Discuss John 5 Page 12

Hi Ronald,

I appreciate your respectul remarks and am ok with continuing to dialog as long as that remains.

I can offer a challenge to few of your points in your last comment.

1. John 1:1 says, "In the beginning", God does not have a beginning.

It sounds like you are using this as evidence to support your view. I don't view it that way at all. First, this says "in the beginning" not "in God's beginning" or "in the Word's beginning". So, this phrase doesn't suggest any limitation on God whatsoever, but is just marking for us in our own human terms that Jesus was always there.

Do you remember Jesus saying this: "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." That doesn't mean He's limited, but the opposite, it means He spans everything! Revelation 22:13 - notice the words in red that Jesus said that.

It also says this in Revelation 1:8, notice it says "says the Lord". Lord is Greek word kurios which is supreme authority or God. Some translations say "says the Lord God" and is the same meaning. This is Jesus speaking about Himself, it too is in red.

Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." - notice this is the same claim Jesus made in Revelation. If there's only one and only one who makes that claim then it seems logical that the claim in both the New and Old Testament are from the same being.

Revelation 11:17 - This uses the same word Lord (kurios) of which Jesus is Lord ( Romans 10:9) and uses the word theos (God) with it, so it calls Jesus "Lord God." Do you agree? How do you feel about this verse?

Isaiah 43:11 - "I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour." So, it says Jesus is Lord and our savior in the New Testament and there's no other Lord. Here in the OT it also says the Lord is the savior and no one else. That is all in alignment with John 10:30. Yes?

John 5:23 - we must honor Jesus.

Hi David, I don't know where your heart is in regards to your public comment- that is between you and God.

I know from past experience that people have used similar arguments in a dishonest way, however, in attempt to discredit God. I noticed you claimed those who believe in the trinity as it says in 1 John 5:7 didn't start until constantinople. That is untrue. People would have believed in the Godhead the first time they heard or read the scriptures, because its direct from scripture. 1 John 5:7, John 1:1, Philippians 2:6, and numerous verses that talk about the Godhead and plural "we" and "us" for God all align for even a child to understand that God consists of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. God is aware of our hearts and any attempts to discredit Him or spread false info will be taken seriously. Those who disrespect, dishonor, slander Jesus may not even be saved according to John 5:23.

Hello Gary,

I concur with Jesse.

The Scriptures say that God is everlasting and eternal, without beginning nor being created and will never cease to exist. Life and existence belong wholly to Him. They do not exist outside of God, meaning He did not acquire them from anything outside of Himself. He always has possessed these.

Genesis 21:33 (Eternal)

Isaiah 63:16 (Everlasting)

Isaiah 26:4 (Rock eternal)

Jeremiah 10:10 (the living God, the Eternal King)

Romans 16:26 (Eternal God)

1Tim 1:17 (unto the King eternal immortal)

Hebrews 9:14 (eternal Spirit)

1John 5:20 (He is the true God and Eternal life)

Ps. 93>2 (You are from all eternity)

Deuteronomy 33:27 (Eternal)

1 Chronicles 16:36 (the God of Irael, from everlasting to everlasting)

Nehemiah 9:5 (who is from everlasting to everlasting)

Isaiah 9:6 (Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace)

Isaiah 40:28 (The Lord is the Everlasting God)

Habakkuk 1:12, (O lord, are You not rom everlasting?)

Isaiah 57:15 (the Lofty One, who lives forever

Hope these help.

Hi Ronald,

Thanks for explaining your position.

Your comment stood out to me: "Jesus is the word, every word Jesus said was of God and from God the Father, the word of God became flesh not God. "

What's interesting is that John 1:1 does not say what you wrote. You acknowledge that Jesus is the Word as it says in John 1:14, ok so we agree on that aside from your use of a lowercase word instead of Word. The name Word is a proper title, similar to many other names of Jesus has been given.

1. After you used lowercase to describe Jesus instead of Word you then slipped in "word" but as a different meaning but to also create distance between God and Jesus.

