Discuss John 17 Page 7

Hi Gigi.

Actually i think it fits well.

Adam asked, Direct Quote: "My question is: do you believe Jesus as the Son of God has any % of God the Father in Him? If so, what %?"

Now we who believe Christ has no beginning, we're in contrast with those who believe Jesus BECAME a son at the birth of Mary.

Here in 1 Corinthians 15:28. Paul states "THAT GOD MAY BE ALL IN ALL." This emphasizes CHRIST/EMANUEL/GOD WITH US is returning to his Glory he had with the Father before the beginning of the world! It echoes this;

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. John 17:5.

( O FATHER, GLORIFY THOU ME WITH THINE OWN SELF ) Is an amazing statement! We know God shares his Glory with NO MAN! 100% God!

1 Corinthians 15:28. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that GOD MAY BE ALL IN ALL. suggests Christ is a 100% of God.

God bless.

John 13 and Predestination

This chapter; and the following are part of a private discourse between Christ and the 12 Disciples and demonstrate what has been prophesied in both veiled and now clear language as to what would happen to Christ; who whould betray Him; and once again God's inseparable relation to Christ when He is glorified as well as His elect (or chosen as stated in verse 18).

It is clear that Judas Iscariot was also called AND chosen for the evil betrayal; which was prophesied in Psalm 41:9. This verse ALSO shows how Judas was a "close friend who He trusted". There was pain because of the betrayal for this reason despite the inevitability of it Jesus gave him the sop which was traditionally given to a guest of honor. (Verse 26). This is why we cannot make election or predestination a mere intellectual concept. If Christ could love someone who was to be the "son of perdition" ( John 17:2) then who are we to not love our enemies; and pray for those who despitefully use us? ( Matt. 5:44).

We also need to see how Jesus loved His own unto the end (verse 1). Jesus surely had other things that could preoccupy Him after the Passover meal. Instead; He decided to reassure His disciples who still didn't get much of what He was saying. Verse 36 was the first hint that Peter would be restored after his fall into denial of Christ. He would die eventually and be with Christ. Here; he showed how being a servant was paramount in being a Godly example.

This was the culmination of what He had been saying for the last few years; and in a a few short days it would finally be clear to the Disciples what these concepts meant. Since all but one of the 12 would be martyred eventually; they had to strip themselves of any self reliance and follow the Master's footsteps. Divine help through the Spirit for all these things would soon arrive at Pentecost.

Amen, "Grae":

The Holy Spirit has given you great insight to his word.

Our knowledge of God never ceases to grow as we spend time in his word.

1 Corinthians 2:9 ...eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither hath entered into the heart of man, the things God hath prepare for them that love him.

Job 38:7 When the MORNING STARS .....sang together ....

Revelation 22:16 ...I am .....the bright and MORNING STAR .....

Revelation 2:28 and I will give him the MORNING STAR ....

Psalms 82: ....ye are gods, the children of the most high .....

John 17:22 And the glory which thou hast given me, I have given them, that they may be one, as we are one.

God Bless YOU, his body!

Hi Grae. I realize you've written to Adam, but if I may, I'll just briefly write this.

You've stated, "(your belief that Jesus is not God is) totally clear to me from my reading of the whole Bible." And you feel frustrated that folk believing as you do are barracked by those who don't. I don't sense that this happens. What I do see is that one side presents their belief & the other side presents their belief & that is up for discussion, as per these Discussion Pages. If you feel that these others are heavy-handed in their presentation, then they have presented Scriptures to show the Deity of Christ & hope that folk will use those Scriptures to argue their case.

I know Adam has presented a long list of references in the past, as I have also shared some. Has anyone even attempted to discuss those verses? One person did try to discuss John 1:1-14 with me, but conveniently changed the meaning that after Jesus was born into the World, God's Word came into Him. I've often presented one particular verse ( John 17:5): "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was." And none have given their understanding of this verse.

So, this can be frustrating to us also. For me, I wonder, 'have folk missed reading this verse altogether; have they read it but have their own understanding or even changed it; or, will it shake their belief, so best avoid discussion? You've read the whole Bible, you write. How do you, one who doesn't believe in the Deity of Jesus, deal with John 17:5? I would really like to know, because if I were in your position, that verse alone would shake my long-held belief severely.

Brother Adam:

Jesus Christ is the BODY of his Father; therefore he is 100 % God.

