Discuss John 17 Page 12

Hi Jesse. I do agree, as we see in Mark 1:41-45, that the people thronged Him & probably for the wrong reasons & this forced Jesus to withdraw from them & pursue the Father's Will in His Way & His Timing.

I also see the oft used phrase, "My hour is not yet come" (as seen in John 2:1-5: Wedding at Cana; John 7:1-9: when urged to present Himself; John 7:25-30 & John 8:20: when about to be arrested). It seems that all Jesus' miracles, His talks, even the places He went to, were directed by His Father according to the Plan laid out for Him. The Plan being, that certain things had to happen (not sooner or later) for the duration of those 33 years He lived on Earth. Even though He was encouraged by His Mother, brethren & disciples to do more miracles or take advantage of the crowds that gathered, Jesus knew that the time appointed to Him would be violated by doing so & that all that was necessary for Him to do during those years were foreordained for a reason. And so He could finally exclaim: "that His hour had come" ( Mark 14:41, John 17:1) when He knew that His Work on Earth was nearing completion, culminating at the Cross.

I wonder whether by making Himself more prominent or proving Himself as the Messiah in a greater more dynamic way, would have thwarted the Plan of God for His Life (from the cradle to the cross) and therefore would fail to bring on the full & proper results as the Father had ordained. Just a few thoughts to add to yours, Jesse.

Hi Bob,

Obviously you took my post incorrectly. I'll try using Scriptures again.

I never said Christ and the Father was not a relationship. You brought this up. I never said Christ is the Father or the Father is Christ as it seems you took it. I know it's a Father Son relationship. Again John 10:30, John 14:11, John 17:21. Revelation 3:21. For a couple.

Some say the Father being in Christ means He left Heaven. God spoke from Heaven several times proving that false. Matthew 3:17, Matthew 17:5, John 12:28.

Here are a couple stating the Spirit of Truth or Holy Ghost as He/Him: John 14:17, John 14:26. Putting the three in ONE as in 1 John 5:7.

As I've been trying to answer your questions though you seemed to have veered from mine. No one knows the depths and ways of God. He can do anything He wants. Isaiah 40:28, Isaiah 55:8-9. Just like giving all His power and authority to His Son so we honor Him just as we honor the Father. Matthew 28:18, John 5:22-23. Not knowing your beliefs on this but no one can say Christ did not exist before He was born here. Christ Himself stated this and there are other Scriptures that back this up also. John 17:4-5. All I do is use the Scriptures. I have no private interpretation as that is not what the Scriptures are for. 2 Peter 1:20.

Nothing is falling apart for me. I've given you many Scriptural verses as I have not seen one from you. Also I really don't even know your motive for making the first post the other night. The reason I made the reply is because you said something about a "man made trinity doctrine". Which I showed you is not man made it's Biblical.

Still not getting into how many titles the Father and Son share. Not knowing if it would make any difference to you.

I'm not here to argue and don't take my post that way please. You may have your own view.

Again as I hope I've answered your questions. I'll just leave the one again.

Do you believe the Scriptures I've posted?

Thank you. God Bless.

Hi James. You said, "The Word is not a person. The Word is the word. A 5 year old can understand this. God put his words in the mouth of a man. This is how the Word (the Word of God) was made flesh."

As you know, the Word of God was put into many men over the ages. Moses, David, Isaiah, Jeremiah, the prophets, & many others. Was this Word from God also made flesh in them as well? If so, of what importance, relevance or accuracy would this interpretation be? We are never told that the Word became flesh to any of these men: they were just men chosen by God to bring forth His Word to His people. As far as I can discern, the messages that came to them to be given to the people, were simply God's Word for Israel's obedience, knowledge & instruction - there was no reconstruction of that Word into a fleshly form - it was just an echo of God's direct Word to them.

But when Jesus came on the scene, He didn't just echo God's Word to Israel, but He was the Word of God - He wasn't just a Proclaimer but the Word was His Character. If this were not so, He would have been just as all the other prophets in the past (no different, no better). But Hebrews 1:1-3 tells us that this Prophet was different in His Birth ('express Image of God'), in His Glory ('the brightness of God's Glory'), in His creative Work ('made the worlds & upholds all things by His Power'), in His Sacrifice ('purging our sins'), in His return to His Glory, John 17:5 ('at the right Hand of God').

