Discuss John 8 Page 7

Hello Richard. Not sure whether your comment is in reference to some one else's, so I apologize, but your reference to the woman caught in adultery ( John 8:3-11) piqued my interest.

We know that Jesus didn't condemn the woman for her act, rather told her to desist from engaging in such encounters, and John 12:47b tells us "for I (Jesus) came not to judge the world, but to save the world", indicating that His Ministry wasn't of judgement but for souls' salvation; so it was correct that in line with His Coming, that Mercy & Forgiveness be shown & through it, sinners might see their own sin first, before casting their stones.

But I also see another side to this, as part of the given Law, which I've never heard spoken of. The Law of God was clear & binding and the religious leaders knew it. Yet, at that time in Israel, that Law couldn't be enacted or enforced, as their was no king or judge in Israel authorized to do so. I guess the religious leaders took it upon themselves to fill that void, as they also had much sway in the domestic & religious lives of the Jews. But were they legitimate in meting out the death penalty (or, any punishment), for sins/crimes committed? They could certainly see & acknowledge the wrongs done in society, but did they have the power to exact a penalty such as this? Or, would they be limited to committing the woman to a time of separation, of introspection, repentance, & then restoration? Maybe, as a pastor/elder would do in the Church today?

So, I detect that Jesus, in His ministry to both the woman & the leaders, was also showing to them, that such judgement rested only with God and to those He had authorized to exact it; that these religious leaders ought to confine themselves to matters of the synagogue & guidance to the Law's requirements, rather than taking on the role of judges. And after all, the Romans were their rulers/judges at that time, though generally uninterested in these Jewish 'strange' practises. Just a thought.

We thank you dear Jesus for being our only true God. And thank You for the wisdom You share with You. So that there are well-meaning words that we speak out to ours. So they can also be free in You, my Lord. Thank You Jesus for all things. In Your holy name Jesus Christ, We honor you, Lord of wisdom. After Your will Amen.

John 8:31-36

Hey Giannis,

Hope you don't mind, I read your posts. I do not know if you read my post to Gary in this thread, but you commented on the Greek words in the, (my understanding a parable) Luke 16. And you spoke on Matt. 27:51-52. My understanding of this comes from what John wrote of what Jesus said.

In John 8 they were pressing Jesus who He was, and He said this in vs. 28 he does nothing of Himself, but He said when you have lifted up the Son of Man then you will know I am He. Then In John 5:25-29 Jesus said the hour is coming and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God and they shall live. Now is not later Jesus is saying now which He is talking about what is written in Matt. 27.

In vs 28 Jesus said marvel not at this for the hour is coming in which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice, (but He did not say and now is). This goes to your comment on the final resurrection, but I will not comment on that now.

In Matthew 27 Jesus had been hanging on that cross since 9 AM going on 6 hours, and I am sure He was going in and out of consciousness and when Jesus cried out for the last time, He may have come to which in my understanding refers to the word resurrection used in vs 53. You will know the Greek better than me, but it is a different word than the other words used for resurrection. it is egersis, meaning resurgence not necessarily from death.

But my understanding is when Jesus cried out all these things happened, the veil of the temple rent, earthquake, the rocks rent, and the graves were opened, many bodies of the saints which slept arose and went into the city and appeared to many. As you said like Lazarus.

To me vs 54 confirms what Jesus said in John 8:28 truly this was the Son of God. Many knew they just killed the Son of God. "Then shall ye know that I am He"

God bless,

RLW

Human nature has not changed even today after reading this chapter. Sad to see people here be like a modern Pharisees. Read your Bible. Many are deceived. Stay in prayers and Colossians 2:1:23 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Predestination and John 8

The first 12 verses describe a woman caught in adultery. The fact that the man wasn't brought as well was suspect. Jesus gave instructions for the man without sin to throw the first stone; and when He remained mercy triumphed over judgment. It should be noted; however that in verse 11 she was told to "go and sin no more". In verse 12; Jesus appeals to the fact that He is the light of the world.

Then; when disputing with the Pharisees and giving what seemed like a clear message of salvation and how He was connected with the Father; verse 27 shows that they really didn't know what He was referring to. Verses 31-32 describes what is often called "Perseverance of the saints". It makes clear that to produce good fruit; we must remain in Him; which of course is only possible for those sealed with the Spirit ( Eph. 1:13-14).