John 17:23 ...Thou in me ....

John 17:21 ...as thou Father art in me, and I in thee ....

God Bless YOU!

Sister Amanda:

The purpose of it all, is to bring God's creation to TRUTH.

Creation is DECEIVED.

Sinful flesh (man) DIED ON THE CROSS; a NEW CREATION (Christ in you) arose.

1 Corinthians 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ ....

Philippians 2:13 For it is GOD (Christ in you) that worketh both TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.

Colossians 1:27 ...this mystery ....Christ IN YOU .....

John 17:23 I in THEM, and THOU in ME, that they may be PERFECT (Christ is the only one perfect) in one .....

Psalms 82:6 I have said, ye are gods, the children of the most high.

Philippians 1:29 For UNTO YOU it is GIVEN in the BEHALF of Christ, not only to BELIEVE on HIM (the word), but also to suffer for his sake.

Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature WAITETH for the MANIFESTATION of the Sons of God.

Why is creation WAITING?

Obadiah 1:21 And saviours (God's SONS, Christ and his brothers) shall come on mount Zion to JUDGE the mount of Esau, and the kingdom SHALL BE the LORD'S.

Psalms 149:9 To execute upon them the JUDGEMENT written, this HONOUR hath all his saints.

Romans 8:21 For the creature itself SHALL BE DELIVERED from the bondage of corruption (death and the grave) into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

1 Corinthians 15:28 And when all things have been subdued unto him, then shall the son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that GOD may be ALL in ALL.

Billions of people; dead and in the grave, are AWAITING the arrival of Christ and his brothers at the resurrection of the dead: to be brought to TRUTH.

Proverbs 16:6 By MERCY and TRUTH iniquity is purged .....

BELIEF will judge UNBELIEF.

God Bless YOU, his body.

Amen. Brother Alex:

Yes, the 144,000 (signified not literal) is the Old Saints.... Mathew 27:52-53

They have already received (I AM the resurrection) the PROMISE (made perfect, Immortality, resurrected INTO the FORM OF CHRIST: Galatians 4:19)

1 Timothy 16:6 Who (Christ) ONLY hath immortality, dwelling in the light .....

Hebrews 11:39 And all these, having obtained a good report through faith (of Christ), received not the promise (to be made perfect).

Hebrews 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us (we will never see death), that they without us should not be MADE PERFECT (Christ is the ONLY ONE PERFECT).

Luke 46:40 ....but every one that IS PERFECT shall be as his MASTER.

John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they MAY BE PERFECT ......

God Bless YOU.

Luke 16:19-26. The only passage that Jesus Himself talks about where a person goes after he dies. There is Heaven and Hell. I pray all will be saved. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Romans 3:25; 1 John 2:2; 1 John 4:10.

Luke 23:43

Acts 1:25; John 17:12 Judas Iscariot is the son of perdition. He went to his own place. Revelation 17:8

Isaiah 5:14

Romans 16:25-27

John 3:16 I pray many will be saved. Keep the Faith, trust only and believe in the blood of Jesus Christ. Nobody can save themselves. We give glory to God for He gave us a free gift, a gift of Grace, the grace of God that is available to all.

Hope this helps.

Hi Doug. Great Scriptures to show that Christ has come in the flesh - He is indeed the Son of God & the Son of Man. And as a Man, He was made "like unto his brethren" & as a Man "was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin". I would certainly never argue the humanity of Christ.

But interesting that you quoted 1 John 4:3, "And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world." This is the wonderful Truth from John, about the spirits that influence men what to believe & proclaim (as the false prophets of verse 1 did). That spirit that does not confess that Christ has come in the flesh is the spirit of Satan (antichrist).

Some have glossed over these verses, but in the past, I felt compelled to consider, 'surely a spirit that does not confess Christ coming in the flesh, must be a different spirit that believes that Jesus was a real Person?' The spirits themselves believe Jesus was real, the Jews & Romans believed, even the Gnostics (about whom John was warning the believers), believed - there was no denial that there was a Man going around by the Name of Jesus & saying & doing all that He did. But these same Gnostics & others I've mentioned will never confess one thing. And that is, that Jesus came out from God to become a man. Because gnostics believe that Divinity cannot unite with the material, especially sinful flesh, therefore the incarnation is an impossibility. And so John issued the warning to try (test) the spirits (that by which these men spoke); that there is a spirit that denies that Jesus came down from Heaven into a body of flesh. John 3:13; John 17:5.