If you see this Jesus & believe that He was just another Prophet or a godly Man chosen of God, how does God's Word brought out through flesh have any relevance on God's Word made flesh? The former was given by man inspired by God. The latter was done by God sent out from within Himself, so that His Word would become flesh (man) for our sakes, which no other prophet could ever do. This separated Jesus from all others. John 1:14: "..the only begotten (unique, one of a kind) of the Father...".

Just feeling to reply to this. Not really wanting to.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the FATHER, and of the SON, and of the HOLY GHOST:

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the FATHER, the WORD, and the HOLY GHOST: and these THREE are ONE.

Revelation 19:11-14 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and He that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He doth judge and make war.

His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns; and He had a name written, that no man knew, but He Himself.

And He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and His name is called The WORD of GOD.

One definition from "Logos" or "Word" in Greek. In John, denotes the essential Word of God, Jesus Christ, the personal wisdom and power in union with God, his minister in creation and government of the universe, the cause of all the world's life both physical and ethical, which for the procurement of man's salvation put on human nature in the person of Jesus the Messiah, the second person in the Godhead, and shone forth conspicuously from His words and deeds. A Greek philosopher named Heraclitus first used the term Logos around 600 B.C. to designate the divine reason or plan which coordinates a changing universe. This word was well suited to John's purpose in John 1.

John 17:3-5 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

If you can't believe in Scripture that Jesus Christ Himself says He existed before the world was. Just one place. I can't help you.

Jesus Christ did exist before He was born. Other Scriptures state this also.

God Bless.

Hallelujah

Am so blessed for you

There are numerous ways that God uses to "equip and prepare us" according to what the Lord Jesus prayed for.

At the base of all spiritual living & work, lies Christ's fully accomplished work on the Cross. And after successfully providing redemption & defeating the power of Satan to all who would believe, Jesus sent to us His Spirit to confirm, seal & establish our hearts in this new life.

So with the basis of the Cross & the Gift of the Holy Spirit, God's children are being prepared for higher service & a part of that preparation is the "equipping of the saints". Those believers who remain obstinate to the Spirit's urging, never grow spiritually, never receive the abundance of Heaven, & never impact others with Christ's Love.

The Spirit gives us much so that the Purposes of God are accomplished in the believer, in the Church & in the World. He has blessed us with those with particular Gifts for the building up of Christ's Church & to use to bless others. The power of the Gospel to the unsaved is found both in the power of God's Word & by the testimony of those so changed by it. The depth & richness from the Word comes from the Holy Spirit & in those whom He fills with such knowledge so that our knowledge might also increase. And not to mention the burden of praying saints, those giving of their substance, their time, their energies, & those who would get beside those under weight of some sin or temptation, all speak of the life-giving power of God to bring about His Purposes & blessings to others.

As Jesus prayed, "I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me." John 17:23: to the end that the Church may be found 'unified with the Godhead in perfection'. And this was the desire of the apostles: Jude 24; Ephesians 5:27; Colossians 1:27,28; Romans 12:1: that in the Day of Presentation, the God's people might stand pure, holy, & unashamed.

How did Jesus equip and prepare us to fulfill His vision in John 17:5-26

"Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee." John 17:7.

As you have read, this Scripture portion is Christ's prayer to God His Father (often called Jesus' High Priestly Prayer). This prayer shows His Glory (vv 1-5), His love for His disciples (vv 6-19), & love for all who would belong to Him (vv 20-26).

So we see this Jesus, Who enjoyed the Glory of God even before creation, now declares to His Father that He has faithfully brought God's Truths of Himself & the Kingdom of Heaven to His disciples. These disciples have "kept Thy Word' & do understand that all that He has declared to them have come from God. Jesus only spoke the words to His disciples that were given to Him by God and they received them & know for sure that Jesus came out of God (out of God's Being or Essence) & believe that God had sent Him to them & the world (v 8).

