Discuss John 17 Page 10

Dear friends in Jesus. Is it not so that Judas have heard the word spoken by Jesus from the beginning of the journey with the Lord?

How is it possible to stand against the Word of God?

Judas have also seen all the work of God what Jesus did. How is it possible to stand against the Lord?

Could it have being any of the disciples who took food from the dish, that the devil get in to? No.

Or is this a huge picture of what money can do to ppl? Do we reely want money then and get stinginess?

I belive we can turn away from that issue, and we can be saved.

Acts 1:25

That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

In my KJV translation is might omitted. So its like this 25) to get part in this ministry the apostolic work that Judas abused, so he could go to his own place.

He was chosen by the Lord, Judas was a Apostle like the others, for sure the King loved him. He had no choice on this question it was predetermined. Someone had to do it unfortunately.

John 17:12

While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

So i belive Judas have a place, but if its Judas Jesus talking about here, then he is lost.

Earl,

I do not believe that Jesus was only a man and that He received the Holy Spirit at His baptism. I do not believe that He was only a man that was filled with God at His baptism. These views have been denounced as heresies throughout the centuries. To believe that Jesus was only human, then such belief denies that He was divine, as well from birth. Denying the divinity of Jesus denies that He pre-existed for all of eternity in the Trinitarian Godhead for all eternity and never had a beginning as God the Son. If Jesus died as only a human, His sacrifice could only reconcile man to man, not man to God. But, the church has affirmed that Jesus was fully human and fully divine in one nature (without mixing the natures to become a third type of nature). It is this human/divine nature that made his sacrifice efficacious for mankind by being a perfectly sinless man and perfectly and equally divine Son of God, (as the Father and the Spirit are perfectly and equally divine) He was able to satisfy what God required of man to be in right relationship with God (which no other human can be) and being divine, He is able to reconcile us to God and raise up us up to have union with God, as He promised at the Last Supper as He prayed. John 17:20-23. Christian orthodox teaching has stated that our Savior is equally human and divine because that is what was necessary for mankind to be fully redeemed to what God willed for us to become in Him.

Earl, I know that we will agree to disagree on this, but I do think that it is vital for believers to know correct doctrine, and I contend for the orthodox teachings of the church because it is important to refute heretical ideas. We cannot both be correct in this. If you are willing, you may want to study the various heresies rejected by the church over the centuries concerning the nature of Jesus Christ as to what the heretics taught about this topic, and what the church pointed out as the error in the heretics teaching.

Blessings, always.

Leland,

God has declared the end from the beginning, He is in total control and it is hard for us to grasp with our human minds. It is for His pleasure and His glory and His counsel shall stand Isaiah 46:10. It is beyond our understanding, like what God allowed Satan to do to Job. I was not blessed with children and I cannot pretend to know how I would feel if I lost every child I had, along with all I owned. Do we have that kind of faith? The times are coming for those who are living when the end of days begins, it will take that kind of faith.

God uses people good and bad to do His will. Look at Pharaoh, God raised him to do His will Exodus 9:16. God named King Cyrus of Persia by name before he is even born to serve Him, Isaiah 45, and more.

I feel Jesus answers this, God gave the disciples to Jesus, and Judas was given to fulfill scripture. God knew who he was and he is one of two who is called the son of perdition.

John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

God bless,

RLW

1 John 5:7-8, in context: 1 John 5:1-12, Romans 12:3-6, Ephesians 4:4-5, John 17:9-23, 1 Corinthians 12:12-14, Ephesians 1:8-11,

John 1:1-5, John 10:14-17, John 10:28-30,

Hopefully these are helpful in your study for truth & understanding.

