Discuss Luke 12 Page 7

Hi Norman,

I think all Christians struggle with the temptations of sin. Paul wrote about his struggle: Romans 7:19

In my opinion there's a difference in a Christian genuinely trying to follow Jesus and occasionally messing up and getting a little off track...

VS.

A Christian who assumes he's saved, because grace, and now feel entitled to sin as much as he wants, because grace. He used to follow Jesus, but doesn't really think about it much anymore. He calls himself a 'good person' by his own standards. He enjoys the world, enjoys indulgences (sin) and rationalizes it as being OK. Then puts the world first pursuing fun, money, status, and following Jesus becomes a lower priority. He assumes he's going to heaven, because grace and his actions don't matter anymore and he's a 'good person'.

In my understanding, the Christian who knows he's a flawed sinner and desperately needs Jesus's grace and follows Jesus and tries to emulate Him and apply His teachings is on solid ground. The fact that someone cares and is thinking about it is a heathy sign: Luke 12:5. Sounds like you fit in this category. Remember Paul killed Christians and was forgiven, so no sin other than blasphemy is too great to be forgiven, if genuine repentance.

But the Christian who already assumes he's all good, and uses grace as a license to justify committing unlimited sin and following the world instead of Jesus, I believe is in danger.

Jesus warned His followers (Christians) over and over about heaven and hell through His parables, etc. That few people will go to heaven and most will go to hell.

Matthew 7:21

Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

James 2:14-26 "...faith, if it hath not works, is dead..."

James 2:19 "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

1 Peter 1:13

Romans 11

John 14:15

Matthew 12:31-32

Romans 14:12

1 Peter 1:5

Dear Jesse,

My point was that Jesus's words were and are for all, and your point is that they aren't. Then I ask you to backup this with scripture and you dodged and asked me that. Just so I understand, your argument is that not all of Jesus's words and message is for everyone, such as to Christians? If Jesus's mentions about blaphemy don't apply to Christians, then what else do you think doesn't apply to Christians? What process do you use to determine which of Jesus's words then apply to you?

Your other argument seems not based on scripture, but merely an emotional speculative one about you not feeling capable of certain sin. That's great if you feel protected, solid, and have your armor of God on at this time. Just because you personally don't feel you're capable of something at this point of time doesn't mean it's impossible for someone in general to falter. Anyone can be tempted by satan. Plenty of Christians have had affairs, lied, done drugs, coveted, even killed, followed the world, and have even backtracked and drifted away from Christ. It's a strange argument to claim to deny that Christians have freewill to sin, and have the freewill to commit horrible unspeakable acts, including blaphemy.

>I DO NOT believe I have any right to live a lifestyle of sin because I'm saved regardless. You are going to be very hard pressed to find someone who believes they can "commit unlimited sin, and enjoy sin, to live in the world, to love the world, and assume they have a get out of hell free card?"

It's hard to comprehend this as you appear to live in another world. Christians are rampantly involved in sin. It's absolutely sickening to see. I know a Christian right now who has premarital sex, watches porn, and does drugs and stopped going. According to you he can have total assurance of salvation with zero concern? What if he kills? What about blasphemes? No worries? If so why did Jesus say the opposite to Christians? