Discuss John 17 Page 12

Good morning Mishael,

Thank you for your, explanation of the Trinity. It really is such a mystery yet the Bible clearly shows three distinct persons in the Godhead, and also states that God is truly one LORD ( Deut. 6:4). we can see the manifestation of the trinity at Jesus' baptism with the Son incarnated in Jesus, the Father speaking in an audible voice from heaven, and the Holy Spirit's descent upon Jesus. If one reads the Last Supper Discourse in John 14-17 one will note that Jesus speaks of the Father and the Holy Spirit as distinct persons but then He states the oneness of the three persons.

It is not just the Catholic church that affirms this, rather most traditional Protestant churches affirm this doctrine also. However, it was the Catholic church through those early centuries that repeatedly refuted the various heresies that evolved in those times concerning the nature of God. Among those heresies, there are a few that have emerged in recent times:

Modalism: teaches that God is only one person yet manifests Himself at different times as Father, Son, and Spirit. Scripture references Jesus speaking at the Last Supper Discourse of the Father and Spirit as real persons He was in relationship with. Yet Jesus also speaks of these Persons also being one with Him. ( John 14-18)

Adoptionism: teaches that Jesus attained godhood by living a perfect sinless life. Yet Scripture shows us that Jesus pre-existed His conception in Mary when He said to the Pharisees, "before Abraham was I am." During the Last Supper discourse, Jesus also asked the Father "glorify Me together with You, with the glory which I had with You before the world was." ( John 17:5) Paul states that the world was created by Jesus, so He existed eternally as God the Son before anything was created. ( Hebrews 1:1-3) and elsewhere.

Rejection of Jesus' divinity: Some sects in Christianity that hold to this doctrine teach that Jesus was just a perfect man, not part of the Godhead.

Yes, Dan, we can thank God for His goodness and ALL that He is. The more we learn about Him the more we realize how praiseworthy He is, and so, this leads us to worship Him more perfectly in spirit and in truth. I have been studying and journaling about Him for the past two months. I just started it out from my study of Genesis 1 and wrote "in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." I noted, "This verse tells me first of all, that God is! And went from there to sites that cite Scriptures that reveal His attributes. I write I discover anew about Him and note the Scripture references. It has been so uplifting to do so! I encourage such as study to anyone who wishes to know our wonderful God more.

"And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, Whom You have sent." John 17:3

Our relationship with the only true God is the reason God created man as He did-to know Him. Think about the goodness of having eyes, ears, etc. to observe His revelation of Himself in history; of our minds that can think, reason, and store what is learned from His revelation; for language by which we speak and read about Him and His revelation of Himself as well as words to praise and worship Him; our emotions so that we can be moved by His love for us and return it back to Him; our ability compose music and song to praise Him with; our spiritual nature to yearn for Him and be regenerated by the Holy Spirit to believe and receive Him within us. The goodness of God is boundless like all of His attributes. Knowing that in His wisdom He designed us in such a good way to enter into profound relationship with the Creator and Maker of all things despite our creaturely limitations and His unsearchable, infinite, perfect, pure, holy, transcendent nature. How wonderful that He made it so that we can know enough of Him in this life and the next for us to be completely satisfied in Him, even though we cannot come close to knowing ALL that He is!

Hi Dennis.

Ephesians 6:12.

Just wanted to bring clarity to what I posted and what has been presented. I used 2 Corinthians 4:4. You see the work of Satan that hinders the mind of most of the world.

All the blessings mentioned in the other post is offered to the "whole world" but few will receive it. Mathew 7:13-14.

The Lord is calling a people OUT of the world."His Church" starting with the Apostles who was to be a whiteness but to be separate from the world where Satan is the prince.

Here is just a few scripture references of the Lord and our relationship to the world as we stand.

John 17:9-16.

John 12:31.

1 John 2:15-17.

John 1:6-12.

In Revelation-12:9. Scripture says Satan deceives the whole world. You see by then the church is taken out of the world Gods children Will be with him, They're children of the light. Satan is the ruler of darkness. Ephesians 6:12.

When a person is not born again "Born from above", He is what is called "In the flesh" and that flesh is controlled by principalities, powers, and rulers of darkness. His father is the prince of this world! Satan rules in his heart.

The Lord came to give you a NEW heart and a new spirit as he promised the Jews in Ezekiel 36:26-27.