Therefore, to answer your question: the Word of God (i.e. Divinely inspired messages), the Power of God (i.e. seen in Jesus' miracles, power over the devil, etc.), & the Wisdom of God (i.e. to know how to live that God-ordered, God-centred life which far surpassed the erroneous teaching of the Jewish religious leaders), would be what Jesus received of the Father to share with His disciples. And these disciples were then to take all that they learned from their Master, to the world (v 18-23).

Jeanette, may the Spirit grace you with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, SOLD under sin.

We were naturally born flesh and blood; but a body of flesh and blood cannot obtain the spiritual world (the likeness of Christ). Christ came in the likeness of us (sinful flesh) to REDEEM (exchange our body of flesh for his body of GLORY or a glorified body).

Romans 8:6 To be carnally minded (unbelief) is DEATH; but to be spiritually minded (believing) is life (you never die you just change bodies; you are glorified with Christ, you are REDEEMED.

John 17:21-22

All this was made possible by HIS WORK ON THE CROSS AND HIS RESURRECTION. He was made like you so that you and him could die together and you and him could be resurrected together; now in THE LIKENESS OF CHRIST to live a life without sin (love God above all and your brothers and enemies as yourself)

Romans 8:29

God did not make death, proof by Jesus stated "before the world was", Saint John 17:3-5, proof by His resurrection-ascension into heaven, Saint Luke 24:51-53, eye witnessed, 1 Corinthians 15:6, is clear proof of the Holy source of life & everyone's salvation forevermore.

My comments addressed all the godless humanist "ISM's - among which, ZIONISM, 1896, and NOT the book of Genesis, which is also God's living Word prophesying the coming of Christ Jesus Messiah Lord God Savior Redeemer in GENESIS 3:15, KJV, where Christ is referred to as THE SEED OF WOMAN, and not as "descendant" or "offspring" that begs focus and concentration on carnal biological genealogical flesh lineage that contradicts God's Word in the Book of John that we are BORN OF GOD and that THE FLESH IS OF NO AVAIL ( JOHN 1: 1-18; JOHN 3:16; JOHN 6:63; JOHN 17:3; HEBREWS 8:13; HEBREWS 13:8; REVELATION 1:7; REVELATION 20, 21, 22, KJV 1611, HOLY BIBLE). ***

John 17:5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

When he was returned to his Glory he addresses his self the way he did in the old testament.

Isaiah 9:6(KJV) For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, (((THE MIGHTY GOD, THE EVERLASTING FATHER, THE PRINCE OF PEACE ))).

Can someone tell me why is the SON called the everlasting FATHER inIsaiah 9:6??

Look at the opening of Revelation 1:1.

( The Revelation of Jesus Christ.)

""The unveiling "" The climatic declaration of who he is.

Look how he declares himself to John.

Revelation 1:8I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, ((THE ALMIGHTY!!))

Here is how Almighty is defined in Revelation:

Greek:

Transliteration: pantokratr

Pronunciation: pan-tok-rat'-ore

Definition: From G3956 and G2904; the all ruling that is God (as absolute and universal sovereign): - Almighty Omnipotent.

KJV Usage: Almighty(9x), omnipotent(1x).

Occurs: 10

In verses: 10

"" ME AND MY FATHER ARE ONE""

Amen.

Praise the Lord!

Revelation 13:8

King James Version

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Does this mean there was a lamb up in heaven with it's throat slit before God said, "let there be light." ?

Of course not.

John 17:5

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

As you said, of a truth, all Christians (born again of the word 1Peter 1:23/ John 3:3 and baptized in Jesus' name and filled with His Spirit John 3:5/ Acts 2:38)

had glory with the Father before the world was. Does this mean we were physically or spiritually there with the Father in heaven? Of course not.

The term "pre-existent" is an oxymoron.

Noone has ever pre-existed oneself.

If only people would (as your name suggests) read their bible, and stop listening to deceived men (theologians/ lying "pastors") they would be free indeed - John 8:31-32.

Isaiah 46:10

Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

It was over before it began.

Hallelujah!

As no one person is exactly the same as another. Just as well there is many different beliefs to interpreting the Scriptures. Which is said to have no private interpretation. ( 2 Peter 1:20-21.

