Discuss John 6 Page 9

Dear "Daniel".

In peace. God does not take back gifts He has given first! Turn from that path right away in Jesus' Holy Name. In Him there is no changing shadow, or no change at all. Who is changing? We do! Beloved and gracious brethren of the Kingdom of heaven.

When you now see this, you read the Word of God that frees you from this you are struggling with. Jesus says: He is the Way of Truth and Life.

John 14: 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

He also says: John 6:37 All that the Father has given me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Bring back the gift of grace that He has given you. Confess your sins and return to God and the Lord Jesus in the Kingdom of the Holy Spirit. Believe in Jesus Christ my friend. I love u in Christ and pray.

Apologies Billy. I read your comment to Adam in a different way.

You're correct, Jesus' Name is not seen there in John 1:1-14, but who then is John the Apostle writing about? I can't think of anyone else that fits that description. John wrote about the Word of God: that which was with God & God Himself (v1). This Word was involved in creation (vv3,10) - notice John begins to use a pronoun (He, Him) describing this Word. In this Word was both Life & Light (v4). When John the Baptist arrived on the scene, he bore witness of that Light (v7). That Word Who was with God & was God, was made a man & lived the life of a man (v14). That Word came to His Own people but they rejected Him (v11), but those who received Him were made sons of God (v12). These are not separate accounts; this whole passage is consistent in its subject matter & implications.

This passage of Scripture is talking about God's Word. It's not about Apostle John or John the Baptist, or anyone else. The only Person Who could fit the bill is God's Word, Jesus Christ: He is the only One Who could be the giver of Life & Light & be the Creator of all things (also Colossians 1:15-17). He is the Only One Who could ask His Father ( John 17:5: "O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I HAD WITH thee before the world was."). He is the only One Who could state ( John 6:38: "For I CAME DOWN from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me."). And He is the only One Who could tell the Jews ( John 8:58: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS, I AM.").

I always wonder how folk consider these verses that I've shared here. I'm sure Jesus is not lying to us by saying those things. Do people read those verses as I do or in some other way that I'm missing? Or, should we determine that since the incarnation is 'impossible', therefore all these Scriptures are meaningless? Even if Christ's Deity is hard to understand, we can't simply reject it.

Hello Joseph. That is a great verse couplet ( Mark 12:29,30), which needed no explanation from Jesus, as every Jew had that those words indelibly etched in their minds. This is what they refer to as the "Shema", which means 'Hear' in Hebrew. What Jesus did add, was verse 31, "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these." And to this declaration, the Scribe/Lawyer clearly affirmed Jesus' Words, to which Jesus perceived that the man was "not far from the kingdom of God". Muslims also have a common declaration which is always repeated, known as the Shahada, but it doesn't bear repeating here because of its content.

However, I don't believe that Jesus was inferring the Trinity, or His Deity, by quoting the Shema. Jesus somewhat veiled this aspect of His Divinity, though never denying any outburst from the religious leaders for His 'blasphemous claims' (e.g. Matthew 26:59-65; John 10:30-38). I think that when certain spiritual eyes were opened, they were able to know from the Words of Jesus & the demonstration of His Life & Works, that this was no ordinary Man, however blessed He might be from God. This was One they had never encountered before: might they be standing before, seeing & listening to God Himself, now come to them in human form to bring light & hope to their darkened souls? When we read the Gospels, we see clearly this conflict amongst many who came before Him; many hated Him & wanted to dispose of Him - others realized the Messiah of God had come for their sakes & they'd better pay attention to Him.

And even though the word 'trinity' is nowhere to be found in the Scriptures, all the references to that point to Jesus' presence with God & part of the Godhead ( John 3:13; John 6:38; Colossians 2:9; John 1:1-14; John 10:30; Colossians 1:15-17; & many more), give us undeniable proof of Him & His Words. Only the Christ from God could fully pay the price for our sins, securing our redemption.

No one can come to the Father unless He draws Him first ( John 6:44). His sheep hear His voice ( John 10:27). I recommend that you read this book in particular to understand election. The god of this world has blinded the minds of men who don't believe ( 2 Cor. 4:4). Parables were hidden from the Pharisees; and only the Holy Spirit could reveal that Jesus was the Son of God ( Matthew 16:17). Once again the Father was the one who did the revealing.

