Discuss John 3 Page 42

Brother Richard, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

If were are judged by Christ, sanctified by Christ, justified by Christ, cleansed by Christ, saved by Christ and our God is a consuming fire; therefore we have our part in the lake of fire or the fire of the Lord.

Being one with Christ we also become the fire of the Lord. Those in the second resurrection are going to be judge by fire (us). They will be resurrected in TORMENTS not having living water.

Zachariah 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto (new) Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of host, even upon them SHALL BE NO RAIN (living water).

Amos 8:11 Behold the days comes, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of (natural) bread, nor a thirst for (natural) water, but of hearing the WORDS OF GOD (living bread and living water)

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You're welcome

Richard..

Brother Richard, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

The lake of fire is the same thing; that, in the Old Testament was called the Fire of the Lord. Natural eyes see this as literal fire; but is it?

Judges 6:20 And the angel of the Lord said unto him, take the flesh and unleavened cakes (represents us) and lay them upon this rock (represents Christ), and pour out the broth And he did so.

Judges 6:21 Then the angel of the LORD put forth the end of the staff that was in his hand, and touched the flesh and unleavened cakes (US), and there rose up fire from OUT OF THE ROCK (OUR GOD IS A CONSUMING FIRE), and consumed the flesh and unleavened cakes (US).

Zachariah 14:12 ......Their flesh shall consume away while they stand on their feet....

Revelation 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword (is the word of GOD, God is FIRE) of him upon the horse, which sword (WORD) proceeded out of his mouth; and all the fowls were filled with their (own) flesh.

To understand who the fowls are; we have to go to the parable of the sower of the seed.

Luke 8:5 A sower went out to so his seed; and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the FOWLS OF THE AIR devoured it.

Luke 8:11 Now the parable is this: THE SEED IS THE WORD OF GOD.

Luke 8:12 Those by the way side are those that hear, then cometh the devil (fowls or the air)....

Luke 13:19 It (kingdom of heaven; Christ in you) is like a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and cast into his garden; and it grew, and waxed a great tree; and the fowls of the air (devil) lodged therein.

John 15:5 I am the vine; ye are the branches (where the fowls lodge)...

Psalms 104:12 By them shall the fowls of the air have their habitation, which sing among the branches.

Matthew 12:28 But if I cast out DEVILS by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God (CHRIST IN YOU) is come unto you.

Brother Richard, may CHRIST IN US grace us with his wisdom and His understanding.

There is two groups of people in God's Kingdom. The ones being called NOW; resurrected with Christ, will be the ROYAL PRIESTHOOD.

Revelation 5:10

Daniel 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, SHALL BE GIVEN to the people of the saints (priest) of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and ALL DOMINIONS SHALL SERVE AND OBEY HIM (being made one with Christ they will obey us also).

Those raised at the second resurrection are the ones under the authority of God's priest and judges.

Revelation 2:26-27

Psalms 2:8-10

Revelation 3:9

Psalms 149:9

Brother Richard, it should be Psalms 24:9 Lift up your heads, O ye gates, even lift them up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in (to new Jerusalem).

Thank you for your reply earl. I like that about us being the precious stones. One thing is the Psalms verse you quoted about the one pearl. Seems to be a little typo as Psalms 23 only goes up to verse 6. I'm interested in the verse you have for that.

As we are the tabernacle of God where He dwells. Revelation 21:3. If I may ask one question. In Revelation 21:7-8. How God speaks of two "groups" of people. They that overcometh which are His. Then basically the wicked who have their part in the lake of fire. How do you perceive this?

As you stated Revelation not being "literal" (which shall disappear or pass away). I understand as those things being in the Spirit world and not of this physical world which is all vanity. The breadth of God. Job 34:14-15.

God Bless.

Brother Richard, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

Thank you for looking up the word "torments."

Matthew 4:24 And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and TORMENTS, and those that were possessed with devils, and those that were lunatick, and those that had the palsy, AND HE HEALED THEM.