As this has been discussed before I will put my portion. I do not say Jesus Christ is God the Father. He is the only begotten Son of God. Though He was more than just a "sinless" man. He was part man part God. Born of a virgin who was conceived by the Holy Ghost ( Matthew 1:20, Luke 1:30-35. Even at age twelve He astonished people who heard Him. He knew God was His Father then Luke 2:47-49. To me showing He did not just receive the Holy Ghost(Spirit of God) at His water baptism in the Jordan. If the sign of the Spirit descending from Heaven like a dove was for just a sign for John or for His supernatural powers only God knows. John 1:32-34.

If some think that believing Jesus Christ is more that just a man is taking something away from the Father. God wants us to honor His Son as He is the only way to the Father. Scriptures pointing to Him being more than "just" a man John 3:12-13, John 3:33-35, John 3:38, John 8:54-58, John 17:3-5, Colossians 1:12-20, Hebrews 1:1-4.

Also titles Jesus Christ, the Son of God, uses like Alpha and Omega(first and last) in the beginning of Revelation. The Lamb of God, Jesus Christ, being King of kings and Lord of Lords Revelation 17:14. Also the Word of God and King of kings and Lord of lords given to the man riding the white horse out of Heaven. I believe is Jesus Christ.

Besides all of the miracles He performed. Him being transfigured on the mountain Matthew 17:2.

There is one True Holy Living Almighty God. Saying the Father, Word, and Holy Ghost are one. Also as how many verses I have that state the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of God, and the Holy Ghost are in us after being saved. To me showing Jesus Christ is the Word of God and one with God and the Holy Ghost.

Praise be to our Lord Jesus Christ and our Father in Heaven.

Hebrews 6:1-6. John 17:1-31. 1 John 2:1-2. 1 John 5:18. 2 John 9 3 John 11

God shall never allow His Son to be crucified afresh...

Matt 12:30...

To OTITW KJV. Just to clarify a couple of your references.

a. Isaiah 28:11,12: "For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing..." If you read this portion of Scripture, it has nothing to do with the experience of speaking in other tongues. It has to do with the Assyrian captivity, when Ephraim (one of Joseph's sons) is particularly mentioned who would go into captivity along with Israel, because of their many sins & wicked prophets & priests. Instead of hearing the Word of God through His prophets, they would receive the Word from those "with stammering lips & another tongue", i.e. another nation & another language, implying that the Word given would also be spoken in scorn & derision to God's people. This verse has nothing to do with the spiritual gift of Tongues.

b. the 'doctrine of the Trinity'. You would have a hard time to deny the Trinity, as it was not only believed by the apostles & the early Church ( John 17:5, Matthew 28:19, John 20:28, etc), but was also believed by the early Church fathers (i.e. those who were eminent men in the post-apostolic Church, after the apostle John). Names such as Ignatius ("For our God, Jesus the Christ, was conceived by Mary according to God's plan..."; "There is only one physician, who is both flesh and spirit, born and unborn, God in man, true life in death, both from Mary and from God, first subject to suffering and then beyond it, Jesus Christ our Lord."). And Polycarp ("Now may the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the eternal High Priest himself, the Son of God Jesus Christ, build you up in faith and truth...and to all those under heaven who will yet believe in our Lord and God Jesus Christ and in his Father who raised him from the dead."). And not to mention Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Hippolytus, Origen, who all believed it. This is not an RC introduced belief.

REVELATION 15

May the Spirit grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS knowledge.

Revelation is about the kingdom of heaven, CHRIST IN YOU AND YOU IN CHRIST.

Ephesians 2:15

Luke 17:21

Colossians 1:27

This chapter is a vision of the finished work of the cross.

Revelation 15:1 ....having the seven last plagues, in them (plagues) is filled up the wrath of God.

These plagues had to be fulfilled before the kingdom of heaven is possible.

(vs 2) The sea is symbolic of people ( Revelation 17:15) the fire is symbolic of Christ ( Hebrews 12:29) these have become one with Christ ( John 17:21)( Ephesians 2:15).

(vs 3-4) The praises to God for their salvation.