The only unforgiveable sin was blasphemy of the Holy Spirit ( Matthew 12:31-32). This related to people seeing Christ's miracles and attributing them to Beezlebub (or Satan). Most people would when they saw His miracles think that he was a prophet; or good man as Peter indicated the general response was earlier when Christ asked who men thought He was. This is much like looking at the Sermon on the Mount and all those who Christ declared blessed and thinking somehow a person could be virtuous by doing a bunch of good works alone. Many are called; few are chosen ( Matthew 22:14). Satan of course will do many signs and wonders in Revelation 13 through the false prophet to draw men to worship the Antichrist. There are many evil spirits that are deceiving men today. When Christ did miracles; he would ask people at times to go back to the leaders to confirm the healing was genuine and be officially declared "clean".

Jesus asked the Pharisees which was harder; forgiving sins or healing ( Matthew 9:5). Jesus indeed did healings without preaching salvation many times; but he would say go and sin no more lest something worse happens to you to a man paralyzed most of his life ( John 5:14). This can be seen also with the woman about to be stoned ( John 8:11). In this; we can see that the Presence of the Holy Spirit Christ draws all men (that He has called and chosen) to Himself.

This is also true in Acts; the Apostles didn't beg to get more converts; people said what must I do to be saved ( Acts 16:30).

The sons of Korah had a dark history when the earth swallowed those directly involved in the rebellion in Numbers 16 where 250 were swallowed up by the earth and apparently went to hades immediately and while still alive. There could certainly be a recognition of the fate by the author who apparently at the very least was sympathetic to what happened. In regard to the text; where he says he is in the lower parts of the earth (v.6); and the hopelessness personally expressed here as in no other section of scripture it is certainly conceivable that he had a real revelation of hell. Such torments as listed in the Parable of Lazarus and the rich man

(starting in Luke 16:20) illustrate an account of an individual still in hell today from real life who is the nameless rich man. Such is the situation of the lost after death and this chapter should be enough to scare someone straight to repentance realizing there is no hope apart from Christ. Sadly; though when the rich man sought for someone to be raised from the dead he was told by Abraham that they would not listen; and the implication is that even those who see many not believe-as is evidenced by the rebellious Jews in the Book of Acts.

For the heart to respond it must be changed from the stony heart to one of flesh ( Ezekiel 11:19). It must be something which God grants to His elect; no man comes to Christ unless the Father draws Him first ( John 6:44). May He grant that to some today.

I have taken that to be wisdom especially when we think to highly of someone & they fall into sin. Putting too much trust in man, woman, their position or title, for example. This was advice maybe through experience.

Proverbs 6:30, Proverbs 6:23-26,

Hopefully these scriptures are also helpful in reference

Genesis 25:34, Hebrews 12:16, 1Samuel 25:10-38,

It is also commanded

Leviticus 19:15, Proverbs 24:23, James 1:1-10, Colossians 3:25, Ephesians 6:9, Job 32:21, 2 Chronicles 19:7, Deuteronomy 16:19,

Example Luke 20:21, Matthew 22:16, even when trying to trap Jesus they testified that HE wasn't a "respecter of persons"

Jesus was tested by this Luke 4:2-4,

Is it also coincidence that it was a piece of bread that was given before betrayal by Jesus? John 13:18,21-27, John 6:33,

John 6:1-29 ,

John 6:23-24, they took ships

I like to read each account of a given biblical account especially when deeply searching truth or studying details. The search box on this site is helpful for that.

Hopefully this is helpful

I'd like to add to what Chris stated. I am not Catholic nor Roman Catholic, however I took communion with my aunt & former boss (a high ranking political figure). After several times in attending & participating in two different states, whenever I had to accompany my former boss on Sundays, or visiting my Aunt Holidays or Sundays, maybe multiple years. All of a sudden, I was no longer allowed to participate, in either state because I "wasn't Catholic" that seems very wrong on multiple levels. Here's additional scripture:

1st: we're told to exam ourselves, before Communion, not other's to allow or disallow. 1 Corinthians 11:28-31, Roman 14:1-4,

2nd: we are told to confess our sins to one another: James 5:16-17,

3rd: John 6:37,

4th: Matthew 23:9-10,

5th: 1 Timothy 4:1-6, "doctrines of devils" forbidding marriage?

