Discuss John 17 Page 16

He is the risen son of god yahweh,king of kings,lord of lords first and last, he has the name above any name . jesus christ!

Jesus die for our sins,so that we might have a chance at the tree of life. Jesus knew all of what was expected of him; that's why God sent his only begotten son to do what the first Adam couldn't do. Jesus couldn't lie,that why no guile was found in his mouth. Jesus is the truth then and forever. We murdered him because of the truth. And we still don't want to be told the truth, because we have itchy ears. How is it that we accept lies why do hurt us and not the truth?

So Chris, with respect to your questions, listed below, I offer what follows.

A. Was Christ in God's initial Plan of creation? Titus 1:2, 2 Tim 1:9, Rom 8:17f, Eph 1:4, 3:10-11, Isa 44-48

B. Did God create man so Christ could come to save him from sin's penalty? Heb 10:5, Gal 3:16, Rom 11:36

C. Why create man? Did God of necessity have to create man? Heb 2, Gal 3:16

D. Does God support evil to accomplish His Plan? Rom 9:22-24

E. And what about Satan? Did God put him in the Garden to tempt man? Genesis 2, Job 1:12, Matt 4:1, Lk 4:2

To A: I don't think anyone can argue that Christ was not in the initial Plan of creation, given Jesus created all things. Titus 1:2 and 2 Tim 1:9 are unequivocal. The Plan of Redemption was drawn up before anything was created. We can legitimately conclude from that, that the coming of Christ in a human body ( Heb 10:5), was intentional. Redemption was not offered in reaction to the Fall. Jesus prayed to the Father to, "glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed". 1 John 5:20, John 1:18.

If all things were created for the sake of Jesus ( Col 1:16), doesn't it seem obvious that Jesus was part of the Plan of Creation? There is no indication in Scripture that Jesus was an afterthought? In these verses, we are told that Christ's incarnation was in the original blueprints, before mankind was created. Acts 2:23 Eph 1:4.

What did Jesus mean when He stated in John 8:58, "Before Abraham existed, I Am"? Keep in mind that it is Jesus speaking. Was He simply saying He is God? Or was He saying He as Savior existed before creation? That is, Christ existed. Not Jehovah existed. Christ existed and He is God. John 1 attests to that. In John 17:24 Jesus says God loved Him before creation. Loved who? God loved God? No. God loved Jesus, the Savior.

Rev 13:8, 17:8 also reveal that prior to the Fall, the names of the saved were written in the Book of Life. What's up with that? Jesus came before the Fall.

The Man of Sin

12 - The man of sin is called 'the son of perdition' ( 2 Thessalonians 2:3). Judas was the only other person to be called this.

13 - The man of sin 'sits in the temple of God professing to be like God' ( 2 Thessalonians 2:4). Meaning the man of sin sits in a leadership position in 'the professed church' acting like he is god.

There is only one man who matches this description perfectly, and that is the pope(s) of the Papal Church of Rome. 12 - Judas was also called 'the son of perdition' ( John 17:12). So calling the man of sin by this name also, means the man of sin would be like Judas - A DECEIVER FROM WITHIN THE CHURCH. 13 - The pope(s) sit in the Roman Catholic Church acting like he is god on earth giving out indulgences to forgive sins, which only our Heavenly Father can do and being called 'holy father', a title which only our Heavenly Father has ( Mark 10:18).

'Antichrists' in 1 John

14 - John confirms in 1 John 2 that those who were antichrists professed to be followers of Jesus, but 'went out' from the TRUE church and revealed themselves to not be true followers of the Lord.

14 - The leaders of the Roman Catholic Church profess to be followers of Jesus, but they have made manifest that they 'went out from' the TRUE church and it's true original teachings to follow after heresy and Pagan traditions.

Papal Rome is the beast, and anti christ I will let them tell you themseves.

