Discuss John 3 Page 41

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All this pointed to a time in the future when God would then "provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering." ( Genesis 22:8). So the Old Testament showed the people their sin & need for a substitute sacrifice but all it did was to temporarily cover their sin (i.e. avert God's Anger against them) until the coming of "the better hope & the better Covenant" ( Hebrews 7:19,22). What was this new Hope & Covenant for Israel? Sin was still sin & the penalty then was the same penalty now, but the difference now was that God Himself would provide His Own sacrificial Lamb. All other sacrifices fell far short in God's justice system & could never deal with the sin issue - all people remained condemned before Him.

But the same love that God had for His people in those old days was still very much the same to be demonstrated in these last days. John 3:16 best describes that Love which not only was for Israel but through this special Sacrifice, would encompass all people that each one could be saved by it, simply by looking to Him in faith. And the only Sacrifice that could demonstrate that Love & fulfil His Holy demands was that God Himself would, through His Son (the Word given flesh), would lay down His Life for us all. There could be no other suitable or acceptable sacrifice for our sins & to divert God's Anger against us that would send us to Hell for eternity. No man or animal could fully pay the price - God willingly gave of Himself for us all. "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends" ( John 15:13 & 1 John 3:16 "Hereby perceive we the love of God, because HE laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren). And the 'brutality of His Death' was because of the prevailing Roman form of execution, i.e. the release of Barabbas that Jesus might be crucified in his place.

Matthew 16:18-19 KJV

[18] And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. [19] And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matthew 28:18-19 KJV

[18] And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. [19] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

John 1:1-2 KJV

[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [2] The same was in the beginning with God.

John 1:9-14 KJV

[9] That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. [10] He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. [11] He came unto his own, and his own received him not. [12] But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: [13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. [14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 1:17-18 KJV

[17] For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. [18] No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 3:16 KJV

[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 8:58 KJV

[58] Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Yes!! There was one time when I was just talking with Jesus, I asked Him to hold my hand. So I hold out my hand and asked Him to heal me of sickness and to wash my sins away, and I'm not lying when I tell you that after that I suddenly cried heavily for no reason. It was as if tears came out of me out of the blue. For me it was Jesus's hand who held me! Although I didn't feel Him physically, I definitely felt Him emotionally. It was a great experience for me!

The KJV bible references the cross a total of 28 times in the NT, I find no reference to stake, and also to fulfill John 3:14 he would have needed to be lifted up on a cross. I hope this helps.

John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

Matthew Chapter 27:38-41 Then were there two thieves crucified with him, one on the right hand, and another on the left.

And they that passed by reviled him, wagging their heads, And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross. Likewise also the chief priests mocking him, with the scribes and elders, said,

Mark 15:32 "Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him."

Hello Chris,

If you agree that your definition of a Christian is different, then what is your definition? What exact criteria makes someone a Christian in your view?

My criteria is: believe Jesus Christ, repent/confess sin, and be baptized. Matthew 10:32, John 3:16, Luke 5:32, Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16. A Christian is a Christ follower, which is an action. It is an ongoing activity and responsibility to follow Jesus and obey Him and strive to live a holy life. It takes great effort to do this avoid sin. Look at Paul's struggle in Romans 7. John 14:15. Romans 12:2, James 2:26, John 8:11.

The gentleman I previously spoke about did all the above and is a Christian, but you said he wasn't. Why not? In your view is a Christian not a Christian if he sins just once, or twice, or does it depend on the sin?

And Jesus's followers were indeed Christians. A literal Christ follower is as true to being a Christian as you can possibly get. They literally followed Him around all day, listened to His teachings, believed Him, tried to emulate Him. Judas and Peter both denied and betrayed Him as Christians, because they had freewill to do so, just like Satan had freewill in heaven to do what he did, and just like so many Christians do today, by leaving, denying the faith, committing sin.