Larry Hudson, Perhaps you are very aware of the scripture & The HOLY Spirit has revealed to you an amazing & important message. Isaiah 53, Psalms 22, Romans 11:7-36, Romans 1:16, Matthew 10:5-6, Matthew 15:24, John 8:1-58,

John 16:1-4, John 17:1-26, John 18:12-15,

Forgive our zeal for GOD's love for us. As adopted in, grafted in children. John 3:16,

Hello Walter. You wrote: "if someone is first and last all they are stating the(y) are the only one." If Jesus has stated this (as in Revelation 1:8; Revelation 12:13), could He actually be identifying completely with the One God, from Whom He once proceeded from, as the Word of God given flesh? 'Alpha & Omega' is a very strong loaded phrase that can only be denoted to God, to which the risen Jesus Who sits at the right Hand of God, makes claim to ( Colossians 3:1; Hebrews 10:12; 1 Peter 3:22). If the 'only one God now is Jesus', what happened to the Father, Whom Jesus sits beside? Jesus not only prayed to His Father whilst He walked on Earth, but now reigns with Him ( Revelation 3:21; Revelation 7:10).

Good observation Walter.

What you are saying is When Paul asked Who are thou Lord he was addressing the Lord he was taught in Judaism, When Jesus answered he realized that The Lord he was addressing IS the Lord of Judaism and He's Jesus. Am I correct?

God bless.

Sister GiGi:

John 17:21 That they ALL MAY BE ONE, as thou Father art in me, and I in thee, that they may all be one in us ....

This says that whatever and however the Father and Son have existed since the beginning, is the way we will also exist, in them, forever.

Colossians 1:19 For it please the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Ephesians 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth ALL in ALL.

You can have the doctrines of man, I will take the doctrines of WORD.

Walter,

You are espousing a Oneness Doctrine that denies the Triune nature of God and promotes what as been known as Modalism over the centuries. This teaching has been deemed heresy throughout church history. It is refuted by Scripture as all three persons of the the Godhead presented themselves at Jesus' baptism and Jesus instructed the apostles to baptize in the name each of the Persons of the Godhead.

People are free to believe and say what they understand to be true. But, likewise, we are free to refute wat we think is false teaching. I suggest that you google "Modalism" to learn more about why I am saying this.

In His Love,

In order to understand God completely we must be born again. The scriptures say no man can say that Jesus is Lord without the Holy Spirit - meaning everyone without the Holy Spirit can not understand who God is! Take the Apostles Paul; he killed many of the original saints and thought he was doing God's work however on the road of Damascus, a great light shine and Paul (Saul was his name at that time) ask who are thou Lord; the Lord he was referencing was the one, he supposing was serving (Jehovah of the Old Testament); the Lord (to the Israelites there is but one God, hence the reason they have not really excepted Jesus as Lord.

In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God- the Word was God! The Word became flesh (Jesus Christ) and dwelt among us. Read John 1:1-14

The bottom line God said I am alpha and omega (first and last) it is natural for us not to understand how someone can be first and last but spiritually we are able to discern if someone is first and last all they are stating the are the only one.

Jesus was God manifest (clearly shown) in the flesh, there are three manifestation of God but there is only one God and his name is Jesus!

The Father and the Son are 2 distinct beings as the Son prays to his Father and the Father tells the world this is my beloveth Son , This Father and Son relationship is unbreakable , If they were the same identical being that wd make the Father a liar. Ya gotta realise the FATHER neva died only the son died, But only his body died his Spirit neva died ,thus he commended his Spirit back to his Father's hands the lil ones ,I will turn my hands to the lil ones ,When a seed dies it multiplies But as Jesus said if a seed dies it will bring forth much fruit, had he not died there wd have been only 1 Christ but b/c of his death he will be multiplied as the stars of heaven, lil ones imply multiplication . Smite the shepard and the sheep will be scattered THEN I WILL TURN MY HAND TO THE LIL ONES . That was the great Promise that Christ wd be multiplied as the stars of heaven ,When a seed dies it multiplies and this multiplication implies every one is gonna see him , The field is the world thus the world is gonna birth a baby Christ The Granson Thus everybody is gonna see him, Whosoever receiveth one such Child in my name receiveth me. Jeremiah 30 : 6 The world is in travail and birth pains .

The very fact that we have a Father and a Son begs the question of a Granson and equally important AN ISRAEL OF GOD , A heavenly Jacob. Thats y the new birth is so important its the means by which Christ will be multiplied in humanity as the stars of heaven ( by his Seed the words of the new covenant ) Without this Abrahamic Trinity there wd have neva been a nation of ISRAEL . likewise without the heavenly trinity there cannot be an Israel of God via the seed of Christ that are gonna be as the stars of heaven. Remember that great Promise that Christ wd be multiplied as the stars of heaven,Thats y the Sower will go forth to sow his precious seed the living word in humanity. That we might be bornagain of his incorruptible seed. Thus an ISRAEL OF GOD.

