Discuss John 5 Page 22

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.

Amen to these professions of faith in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

If salvation can be lost, by what means? What is the ultimate sin? Murder? Then the man after God's own heart had to start his salvation all over again. Is God an Indian giver? Here you have my salvation but you practiced free will and sinned so I retract your salvation.??? Really?

Those scriptures you gave are misquoted. 1John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God that ye May KNOW that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. 14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

15 And if we know that he hear us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

Yes! We choose Him as Lord and Savior. We choose to follow Him of our own free will. We are not puppets on a string nor do we want to be.

Salvation at judgement? What Bible are you reading? Blessed Assurance!

CAN SALVATION BE LOST?

May CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did FOREKNOW...

Very few will disagree that God creates every man; since, he created the reproductive process of man; therefore, he FOREKNOWS everyone.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did FOREKNOW, he did ALSO PREDESTINATE to be conformed to the IMAGE of his SON, that he might be the FIRSTBORN among many BRETHERN.

Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did PREDESTINATE, them he also CALLED (presently God is ONLY CALLING those that will be PRIEST in HIS KINGDOM) (the servants in the kingdom will be called at the second resurrection), and whom he CALLED, them HE JUSTIFIED: and whom he JUSTIFIED, them he also GLORIFIED.

Ezekiel 5:3 Thou shall also take thereof a FEW in number ....

Ezekiel 5:4 Then take of them again, and cast them into the midst of the FIRE (IN CHRIST; Hebrews 12:29), and burn (purify; Malachi 3:2-3) them in the FIRE (IN Christ); for thereof (the Priest) shall a FIRE (the saints judging the world; Revelation 21:8) come forth to the house of Israel.

NO ONE is going to alter GOD's PLAN; whatever God PREDESTINED that you are going to do in his kingdom, YOU WILL DO.

All is the works of God; he uses man to do the labour.

1 Peter 1:2

Ephesians 1:5

Romans 9:13

John 5:70

Ephesians 1:4

Hello S Spencer.

Thank you for your thoughts.

Yes, that is what Hebrews 6:4-6 is indeed saying. A person who becomes a true Christian and remains one for years but who later decides, of his own free will, to fall away and no longer serve God and becomes a hater of God - and remains firmly in that state for the rest of his life - will no longer be able to be saved. There is no more forgiveness for them.

Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin WILFULLY after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

2 Peter 2:20 "For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and OVERCOME, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning."

There are 2 types of sins. The sins we make because of our imperfection - which can be forgiven - and the willful, rebellious sin that we chose to do because we no longer love God but have decided our our own free will to be against God. Notice this very carefully at

1 John 5:16-17 "If any man see his brother sin a sin which is NOT unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin NOT unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

John speaks of 2 sins. One is unto death and the other is not. Weaknesses due to our imperfect flesh, is not a sin unto death. But, wickedness not due to our imperfect flesh but due to a heart that has become evil by choice, is a sin unto death - the second death.

Yes, "all unrighteousness is sin" says John. Even if I just lust momentarily at a woman, I have committed a sin. However, sin can be forgiven - unless it is willful. Willful and persistent sin with no repentance is unto death and there remains to more sacrifice for that kind of sin.

I welcome your further thoughts.

Good day.

Jesus came to this earth to provide mankind a savior. Prior to Jesus we did not have a personal savior to intercede with God on our behalf. Not only must we believe in him, we must try to be like him. We must repent from our sins, and strive to be sin free. That is ACTION....we must take ACTION!

It is not enough to just believe in Jesus and you will be now and forever saved. There is no such thing a a get out of hell free card because you believe.

Yes, we must fight the good fight. We are in a battle here on this earth against Satan and evil.

Some seem to think that with Jesus death we can just believe and carry on our normal lives and we will be saved by his Grace. If this was true why would Jesus speak like this in the following two scritures.

John 5:14

"Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee."

John 8:11

"She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more."

Jesus said: SIN NO MORE! Lest worse things will come to us that sin.......

Jesus DID NOT say to those two sinners 'just believe in me and and my grace will take care of you!'

In summary: Jesus is telling all of us to TAKE ACTION!

God Bless

Brother Simon, may CHRIST IN US grace us with His wisdom and His understanding.

I agree, we can only be born again BY RESURRECTION.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in THE FIRST RESURRECTION: on such the second death has no power, but they shall be Priests of God and Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

This happens before the second judgement in Revelation 20:11-13

Luke 20:36 Neither can they die anymore...