What is most sad is this Christian I referred to living in sin right now is doing so because of messages he's been told like you're telling. He's been brainwashed into believing he is already saved and he can now do whatever he wants- that it's impossible to lose his salvation. And now he's enjoying sin and doing all kinds of evil, because he was told he's saved and in the book of life. Christians who think they can get by with committing unlimited sin are completely ignoring what Jesus said. ( John 14:15). That's like slapping Jesus in the face. Romans 14:13. We are to not cause others to stumble.

With that comment I feel the need to say that I had the holy spirit before I was baptized. It was the reason I was baptized in the first place... I had always been raised Baptist so i didn't want to be wrong and be baptized. One day I was thinking hard about being baptized and talking with lord as I always have. I realized I must have always had him with me and was looking for more to prove it. When here I was talking with him and knew it made me feel like a bright light. Honestly every time I talk to the lord I can feel him here. It's as if I have a bright light in my soul and the more I talk the brighter it gets. The feeling is as if you could float away! Instantly I remembered one of my favorite song as a child which was this Little light of mine.. Guys in that very moment I understood it all!! It's amazing how good and powerful our lord is! He is sooooo good all the time. I have always been blessed with being raised in a Christian family. He was always there and I had always known him. I just didn't know that everyone wasn't raised that way. So plz just sit and talk with our savior and discover your light! Because it's the most amazing relationship and we all should have that experience! Let it shine SO bright! He is the light and the way! So open your heart!

Hello Gregory, I literally feel your pain, and have asked these same questions after my husband of 26 years passed away 5 months ago. The reality of the fact that life is going on without them is starting to set in. If we (you) have accepted the Lord Jesus Christ's payment for our sins ( John 3:16) and have been born again into the family of God, then we can claim and stand upon the precious promises of God given in His Word. He will never leave us nor forsake us, and promised to send us a "Comforter" which is the Holy Spirit. He strengthens our faith and reminds us of the Blessed Hope we have through Christ. The Blessed Hope is that this world is not our home, and that the Lord will come back, just as He said He would. This Blessed Hope and His truly AMAZING Grace is what has helped me hold myself and my family together. This verse has helped me tremendously :

II Corinthians 12:9

And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

It is when we are weak that we can feel His perfect strength to help us. Just like his grace, we receive it when we need it. Not a moment too soon, and NEVER late, but right on time. He doesn't give us tomorrows grace today. I have learned more about the faithfulness of God in the last 6 months than in the 40 years that I have been a child of God. Draw closer (nigh) to God and he will draw closer to you. Talk to Him, bear your soul to Him. Read your Bible and look for His answers to you. Cling to every promise, count every blessing, continue your walk with the Lord. If you attend a good KJV Bible preaching church, go everytime you can. The Lord has amazed me with messages that our Pastor gives that are exactly what I needed when I needed it. Much love and prayers as you work though your loss...

Hi Vince,

I'm not here to get in between this discussion. Just wondering who are "these people" who teach and keep people from reading the Old Testament you have stated twice now? Obviously no one here, I know of, as the Old Testament is regularly spoken of and promoted.

There is a New Testament(Covenant). Here's God speaking of it in the Old Testament, Jeremiah 31:31-34. Yes the Old Testament is quoted several hundred times in the New Testament. Though there are many things in the New Testament not in the Old Testament.

Just to be clear to maybe help others you are conversing with. What are God's Laws or God's Commandments you are stating we should follow? All of the 613 Mitzvot laws or just the Ten Commandments?

Jesus Christ is the way.

1 John 3:22-24 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of Him, because we keep His commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.

And this is His commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

And he that keepeth His commandments dwelleth in Him, and He in him. And hereby we know that He abideth in us, by the Spirit which He hath given us.

Romans 13:8 & 10 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

God Bless.

Joyce, If you believe....you have been chosen. John 3:16 will confirm that. It says "Whosoever"! Hallelujah!

This verse in Romans does give me a glimmer of hope regarding some of my family/friends whom I do not know if I will be reunited with them in Paradise. Only God knows....and He may do as He wishes.