Brother Doug:

I read your comment, you believe we are one with The Father and the Son John 17:21; but you don't believe we exchange names.

Are we the bride (the wife) of our HUSBAND (Christ)?

Does the WIFE not always take the NAME OF HER HUSBAND?

Revelation 3:12...and I (CHRIST) will write upon him (my wife) the NAME OF MY GOD ......and I will write upon him My NAME.

God Bless You.

I believe all of those scriptures that Christ is one with God and the Father is in the Son. I also believe that we are one in God and Jesus, but we do not exchange names with them and call ourselves God or Jesus. Some verses ... John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be (one in us): that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." I think when we use words that the Bible does not use it can complicate the scripture. Example: God the Son or God in the flesh. It is simpler to use the Son of God and ponder what that means. 2 Cor. 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. God dwells in us and walks in us, but we don't call ourselves "God in the flesh" just because he is in our flesh. Maybe a relevant point to consider concerning this topic is if we believe Jesus could have sinned.

I appreciate your response, Doug. I see that you do believe that the "Word was with God and the Word was God". But is our difference in understanding lie only in "what happened after the Word was (then) made flesh (i.e. His life in humanity)?" I think there is another important matter to look at before that, i.e. before Jesus was given God's Glory on Earth, where was He before His Coming?

So, this Word that was with God and was God ( John 1:1), was not only the Word uttered by God to create all things (v3), but in God's Wisdom & Plan, He gave His Word flesh (v14) - drawn from the Essence of God into humanity, & the disciples saw that this Glory which reflected from Him was that of the Father's only begotten Son (not first created, 'protokitises', but first born, 'prototokos': in relation to the first 'of its type in creation, of divinity & humanity as one'). At a previous time, someone else translated that verse to be, 'that Jesus then became God's Word' (i.e. Jesus came & then the Word placed into Him; rather than 'the Word came & was made human'). Herein is the problem.

Then when we look at John 17:5, we can see in Jesus' Prayer that He recalls to His Father about the Glory that He had with Him. This glory Jesus had to lay aside for the sake of becoming human ( Philippians 2:5-8). And in John 17:1-5, Jesus speaks to His Father about this Glory: that Jesus was in the throes of completing the Work of the Father, of bringing Glory to Him through it (v4), and now longs for God's Glory (which Jesus once had), to be granted back to Him (v5). Now exactly what this Glory entails, we're not told. But it would certainly reflect His Position within God's Person (seen in the verses cited), the task accomplished on Earth, & the Glory, Power & Victory emanating from the coming resurrection.

And the glory we've received: being in Christ as Christ is in God ( Col 3:3) - not gods, but sharing in all the goodness & vitality of the One Who is now our Father & Jesus our Brother.

Hi Chris,

Regarding John 17:5 : "Glorify thee with with thine own self" (Self). Creation is an extension of self. In this sense meaning, extend God's whole being (qualities, His Mind) unto Jesus. "which I had with thee before the world was.", meaning Jesus was an extension (creation) of God before man entered the world. Jesus has nothing that does not come from God. The difference between us and Jesus is that He has nothing else. As I've previously stated, God created Jesus (Christ); Jesus did not create God.This is Their only difference. So, is Jesus God? No, in the sense that He didn't create the Creator. Yes, in the sense that He has everything of/from the Creator (Source) and thinks and responds and speaks ONLY what the Voice for God (Holy Spirit) communicates.

How does this fit into the idea of the Trinity? God Is. God is God, in His Kingdom, where nothing but perfect Love exists. No fear/hate (or even thoughts of fear and hate) can enter. His Kingdom is holy where perfect peace dwells. Nothing changes (no duality). Nothing there within or without can affect it. God's omnipotence can't be usurped. The Holy Spirit is simply God's Voice. Jesus is the Christ, APPEARING as man, our mediator. We need this mediator because without Him the distance between God and man would be too great for us to encompass and overcome. This Trinity is One even though they appear to have different functions. They are One BECAUSE They share a common purpose, and what shares a common purpose is the same.

A good way to describe the Trinity is this: The Trinity in It's oneness transcends the sum of it's parts. I perceive the same concerning the Sonship: God has only One Son. If all His creations are His sons, then everyone must be an integral part of the whole Sonship. And the Sonship in its Oneness transcends the sum of it's parts.

