the Mind, the Nature, the Will, the Plans, the Holiness, the Love & Justice of God. How could He do this? Because He said, "I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father." ( John 16:28)

We can't force this Scripture to mean that Jesus came into existence because of God's Plan for Redemption, because the Greek for "I came forth (from the Father)" is 'exelthon', which means 'to go or to come out of'. And when Jesus says, "and am come into the world" the Greek here is different, 'elelutha' or 'to come, to go'. So He came 'out of the Father' to be sent (or, go) into the world. And then He says, "I leave the world, and go to the Father". Now the word is 'poreuomai' which means, 'to go or to travel'. And this implies not only his leaving the world physically, but His entrance back into Heaven, from whence He came, was not into the singular unity of the Godhead, but as a Man Who would be worshipped beside the Father, yet never losing His divinity to Him. In other words, if Jesus just came to Earth as the Word of God to men (as was spoken by the prophets) & returned to Heaven, logic says that He would have returned back into the Unity of God - just as the Holy Spirit, who is only Spirit, comes to us & goes to Heaven in the same Divine Form.

Both Paul & the Church knew the Deity of Christ & preached it.

I'm not sure I understand your question, but perhaps these verses are what you're looking for.

Acts 13:52

John 16:7

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I think Rob, a dictionary wouldn't be very useful in this matter. So your answer is: "The Holy Spirit is of God". Well, that's correct but to expand on that a little, if I may amplify your thoughts. In great care, I would suggest that you also believe that the Holy Spirit is a Person, i.e. He comes from within the Godhead, sent into the World of sinners to convict & to indwell those who have been born again that they might lead new lives with a new Power within.

That He must be a Person, as shown in many examples: Intelligence ( 1 Corinthians 2:10,11); has feelings ( Ephesians 4:30); has a Will ( 1 Corinthians 12:11); has a Mind ( Romans 8:27); teaches ( John 14:26); guides ( Romans 8:14, John 16:13); commissions ( Acts 13:4); commands ( Acts 8:29); restrains ( Genesis 6:3, 2 Thessalonians 2:7); intercedes ( Romans 8:26); speaks ( John 15:26). Though He may be a spirit as from God, out of God's Being, He is the very Expression & Person of God Himself. I hope you agree to that, or am I putting words in your mind or mouth?

Then we come to God's Word. As seen with the Spirit, the Word of God is unseen, the very Articulation of God in creating, giving commands & direction whether to heavenly hosts, to His people on Earth or through His prophets & in other utterances that we're unaware of. Now there may be other aspects of God's Being that we're not told of, but of the Word & the Spirit, there's no dispute. The difficulty now for some remains with the 'Word'.

If then, God sends out His Spirit to accomplish His Purposes, why is it so hard to comprehend that He sends out His Word to do likewise? Or is that because the Spirit has no flesh, therefore it must hold true that God's Word can only be spirit without flesh? What if God chose to give His Spirit flesh maybe that would make it easier to understand the 'Word' easier.

Joan, I'm so sorry for your loss! I asked for prayers of comfort for you. Please have solace in the fact that you 2 will be together again soon! God bless you!

Yes, The other Comforter Jesus was talking about was the Holy Ghost, John chapters 14,to 16 talk of the other Comforter and Acts chapter 2 is a good explanation of when the apostles received the Holy Ghost (Spirit)

Matthew 28: through baptism and faith, because the Holy Ghost is Spirit he can be anywhere in the world at the same time.



John 14:26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

John 16:7 "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."

Acts 2:4 "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance"

Matthew 28:19

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"

Alex comments about this John 16 : 13 Buts its simply b/c that the H.G. has to be born in us thus he is our spritual Child,our new innerman that is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the Father thus he cannot speak of himself untill he is of age but everything the FATHER shows him he will make known unto us .Now the heir as long he is a Child differs nothin from a servant THO he be LORD OF ALL thats the H.G. which is the Child simply b/c he has to be born in US from the seed of the sower which is the living word of God. Thats y he cannot speak of himself he is only a child when we are bornagain . Thats y Jesus was saying whosoever receiveth one such child in my Name RECEIVETH ME . Impling Jesus is the Father of the H.G. simply b/c the H.G. is gonna be born in humanity via the seed of Christ which is the living word,he that soweth that good seed is the son of man Jesus ,and he propagates after the God kind thats y he said that which is born of the spirit is spirit which is the H.G. spirit as God is spirit .But thats y the H.G cannot speak of himself he is a baby Christ . Thats y Paul said as we have borne the image of the earthy we must also bear the image of the heavenly which is a baby Christ the H.G. THE kINGDOM OF GOD, Remember unless ya receive the kingdom as a lil Child etc impling a heavenly birth via that good seed . The God head is just like abraham issac and jacob Father son and granson which is gonna initaites the Israel of God which answers to the great Promise of multiplcation of Christ seed AS THE STARS OF HEAVEN . Ya gotta realize there wd have neva been a natural Israel without this abraham issac and jacob scenario father son and granson that became as the sands of the seas The earthy PROMISE which was a metaphor for the heavenly PROMISE, The Israel of GOD which are spirits the H.G plural. A much greater ISRAEL then abrahams ISRAEL. The Abrahamic Promise was Good but the Christ Promise is Eternal life a KINGDOM in our hearts .