Luke 16:23 And in hell (grave) he lift up his eyes, being in TORMENTS and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Luke 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of TORMENT.

1 Corinthians 15:55 O death, where is thy sting, O grave (hell), were is thy victory?

If I am not mistaken; the same Greek word is used in both Luke 16:23 and 1 Corinthians 15:55. Therefore; Christ, at his resurrection, had victory over both; DEATH and the GRAVE (hades) and HELL (hades).

I BELIEVE that both verse mean the grave. Death and the grave are the wages of sin.

Since Judah was the only one that had five brothers and the Pharisees claimed to be of the house of Judah. Jesus was telling the Pharisees the first will be last and the last will be first. They WOULD NOT be part of the first resurrection but would have to wait until the second resurrection. They would be in TORMENT(not having drank from the living water); but after the second resurrection they would be healed as described in Matthew 4:24.

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel SHALL BE SAVED.....

You are quite welcome Adam,

Nice. That site I usually use for paralleling verses from different versions of the Bible.

I agree with your perception on the "fear of God". When you are with the Lord and have a fear/reverence and pure love to Him. Being His precious child. Giving yourself to Him. There is nothing else to fear. Not even the devil himself.

God Bless.

Annet, you may be referring to Lilith found in some Jewish folklore, Sumerian and Babylonian stories. I believe she is described as some kind of demon of the night with the sound of a screech owl. You can google her name, but there is no evidence in scripture of her and Eve was Adams first and only wife by scripture. A lot of these myths were written from stories about the time of Nimrod like Gilgamesh, be careful it is a large rabbit hole.

God bless, Ron

Hi Sacha,

No problem, please don't take any of my replies harshly. We are conversing peacefully. Saying I don't understand why you quoted those verses to what I stated is that the Holy Bible teaches of a place of eternal torment, or simply hell, and this is not my own teaching(or commandment of men). It is from the Word of God. Also the verses from Revelation. A place of eternal torment is from the Scriptures. Those two contexts of questions was just to show how one way would do no wrong, in the end, and the other way would lead to damnation. The reason I believe in a "hell". Because of the Holy Bible.

Here's other verses not in the NT about this "place". Just to show there are records of this before the NT. From the Book of Enoch.

62.10 But the Lord of Spirits will then so press them that they will hasten to go out from before Him, and their faces will be filled with shame, and the darkness will grow deeper on their faces.

62.11 And the Angels of Punishment will take them so that they may repay them for the wrong that they did to His children and to His chosen ones.

63.10 Then they will say to them: "Our souls are sated with possessions gained through iniquity, but they do not prevent our going down into the flames of the torment of Sheol."

108.4 And there I saw something like a cloud, which could not be discerned, for because of its depth I was not able to look into it. And the flames of a fire I saw, burning brightly, and things like bright mountains revolved and shook from side to side.

108.5 And I asked one of the Holy Angels, who were with me, and I said to him: "What is this bright place? For there is no sky, but only the flames of a burning fire, and the sounds of crying, and weeping, and moaning, and severe pain."

108.6 And he said to me: "This place which you see; here will be thrown the spirits of the sinners, blasphemers, those who do evil, and of those who alter everything that the Lord has spoken through the mouths of the prophets. "



Amen

Richard, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS knowledge.

HEAVEN

Flesh sees everything as natural. Heaven to natural eyes is out there somewhere. In Revelation where new Jerusalem is described; flesh sees this as a literal city with literal mansions and literal streets and literal trees and literal rivers. Bodies that have been glorified don't need houses or streets or walls or gates. We are the houses (mansions) of God, we are the streets of gold, we are the foundations of the city, we are NEW JERUSALEM. Revelation describes the foundation as twelve precious and costly stones. We are those (living) ( 1 Peter 2:4) stones that make up the city of new Jerusalem. We are the gates made of one pearl ( Psalms 23:9). Revelation represents something that is not LITERAL (which shall disappears)

Hebrews 12:27 And this word, Yet once more, SIGNIFIETH the REMOVING of those things that are shaken, as of things that are MADE, that those things WHICH CANNOT BE SHAKEN REMAIN.