2 THINGS:-

1. Believing without repentance in the Gospel of John

2. Repentance can be a bad thing - Exodus

GOSPEL OF JOHN

The gospel of John, as it ends tells the reader that he is writing the book for people to get saved/ believe. He says in John 20:30-31 ---> And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But THESE ARE WRITTEN, THAT YE MIGHT BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS THE CHRIST, THE SON OF GOD, AND THAT BELIEVING YE MIGHT HAVE LIFE THROUGH HIS NAME. It's the ONLY book that brings people to salvation, because most books in the NT are written to the church. MOST. But Gospel of John is written so that people might believe..

YET,

Nowhere in the whole gospel of John do you encounter the word "repent" . If its a book that claims to get people saved, you should at least get word repent even one time but its not there, but guess what! the word "believe" appears in the gospel of John 46 times(if my counting is correct). Look at some verses:-

John 1:7 - The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

John 1:12 - But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 6:69 - And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

John 11:27 - She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

REPENTANCE IN EXODUS

Exodus 13:17 - And it came to pass, when Pharaoh had let the people go, that God led them not through the way of the land of the Philistines, although that was near; for God said, Lest peradventure the people repent when they see war, and they return to Egypt:

Here repentance is a bad thing because they would "turn" back to Egypt when they see war..

Hi Bob..

As incouragement I believe the Lord hand is mighty!! He has No problem reserving his precious word.

Can you imagine IF little man can snatch a word or 2 out of scripture and derail Gods redemptive plan for all creation? That would render Christ dying on the cross and the resurrection as vain. Our salvation wasn't the only thing depending on the cross, Our sanctification, spiritual walk, and Wisdom depends on it as well.

HE CANT!

If you took John 3:16 out the bible it wouldn't make not difference, The message is embodied throughout the scripture.

Isaiah 28:9-10 . Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

And yes we should study ALL the scripture, However your increase comes from the Lord, not repetition.

The natural man no not the things of the Lord, neither can he.

You can read the Bible a 1000 times and still be a baby in Christ or not in Christ at all.

It's his word in you that bares fruit.

God bless.

Phil, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

CHRIST'S rule upon earth is not done from the natural Jerusalem existing in Israel east of the Mediterranean Sea; it is done through NEW JERUSALEM described in Revelation 21.

Revelation 21:22 And I saw NO TEMPLE therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the LAMB are THE TEMPLE OF IT.

Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was offered ONCE to BEAR THE SINS of many; and unto them that (the SPIRIT causes) to look for him shall he APPEAR THE SECOND TIME (second coming) WITHOUT SIN UNTO SALVATION.

NEW JERUSALEM is ruling NOW. You can live in NEW JERUSALEM NOW.

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a NEW HEAVEN and NEW EARTH (born of the SPIRIT): for the First heaven and the first earth were passed away (died on the cross with CHRIST);and there was no more sea (that the beast came out of). Revelation 13:1

Revelation 21:2 And I John saw (in vision) the holy city, New Jerusalem, COMING DOWN FROM GOD (SPIRIT) out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

John 3:13 No man has ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is IN HEAVEN (CHRIST IN YOU Colossians 1:27)

1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and the SPIRIT OF GOD DWELLETH IN YOU.

Revelation 21:3 And I heard a great voice (Holy Spirit) out of heaven saying, Behold, THE TABERNACLE OF GOD IS WITH MEN, and HE SHALL DWELL WITH THEM, and they shall be his people, and GOD HIMSELF (SPIRIT) shall be with them (and in them), an be their God.

WE SUFFER in THIS FLESH; until this flesh dies, and we are given the BODY OF CHRIST.

1 Corinthians 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have PUT ON incorruption, and this mortal MUST PUT ON immortality.

1 Timothy 6:16 ....Who ONLY hath immortality.....

Luke 1:69 ..raised up a HORN of salvation...

Revelation 17:16-17 and the ten HORNS (saved) ... shall hate the whore, and shall make her DESOLATE and NAKED, and shall eat her flesh, and BURN HER WITH FIRE.

Rebirth Scriptures(Born Again): John 3:3 KJV., John 3:5-8 KJV., 2Cor. 5:17 KJV., Mark 16:16 KJV, Titus 3:5, Romans 6:4 KJV., 1Peter 3:21 KJV.

Acts 2:37-38 KJV., what Israel(Jews) must do. Acts 10:44:48 KJV., the Holy Spirit(Ghost) given to the Gentiles(Greeks). In verse. 8, Peter commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord(Jesus Christ). Jews and Gentiles were baptized by water in the name of the Lord(Jesus Christ). Acts 15:5-9 KJV., question at issue(Gentiles being circumcised). In Verse 7 Peter is speaking Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. In Acts 2 Peter used the keys(Jesus gave him the keys in Matthew 16:19 KJV.) first for the Jews, and in Acts 10 second, in the house of Cornelius for the Gentiles)(but Paul was distinctively(plainly) the apostle of the Gentiles, Gal. 2:7,8).

Paul speaking( 1Corinthians 15:1-10). Not only being filled with the Holy Ghost, Saul/Paul was baptized with water in the name of the Lord(Jesus Christ).

Saul's/Paul's Conversion: Acts 9:17-19 KJV; Paul's Defense before the multitude: recounts his conversion. Acts 22:11-16; Paul's defense before Agrippa. Acts 26:9-18. In verse. 18, that they may receive forgiveness of sins( Romans 3:23)

1 Corinthians 3:5-8 KJV: 5. Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6. I(Paul) have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase(Holy Ghost) 7. So then neither is he that planteth anything, neither he that watereth, but God that giveth the increase(Holy Ghost). 8. Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labor.

1 Timothy 1:1 KJV Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope. Think about this, what is the father's name on a Birth Certificate? What name is the child born into physically? See 1John5:1-20

KJV., being baptized in the name of (Jesus Christ): The Foundation

REPENTANCE NOT NEEDED FOR SALVATION - ONLY BELIEVING

Dear readers, I have heard lots of sermons that teach that one must repent to be saved. I believe this is a false doctrine because NOWHERE in the whole Bible does anyone teach it. All the Scriptures teach is just believing:-

But what does the Bible actually teach about salvation and about repentance? Here are a few verses:-

John 1:7

The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

John 1:12

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

John 6:29

Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

John 3:16

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Acts 15:11

But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Acts 16:31

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Romans 3:22

Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Romans 10:9

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

REPENTANCE IS: TO turn from what you were doing wrong to doing it right. Its actually more of a turning. And repentance does not necessarily mean "repent from your sins". In fact in the Scriptures, God repented more than anyone else. Does that mean He is a sinner? NO!! He turned from doing what He wanted to do at first! e.g

Jonah 3:9-10

Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not? And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

In all kindness. Like stated if you think that shall do better please do it.

So even though "hel" and "hell" sound exactly the same when you say them now it's down to how you spell the word? Not how it sounds? As stated this to me would be going down a rabbit hole.

About the story of the "rusty bones" do you think the mother was putting some curse on the child or something by saying that? My father used to tell me eating the crust of bread would give me curly hair. Obviously not true. To think that mans knee problem had anything to do with what his mother told him is pretty much a long shot. I'd probably start asking about the mans life. I know many people who have bad knees and are still in their thirties. Along with older who have had knee replacements. It's not because of what their parents told them either.

One thing I was thinking about sharing with you was my grandmother. I used to always wonder why she never replied back to me after I told her I loved her. Though I cannot imagine having a more loving, precious, grandmother than her whom I was blessed to have. She did not have to say she loved me every time I saw her. I truly don't have one memory of her where she did not have a smile on her face and was so loving and caring toward me. She was such a good person and I know she is at peace with God now. She probably knew that saying "I love you" too much would get old and she didn't need to say it. I know she loved me dearly by who she was. Not her saying it.

As I will not use the word you don't like here anymore only for you. Not that it will do any difference though like I stated I am only thinking of you.