(vs 5) Access to the temple is near. The temple is symbolic of Christ. Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up ( John 2:19)

(vs 6-7) The wrath of God is now ready to be poured out.

(vs 8) .....no man is able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels be fulfilled.

Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him...

THE WRATH OF GOD WAS POURED OUT ON CHRIST, the last plague being death; now we can enter the temple (CHRIST IN YOU AND YOU IN CHRIST) Christ has become our PASSOVER LAMB, death has passed over us.

Hebrews 11:5 By FAITH Enoch was TRANSLATED that he should not see death .....

Colossians 1:13 .... and hath TRANSLATED us into the kingdom of his dear Son

Everyone & all the universe is Christian, proof by Jesus said "before the world was", Saint John 17:3-5, proof by His resurrection-ascension into heaven, eye witnessed, Saint Luke 24:51-53, is clear proof of the Holy source of life & everyone's salvation forevermore.

GOD did not make death, only "Love thy neighbor as thyself, 10 Commandments "Moses wrote of me" Saint John 5:46, & the Lord's Prayer, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven", proof by resurrected-ascent into heaven Son Jesus to live forever, eye witnessed, Saint Luke 24:51-53, is the same for "born again" Christians, Saint John 3:3-9.

Dear Fred,

The Holy Spirit is God the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ, the one true God ( John 17:3). You will know you have received the gift of the Holy Spirit when you speak in an unknown tongue and are filled with power to overcome sin by walking after the Spirit and not after the flesh.

As to the issue of sin and God fixing it, He sent His son to die for our sins. Peter preached the new testament gospel (as the NT didn't begin until the day of Pentecost) in Jerusalem to many of the same Jews that crucified Jesus. This Gospel is: Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. - Acts 2:38

Hallelujah! This is how one's (past) sins are remitted (in baptism, calling on the name of Jesus Christ and not the titles F,S&HS) and how one can receive power to live in victory over sin (receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost).

I'm here for you if you have any questions.

Sincerely,

Andrew

Salvation (Part 3)

These scriptures show that believers cannot be taken away from Christ by the flesh, because the Spirit of God is dwelling within to prevent that from happening.

Jesus Himself said, as recorded in John 6:37, "All that the Father gives to me will come to me; and the one coming to me I will never cast out." He goes on to say, in John 6:39, "And this is the will of the Father who has sent me, in order that of all which he has given to me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up in the last day."

Also, in His prayer to the Father, as recorded in John 17:11-12, Jesus said, "And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep through your own name those whom you have given to me, in order that they may be one, as we are. When I was with them in the world, I was keeping them in your name; the ones who you have given to me I kept, and none of them perished, except the son of perdition; in order that the Scripture might be fulfilled."

I emphasize the permanency of salvation because the bible teaches that God is the one who saves and He does so from out of His mercy. According to Paul, in Ephesians 2:8, grace, faith, and salvation are gifted from God.

John says, in John 1:13, believers "were born, not from blood, nor from the will of the flesh, nor from the will of man, but from God." Therefore, according to Scripture, a human being cannot save him/herself.

We also know from Scripture that no one can keep himself saved. John teaches, in 1 John 5:18 (as recorded in the oldest Greek manuscripts), "We know that everyone who has been born from God does not practice sin; but the one who has been born from God, God is keeping him and the evil one does not touch him."

John 17 is the prayer that Jesus Christ spoke shortly before His arrest and crucifixion around 2000 years ago. How do I know? Because in verse 17:1 it states, "These words spake Jesus and lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said Father, the hour is come, glorify thy Son that thy Son also may glorify Thee." So Jesus, the core or central figure in Christianity is the one who is speaking in John 17 and while Jesus is his name in English we call Him Jesus Christ because the term "Christ" means "anointed" or "anointed one".

In Matthew 16:15-17 Jesus confirms He is the Christ, the Son of the living God.

If you were wondering more specifically about John 17:17 "Sanctify them through thy truth..." then Jesus Christ is still the answer for as it says in John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me:" So He was saying sanctify them through the truth (through Me) for I am the truth.

I hope this helps.

These are some other comments posted on THAT verse of scripture. I don't see anything referring to trees. See if you meant a different scripture?I've never run across anything saying the vegetation was revised by God because of giants.