However the Catholic church is well-known for hospitals, ministry to needy 1 John 1:25-27, Matthew 25:31-46,

& we're called to love one another: John 13:35,

Hopefully these are also helpful.

Alex. Your two comments are long & would require a lot of unnecessary space to deal with each point. But to take up one of those points: "4 Times in johns Gospel he Jesus said he wd raise them up the last day . How cd he do that unless it was by his spirit that is poured out on everybody THE LAST DAY WHICH IS THE DAY WE ARE IN NOW."

This belief of yours, I would say, is typical of how you interpret Scripture. In John's Gospel, this phrase appears in John 6:39,40,44,54 (I believe these are the verses you refer to). You've obviously read them but since you want to believe that all will be raised to live forever with the Lord (in that coming day), that these verses apply to everyone. But did you not read also: "all which he hath GIVEN ME I should lose nothing"; "that every one which seeth the Son, and BELIEVETH ON HIM"; "the Father which hath sent me DRAW HIM"; "WHOSO EATETH MY FLESH, AND DRINKETH MY BLOOD". What is the thought in those portions? Are you unable to see the common thread running through the verses, that Jesus was speaking about those who are found IN CHRIST (those GIVEN, those who BELIEVE, those being DRAWN by God, those who partake in the merits of Christ's Sacrifice). None of these Truths can ever be applied to the sinful, unbelieving, ungodly of this world nor of the world to come.

As far as I can recall, you never speak of having faith when coming to Christ & to be justified by God ( Ephesians 2:8: God's grace plus our faith = salvation). I wonder why that is. Maybe, it would negate your belief that all people will eventually be saved, because faith in Christ's redemptive work can only apply now, or else it's no longer 'faith'. Also, you don't write about Satan & his evil spirits also getting redeemed & enjoying holiness of life - after all you will quote verses such as Revelation 5:13 which should support your belief. Alex, please read & understand the Scriptures as given ("rightly dividing the Word"), & not try to re-write the Holy Bible.

John 11:55, Mark 14:12, John 6:4, Luke 22:1,

John 12:1,12,13, John 13:1-2,

Matthew 27:15,

1st Sabbath being the Passover feast.

Exodus 12,

2nd Sabbath Matthew 28:1,

Psalms 81:3, also significant Mark 15:33, total solar Eclipse, New moon?

We should be careful not to follow after traditions set up by men, but Study to understand. Colossians 2:8, Matthew 15:3, Mark 7:9

Why would Jesus rebuke them over tradition? Because even today it causes doubt, & confusion amongst the church.

Hopefully these scriptures are helpful. GOD's WORD is truth.

Tradition is not 100% reliable.

Oh dear Georganna.

I am so sorry that you are having such troubles that are causing you to think that believing and praying to God is futile for you. I will be praying for you.

I would like to share one Scripture that the Holy Spirit "shouted" into my heart when I was burdened down with many griefs and thought about "throwing in the towel."

John 6:66-68

From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. Then Jesus said to the twelve, "Do you also want to go away?"

But Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go" You have the words of eternal life. Also we have come to believe and know that you are the Christ, the Son of the Living God."

So, when I was at my low point and exhausted from my struggles, the Spirit spoke to me what Peter said to Jesus.

I hope that the you will come to what I realized in that moment, that the only sure hope anyone has in this life is Jesus. No matter what happens to me, Jesus is my secure prize. This life isn't all there is, eternity awaits me and all will be made right and I will understand the purpose for all my troubles. For now, I will just walk each day in Jesus shadow, holding on to His garment with faith that nothing is impossible for Him to do for me and those I love.

I hope this encourages you.