And may I be so bold as to say that God would be incomplete without us (His Creations).

Peace to all.

God Is

Thanks Chris for your reply! I agree with the thought that the "Word was with God and the Word was God". I think the difference in beliefs is what happened when the in Word was made flesh. John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. I believe he was full of "grace and truth". He carried nature of God, but needed the grace of God and had to access it like we do. That is why he prayed, fasted, etc to resist temptation. Luke 2:40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him. v 52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man. Isaiah 11:3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: I believe he reflected his father at all times. Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; The following verse to me is interesting indicating that we have been given the glory that God gave him. John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: A mystery I have: is when was he considered the begotten Son and when did that happen. Psalm 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. These thoughts are not all inclusive, but enough hopefully to clear any misunderstandings.

Hi Doug. All the Scriptures you've given are wonderful & indeed show Jesus Christ in His Humanity. I don't think anyone who believes in the deity of Christ could ever reject or even alter the meaning of those verses to suit some agenda. For so Jesus was: a Man on Earth & a Man in Heaven, now the mediator between God & men. But was He/is He just a Man?

The dispute doesn't exist with those precious verses. It exists when some believe that Jesus had no existence before He became a Man. Scriptures have been provided by several of us, to reveal this pre-incarnate Jesus - unfortunately, those Scriptures have been either been avoided, misconstrued or altered in meaning/application to reflect their belief. Personally, I have given those Scriptures several times, but on maybe one or two occasions over these years, none has ever come back to me with a desire to expound them further. So maybe I will try with you brother since you appear quite keen.

Just one verse: how do you understand John 17:5? "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was." What is Jesus saying in His prayer to His Father? Thank you.

Hello Ronald. If I might add my understanding to some of the Scriptural references you gave.

Revelation 3:14: "These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God." The Greek for 'beginning' is 'arche', as we add that prefix to the words such as 'arch-enemy, arch-bishop, arch-rival. It certainly has the primary meaning of a 'beginning or first in line', but it clearly denotes 'one who holds the primary highest position/control over others'. That being the case, if Jesus first appeared as the creation by God in the womb of Mary, it could never be said that He was the beginning/first in line to all of God's Creation, which happened several millennia prior. But Jesus was there because He was involved in the creative Work ( John 1:1-3; Colossians 1:16; Hebrews 1:2).

Colossians 1:15: "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature." I understand that 'firstborn' indicated here, refers to the 'rights & privileges' of the firstborn child (e.g. 2 Chronicles 21:3). All God's creation have received His Love & Care, but at the birth of His Son into humanity, Jesus, as the Son, was the first(born) to gain/inherit His Father's full estate, as well as enjoying "the fullness of God in Himself" ( Colossians 1:19). But the full riches of God to humanity could only be realized by those placing their trust in the Forerunner & Shepherd of their faith, Jesus Christ.

John 17:5: "O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was." What was His Glory? We can assume all of God's Glory, for He is the Word of/from God, but even if that wasn't the case, Jesus, as the Word of God, had that Glory even before creation of the worlds.

You stated, "I honor the Son for what He gave up." If Jesus (the Word) didn't exist from eternity within the Person of God, & was only created from the womb of Mary, I wonder what He had to give up? Your responses have been very interesting.

Hey Adam,

Part 1

I can say and I believe you as well, we believe God has no beginning or no end. In John 1:1 it starts with in the beginning, why? Does it mean Jesus the Son of God has been God from eternity or is that an assumption? Scripture tells us Jesus the Amen is the beginning of creation, Rev. 3:14.

Scripture tells us Jesus in whom we have redemption through His blood and forgiveness of our sins and is the image of the invisible God (the manifestation of God). Jesus is the firstborn of every creature and through Him, everything that is was created through and for Him Col. 1:12-17.

It also says the Father made us meet/qualify of the inheritance and says He, Jesus was before "all in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things". Does that say He was eternal with the Father or does scripture tell us He was the firstborn of every creature/all creation in the beginning?

By this Jesus can say "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, the first and the last, He, Jesus was first of all and He will be the last and the ending of this creation when the mystery of God should be finished and the new heaven and the new earth (the new creation perfect without spot).

Jesus the Son of God was the beginning, He is the only begotten Son of God. Does scripture honestly tell how He was begotten? Can we only say God ordained it before the world? Jesus said in John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. With our human minds can we have any clue to what that glory is?