That is surprising, because John 1:1 literally says "the Word was God."

Bible: "Word was God."

You: "every word Jesus said was of God."

That seems sneaky to me. That's not what that verse says. I have been in prayer about this and I encourage you to do the same. Surely God will honor those who seek Him with wisdom and understanding about who He is, do you agree?

There's no verse in the Bible that says Jesus isn't God. All the scripture supports that He is part of a triune God and is the Son. Yes, the Father is also called God and I see how people latch onto that. And I see how people don't want to understand that God can sometimes mean God the Father and can sometimes mean a triune God. But if someone believes there's no trinity and that Jesus isn't part of the Godhead as scriptures say, then how else do people explain the verses where God refers to itself as "we" and "us" and how Jesus created everything John 1:3. It says the 3 are 1 in 1 John 5:7. It doesn't say the part of the Godhead is everyone, or Paul, or Peter, or Samson or you. No, there's only 3 and it includes the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost just like it says.

One last comment for now:

"The doctrine says all three are equal, does scripture agree?"

The Bible doesn't say their roles are equal. What doctrine are you talking about?

John 1:1

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Who is the Word?

John 1:14-15 says the Word is Jesus. Does anyone deny that the Word is Jesus?

If someone believes John 1:14, then do they believe John 1:1

"...the Word was God."

"...[Jesus] was God."

JESUS.

WAS.

GOD.

John 1:1

This is God's Word.

Some here are saying "Jesus was NOT God" despite John 1:1 clearly saying Jesus WAS God. I'd like to know exactly how someone can believe in all other verses of the Bible except this one? If something WAS something, that seems to offer little room for interpretation. It means it's the same, does it not? So, if something WAS something, how does someone twist this into believing it says something WAS NOT something?

It then must be asked: since it takes so much effort to take a sentence something WAS something to turn it into: something WAS NOT something, what is the true underlying motive here? Does God's Word carry the most weight and influence or does something else?

This is eerily similar to Gen 3:4 where satan denied what God said and claimed that they shall NOT surely die. Satan loves opposites and this seems to have his signature, does it not?

I welcome any perspective I'm missing, but do not consider anything other Bible verses as valid evidence. God's Word is all that matters and because there's already numerous verses supporting that Jesus is God like John 1:1 then that is what is true. Lastly, why not just pray and ask God directly to know the truth? Genuinely ask!

1 John 5:7-8

John 10:30

John 8:19

Genesis 1:26

Genesis 11:6-7

(plural "us")

Philippians 2:5-8

2 Corinthians 5:19

John 1:3

Matthew 28:19

1 Peter 1:2

2 Corinthians 13:14

Deuteronomy 6:4

John 14:10

John 20:28

1 John 2:22-24

Matthew 1:23-25

Colossians 2:9

Acts 17:29

Romans 1:20

Isaiah 7:14

Hebrews 1:8

Isaiah 44:6

Isaiah 43:11

Hi Doug,

This is an interesting logical argument. I find that in 1 Peter 3:22. Let's assume for argument's sake that your conclusion is correct and you get 1 point for this.

But for every verse you cite, there are even more that say that Jesus IS God, like John 1:1 saying the "Word was God" and verse 14 that Jesus is the Word.

This could continue to play out and you can cite any number of verses to support your position, but again we don't run out of very compelling verses saying that Jesus is God.

Let's say that it's a dead even race. 30 verses suggesting Jesus isn't vs 30 verses suggesting He is.

Then what? Which do you choose to believe?

I don't know if you've gone through this exercise or not, but I now have a spoiler: someone will run out of verses supporting that Jesus "isn't" God long before the verses supporting He IS God. Not only that, but each of the verses commonly cited to claim that Jesus "isn't" God require some extra creative interpretation and human logic whereas the verses supporting the other side can be read and interpreted more literally. Not only that, but there's logical explanations for why Jesus called His Father God. The main reason is that He temporarily became a human being and limited His power. Phil 2:6-7. So, yes, as a man, He prayed to His Father and called Him God. So, all verses must be considered as a whole, not cherry picked in order to have understanding about the Godhead and I admit it is hard to comprehend as we don't have anything like it in on earth. But perhaps like an orange with seeds, pulp, skin. Someone calls pulp an orange, and it is.

