Discuss John 4 Page 4

Dying to self checklist (continued)

Serving the brothers and sisters in the Lord. Time and effort as well as finances should be toward supporting the local Body of believers. We are to open up our homes and be open to financial aid for those in need if the Lord has enabled us to do so and also made it clear that we should. We may not be in a state of famine or intense persecution necessitating an Acts 2:45 stance; but we should see the benefit in caring for the needs of each other. Loving the brethren according to 1 John 2:10 shows we are in the light and is commanded by Christ; 1 John 4:20 shows the opposite; we cannot love God and hate our brother.

Sharing in hobbies and interests

Since we bring nothing into this world and cannot take anything with us when we leave; ( 1 Timothy 6:7) why not start giving away things we have collected-(that is something I am starting to do myself). Some things we need to abandon; but things we are talented in and perhaps find some financial gain with why not train others or invest with other believers; or donate to a worthy cause? People of like interests shouldn't be a primary goal; but can be used as a witnessing tool. Discretion as always is needed if it is encouraging hoarding or addictive behaviors among others or ourselves in these situations. This seems to be a strange category here but there are some as I was who tended to obsess on collectables for the sole purpose of my own financial security and gain. This concept also can be extended to transferring what we have done with a career for many years and skills aquired to shift focus toward charity work or eliminating labor costs; for instance in fixing up our local church.

Not putting career ahead of God. Finding a balance between serving our employers honorably and not always seizing every opportunity for extra hours or promotions takes prayer and wisdom. We should pray for doors to open or close according to His will and timing not our own ambition

Good morning all! I found a simple confession of faith regarding The Trinity. The regenerated in Christ must hold to this belief in the Trinity.

Simply "God manifests Himself to us in three different ways, impressing us as three distinct personalities"

1. "GOD THE FATHER.- We (I) recognize Him as the Giver of the Son, and jointly with the Son, as sender of the Holy Ghost. When we call upon God, we usually mean the Father."

2. "GOD THE SON.- We (I) recognize Him as the Son of immaculate conception, the only begotten of the Father, born of a virgin, Mary.- God incarnante in the flesh- sent into the world as the Redeemer of fallen man. Jesus declares Himself one with the Father and is also recognized as God."

3. "GOD THE HOLY GHOST.- We (I) recognize Him as the Spirit of the Living God, sent forth by the Father and the Son, the Reprover of the world and the Guide and abiding Comforter of God's elect. He is to the world today what Christ was to His followers while He lived in the flesh among us." John 4:24

Yes, His Spirit

the Rule & Guide of a Christian life

Who inspired the holy men of God to write the Bible, which the Bible points to as the Giver of all Life, that we may freely become partake of the Life of Christ, that we may possess a personal intimate relationship with our Father though His Son Jesus Christ, who will cleanse us from all sin that we may become sons of God, by which God by His Spirit makes all these thing possible.

1Cor 15:45 Job 33:4 Rom 8:9 John 10:10

The letter can not do this & was not given to do this. Meaning the Strong Concordance or what wherever else their is out there, it maybe helpful to the little children, but its not necessary, man have put them in the place of His Spirit in discerning the things of God.,..

For the Spirit is given for this very purpose to guide, convict, teach, comfort & counsel us. Jesus states, John 16:7

He bringing us into the very Life of God the Scriptures give witness too, that all the holy men & women of God enjoy by His Spirit

John 3:27 God,

For the Father seeketh such to worship Him, meaning being led by His Spirit & Truth in all things that pertaineth to this life & without His Spirit leading us nothing is acceptable to Him. Jesus said that I only say & do as the Father reveals it to Me, our Forerunner

David,

The Spirit will always point to the Life of Christ as our Example, John 17:17-19 meaning the words God's Spirit led Him to say & do, sanctifies Him & us. 1John 2:6 1John 4:17 & will alway align Himself to the Scriptures which He, Himself inspired, along with mans nobler part, "sound reasoning". His Spirit bearing witness with our spirit.

This is not against Scriptures, by no means, but fulfills them, we can't understand the truth imported by them, without the One who inspired them as Scripture plainly reveals 1Cor 2:9-14.

Job 32:8

You keep making these dogmatic statements, contrary to the Scriptures you point too!

Friend, your intoxicated. Rev 17:2 Rev 18:3,4

in L & T

That first sentence is untrue. God is a spirit, not a man. John 4:24. He later created man. Just because man is made in His image doesn't mean He's a man Himself. That would be a false assumption and there's no verses indicating that.

Friends;

I've been reading the comments concerning the word of God, the Bible.

It appears that y'all have come to a conclusion that the Scriptures are to be the rule & guide of a Christian life, or at least finally stated this conclusion. Friends, no its not!