See part 2,

Words that Paul and Jesus wanted believers to understand and know. Ephesians 1:17 That the God (of) our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the (only) true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is (one God), and one mediator between God and men, (the man) Christ Jesus; Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son (of) the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

I put in parenthesis words that can be passed over easily. A lot of the phrases "deity of Christ", "fully God, fully man", "God the Son" I haven't read in the Bible. I might have missed them. If so I would like to know them. I wonder if their is a benefit in adding to the words the Bible uses to describe Jesus Christ.

Page 2.

Therefore, to your words, "the Spirit doesn't become flesh (man)" - the Spirit remains as God's Spirit. God took His Word & clothed the Word (Jesus) with human flesh ( John 1:1-14). And this act cannot be an impossible task for God. Is anything too hard for the LORD? Jesus lived out His Days in holiness & worked by the Power of God's Spirit within Him. And this Holy Spirit is the same as Jesus' Spirit, even as Paul declared ( Romans 8:9), & Peter as well ( 1 Peter 1:11).

Question: how can the Spirit of Christ be the same as God's Spirit ( Romans 8:9), if Jesus is not eternally a part of the Godhead? As Christians, we have the Holy Spirit within, but none of us can say that He has replaced our spirit with His Spirit ( Romans 8:16). Our spirits will always exist, but now we have another Spirit Who will "abide with us forever" ( John 14:16). But Jesus Spirit was only the Holy Spirit, & not a human spirit, because He came from the Father Who is Spirit ( John 17:5).

Brothern.

Time of Grace article on division.

Even the word "devil" can be translated as "to divide."

The devil loves chaos. Ever since his fall from Heaven Satan seeks to divide the world. His first action was to divide the angels, which was followed-up by tempting Adam and Eve in the garden, driving a wedge between the first humans and God.

Division is the devil's playground and it shouldn't be surprising. The word "devil," comes from the Greek word diabolos, which can be translated as, "to divide," "to separate," or more literally, "to throw against." Whenever we see division occur in the world, especially division that pits one group in society against another, we can affirm that the devil is in some way behind it. He wants us to destroy ourselves and hatred against other people is one of the fastest ways we become the authors of our own demise.

Jesus, on the other hand, desires unity.

I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, so that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me. And I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be one, as we are one. ( John 17:20-22)

The Holy Trinity is the prime example of unity and communion, something we will ultimately participate in if we reach Heaven someday. Heaven will essentially be "communion," where we are unified not only with God, but with each other.

Above all, we need to strive for unity in truth, coming together to fight against injustices with charity. If we can stay united together under the leadership of Jesus Christ, we are able to thwart the plans of the devil.

End article.

BE VISUAL!!

For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. Jude 1:4.

God bless.

You're correct Robert, Jesus was always referred to as the Son OF God, or the Son OF Man - and so He was & is. Yet, when we consider other Scriptures of how Jesus regarded His relationship to the Father, we are compelled to re-think our beliefs.

Other Scriptures have been given on this thread, but I would emphasize only a few:

John 17:5 - Jesus had God's Glory even before the worlds were created.

Matthew 1:23 - Jesus' Name, Emmanuel, is "God with us".

Colossians 1:15-17 - Jesus is God's Image; Jesus created all things; Jesus was before all things & He holds all things together.

John 10:30 - Jesus' claimed equality with God, for this very reason the Jews wanted to stone Him.

Just a few very compelling verses to show beyond doubt that this Jesus was not a mere created being for the world's salvation. He was the Essence of God (the Word of God made flesh) Who was declared as God coming in the flesh ( John 1:1-14).

We would have to discount Jesus' former Glory in Heaven, His Name as, "God now with mankind", His creative & sustaining Work, and His Own claim of equality with the Father, to believe that Jesus was anything less than wholly Divine in Heaven & on Earth.

It may be difficult for our fickle human minds to comprehend such concepts & Truths, but our weaknesses should not prohibit us from believing God's Word & the necessity for God Himself to pay to secure our salvation (this is His love demonstrated) - no other sacrifice would do - not even a special created human being or a specially prepared animal. If the people of His day understood it & the apostles & early Church believed it, then where & how did we go wrong by rejecting His Deity?

A day in the life of Christ part 2.