1 John 5:7-8

John 10:30

John 8:19

Genesis 1:26

, Genesis 11:6-7 (plural "us")

Philippians 2:5-8

2 Corinthians 5:19

John 1:3

Matthew 28:19

1 Peter 1:2

2 Corinthians 13:14

Deuteronomy 6:4

John 14:10

John 20:28

1 John 2:22-24

Matthew 1:23-25

Colossians 2:9

Acts 17:29

Romans 1:20

Isaiah 7:14

Hebrews 1:8

Isaiah 44:6

Isaiah 43:11

Concept of "Master". Over and over in the Gospels; Christ is addressed as "Master". We hear of God's love and salvation; less frequently with an emphasis on Him being Lord of our lives; rarely master. I had one friend of mine from a couple years back frequently start his prayers with that term. We can argue about the slave mentality of the ancient cultures; but how often do we think of ourselves as "unworthy servants" just doing what is required? (See Luke 17:7-10). It is sobering also to think that the scriptures show the absurdity of many today who think that somehow they will treat the servants any better than their "Master" (see John 15:20). As adopted children; we have certain rights and privileges that the "hired hands" don't have. Nonetheless since we are Temples of the Holy Spirit we are to honor God's presence and not grieve the Spirit. We are His possession and are to be fit for His use as He sees fit.

Of course; this all fits in with the fear of the Lord ( Prov. 1:7 etal). It seems like backward logic; at least to the world; who consider themselves free but in reality are slaves to sin ( Romans 6:20 and many other like verses). If we love Him; we obey His commandments. (1 John 5:2-3). Love and obedience are NOT mutually exclusive concepts; nor can either survive on their own. Now His saints are free to choose to serve God or to sin; a concept many who correctly believe what's known as the "Grace Gospel" seem to have trouble with. Before we are saved; we are only able to sin. The truth is hidden; as it were like the Parables are to the lost. This ties into His Diety as God in the flesh; hence no earthly saints are to be given special titles such as "Father" ( Matt. 23:9). Let us strive therefore so that we can avoid unnecessary discipline through sins. The way the world views punishment now; His chastisements may seem unduly harsh. It is better than ultimate judgment in hell; and for our own good.

Agape.

Hello Naseem,

Scripture tells us the unclean spirits/devils knew He was the Son of God, Matt. 8:29 Mark 3:11 Luke 8:27-28. Scripture tells us Jesus is the Son of God the only begotten of the Father, John 1:14. Scripture tells us Jesus the Son of God was before this world John 17:5 2 Timothy 1:9. Scripture tells us Jesus the Son of God was the beginning of creation Rev. 3:1. Scripture tells us everything was created through Him Col. 1:16.

Scripture tells us to confess Jesus is the Son of God, 1 John 4:15. Scripture tells us God gave His only begotten Son, John 3:16. Scripture tells us to believe God gave His only begotten Son, 1 John 5:10. Scripture tells us God was made known in the flesh through His only begotten Son same as creation was through His Son 1 Timothy 3:16 Col. 1:16.

Scripture tells us we have salvation and eternal life only in Jesus Christ, John 3:36 Acts 4:12 Eph. 4:12 1 Thess. 5:9 1 John 5:13 Scripture tells us we can only come to the Father through Jesus, John 14:6 1 Timothy 2:5.

Jesus came to fulfill the law and the prophets and died for our sins, and the only way that could be done is in the flesh, the seed of Abraham, Hebrews 2. He experienced temptation the same as you and me, Luke 4:2 Heb 2:18, He had a brain and a will, Luke 22:42 but He was obedient to the Father. We now have a high priest in heaven that lived in this flesh just like us, Hebrews 4:14-16.