And maybe to make you feel better know that when I say "that word you don't like"(which I still use as there is no wrong to it) it sounds like "hallo" with smiles.

Showing our love toward one another in deeds in life is very much more important than just words. 1 John 3:18.

God Bless you Sam.

Lee, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

John did not go to heaven. He saw a VISION. Heavens doors were opened. The TRADITIONS OF MAN has done great harm to the truth of the scriptures.

John 3:13 NO man has ASCENDED up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man WHICH IS IN HEAVEN.

Colossians 1:27 .....MYSTERY among the Gentiles; which is CHRIST IN YOU....

John 3:13 ....says even the Son of man WHICH IS IN HEAVEN; Colossians 1:27 says CHRIST IN YOU. Traditions of man says heaven is a PLACE; scripture says HEAVEN IS A PERSON.

You are where GOD DWELLS; you are HEAVEN where GOD'S temple and throne is, you are the DOORS and/or GATES to heaven. The 24 (not necessarily literally 24;but, representing) those that have gone before you in truth; now at Christ's feet. This is how GOD DWELLS ON EARTH; IN YOU, EACH ONE OF US. Christ is our HIGH PRIEST; we are a kingdom of priest; a ROYAL PRIESTHOOD.

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a CHOSEN GENERATION, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people...

WORSHIP AND GIVE THANKS TO HIM.

The scriptures will make more sense to you when you start seeing heaven as people. MOST don't know Christ dwells in them (they think they are going to a place), that's why there is so much confusion and sin in this world. If you haven't come to the truth that CHRIST IS IN YOU then Satan still has his dwelling place in you.

Matthew 12:28 If I cast out devils by the SPIRIT OF GOD, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

It's more than just believe and go to a PLACE CALLED HEAVEN.

How can we find the fulfillment of an OT verse marked with white star, and black star fulfillment in NT?

Dixie, the closest passage that comes to mind in the NT is found in James 1:19: "Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath". But this verse would apply generally, that a person ought to listen first & then speak and certainly in the case with God, that we would always have our ears inclined towards Him.

We see the division of the Land of Canaan "by lot" quite often, beginning at Joshua 13:6: "All the inhabitants of the hill country from Lebanon unto Misrephothmaim, and all the Sidonians, them will I drive out from before the children of Israel: only divide thou it by lot unto the Israelites for an inheritance, as I have commanded thee."

We're not told how Joshua made the "division of the land for an inheritance unto the nine tribes, and the half tribe of Manasseh" (v7), whether by a Word from God or by simply dividing up the land & allocating portions to the tribes of Israel (not forgetting that Levi, Manasseh & Ephraim received no allocation). Maybe, the tribes that received their portions had some say as to where they would prefer to settle on the western side of the Jordan River. So to 'divide by lot' in this case, would mean to allocate the land to the various tribes, whether by 'lottery' or specifically according to the tribes' preferences.

Text: Matthew 24:1-14.

Theme: Christ's prophecy what is to come in the future.

Intro: Christ prophesied Matthew 24 when He was departing from the temple: the disciples

followed Him and asked Him a question that triggered the disciples' hearts, Jesus tells them that

Jerusalem including the temple shall be destroyed. False religion, false doctrine and false gospel

shall abound. False Christ including false prophets shall appear and seduce many, Nations and

kingdom shall rise up against each other, nation betray nation and kingdom betray kingdom.

Pestilence, natural disasters shall occur, believers shall be myrted, mankind betray one another,

and the hearts of many shall wax cold toward God, parents and friends. The good news is, Christ

comforts His disciple Matt 24:6b.

Hello brother Earl,

Again I thank you for your replies. As it is our destiny to grow in the Spirit of Christ and see with His eyes.

As the ways of God are beyond what I could fathom. Truly my faith in God and Jesus Christ being, that whatever the way of the Lord is, I know it is the right way and I am His forever. Even if I don't understand. Keeping root in the Word with a pure heart and staying close to the Lord. He shall direct us down the straight and narrow path. His Will shall be done.