Brother Dan.

My view on John 3:5.

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. "Born of water" This has nothing to do with baptism by water. If this baptism have anything to do with this section of scripture it would be in verse 6 where Jesus says "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirt. Romans 6:4. The water mentioned here I believe is the word of God!

John 17:17. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. " The cleansing sanctifying power of the word!"

John 15:3. Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

Hebrews 4:12. The word is alive!! A person must be born again by the use of the scripture and its the Holyspirit taking the scripture and using it. I've heard it put like this, You have Spirit of God using the word of God through the man of God.

Verse 11: Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We "SPEAK" that we do know, and "TESTIFY" that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

It takes the spirit of God to be obedient to the word of God. It takes the spirit of God to receive the word of God. And it take the word of God to receive the spirit of God through baptism of the Holyspirit.

I haven't heard one person on this site said they wasn't baptized, So why quarrel about obedience in that regard? But many of us say it wasn't to add to what Christ done on the cross. Is that disobedience? If you believe keeping some ritual or commandments is your way to salvation, What does the cross mean to you? Christ wasn't sacrificed "JUST IN CASE YOU FALL SHORT" He was sacrificed because you couldn't. He paid the penalty BECAUSE YOU ARE ALL READY GUILTY.

God bless.

Seeking, sitting at the right hand of the Father represents that Christ is the body that does all things the Father shows him to DO.

There is only one throne:

Revelation 3:21 He that overcometh will I (Christ) grant to sit with me (Christ) on my throne, even as I (Christ) overcame, an am set down with my Father own his throne.

John 17:21 That they all may be ONE, as thou, Father, art in me, and I in you, that they also may be ONE in us: that the world may believe that thou has sent me.

I really don't understand what you are saying, selah is a word, there is letters numbers and words. Why are you trying to confused people. don't think it's more wiser to tell people the meaning of the word selah. Don't think it's better to let people be there own individual who God has made. If the writer of the old testament, see it fit to put it there who are you to decide that you should not use it or it should not be there or it is not a word. The Bible said holy men move as God gives them utterance. The reason why the church is in the place that it is today. It is because everybody want to rewrite over the word of God God give no man that authority, the Bible said do not add to his word neither take away from his word. Rev.22:18.. God resist the proud and he give more grace to the humble, James4:6 too much proud man and woman is on pulpit, and taking people to hell. God is the same yesterday today and forever more. Enough is enough we need to get back to the true and living God, his word is truth. Sanctify them through your truth, his word is truth. John 17:17 his true shall be my shield and buckle. Psalm 91: 4 God bless all

Brother Mishael, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

No one will have their own body and be like they were in their thirties.

Everyone that's born again; will upon the death of this body of flesh, be GIVEN the BODY OF CHRIST.

1 Timothy 6:16 Who ONLY hath IMMORTALITY, dwelling in the LIGHT ....

1 Corinthians 15:54 ....this mortal shall PUT ON IMMORTALITY (we put on Christ, our wedding garment and we are married to Christ. we BECOME ONE) the FULLNESS OF GOD.

John 17:21 That they all may be ONE, as thou Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world hast sent me.

John 17:22 And the GLORY that thou hast GIVEN ME I have GIVEN THEM; that they may be one, even as we are one:

John 17:23 I in them and thou in me, that thy may be perfect in one; that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast LOVED THEM, as thou hast LOVED ME.

The same way and with the same glory that THE SON has existed with THE FATHER since the beginning, is the same way and same glory we ARE GOING TO EXIST with the Son and the Father.

May the Spirit give us eyes to see.

GBU

John 12:1-6, John 13:1-30, Psalm 41:9 (prophecy), John 17:1-12, hopefully these are also helpful in your study.

BE WITH ME WHERE I AM

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible (seed), BY THE WORD OF GOD, which liveth and abideth forever.

