Discuss John 5 Page 26

And just to your other question about the Godhead: that's correct, when the term Godhead is used (as in Colossians 2:9: "For in him (i.e. in Jesus) dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily."), it is understood that the Trinity is spoken of, as the Godhead in His Fullness constitutes the Person of His Son & the Person of His Holy Spirit.

If any of the Persons were absent, then the Godhead (or, Trinity) would be incomplete & God wouldn't be God as revealed in the Scriptures & to our spirits. His Fullness & Unity are expressed as God the Father, the Son & the Holy Spirit: "these Three are One" (1 John 5:7).

Steve, I think we've broached this matter before in our discussions. Whilst I believe in the complete Unity of God & that God is One, but from Him, we are taught from the Scriptures, proceed the Word & the Spirit. Though the original comment by Roy was one of 'fatherhood', I believe that the Word sent from God to become Man, expresses God's Fatherhood to His Son Jesus Christ. However, since the Unity of God has never been broken, the Son even at the Father's right Hand, remains wholly within the Unity of God & the full expression of His Person.

Of Jesus in the OT is written: Isaiah 9:6, Psalm 45:6,7 (cf Hebrews 1:8), Psalm 110:1, Daniel 7:13,14.

In the NT: John 1:1-14, Philippians 2:5-8, Titus 2:13 (cf John 20:28), 1 John 5:20 & many more.

So I don't believe it was the RCC or the Nicene Council that introduced the understanding of the Godhead, but what we see & learn from the Scriptures. But to say that Jesus is presently the Almighty God, without the presence of the Father in Heaven is wrong, as other Scriptures attest to it. The apostles & early Church believed in the deity of Christ & so we take it from there & hold onto it, even though our human understanding is limited & weak to understand the personality of God & His revelation to us.

I agree, we often take on board thoughts & words that we give little heed to, & this results in a repetition that we don't know the reason for. I understand that when we approach God with our needs & requests, we know that He does hear us as we ask in His Will & in faith. But we also know that it is only because of His Son Jesus Christ that we even dare to approach Him & come boldly before the Throne & that any request we can make, can only be because of our relationship to Him & the authority we have through Him.

Now, I don't believe for a moment that if a person fails to end his prayer with "In Jesus' Name", has a prayer destined for failure to reach Heaven. Often in a time of praise to God (which I believe ought to take the majority of time spent in His Presence, even as the angels do who surround His Throne), we don't cease our praise time with that ending. But I think, that to utter those final words is a confirmation to our own hearts that we have asked for things & approached God's Throne on no better authority than His blessed Son. As well, we say "Amen" (or, 'so be it' or 'let it be so'), as our final 'word' to God, that in faith we believe that we "have the petitions that we desired of Him" (1 John 5:15).

I believe you will find your answer by reading the same account in Mark 10:17-25. In Mark, the added remark of "Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God" (v 24).

So wealth is not the problem, unless of course one is distracted by it or uses what God has given, unwisely. But the point of Jesus' remark was that He detected that this young man's heart was not right. He might have "kept all the commandments" as he said, but in fact Jesus noticed that he broke the very first commandment, "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me". This man went away sad, as it wasn't just his wealth that held him back, but his love, trust & dependence that he placed on it, that relegated God into second place. And indeed, it doesn't have to be money that can cause us to put our God & Saviour into second spot. 1 John 5:21.

Jesus is God. 1 John 5:7

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

There are not 3 gods. He ( God lowered himself a little lower than the angels) read Hebrews all of Hebrews.

He took on the seed of Abraham Hebrews 2:6 Jesus came to die for the lost sheep of the house of Israel. I could say so much on this subject. Speaking of the fallen angels & the devil : 1 Corinthians 2:8

"Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory."

King James Version (KJV)

John chapter 10 ..

No man took his life he lay it down

Jesus IS God..

there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. 17Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. 19There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings. 20And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him? 21Others said, These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind?

John 14:9; John 1:1,14; Isaiah 10:30; John 8:58; Colossians 2:9; 1 John 5:7.

Just to add: I also see that Jesus' sin bearing act which was based on such great Love for us, also meant a temporary loss of fellowship & communion with the Father - one that He constantly enjoyed prior to this time ( John 14:10, John 17:5, John 5:19,20).

In His great agony & distress, such an estrangement would have been almost unbearable, even comparable to the responsibility He carried by having all our sin & guilt placed upon Him. At a time when comfort, any comfort, would have given some small relief, the Father remained quiet, not allowing anything to hamper or hinder that ultimate work of salvation. Jesus knew this, but in His Humanity, His Cry was not just because of the pain in the flesh, but the pain of losing that constant blessed fellowship & ministry which was His right by His position in the Godhead.