This is why you don't see prophecies of heaven; WE ARE HEAVEN, WHERE GOD DWELLS.

Luke 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven (you) shall be SHAKEN.

Job 38:13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the WICKED might be SHAKEN out of it?

Mark 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

We are the stars of heaven (God's promise to Abraham that his seed would be as the stars of heaven)

The powers (of Satan that rules by natural flesh) in heaven (US) shall be SHAKEN (flesh will be destroyed and replaced by Spirit)

Revelation is all about the removing of the LITERAL and replacing with the SPIRIT.

A new heaven a new earth.

Great, thank you Richard.

What I was hoping to compare is the word for fear in 1 John 4:18 (perfect love cast out fear) vs. Luke 12:5 (fear him... who can cast you to hell).

So, I found Bible Hub has a Greek interlinear comparison and found the following:

1 John 4:18 (perfect love cast out fear): fear = Phobos/phobon (fear, terror, alarm; object or cause of fear; reverence, respect.

Luke 12:5 (fear him... who can cast you to hell): fear = phobthte (to frighten, be alarmed by. By analogy, to be in awe of; Revere.)

It appears to be the same root word, but just like in English its common to have different meanings for the same word, like the word 'conceive'. So, I believe at bare minimum fearing God means to be in upmost awe of and reverence. The context of being afraid of the one who can send you to hell seems to indicate a dose of real fear as well, maybe similar to a child being afraid when they risk doing something wrong and fear punishment by their parents, but I think this is different than fear/terror that perhaps is used in 1 John 4:18, that perfect love will get rid of that.

Interested if anyone else has another perspective on this.

Hi Laura,

No it's not. It's an outward expression of what Christ done on the Cross.

HI Annet,

Do you have a scripture to support the possibility of another woman before Eve?

Eve was Made from Adams rib, Why go through the trouble if Adam could have just Married her.

Chris ,Amos ch3 v7 . Thats from the O.T.

Hi Richard in Christ , im very sorry if you dont understand my refference to your words : i just really see it as if we say there is a hell and there really isnt what wrong are we doing ? and Jesus saying : But in vain do they worship me ,teaching for doctrines the commandments of men ,and from revelation : For i testify unto every man that heareth the words if the prophecy of this book , If any man shall add unto these things ,God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book . Im very sorry if you cant see how your words are connected to these references .

Unknown at that time ,at that time ,God had a very up close and personal relationship with Israel ,He appeared to them often and spoke to them often throug signs and wonders and prophets ,do you think He would have kept something as important as that from His witnesses ? If yes ,why do you think He would have kept something as important as that from His witnesses ? Im giving up now ,i know what you think and i know what i know , i hope we can chat on a different subject some time ,love in Christ .p.s. Thats not a rhetorical question ,please answer if thats ok with you .

Hi Sacha. You're bringing the OT to find justification for "eternal torture by hideous demons". And you're right, you won't find it here as that was unknown at that time. All that was quoted was the word 'sheol', which sometimes applied to hell or the grave and often, as in Psalm 37, the wicked will be "cut off" of suffer under the Hand of God. Nowhere do we see a Lake of Fire & eternal suffering.

And that is why we have all of Scripture to consider on this matter. If all we had was the OT, then I could well agree with you that death was our punishment & final resting place. But the NT, specifically Jesus' own Words while on Earth (the Gospels) & from Heaven (the Revelation), show us more of this place of punishment which wasn't revealed in its fullness in the OT.