By reading and speaking God's word, these words began to overcome you, and you began to become ONE with these words, UNTIL:

John 17:21 That they all may be ONE; as thou, Father art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be ONE in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

John 17:22 And the glory thou hast given me, I HAVE GIVEN THEM, that they may be ONE, even as we are ONE:

John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they maybe made PERFECT IN ONE; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou has given me, BE WITH ME WHERE I AM; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast give me: for thou lovest me before the foundation of the world.

Christ is IN HIS CREATION ( Colossians 1:27) bring them to the Father, when you depart this flesh YOU are going to be with Christ in HIS CREATION, bringing HIS CREATION to TRUTH ( Revelation 10:11).

GRACE_ambassador,

I thought instead of just putting out my understanding to Sangeeth Joseph question, I would list a few questions for study on this thought on end times. Prophecy vs Mystery how does that fit. I'm not sure I follow, I know prophecy mostly is on the house of Israel and for Israel will come to fulfillment in the 1000 years when Jesus sets up the kingdom here on earth.

But there are prophecies about the end time that will affect individuals, not nations, that are still living when it starts. Some teaching could have some unprepared and may be devastating to someone's faith, I do not take that as vain or unprofitable 2 Timothy 2:15 it was not a question of salvation.

We know the mystery and the promise in Genesis 22 when Abraham did not withhold his son to sacrifice him. All nations would be blessed through his seed and this was not revealed until after Israel rejected the Messiah Jesus when He first came was only for the house of Israel to confirm the covenant and fulfill it, and the kingdom of God had come, but they rejected it. The gospel of Christ was then given to the Gentiles by Paul, which is the mystery. One of the reasons was to make Israel jealous. Did you know Paul was not the first to preach Christ to the Gentiles?

I will study the link you put out, not sure if I follow how it relates to what I posted, maybe after I study it I will see.

God bless,

RLW

Good afternoon friend, In a vision as a young man while working, I stood beside the Lamb of God where a voice thundered asking if this is what I was looking for. It has taken nearly thirty years to realize that I also saw the mystery which was and is and is to come, a complete non- resistance to the Father in a visible and Holy Body. However many Saints before died in grace of this knowledge, by faith and the mystery like other prophecy has been already revealed.

RLW, Precious friend:

You say "Prophecy," but Where Does God's "Revelation of The MYSTERY," And 2 Timothy 2:15 {answering 'Confusion'?} fit into your "study" equation?:

Prophecy vs MYSTERY:

Link

Sangeeth Joseph,

Prophecy has been interpreted by misunderstandings and assumptions. It has been misheard and many false teachings have people looking for things that are not coming. Prophecy shows that God is in ultimate control.

When studying prophecy, God's word (scripture) the Holy Spirit is the interpreter we are not. Prophecy is generally understood after it has been fulfilled, it confirms the word of God and the prophet is of God.

If we have decided the answer by the teachings we have been taught, or other opinions before we have gone to the Bible in prayer for the facts and truth, the only things we will see in scripture will line up with the conclusion we have already come to. Where did the seven years in this teaching come from? Has the 70-weeks in Daniel been fulfilled already Daniel 9:24-27? Is the rapture (catching up or away) 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 the same as the resurrection, the day of redemption? Is the great tribulation the same as the wrath of God? Is our blessed hope, to be spared great tribulation? How about all the martyrs before us, are we more worthy?

Does scripture tell us our destination after we meet Jesus in the air? Is there any scripture that says we will be taken or we go to heaven? Are there other scriptures that tell us it will be after the great tribulation? Does scripture tell us every eye shall see Jesus coming?

These are just a few questions, I hope you take them out of love for study and are not offensive. I could tell you what I believe but if it is different, will not help. Pray and let the Holy Spirit lead you to the truth. It will not be overnight and some questions will never be answered. Your question is the covid shot the mark of the beast, it is not. When that happens Satan is permanently cast down and the beast and the false prophet are full throttles. The mark will be based on worship, whoever will take it will know what they are doing.

We are told to study and to try the spirits.

God bless,

RLW

I believe the 10 virgins parable.as inbe ready and looking for Jesus every moment.

Be a watchman of Matthew 24 and Luke 21.

