John
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Isaiah 9:6
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Jesus Christ is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
John 1:1-18
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Leviticus 19:28
Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.
It's an Old Testament scripture. Jesus came to be crucified and die for our sins so we could be saved; and He ratified the New Covenant with his own blood.
Tattoos, I think are part of this generations desire to belong to a group. We did it in the 60's, but the paint washed off. I think people are trying to find an identity with something or someone.
Habakkuk 2:2-3. Is talking about a vision. Long ago the Lord told me that this verse was about a people with no identity. The Bible contains our new identities as Christians. We all belong to Jesus, so he's our new identity. The "evangelist" in us wants to show others what group we belong in. Changed lives is a greater witness of Jesus's life in us. Doing the do's and not doing the don'ts.
I've never had a tattoo. But I carry a Bible and know how to use it. I'm not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ. I don't need tee shirts or tats to announce that a Christian is here. I use a smile. It works 99% of the time. You have no idea the rush of pure joy leading someone closer to the Lord.
DONT get anymore tats. You can give that money to school lunches for children who are hungry. God bless you for your love. :)
M.
I just confused about people said Yes God do allows and some people said no.
I want to follow God's words.
Thank you again for your reply. Excuse me, I did not explain myself well when I quoted Ecclesiastes 6:11. The NIV Bible reads "The more the words, the less the meaning, and how does that profit anyone?". My point was just that we should keep our words few to enhance the meaning and be clear.
Your second paragraph, which begins with "I realize...", I agree with completely. But why do we have to cut God up into different pieces and say They are different Persons in the Godhead. Why can we not see it as one Person just having different jobs. For example, I am a father, a son, a husband, etc., but still I am just one person. Is it not possible that God is expressing Himself in the same way? And we misunderstand it as being different Persons in the Godhead?
In your 3rd paragraph you wrote "So we see the Father in Heaven, His Son (Word made flesh) at the Father's right Hand & His Spirit who indwells the believer & convicts men". This appears to show different Persons, but look at what the apostle John saw in Revelations 4:2 - And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. / ONE sat on the throne and no other deity next to It or at Its right Hand. And concerning the Spirit indwelling the believer: Was it not God's purpose from the beginning to have intimate fellowship with His children; God in His fulness, not a third of the fulness.
I am not so familiar with Jesus Only ideas so I cannot comment on that.
And last; you asked: "If Jesus was just a created Being, what difference is there between Him & the pure, spotless sacrificial animal?" Answer: Jesus is a spiritual sacrifice which can touch our spirits, making us repent, filling us with God's Spirit, making us sinless and not needing any more sacrifice for sins. (1John3:9 - Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.) Hallelujah!
Peace & Love in Christ
Thank you again for your reply, and your appreciation.
I will consider what you have written.
Peace & Love in Christ
Thank you for your respectful reply. I appreciate that. Some people are just looking to start quarrels and fights, but I now believe that is not your motive, but that you actually believe what you said to be true.
It sounds like you justified your belief by admitting that you don't believe the entire Bible, specifically 1 John 5:7, which you attempted to discredit. I believe the whole Bible including 1 John 5:7 as God's Word so I do not believe what you wrote. I think the bulk of your belief hinges on 1 verse Isaiah 9:6 which you strip out all the other meaning to focus on one word then conflate that word with God the Father then assume they are the same. This involves some mental gymnastics to come to your conclusion and I will prove how this is a logical fallacy. First you ignore all of Jesus' nicknames listed but zero in on 'everlasting father'. You then drop off the first word and and focus only on 'father' then you realize that God the father also has the word 'father' in it and assume they are the exact same being, despite billions of other fathers also existing on Earth. Does that mean all instances of 'father' in the Bible automatically mean God the father? Like Genesis 2:24 means to leave 'God the father' then? Obviously not. Genesis 9:18 says Ham is the father of Canaan- does this mean he's 'God the father' too like Jesus? If using the same logic this one is more likely to be conflated with God the father, because it directly says 'father' not 'everlasting father'- the one of many nicknames for Jesus. And again, Jesus praying to God the Father actually happened, and so Jesus obviously didn't pray to Himself. So, I think your position is refuted with scripture and logic, but if you don't believe parts of the Bible as you admitted then I can then see how you arrive at this distorted interpretation. I appreciate you sharing your interpretation, but I don't believe it's true. Have you prayed about this, to ask God for the truth? God bless you.
If Jesus was just a created Being (i.e. a separate creation for the purposes of ministry to the Jews & for Sacrifice), then the point I made, is what difference is there between Him & the pure, spotless sacrificial animal? Both are pure, both are created, both were prescribed of God & yes, both would only offer a temporal covering for sin, leaving the sinner today, as the Jew of yesteryear, bereft of a worthy & eternal salvation. That is why the Scriptures reveal an unbreakable link of Jesus, God's Word, coming from God in Heaven & being made the only Sacrificial Lamb that would meet God's demands fully. A created Jesus would be just another human creation (would God even do that?), however perfect He would be, but would not meet the criteria that God required for our redemption, justification & adoption. Just as the animal sacrifice could not satisfy God's Anger but only put in 'a stay of execution' to those under the law/curse, so any other created being could never do so. God's Sacrifice - His Love - was fully accomplished by Him offering up of Himself through His only Begotten Son, making our redemption perfect & final - that was God's Plan from all eternity.
And I would take you up on your words: "The important thing is that the sinner should not be a sinner any more Sinlessness is the key". There should be time for that discussion - not now. Blessings.
Yes, dear Hugo, I was referring to our conversation on 'prophets'. Re: Ecclesiastes 6:11, I think you have the wrong reference; possibly Proverbs 10:19, though this too doesn't apply.
I realize that you're not denying the deity of Christ in one sense, but I would advise you that 'Trinitarians' likewise don't deny it either. A Trinitarian understanding of the Scriptures as you know, is that there is One God & that God has expressed Himself (& revealed to us) His Being. God shows us Himself also by His Word & His Spirit - you know the Scriptures that support this. Then at the appointed time ( Romans 5:6), God sent His Word ( John 1:14) to be clothed with flesh so that a full & permanent sacrifice could be made for sin unlike animal sacrifices.
After Christ's death, resurrection & ascension, He went to sit at the Father's right Hand ( Luke 22:69; Romans 8:34) where He "ever lives to make intercession for us" ( Hebrews 7:25; Romans 8:34). So we see the Father in Heaven, His Son (Word made flesh) at the Father's right Hand & His Spirit who indwells the believer ( John 14:17; Ephesians 1:13,14) & convicts men ( John 16:8). There is no such teaching from the Bible that Jesus only exists in Heaven & that the Father & Holy Spirit are now existing in Jesus. I know this is the teaching of the "Jesus Only" movement. The Father, the Son & the Spirit are still there & all three remain part of the Eternal Godhead (& yes, by all means, level your accusation at me), for the Bible is clear. If you have Scriptures to show that this is not the case, then I welcome your further input & my study.
Thank you for taking the effort to reply to my comment. Everything else aside, I appreciate your time. (You mentioned a previous conversation; perhaps you are confusing me with someone else, unless you mean that one comment about whether there are still prophets.)
Let us just be careful: Ecclesiastes 6:11 The more words, the less meaning. You wrote a lot but I do not see much which is relevant to the topic at hand. I never denied Jesus Christ His deity. In contrast, I think Trinitarians deny His deity. I clearly said that Jesus Christ is the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Trinitarians say He is not the Father or the Holy Ghost. Actually I should level the denying deity accusation at YOU!
You say that the man Jesus could not be a sacrifice for sins. You say it has to be God that is the sacrifice. I do not understand your reasoning. The reason why the animal sacrifice had to be done yearly is because the sinner is not cleaned of his sin. He is still a sinner. He will walk away and sin again. The animal was a yearly covering for the sin. So the important thing is not the sacrifice. The important thing it that the sinner should not be a sinner any more. That is what the Holy Ghost does for us. We are washed once in the blood of Jesus, and then we can be filled with the Holy Spirit. I do not see why you say it is of no use that God create a human being to be the sacrifice. Sinlessness is the key.
Peace & Love to you. May God allow us all to know Him intimately.
Thank you for you reply. To respond to your comments:
You ask where in the Bible does it say Jesus Christ is the name of the Father. The answer is: (directly) Isaiah 9:6 - He (Christ) shall be called the Father /// (indirectly) Acts 2:38 - Jesus Christ said to baptize in the name of the Father; the apostles baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.
You quote 1John5:7. With all due respect, if you look it up, you will find that that verse was not in the Bible originally. The apostle John did not write it. Rather it was an addition by someone else around the year 1500.
You quote John 10:30, John 1:1, John 1:14: The spirit in Jesus is God. So of course Jesus can say that the Father and I are one. When a man says "I know", is it the body that knows? No, it is the spirit in the man that knows. Jesus Christ and God are one Spirit. /// The Word which was with God and became flesh is the Christ (a Spirit). Not the baby born in Bethlehem, but the Spirit inside that body.
You ask if Jesus prayed to Himself: That is absurd. The body called Jesus prayed to His Father whose Spirit was dwelling in Jesus just like it dwells in all sons and daughters of God.
You speak about Christians believing literally what the Bible says: This is NOT true. Think about things like female Christians cutting off their hair. Christians taking the Lord's Supper in the morning. Taking leavened bread instead of unleavened. Using juice instead of wine. Think about Christians not doing footwashing. Think about Christians saying it is okay to be gay. Saying it is okay for a woman to be a preacher. God have mercy upon us all.
Lastly, you ask about my motive: That is probably the hardest of your comments to respond to... To see if someone will be able to accept it.
Peace & Love in Christ
Today is the day of rescue and salvation from this spiritual warfare. You need to confess any sin(s) and receive Gods forgiveness over the past. Ask God to break all curses over you from that time to today.
In 1 John 1:9, it's best to stay current for things we do, but wish we had not done or said them. The Holy Spirit works inside of our conscience to let us know that's one we need to pray and be released from.
Reading the Bible, New Testament books will help us to side step the pits we fall over sometimes. You can listen to the Bible in your car driving to work, on Youtube; on your phone.
Our flesh leads us astray often. Bible reading stops that. I pray that you will follow Jesus and be a disciple to lead others to light and freedom. Jesus is the Light of the World. Amen.
I liken their spiritual Jesus more to a Frankenstein Jesus made up of parts of scriptures.
But he will not deliver them in the end .
Jesus Christ is come in the flesh born of God in Bethlehem, now at the right hand of God , coming back in Glory ! Amen !
The Bible speaks for it self. If you look at the Bible with natural eyes, you can not see.
Heb 1:5-8: "For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten (Gk. prototokon, NOT 'protokitses'=first created) into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God WORSHIP him. And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O GOD, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."
May you come to understand this great Truth that alone could redeem us back to God & set us free from that awful penalty which we deserved. Blessings.
In the Court of God, all men are guilty of sin & have to pay the penalty. In the court of man, we pay for our crimes & we are then released, but with God our payment can only lead to an eternal separation from God with no possibility of release. How can Jesus then say in John 3:16, "God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten Son"? Does His Love extend to just another sacrifice that was no better than the former? Or, does His Love speak to us in this way: 'because no sacrifice could pay for your sins, I provided the Sacrifice that would fully meet My demands of justice & full payment - Myself'. This was the only Sacrifice possible - all others have failed & would fail.
Back to 1 John 4:3. Men in Jesus' day knew Who Jesus was: a man, his mother Mary & (supposed) father, Joseph. Even today, most would not deny an historical Jesus Who walked the Earth. So John is not speaking of that Jesus, as a man ("come in the flesh"), but from & of God. That spirit of anti-Christ, just as the final anti-Christ still to come, will deny the divinity of Jesus but will seek to replicate His humanity through power, signs & wonders.
If one is to deny Christ His Deity, then one has to go to much pain to deny the Spirit His Deity. But if forced only to accept God the Father & His Spirit as One, then one would subscribe to a Binity God & that won't work either. It is safest to say that God expressed Himself by His Word & by His Spirit. His Word went to the prophets to bring God's Message to His people. "But in these last days hath spoken to us by His Son" ("the Word (God's Word) was made flesh & dwelt among us") Heb 1:2; Jn 1:14.
Hi again Hugo, I feel compelled to write again but won't repeat the pertinent accurate comments that Adam has given you. Have you seen this Scripture?
1 John 4:3: "And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world."
Here is a warning by the apostle John to all his readers & this was given in the midst of gnostic thought that was intruding into the Church. Gnosticsm has many facets, but the one seen here is: "the incarnation (i.e. God coming in the form of man) is incredible because Deity cannot unite itself with anything material, such as a body" (also referred to as Docetism). John is saying that the spirit behind the one who proclaims that Jesus Christ is simply just a good, perfect Man speaks by the spirit of anti-Christ & not of God. This is hard for me to say this to you given our past conversation, but the Word is clear & specific.
Because the Nature of God is hard to understand & sometimes likened to the pantheistic religions of the world, doesn't mean that our interpretation has evolved from them. Even if we break this down further: would a redemptive, substitutionary Sacrifice even be possible by a separate created Being from God? If it didn't work by using spotless animals as sacrifice in the past, it wouldn't work by a new creation of human. Why should God create a new human for the purpose of sacrifice? He could have done perfectly well with animal sacrifices & with faith in our offering & in God's acceptance of it, we should be in right standing before Him.
I'm not sure what your motive is for coming to a Christian Bible website and calling something that most Christians believe in a 'falsehood'. Where is your proof that what you're saying isn't a falsehood?
The reason people believe that the Father, the Son (the Word, or Jesus), and Holy Spirit are one is that the Bible literally says that in 1 John 5:7. If you hover over the links you'll see it.
So, since the Bible already says that, the real question is why don't you believe the Bible verse 1 John 5:7?
If you're looking for other Bible verses that support that, here they are: John 10:30, John 1:1, John 1:14 (The Word is Jesus Christ)
It shouldn't be too much of a surprise when Christians believe literally what the Bible says, so if you don't that means you must have a different interpretation of it, right? Of course most do not interpret it the way you do.
You wrote: "Jesus Christ is the name of God the father"
I'd like to ask what Bible verses do you believe supports that idea and where does it come from? Jesus is the same God, but a separate being/entity than God the Father. If He was exactly identical then the Bible would not have separated them into 3 entities/personalities or called them separate names, and wouldn't have given the verses it did. Since Jesus prayed to God the Father, is it logical that Jesus was praying to Himself? Matthew 26:39 - He said 'let this cup pass from me... not as I will, but thou wilt." This verse refutes your claim that they are both Jesus Christ. Would any of Jesus's prayers make sense of He was praying to Himself?
God bless...
I want to make a comment about the greatest problem in Christianity; namely, the falsehood of the Trinity.
There is no support of such a thing as a Trinity in the Bible. In contrast, tons of evidence exist in the religions of Egypt, Babylonia and Hinduism. The accepting of this belief among Christians may correctly be called the saddest event in the history of humanity.
God in His unimaginable mercy took on a body of flesh, placed our sins upon that body, and broke it. He raised it from the dead, and let it go up to heaven. The last words spoken by it were, "Go into all the world, preaching the Gospel. Baptise the believers in the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost." The disciples did just that. What Name? Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ is the name of God the father, and it is the name of the Son of God, and it is also the name of the Holy Ghost. God is a spirit. He took a name for us. It is Jesus Christ. The "Jesus" part of the name refers to the body which God used. The "Christ" part of the name refers to the manifested deity that was inside Jesus' body.
How terrible it is to then turn this incredible Gift of God into some freakshow three-in-one heathen concept of a Trinity. May God have mercy upon us all!
May we all grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ! Amen!