Christ is telling the Sadducees; who did not believe in resurrection, that the ones APPOINTED TO DIE with him on his cross would never die again.

Psalms 102:18 This shall be written for the generation to come; and the people which SHALL BE CREATED shall praise the Lord.

Psalms 102:20 ...to loose those APPOINTED TO DEATH

Luke 20:36 ....being the children of the resurrection.

1 Peter 4:17 For the TIME IS COME that JUDGEMENT must begin at the HOUSE OF GOD.....

Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose HOUSE WE ARE...

John 5:22 For the father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgement unto the Son.

2 Corinthians 5:10 We must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ....

We were RESURRECTED with Christ and Christ is dwelling IN US; therefore, Christ's THRONE is IN US and were are BEFORE the THRONE being JUDGED NOW by Christ (the word of God).

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed (flesh), but by incorruptible, by THE WORD (SPIRIT) of God, which LIVETH and ABIDETH forever. (you will never die again after you died ONCE with Christ).

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is APPOINTED unto man ONCE TO DIE (with Christ on the cross or later at the second death), but after this then the JUDGEMENT.

Hebrews 9:28 .....and unto them that look for him shall he appear a SECOND TIME (the first time was in the flesh; the second time in SPIRIT, you don't see him he is like a thief in the night) WITHOUT SIN UNTO SALVATION.

MICHAEL.

PG 3

Matthew 7:24-27 (KJV) Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man,"WHICH BUILT HIS HOUSE UPON A ROCK:"

And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

And every one that "HEAR" these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which "BUILT HIS HOUSE ON SAND:"

And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. ( ONE MAN BUILT HIS HOUS UPON JESUS FINISH WORK ON THE CROSS.) Parallels to Hebrews 10:26-29.

( You can know the way, that doesn't mean you believe in it. you trying to climb up some other kind of way.)

2 Peter 1:8-11. Parallels with 2 Corinthians 13-5. Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, "except ye be reprobates?" (FRUITLESS)

2 Peter 1:8-9"For if these things be in you," and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. IF WHAT THINGS BE IN YOU? ANSWER IN VERSES 5-7. "FRUIT" IF YOU LACK IT YOUR NOT SAVED. YOU KNOW THEM BY THER FRUIT. MATHEWS 7:16.

Romans 11:20-21 (KJV) Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Why were they broken off ? "Because of unbelief?

( Well if you're broken off because of unbelief and it takes belief to be saved then you're not saved, because you didn't believe whom he sent. John 5:38. And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not. ( So how can you loose what you didn't have?)

Hello Michael,

I totally understand your prospective, but lets think for a min. Did Paul and the other

Apostles contradict what Christ himself came to tell us? Christ said: ( Matthew 5:17) Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. So I ask you, has the Heaven and Earth passed away? not at all. So, Here is Christ, himself telling you that the Law is not fulfilled or the Prophets. He also told us to keep his commandments, am I right?

( John 15:10) If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Here is Christ giving you a definition of what the Love of the Father is, it's keeping his commandments.

(1 John 5:3) For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

(1 John 5:2) By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

( John 14:15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.

I can go on and on, The Commandments are a must, it's not an opinion of the Disciples, it's the Doctrine of Christ. The Churches have lied to us when they say we don't have to keep the commandments.

Now, you say once saved, a person must keep himself in God's Love, I showed you what God's love is, Keeping the Commandments but you have twisted that as well. ( Matthew 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. This means that you are not saved until the end, meaning if you die now or when Christ returns. The scriptures are self evident, they need no interpretation from man.

The Creator gave us a road map and free will, Choose wisely but I beg anyone reading this, don't let the Church do your work, Christ gave you Books, read them and pray for understanding, The Spirit will guide you into all Truth!

I use to believe the Roman Catholic teaching of consciousness after death. Like you are not really dead, but go to Heaven, Hell or Purgatory. (And there if in Hell, burn eternally, with no hope of an end).

However, since then I have read in God's Word that this is not so. In John 11:11-14, Jesus tell His apostles that Lazarus is sleeping, but Jesus goes to wake him up. Finally, Jesus tells His apostles that Lazarus is dead. Also, see 1

Thessalonians 4:15-17. And, John 5:28-29. See, Genus 2:7. Ecclesiastes 12:7. Importantly, Psalms 146:3-4. Again, "Who Only Has Immortality? See, 1 Timothy 6:16. And those who SEEK, Romans 2:7. In 1 Corinthians 15:51-54 we learn.... Knowing what God's Word really says is priceless, see, Psalms 115:17, "The dead praise NOT the LORD, neither any that go down into silence." Must read, Ecclesiae's 9:5,6, 10. 5."For the living know that they shall die; but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of then is forgotten. 6. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun. 10. Whatsoever thy hand findet to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goes." NOTE: 2 Timothy 3:16, "ALL Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" There is more, but I think by now you get the idea.... God bless you as you prayerfully Study the above....