The word "anti" in antichrist does not mean someone who is going to be openly anti (against) Christ. That word "anti" in the original Bible language can actually mean "IN PLACE OF". So could the bible antichrist be someone who has actually put himself "in place of" Christ? Well, we have further Bible evidence to support this. In 1 John 2:18-19 it says that there were "many antichrists", who "WENT OUT FROM THE CHURCH". In other words, John is pointing to the fact that those "antichrists" were WITHIN THE CHURCH!! Not only that, but Paul in 2 Thess. 2:3-4 calls the man of sin the "son of perdition". Now there is only one other place in the Bible where the name "son of perdition" is used, and that is in John 17:12 talking about JUDAS! And what was Judas? A professing follower of Christ Jesus. Someone who deceived from WITHIN the "church".

"The leader of the Catholic church is defined by the faith as the Vicar of Jesus Christ (and is accepted as such by believers). The Pope is considered the man on earth who TAKES THE PLACE of the Second Person of the omnipotent God of the Trinity." (John Paul II, Crossing the Threshold of Hope, p. 3, 1994).

"ANTI" - Christ = "IN PLACE OF" Christ!

I just read your comment. God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world and received into glory. God did this all by Himself. God was manifest( made visible in the flesh of Jesus Christ). He is the Father of creation, the Son ( his flesh) in redemption; and the Holy Ghost in the church. The idea of a triune Godhead is not found in the Bible. Read Isaiah 9:6; Isaiah 43:10-13; St. John 1:1-14; St. John 17:6; St. John 8:21-24; St. John 14:9-10; Luke 24:44; Colossians 1: 13-16; Hebrew 1:1-4; I John 1:1-3; Revelation 1:13-20; Revelation chapter 5. These are only a few of the scripture that validate the Oneness of God. God has many names and many attributes. He appeared in many theophanic forms in the Bible. But His greatest revelation to man was as the Man Christ Jesus. Jesus is His Saving Name. Jesus is God. God is Jesus. From Genesis to Revelation, there has only been one God, One Spirit, and One Savior. Ephesians 4:4-5 tells us that there is one Lord, one faith, and one baptism. One God and Father of all...God does not have three personalities in His head. God is our savior; and He loved us so much that He was willing to die for us and rise again for our salvation. What an awesome God that we serve!

(Part 4) John 17:11-12 also shows the keeping power of God. I believe in the permanency of salvation because the bible teaches that God is the one who saves and He does so from out of His mercy. According to Paul, in Ephesians 2:8, grace, faith, and salvation are gifted from God.

John says, in John 1:13, believers "were born, not from blood, nor from the will of the flesh, nor from the will of man, but from God." Therefore, from Scripture, a human being cannot save him/herself.I can't keep myself saved, so I have to trust God's power to keep me. John 10:27-29 is one of the most beautiful pieces of scripture that shows me that I am secure in Christ.

Also, Jude states in his doxology in Verse 24, "But to the one being able to keep you without stumbling and to set you before His glory blameless in exultation." Paul emphasized the keeping power of God's Spirit Ephesians 1:13-14, Ephesians 4:30.

Sorry this is long, but salvation is very important to me. One more post, I promise!

I agree with you, Juphil. God is not three in one. He has always been and will always be One. Throughout the Bible, God has presented himself as One. ( I Timothy 3:16; Isaiah 43:10; Revelation 1:13; Revelation Chapter 5,etc) In fact, He has said if there was another God--He did not him( Isaiah 43:11) When God created man, there was only one other being that possessed His image and likeness--angels. While the Bible says that God counsels Himself, There was no Trinity Present in Creation. In the beginning, was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. God cannot be separated from his Word--the same way we cannot be separated from our words. Our words define who we are. God gave dominion to mankind. Therefore, man is responsible for the mess that man has created. Perhaps one of the greatest commandments was "Hear o Israel the Lord our God is one Lord. Jesus is God in human form. Jesus said "I have manifested thy name ( John 17:6) Jesus is not God Jr; He is exclusively God.

I am a Christian .., I Follow my Lord Jesus but this particular verse may confuse people : the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ is separate not one person . This verse really spoke to me .