And yet I thought further on this matter & the Gospel now given to us. Let's suppose, I, as an unbeliever was being witnessed to by you & you spoke to me about the life-changing, life-giving message of the Gospel through God's Son. You talked about the resurrection to eternal life & eternal bliss with God, forever enjoying God's Presence & Heaven's blessings. But I, as a hardened sinner, asked "what would happen if I enjoyed my sinful lifestyle as it gave me much pleasure & refused God's offer of salvation?" Of course, your response would be, "as an unrepentant sinner, rejecting God's offer of salvation, you would not be received into God's Kingdom & you wouldn't have eternal life". But I insist, "but what happens to me & those who refuse to accept Jesus as my Saviour?" Your answer would have to be, "you will remain in the grave, dead, & lost without any hope". And I would say, "well we all have to die & some of us (most of us) will just remain dead". Do you see what I'm saying Sacha? Death is not the punishment - we all have to experience it because we're sinners. The Gospel in its fullness is 'salvation through faith in Jesus Christ from both sin's penalty & eternal punishment'. They both go together.

Page 2.

Re: the Lake of Fire. It is prepared for the Devil & his angels ( Matthew 25:41) but is also the place where all Christ-rejecters go to in the final judgement ( Revelation 20:10-15) & particularly verse 15, "whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." And that includes not only the Devil & his angels but also the anti-Christ, the false prophet & all mankind that were not found in the Book of Life.

"Who created such a place?" I would say that God has done this. "Who does "the torturing in hell?" No one - it is a place of continual fire where the act of dying is continual but death that is longed for never comes ( Mark 9:43-48).

And these are not parables by Jesus; Jesus is telling us what lies beyond the grave. And that is why Jesus came to die on our behalf: that we might be spared God's Judgement to enjoy new life on Earth & then eternity in His Presence. As I mentioned before, if just dying & returning to dust was our punishment, the Gospel would be practically meaningless, as we all have to die & enter into such a state of 'oblivion'. But Jesus says that some will awake to "the resurrection of life & some to the resurrection of damnation" ( John 5:29). There is no permanent middle ground at the graveside - we all have to go somewhere else - and that's why the Gospel is so special & precious: it saves a person entirely, both in this life and the next.

Hi Adam,

Just thought I'd look into the words for "fear" as you stated. The Hebrew seems to use two different words that are slightly different though close to the same word. "Yare" as "fearing; morally reverent, afraid" and "yirah" as "fear (also used as infinitive); morally reverence fear, terror, fearing, awesome or terrifying thing (object causing fear), fear (of God), respect, piety, revered".

The Greek words are "phobos" as "alarm or fright, fear, dread, terror, that which strikes terror, reverence for one's husband" and "phobeo" as "to frighten that is (passively) to be alarmed; by analogy to be in awe of that is revere, to reverence, venerate, to treat with deference or reverential obedience" simply.

Page 1.

To respond to your questions Sacha: "The soul that sinneth it shall die, if I were not saved what would I prefer to happen to me after death, eternal infernal torture by some horrifying demon or to just cease to exist?" I believe that you're quoting from Ezekiel chapter 18; if so, then this chapter speaks about the punishment of a son for his father's sins. The answer is that each one is responsible for his own sins (verses 4 & 20). So the death spoken of here is not one of judgement in the afterlife but of punishment received now (i.e. the death sentence) for committing such sins as shown in this chapter. As well, you asked "what would I prefer to happen to me after death". I think we would all prefer to live in total happiness & bliss, but what we prefer to happen to us is not necessarily what God's Justice demands.

Indeed, the "dead know not anything" ( Ecclesiastes 9:5), & as we know that Book is essentially a discussion about life, its vanities & its inconsistencies. So yes, in the grave, the body is not only in decomposition but also has no mental activity - this is simply the state of the dead & not of judgement. The Jews indeed entered into a Covenant relationship with their Creator, but the same Jew has no recourse to that circumcision or to the Law that would usher him into God's Presence, if he chooses to reject the Sacrifice of God in Jesus. Both Jew & Gentile suffer the same fate because of Unbelief & Christ-rejection.

Thank you for your detailed reply S Spencer.



God Bless you.

Hello Sacha,

No need to be sorry, you have created no havoc. As the "everyone is to be saved" part I don't think I stated you said that. Just that I went through thinking that a while ago. Just in line with "no hell" which is what I think you believe.