In verse 33; another lie is told; as we see elsewhere in John that they were never slaves. Then; continuing to verse 38; Jesus reveals whose father they have. They are thinking about physical ancestry; Jesus is talking about spiritual authority; and spells iit out continuing to verse 48. The situation deteriorates further when Jesus is accused of having a demon (v. 48; following v.52-53; then Jesus gives a clear statement that He is the "I am" or God Himself; and the last first shows yet another attempt to stone Him where He escapes. (See John 1:11 to summarize this book). They are spiritually blind; but held accountable having physical vision (see John 9:41; Isaiah 43:8)

The medical term is called " hematohidrosis " extreme levels of stress, can cause it. " There are multiple blood veins netted around the sweat glands, in net formation, that constrict under the pressure of great stress" "fear and intense mental contemplation are the most frequent causes" recorded under National Library of Medicine, .gov

It can & did occur. Luke 22:44, "sweat as it were great drops of blood"

Let's look into Jesus' stress._._ he had known people were plotting to kill him, Matthew 17:22-23, Matthew 21:38, Mark 9:31, Luke 20:14, Luke 22:2, Jesus knew it was the religious hypocrites that were plotting instead of teaching the sheep (his beloved sheep) John 8:37, John 7:1,19,20 even calling him opposite of Christ, John 10:19,20,

Mark 10:34, here: Jesus even knew how & explained it. Isaiah 52, Psalms 22,

He knew he would be on public display, clothing taken from him, they would gamble for them: Psalms 22:18,19

Jesus knew he was being betrayed & even said go quickly, John 13:27,

Jesus knew the followers would scatter, anyone who loves those who depend on them in anyway never wishes to leave them, especially unprepared, afraid, in danger, alone, being pursued, John 17, John 10:11,12, Luke 12:4, Matthew 24:9,

Those are only some of the details. Extreme stress none of us have faced to that level. Hebrews 4:15,

Hopefully these are helpful to your discussion/ debate / controversy. 2Timothy 3:16,

The Truth Will Set You Free

John 8:31-41

31. The said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples;

32. And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

33. They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

34. Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

35. And the servant abideth not in the house forever: but the Son abideth ever.

36. If the Son therefore shall make you free indeed.

37. I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

38. I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.

39. They answered and said unto Him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the work of Abraham.

40. But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

41. Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to Him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

Fred,

Amen! Begotten meaning the only unique one from the Father. And John 8:38 is a great verse that you shared. Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. Literally, "Before Abraham was in existence, I AM in existence!" Before Abraham was in existence, I was already in existence, and always had been. The "I AM" of the Old Testament!

Thank you!

John 1: Predestination

The beginning of John; much like Romans 1 indicates the Creation of God. However; the true light (God or Christ Himself) is NOT known in man's darkened; sinful state despite the evidences seen externally (v. 4-5). Verses 9 through 11 discuss Christ coming; not being known by His creation OR His chosen people. Verse 13 gives the first of a myriad of indications of God's election of who is saved; as it is not ultimately determined by the will of man. The rest of the chapter shows how Christ was supernaturally revealed to John the Baptist; and how He began to choose the 12 apostles who would someday judge the 12 tribes of Israel ( Matt. 19:28; also Rev. 4:10 showing O.T. descendants of Jacob as other 12 most likely).

John 2: This chapter illustrates how Christ would only be understood by those who are His own; even if it doesn't state anything directly. There were certain things to be revealed in its time; hence the miracle of the water to wine was perhaps a sort of local affair; and we see that there is no salvation message here; or any healings as is seen after He officially started His ministry after being tempted by the Devil for 40 days. ( Luke 4:2; Mark 1:12). This is NOT mentioned in John. A rare event when the disciples actually knew Christ was fulfilling prophecy without rather torturous explanations on His part was in verse 17 when they understood the prophecy of the zeal of His house. Verse 19 is the first of many verses hiding a meaning from the Pharisees as to what the Temple would be that was destroyed and would rise in 3 days (His body). The disciples wouldn't get it until after the Resurrection. This shows that Christ had to reveal Himself as God in the flesh only to those God chose to do so ( Matthew 16:17). We need also to see how ALL of Christ's ministry was an example of following God's plan; and speaking only His words as is seen in John 8:38 and other passages. He expounds on hidden truths to His own.

Adam,

part 2

The word Elohim is plural, but the verb created is singular and if to support the triune God it should read Gods and there are not three Gods. That would be for another topic.

John 8:58 I am, I exist or existed before Abraham. Exodus 3:14 I AM THAT I AM if I remember, I will be what I will be, it is also close to God's name YHWH. I don't see tying these two together.