Salvation and eternal life only by the grace of God through faith which is in Christ Jesus. Jesus Christ's perfect life in the flesh, His blood shed for us, and His resurrection. We cannot deny the divinity of Jesus, the only begotten Son of God that was before this world, but no creed, doctrine, or statement of faith can be placed above or added to that we must believe to receive salvation and eternal life if scripture does not tell us we must believe. Truth is in the simplicity that is in Christ.

I love this site and the brothers and sisters on it.

God bless,

RLW

The Scriptures about the Godhead. Sometimes called "Let Us..." in some passages. These scriptures are evidence of all 3 persons of the Godhead speaking to each other.

Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7

Isaiah 6:8

Romans 1:20*

Colossians 2:9

Acts 17:27-30

1 John 5:7

John 10:30

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and GODHEAD so that they are without excuse:"

Genesis 1:1

The Father purposes

The Word (Jesus) speaks. ( John 1:1)

The Spirit (Holy Spirit) executes the spoken word. Action.

All working together. Jesus came to show us the Father, as Emmanuel.

Matthew 1:23

Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God WITH US. [Jesus]

{Comment} Jesus came to bring to each born again believer; the baptism and the in-dwelling of the Holy Spirit.

[ Genesis 1:2, John 3:6, Acts 2:1-3, John 16: 7-15]

Upon being born again, Jesus gives the Holy Spirit to teach us scripture, comfort us, convict us of sin, enable us to be witnesses. Stay in the New Testament at first.

Mishael

John 20.29 This particular verse reaffirms the belief that Blessed are those who believe in an unseen God.

Lord does not mean God. If Thomas said that to Jesus in the previous verse, it should be taken in metaphorical sense and not actual. I cannot accept Jesus as Son of God nor God for the following reason .1. Matthew 24:36

No one knows about that day or hour, not even the Son, but the Father only.

Here Jesus makes a distinction between what he knows and what the Father knows.

2. Matthew 26:39

My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me, yet not as I will, but as Thou will.

Jesus' will is likewise autonomous from God's Will. Jesus is seeking acquiescence to God's will.

3. John 5:26

For as the Father has life in Himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself.

Jesus received his life from God. God received his life from no one. He is eternally self-existent.

4. John 5:30

By myself, I can do nothing: I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who has sent me.

Jesus says, "by myself, I can do nothing." This indicates that Jesus is relying upon his own relationship with God. He is not trying to "please myself" but rather is seeking to "please the one who sent me."

5. John 5:19

The Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees the Father doing, because whatever the Father does, the Son does also.

Jesus declares that he is following a pattern laid down by God. He is expressing obedience to God.

7. John 14:28

The Father is greater than I.

This is another strong statement that makes a distinction between Jesus and God.

8. Matthew 6:9

Our Father, which art in Heaven.

He didn't pray, Our Father, which art standing right here!"

9. Matthew 27:46

My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Inconceivable if he is God the Creator.

Space does not permit to write more.

Hello Alan. Brother Richard has shared some wonderful accounts that should give you peace in your heart & hope that with God, nothing is impossible. You sound like a man who has spent much time in advising your children & in much prayer for them - efforts before God that won't go to waste.

When we think of the myriad of ways that the Lord can direct lives, order events, bring people or situations around for the fulfilment of His Purposes, we can indeed entrust our loved ones into His care & safekeeping. Just continue to love the Lord with all your heart, love your family with that same love that God has filled you with, and lay them continually before Him - no prayer goes unanswered - no cry unheard. Trust Him for the outcome - to Him Who does all things well. When we, as sinners, finally come to understand that the wrong things we have done are what greatly trouble our souls - there being no longer satisfaction from them - that an eternity of punishment awaits all who spurn God's Love, then the salvation from Jesus becomes far greater than the fickle satisfaction through sin. May your dear ones be exercised by God's Spirit, that the day will come when they cry out for His Mercy. We may not see it now, but God's Work is precise & unrelenting, especially to those we cry to Him for. 1 John 5:14,15; 2 Peter 3:9; Isaiah 55:10,11.