The Guide & Rule of a Christian life is not the Scriptures, but the Spirit, that gave forth the Scriptures

Jesus said, John 16:13, He didn't say the letter would lead us into all truth, but the Spirit. 1John 2:27 2Pet 1:3

Rom 8:14; not the letter, but led by the Spirit are the sons & daughters of God

Psalms 143:10 Gal 4:10 Rom 8:16 Rom 8:9

Friends, you who are fermented on the Scriptures, do you not hear what the letters has to say?

2Cor 3:6 1Cor 2:9-13 Rev 2:7,11 Rev 2:29 etc;

Jesus was made like unto us in all things, & is our Example, its recorded in Scriptures John 7:15 was not taught by man, but taught & lead by God Spirit John 5:19 2Cor 5:19,20 Rom 8:11 & was made 1Cor 15:45 to all that will receive Him in Spirit.

John the Baptist, was in the wilderness unto the day of his appearing; Luke 1:80 it is written Luke 3:2 John 1:33 the Spirit of God came to him, taught him & empowered him for the life & ministry chosen for him from the foundation of the world.

The same principle applies to us this day, God has not change, He works the same way He always has & that's by His Spirit.

As I stated previously the Scripture true glory & honor are they give us a true testimony of Christ & point to Him who did return as He promised, & that in Spirit. The Scriptures are very profitable indeed when honor for which they were given forth. The NT is the administration of the Spirit 2Cor 3:8

Paul says Philippians 1:19 The Spirit of Christ is what lead him & taught him all that we read of in his writing. He counted all the knowledge & understanding that he previously attain to & live as Dung, Philippians 3:5-8 compare to the experiential knowledge John 5:17 he received from Holy Spirit. 1John 4:6 do you hear Him?

in L & T

Hi Ronald.

Part 1

I'm enjoying my day, especially when I can sit down in front of my computer for a chance and not rely on my cellphone to communicate. I hope you are doing the same.

John 4:21-24 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

This worshiping God "who is spirit" and worshipping in truth and in spirit this ability to do so was done at the cross!

This is where the Church begin, and the partition moved out of the way for the Gentiles.

Ephesians 2:13-22

But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and HATH BROKEN DOWN THE MIDDLE WALL OF PARTITION BETWEEN US;

Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

AND ARE BUILT UPON THE FOUNDATION OF THE APOSTLES AND PROPHETS, JESUS BEING THE CHIEF CORNER STONE;

In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

See part 2.

The Foundation and Corner stone.

Hello Pam

Ok, get in a quiet place, & in sincerity & truth place all the issues of your life before Him, Psalms 145:18 & release them

Follow the Light of Truth within you conscience, the truth that you presently know practice in your normal everyday life, it the Voice that cautions you not to do wrong, & inspires you to do right. With the receiving of His convictions, also comes the Power, Faith; believe that it is God speaking to you. He's the inspiration force that compel you to seek help, He is who led you to ask for prayer, the Father drawing you by His Holy Spirit to His Son

John 6:44 John 6:65

To all that would receive Him in this manner, John 8:32 John 8:36

Read the book of John & Psalms 119 slowly, attentively, & pausing, listen for the Witness within conscience, when what read capture your attention, Read it again throughout the month, the more you give yourselve to Him in truth, the more He'll show Himself strong on your behalf. For the eyes of the Lord run throughout the whole earth to show Himself strong to those who hearts are perfect towards Him, meaning here in this instance, perfect in repentance & godly sorrow for one wrong doings.

May the Lord Himself strengthen you, for there will be a battles within your heart/conscience in the 1Pet 1:7, for the James 1:3, but let James 1:4-6 1Pet 1:5

Remember who you have place your hope in Jeremiah 32:27 1John 4:4 release & believe.

Its important to noted, that this may not be a instant deliverance experience, but a work of deliverance in progress as you show your sincerity & willingness to follow Christ, the Light in your heart by faith in His still small Voice; Line upon line, one step at a time.

Continue in this good godly exercise, asking Him to lead you in the path to righteousness for His name sake.

May God bless you

in love & truth

John 14:15.

AN ABSOLUTE TRUTH.

"IF YOU "LOVE" ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS".

Let's put some emphasis on Love for a chance.

What manner of Love is this?

Is it not agape?

Can you generate this height of Love on your own?

Is it not a fruit of the Spirit given once one IS saved?

SO WHAT IS THIS SAYING?

To get the context you have to pick it up the from John 13 on through John 14:23.

John 13:34-35.

"A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

BY THIS SHALL ALL MEN KNOW THAT YE ARE MY DISCIPLES, if ye have love one to another.

Jesus taught that those who follow Him will show love for the brothern ( John 13:12-15, 34).