Hello Dan.

Thanks for your comments.

The 10 commandments were the first of over 600 commandments given to the nation of Israel. It was inaugurated by a ceremony where the law was read, blood sacrifices were offered, and the people of Israel agreed to obey the whole law. See Exodus 24:3-8. This clearly was a covenant or contract between Israel and God via the mediator Moses.

The New Covenant was inaugurated by the mediator Jesus Christ by his shed blood and is between God and the Church.

See Luke 22:20.

Jeremiah 31:31-33 tells us that God would make a New Covenant. You suggest that the expression "I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts" is referring to the Mosaic laws given to the nation of Israel. However, that can't be correct, since verse 32 clearly says that the New Covenant would not be "according to the covenant I made with their fathers".

If you sign a new lease with your landlord, the old lease becomes obsolete. You can't have 2 leases in force at the same time. They would contradict each other. You can't also have 2 Covenants in force since they too would contradict one another. One says circumcise your children (Mosaic Law) and one says it is not necessary to circumcise your children (New Covenant - see Acts 15.) See Hebrews 8:13.

The Bible differentiates between the Law of Moses and the Law of Christ. The Law of Moses is the Old Covenant and the Law of Christ is the New Covenant - the Laws found in Romans to Revelation.

1 Corinthians 9:21 speaks about the law to Christ (the New Covenant laws of Romans to Revelation).

Galatians 6:2 also refers to the law of Christ. The law of Christ is different from the law of Moses.

God himself gave these new laws of the New Covenant to the Apostle Paul and the other Apostles to transmit to the Church in the epistles. These are the commandments that the Apostle John is referring to in 1 John 5:2, 3.

The Apostles never commanded the Church to obey the sabbath in all the epistles.

Brother Michael,

You suggest that the commandments referred to in 1 John 5:2,3 are not the 10 commandments, but some other new commandments of some sort dreamed up by Paul and the apostles.

Jesus states the following:

John 14:15

"If ye love me, keep my commandments."

Jesus speaks the words directly from his Father:

John 12:49

"For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak."

I read and understand clearly that the commandments referred to in the bible by Jesus and his apostles are the 10 Commandments. To believe otherwise is a stretch of imagination, and not backed up by scripture.

God Bless

Hello Dan.

I would suggest that the "commandments" referred to in 1 John 5:2, 3 are not the 10 commandments nor the Mosaic Law commandments. If that were so, then Christians would be obligated to circumcise their children as per God's commandment at Leviticus 12:3. The New Testament said that circumcision is not required at Acts 15. Yet, that was a commandment of God. If we are to obey all God's commandments, then why do we not go up to Jerusalem three times a year as was commanded by God's commandment at Deuteronomy 16:16. Why do we not stone adulterers and adulteresses as commanded by God at Leviticus 20:10. That was his commandment.

I would suggest that the "commandments" of God referred to at 1 John 5:2, 3 are the New Covenant commandments that were given to the Church through the Apostles via revelations such as to the Apostle Paul and inspiration as others wrote the New Testament - Romans to Revelation. In those instructions, we are never commanded to keep the Sabbath Day holy nor to keep the kosher laws. In fact, we are commanded the opposite:

Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

Therefore, Christians do not obey the Old Covenant Mosaic Law given to ancient Israel but only to the New Covenant Laws given to the Church via the Apostles through the epistles of Romans to Revelation. Jeremiah had prophesied such at:

Jeremiah 31:31, 32 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: NOT according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Hello S Spencer.

Thank you for your insightful comments. I enjoyed reading them. Quite accurate.

Many who quote Matthew 5:17-19 fail to notice an important point, namely, Jesus said, "till all be fulfilled".

Matthew 5:18 "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

The Mosaic Law was fulfilled in Jesus Christ once he died and was resurrected. His death put to death the Mosaic Law as recorded at:

Colossians 2:14-16: "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days."

Romans 7:6 "But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter."

Romans 10:4 "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

Many who quote Matthew 5:17-19 often do not notice what Jesus said in the parallel account at:

Luke 16:16 "The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it."