Praying in Jesus name

1John 2:27,

John 14:13,14, John 16:23,

Luke 11:2-13, Matthew 6, Matthew 7:7-12, John 15:7,16, 1John 3:22, 1John 5:14,15,

Matthew 18:19, Matthew 21:22,

James 1:5, Matthew 6,

Hopefully these are even more helpful, straight from GOD's book,

John 17,

No Martha, the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of Christ are one & self-same Spirit. We understand this because of the Deity of the Spirit (i.e. the Holy Spirit is a vital Person within the Godhead, or Trinity), & by the procession of the Spirit (i.e. the Spirit proceeding from both the Father & the Son, without any change or division in God's Nature).

a. the Spirit's Deity.

Proven by His Names (Equality: 1 Corinthians 6:11; Doing the Work of God: Romans 8:15; John 14:16).

Proven by His Characteristics (All-knowing: 1 Corinthians 2:10,11; Everywhere: Psalm 139:7; All-powerful: Genesis 1:2; Truth: 1 John 5:6; Holiness: Luke 11:13; Life: Romans 8:2; Wisdom: Isaiah 40:13).

Proven by His Works (In creation: Genesis 1:2; Inspiration: 2 Peter 1:21; Begetting Christ: Luke 1:35; Convincing men: John 16:8; Regenerating: John 3:5,6; Comforting: John 14:16; Interceding: Romans 8:26,27; Sanctifying: 2 Thessalonians 2:13).

Proven by His equality with the Father & Son ( Acts 5:3,4; Matthew 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14).

b. the Spirit's Procession.

Proceeded from the Father ( John 15:26).

Proceeded from the Son ( Galatians 4:6; Romans 8:9; John 16:7).

So, I hope you can see that the Holy Spirit, whether spoken of God or of Jesus, is the same Spirit, for He is one with the Father & the Son. Then when we come to 1 Corinthians 12:13, "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit", again the one & same Holy Spirit is seen here, but we now see His special work where His coming into our lives, affects our spirits and baptizes us (brings us into union) with the whole family of God (into one Body, i.e. of Christ).

Psalms 24:1, ._.The earth is the Lord's and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell there in"

the Lord meaning.. Yhvh = translated, The proper name of GOD of Israel = Eternal 2. Jehovah 'Jewish name'

Earth = earth, land, nations, wilderness, world,

Exodus 9:29,

1Corinthians 10:26 "For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.'' the Lord's meaning 1. Supreme in authority, 2. Controller 3. supremacy, master,

Chris gave you great scripture but I want to point to the bigger more complete picture.

Ephesians 6:12, world = aion translated = an age, 1Corinthians 2:6, 1Corinthians 1:20,

John 15:19, meaning translated = kosmos= orderly arrangement, 2. The world including it's inhabitants, John 3:15-17, 1Corinthians 7:31,

John 1:10, 1John 2:16, Proverbs 29:2,

1John 5:4, John 16:33, 1Corinthians 15:24-28, John 17, 1John 3:10-16, John 9:5, 1Corinthians 6:2, Genesis 1:28, Luke 22:25-30, Matthew 10:8, Matthew 28:18-20, Luke 9:1-2, Luke 10:9, Mark 16:15-19

2Peter 3:13, Isaiah 65:17, Revelation 21, Ephesians 6:10-18

Hopefully these are helpful in deeper understanding, you can also pray for wisdom, James 1:5,

Matthew 25:31-45 show what happens when Christ returns. For those who do NOT believe in the Milennium period they say that's it; the final judgment equivalent to that of Revelation 20:11-15. Notice the parameters though. The distinction is made among those who did certain works such as visiting one in prison. It is clear that is not for this dispensation but for a time when there is no question who Christ is (as shown from the reaction of the wicked by the 6th Seal). It will be clear after the Resurrection of those in Christ and the Rapture combined that scripture is true; at least to anyone not deliberately avoiding the obvious conclusion. Thus; the result or fruit of true faith at that time can ONLY be demonstrated in the reaction toward God's faithful; which no doubt will include those 144,000 and other believers who are martyred en masse after whatever imprisonment occurs.