That is the primary sign of faith to the outside world ( John 13:35). Here, he indicates that obedience to His command is the primary sign of our love for Him.

A person cannot claim to know Christ and hate other Christians

1 John 4:20.

Proceeding from John 14:15 on thru John 14:16-23 Jesus is telling them he was going and sending them the Holyspirit that will guide them.

Throughout this section, a person's love for Christ, their obedience to His teachings, and the indwelling of the Spirit are intertwined

All the law hangs on this.

Matthew 23:37-40.

AND THE MINISTRATION OF THE LAW COULDN'T PRODUCE THIS.

2 Corinthians 3:8-11 concedes that regeneration by the gift of the Holyspirit in those who believe in Christ exceeds the ministration of the law.

"How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of THE GLORY THAT EXCELLETH.

FOR IF THAT WHICH IS DONE AWAY WAS GLORIOUS, MUCH MORE THAT WHICH REMAINETH IS GLORIOUS.

It's the fruit that is on exhibit.

That's what James is also saying in his letter.

Also see

Titus 3:4-8.

God bless.

John 16:8

The subject matter here is on sin; righteousness and judgment to come as the role of the Holy Spirit; and undoubtably I have made several postings on that subject. 1 John 4:3-5 is another fundamental precept as to the origin of a spirit; as well as verses involving the fear of the Lord as the beginning of wisdom.

I would venture to say that often things seem to be backwards in given testimonies on the initial experiences with God or the Holy Spirit. A genuine conversion gives us a sort of "smackdown" in regard to us being enemies of God; which should occur when we realize that we have been heading to hell up until that point and that our sin NATURE is the real source of this enmity. Many like to tout about this sin or that sin but don't get to the source of the problem; namely a heart problem. This; of course simply substitutes one action for another; where we start living with a works based merit (whether we realize this fully or not).

One wouldn't want to have a decayed; maggot filled month old steak; no matter how well it is carefully seasoned; prepared and cooked! We are all enemies of God; and only His atonement can bridge that gap and repair the damage. Running away from God or having some natural repulsion at first I would say is a better indicator of true faith of a real experience with Christ. His love; of course is understood as pure and Holy and righteous; but our desire to avoid consequences; and find some other remedy for our condition usually causes a desire to escape. Only when we understand our sin NATURE can we begin to accept our helpless; hopeless state.

Judgment to come involves individual as well as national destinies. Much of the persecution of the Prophets came from these warnings; and a true messenger of God also is persecuted for the same. Hell is unpalatable but a necessary subject; as God's love is always balanced by justice. Thus; our love should grow during sanctification; not just be reactionary.

Page 1.

Thank you Frankie J. You wrote: "I have not stated; as you're implying the perfecting of the body, physically, it still remains under

the penalty of sin consequences." Actually, I always go back to the original post or question, i.e. "Can we reach a state of perfection in our lifes on earth , where we actually sin no more?"

I apologize, I understood that your original question did imply (or at least seeking) answers to that question of reaching perfection in our earthly lives. And from our discussions, I gathered that you did in fact believe that it is possible to do so; so sensed that you might be at or near that blessed state. Whereas the basis of these discussions between us is that my belief is that we will never reach that state in this life: our spirits might be renewed & made pure, but we still live in corrupt flesh & thus sin ever waits to manifest itself & it does so.

Yet, your statement continued: "Yet (the body?) can be pure & holy, being animated by the new birth & renewing of the mind by His Spirit; John 3:3-6; 1Thess 5:23,24; "wholly", not of position only, but possession." This is the point of our difference. As you wrote: "wholly, not of position only, but possession". Yes, we are 'sanctified wholly', but I'm afraid that what it boils down to is that your understanding of sanctification or wherever 'perfection, complete', etc. are used, you take it as being perfectly pure/clean now. And I think you will remember from my previous comment, that I don't subscribe to this type of application; even citing examples from 1 John 4:17 & Romans 12:1. So I think we need to leave that matter there, as we simply cannot reconcile those (& other) verses to what we believe.

Hi Frankie J. Getting to the fundamentals here: you quoted Luke 6:40 (the Greek is 'karkatizo', meaning 'made complete, prepared'). The context is not about being pure or perfectly free from sin "as his master", but the 'one who is fully trained or fully prepared for the work, can be the master/teacher'.

1 John 4:17: "Herein is our love made perfect" (Gk: teleioo = to be made complete); i.e. 'he who dwells in love dwells in God, and God in him' (v16): true love is made complete when we are truly abiding in God.

Romans 12:1: "present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God". (Gk: hagios (holy): set apart for God, sacred). That is how we come before God presenting ourselves: holy by position - holy by purification. The apostle's earnest plea is that we come with clean hands & pure hearts. Sinless? Can never be - our sin nature is still with us, but we can come with all sin confessed & clear pure consciences.