John 17:9 I (Jesus) pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
1 John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

Bob Hilt you are right. Check this out; Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel." Notice he didn't say God's gospel. HIS gospel? Acts 16:28-31, Paul has the opportunity to tell this man what it takes to be save. Luke 18:18-25. Jesus has the opportunity to tell this man. Hey wait until they kill me and believe on my blood and you shall be save. Paul teaching is difference from Jesus Christ. God greater then Jesus! St John 14:28 Rom 8:11and St John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing- Rev22:12-14 St John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do." Psalm 72:17-18 Read and compare. Ty

John of the ghetto I would tend to disagree with your statement of JESUS'S not returning to earth Zechariah Ch 14 V 4 clearly states HIS feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of olives in regards to the day of the LORD. Also JESUS spoke clearly of HIS return and to watch for it. Respectivley in JESUS name and Love.

I don't think I read it and believe it in the bible about perfection. Not going to debate over something that is written for thousands of years in pure black and white. Not going to call Jesus a liar. When Jesus said we can be perfect I believe nothing to debate and argue over as he was not loaded with demons preaching a false gospel. Jesus was talking to humans not to animals or birds. John 17:23

I am blessed to know that God's word says: And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

A wonderful Book and chapter 9---Amen, God bless.

Hebrews Chapter 9 KJB and of course Yeshua never sinned. He iz the Living God.

Christ was NEVER a sinner. He took on all our sins and gave us salvation from the cross. we will all die in the flesh, but the second death is the death of the soul. Those that don't look for Him may be judged to the lake of fire. Christ will take all souls to paradise to await the Great White Throne judgement. Those who believe will go into Eternity--others will be given God's judgement.

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgement: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Behold, he cometh with clouds and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

What does separate us from God ,but our unbelief! Your person,who you are, this love, God wants us to acknowledge in Him. What separates us from that knowledge is any word not His.Let none deceive you through vain philosophy. Christ , our redeemer was with His father before creation, with the sole intent to do his fathers will. No ordinary man could do what he has done! Grow ,read his word !

Kindly read John 15:1-6. Jesus says He is the true vine and we are the branches. The branches that bare fruit a retained whereas them that bare not are cut off. Baring fruit is keeping the faith of Jesus and keeping his commandments Rev 14:12. Not baring fruit is the opposite, which most of the Jews did, they believed not whom God had sent which equates to eternal life John 17:3 and hence cut off.

1-26 disregarding the moment or hour quickly approaching Jesus notice how Jesus is very focused on eternity with the FATHER for those of us who will enter in the Kingdom of GOD, thereby we shall be at the The Marriage Supper Of the LAMB , Rev 19:7,8,9.

Wendell Briggs, Judas Iscariot went to his own place, his eternal hell. Acts 1:25 Mark 14:21 John 17:12 Matthew 26:24. We choose our own place in this world. We choose our own place in eternity. Judas Iscariot betrayed our Lord Jesus Christ, for thirty pieces of silver.

979 Instances The Holy Spirit is in the bible also. The Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit is the same thing. Some of the bible writers used one and others used the other.

verse 4 pointed out that friendship with the world is making himself an enemy of god..why?because the whole world is under the control of satan and his allies using religions,politics and commerce to impose traditions, customs and occassions.It is now clear that the enemy of god participates or involves in traditions customs and occassions. 1john 2:15-17, john 17:14-16, john 15:19

verses 31-34 is clear that in the last day of the wicked system of things,almighty god has already written his words to the heart and mind of those whom he shows mercy and no need for them to teach because they refused to receives the mark of "666" and their lives based in 1john 2:15-17, john 17:14-16 and john 15:19..in this world but not part of it... 1kings 19 18

There are 93 verses that speak of the HOLY GHOST in he New Testament. Those who change the word GHOST to spirit will fail to understand the work of the SON of GOD after HIS crucifixion.

Considered this "word"? > 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; > OR? 1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. > John 17:25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.

The prayer of Jesus, deeply felt love, lost in love, fearless. Jesus ain't coming back to earth, and why would he? There is no real fairh here, only deception, cruelty, fake faith. But God, the Father, Jesus' Father doesn't change, doesn't age toward death! He has no beginning, nor ending. He desires true words of devotion, faith and TRUTH! What is Truth? Oh ruler of Jerusalem, wash clean!!!!

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. John 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him;