From our conversation which I have enjoyed, I do not see an agreement. The one thing about this doctrine, statement of faith whatever you call it I feel is wrong it has been placed above salvation that is in Jesus Christ only. If one does not believe it, it is heresy, you may feel it is. I have been told in more than one church. I hear the word used on this site. And there is not one scripture that says it, nor was it taught by any of the apostles.

In my opinion, it has been made law and it is like Acts 15 You must be circumcised to be saved. Jesus is the only begotten son of God, and God the Father has placed Him above all, and Jesus will reign until all enemies are put under His feet.

God the Father has turned all control to His Son that is what we see in Rev. 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. Which is all-powerful, supreme, absolute, unlimited, invincible, until He turns it back over to the Father, Cor.15:25-28 Rev. 20:14

I honor the Son for what He gave up, lived in this flesh, what He suffered, and the blood He shed, was nailed to that cross. He was put in a tomb and three days later God the Father raised Him from the dead giving us the only chance of salvation and eternal life and nothing can be placed above that.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

God bless,

RLW

Yes Fred, There's a battle going on that has already been decided.

There's a powerful evil force in the world and then There's The Lord of TRUTH. Truth is being attacked by those who CANNOT hear the truth.

John 8:40-47. But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

WHY DO YE NOT UNDERSTAND MY SPEECH? EVEN BECAUSE YE CANNOT HEAR MY WORD.

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

CONCLUSION.

This is said about one group. WHY DO YE NOT UNDERSTAND MY SPEECH? EVEN BECAUSE YE CANNOT HEAR MY WORD.

This is said about the other group. John 10:27-28. MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE, AND I KNOW THEM, and they follow me:

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Hi Ronald,

I'm not able to follow your thought process on all your points, but some. I think most of your points fall within the same logic/belief that Jesus prayed and referred to the Father as "God" and even prayed to "God" therefore how can Jesus be God and pray to Himself? Am I understanding your position accurately? If so, I think most of your "If Jesus is God..." arguments seem to fall within this one overall assumption.

The thing missing from this assumption is that Jesus is not in His normal state. He became a man to go to earth to live as us and to die for our sins. John 1. Yes, Jesus prayed to God the Father. I believe He limited His power to a degree to live on Earth like us. I think He could have exercised His power, but chose not to. Example: Matthew 26:53.

Philippians 2:6 - this says Jesus is equal to God. Verse 7-8 says he humbled Himself as a servant as a man. v9-11 then Jesus was exalted, that every knee will bow and confess Jesus is Lord, name above all other names.

If you believe the Bible when it says that says Jesus created all things ( John 1:3 ), is equal to God ( phil 2:6), is one with God ( John 10:30), is God ( John 1:1), has a name above all other names ( Phil 2:9-11), should be baptized in His name ( Matthew 28:19) then is it such a stretch to believe that's true?

Simply believing what the Bible says is not a 'doctrine' as some claim, but those believing things the Bible doesn't say is definitely a human doctrine.

I get that people have a hard time comprehending that God is plural and how exactly that words out. We will find out in the end. But just because people don't understand 1 John 5:7 doesn't mean it's not true. Truth is true regardless of whether people choose to believe it or not.

John 8:58 - What do you think Jesus meant when he said "I am"?

Exodus 3:14 - What do you think of God saying "I am"?

John 5:23 - strong warning to anyone who dishonors Jesus.

God bless.

John 1:1

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Who is the Word?

John 1:14-15 says the Word is Jesus. Does anyone deny that the Word is Jesus?

If someone believes John 1:14, then do they believe John 1:1

"...the Word was God."

"...[Jesus] was God."

JESUS.

WAS.

GOD.

John 1:1

This is God's Word.

Some here are saying "Jesus was NOT God" despite John 1:1 clearly saying Jesus WAS God. I'd like to know exactly how someone can believe in all other verses of the Bible except this one? If something WAS something, that seems to offer little room for interpretation. It means it's the same, does it not? So, if something WAS something, how does someone twist this into believing it says something WAS NOT something?

It then must be asked: since it takes so much effort to take a sentence something WAS something to turn it into: something WAS NOT something, what is the true underlying motive here? Does God's Word carry the most weight and influence or does something else?

This is eerily similar to Gen 3:4 where satan denied what God said and claimed that they shall NOT surely die. Satan loves opposites and this seems to have his signature, does it not?