Dear Lord Jesus,

Send you comfort and peace to Georganna as she cries out to you for help. You say you draw near to the brokenhearted. Let her know you are so very near to her. Lord, I pray that YOU will solve her problems since they are too big for her to do what needs to be done. Fill her with Your hope and assurance of Your love and moment by moment care. Send help right away, Lord and defeat that which is overwhelming her today. I ask this in faith in You, Jesus, in Your precious, holy name. Amen

Possibly because it would be a moment of extreme weakness. Matthew 4:2, Luke 4:2, Hebrews 4:15,

John 10:10,

This was also a moment of Prophetic fulfillment. Luke 4:4, Deuteronomy 8:3, John 6:58,

Deuteronomy 6:16, Matthew 4:7, Luke 4:12, Luke 4:10-11, Psalms 91:12, Matthew 4:6,

Exodus 34:28,

Matthew 4:1-11, Luke 4:1-21, 22-44,

Hopefully that helps

Cowboy:

If you are in the First RESURRECTION you will NEVER see death, death has been destroyed.

Luke 20:36 Neither can they DIE anymore........being the children of resurrection.

John 6:50 .... that a man may eat thereof, and NOT DIE.

John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me SHALL NEVER DIE ....

Matthew 16:28 There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death .....

John 8:51 .....if a man keep my sayings, he shall never see death.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and Holy is he that hath part in the FIRST RESURRECTION....and shall reign with Christ a thousand years.

Hey GIGI,

I am with you, we may not ever know when Jesus was born, Earl is close on the month, but the only thing Jesus said to do in remembrance of Him was at the last super, Luke 22:19. Scripture does let us know when Jesus came, the year He was baptized. Luke 3:1-6 when John the Baptist came. Tiberius Caesar was emperor from 14-37 A.D. Pontius Pilate ruled from 26-36 A.D. so the fifteenth year of Tiberius would have been 29 A.D. start of John the Baptist ministry.

This may have been in the late summer or early fall, Jesus came up from Galilee to Jordan to be baptized and the Spirit of God descending upon him, Matt. 3:13-17 Mark 1:911 Luke 3:21-22. Then Jesus went into the wilderness for forty days, tempted by Satan, then collecting the twelve.

In John 2, Jesus was in Cana of Galilee at the wedding and after in John 2:13, the Passover was at hand. This would place it just before spring of 30 A.D. There are four Passovers recorded in John, John 2:13 John 5:1 John 6:4 John 19:14, Jesus was crucified on the fourth. John 6:4 is in question if it was a Passover, or another required feast. May this help.

God bless,

RLW

Patricia,

All glory to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Thank you for your explanation as it helped me to finally understand the verse(s). Thank you very much for taking the time to explain...to me it's a super-important learning curve. Great explanation. Thanks again.

Brother Spencer, thank you. may the Lord continue to bless you also!

Thanks Earl. The Lord is good!

Thanks David. Yes, it is sort of amusing. And these were religious leaders!

Amen and Amen, Brother Jesse!

Great reply Brother Jesse.

God bless you and all you do.

Hi Edna This is an indication of how far out Israel or Judean beliefs got away from the scripture and how blinded the adversary had them, many times we read in the gospels it is written by the prophets or Jesus Christ himself. Now the scribes and pharisees and sadducees new the scripture but used to there advantage corrupt.

Hi Jesse It always amuses me that they still didn't get it, but then I ask would I have. By the way good stuff!

Edna, here is (Part 2)

John chapter 6 is all a picture from God of symbolism, or metaphorical use if you will, about the salvation message. It is not just about believing that Jesus died for you, and shed His blood for you, but you must take Him in, spiritually. You must feed on Christ spiritually. He is the bread of life!

How we chase after things in the human, we think "Oh I am missing out in life because I don't have these things?" Do you have Christ? Oh yeah. Then we are pursuing the things in the flesh, because in the spirit, we will never hunger and never thirst because we are fellowshipping with and feeding on the bread of life constantly.

So Jesus is presenting Himself as that Lamb, Jewish symbolism! It is not something that you just believe about. It is someone that you take in. So He says no more physical miracles of feeding you with physical food.

Now it's all spiritual. Now you must be satisfied with me. I am the bread of life, not the physical bread, but the spiritual bread. And from now on you must feed on me and if you feed on me you will live.

Verse 63 is key. It says "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."

