Discuss John 19 Page 9

Jesus submitted to the God-ordained supreme authority of the priests and the elders of Israel; even though they themselves were wicked, and used their authority for their own criminal agenda. The Roman Governor however was also guilty in that he hearkened to their voices, whom HE KNEW were only raging against Jesus out of envy and hatred, and that Jesus was innocent! Still Jesus bore it patiently!

The priests and rulers of the people delivered Jesus to the heathen to be put to death, and are the ones with the greater sin. God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son... and this is what MEN DO IN RESPONSE TO THAT LOVE! Jesus being condemned and crucified shows man's wickedness and man's sinful and perverted condition. The Father vindicated His Son by raising Him from dead.

"Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin." Vs 11. I've been asked, "Who is this, the HE that hath the greater sin?" Is it God? The answer is found in the previous chapter, vs 35, "Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priest have delivered thee unto me"..

I noticed that in verse 25 that it mentions Mary wife of Cleophas. This is the only mention of her or Cleophas in the entire Bible. Who is she and who is Cleophas?

Judas betrayed Jesus Peter did not. Judas had a divided heart.
Peter did not .

Luke 23:4 Then said Pilate to the chief priests and to the people, I find no fault in this man. John 19:6 When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Take ye him, and crucify him: for I find no fault in him. Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Jeff (cont. 2); Besides, every true Christian wants everyone to come to repentance, and find the mercy and grace of salvation: we want everyone to know the Lord Jesus like we know Him, and be blessed. But we have to be realistic; just like God is realistic: at a certain point even God has to let men have what they really want; and when they DON'T WANT JESUS OR HIS SPIRIT; then they are damned!

Jeff (cont.); You start out nice in your last post, but what don't you agree with? Can't you see a difference in the kinds of sins that men do? Jesus even said, that "ALL MANNER OF SINS SHALL BE FORGIVEN TO THE SONS OF MEN; BUT THE BLASPHEMY OF THE SPIRIT SHALL NEVER BE FORGIVEN: NEITHER IN THIS WORLD OR THE NEXT!" My view is that Judas' sin was against the Spirit, and he was rejected!

Jeff; I wasn't offended, Brother! I'm glad if I could help. As there aren't many who like to talk about such dreadful things as falling into sin, and outright betrayal of Christ; and what are the differences in sins, that like the Apostle John says; some we pray for and some we do not; some are unto death and some are not! Considering the matter of Peter and Judas is very important for all of us.

Disciple, I think I understand now. I did not intend to offend you or disrespect Peter. But I don't think we are going to agree on this one. For that reason this will be my last post on this particular subject. I believe that we all are guilty of crucifying our Lord because "all have sinned...". (You, me, Peter and Judas). I want everyone to know via repentance, they too can enjoy God's grace!

Jeff; Blessings to you too! I'm so grateful for this chance to talk about the things of the Lord. Whether we are discussing points of doctrine, or meanings of words; or if we run into disagreements or false teachings; it causes us to sharpen our understanding and skill in the Word of God; and thereby examining and confirming ourselves and each other, growing in grace and the knowledge of Jesus.

Dear Jeff; I read again several times our little back and forth, and its simply about comparing Peter to Judas Iscariot. You said that they were going down the same path; I said that they were not at all, but completely different kind of men with completely different kind of hearts and characters. It is very important to know the differences for our business of saving with fear or with compassion.

Disciple, I'm not certain of the reason for the "contention". I will certainly consider what you have said. Blessings to you.

Jeff (cont. 3); Lastly Brother, I think it is very important to understand things of this nature, as they have so much to do with not only our own walking in truth but how we should discern and be able to judge rightly among each other, and teach new Believers. Not everyone has a deceitful and desperately wicked heart! But many take Scriptures like that and throw it on everyone without discretion.

Jeff; for what cause is this contention? Did Judas Iscariot ever get engaged in his calling like Peter did? Was Judas named the first of all the Apostles? What time Peter spoke ill advised, was out of love for Jesus, but not understanding the meaning of the cross. How can you compare those two men? Judas fell away in his heart after covetousness, became a thief, and stirred up murmuring and evil.

Disciple, your defense of Peter is unwarranted. I like Peter have through repentance been a recepeant of God's wonderful Grace! I want others to understand that (whatever sin they are guilty of) they (like Peter) can repent and be a partaker of that grace. Be like Peter not like Judas (who apparently never found repentance). I want everyone to know the wonderful grace of God that I have enjoyed...

Hi Jeff; Thanks for writing back! I'm glad you say we don't disagree; however I don't like the words, "same path" for what it implies. Up until the day Jesus was risen from the grave, and He breathed on them and opened their understanding to the Scriptures; it was hidden from them how Jesus had to go to the cross for us. All the disciples fled for fear; in this Peter was like them; NOT like Judas!

Disciple; I don't think we "disagree". (Unless you believe that Judas had no choice...then I would respectfully disagree). Certainly, Judas had traveled much farther down that path than Peter. (And possibly Judas was never a believer). But Peter repented. I just see a contrast between Judas' choice and Peter's and an example of God's wonderful grace. Blessings my friend!

Jeff; you said, "..Two men, both heading down the same path.." I have to strongly disagree with you brother. There is a huge difference between Peter and Judas Iscariot! Peter loved the Lord Jesus, but being unprepared for the sudden crisis, he was filled with fear and not himself, and in that vulnerable condition, shamefully sinned. Judas on the other hand was willfully fallen away for some time.

I do not doubt that Judas could have repented at any time....Scripture would have been fulfilled. We have here another individual (Peter) that is an example of someone that also denies Jesus but responds to God's grace by repenting. Two men, both heading down the same path but only one embraced God's wonderful grace.

Don: that Sabbath Day was an high day,: John 19:31

John 19:36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken. They were supposed to break Jesus bones, but thru the Grace of God, they didn't. The Bible is true and Holy.

Amen.

All of this should of happen to set people free from sin. From then do today until Christ setts his kingdom on new Earth and new Heaven

John 19:28 "i thirst"

V. 26 - in the back 'comments' pg. it has been noted that the disciple whom Jesus loved was - somebody's - nephew. This is what is meant by - "wrest - to their destruction"

People just don't understand about Sun. worship: it's not a DAY we worship, it's the PRACTILITY of Sunday: a LOT of people don't work at their jobs on Sun. Phariseeism, narrow mindedness, self-righteousness. Sunday is just common sense. Saturday is fine with us for folks who worship on that day; it's not the day one worships, it's WHO. Outside of the cup is beautiful, but ........

V. 21 - "Chief Priests of the Jews", said write I Am; Ex.3: 6,14; Jn. 18:5-6. Interesting - that the priests didn't realize who He was or what they said. In Jn. 19:21 -- they SAID Jesus was - God - and didn't even realize it. Matt. 23:15

JESUS IS SO REAL! It also show no matter how Good you, mans thoughts are nothing we should aim to please GOD NOT MAN GOD IS GREATER THAN
MAN! HE DIED FOR US YET ARE WE GRATEFUL AMEN
IN JESUS MIGHTY NAME BLOOD

Verse 18 shows that these scriptures have a prophetic meaning. Comparing this verse with Mark 15:24, Luke 23:34, and John 19:23, 24 shows that thousands of years later these words were fulfilled in what happening with Jesus' garments.