More references:

Beginning with Luke 4:5-7. Here you see Satan tries to temp Jesus to bypass the cross where he will bruise Satans head and have the final climax in Revelation.

Did you notice, Jesus never refuted satans claim?

This is why Paul stated this in Romans 8:19-22.

This is why Abraham pitched tents looking for a land who's maker is God.

Peter says we are strangers and pilgrims.

When Christ come set up his literal kingdom he will rule with a rod of iron and rule in mans heart.

That has not happened yet.

God bless.

Genesis 1:26, "let them" & please note "dominion over fish of the Sea" so why would he put 1 man 1 woman into a garden HE made after HE told them to take dominion? If you read with Wisdom from GOD as given by asking GOD: James 1:5, You will find GOD is the same yesterday today & forever, Hebrews 13:8, Numbers 23:19, Titus 1:2, GOD does not lie nor tempt people to sin: James 1:13, 1Samuel 15:29, never said that was ok, it's contrary: Leviticus 20:17, Therefore understanding GOD's nature read again. Genesis 1:26-29, Genesis 2:7-8, Notice there is distinction between formed here. The Garden may be representative of the Church notice also the command given to the 'man Gen 1:27-28, yet this man was left alone, Gen 2:15-23, Explain Gen 4:14-25, without other people. Please also ask yourself honestly: would parents actually give a daughter to a murderer? It really takes more fake faith to believe the lies of perversion! Those lies have no scripture support!

2Thessalonians 2:10-12, Colossians 2:8, Even to the ' religious authority ' Jesus had to rebuke: John 8:44,

Keep reading The WORD, keep seeking truth GOD loves those that seek HIM Deuteronomy 4:29, 3John 1:3, John 17:17, Zechariah 8:16,

Hopefully these are helpful in your searching for truth

... Continued part 4

I think this is enough for now.

Our God is so great and amazing. He deserves our all.

I have been studying Hod's essence and attributes for the past month or so again, as I have done so in the past.

How please my heart is to be reminded of how wonderful He is.

I have purposely not cited Scripture verses for these thoughts because I would hope that those who want them would read up on this subject and find Scriptures cited by many who have written more extensively on this matter on a number of sites. These writers have done the work of searching the Scriptures for us. We would need to read the the whole Bible to get this knowledge. But, thankfully, others have done so, and we can read their findings and check out the Scripture verses to see if what is said in other their writings and Scripture align. I encourage people to do their own inquiry. They will be blessed. Having a truer view of who God really is is profitable to believers. In fact Jesus said that "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only True God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."

John 17:3

I can't disagree with what you've written Jim, particularly those individual quotes from Scripture. For truly Jesus' coming was in God's Mind at that earliest time in the first man & woman's lives. He was symbolically the spiritual Rock that supplied life-giving water to Israel, as He is also the Giver of that Living Water to all who believe. And He did become the Man Jesus at His Birth as He could also say that He would ascend to His Father & your (Mary's) Father.

The problem becomes evident when we rest only on those individual Scriptures & not look at all the Scriptures that speak of Him. I realize that you did, a few days ago, give your understanding of John 1:1-14, which I can't locate again. How then do you view John 8:58, John 17:5, or even Colossians 1:14-17, to name a few? What you write to us, we can readily agree to, but it's the Scriptures that are not taken into account, that makes understanding a difficult doctrine, one-sided. If these 'other' Scriptures were not given to us, then truly we must believe that Christ came into Being at His Conception in Mary. The examples of verses I've given above would be very difficult to read in any other way than given. Here are Truths that we can't avoid - they, together with His coming as a Man, must fit together so that we can properly understand Who this Jesus is (at least as much as is revealed to us).

Indeed Jim. Jesus was known as both the Son of God & the Son of Man - He definitely was a Man in every respect, bar the sin nature.

You wrote: "Jesus was exalted by God. If he was exalted it must mean he was lower in position." And again, yes, He was found in that lower position as a man, which Hebrews 2:9 speaks of: "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man." And in His Coming, "HE TOOK NOT ON HIM the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham." (v16). Why should it be said of Him that He should take on man's flesh (seed of Abraham), when the possibility was there that He take on the nature "like unto the angels"? Apart from the obvious fact that He needed to become a Man for being the sacrifice for our sins, the other matter that is evident in that verse, is that He had the Power to assume any substance or material He wished. So Who then is this Man Jesus? Is He not the One Who also said, "Before Abraham was (or, existed), I am" ( John 8:58)? And He also said, "O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I HAD WITH THEE before the world was." ( John 17:5).