About the couple verses you stated for me as an answer to the first analogy I wrote "I just really see it as if we say there is a hell and there really isn't what wrong have we done" which is Christ quoting Isaiah 29:13. Which I can't quite link that to this. Then quoting the end of Revelation about changing the prophesies of the Bible. That is why I believe there is a place of eternal torment or "hell". Because the Bible says so. As you didn't reply to the second analogy in that "if people don't believe in "hell" though it really exists". How this could be dangerous to others in my eyes.

As Adam gave a good reply about to "fear God". This teaching is throughout the Bible as we are also to love Him. Say how you would love your dad but if you do something wrong you may be whipped for it and scared to know it's coming. Though this is much higher as with God. A couple more verses for you Psalms 34:9, Psalms 115:13, Proverbs 3:7, Luke 1:50, Romans 3:18, 2 Corinthians 7:1, Hebrews 12:28, Revelation 19:5.

As I have over forty verses to love God.

To the last statement of "if they told you that they had had a near death or actual death experience that fully validated substantiated and confirmed all their religious beliefs ?" Well, as there are hundreds probably thousands of NDE's and some have no experience at all. I have never heard of someone meeting Buddah, Allah, or Muhammed etc. Though I have seen people converted to Christ from those other religions. Even Atheists who didn't believe. As there are many and all are personal and unique. There are many things that connect with the teachings of the Scriptures.

In kindness.

God Bless.

Hello Earl, Thank you also for sharing some of your life here. I think there is definitely a mystery in how and why God draws close to us in what we perceive as good and bad, mountain top or riverbed in this time. The more surrendered we are, the more we are like Him and the less we are of ourselves. The highest honor to the Father is to fully love His Son and live and breathe within Him by free will choice. Still part of the mystery is Jesus as part of the Godhead so he can also by choice be surrendered in the Father and in the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost is also surrendered in God the Father and in God the Son by choice and God the Father by the fact that both the Son and the Holy Ghost are free willed can rest in their surrendered Will as His own. We as born again Christians are called back in this time into this Holy Will by choice to be made free again in this loving, eternal, holy purpose of Jesus Christ with the angels and all of the redeemed. The harvest will be full and complete at the end. Like the natural world, there are parts of what was planted that never make the harvest and have no purpose in the full and abundant harvest and will be forgotten. Spiritually, these forgotten parts, souls, of the planting are aware that the harvest took place without them and they have been separated eternally from the Holy Will of God.

For meditation.

Hello Earl,

I am honored that you shared that history of your life with us. Thank you very much. It means a lot.

I'm not sure what you mean by "I change my mine because you wont find any prophecies of free will, HELL or heaven; only a KINGDOM."

I think you are correct as the statement "free will" is not in the Bible directly. Though several verses that, I believe, point to this are: Joshua 24:15, John 7:17, Galatians 5:13, James 1:13-16. For a couple.

The word "hell" has taken over the Hebrew word "sheol" in the OT. Three Greek words "gehenna" "hades" and "tartarus" in the NT. All described as "bad" places simply.

For Heaven there are numerous as the one used the most in the NT, hundreds of times, is "ouranos". Strongs definition "the sky; by extension heaven (as the abode of God); by implication happiness power: eternity; specifically the Gospel (Christianity)". In John 3:13, John 3:31. Kingdom used a lot together with this word as in Matthew 6:10, Matthew 18:3.

Thanks for your replies Earl.

God Bless.

I would enjoy doing that for you Earl.

The Greek word for "torments" in Luke 16:23 is pronounced "basanos". If you type in "Strongs number G931" on google that will bring up links to this Greek word you can look over.

The definition can be of a "touchstone to test gold or silver". The rest of the definitions are "the rack or instrument of torture by which one is forced to divulge the truth, torture, torment, acute pains, of the pains of a disease, of those in hell after death".

It seems it is only used three times in the NT. Matthew 4:24, Luke 16:23, Luke 16:28.

God Bless.

Hi Richard,

I agree there is a hell. I believe it because the bible says it!