You know Diane, the one thing that I first consider when I hear of someone who has fallen into sin or even overwhelmed by it, is what has happened now, to change that situation. I hear your cry, but I also see that God has certainly NOT given up on you. Why is that? Because you demonstrate the very work of God the Spirit taking place within you. A person who doesn't or refuses to say what you have just now shared, is a person who cares less about the things of God & her soul, rather to feed the sensual appetite even more, trying to satisfy herself with anything that gives pleasure or security.

Your pleas for help & guidance in this matter is indicative of God speaking to you by His Spirit. As the Bible says in John 16:8, "And when he (the Spirit) is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgement". That is the Holy Spirit Who does more than being the Comforter, Guide & Minister to our spirits; He also convicts whenever sin enters in, He speaks to us of right (holy) living, & He warns of God's Judgement. Many reject God & His Gospel & are headed for certain fiery judgement, even when they feel the tug upon their hearts. But you have not only sensed that 'tug' in your spirit, but now wanting to set things right - and this is the first step to healing & restoration.

We have a saying: "there is no sin that His Blood cannot cover". Jesus' Blood shed for you, was applied when you first came to Him & still avails for you even now. Jesus said in John 6:37, "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." This is His Promise that the salvation He gave you, not only made you a child of God, but also promises that your Father, Who longs for His prodigal daughter to return, is not willing to reject you for anything.

Come to Him just as you are, read the Scriptures (maybe John's Gospel), praying & seeking forgiveness - let His Spirit speak to you through them - He WILL assure your heart.

When ministering to the little ones, to say that God lives in our hearts can be a little more understandable than to relate it theologically: that it is His Spirit that comes to reside in the Christian. God's Throne is in Heaven with His resurrected Son at His right Hand: that is seen Scripture. But God's Spirit (that indivisible part of the Godhead), is sent out into the world for a variety of purposes: John 16:7,8; John 14:16-18 & others.

Both Paul ( Romans 8:9) & Peter ( 1 Peter 1:11), speak of Christ's Spirit. Again, the Deity is fully seen as the selfsame Spirit that is in the World & in believers, and He is the Spirit of God & His Christ. So the Deity cannot reside in anything evil, rather God's Spirit is present to bring God's Light & Truth to those whose hearts are prepared to hunger for it & receive it.

I encourage you to stand in the word of God. When you stand always speak and correct them with love. Remember if God is for us then who can be against us.

It is written also Jesus said

John 16:33

These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

We will experience hardship, trials and persecution, but in those situation have faith and hope because Jesus has overcome it and we will too. When you feel discourage always look up remember Jesus on the Cross his love for us for everyone.

Also your labor in the Lord is not in vain.

1 Corinthian 15:58

58Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

As long as you do that to please God and to share the truth of the gospel God is for you. Be the light and the salt to them. Cause in the Lord there is no darkness. You are working for the Lord not for men for sure your reward is great which is imperishable. There's a crown that's waiting for us we will receive that according to the work that we've done in the kingdom of God.

Be faithful in the Lord He is with you....

I'm in my 60's too. Born again in 1985.

My first Bible was a Living Bible which was so severely marked up after a year, I got a KJV on the 2nd Bible. I'm on my 8th Bible now (KJV).

Best advise: google has Bible Commentaries you can read. Type in your scripture like this:

" John 16:8 Commentary"

Several commentaries will pop up. Matthew Henry is reliable. Usually the first 5 are most reliable.

I love studying. In some places you'll see verses repeated a couple of chapter forward; like in Genesis.

If you'll get a KJV with center of each page, reference columns, it's a huge help in studying. The tiny abc's imbedded in the scripture correspond to the center column: that will add other books and scriptures that give more light to what you are reading.

I learn faster by reading 2-3 books at a time. It flows better. Make notes in pencil to go backward to a verse; or forward.

When your Bible is all marked up, it's time to get a new one so the Lord can show you even more light and revelation on scriptures. You'll see how much you are growing and learning.

Always ask the Holy Spirit to help you see the truth and the mysteries.

If you see someone struggling to put it all together as we did, once: you are approved to help them. "Study to show yourself approved (by the Lord), a workman that need not be ashamed."