There, Jesus said further that the law, that is, the Mosaic Law, was UNTIL John. After John, it would be the New Covenant that was inaugurated by Jesus' shed blood. (See Luke 22:20.)

Thus, 1 John 5:2, 3 and all other verses in the New Testament (Romans to Revelation), referring to God's commandments, does not refer to the 10 commandments nor the Mosaic Law commandments but only to the laws of the New Covenant (Romans to Revelation). In that New Testament Law, no instruction is ever made to keep the Sabbath Day or to circumcise all males, etc.

I share these thoughts with you and hope you enjoy them.

Another from Chris.

Thank you Michael for that clear & concise response. If the foundations of biblical teaching or doctrine are not properly laid, the building cracks will develop & bring destruction. I find that many Christians, whether because of Church teaching or from their own surmisings, look at Scriptures such as John 14:15 & immediately apply the obedience to the Law for all people, that which was given only to Israel.

To do so, several things have to be overlooked or rejected: to whom was God speaking in the OT & to whom was Jesus speaking prior to His crucifixion? Only to Israel, none else. Gentiles weren't even in the picture pertaining to the Law & never have been. What was the reason for giving the Law? God's code of conduct (spiritual, moral & social) for His people, His Mark of separation from the heathen - Leviticus 26:46, (as also with circumcision: Genesis 17:10), & to demonstrate to Israel a godly standard that as sinners they could never fully obey ( Galatians 3:21-26).

But then we get verses such as Matthew 5:17-19 which are often used to support the eternal nature & applicability of the Law to all people. To those under the Law, indeed, the Law is current & will be used against them. To those who have escaped the curse of the Law & have found new life in Christ, have learned that Christ has indeed fulfilled all the Law, forever abrogating it & thru His Death ushered in a new & better Covenant ( Hebrews 8:6-13).

What then do we do with Scriptures (e.g. 1 John 5:2,3) that say we must obey God's commandments? Are John & others pointing the believer back to the letter of the Law that kills or rather to the Spirit Who gives life ( 2 Corinthians 3:6)? It is the Spirit's Law in our hearts that frees us from the Law of sin & death ( Romans 8:2). To give consent to both, that which is opposed to each other, weakens (even negates) the power of the New Covenant through Christ's Blood & the keeping of the Sabbath ever stands as a centrepiece to

Repenting from evil/sin is one of the most important things in the Bible. OT and NT. There is nothing else to repent of.

Romans 6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Christ preaching repent and to sin no more: Matthew 4:17, John 5:14, John 8:11.

In Revelation Jesus Christ makes it quite clear He's talking about repenting from sin/evil deeds.

Revelation 2:22-23 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they REPENT OF THEIR DEEDS.

And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am He which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your WORKS.

Read the first three chapters of Revelation to see what Christ is saying to the believers in the seven churches. He doesn't say "just because you believe everything is ok".

True faith in Jesus Christ is more than just believing. Like stated the most evil demonic people can believe in Jesus Christ but live according to the devil.

Faith without works is dead faith. James 2:26.

God Bless.

Brother Chris,

You are ignoring tons of scripture regarding God's Commandments.....

I will comment on a few of your comments.

You ask - What then do we do with Scriptures (e.g. 1 John 5:2,3) that say we must obey God's commandments? That is a good question! If we believe what you are saying, then we need to ignore this scripture. In addition, there is a multitude of scripture including scripture from Jesus that asks us to follow God's commandments, are we to ignore all of this scripture too?

Yes, we must obey God's commandments. When we fail and sin, which all will, we can now be forgiven though Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ's death does NOT cancel God's commandments. God's commandments guide us and provides moral direction. Yes, apostle John and others followed Gods commandments and based on their scripture we should be doing the same.

You ask - Are John & others pointing the believer back to the letter of the Law that kills or rather to the Spirit Who gives life ( 2 Corinthians 3:6)? Yes, John and others are pointing back to the Law/10 Commandments. There is no easy way to get to heaven. If we ignore the commandments and live in sin....we perish!

You quote this scripture: It is the Spirit's Law in our hearts that frees us from the Law of sin & death ( Romans 8:2). This scripture from Paul sounds great but it does NOT provide us with a free ticket to sin. The scripture is about the Spirts Law - is the Holy Spirit residing in our heart that helps us to avoid sin.

You state: To give consent to both, that which is opposed to each other, weakens (even negates) the power of the New Covenant through Christ's Blood & the keeping of the Sabbath ever stands as a centrepiece to cause both error & division.