To the rest of your comment with supporting Scriptures, it appears again that you equate the new life in Christ as being freed from sin. It is true that we have been cleansed & our spirits have been made new & in that sense absolutely perfect. But we still live in bodies of flesh, sin & corruption. If the new birth dealt with that matter of perfecting our bodies (the flesh), I would fully agree with you, but the Bible never teaches that & experience always shows that the spiritual battle over sin can never end but rages every moment of the day, some succumb to it, others find victory. But in the end, confession & correction restores fellowship & cleansing of the heart & conscience - it never makes one sinless. If you find disagreement here, then maybe you can outline what you consider as sin - for this point may well be where our misunderstanding lies. GBU.

S Spencer on the last week.

Part 4

The service in the temple made by hands was over as Jesus told the woman at the well, John 4:21-24. Soon in that generation, it would be physically gone and never be again. The animal sacrifices that never covered sin ended on the cross, the whole Levitical priesthood and sacrificial shadow service, Hebrews 7:11-13. Only the Messiah Himself could legitimately abolish once and forever the system of symbols that pointed forward to the atoning self-sacrifice of the spotless Lamb of God.

This was the cause of the sacrifices and oblations to cease in Dan 9:27. This unveils one of the most profound and decisive revelations of the Messiah's mission, the very goal, the things determined by the seventy-weeks prophecy, God's will, the work Jesus was sent to do John 5:36 John 17:54-6 the sixfold goal of Daniel 9:24.

In vs. 26 after 69 weeks the Messiah is cut off, which after means it is in the 70th week. The people of the prince that shall come are the judgment of God not in these 70 weeks. This connection between the coming of the Messiah and the destruction of the city is the crucial message of Daniel 9:26, 27. They had 490 years to be ready and accept their Messiah and the people of the prince that shall come is the outcome of Jerusalem's rejection of her Messiah.

Jesus related the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 to Israel's final refusal to accept Him as her Messiah, Matt. 21:33-44 Matt. 23:37-38; Luke 19:41-44. The abomination Jesus was referring to in Matt. 24:15 and Mark 13:14 was not to the future but to their near future when the Roman army would destroy Jerusalem and the Temple in their generation Luke 21:20-24.

See Part 5

Hi Chris;

Rom 5:12-14

I would agree with all except, for the last sentence, beginning with "Absolute Purity". Luke 6:40; 1John 4:17; Rom 12:1; the plain write of the words used denotes we're still living in this world.

Hypocrites; I don't believe you intentionally imply this, yet the results of your statement implying this. They did not speak of the new birth, but from the new birth, 2Cor 5:17; Ezekiel 36:25,26,27; heart of flesh; denotes our life now in the flesh. Eph 4:24; you put Him on, here; Col 3:10; The apostles lived, enjoy & possessed what they preached; Philippians 3:15,16; Again, what God required of us is to live according to the measure of the Truth that He has revealed, the apostles received Acts 1:8' Eph 1:19; Eph 3:20; Col 1:29; to do so.

You stated "has sin left them or ever leave them: Never, but they can have victory over sin; this is an oxymoron. Being born again of His Spirit alias; Matt 3:11-12; the threshing floor of the heart is thoroughly purge of the chaff. (sin nature), the spiritual old man of sin, the Adamic nature that animates the flesh. He's deny, mortify & final crucify, he's dead & self is seen no more. All by the Grace appearance within our hearts.

Friend,,,,your covering yourself, but not with the Spirit of the Lord, but with; Gen 3:7;

Your the understanding is veiled, for only the spirit of darkness would plead for sin to remain within one, after all that God has wrought & revealed to us through His Son. For he (Satan) knows that despite one's profession, though maybe ever so high or lofty, & profess with elegant words, it what one does that defines him, Rom 6:16; John 8:34; Rom 2:6;

Hebrews 9:11,12,13,14,15; do you hear what the Spirit is saying here? The flesh purified, OT, now in NT even our conscience cleanse, the heart. Eternal inheritance Roman 8:17; 2 Pet 1:4; John 17:21-23;

Therefore, 2Cor 7:1;

In Love & Truth

Frankie J

Hi Ronald.

Part 1.

Thanks for your timeline and I appreciate how you and I can present our view and keep it peacefully and yet have entirely different views.

I also have the start of Jesus ministry around the same time based off John 4:17-21.

I don't agree with Jesus being anointed by the Holy Spirit at his baptism.

Nowhere in Scripture do we find Him being the recipient of the baptism with the Holy Spirit. On the contrary, Jesus is the one who baptizes others with the Holy Spirit. John 1:33.