I welcome any perspective I'm missing, but do not consider anything other Bible verses as valid evidence. God's Word is all that matters and because there's already numerous verses supporting that Jesus is God like John 1:1 then that is what is true. Lastly, why not just pray and ask God directly to know the truth? Genuinely ask!

1 John 5:7-8

John 10:30

John 8:19

Genesis 1:26

Genesis 11:6-7

(plural "us")

Philippians 2:5-8

2 Corinthians 5:19

John 1:3

Matthew 28:19

1 Peter 1:2

2 Corinthians 13:14

Deuteronomy 6:4

John 14:10

John 20:28

1 John 2:22-24

Matthew 1:23-25

Colossians 2:9

Acts 17:29

Romans 1:20

Isaiah 7:14

Hebrews 1:8

Isaiah 44:6

Isaiah 43:11

Hi Doug,

This is an interesting logical argument. I find that in 1 Peter 3:22. Let's assume for argument's sake that your conclusion is correct and you get 1 point for this.

But for every verse you cite, there are even more that say that Jesus IS God, like John 1:1 saying the "Word was God" and verse 14 that Jesus is the Word.

This could continue to play out and you can cite any number of verses to support your position, but again we don't run out of very compelling verses saying that Jesus is God.

Let's say that it's a dead even race. 30 verses suggesting Jesus isn't vs 30 verses suggesting He is.

Then what? Which do you choose to believe?

I don't know if you've gone through this exercise or not, but I now have a spoiler: someone will run out of verses supporting that Jesus "isn't" God long before the verses supporting He IS God. Not only that, but each of the verses commonly cited to claim that Jesus "isn't" God require some extra creative interpretation and human logic whereas the verses supporting the other side can be read and interpreted more literally. Not only that, but there's logical explanations for why Jesus called His Father God. The main reason is that He temporarily became a human being and limited His power. Phil 2:6-7. So, yes, as a man, He prayed to His Father and called Him God. So, all verses must be considered as a whole, not cherry picked in order to have understanding about the Godhead and I admit it is hard to comprehend as we don't have anything like it in on earth. But perhaps like an orange with seeds, pulp, skin. Someone calls pulp an orange, and it is.

1 John 5:7-8

John 10:30

John 8:19

Genesis 1:26

, Genesis 11:6-7 (plural "us")

Philippians 2:5-8

2 Corinthians 5:19

John 1:3

Matthew 28:19

1 Peter 1:2

2 Corinthians 13:14

Deuteronomy 6:4

John 14:10

John 20:28

1 John 2:22-24

Matthew 1:23-25

Colossians 2:9

Acts 17:29

Romans 1:20

Isaiah 7:14

Hebrews 1:8

Isaiah 44:6

Isaiah 43:11

THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD = JESUS

OLD TESTAMENT PROPHECY OF PROPET ISAIAH

SHEDDING OF BLOOD FOR REMISSION OF SINS

Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 43:10 - Ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I [am] he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:11 - I, [even] I, [am] the LORD; and beside me [there is] no saviour.

Isaiah 44:6 - Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I [am] the first, and I [am] the last; and beside me [there is] no God.

NEW TESTAMENT - OLD TESTAMENT PROPHECY FULFILLED

JESUS SHED BLOOD, DIED ON THE CROSS, RISEN FROM THE DEAD, ASCENDED INTO HEAVEN

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:2 - The same was in the beginning with God.

John 1:3 - All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

John 1:14 - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 8:58 - Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

John 10:30 - I and [my] Father are one.

John 14:6 - Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Colossians 1:15 - 22 - Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist

This topic of Jesus being God or fully God and fully man seems to be added wording to the scripture. Jesse's scripture I think gives the best explanation of the topic. If we consider the translation it is easier to understand. The reason he thought it not robbery to be equal to God is because he was in the form of God. The translation of form here is he carried the nature of God. He was found in the fashion (outward circumstance of a man). He as we have to access God's power to resist the devil. John 8:28 "I do nothing of myself". Luke 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man. Luke 2:40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him. Easy scriptures to pass over, but doesn't sound like he was fully God otherwise he wouldn't need the grace of God and wouldn't have to increase in wisdom. 1 Tim. 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Note: It doesn't say the God Christ Jesus.

Prophecy My problem with your comment is context John 8:44 was addressed to the religious leaders in JESUS time that

were spiritually rotten, also Jesus Christ walked in total fellowship with God job did not. So like I said I don't agree with

has been stated because it is out of context to subject matter. God Bless also not going any further.