Perceive Birth Pains. Starts off slow. Events speed up. It's painful to witness the signs of the times speeding up. The sheer amount of population, clueless, as to why life is becoming jaded, and unable to discern that events are becoming harder to bear. Kind of like how our government is becoming more oppressive every day; the earth is hemorrhaging in floods, storms, earthquakes, fires, volcanos; very very hot or much too cold. The discomfort of labor increases to Intolerable!! Second stage continues until birth.

We can discern that transition is imminent, by what is happening in the world.

If we act like ostriches any put our heads in the sand (acting like nothing is wrong or blaming it on global warming) we will not see Jesus COMING IN THE CLOUDS.

If you scripture search that phrase "Coming in the Clouds", it gives us more info on Jesus's Arrival.

I believe we will clearly see the beginnings of Tribulation Happenings. We see them now. One being, Israel being surrounded by her enemies. The Third Temple in Jerusalem being built. That's happening. You can view the progress on YouTube or Google, every day. Israel will swap land to have full access to all of the Temple Mount.

This presidency has withdrawn financial and military protection to Israel; and our nation is being invaded by foreign nations. A curse ( Genesis 12:1-3) ( Leviticus 26)

Only people who are good sign readers are not going to sleep their way through these final moments of earths history, and the reality of the Tribulation to advance in terror and pain.

See the Signs! Look Up! Your Redemption draws Closer!

There's a YouTube site that people all over the planet send them videos of daily disasters In their country. "The Two Preachers" , go have a look.

I believe in a pretrib rapture, what are your views about rature , pretrib, midtrib Bible verses to support it

and also whether you think the vacc is the mark of the Beast, released step by step into it's full form as described by the Bible.

Yes this scripture does help thanks T. Levis. very encouraging scriptures.

Psalms 105:15

"Saying, Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm."

King James Version (KJV)

Keep sharing these scriptures with us.

2 peter 1:20,21

John 17:3

John 3:16,17

Once again, brother Ronald, your comments are appreciated & vibrates well in both my mind & spirit.

You wrote of "In the beginning". Of course, this strongly suggests that there was a beginning, or commencement to this Word, yet we know & accept that God Himself had no beginning (in time). From eternity to eternity He will ever be God. If then God is eternal & His Word & Spirit must always co-exist within Him & with Him, we can then only question the meaning of "In the beginning". So, it's always been natural to interpret that to mean 'From eternity' because of God's Nature, but as you suggest, it's beyond us, how else could we interpret this phrase & still make it fit Who God is?

As much as I understand that you don't deny Christ's divinity, there is still the belief that divinity came upon Him at some other point: whether in His Birth, Life or ministry. So, even though we cannot be clear to "In the beginning", we can be clear that God's Word, immaterial, yet in God's Essence, emanated from Him, God choosing that Word to be made flesh. He could have chosen His Spirit to take on humanity instead, but that thought would lead us nowhere. Whereas, the Scriptures that have been cited in other posts, give us clear evidence that Jesus understood His Presence with God, having been graced with God's Glory pre-creation ( John 17:5). And in Colossians 1:16 which you quoted: He was not only in the beginning of creation, but as the verse tells us, He was the Creator (I can only understand this as the Creator God & His Word were joint Authors of all creation).

All these show us Christ's Divinity before His coming in Humanity. That He was the Son of God by virtue of His Birth & not by His pre-existence. And indeed, the demons called Him the Son of God, because that's Who He was & to Whom they were addressing. The point is, does a reference to Jesus' Sonship negate His Deity & intrinsic connection to the Father in eternity? Thank you again & may His blessings be yours always.

Brother Adam, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

1 Thessalonians 4:17

The born again of SPIRIT, starting with the apostles and all thereafter, until the present, are ALIVE AND REMAINING NOW, in the PRESENCE of SPIRIT clothed in the BODY OF CHRIST. ( 1 Corinthians 15:54)

He who is born of SPIRIT is SPIRIT.

God is SPIRIT, Spirit is GOD.

Psalms 82:6

John 10:34-35

John 17:21-22

Isaiah 27:12

The DEAD awaiting the resurrection back to flesh, can not be caught up in to the clouds (born again of Spirit) until they are judged and die the SECOND DEATH (Truth, Life, the Way), then they CAN ALSO become SON'S OF GOD.