After 1000 years of peace on earth; there will be sudden fire from heaven during Satan's last stand. It appears that only those who have transgressed die at that time. There will be no time as there is in the Tribulation for Jerusalem to be attacked; women raped; and men massacred in any prolonged campaign.

The Resurrection of all in John 5:28-29 may appear to be all at once; but the physical resurrection of the dead seems to be at the end of the Millenium (with the "Day of the Lord" likely encompassing the time from the beginning of the Trib to end of Millenium) 2 Peter 3:10.

Basically those taking the mark of the beast WILL all go to sheol for 1000 years. The rest who are PHYSICALLY alive once Christ returns (i.e. those hidden in Petra and the few Gentiles who make it to the end) will be judged if they are able to enter into the Kingdom or not. That's how I see it; perhaps they will immediately die or be cast into hell alive at that time.

Rightly dividing scripture takes careful work.

Just a reminder Alex that at the cross there flowed out blood and water. 1 John 5:6-8 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. Hope this gives some clarification.

Old Testament law: Deuteronomy 16:16, Exodus 34:23,24, Deuteronomy 31:11, Exodus 23:17, the dates of calendars have changed even the Hebrew / Jewish calendars. Moses through GOD established the beginning of the year to be the Passover, no calendar today honors that. Exodus 12:2, Exodus 12, Numbers 28:16,

Jesus honored these things, along with His parents (on earth) Luke 2:22,23, Luke 2:41-49, John 4:45, John 5:1, John 10:22,23, even those who opposed Jesus expected Jesus to honor the appointed days : John 11:54-57, John 12, Even facing His own brutal death: Matthew 20:17,18 , Mark 10:32,33,34 do you think HE knew He was the Lamb,: Luke 2:38, Luke 18:31, that was going to be slain for Passover? That's why HE told them, as HE obediently set his face to go? Luke 9:51,

Matthew 21

Micah 6:6-8,

John 4:21-24, 2Corinthians 6:2, 2Colossains 2:16,17, Hebrews 10:1-19, Matthew 18:20,

Hopefully these are helpful

Dear God Almighty Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. Help my sister "Emily" here and come back to You Lord. Nothing can compare with You. Without You Lord, everything is dark and sad, nothing can give her peace or happiness without You in the first place Lord, nothing can compare with You Lord! She is thankful for the salvation and purification she has in Your holy scriptures holy name and what Jesus had to endure for us all at Calvary. In Jesus name she pray and ask forgiveness for the distance that has come between You, the devil has chased and stolen the gift she received from You Lord. She asks to take the sword up fight, and take the gift back, Lord! He Himself says in His word: John 5:24 and Romans 13. Nothing can take you away from the Hand of the Lord Jesus, Amen

Dear Rocky Boyd its clear, have a nice day. God bless us with heavenly understanding in Jesus name.

God bless u and yours in Jesus name, love u in Christ.

John 5:24-28

" 1 timothy 1:10" may this translation be better: for adulterers, for men who have sexual intercourse with men, for people who engage in human trafficking, for liars, for those who swear falsely and everything else that stands in the way of sound doctrine. Just to name it: KJV is the best translation, the one best understood by All Bibles in this world.

Stay strong in the word and God bless u and yours in Jesus name, love u in Christ. John 5:24-29

Dear Right Hand i can pray for you, Dear Almighty God and Creator i pray in Jesus holy name, that a root of bitterness does not grow up in humanity today John 12:18 But peace be with all. Let the Christians who call themselves Christians reach out for help and comfort to the whole herd. Let us today hear His Voice, that the ears are opened and we can expect to join Him when He returns with His Trumpet Voice. So that we can live in faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. John 5:24-29 Thank You, Lord, for bringing Your salvation to all who cry out to You. And You will not reject anyone, according to Your Word. John 6:37 Amen

God bless u in Jesus name, love u in Christ.