Jason Since only God knows whats in a mans heart in genesis he knew cains , and look at cains actions and responses

he became extremely angry because of jealousy to the point of murder. Then look at his response when God ask wheres your

brother am I my brothers keeper like who cares no heart. Cain was the first absolutely what the bible calls in other places

a son of belial he became absolutely worthless for the true God and all his lineage over the ages same thing. Jude verse 11

and in context discribes these men who always defy and endeavor to interrupt the ways of the true God. Most of the

pharisees and other leaders at the time of christ were these men. In 1 KINGS 18:18-22 when elijah ordered the prophets

of baal another name for satan worship these men were all wicked men same deal worshipping the devil. They exist in our

day and time only they operate behind the scenes controlling world conditions backed up by satan. This is a brief overview

in answer to gen4:5 and 15, in John 8:38-44 Jesus Christ confronted some of these men directly and called them sons of the

devil spiritually.

Brother David:

Job is a PROPHECY of Christ.

Job 2:3 And the LORD (God the Father) said unto Satan ( John 8:44 and his children, all flesh and blood), Hast thou considered my servant Job (a metaphor for Christ) that there is none like him (Christ) in the earth, a perfect and upright man (Christ), one (Christ) that feareth God (the Father), and escheweth evil? and he (Christ) still holdest fast his integrity, although thou (Satan and his children, flesh and blood)) movest ME (God the Father) AGAINST HIM (Christ), to DESTROY HIM (Christ) WITHOUT A CAUSE.

Psalms 119:161 Princes ( 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 of this world, Children of Satan) have persecuted me (Christ) WITHOUT A CAUSE, but I (Christ) stand in awe of the (Father's) word.

John 15:25 But THIS (Christ death and resurrection) COMETH TO PASS, that the WORD might be FULFILLED that is written in their law, They hated me WITHOUT A CAUSE.

God Bless You.

Hi Suze, John 1:1 tells us that Jesus is God and other verses say He created all things.

Verses of Jesus accepting worship:

John 20:28

Matthew 28:8-9

Mark 16:1

Matthew 2:11

Matthew 21:9

John 12:13

We are also to obey Jesus:

John 8:31

John 14:15

John 14:21-24

John 15:10-14

1 John 2:3

Naseem,

May these verses help to shine some light for you to understand that Jesus is in fact God.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Here Jesus is speaking to the Apostle John in Revelation 22:13

"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."

There are three (3) entities in the Godhead. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Many people struggle with trying to understand this unique and very special relationship.

GB you

It seems you have scripture references that are adequate to explain Satan's authority along with God's rulership but I thought I would help to put the pieces together somewhat. When we look at the "bad fruit" that literally was offered to Adam and Eve in the garden; and the tares which result from those who remain enemies of God we see the results from man's original sin. We must always remember that Satan ( Isaiah 14; Ezekiel 28) fell from heaven and hence sin began with his rebellion. He was already given certain attributes and leadership capability through the origin of God's design during his creation. Ultimately; God's redemption plan was set from the beginning and would commence at man's fall. Since then; the misery of man's own fallen nature exacerbated by Satan's influence on the mind; emotions and souls of people would undoubtably reinforce their hopeless state to drive them to the cross; if called and chosen. Perhaps no one would come to Christ if suffering hadn't resulted from the fall.

Since Lucifer from his inception had musical skills inherent in his makeup; and undoubtably had a high position of authority and leadership in that realm; he was given for those who would seek for those who would seek worldly aspirations over God. The verse Matthew 6:5 shows those who "have their reward" in this life as a result of pride who no doubt are inspired by Satan's self made mindset in empty religious rituals.

Man has to acknowledge not just that they are sinners but they are following "their father the devil." ( John 8:44-45). We are all slaves to the god of this world ( 2 Cor. 4:4) prior to regeneration. The end times in Revelation merely bring to the visible realm and to the forefront what already has been happening to influence man since the fall.

Clearly the world governments; all religions apart from the true faith INCLUDING and especially those with false Christs are part of this godless kingdom.

We should study how we are part of the Body of Christ; and how we reflect His light through the Spirit. This is something like Christ who demonstrates all the attributes of the Father who no man has seen ( John 1:18).

It is necessary but painful here to come to a realization that these attributes only exist for those who are His children. It is VERY clear from such verses as Isaiah 66 that the wicked will indeed be seen by all in their judgment; so clearly the righteous will in their state as well. We see the Transfiguration indicating that Moses and Elijah were seen (although Elijah was translated). John 8:56 seems to indicate that Abraham was aware of when Christ came as well. To be absent from the Body is present with the Lord. ( 2 Cor. 5:6). The indication of our presence as Kings and Priests ( Rev. 5:10; etal) and the prayers of the saints before God seems to show an awareness among those in God's Presence and even about what is going on in the earth ( Rev. 5:8).