Jesus baptism was symbolic of His entrance into His public ministry into the OT priesthood TO FULFILL ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS.

At about thirty years of age, He was ceremonially washed with water and then set apart for that ministry. This set Him apart to do the work for which He had been called to do.

This is the same way the Old Testament priests began their service. They had to be at least thirty years of age, they were ceremonially washed with water and then they were anointed with oil on their head.

Messiah means "anointed one". The promised deliverer of the Jewish nation.

John identified him as the Messiah, but he didn't make him the Messiah.

Jesus was the Messiah at birth.

Luke 2:10-11.

Luke 2:34-38.

Matthew 1:20-21.

Ronald you authenicate your view of the begining of the 70th wee started because Andrew told Simon they have found the Messiah, and Philip told Nathanael and the demons knew who he was and so on.

But many knew who he was at birth and as a child!

Here is just one example Matthew 2:1.

The key is when did Jesus present his self as king? Not only that he arranged it.

Matthew 21:2.

Any other time they tried to make them king he wouldn't allow it.

John 6:15.

Let's revisit Daniel 9.

See part 2.

Jema:

Your comment sums up antichrist.

As David0921 said, there is only two kingdoms on earth, the Kingdom of God and the kingdom of Satan.

The Kingdom of God of God is the Spirit of TRUTH, LIFE and LIGHT: CHRIST.

The opposite of Christ is antichrist.

The kingdom of Satan, the spirit of deception, death, and darkness.

It's not ONE antichrist in that kingdom, it begins with ALL men.

1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist; wherefore you have heard that it should COME, and even NOW already is it in the world.

Most Christians confess that Christ came the first time in the flesh, FEW confess that he came the second time as the LIFE in the body of man.

Christ is still on the earth in the FLESH, in YOU his body; YOU, sinful flesh DIED on the cross, ONLY Christ arose to indwell YOU, his flesh.

John 16:8 And when he (the SPIRIT of Christ) is COME (Christ second coming as the Holy Ghost) HE (Christ) will reprove the WORLD OF SIN (unbelief).

Colossians 1:27 ..... this mystery .... Christ in you ...... a NEW CREATION ......

God bless you

Part 3

-Therefore, Jesus Christ the son of God could not be born to the Hindus for they worship Idols neither to the Romans and the greeks even unto the Africans and the Australian aboriginals or any other tribe or nation of the world for all had a form of Ido worshiping including the Brittanica tribes

For there is one God who is living and there is none like Him from the heavens and to the earth as it is written in

Deuteronomy 32:39

See now that I, even I, am He, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: Neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

-God created from Abraham a new nation and guided them with the law and setting them apart and district from all the tribes of the world and from Abraham's children we have the 12 son of Jacob who later multiply and becomes a Great nation and still unique and not integrating with the rest of the world and even after their exile in 70Ad by the romans. who changed their lands name from isreal to Palestine they still remained a unique nation. While they were scattered across the world and Europe and by the fulfilment of God's word written in the Book of Jeremiah the prophet, the nation of Israel was reborn back into exitance in 1948.

-Therefore, Jesus Christ the son of the living God was born form the Jews and died on the cross in Israel and rose and acceded in Heaven still a Jew and He is the Lion of the tribe of Judah and forevermore Amen salvation is from the Jews. anyone who is not a Jew is called a Gentile.

it is written in John 4:22

22.Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

I pray that God will touch your heart for understand Amen

it is written in Acts 2:38

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost

Hi S Spencer

Sorry brother did not see your last post. I know we differ on this, as long as we inspire each other to study both sides we are doing ok. I feel the word antichrist has been used so many times having people looking for the wrong thing. This beast will ascend out of the bottomless pit, Rev. 17:8 we don't know what he will look like, the man of sin.

The word antichrist is not in Revelation, and where we see it in 1 John 2:18,22 1 John 4:3 and 2 John 1:7 all are describing people or the spirit of antichrist, deceivers not a beast. There has been people from the time Jesus ascended claiming to be the Messiah and will deliver them from Roman oppression up to revolts before 70 AD. There was one in Acts 21:38 and some others and probably some today.

2 Thessalonians 2:4, which says this beast will exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped. Above God, or whatever people all over this world worship, this will be a world event for people of all religions. I agree the deception will be great and he may appear to many as Christ or what or who other people worship. I am sure many will accept him as the Christ.

In Revelation, we have Satan, the beast, the false prophet, and fallen angels on this earth, all working against God, Jesus, and all who have faith in them, it will not be a pleasant time. From the time Satan and his angels are cast down to earth and Satan gives his power, seat, and authority to the beast I only see 3.5 years not 7. And I do not see anyone taken out only the second coming of Jesus. 7 years only comes from Daniel 9 whether that turns out to be true or false. Hope this makes some sense.