Hello Fabian TAIMABRI,

Genesis 1:27, notice: Genesis 1:26,28,29,

Genesis 2:7, interestingly here "formed, breathed life" is this symbolic of the Church the body of Christ to come? John 12:25, Genesis 3:22, John 5:26, John 5:24, John 3:36, John 6:48,54, Titus 1:2, Romans 8:6, John 5:39,

Is chapter 2, symbolic of the stewardship of GOD's Church? Genesis 2:15, Matthew 20:8, Luke 12:42, Mark 12,

Back to Genesis 1, "man appears to be collective for both" yes in name like human, humanity, humankind "man"

see even more interesting = Genesis 5:2,

GOD says distinctly female & male Genesis 1:27,

It appears it could be those created to multiply, fill the earth, subdue were away from the presence of GOD, again seeming to point to the symbolism in the garden "in the presence of GOD " His church. Genesis 3:8, Genesis 3:23-24, Genesis 4:14-16,

Genesis 2:17, spiritual death? Matthew 8:22, Luke 9:60, Matthew 22:32, Matthew 23:27,

In the forming of Eve, it appears also specific, spiritual & special with symbolism, Genesis 2:21-25, Genesis 6:1-3, Mark 10:4-9, 1Corinthians 6:15, Revelation 21:2,9, Isaiah 62:5, John 3:29-36, Matthew 22, Luke 12:36, Ephesians 5:30-32,

1Corinthians 13:9-12, James 1:5, Ephesians 3:4,

Hopefully these are all helpful

I wouldn't call it a spirit world but I understand your question. The majority of modern churches teach there's no Heaven after death for the elect. This is a lie from Satan. Now, under the Old Covenant those who died in God had been for a time in Hades (the paradise side of Sheol)...such as we understand in part from Solomon

Ecclesiastes 12:7 - Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

These verse describe not only our being born again in Salvation but equally that God gives those washed in His Blood an eternity with him (Heaven...like or lump it)

John 5:24 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

There are two sides of the grave after death: From the unsaved there's Hell and the save eternal life with God

Christ warns...

Matthew 10:28 - And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

So, I wouldn't necessarily say Spirit world as the Holy Spirit lives in every born again believer. So, we know in part of that already. The body can be injured, hurt and pass away. But the soul cannot die and has only one of two destinies after death. That's why Salvation is so very important:

John 3:16-18

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

Giannis, I really do appreciate you being open to this topic. The verses you have given a very popular for those who feel we can't be sin free. As you read the Bible be open to the adjectives in the scriptures and text. Ask yourself when you think you have sinned. Is it really a sin. Do I honestly want to leave it or do I like the thought that I can remain in my failures and Christ views me as perfect anyway. IF Christ gives grace to overcome some sins, why can't he give power to overcome all sins. Lets just consider some of the wording of the scripture. 1) Dead to sin or Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon Dye also yourselves to be "dead indeed" unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 2)Jesus told the woman at the well "go and sin no more".... not try to do better. 3) 1John 5:8 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God "keepeth himself", and that wicked one "toucheth him not". So we have phrases "doth not commit sin", "cannot sin", "toucheth him not", "dead indeed unto sin", James 1:15 "and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death". The following verse says "Do not err, my beloved brethren". An explanation of what I understand the scriptures in 1 John to mean "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." Answer: we know we all had Adam's nature of sin prior to conversion to say we didn't is to deceive ourselves. "If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us". Answer: All have sinned and come short of the glory of God prior to conversion. The following verse is what I believe is the complete mission of Jesus coming to the earth. 1 John 3:5 "And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin". And by this mission we will "have life and have it more abundantly". Have a blessed day!

The Scriptures about the Godhead. Sometimes called "Let Us..." in some passages. These scriptures are evidence of all 3 persons of the Godhead speaking to each other.

Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7

Isaiah 6:8

Romans 1:20

Colossians 2:9

Acts 17:27-30

1 John 5:7

John 10:30

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and GODHEAD so that they are without excuse:"

Genesis 1:1

The Father purposes

The Word (Jesus) speaks. ( John 1:1)

The Spirit (Holy Spirit) executes the spoken word. Action.