We see David also when his son died saying that he would go to him; but his son couldn't come to him ( 2 Sam. 12:23). This is another clear indication of eventual reunion with God's people.

What will be something to look forward to is that we will be without sin. Therefore; our relationships truly will be enhanced to a greater degree and not inhibited due to all the issues we have in this life. To truly understand this; we need to have a mindset of service toward Christ; and part of our reward is to see the results of those sacrifices in time and resources building one another up in the faith and supporting those evangelizing today to fulfill the Great Commission. We are all adopted children and part of that great cloud of witnesses ( Hebrews 12:1-2). We shall see Him as He is and be raised in incorruption ( 1 Cor. 15:42). What a glorious day that will be!

Agape.

Hi Rosalia , every day ,for about the last three months , I've been helping my elderly and ill parents with house work shopping etc . I myself have health problems , so every day I ask God , through the name of Jesus Christ my Saviour and High Priest , to give me the strength and energy that I need to get through the day and do the things that I need to do . I think Paul was asking for the same things that I do , smiley face .

I'd like to add, to the discussion: Philippians 4:13,

Please read: Philippians 4:11-12, Philippians 1:7, he's also talking about enduring even while bond in prison. Philippians 1:13,

But it was for the Gospel of Christ: Philippians 1:12-20,

Rosalia,

Paul says in Philippians 4:13, " I can do all things in Christ who is empowering me."



That's the literal translation.



The first line that says I can do all things, he says I have sufficient inherent strength already in me in Christ. I have sufficient inherent strength. The power of God lives in me.



I can do all things in Christ, not through, but in Christ. And then describing Christ: who is the one who is empowering me, showing that God's power is continuing to produce His power and strength in me.



I like that first line. I like how it says that I have sufficient inherent strength to do all things.



Paul said in 2 Corinthians Chapter 12 when he prayed about the thorn in his flesh, his health problem, that God would heal and take away, God said to him my grace is sufficient for you.



He doesn't have to take anything away. He doesn't have to change a thing. His grace is sufficient. And He is continually empowering me to do all things, to go hungry or to be full, to be made low or to abound.

What means philippians 4:13

John 8:3-12,

Jesus said "go and sin no more"

Galatians 5:19-25, 2Peter 2:9, 1Corinthians 6:8-11, Romans 6:16-23, Romans 8, Romans 13:9-14,

Hopefully these are all helpful

I believe it's a daily decision effort. Referring to "pick up your cross daily & follow" Jesus, "dying to self", being "born again " we have to go from a symbolic crawling to walking. Luke 9:23, Luke 14:27, Matthew 10:38, John 8:24,

Learn to :

Deuteronomy 17:19, Isaiah 1:17,

Even fruit, isn't automatic, it takes time to grow.

Pruning, is there habits that need to be cut off? Even if it starts growing back, to trim again.

Luke 17:33, John 8:34, Romans 6, Romans 7, Romans 8:2,

Hopefully these are helpful

In my opinion dear Robin, nobody can get rid of bad habits/passions/sins unless God frees him. i.e. just think of a guy who is a drug addict who believes in Jesus sometime in his life. How is he going to get freed from his passion? On his own? Is that possible? Of course not. Nomatter how hard he tries he will never succeed. He needs God's strentgh/grace to do that. The same happens with all habits/passions/sins.

Apostle Paul in Romans 8:13 makes a very significant statement.

"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live"

What does he mean with "deeds of body"? The answer is in Galatians 5:19-21

"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, AND SUCH LIKE: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God"

The above works of flesh/deeds of body are what we call bad habits/passions/sins. Is smoking or any other addiction mentioned? They are all included in "THE SUCH LIKE"

So what do you need to get freed? The answer is the Holly Spirit. It is sometimes impossible for men to "mortify the deeds of the body". This what God's Spirit does.

So go to the Lord and ask Him to free you, ask for His strength, His grace, His Spirit to work in/on you. But when you go to God you have to make sure that you really want to get freed, you have to be honest with the Lord, and sincere about it. Will God answer back? He will definitely do that. I have seen so many examples in my life, people that get freed from smoking, drugs, alcohol, adultery, fornification, gambling...anything that has enslaved them. So go to God.

And a verse especially for you:

John 8:36 "If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed."

GBU