I wonder whether Jesus' anguish & pain was also not felt by the Father - that it must have been a difficult response by God to remain incommunicado & estranged even for a short period of time. The break in any fellowship can be painful. But when sin is not the basis for pain & suffering, the agony becomes so much worse, yet it's ensuing result became the hope & joy of the world.

This is what I know. God is a spirit and a consuming fire. Jesus is fully God and fully man. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ

The Holy Spirit is invisible.

King James Bible

Hebrews 12:29

For our God is a consuming fire.

Deuteronomy 4:24

For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.

John 4:24

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

John 15:26

But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

The Scriptures about the Godhead. Sometimes called "Let Us..." in some passages. Three persons: all are one God.

Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7

Isaiah 6:8

Romans 1:20

Colossians 2:9

Acts 17:27-30

1 John 5:7

John 10:30

Maybe you'd like to add a KJV Bible to your bookcase?

Blessings, Mishael

The Father purposes; wills

The Son is the Word of God, speaks it

The Holy Spirit performs the the spoken Word of God

When we speak the Word of God over an issue or condition in our lives; according to the Known Will of God (the Bible, OT and NT); the Holy Spirit moves to accomplish it.

All three are one; not Separated.

Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7

1 John 5:7, John 10:30

Acts 17:27-30

Isaiah 6:8

Romans 1:20

Colossians 2:9

They speak amongst themselves.

Write these scriptures on the inside cover of your Bible now. This subject comes up often. The scriptures are plain enough to be understood.

Debates and arguing theologies according to varying opinions cause confusion. Acts 17 should dispel that.

Mishael

Christians don't believe in 3 separate Gods. Christians believe the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one, because it literally says that in the Bible in 1 John 5:7 and Christians believe the Bible is the Word of God. It also is mentioned in other verses: Link

The Scriptures about the Godhead. Sometimes called "Let Us..." in some passages.

Each scripture demonstrates all 3 persons speaking together: Father, Word, Holy Spirit.

Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7

Isaiah 6:8

Romans 1:20

Colossians 2:9

Acts 17:27-30

1 John 5:7

John 10:30

Theres at least 10 scriptures proving it. If you find more, let me know.

Mishael

I've seen this same discussion played out repeatedly online and I'm not sure if either party learns anything from the exchange. The scriptures shared to support each point of view doesn't seem surprising to either party, but some seem to put more emphasis on one set of scriptures and less on another. Both sides agree grace through faith is what saves Ephesians 2:8-9. I've noticed that one side sometimes assumes the other side doesn't believe in grace, but that's a false assumption. I think the key question is how important is it to avoid sin? According to Jesus very important: Matthew 5:48.

Many of the parables were spoken to his followers (Christians) to fear God and keep his commandments and that narrow is the gate leading to heaven (few will find it) and wide is the gate leading to hell. If all Christians are already saved what's the point of trying? Maybe not all Christians who assume they are saved are and maybe some are lukewarm. Matthew 7:21-23. I think it's safe to say that Christianity is an active religion- the term literally means a Christ follower which involves action and movement.

If someone follows Christ I believe they can have confidence in their salvation. John 5:24 If someone lives an entire life of sin and follows the world and puts their treasure in the world and not in heaven, but they were sprinked as a baby or responded to an altar call 40 years ago, are they really a Christ follower? God is the judge, but I think that person should be afraid of going to hell and should turn from evil and follow Jesus, because of scriptures like Luke 12:5.

We're all impefect and sin, just as Paul admitted he struggled with, but that shouldn't stop someone from trying very hard to avoid sin, be obedient, and be a light to the world as Jesus said. I think someone who thinks they earned a get out of jail free card and uses it as a license to enjoy a life of sin and pursue evil will be surprised in the end as predicted in Matthew 7:21-23.

The favor of God can be described as "tangible evidence that a person has the approval of the Lord." When we favor someone, we want to be with him or her. We delight in him/her. We connect with him/her in a way we don't connect with everyone else. We usually favor people who also favor us. IN THE SAME WAY, God shows favor to the ones who delight in, connect with, and give honor to Him. Isaiah 66:2 says, "These are the ones I look on with favor: those who are humble and contrite in spirit, and who tremble at my word." 2 Chronicles 16:9 says, "For the eyes of the LORD run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to show himself strong on behalf of them whose heart is perfect toward him." To be "perfect" toward Him means we seek His favor more than we seek the favor of anyone else, even ourselves.

Proverbs 8:35; "For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favor of the LORD."

Psalm 5:12 "For thou, Lord, wilt bless the righteous; with favor wilt thou compass him as with a shield."

Proverbs 3:4; "So shalt thou find favor and good understanding in the sight of God and man."

Satisfy me Lord with favor and fill me with blessing in the name of Jesus!

In the mighty name of Jesus, I claim...