Isaiah 26:9

Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the CREATURE waiteth for the manifestation of the SONS OF GOD.

Romans 8:21 For the CREATURE ITSELF shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption (flesh) into the glorious liberty of the SONS OF GOD (Spirit).

Page 1.

Hello Ronald. Thank you brother for your thoughtful comments & I certainly respect the spirit that you have given them in. In considering both the individual aspects of your comments as well as its overall thrust, I would say that at the first, we need to determine Jesus' position pre-incarnate & post-incarnate. On this determination, hang all our beliefs & discussions of the Godhead (i.e. the Father, the Word & the Holy Spirit).

Re: Jesus' flesh. As I read the Word, I believe that Jesus was born of God entirely pure, i.e. with flesh untarnished with sin. It could be said that his flesh was as that of Adam, pre-fall. However, Adam sinned & the sin nature & propensity to sin passed on all of us, but Jesus refused to sin, that "he was on all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin" ( Hebrews 4:15b) - still in the flesh but the sin nature couldn't take hold. Some would say that Jesus was the product of the fusing of the seed of God & the seed of Mary. I would tend to disagree; if anything directly human was involved in human production, then the sin nature has to be passed on. I believe that what was placed in Mary was entirely of God & Mary was the vehicle for bringing forth a child, in fulfilment of the prophecies concerning Him.

So, when I say 'Godhead', in lieu of 'Trinity', it is to firstly avoid the naysayers, & secondly to emphasize that the Godhead cannot be complete without the Word & the Spirit being vitally connected & a part of Almighty God's Being. If the Word proceeded out from God, as even He sends forth His Spirit, then the Word made flesh must be the exact personification of God, sans the humanity & the laying aside of His Glory that "He had with (God) before the world was" ( John 17:5).

Brother adam, may christ in us grace us with his wisdom and his knowledge.

the spirit is the god. everything after this is by inheritance.

christ was the firstborn. the firstborn received the inheritance of the father. his father is the god (source of life, truth, etc. christ became a god through inheritance.

christ came to give us this same inheritance, we also will become a god through inheritance.

psalms 82:6

john 10:34-35

john 17:21

If one quotes a scripture, wouldn't it be from the word of God and

not from men or woman.

But if the bible is not quoted from the bible;

would wisdom still be of much value?

Jesus quoted his fathers words perfectly ( John 8). and the prophets

spoke from God ( Psalm 83:18)

Who is much wiser? Who is wiser to instruct mankind?

God ( Psalm 83:18) and his Son?

2 Timothy 3:16,17;

2 Peter 1:20,21 (holy spirit John 4:24)

John 17:3

John 14:6-28

Psalm 1:1-3

or

Men and many books?

Jeremiah 10:23

Romans 3:23

Ecclesiastes 12:12-14

Psalms. 146:3, 4

Hope you like

these scriptures.

Sister Annie, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

God is SPIRIT, spirit can not be seen.

God (Spirit) wanted children (sons and daughters) of God; but he wanted them to have a BODY.

God spoke Christ (the Body) into existence. All the FULLNESS of SPIRIT (the Father) dwells in the SON (BODY of CHRIST).

Revelation 3:14 An unto the angel (Christ, the messenger of the Father) of the Church .....these things say the Amen, the faithful and true witness (of the Father), the BEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF GOD(SPIRIT).

We can not even begin to fully understand the GLORY the SON has had with the Father since the BEGINNING.

The word of God tell us that through the works of the CROSS, Christ is going to give us this SAME GLORY that he shares with our Father.

When we come to this TRUTH, we are ready to be present with the Lord and absent this body.

But; our Father CAUSES us to continue SUFFERING IN THE FLESH, until our appointed time to depart this flesh.

Then this happens:

1 Corinthians 15:54 DEATH is swallowed up in VICTORY.

We are then GIVEN the BODY of CHRIST and the FULLNESS of SPIRIT (GOD).

John 17:21 And the GLORY that thou hast GIVEN me, I have GIVEN THEM; that they may be ONE as we are ONE.