The question therefore remains: where was Jesus before He became a Man & before He "MADE HIMSELF of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross." ( Philippians 2:8,9)? If He only began life as a Man of God/God's Appointed, how do we answer these other Scriptures that speak of another Life before His Birth? And His clear claims to a pre-existence in Heaven? Can we force another meaning to any of them?

This is my name.

It's alright if you don't wish to respond to me, which ever the reasons may be. Please read: John 19:28, 1 Peter 1:20,

John 19:36, prophetic fulfilled by Isaiah the same Prophet that declares GOD's recompense, vengeance, punishment. Romans 11:2,

Luke 4:18,19, Isaiah 53, Luke 4:23-27, Galatians 3:8, Acts 8:32, Mark 15:28, Psalms 22, John 19,

John 19:37, John 20:9, 2 Timothy 3:16, Mark 12:10, John 13:18, John 7:42, John 17:12,

Luke 8:28

Jude 1,

Matthew 25:31-46,

Apologies Billy. I read your comment to Adam in a different way.

You're correct, Jesus' Name is not seen there in John 1:1-14, but who then is John the Apostle writing about? I can't think of anyone else that fits that description. John wrote about the Word of God: that which was with God & God Himself (v1). This Word was involved in creation (vv3,10) - notice John begins to use a pronoun (He, Him) describing this Word. In this Word was both Life & Light (v4). When John the Baptist arrived on the scene, he bore witness of that Light (v7). That Word Who was with God & was God, was made a man & lived the life of a man (v14). That Word came to His Own people but they rejected Him (v11), but those who received Him were made sons of God (v12). These are not separate accounts; this whole passage is consistent in its subject matter & implications.

This passage of Scripture is talking about God's Word. It's not about Apostle John or John the Baptist, or anyone else. The only Person Who could fit the bill is God's Word, Jesus Christ: He is the only One Who could be the giver of Life & Light & be the Creator of all things (also Colossians 1:15-17). He is the Only One Who could ask His Father ( John 17:5: "O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I HAD WITH thee before the world was."). He is the only One Who could state ( John 6:38: "For I CAME DOWN from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me."). And He is the only One Who could tell the Jews ( John 8:58: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS, I AM.").

I always wonder how folk consider these verses that I've shared here. I'm sure Jesus is not lying to us by saying those things. Do people read those verses as I do or in some other way that I'm missing? Or, should we determine that since the incarnation is 'impossible', therefore all these Scriptures are meaningless? Even if Christ's Deity is hard to understand, we can't simply reject it.

John 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 - As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 - And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4 - I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5 - And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. 6 - I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. 7 - Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.

Read all the chapter verse 8-26

What is the meaning of one?

Mark12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:

John.10:30 I and my Father are one.

John.17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

Rom.12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

1Cor.3::8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

1Cor.10:17 For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.

1Cor.12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

1John.5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Matt.19:5-6 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

John.17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 17:2-23 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Are we one, are we of one heart, are we of one accord, are we members in one body, are we of one mind, are we of one faith, if we are in Jesus, are we not all one?

God bless,

RLW

John 1:12,

John 17:1-26,

Romans 8:14,

1 John 1:1-2,

Hopefully that is helpful

He knew yet chose to still love.

Matthew 26:20-25, John 13:21,

John 17:12, John 17:1-26,

Proverb 27:6

I'm sorry for your loss of friends during this difficult time. I'm sure it's even more troubling for you because of that.

I do not believe it to be the 'time" nor 'mark' However I Believe we are to be wise. Psalms 2:10,Teaching our children. Deuteronomy 11:19.The scripture does say 'hand or forehead" Revelations 13:11-18, please read around scripture for best context. Unless translation could mean arm, it's not clearly "the mark of the beast". I think the reason many are alarmed about this is

1st because of ingredient in vaccination, Psalms 106:29, Psalms 36-39

2nd whistle blowers coming forth with evidence of ungodly acts in testing, ingredient & side-affects

3rd the division it's caused & causing in Church & society

4th The Forcefulness of it all, losing ability to work, travel in some cases

5th The targeting of the T-cells, and cells that give space for communication with GOD, discovered by scientific study, (Reported 2009). Even having immediate side-affects

6th possibly most troubling for some: 1st P. C. developer bought pharmaceutical & Biotechnology ''vaccination' developer. Then filed for patent : WO/2020/060606 for: Cryptocurrency using body activity.