Ok, so we can believe in the new modern popular doctrine pointing to minimizing or eliminating the need to observe God's commandments or we can be (old fashioned) and believe in the bible and the 10 Commandments. I choose the latter.

God Bless

Thank you Michael for that clear & concise response. If the foundations of biblical teaching or doctrine are not properly laid, the building cracks will develop & bring destruction. I find that many Christians, whether because of Church teaching or from their own surmisings, look at Scriptures such as John 14:15 & immediately apply the obedience to the Law for all people, that which was given only to Israel.

To do so, several things have to be overlooked or rejected: to whom was God speaking in the OT & to whom was Jesus speaking prior to His crucifixion? Only to Israel, none else. Gentiles weren't even in the picture pertaining to the Law & never have been. What was the reason for giving the Law? God's code of conduct (spiritual, moral & social) for His people, His Mark of separation from the heathen - Leviticus 26:46, (as also with circumcision: Genesis 17:10), & to demonstrate to Israel a godly standard that as sinners they could never fully obey ( Galatians 3:21-26).

But then we get verses such as Matthew 5:17-19 which are often used to support the eternal nature & applicability of the Law to all people. To those under the Law, indeed, the Law is current & will be used against them. To those who have escaped the curse of the Law & have found new life in Christ, have learned that Christ has indeed fulfilled all the Law, forever abrogating it & thru His Death ushered in a new & better Covenant ( Hebrews 8:6-13).

What then do we do with Scriptures (e.g. 1 John 5:2,3) that say we must obey God's commandments? Are John & others pointing the believer back to the letter of the Law that kills or rather to the Spirit Who gives life ( 2 Corinthians 3:6)? It is the Spirit's Law in our hearts that frees us from the Law of sin & death ( Romans 8:2). To give consent to both, that which is opposed to each other, weakens (even negates) the power of the New Covenant through Christ's Blood & the keeping of the Sabbath ever stands as a centrepiece to cause both error & division.

Living under the new covenant today does not take away from God's 10 commandments. Many people today quote and misquote apostle Paul's writings. This simple truth is that the apostle Paul does not have the authority to cancel any of God's commandments.

Jesus respected his Father and his commandments and Jesus did not cancel any of the 10 commandments. Please read and try to understand the following scriptures spoken directly by Jesus Christ while he was on this earth.

John 14:15

"If ye love me, keep my commandments."

John 14:21

"He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."

John 15:10

"If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love."

Matthew 5:17

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

Matthew 5:18

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

Paul and the other disciples honored and followed the 10 commandments including the 4th commandment. See apostle John's scripture below:

1 John 2:3

"And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments."

1 John 5:2

"By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments."

1 John 5:3

"For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous."

2 John 1:6

"And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it."

Please read the scriptures and pray for understanding.

God bless

Hi Rob,

I don't think anyone here has ever said Jesus Christ is God the Father. He is the only begotten Son of God. Like you stated flesh from being born of Mary. Though no virgin can give birth to a person. They must be conceived. The Holy Ghost is what conceived Mary. The Holy Ghost is of God. Jesus Christ was not just a human like you or me. He was part human part God.

I was wondering if it was the same Rob I have had conversations before about the divinity of Christ. In your question about "God not being flesh". Which I believe we all know. Also has nothing to do with Jesus Christ being God the Son.

He is on the right hand of God. Nothing is above Him and everything is below Him. Just as God the Father as they are ONE. Also the He existed before the world was.

As I might as well bring this up as well as I know some believe this view. That Jesus Christ received the Holy Ghost at His baptism in the Jordan. Maybe because of the vision John saw of the Spirit descending upon Him. Which to me was just for a testimony. Also as God spoke from Heaven. John the baptist was filled with the Holy Ghost from his mothers womb as in Luke 1:15. I don't understand how anyone could think the Holy Ghost/Spirit of God was not with Jesus Christ from His mothers womb also. Also in that John was born of two human parents. Not as Christ in that God is His real Father. Even showing Jesus knew he was the Son of God in Luke 2:49. As we who are born again, knowing God is our Father, receiving the the Holy Spirit of adoption as in Romans 8:15-16. Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God and ONE with God the Father. Along with the Holy Ghost. 1 John 5:7.

No one said anyone gave anything to God the Father.

God Bless.

Page 2.