God bless

RLW

Back to the use of 'hyperbole' in the Bible, David 0921. Hyperbole, or 'an obvious & intentional exaggeration' (Dictionary), is found throughout the Bible. Here in Psalm 58:3 (a babe speaking lies at birth; the emphasis here is on the depth of wickedness found in some people). Is this God's Word? Yes it is. Can God use such language (through his servants) to communicate to us? Yes He can. Are we required then to believe that a new born child speaks lies, or should we learn from such hyperbolic language of the severity of wicked men?

Lest we think that this is just a rare occasion of such language, we could consider other Scriptures: Deuteronomy 1:28 (cities walled up to the (skies)); Jesus' Own Words: Matthew 19:24 (a camel going through a needle's eye); Luke 14:26 (hating family & one's own life, though 'hate' used as the strongest term for 'total rejection'); Matthew 5:29 (gouging out the eye); John 4:39 (the woman's testimony that Jesus told her every account of her life); and many more.

So all these are given as irrefutable words that God has allowed into it, including hyperbolic language, metaphors, similes. Yet, they are to be understood as such, or else our understanding would take a dangerous divergent turn that can only lead to error. Which hopefully leads us to the 'eternity' question: are the descriptions of hell or an eternal raging fire for all the unrepentant, factual or simply use of hyperbolic language? So here we have the problem: why would Jesus refer to that time using that type of language, as also the apostles did (or alluded to it), when only the grave is the final destiny of the unsaved? Understood, that heaven & an eternal life in all purity & happiness with our Great God & Savior should be the desire of all; but is this wonderful message alone, sufficient to cause sinners to truly repent & yearn for God's forgiveness, rather, as there is an eternity of bliss, so there is also an eternity of woe that Christ came, giving us an escape route?

Church: Beyond the five senses (continued)

My previous posts have discussed the extreme of overly legalistic churches vs those who are overly emotional; in short. Within a certain context; it is often helpful when one can experience the joy of the Lord when expressed more openly in a different type of fellowship on occasion as well as those from more expressive congregants to be introduced or reestablished with fellowship in more traditional worship. There is room for correction in either case; one extreme has the warnings of the Ephesian church abandoning their first love in Revelation 2:4-5; while there are sufficient warnings not only for order as in the Corinthians church but against false doctrines and "damnable heresies" such as 2 Peter 2:1 mentions.

This discussion; to reiterate is considering a true fellowship of worship sort of example and the various styles; preferences or modes of worship that often are commonplace and overlap; as stated in the introduction based on general parameters in scripture but as we shall see often influenced by culture in a given nation more than we may observe after being immersed in such traditions for a long time. To fast forward to the big picture let's look to the supernatural realm; specifically related to the angels and demons; under the authority of Christ and Satan and what a service is like in that dimension concurrent to our actions inside a church service on earth. The test of doctrine; for example shows how to test the spirits as to which ones proclaim Jesus has come in the flesh as opposed to those who deny it (1 John 4:2). That may define falsehood; but it is equally true that a church can be dead and lose its "candlestick" ( Rev. 2:5) so that as the Ephesians did; have all the right words but lose any effective power for change.

Briefly; worship must contain the truth reflecting God's character and unchanging attributes as well as express worship with all of the soul; body and mind ( Deut. 6:4-7)

You are replying to a comment by "Bagwill" 5 days ago:

Where in the Bible does it say that it's okay for women to be preachers.

MOUNTHOREB REPLY: Woman can prophecy not new info outside of the scriptures 2 Timothy 3:15-17. However, They preach what they have learned to others outside of the church or congregation. When asked a question about the bible. a woman can reply to anyone who is asking the question. even if it's a man, elder 1 Timothy 3 or someone in authority. but within the church or congregation 1 Timothy 3, a woman does not have authority over a man to speak to the whole church or Congregation 1Timothy 2:11,12,14 (unless there's no men available, if this is the case she covers her head within the congregation to PREACH 1 Corinthians 11:5;16 because of the angels in heaven) however, Outside of the building, yes a woman can teach others outside (family, neighbors etc.) Acts 2:16,17.

Jesus allowed women to speak to him and listen. even sit at his feet and ask questions. he allowed woman to speak and listened to them. and to follow him as he preached. Luke 1:36-38; John 4:7-54; John 11:20-29; John 20:11-18; Acts 1:14; Luke 8:1-3; Luke 10:38-42; Romans 16:1-5; Acts 18:2; Acts 18:24-26;

In marriage: Ephesians 5:21-33

These are all the scriptures I can think of. Revelation 22:17 "Its free"

You are replying to a comment by "FaithfullCairaway" 2 days ago:

When we die do we automatically get to go to heaven or do we have to wait until the resurrection?