Christ's perfect alignment with the Father's will and works allowed Him to have every action planned out; as well as a clear understanding of His impending death and Resurrection. Again; His Divinity necessitated this; but he was able to learn (as best as can be described) obedience ( Heb. 5:8-10) when in human form. This necessitated all His time to be prearranged for that final outcome and dictated where He went; who He talked to etc. In short unlike us there was never any confusion how to handle the situation moment by moment while simultaneously planning for the future long term mission.

This mindset; of course would clearly cause much confusion among His disciples and everyone else who were thinking with their own understanding. Clearly; He didn't condescend to placating other's expectations; although He was obedient to His parents after starting an early evangelistic venture in the Synagogue at age 12. This was to show an example of servitude and honoring family; but also He had a specific time (at age 30); perhaps according to Rabbinic principles to begin His ministry at that time.

Nonetheless; despite frequent misunderstandings He would heal all those who sought Him out. He Himself would go to places not considered appropriate; to the woman at the well; to hang out with children; and other unseemly individuals in society. The emphasis was always skewed toward repentance. Whenever the crowds followed Him after providing for their physical need; He would honestly assess that they were doing it for the payoff. He would base His actions incorporating responses such as that of the Pharisees complaining of Sabbath Day "work"; doing things in the power of Beelzebub; etc. He had Disciples arguing about who was the greatest and be betrayed and left alone just when their support mattered the most. Most notably; His concern was for the Church at the Hour of His trial ( John 17:17-23).

Hello Naseem,

Scripture tells us the unclean spirits/devils knew He was the Son of God, Matt. 8:29 Mark 3:11 Luke 8:27-28. Scripture tells us Jesus is the Son of God the only begotten of the Father, John 1:14. Scripture tells us Jesus the Son of God was before this world John 17:5 2 Timothy 1:9. Scripture tells us Jesus the Son of God was the beginning of creation Rev. 3:1. Scripture tells us everything was created through Him Col. 1:16.

Scripture tells us to confess Jesus is the Son of God, 1 John 4:15. Scripture tells us God gave His only begotten Son, John 3:16. Scripture tells us to believe God gave His only begotten Son, 1 John 5:10. Scripture tells us God was made known in the flesh through His only begotten Son same as creation was through His Son 1 Timothy 3:16 Col. 1:16.

Scripture tells us we have salvation and eternal life only in Jesus Christ, John 3:36 Acts 4:12 Eph. 4:12 1 Thess. 5:9 1 John 5:13 Scripture tells us we can only come to the Father through Jesus, John 14:6 1 Timothy 2:5.

Jesus came to fulfill the law and the prophets and died for our sins, and the only way that could be done is in the flesh, the seed of Abraham, Hebrews 2. He experienced temptation the same as you and me, Luke 4:2 Heb 2:18, He had a brain and a will, Luke 22:42 but He was obedient to the Father. We now have a high priest in heaven that lived in this flesh just like us, Hebrews 4:14-16.

Salvation and eternal life only by the grace of God through faith which is in Christ Jesus. Jesus Christ's perfect life in the flesh, His blood shed for us, and His resurrection. We cannot deny the divinity of Jesus, the only begotten Son of God that was before this world, but no creed, doctrine, or statement of faith can be placed above or added to that we must believe to receive salvation and eternal life if scripture does not tell us we must believe. Truth is in the simplicity that is in Christ.

I love this site and the brothers and sisters on it.

God bless,

RLW

Job 23:14

For HE (the Father, Spirit, Life) performeth the thing that is appointed for me (the Body).......

Philippians 2:13 For it is God (the Father, Spirit, Life) that worketh in you (the Body) both TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.

Ephesians 4:4 ONE BODY .....ONE SPIRIT .....

Ephesians 4:6 ONE GOD and Father of ALL .....

Not many BELIEVE that the LIFE in their BODY is CHRIST.

Matthew 7:14 Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way, that leadeth unto LIFE, and few there be that find it.

John 10:10 .....I am come that they might HAVE LIFE ......

John 19:28 I give unto them ETERNAL LIFE ...

1 Timothy 6:18 WHO only (CHRIST ONLY) hath immortality, dwelling in the LIGHT which no man can approach unto .....

John 11:25 I am the resurrection, and THE LIFE .....

John 14:6 ....I am THE LIFE .....

John 20:31 ....and that BELIEVING you might have LIFE through HIS NAME .....