Re: the Lake of Fire. It is prepared for the Devil & his angels ( Matthew 25:41) but is also the place where all Christ-rejecters go to in the final judgement ( Revelation 20:10-15) & particularly verse 15, "whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." And that includes not only the Devil & his angels but also the anti-Christ, the false prophet & all mankind that were not found in the Book of Life.

"Who created such a place?" I would say that God has done this. "Who does "the torturing in hell?" No one - it is a place of continual fire where the act of dying is continual but death that is longed for never comes ( Mark 9:43-48).

And these are not parables by Jesus; Jesus is telling us what lies beyond the grave. And that is why Jesus came to die on our behalf: that we might be spared God's Judgement to enjoy new life on Earth & then eternity in His Presence. As I mentioned before, if just dying & returning to dust was our punishment, the Gospel would be practically meaningless, as we all have to die & enter into such a state of 'oblivion'. But Jesus says that some will awake to "the resurrection of life & some to the resurrection of damnation" ( John 5:29). There is no permanent middle ground at the graveside - we all have to go somewhere else - and that's why the Gospel is so special & precious: it saves a person entirely, both in this life and the next.

Thank you Steven. To bring that to a personal level: when we are led of God's Spirit, the wrist watch, diary or calendar are both unnecessary & irrelevant. We may need those things for our day-to-day activities & to keep appointments, but in God's economy His Spirit gives us both timing & direction.

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God"; the Spirit will always lead us, as God's children, but do we always obey His leading? Can we ever step outside that leading & that Will for us & not grieve the Spirit by doing so? As Jesus always sought His Father's Will in everything ( John 5:30), He fulfilled God's Plan for Him & Israel to the very last minute. How often we wonder whether we're in the centre of God's Will & might even become despondent in our circumstances - rather, we ought to be sure that there's nothing hindering the Spirit's Words & Work in our lives & that our ears are always inclined towards Him, rather than to the voices around us.

And yes, the Jews ought to have known from the Scriptures that the Messiah had come to them & by the many proofs Jesus had shown them. But that knowledge mixed with human perceptions compelled them to reject Jesus.

They would have asked, 'How could the Messiah oppose or contradict the very Law He should have rather fully supported & expounded on? A breaker of the Sabbath? Allowing an adulterous woman to live? A forgiver of sins? How could He claim to be God's Son - God is One? Joseph was a descendant from David, & Jesus was not Joseph's son - Mary's lineage wasn't considered - Jesus didn't fulfil Messianic prophecy? Where is the liberator from the Roman oppression; instead we get a humble, self-sacrificing holy Man?'

As the Word says, "He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them." ( John 12:40; Isaiah 6:10). BUT He became the Saviour to all who would believe.

The one True God, Yahweh is spelled with a capital G, not a lower case g. And furthermore, God exists is three persons as stated in 1 John 5:7 quotes, "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

Genesis 1:26, "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."

Notice how the Triune God is mentioned several times by references plural pronouns such as us and our; describing the Trijne Godhead.

Mark 12:36-37 quotes, "For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool. David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son? And the common people heard him gladly."

John 1-5 quotes, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

John 1:14 quotes, "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

John 19:30 quotes, "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."

John 15:26-27 quotes, "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning."

The Father, Yahweh is God, Jesus is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. They are the same person.

Wow. You shall be in my prayers. You just stated the Father, the Son(Jesus Christ), and the Holy Ghost are confused? It is clear you do not believe the Scriptures and have your own carnal idea of God. Matthew 12:32, Matthew 12:36.

Also you do not believe, or understand, the words of Christ like John 10:30?

You know God says listen to His Son right? Matthew 17:5. Even further like the Angel of the LORD in the OT. Exodus 23:20-22.

Also to glorify the Son is to glorify the Father. As they are ONE. John 14:13-14. The only way to eternal life is through the Son of God. John 14:6. 1 John 5:11-13.

God is ONE. I pray the Lord leads you to leave your own beliefs behind and trust Him and His Word.

You seem to believe in the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Though you seem to doubt who the Lord is just like the Pharisees did. Bringing Him down to "just a man". Matthew 5:20.

God Bless.

Dear Bob,

Im assuming you are serious so Ill ask you a question... Have you ever talked to yourself? Who is talking and who is listening?

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Rom 1:20"



God is who he says HE IS, whether we understand it or not.

That is hard to accept because pride and human reasoning get in our way.

Read Pauls answer to another question that cannot be answered by our frame of reference.

" Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?"

It's actually a good question from our point of reference. God asks us to believe, "That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God 1Cor 2:5". and "without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him Heb 11:6"

Understanding will be given to us if we are believe first.