-help reading your Word, daily

- divine wisdom from your Word

- patience with my family

- divine favor in family and business

- prosperity, bless tithes and offerings

-shield me from satanic attacks

- lend me angelic support

- the release of finances

Isaiah 26:3

You keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on you, because he trusts in you.

Luke 13:11; John 5:5; Acts 10:38; Acts 3:2; Acts 4:9

Go back to The Garden of Eden. To all the beasts of the field were attributes given to survive. Some have speed, some have stealth, some wings to leave the ground, some claws and others teeth to break bone. And yet Man who has none of these attributes was given the Authority to Rule over all of The Garden. This is because the strength of man is in the refuge of Christ. Christ made all and He is our refuge for power, strength and authority. But remember, the Kingdom Of God is in humility, servitude and mercy. So the smallest good deed of sharing is power, strength and authority given to us from Christ for His Love of us to be with Him in The Kingdom of God. Amen!

People forget 2 Churches (1 of GOD & Christ) (1 of Satan Church Of Mahon) Remember: Read Line Upon Line, Precept upon Precept, a Little Here, a Little There:

Here's the Problem

1.) John 5:23

That all men should honour the Son, euen as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not e Sonne, honoreth not e Father which hath sent him.

2.) John 10:38

But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

3.) John 14:13

And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son

Here's The True Word:

1.) 1 Peter 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for euer: & this is the word which by the Gospel is preached vnto you.

2.) Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not;

3.) Matthew 4:10 for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

4.) Luke 4:8 Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Didn't you take on the name of Christ when you were saved? If the answer is yes, then why would you not also take on the attribute to be sinless, to sin no more? In John 5:14 and John 8:11 Jesus tells man and woman to go and sin no more. Also note that Jesus taught that we will be known by our fruit, which is either good or evil. Matthew 7:16-20 here Jesus tells us that the tree will either be good or evil not both. Which are you, good or evil? If you still sin, you are evil.

Satan was not in Heaven. He was not cast out of Heaven anywhere in the Bible. He was not an angel of God ever. This presents us with a God that cannot control His angels, nor can He actually save us from sin if you still commit sin after being saved. Let's consider something here. A person knows he's sinned, he feels convicted of it. He then repents and asks God to forgive his sins. By faith it is done. The sins he used to do is forgiven and forgotten. Now since God is more than fair to us all, let's reverse things. The man that was saved commits sin. He is no longer saved because he repented, changed his mind is part of repentance. His life of salvation is now forgotten. That is how this works. You are not saved and sin too. Yes I know there is the 2nd work to be done called sanctification that a person that is currently saved from sin can ask God to remove his carnal nature and clean his spiritual heart and to fill it with the Holy Ghost. Now that person is truly free from all committed and inherited sins. But he does not go about still committing sin or he is lost still.

Question: if you are saved and yet commit sin, when do you stop sinning? When you enter the Kingdom of God? If yes, then the Kingdom of God is here now for you to enter. Come to the Church Of God, a church building where the saved do not say they're saved and yet sin.

So again the question, do you claim salvation and still sin? You as the tree are either good or evil not both. Saved or sinner. Only two choices.

Thank you rob.

The Godhead Scriptures

Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7

Isaiah 6:8

Romans 1:20

Colossians 2:9

Acts 17:27-30

1 John 5:7

John 10:30

There's only 10 scriptures proving it.

However I found another one tonight.

Wow...eleven Holy Scriptures; Divine and Inspired. Written in the Bible on paper and not altered by people.

Thank You. I will continue to study this.

Most people do not understand, and I don't have it all figured out my self . But it is getting clearer as I study it , it's not easy . Do not get over whelmed With this but Trust the Lord and ask him to show you things . It takes time .

There are many false interpretations to be sure so don't rush into any of them .

The book of revelation is a revelation, so it unfolds it's self in time . Look at the Antichrist so many people speculate about it . But when the time is , it will be easy to understand and those that look to the word will do well . Others will have abandoned the word and be deceived.

I could say lots but this long already . Work on being faithful to what you know , Trust God with the unknown , He is already there .

Saved, sanctify, or set apart means that one puts on the armor of God. The armor is God's laws, statutes, and commandments in which one applies to their life therefore saving you from the evils and wickedness of the world. Doing these laws, statutes and commandments will bring upon blessings and the ultimate reward, eternal life.

Levitcus 20:7 reads Sanctify yourselves therefore, be ye holy: for I Am the LORD which sanctify(save, set apart) you.

james 1:25...But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

john 3:15-21...15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

I get confused and find it hard to understand The Judgements. White Throne, etc. Judgement when they open the Lamb's Book of Life. The judgement when those saved received their rewards. Can you be Saved and still receive no rewards? I also do not understand the 1,000 year reign. I am 76 years old and really get confused on the end times.. I appreciate any help that you can give me the simplifies it. God Bless You For your Help

Dear Diane, the fact that you care and are concerned enough to post a prayer request shows where your heart is. That's a good thing. Christians are not immune to temptation, sin, and spiritual strongholds, but should try to do everything in your power to break them. Paul was a strong Christian, but still described how he struggled with the fleshly temptations of sin. There are general Christian addition support groups through church like Celebrate Recovery that may offer helpful support. Ephesians 6:10-18

It is my belief that if you have become a Christian (Link and genuinely following Christ then by definition you are Christian and are saved by grace and can have confidence in your salvation. 1 John 5:13. Hebrews 4:16, Philippians 4:13. I believe following Christ is an active pursuit and we always have room to grow and mature and be more like Him.