To teach otherwise can be dangerous, It sounds similar to Satan discrediting Gods word when Satan deceived Eve.

"And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:" Genesis 3:4.

And here's scriptural proof they don't just cease from existing.

1st of all the resurrection, and the term we know as the 2nd death.

Acts 24:15. And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a RESURRECTION of the dead, ( both of the just and UNJUST. )

What's the point in raising the unjust just to send them right back to the grave?

Matthew 25:41, 46 (KJV) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:...42..43..44..

...And these shall go away into EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT:

but the righteous into life eternal.

Hell was created for the devil and his angels but his children will go there also, and to take note,

YOU CAN'T WEEP AND NASH TEETH IF YOU NO LONGER EXIST, NEITHER CAN YOU ENDURE EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT.

Matthew 13:42-43. AND SHALL CAST THEM INTO A FURNACE OF FIRE: ""THERE SHALL BE WAILING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.

Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.

Revelation 20:14-15. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the Second death.

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE.

HERE IT SEEMS TO BE A RELOCATION, AND DEATH ( AND HELL IS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE!! )

When the restrainer is taken out of the way

( Thes 2:7 )

you see how evil men really is. War against God ect.

Revelation 16:9. And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.

They'll be just like their father the Devil.

No repentance. Forever tormented.

The scripture is clear.

GB.

In reply to " The 1st commandment is to LOVE God not fear him"

The Bible says many times to fear God. The Bible doesn't say to "not" fear God as you put it. 1 John 4:18 seems to suggest love and fear and opposites. Maybe these are mutually exclusive when it comes to how we treat others, but maybe God in an exception. The Bible clearly says to love God and clearly says to fear God. Therefore, I'm inclined to believe that it's both. Some say the fear means a high level of respect rather than a petrified fear. If anyone wants to compare the original Hebrew or Greek to see if its the same word or not, that might be helpful.

Proverbs 9:10, Ephesians 5:21, Jeremiah 32:39, Luke 12:5, Leviticus 25:17.

Richard, I would like to ask a favour. I don't know how to look up a word in Greek. Would you please look up the Greek word "torments" used in Luke 16:23 and tell me how many other places it appears and how it is applied. Thank you.

Richard, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

I DON'T BELIEVE the scriptures can contradict themselves.

There are hundreds of places in the scriptures that say ALL will worship GOD.

They can not worship God if they are in Hell.



In Ezekiel 5 and Zachariah 13 it says a third will be brought through the fire; Revelation 9:18 says a third are killed by fire, smoke and brimstone. These have to be the same third as in Ezekiel and Zachariah because verse 20 says the rest repented not. This same third is the ones in Revelation 8.

Revelation 19 The whole chapter is about the ones called to the marriage supper. Before we can come to the supper we have to be cleansed. We are cast into the lake of fire (vs 20). We have our flesh destroyed (vs 21). God is no respector of persons. Have we ever been fearful, unbelieving, liars. Revelation 21:8 says all these will have their part in the lake of fire. Did not Christ have victory over DEATH AND THE GRAVE Revelation 20:14 says DEATH AND THE GRAVE were destroyed by the lake of fire.

I BELIEVE ALL THINGS HAVE AN APPOINTED TIME

Ecclesiastes 3

I believe ALL things are by the will of God; good and bad. His will is always carried out by man; but THE WORKS ARE OF GOD. Therefore GOD will have mercy on ALL; but in HIS appointed TIME.

Jeremiah 2:19 Thine own wickedness shall CORRECT THEE ......

Jeremiah 46:28 ......but I will not make a full end of thee, but CORRECT THEE in measure; yet will I not leave thee wholly UNPUNISHED.

Psalms 94:10 He that chastiseth the heathen, shall he not CORRECT? ......

FOR MEDITATION: If the damned have a natural body at their resurrection; literal fire will kill them in a few seconds. If they are resurrected with a glorified body: literal fire can't hurt them.

SPIRITUAL FIRE CAN hurt both; natural and glorified.