By the way God does, has and always will agree with Himself. John 5:7-8. You will one day as well if you are saved.

May God bless his word and thank you for your sincerity.

Dear Adam, You seem sincere so I will honor your reply. To rightly understand this, we must first use the instructions given to us by God and rightly divide the scriptures. Saved must be understood in context. For the saints under the law at the time of Christ and for those who will have to endure the time of Jacobs trouble (enduring to the "end" of the tribulation and entering into the promised Kingdom of Heaven on earth given to Israel), will be essential. Many if not most will have to die and be martyred to keep the faith. Their works will be evidence of their faith and will be essential as a testimony to that. That is why you read so many verses about that in Matt, Mk, Lk, Jn, Hebrews, James, Peter, 1-3 John Jude and Rev. You are correct in understanding that those during that time would be able to abandon their faith and would be judged for it. When the Kingdom of Christ is again set up through the believing remnant and reigning, the law of God will flow from Zion for the whole world. Violation of Gods law will be dealt with through righteous judgment and the penalty for transgressions will be quick. (please read about Ananias and Saphira in Acts.5:1-11)

That is why 1 John says to the saints of that time not to pray for some sins. See 1 John 5:16. Remember that Christ gave and will give the Apostles in the Kingdom of Heven on earth the divine authority to forgive sins or not. John 20:23. Matt 19:28. When Israel rejected the witness of the the Holy Spirit Act 7:54-60, God set aside Israel and Chose to reveal through the Apostle Paul a new dispensation. See Ephesians 3. Until the body of Christ is removed and the fullness of the gentiles if come in, works are not part of salvation. Believers can do nothing to be made righteous but believe in the faith of Christ. God seals us with His Holy Spirit and we are immersed into the Body of Christ and adopted into his heavenly family. Rom 8.Our works will be judged but we will be saved See 1 For 3:15. Eph 2:8-9 God Bless

satan's spiritual relationship with antichrist parallels that of God to Jesus.

-God's Spirit is counterfeited by satan spirit

-Jesus' Spirit is counterfeited by antichrist spirit

-Holy Ghost is counterfeited by the false prophet spirit

1) Jesus's ministry was 42 months

To: ( Revelation 13:5) antichrist receives 42 months

2) ( Revelation 1:8)

To ( Revelation 17:8)

3) ( Revelation 5:6)

To: ( Revelation 13:3)

The three evil spirits that God had stricken us with, to prove us, are gone. ( Revelation 16:13) ( Revelation 19:20) ( Revelation 20:10). It is the dragon (satan) the boss that gets locked up for 1,000 years..

Below is conclusive "mirroring" evidence of the spirit world hierarchy:

( Daniel 8:24) And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.

"but not by his own power" as that power comes from the dragon, given from God.

( Revelation 13:2) And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

"the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority". satan gives power to antichrist, antichrist is the son of satan, but antichrist is not satan. antichrist is under the possession of satan.

( Titus 2:13) Many scriptures point to Jesus being God, but this hierarchy evidence can't be overlooked. Jesus told his adversaries all along who he was, but they didn't have the wherewithal to grasp it, Jesus continually said His power was not of His own, but of the Father. The theologians argue this paradox out to contention.

( John 5:19) ...The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do....

( John 12:49) For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me....

Hello all,

I just thought I would state this detail of a verse that came to light.

In Colossians 1:19. For it pleased the Father that in Him should all fulness dwell;

As this is after speaking of Jesus Christ being the image of the invisible God and by Him and for Him were all things created. You may note that "the Father" is in italics in verse 19. Because in the Textus Receptus it is not there. It would actually read something like "for in Him it was pleasing that all the fullness dwelt".

Jesus Christ is more than a man and He existed before He was born. He was in on Creation. I can't understand how some would state that all the Words in His mouth were of His Father. Of coarse I understand the Father is in Him and giving Him all His Words to speak. Though you can easily see Jesus Christ is His own person with His own soul. Speaking to and of the Father constantly. Jesus Christ is most definitely ONE with the Father and just as much God though the Son. He is at the right Hand of God. A couple more verses stating He existed before He was born: John 3:12-13, John 6:38, John 5:45-47, John 6:62, John 8:58.

Maybe just to bring up the Angel of the LORD in the OT. Just one instance is Exodus 23:21. Not just a regular angel or even an archangel. How in Joshua 5:13-15. Where a Host of YHWH tells Joshua to take his shoes off for he is on Holy ground. As in Exodus 3:1-6. Again said to be an Angel of the LORD which is then stated as YHWH. God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Where Moses is told to take His shoes off. I would think because where YHWH is, is Holy ground.