All working together. Jesus came to show us the Father, as Emmanuel.

Matthew 1:23

Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God WITH US. [Jesus]

{Comment} Jesus came to bring to each born again believer; the baptism and the in-dwelling of the Holy Spirit.

[ Genesis 1:2, John 3:6, Acts 2:1-3, John 16: 7-15]

Upon being born again, Jesus gives the Holy Spirit to teach us scripture, comfort us, convict us of sin, enable us to be witnesses. Stay in the New Testament at first.

1 Cor 15:50. The dead will be raised when Christ comes the Second time. Not everone will go to heaven at the second coming John 5:29. Compare the two verses you will see they are the same. Ecclesiastes 3: 20 tells us all return to the dust. Verse 21 says the SPIRIT GOES TO THE GOD ( Eccles 12:7 Also). Now note : Gen 2 :7 says man became a living being after the breath of life is given by God, so when the breath departs as you read in Eccles then man is dead waiting for the second coming. Read John 11 :23 and 24 for confirmation of 1 Cor 15 and John 5:29

Hi Lynne,

There have been many discussions about this. People differ in opinion. James 1:5, I ask you pray for wisdom & discernment of truth.

Why do you ask, this question like this?

1st we have Luke 16,

Then we have Paradise mentioned 3 times, in: Luke 23:39-46, 2Corinthians 12:2-4, Revelation 2:7,

Out of the Grave: Ezekiel 37:12,13, Matthew 27:52,53, John 5:28,

Judgement : Matthew 25:31-46, Matthew 7, Romans 14:12, 1Peter 4:1-5, Matthew 12:36,

Jesus being the 1st born: Romans 8:29-39,

Hopefully these are helpful

Douglas Borchard,

This prophecy gives the precise time of the first coming of the Messiah. You will receive different understandings of this, it is a study that will take much time. this is just a little information you may use to help your study.

Many put the last week of this prophecy at the end times. It is used for the 7 years of tribulation, a peace treaty with the antichrist (he in verse 27) for 3 1/2 years then 3 years of great tribulation with the taking of the church somewhere between (pre, mid, post).

"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, (70 weeks, 70 x 7 = 490 solar years or 483 prophetic years) on the house of Israel (Daniel's people) and the holy city (Jerusalem). It started from "the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem", make a note, that the rebuilding of the temple is not in this prophecy.

Here are a few verses that may help your study and if this prophecy has been fulfilled or not.

1. To finish the transgression Isaiah 53:5, 8 Isaiah 53:11 Hebrews 9:15-18

2. To make an end of sins Matthew 1:21 Hebrews 10:8-11 John 1:29 1 Corinthians 15:3

1 John 3:5 Psalm 32 Romans 8:3

3. To make reconciliation for iniquity Colossians 1:20-22 Isaiah 53:6 Isaiah 53:11 Ephesians 2:16 ( Titus 2:14 2 Corinthians 5:18-19

4. To bring in everlasting righteousness Romans 5:17-21 Romans 3:21-26 1Peter 2:24

2 Corinthians 5:21 Isaiah 61:10-11

5. To seal up vision and prophecy Daniel 9:23 John 6:27 Mark 1:14-15 Acts 3:18

John 5:36-40 Matthew 11:11-15

6. To anoint the most holy Hebrews 8:1-12 Hebrews 9:6-14

The six things that were determined on Daniel's people and the holy city in this 70-week prophecy; did the Messiah/Jesus fulfill?

God bless,

RLW

Please Lord enrich Leslie with spiritual discernment and encouragement. Please Holy Spirit continually fill Leslie with Your spiritual gifts that she will be a testimony for God

Please consider reading: John 16:33, Psalms 118:8, Psalms 91, 1 John 5:14-15, and 1 Chronicle's 4:10.

Proverbs Chapter 6

16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Colossians 3:8 - But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.thee.

Matthew 6:24 - No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and money.

Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 - Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, (Read More...)

Galatians 5:22 - But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

1 John 5:13-17 - These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. (Read More...)