We need you in here to help those who are new to this :)

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So, as you believe, that in Jesus is found the Godhead (Father, Son & Holy Spirit), which in a sense is true, since the Godhead is just that - without one the others aren't complete in Unity. But this now raises two other problems:

a. Mark 14:36: "And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt." If Jesus is now God on Earth without a God in Heaven, then to Whom is Jesus crying out to? And for what reason? Surely, it can't be a cry to Himself as God the Father, since that becomes nonsense & also that Heaven is now devoid of the Divine.

b. 1 Peter 3:22; Hebrews 1:3, 8:1, 12:2; Romans 8:34, etc. All these Scriptures show us that Jesus is now seated at the Father's right Hand & Jesus Himself said, "I go to the Father" ( John 16:16). How should I understand such declarations if the Father only exists now in the Person of Jesus? Is Jesus going to His Father that is already Himself? Such interpretations are mind-boggling that even go past the mystery of the Trinity. I'm sorry, but what you expect me to believe goes into the realm of extra-biblical claims & would need some careful explanation. May the Lord lead us into His Truth.

To clarify, are you suggesting that there is no God in Heaven except Jesus, Who is God? Or, maybe that Jesus is Our God, so the God in Heaven is no longer our God? It would be difficult to prove that only Jesus (as God) is presently in Heaven.

To do so, then a lot of other Scriptures would have to be negated, when Jesus says: John 16:16.17 "I go to the Father"; John 20:17 "I ascend to my Father...and to My God"; Hebrews 8:1, 10:12, Mark 16:19, Romans 8:34, 1 Peter 3:22 "at the right Hand of God" & many more.

I earnestly hope that I have misunderstood your comments as the abundance of Scripture is given for us to know that there is still a God in Heaven & His Word made flesh has now ascended victorious & glorious, seated at His Father's right Hand, receiving the worship as One inclusive in the eternal Godhead.

You said: "The mystery of the Trinity, then, is not in God dividing himself into 2 or 3 separate parts. The mystery is in the way Jesus speaks to us." With the Scriptures before us, and they don't lie, the "mystery of the Trinity" in part, is that the Eternal God has in His Love, chosen to give of Himself as the only Sacrifice that would satisfy His demands of justice & redemption. An unblemished animal was a temporal covering for sin which could never remove the guilt & consequences of sin. God had to provide His Own Lamb, which He did ( Isaiah 53:7, John 1:29), which no animal or man could fulfil. God the Father did not leave Heaven to accomplish this task but He sent forth His Word clothed in flesh to do so ( John 1:1-14) & called this Word, His beloved Son. God also sent forth His Spirit to empower His Son for service & power to all who repent & call upon Him that they too may be one as They are One ( John 17:21-26).

God cannot be divided into three parts, else we might conclude, three gods. He has revealed Himself in His Fullness, in tri-unity, without which He could not be the God He reveals to us & what He accomplishes for us. Blessings.

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The Holy Spirit resides in all who have come to faith in Jesus Christ ( John 14:17) & also convicts men of sin, of righteousness & (coming) judgement. ( John 16:7-11). So the Spirit is still working in the World until the appointed time when He is taken away (some argue as to when that time will be). The Son has now returned to the Father (back into the God folder), but He is distinct in that He is now God in the flesh, not as only the Word, but as the Son who has performed all that was required of Him on Earth & now at the Father's right Hand in Heaven ( Hebrews 7:25). In the human mind this is a difficult concept to grasp & that is why you are having difficulties. If you want to understand God in a human perspective, it won't work because we don't have anything on this Earth that can adequately compare to Him & our minds don't work in any other way. But do we say then that because we don't believe that such a Trinity can exist, therefore it's impossible for God to be such? I think then, that it's us who have the problem in understanding the Character of God & not the Doctrine.

Yes, illustrating the Trinity to man's trinitarian composition, is 'problematic': no illustration can adequately do the job, but I felt compelled to use it to try & help you understand, but that didn't work. And lastly, God is Spirit ( John 4:24), the Word was part of that Spirit, & the Holy Spirit was sent out into the World. So we only knew & heard God as Spirit in the OT. After Jesus ascended into Heaven, we see the (visible) God in Jesus, but we also know that God is still there ( Revelation 8:2 & about 3,000 other verses to prove it). God hasn't disappeared & Jesus has not taken His place. So please look into this & see where your theology has become skewed or maybe you are under some false teaching. May the Lord give you light on this very important matter.