Please don't panic. 1 John 4:18,

Mark 13:22, Mark 13:5-37, several of those have yet to happen. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-13, could the great falling away be those who put all faith in rapture? Revelations 6:8-11, John 17:1-20, holdfast during trial Matthew 24:13, Matthew 24:4-51,

What is worship? Is it adoration, admiration, time given to, consuming, looking into intently, loving? Some feared computers were "the beast" the image of the beast? Cell phones or 'computer chips" The other day I wondered what it looks like to GOD seeing so many faces looking into devices, not up to HIM. Let us Worship only GOD ALMIGHTY, creator of Heaven & Earth.

Hopefully this is helpful in your research of Truth. I will pray for you also & sad for your loss & heaviness for loved ones being deceived. Peace to you

Please read these:

John 10:1-4, John 10:7, John 10:9, John 10:11, John 10:14-17, John 10:25-30, John 10:32, John 10:34-38,

1 Corinthians 8:2-6

1 John 5:1-21,

John 17:1-11 * , John 17:12-21 *, John 17:21, John 17:22, John 17:23, John 17:24-26,

1 John 4:1-8, John 16:23,24,25,26,27,28

1 Timothy 2:3,5,6,

Romans 15:5-7,13,16,17

Ephesians 4:32,

Luke 18:19, Mark 10:18,

Matthew 16:15, Matthew 16:16-17

James 1:5

Hopefully these fully answer your question about Jesus, GOD & The HOLY Spirit.

Sister GiGi, they are complete opposites of the doctrines of man. Does the doctrines of the brick and mortar church teach the saints are going to judge the world. No, they teach when you die you either go to heaven or to hell. You, yourself in a new location. You are not going to be yourself, but a new creation in Christ Jesus. Man does not want to lose his own identity ( Matthew 16:25) and become the IMAGE of CHRIST. No greater love has a man than to die for his brother, Christ died for you, you have to die for Christ. This the first death ( Revelation 14:13).

John 17:21-24

Dear friends in Jesus. Is it not so that Judas have heard the word spoken by Jesus from the beginning of the journey with the Lord?

How is it possible to stand against the Word of God?

Judas have also seen all the work of God what Jesus did. How is it possible to stand against the Lord?

Could it have being any of the disciples who took food from the dish, that the devil get in to? No.

Or is this a huge picture of what money can do to ppl? Do we reely want money then and get stinginess?

I belive we can turn away from that issue, and we can be saved.

Acts 1:25

That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

In my KJV translation is might omitted. So its like this 25) to get part in this ministry the apostolic work that Judas abused, so he could go to his own place.

He was chosen by the Lord, Judas was a Apostle like the others, for sure the King loved him. He had no choice on this question it was predetermined. Someone had to do it unfortunately.

John 17:12

While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

So i belive Judas have a place, but if its Judas Jesus talking about here, then he is lost.

Earl,

I do not believe that Jesus was only a man and that He received the Holy Spirit at His baptism. I do not believe that He was only a man that was filled with God at His baptism. These views have been denounced as heresies throughout the centuries. To believe that Jesus was only human, then such belief denies that He was divine, as well from birth. Denying the divinity of Jesus denies that He pre-existed for all of eternity in the Trinitarian Godhead for all eternity and never had a beginning as God the Son. If Jesus died as only a human, His sacrifice could only reconcile man to man, not man to God. But, the church has affirmed that Jesus was fully human and fully divine in one nature (without mixing the natures to become a third type of nature). It is this human/divine nature that made his sacrifice efficacious for mankind by being a perfectly sinless man and perfectly and equally divine Son of God, (as the Father and the Spirit are perfectly and equally divine) He was able to satisfy what God required of man to be in right relationship with God (which no other human can be) and being divine, He is able to reconcile us to God and raise up us up to have union with God, as He promised at the Last Supper as He prayed. John 17:20-23. Christian orthodox teaching has stated that our Savior is equally human and divine because that is what was necessary for mankind to be fully redeemed to what God willed for us to become in Him.

Earl, I know that we will agree to disagree on this, but I do think that it is vital for believers to know correct doctrine, and I contend for the orthodox teachings of the church because it is important to refute heretical ideas. We cannot both be correct in this. If you are willing, you may want to study the various heresies rejected by the church over the centuries concerning the nature of Jesus Christ as to what the heretics taught about this topic, and what the church pointed out as the error in the heretics teaching.