Past Comments:

1 month ago by Modesto Olivo on John 17:17

In my local Sunday Bible class we are going over John 17: 14-24, KJV. The lesson is entitled, "Called As The Intercessor" Thats where I came across verse 17. And, as sometimes happens, the verse drew me to it. I'm writing because of something that was mentioned in your "People's Bible Notes." "The means of canonization is not a Pope, but the "truth." As a former Catholic i am glad to see you make that distinction. I think that's important, very important. Thank you, for taking the time to read my opinion.

6 years ago

Allen on John 17:17

This is a wonderful promise of Jesus for each one of us. Praying to be sanctified in His truth. I bow down before Him and praise Him now and forever more. Amen

6 years ago

Efffah on John 17:17

THIS IS THE WORD OF WE HAVE TO BELIEVE GOD AND RESPECT THE LAWS OF GOD AMEN

Hope this helps. The Bible Commentary on this website agrees too. Mishael

The waters were 15 cubits( approx 21 inches each) above the mountains. Genesis 7

Timothy,

The Flood lasted 5 months. No one, even a huge man who might climb a tree, could survive without food for 150 days.

"And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days." Gen 7:24

Did God send angels to earth to cut down the great trees prior to the flood to prevent the survival of the giants.

Who was speaking in John 17?

You could also cite the many Scriptures that speak of those who fell down & worshipped Jesus. And this was not people doing obeisance to a 'mighty Prophet of God', but in recognition that this Holy One came from God & to be worshipped as they would God.

A few Scriptures: Matthew 2:10,11 (the magi from the East before the Babe). Matthew 8:2 (by a Leper). Matthew 9:18. Matthew 14:33. John 9:36-38. Acts 10:25,26 (an account where Peter refused the worship of Cornelius).

I always pray to the Father, but I find no reason why I can't pray to the Lord Jesus & glorify & worship Him also.

A Friend of mine, told me he doesn't worship Jesus, he only worship the Father, the most high God, I said, they are one ,they can't be separated, it's like Water, Ice, steam, water you can't comprehend it(Father) , ice, it's solid, ( Jesus) you can touch it, and steam, ( Holy Spirit) 3 different functions, but all in divine unity as One purpose!

Paul, you made a comment stating: that in the gospel of Matthew they were still under the old testament because Christ had not yet gone to the cross.

Matthew 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN suffereth violence, and the violent shall take it by force. (Jesus suffered the violence)

Matthew 11:13 For all the prophets (old testament) and the law (old testament) prophesied UNTIL John.

Hebrews 1-2 .......Hath in these last days spoken by his Son....

Matthew 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of THE KINGDOM ....

Luke 10:9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS NIGH UNTO YOU.

JESUS IS THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN

John 17:21 That they ALL may be ONE; as thou, Father, art in ME, and I in THEE, that they also may be ONE in US......

Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ORDINANCES; for to make in HIMSELF of TWAIN ONE NEW MAN, so making peace.

1 Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality (LIFE) dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto, whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power, everlasting. Amen.

There were those that BELIEVED before Christ died on the cross they just didn't receive the Holy Spirit until pentecost.

We all read over thing in the scriptures or have been taught by others that have read over things in the scriptures. We all learn from each other; but always being taught by the SPIRIT.

The Spirits wisdom and understanding be on you.

O, what great Scriptures you've shared: John 17:5, Isaiah 9:6, Revelation 1:8.

What does one have to do to those portions to make it mean anything different than expressed so clearly here? How can Jesus dare say that He enjoyed God's Glory in Himself even before His Incarnation & indeed, before the creation of the worlds?

I think, many just have to make Him out to be a liar, as any normal reading of those Scriptures, shed great Light on a wonderful, glorious Truth. The fact that our salvation is real & secure is dependent on God coming in the flesh, by His Word - any other sacrifice would not cut it - we would still be in our sins, we would still need a yearly offering, & we would be in a desperate mental & spiritual state not knowing if we'll make it to Heaven. The fact that God has done it & given of Himself, gives us great joy & peace, & confidence in the Lord. It's all of Him - nothing of us. Praise be to Him alone.