Weather we believe "hell" to be a place of eternal torment like stated in Matthew 25:46. Or as you explain. It is a place we do not want to go or have anything to do with. Christ stating in Matthew 10:28.

As we who are in Christ here are Blessed to have been chosen by Him to be His.

In 1 Corinthians 16:22 stating those who "love not the Lord"(not with the Lord) to basically let him be set aside for the coming Judgement of the Lord.

A couple about saving a soul. As we can only plant or water, it is God who gives the growth. James 5:19-20, Jude 1:23.

Again thank you for your time and posts brother. It means a lot.

God Bless you Earl. Have a wonderful day!

what dose lot mean in joshua 16

Julie,

It means that we enter into God's rest. It's speaking about salvation. In Chapter 4, the writer is going back to creation. He's saying if you surrender to Christ, you will be doing just what God did. You will cease from your own works, your own efforts, at your own salvation, you will cease from your own works, and you will enter into God's rest.

When a person receives Jesus Christ and has been born of His Spirit, that person enters into His rest.

where in the new testament that it says close your mouth and listen to God

Brother Richard, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and His understanding.

I believe if there is a second death; there has to also be a first death.

Two resurrections; therefore, two deaths.

God is no respector of person; therefore, if the ones in second resurrection die (are judged) in the lake of fire; the ones in the first resurrection also die (are judged) in the lake of fire.

When Christ caused us to become one with him (CHRIST IN US) we we cast into (CHRIST) the lake of fire. To partake of the bread of life and the fountain of living water we also have to partake of the judgement of fire. As the bread and water gives us life, the fire cleanses and purifies us. We are being judged in the lake of fire (word of God) now; therefore, we want have our part in the lake of fire at the second resurrection.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is APPOINTED unto men once to die, but after this the judgement:

We died with Christ on the Cross (first death). We are being judged IN CHRIST now, BY THE WORD, BY FIRE. Those appointed the second death will be judged IN CHRIST ( Hebrews 10:31), BY THE WORD, BY FIRE.

Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was offered once for the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear a SECOND TIME (NOW, to those in the first resurrection the second coming is NOW; we don't have to wait for the literal appearance of Christ) WITHOUT SIN UNTO SALVATION.

For those in the second resurrection their judgement IN CHRIST is going to last awhile. Matthew says those that blaspheme the Holy Spirit want be saved in this age or the next age. This age so far has lasted 2000 years. We don't know how long the next age will last.

I believe those in the second resurrection will be raised back in bodies of flesh. The first resurrection, glorified bodies.

Revelation 20:7 ...Satan (flesh) will be loosed out of his prison (death and the grave),

1 Corinthians 15:40 celestial (glorified); terrestrial (flesh and blood)

Sacha, it is possible that the OT folk knew something of a suffering beyond the grave, but I agree that there's not a lot mentioned in that respect. We could look at Daniel 12:2: "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." Here the thought is that those who die will awake (resurrection?), some to everlasting life & some to everlasting contempt. So even if one doesn't believe in a never-ending suffering, this verse shows that the dead don't remain dead but arise to some sort of judgement & punishment that doesn't end.

Isaiah 30:33: "For Tophet is ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared; he hath made it deep and large: the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it." In this verse, the word "Tophet" is used & in the Greek (NT) is translated as Gehenna. This was a place near Jerusalem, in which the idolatrous Israelites used to offer up their children to Moloch. It may be put, for any place of torment; and particularly it is put for hell. "For the king": For the king of Assyria. "Fire": He alludes to the ancient custom, of burning sacrifices, and particularly of burning children to Moloch. "The breath": The immediate Hand of God, or His Word of anger. "Brimstone": alludes to that shower of fire and brimstone seen in Gen 19:24. Though this verse doesn't speak of an after death judgement, it reveals its counterpart in the NT.