God is not mad at you:

And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. ( 2 Corinthians 5:18-19)

Though innocent, the Lamb of God Jesus suffered exceedingly:

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. ( Hebrews 12:2-3)

Faith endures:

...And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. (from Hebrews 11)

Jesus said:

These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. ( John 16:33)

The LORD has a wonderful purpose in trials and suffering:

That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. ( 1 Peter 1:7-9)

Listen to the Scriptures: Ephesians 4:4-6 ( v.5 ) one baptism. 1st Corinthians 12: 12-27. Ephesians 5:30 Trust the Holy Spirit for direction not man, man has opinion The Word ( Bible ) has facts 1st Corinthians 2:9-14. Also our Lord talks about the Holy Spirit John 14: 16-26 and John 16:7-15. You have to do your part 2nd Timothy 2:15. Hope it helps.

Hello. If you truly care about him. Along with him saying he would listen to you about God. What I would say or start with is: "Why does he worship satan and where did he learn about him from"? As this could have come to him in many ways like music, family, trend, etc. Then just try to tell him the truth that satan does not care about him or anyone but himself. The devil knows he is already damned and just wants to destroy as many lives as he can. Here are a couple Bible verses I looked up showing that satan is the enemy and is already damned.

Matthew 4:1-10 , Jesus being tempted by him in the desert.

John 16:11 , the devil(prince of this world) has already been judged

Revelation 12:7-9 , satan being cast down to earth

Revelation 20:1-15 , satan cast into the lake of fire

Jude 1:6-9 , fallen angels and Michael Archangel contending with devil

John 8:44 , devil is the father of lies

Galatians 5:19-21 , lusts of the flesh(what the devil wants people to do)

Along with the others who responded to you. All else I can really say is be careful. Pray to our Father and Jesus Christ to lead you. Maybe try to read through the Bible with him. Show him that Jesus Christ is the only way. He may turn from satan or you may have to leave him. You will be in my prayers. God Bless.

I am so sorry for your loss. I can only imagine the pain you are feeling. I will definitely keep you in my prayers.

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Yes, dear Hugo, I was referring to our conversation on 'prophets'. Re: Ecclesiastes 6:11, I think you have the wrong reference; possibly Proverbs 10:19, though this too doesn't apply.

I realize that you're not denying the deity of Christ in one sense, but I would advise you that 'Trinitarians' likewise don't deny it either. A Trinitarian understanding of the Scriptures as you know, is that there is One God & that God has expressed Himself (& revealed to us) His Being. God shows us Himself also by His Word & His Spirit - you know the Scriptures that support this. Then at the appointed time ( Romans 5:6), God sent His Word ( John 1:14) to be clothed with flesh so that a full & permanent sacrifice could be made for sin unlike animal sacrifices.

After Christ's death, resurrection & ascension, He went to sit at the Father's right Hand ( Luke 22:69; Romans 8:34) where He "ever lives to make intercession for us" ( Hebrews 7:25; Romans 8:34). So we see the Father in Heaven, His Son (Word made flesh) at the Father's right Hand & His Spirit who indwells the believer ( John 14:17; Ephesians 1:13,14) & convicts men ( John 16:8). There is no such teaching from the Bible that Jesus only exists in Heaven & that the Father & Holy Spirit are now existing in Jesus. I know this is the teaching of the "Jesus Only" movement. The Father, the Son & the Spirit are still there & all three remain part of the Eternal Godhead (& yes, by all means, level your accusation at me), for the Bible is clear. If you have Scriptures to show that this is not the case, then I welcome your further input & my study.

My response to Claire from the other thread. Page 1.

Hi Claire. We're glad to help with some advice as we know you're in a difficult situation & struggling with Church, etc. To your points:

a. When a person is saved (born again), it means that God does a special work in that person's life after she comes to the point of realizing that her life of sin or rejection of God is weighing heavily on her heart & there is nothing she can do to clean herself up & so is cast upon God for His mercies. Without that conviction of sin, there can be no salvation, otherwise we end up being like some in Churches: going regularly to feel good or try to make God feel good about them. This is not re-birth. So after acknowledging our sin & realizing that only Jesus Christ, God's Son can pay the price of your sin which you couldn't, then you run to the Cross & cling onto Jesus asking for forgiveness (not a physical cross but from your heart).

If you have truly come for the sake of the burden of your sinful life & not for any other motive, then God receives your repentance, forgives you your past sins, gives you His Spirit to be in you to give you a new life in Christ. The old sinful nature still remains, to which Satan appeals & causes us to stumble, but God's Nature (Spirit) will always work against the Old nature, which is when you immediately know when you stumble into sin (e.g. when the carpet salesman asked you about giving you an earlier quote & you lied - you immediately knew you had done wrong as the Spirit convicted you).

Jesus referred to His Spirit as the Comforter ( John 16:7). The Spirit's Work in the believer is to comfort, teach, convict of sin, encourage, help in praying, becoming more Christ-like, help to gain victory over sin ( 2 Corinthians 10:2-6), loving God & others with godly love ("agape"), etc. So you always have God in you as He has sealed you as belonging to Him for all eternity ( Ephesians 1:13, 14).