Blessings, always.

Leland,

God has declared the end from the beginning, He is in total control and it is hard for us to grasp with our human minds. It is for His pleasure and His glory and His counsel shall stand Isaiah 46:10. It is beyond our understanding, like what God allowed Satan to do to Job. I was not blessed with children and I cannot pretend to know how I would feel if I lost every child I had, along with all I owned. Do we have that kind of faith? The times are coming for those who are living when the end of days begins, it will take that kind of faith.

God uses people good and bad to do His will. Look at Pharaoh, God raised him to do His will Exodus 9:16. God named King Cyrus of Persia by name before he is even born to serve Him, Isaiah 45, and more.

I feel Jesus answers this, God gave the disciples to Jesus, and Judas was given to fulfill scripture. God knew who he was and he is one of two who is called the son of perdition.

John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

God bless,

RLW

1 John 5:7-8, in context: 1 John 5:1-12, Romans 12:3-6, Ephesians 4:4-5, John 17:9-23, 1 Corinthians 12:12-14, Ephesians 1:8-11,

John 1:1-5, John 10:14-17, John 10:28-30,

Hopefully these are helpful in your study for truth & understanding.

Larry Hudson, Perhaps you are very aware of the scripture & The HOLY Spirit has revealed to you an amazing & important message. Isaiah 53, Psalms 22, Romans 11:7-36, Romans 1:16, Matthew 10:5-6, Matthew 15:24, John 8:1-58,

John 16:1-4, John 17:1-26, John 18:12-15,

Forgive our zeal for GOD's love for us. As adopted in, grafted in children. John 3:16,

Hello Walter. You wrote: "if someone is first and last all they are stating the(y) are the only one." If Jesus has stated this (as in Revelation 1:8; Revelation 12:13), could He actually be identifying completely with the One God, from Whom He once proceeded from, as the Word of God given flesh? 'Alpha & Omega' is a very strong loaded phrase that can only be denoted to God, to which the risen Jesus Who sits at the right Hand of God, makes claim to ( Colossians 3:1; Hebrews 10:12; 1 Peter 3:22). If the 'only one God now is Jesus', what happened to the Father, Whom Jesus sits beside? Jesus not only prayed to His Father whilst He walked on Earth, but now reigns with Him ( Revelation 3:21; Revelation 7:10).

Good observation Walter.

What you are saying is When Paul asked Who are thou Lord he was addressing the Lord he was taught in Judaism, When Jesus answered he realized that The Lord he was addressing IS the Lord of Judaism and He's Jesus. Am I correct?

God bless.

Sister GiGi:

John 17:21 That they ALL MAY BE ONE, as thou Father art in me, and I in thee, that they may all be one in us ....

This says that whatever and however the Father and Son have existed since the beginning, is the way we will also exist, in them, forever.

Colossians 1:19 For it please the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Ephesians 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth ALL in ALL.

You can have the doctrines of man, I will take the doctrines of WORD.

Walter,

You are espousing a Oneness Doctrine that denies the Triune nature of God and promotes what as been known as Modalism over the centuries. This teaching has been deemed heresy throughout church history. It is refuted by Scripture as all three persons of the the Godhead presented themselves at Jesus' baptism and Jesus instructed the apostles to baptize in the name each of the Persons of the Godhead.

People are free to believe and say what they understand to be true. But, likewise, we are free to refute wat we think is false teaching. I suggest that you google "Modalism" to learn more about why I am saying this.

In His Love,

In order to understand God completely we must be born again. The scriptures say no man can say that Jesus is Lord without the Holy Spirit - meaning everyone without the Holy Spirit can not understand who God is! Take the Apostles Paul; he killed many of the original saints and thought he was doing God's work however on the road of Damascus, a great light shine and Paul (Saul was his name at that time) ask who are thou Lord; the Lord he was referencing was the one, he supposing was serving (Jehovah of the Old Testament); the Lord (to the Israelites there is but one God, hence the reason they have not really excepted Jesus as Lord.

In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God- the Word was God! The Word became flesh (Jesus Christ) and dwelt among us. Read John 1:1-14

The bottom line God said I am alpha and omega (first and last) it is natural for us not to understand how someone can be first and last but spiritually we are able to discern if someone is first and last all they are stating the are the only one.