Revelation 22:4 ....and HIS NAME shall be in their foreheads .....

Revelation 3:12 ...and I will write upon him MY NAME .....

Acts 2:38 ....be ye baptised every one of you IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST .....

John 17:21 That they all may be ONE, as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also be ONE IN US ......

God Bless You.

2Th 2:3 (KJV) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

let no man or woman deceive you, that day shall not come (the day of Christ) except there come a falling away from the true faith, which has been happening slowly but seems to have ramped up today, with all this false theology, dispensationalism being at the top of the list in the destruction of American Christianity..

so the falling away is first then, that man of sin, the son of perdition is revealed

the man of sin and the son of perdition are speaking of the same.... Satan

here's the reference for the man of sin... Isaiah 14:16... start around verse 12 and read to verse 23 to get the context..

and the reference for the son of perdition... John 17:12

GOD IS LIFE and LIFE IS GOD

The BODY is only a vessel that holds THE LIFE OF GOD.

When the body DIES (the wages of sin is death: Romans 6:23) it returns to the dust from whence it came.

Ecclesiastes 3:20 ALL go unto one place; for all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

Job 34:15 ALL FLESH shall perish together and man shall turn again into dust.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit (LIFE) shall return unto God who gave it.

Ephesians 4:4 ONE SPIRIT .....one LIFE

1 Corinthians 15:38 For God giveth it (the new creation, YOU, Christ resurrected) a body as it hath pleased him, and to every SEED his (Christ's) own BODY.

Ephesians 4:4 ONE BODY ....

HELL (Hades) is the grave, where men, the dust of the earth go.

The NEW MAN goes to the presence of God, the Father. as the BODY of Christ resurrected.

Ephesians 4:6 ONE GOD and FATHER OF ALL .......

Revelation 20:6 Blesses and HOLY is he (the new creation) who hath part in the FIRST RESURRECTION.

Matthew 16:24 .....DENY YOURSELF ......

Colossians 1:27 .....this mystery ......CHRIST IN YOU ..... you the body (of Christ).

John 17:21 That they (new creation) may be ONE, as thou Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they (new creation) may be ONE IN US ....

Revelation 12:2 And SHE (the church, Christ's bride) being with child (the new man) cried, travailing in BIRTH, and pained to BE DELIVERED.

Whosoever BELIEVES SHALL (at the death of this body of flesh) BE SAVED ....... DELIVERED.

May God give us eyes to see and ears to hear.

God BLESS.

Thank You Father The life of God flows in my blood and cleanses my arteries of all matter that does not pertain to life. My heart beats with the rhythm of life, carrying the Life of God throughout my body, restoring LIFE AND HEALTH ABUNDANTLY. ( John 17:23; Eph. 2:22).

I have a strong heart. Every heart beat floods by body with life and cleanses me of disease and pain. Ex. 23:25 Mark 11:23.

I command my blood cells to destroy every disease germ and virus that tries to inhabit my body. I command every cell of my body to be normal In Jesus' Name. Rom. 5:17; Luke 17:6

Every cell that does not promote life and health in my body is cut off from its life source. My immune system will not allow boils and infection to live in my body In Jesus' Name! Luke 17:6; Mark 11:2

I am redeemed from the curse of the law and my heart beats with the rhythm of life. The spirit and life of God's Word flows in me cleansing my blood of every disease and impurity.

The law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death; therefore, I will not allow sin, sickness or death to lord over me! Rom 8:2; 6:13,14

The same Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead dwells in me, permeating His life through my veins, sending healing throughout my body Rom 8:11.

In Jesus' Name I forbid my body to be deceived in any manner. Body, you will not be deceived by any disease germ or virus. Neither will you work against life or health in any way. Every cell in my body supports life and health.

Let's look at the principle that could be the key to you being a partaker of God's provision concerning your healing.

There is probably no other subject as important to your healing and health than the principle of CALLING THINGS THAT ARE NOT. We see in Romans 4:17-22 that Abraham became fully persuaded that God would do what He had promised. The way he became fully persuaded was by calling those things which were not manifest as though they were.

Mishael

Here a few Margaret (you can hover over each one to read the text).

Matthew 9:38; John 17:20,21; Acts 26:18; Romans 10:1; 1 Timothy 2:1-4.

"I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine." John 17:9

"...I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me..." John 17:9