The word quickeneth means make alive. It is the spirit that makes alive, the flesh profits nothing: Did you catch that? There is no spiritual benefit in the flesh. Zero! The words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

They are not physical. It is spirit. It is not physical life, it is spiritual life. So He says everything that I just told you about my flesh, and my blood, take that and change it into spiritual metaphors and you'll have what it means.

I hope what I've shared helps.

Hello Edna,

Something to keep in mind is that it wasn't the miracles they came to see. They came because their bellies were being fed and they wanted more. In John 6:48, Jesus calls Himself the bread of life. But go back to verse 31. They say to Jesus "Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat." You see, they wanted more physical food.

Then in Verse 49, Jesus says "Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead." So do you want to bring in the manna gift thing again? God provided physical food for them but they are dead!" In verse 50, Jesus says "This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die." Jesus is not referring to His physical body. He's speaking about spiritual nourishment.

But the Jews are really perplexed by this. In fact, that's the reason and the teaching why multitudes of these people left. Remember, these are the 15,000 to 20,000 people that were fed the day before. And now they are listening and they think He's talking about cannibalism.

What does He mean? He goes on to explain it to the disciples, but He doesn't explain it to the public. His words are spirit and they are life. It is not flesh. When He says "Eat of my flesh and drink of my blood," we have to think about it from a Jewish perspective.

Remember when Jesus was introduced to Israel, He was introduced as the Lamb of God who would take away the sin of the world? In the book of Exodus, it wasn't just the blood over the door posts that saved a household from the Angel of death, in order for the Angel of death to Passover. Yes, there had to be blood on the door posts. But one of the requirements was that the lamb from whom the blood came, you had to eat that lamb, and eat every bit of it that night, nothing left over. You had to actually participate with the lamb whose blood is on your door post.

I'm running out of space and will have to send a part 2.

Hi Edna It's amazing to me that 12 stuck around of course God knew, this guy spoke and did more miraculous things in a day then perhaps we'll see in a lifetime, they didn't know it was figurative that's why some left because they thought he lost it. But as peter said thou hast taught us the words of life and all Jesus Christ actions and works were life giving just like His Father's. At that time he was talking about the future holy communion, and after they were born again they understood.

Why were the disciples offended to the point of abandoning Jesus when he said "eat my flesh and drink my blood" ,if it was only a symbol? When Jesus says it again he says it more strongly not less. He doesn't say it's a symbol. He says "Eat/gnaw on my flesh". Seems like the Jews/disciples were completely grossed out and scandalized and though they had seen all Jesus's miracles ,chose to abandon him.

Dear Sister Sacha,

Thanks. I agree, as we grow we find that we crave more food - meat and drink as you put it:)

I feel so blessed to be on this site with so much meat and drink to share!

John 6:54

"Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day."

May God always light your path!

Sister GiGi:

If there's not HIDDEN meaning in God's word, but totally literal so all can understand, then whats the meaning of:

John 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If you were blind, you should have not sin: but since you say. We see, therefore your sin remaineth.

Do physically blind people literally have no sin.

The TRUTH is HIDDEN and the Spirit has to tell you the meaning.

John 6:63 ....my words are spirit....

I takes the SPIRIT to understand the meaning.

1 Corinthians 2:14 ....because they are spiritually discerned.

In John 6:40, 44, Jesus says twice, 'I will raise him up at the last day.'

Many Christians believe that when they pass away they will go to heaven. But Jesus spoke about our being prepared, because He didn't know when the last day would be. And here He speaks, 'I will .. at the last day'.

Myself, believing in the power of context, and mans obsessive ability to twist Scripture to fit what he wants to believe; it has me stumped.

I've spoken with several, who believe Scripture, but it's out of context to the Word. What is either before or after what they believe is God's Word, for them, is not what is said, in context.

Satan's mastery of my Father's Word, and his ability to twist everything to our liking is stoopifying. And guiding a Christian, to maybe look at it again, only brings his wrath, which is so far out of line with the Bible, a 'tilted-head, What?', becomes an automatic response.

Do not be misled, He says.

So, which which is which?

Dead and prepared? Or, dead and gone?