I believe the Angel of the Lord in the OT is the pre incarnate Jesus Christ. Could I be wrong? Yes. As I have many other things to prove YHWH is not just one as normal people may perceive. Almighty God is ONE period.

I really don't know why people are trying to attack the deity of Christ. One day we will all have to stand before Him.

God Bless.

Hi Bob,

Obviously you took my post incorrectly. I'll try using Scriptures again.

I never said Christ and the Father was not a relationship. You brought this up. I never said Christ is the Father or the Father is Christ as it seems you took it. I know it's a Father Son relationship. Again John 10:30, John 14:11, John 17:21. Revelation 3:21. For a couple.

Some say the Father being in Christ means He left Heaven. God spoke from Heaven several times proving that false. Matthew 3:17, Matthew 17:5, John 12:28.

Here are a couple stating the Spirit of Truth or Holy Ghost as He/Him: John 14:17, John 14:26. Putting the three in ONE as in 1 John 5:7.

As I've been trying to answer your questions though you seemed to have veered from mine. No one knows the depths and ways of God. He can do anything He wants. Isaiah 40:28, Isaiah 55:8-9. Just like giving all His power and authority to His Son so we honor Him just as we honor the Father. Matthew 28:18, John 5:22-23. Not knowing your beliefs on this but no one can say Christ did not exist before He was born here. Christ Himself stated this and there are other Scriptures that back this up also. John 17:4-5. All I do is use the Scriptures. I have no private interpretation as that is not what the Scriptures are for. 2 Peter 1:20.

Nothing is falling apart for me. I've given you many Scriptural verses as I have not seen one from you. Also I really don't even know your motive for making the first post the other night. The reason I made the reply is because you said something about a "man made trinity doctrine". Which I showed you is not man made it's Biblical.

Still not getting into how many titles the Father and Son share. Not knowing if it would make any difference to you.

I'm not here to argue and don't take my post that way please. You may have your own view.

Again as I hope I've answered your questions. I'll just leave the one again.

Do you believe the Scriptures I've posted?

Thank you. God Bless.

John 10:30 I and my Father are ONE.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are ONE.

Do you believe these Scriptures? As I could put more titles that both Jesus Christ and LORD(from the OT) share if you'd like.

There is no trinity "doctrine". That is what is in the Holy Bible. Trinity is just a word of tri/three + unity= trinity. Jesus Christ is ONE with God the Father and so is the Holy Ghost.

And in those days, the Chosen One will sit on his Throne, and all the Secrets of Wisdom will flow out from the council of His mouth, for the Lord of Spirits has appointed Him and glorified Him.

So as you are a man are you trying to explain God yourself? All we do is read the Scriptures.

Just feeling to reply to this. Not really wanting to.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the FATHER, and of the SON, and of the HOLY GHOST:

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the FATHER, the WORD, and the HOLY GHOST: and these THREE are ONE.

Revelation 19:11-14 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and He that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He doth judge and make war.

His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns; and He had a name written, that no man knew, but He Himself.

And He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and His name is called The WORD of GOD.

One definition from "Logos" or "Word" in Greek. In John, denotes the essential Word of God, Jesus Christ, the personal wisdom and power in union with God, his minister in creation and government of the universe, the cause of all the world's life both physical and ethical, which for the procurement of man's salvation put on human nature in the person of Jesus the Messiah, the second person in the Godhead, and shone forth conspicuously from His words and deeds. A Greek philosopher named Heraclitus first used the term Logos around 600 B.C. to designate the divine reason or plan which coordinates a changing universe. This word was well suited to John's purpose in John 1.

John 17:3-5 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

If you can't believe in Scripture that Jesus Christ Himself says He existed before the world was. Just one place. I can't help you.

Jesus Christ did exist before He was born. Other Scriptures state this also.

God Bless.

Satan thrown out of heaven: and they overcame him by the blood of the lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death revelation 12:11.their spiritual state of being: i have written to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of god abides in you, and you have overcome the wicked one 1 john 2:14. obedience of faith: for whatever is born of god overcomes the world. and this is the victory that has overcome the world_ our faith. who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that jesus is the son of god? 1 john 5:4-5. glory to god: now to him able to keep you from stumbling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, to god our savior, who alone is wise, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and forever.amen jude 1:24-25