MountHoreb Reply: I personally can't recall at the moment Jesus giving any details

regarding The Apostles quick resurrection.

But We do have evidence of Jesus Resurrection Luke 24:46. when he died he was on the earth as an

invisible spirit Acts 1:3. Jesus as an invisible spirit ( john 4:24) has the ability to materialize into a human

Luke 24:3,5; Acts 1:9-11 . All angels Can transform themselves Luke 24:4; Luke 24:36

We also have an example of Apostle Stephen who was stoned by the infuriated High Priest.

he knew it meant his death for speaking the truth. notice what he said at Acts 7:54-60;

We have proof that Stephen appealed (prayed) to Jesus in Heaven Acts 7:59.

To no disappointment: Jehovah ( Psalm 83:18) Only selected or Chosen a few

to go to heaven according to Revelation 14:1,3. notice the scripture said "from Earth" (redeemed or taken from)

Not all are picked as presidents only one is. and there are those selected under him. Revelation 20:4,6

HOPE THE SCRIPTURES ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION: Psalm 37

Hello

Gailee Question: does the Bible say that there is Woman Angels?

You are MountHoreb replying to a comment by "Gailee":

Angels are Spirits ( John 4:24) in Heaven Jesus explains at Matthew 22:29,30.

if you read about a women in heaven like Revelation 12:1,2 This is symbolic or illustrating the point revelation 1:1.

However, Angels can materialize into a human. or turn themselves into human flesh. we have an

example of the bad Angels who forsook their assigned positions in heaven to have sex with the beautiful woman

on earth. they "took wives" for themselves. according to Genesis 6 these angels are called "Sons of God" because they were created in heaven. Although Angels are either male nor female. descending to earth, angels have this ability. again these are angels who went evil or bad. who went against Jehovah ( Psalm 83:18) like Satan the serpent! Matthew 4:1-11; Ephesians

A few examples of Good Angels who had a earthly assignment: Genesis 18 and 19 Chapters.

"Three Men" are materialized good angels. in verse 19 the angels in Sodom struck the mob of boys and old men

who wanted to have sex or lie down with them. so which means these mob of males saw these angels as Males.

There is no scripture that shows that that angels ever materialized into females. for the simple fact that Adam was created first as the Male. Eve was a helper to him, created so he will not be alone. Genesis 1:26; Genesis 2:18; Genesis 5:1,2; Ephesians 5:23; 1 Timothy 2:13,14. However, women on earth are valuable to God also: Acts 2:17

so the overall point here is, No there is no woman in heaven, nor men, nor children. for they are

all angels in heaven as JESUS SAID.

I HOPE These scriptures help. Thanks.

Luke 12:3 and Matthew 12:36 are eye opening; as we are to give account for everything said and nothing is secret to God.

I would like to say that I don't do any grumbling or complaining; but alas then I would be lying. Thankfully anything but blasphemy against the Spirit can be forgiven. As Jesus pointed out to the self-righteous Pharisees; these bad fruits come from within. And 2 Peter 2:21 makes it clear that it is better not to have known the truth than to become reprobate. The blood of Christ is our only hope as Jeremiah 17:9 shows how sick the heart is.

There are Post Millennialists who dispute this; but I don't believe anyone from the church age who is a believer will be at the Great White Throne Judgment. I DO have the opinion that since the verse indicates that those who aren't in the Book of Life are going to the lake of fire; there is room for those who physically survive the Millennial period to go through that as saved people and hence be translated into heaven without dying.

In any event; 1 Corinthians 3:15 indicates that one can make it into heaven and suffer loss. That would be analogous to losing rewards as Revelation 3:11 warns. Paul indicates how we run for the prize. Only a few gain great rewards; as would be indicated by those making 100 fold as opposed to 30 fold returns or others ( Mark 4:20). We should not be confined to just the saved and lost divisions when scripture gives us admonitions for certain crowns that those who persevere; are martyred or are pastors as well as other situations are given for faithfulness.

Matthew 6:19-21 shows us that our treasure is to be in heaven. And that means that He must trust us with earthly riches as well ( Luke 16:10-12) as a test; a prerequisite for heavenly riches. Our brothers in Christ that we support in the ministry will be able to enjoy the harvest with us (see John 4:37). That and personal witnessing are components of fulfilling the Great Commission to finish well.

Page 1.

To your comment now Jimbob. Your reference to the direct Words of the LORD ("Thus saith the LORD", and others): indeed, when such phrases are used, we know that the first recorders were compelled to write them down verbatim, or else the LORD would soon correct them (even as we see an example in Ezekiel 13:1-8). So here there is no problem. But what happens when these recorders such as Daniel, write down what they heard from those Babylonian kings? Do they need Divine Guidance to write, though certainly in need of God's Help to remember if the writing took place sometime after those events. So Divine Inspiration or even God's Word being wholly true & pure, must mean that God superintended over these recordings, ensuring that the recorders wrote exactly what God spoke or what they had seen or heard from others.