God bless...

Hi Candace,

We live in a fallen world that shows great contrast between good and evil. Ephesians 6:10-12. Satan is allowed to rule the world and there's plenty of evidence of that. 1 John 5:19

We are only on earth a short time and are given freewill to choose who we want to follow: Jesus or Satan. Most people choose Satan and his signature is lies. We see more lies and deception today than ever- a big one is the news media spreading complete lies that they know is untrue, but still they enjoy doing the work of the devil and they financially benefit from stirring up drama.

We have an election between a candidate that wants to mass-murder babies and give 8 year olds hormones to transition, vs. someone who is strongly against it, but strangely, many Christians have been deceived themselves into voting for mass murder- to destroy God's creation, somehow thinking it's a 'lesser evil', even though there is no greater evil than mass murdering babies- more than the holocaust just in the US and their hearts and souls cry out to God and God hears their cry and will seek justice. Many people have been deceived by the devil and don't even realize it.

If God didn't allow any problems and didn't allow us to be tested or to have a choice we might be robots in heaven. But that's not what earth is.

These are just my ideas to help answer your question. God bless you.

Hi Rob,

I'm wondering what your motive is for coming to a Bible website and accusing Christians who believe the trinity of being under a "curse"- something that most Christians believe in. Is that how you lovingly are looking to exchange information about the Bible to edify each other or are just looking to start a quarrel and do the opposite? Romans 14:19, Ephesians 4:32, Ephesians 4:29.

The reason people believe that God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit (Ghost) are one is that it literally says that in the Bible in 1 John 5:7 and elsewhere: Link

Do you think this is a salvation issue where someone may go to hell for believing the Bible verses such as 1 John 5:7 or why else are you so strong to condemn Bible believing Christians? What if someone accused you of what you're accusing others- that you yourself are spreading a "heinous doctrine" and are under a "curse," how would that make you feel and would it be true?

Questions: "What happens at the end times? The end times is the final events of world history as we know it and is foretold by prophecy.

The end times is the final events of world history as we know it, punctuated by the rapture - tribulation - Battle of Armageddon - Christ returning - Satan being put into the pit - the 1,000 year millennium - Satan's release - Satan's final defeat - and mankind's final judgment, as expanded below. While many believe that these end time events are about to start, the truth is, we can only guess.

For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits [from the cross]; then, when he comes [the rapture], those who belong to him. Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power [after the 1,000 year millennium] ( 1 Cor. 15: 22-24).

The Rapture

The word "Rapture" does not appear in the Bible but is used by Christians to describe an end time event. Rapture comes from the Latin word raptus which means "seize," "snatch" or "take away." It refers to those who obey and follow Jesus being taken up to meet Christ in the air.

This is the first rapture. The time when all the saints through out history will rise to receive new eternal bodies combined with their souls.

For the Lord himself, with a cry of command, with the archangel's call and with the sound of God's trumpet, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air; and so we will be with the Lord forever ( 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17).

The exact details of the rapture remain a mystery; however, we know that we will be physically resurrected at the Rapture ( John 5:29; Acts 24:15; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18).

There's much more info at this website you can visit also. 'GetBibleAnswers dot org'. It's a lot to process.

M

Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7

Isaiah 6:8

Romans 1:20

Colossians 2:9

Acts 17:27-30

1 John 5:7

John 10:30

There are only 10 scriptures proving it:

Mishael

1 John 5:6-8

6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Jesus Christ is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

1 John 5:7 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Isaiah 9:6

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

John 1:1-18

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

1 John 5:6-8

6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

John 14:9-12

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

2 Timothy 2:22-26

Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

23

But foolish and unlearned questions AVOID, knowing that they do gender (cause) STRIFES.

24

And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

25

In meekness instructing those that OPPOSE themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

26

And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the DEVIL, who are taken captive by him at his will.

2 Timothy 3:5

Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

2 Timothy 4:3-4

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

I STRONGLY SUGGEST WE DO NOT ARGUE ABOUT THE GODHEAD

Genesis 1:1, 1:26, 3:22, 11:7

Isaiah 6:8

Romans 1:20

Colossians 2:9

Acts 17:27-30

1 John 5:7

John 10:30

There is only 10 scriptures Proving it.

Mishael