Jesus was God manifest (clearly shown) in the flesh, there are three manifestation of God but there is only one God and his name is Jesus!

The Father and the Son are 2 distinct beings as the Son prays to his Father and the Father tells the world this is my beloveth Son , This Father and Son relationship is unbreakable , If they were the same identical being that wd make the Father a liar. Ya gotta realise the FATHER neva died only the son died, But only his body died his Spirit neva died ,thus he commended his Spirit back to his Father's hands the lil ones ,I will turn my hands to the lil ones ,When a seed dies it multiplies But as Jesus said if a seed dies it will bring forth much fruit, had he not died there wd have been only 1 Christ but b/c of his death he will be multiplied as the stars of heaven, lil ones imply multiplication . Smite the shepard and the sheep will be scattered THEN I WILL TURN MY HAND TO THE LIL ONES . That was the great Promise that Christ wd be multiplied as the stars of heaven ,When a seed dies it multiplies and this multiplication implies every one is gonna see him , The field is the world thus the world is gonna birth a baby Christ The Granson Thus everybody is gonna see him, Whosoever receiveth one such Child in my name receiveth me. Jeremiah 30 : 6 The world is in travail and birth pains .

The very fact that we have a Father and a Son begs the question of a Granson and equally important AN ISRAEL OF GOD , A heavenly Jacob. Thats y the new birth is so important its the means by which Christ will be multiplied in humanity as the stars of heaven ( by his Seed the words of the new covenant ) Without this Abrahamic Trinity there wd have neva been a nation of ISRAEL . likewise without the heavenly trinity there cannot be an Israel of God via the seed of Christ that are gonna be as the stars of heaven. Remember that great Promise that Christ wd be multiplied as the stars of heaven,Thats y the Sower will go forth to sow his precious seed the living word in humanity. That we might be bornagain of his incorruptible seed. Thus an ISRAEL OF GOD.

Brother Dan.

My view on John 3:5.

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. "Born of water" This has nothing to do with baptism by water. If this baptism have anything to do with this section of scripture it would be in verse 6 where Jesus says "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirt. Romans 6:4. The water mentioned here I believe is the word of God!

John 17:17. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. " The cleansing sanctifying power of the word!"

John 15:3. Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

Hebrews 4:12. The word is alive!! A person must be born again by the use of the scripture and its the Holyspirit taking the scripture and using it. I've heard it put like this, You have Spirit of God using the word of God through the man of God.

Verse 11: Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We "SPEAK" that we do know, and "TESTIFY" that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

It takes the spirit of God to be obedient to the word of God. It takes the spirit of God to receive the word of God. And it take the word of God to receive the spirit of God through baptism of the Holyspirit.

I haven't heard one person on this site said they wasn't baptized, So why quarrel about obedience in that regard? But many of us say it wasn't to add to what Christ done on the cross. Is that disobedience? If you believe keeping some ritual or commandments is your way to salvation, What does the cross mean to you? Christ wasn't sacrificed "JUST IN CASE YOU FALL SHORT" He was sacrificed because you couldn't. He paid the penalty BECAUSE YOU ARE ALL READY GUILTY.

God bless.

Seeking, sitting at the right hand of the Father represents that Christ is the body that does all things the Father shows him to DO.

There is only one throne:

Revelation 3:21 He that overcometh will I (Christ) grant to sit with me (Christ) on my throne, even as I (Christ) overcame, an am set down with my Father own his throne.

John 17:21 That they all may be ONE, as thou, Father, art in me, and I in you, that they also may be ONE in us: that the world may believe that thou has sent me.

I really don't understand what you are saying, selah is a word, there is letters numbers and words. Why are you trying to confused people. don't think it's more wiser to tell people the meaning of the word selah. Don't think it's better to let people be there own individual who God has made. If the writer of the old testament, see it fit to put it there who are you to decide that you should not use it or it should not be there or it is not a word. The Bible said holy men move as God gives them utterance. The reason why the church is in the place that it is today. It is because everybody want to rewrite over the word of God God give no man that authority, the Bible said do not add to his word neither take away from his word. Rev.22:18.. God resist the proud and he give more grace to the humble, James4:6 too much proud man and woman is on pulpit, and taking people to hell. God is the same yesterday today and forever more. Enough is enough we need to get back to the true and living God, his word is truth. Sanctify them through your truth, his word is truth. John 17:17 his true shall be my shield and buckle. Psalm 91: 4 God bless all