Now when it comes to translating the original writing to another language, it is true that God can still enable men, however much they might be lacking in some of the exacting skills to do the work, but the end product can only be the best that both language & abilities allow. A case in point but with a question first: how would you feel about the Bible (say the KJV) being translated into another language aside from English? I'm a little familiar with the Urdu Bible (the one used by Christians in Pakistan). When sharing from the Word & going through my message with my interpreter, I checked the verse 1 John 4:10 with him. I asked, 'What word would he use for 'propitiation' (a difficult seldom-used word) & what did that word mean to him & others? He said, 'the word in Urdu was 'kafara' & meant 'atonement'. I then asked if there could be any further meaning or thought to this word & he gave a definite No. I then explained to him the proper meaning of propitiation & he admitted that he had never heard of this explanation & there was no word in Urdu to describe the 'Anger of the LORD being turned aside or averted'. That was a fruitful time for all.

Hi,

Yes, all this is Definity happening today. fo instance the book of Matthew 24 the rumors of wars and wars we can see that increasing Infront of eyes. Earth quick and many things.

in the book of John 4:181

Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

hence, we see the raise of the false preacher but in droves.

So, all this is happening, and others will happen Amen.

Praying for your needs RicoUS. 1 John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Pt 2

GiGi mentioned John 3:26, "And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.".

Also John 3:22, "After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized."

Also John 4:1-2, "When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,(Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)"

So the understanding I have concurs with GiGi's. Jesus baptized his first disciples. then those baptized the next ones and so on.

GiGi it is important in the sence that if the apostles were baptized, so was Judas. But new birth precedes w/baptism, so Judas was saved. That is what all this discussion was all about.

GBU

Assurance of salvation: Evidences of life within

Luke 14:31 gives us the hypothetical situation when we have 10000 men about to go to war with 20000. We have to decide whether to fight or seek a peace agreement. Given the very real odds against the armies of Israel; as well as God purposely reducing the size so that only His victory can be acknowledged (such as in Judges 7:2) we should carefully assess whether we are positioned to enter into spiritual warfare (such as Ephesians 6 describes).

Few would argue the importance of love as a virtue of prime importance being that God IS love (1 John 4:8). It is to be sought as 1 Corinthians 13:1 demonstrate how other giftings are subordinate to love and of course John 15:13 shows there is no greater love than laying down our life for our friends as demonsrated by our Lord and Savior Himself. I have discussed repentance in earlier posts on this subject. I thought it prudent to point out that we need to go beyond just acknowledgement of what scripture states is sin to the point where there is a revulsion and hatred within. After all; His Spirit is said to testify with our spirit ( Romans 8:16) that we are indeed His children. This sort of balances things out; we are to have Agape love where we love our enemies; also we are to truly hate sin whether it is within us; others or the whole world system. This encompasses the world; the flesh and the Devil. There seems to be a rather laccadasical approach when it comes to the enemy of our souls. Christ makes it perfectly clear as to his character but sadly when the seriousness of the matter of his deadly destructive rampage comes up almost always I seem to get a response that it is really no big deal. That is something frankly I find hard to swallow; given that God Himself will allow Satan to have authority over the whole world so that everyone who isn't written in the Book of Life will worship Antichrist and Satan by default. ( Rev. 13:8). That is coming soon.

Jesse, I guess I read in John 3:22 that it says he spent time with his disciples (the twelve) and baptized. S, I think this is when He baptized His disciples.

In John 4:1-2 It says that Jesus did not baptized, but the disciples. I take this to mean that He only baptized His disciples and then they baptized the others that came to be baptized.

I guess this interpretation may be reasonable because it is doubtful that He would have His disciples baptize others if He had not baptized them first.

So, maybe you can shed some light on this as far as Greek meaning.

You're welcome Gigi.

Jesus certainly was overseeing some baptizing.

If you take those verses you presented chronologically I believe it explains itself.

John 3:22-26. "After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

For John was not yet cast into prison.

Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying.

And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him."

Then in John 4:1-2 the Pharisees took notice of this but verse 2 explains it.

Vs 2. ( Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)

John's ministry was about up.

"There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. John 1:6-8."

John was to present the one in the loins of Abraham prophesied to come into the world in the OT.

John the baptist baptism was for Israel to turn/repent from Judaism.

Luke 1:16-17.

Malachi 4:5-6.

He announced one coming for the lost sheep of Israel.

God bless.