You can also look at Isaiah 66:22-24. So I can't say why there was not more written about this subject in the OT & even among Jews there are different camps as to what to believe. For me, I think it sufficient that Jesus spoke very clearly about it & treated the everlasting suffering of the sinner as real & it was for this reason He came so that none should fall under the Hand of God ( Hebrews 10:31).

1 Corinthians 5:3

For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,

2 Corinthians 5:6

Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

2 Corinthians 5:8

We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

1 Corinthians 15:44

It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Philippians 3:21

Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Romans 7:24

O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Genesis 1

26 And God said, Let us make man in OUR IMAGE, after OUR LIKENESS...

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Comment by Mishael:

When Adam and Eve were created, they were comprised of spirit+soul+flesh. After they ate the fruit, their spirit connection was cut off from God. After the Cross: The reconnection was made available. "For God so loved the world..." John 3:16

1 Corinthians 13:9-12

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect (Jesus) is come, then that which is IN PART shall be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man (spiritual), I put away childish things.

12 For NOW WE SEE through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know, even as also I am known.

I'm all for doctrine, theology, original languages. Jesus told us to be as little children. Don't make it so hard. We don't have another 2000 years to help people believe on Jesus for salvation. Selah.

I'm sorry Sacha: and why is this Scripture given to me? If you are thinking that the Scripture is intended to show that God will do nothing about those who have rejected Him & therefore just leave them in the grave, then I don't believe that this indicates this at all. But then again, I might be mistaken by your intentions, so I apologize for writing my next paragraph (which may not be what you're wanting).

So here goes: Amos 3:7 read in context from the beginning of the chapter, tells us about Amos' rebuke against Israel: just as a lion doesn't roar when hunting for its prey; as a lion cub won't cry out if it is satisfied with food; as a bird can't be snared if there is no trap; as a (warning) trumpet will not sound if there is no danger to the people - so too with God - He will remain quiet ("He will do nothing") to His people, but will reveal His secrets (or, His intentions) to His prophets. So the message here is that when the prophet (of God) is commanded to speak by God, the people better sit up & listen hard, as the judgement of God is about to fall upon them.

If this is not what you are anticipating, then please write further. Thank you.

Thank you very much for all your time replying with me brother Earl. As the ways of God are far surpassing what I could fully understand. I truly am a baby in Christ. Though I am His for eternity and all I want to do is His Will and make our Lord happy.

I very much appreciate all you have shared with me Earl.

May our Father pour His Blessings upon you my brother.

Thank you for your reply my brother Earl,

I very much appreciate your time. As your reply lead me to do some reading about the "resurrections". Us in Christ being part of the first resurrection having no part in the lake of fire or "second death". Revelation 20:6.

As our Lord Jesus Christ being raised from the dead is our confirmation that there shall be a resurrection of our actual physical bodies. Acts 17:24-31.

In that the second resurrection is for all the people quoted in Revelation 21:8 as you stated. Those who are not with Christ.

As you have stated before "all shall worship God" with Scripture of it. As it is detailed in the Book of Enoch this is also correct though it shall not save them. From the second death or the lake of fire.

62.5 And one half of them will look at the other, and they will be terrified, and will cast down their faces, and pain will take hold of them when they see that Son of a woman sitting on the throne of His Glory.

62.6 And the mighty kings, and all those who possess the earth, will praise and bless and exalt Him who rules everything that is hidden.

62.7 For from the beginning that Son of Man was hidden, and the Most High kept Him in the presence of His power, and revealed Him only to the chosen.

62.9 And all the mighty kings, and the exalted, and those who rule the dry ground, will fall down before Him, on their faces, and worship; and they will set their hopes on that Son of Man, and will entreat Him, and will petition for mercy from Him.

62.10 But the Lord of Spirits will then so press them that they will hasten to go out from before Him, and their faces will be filled with shame, and the darkness will grow deeper on their faces.

Do you agree with these Scriptures?

As I also just want to be clear in what you believe the "second death" is. That this is where those souls/spirits will be separated from God, and us, for eternity? Or something else?

Thank you brother Earl.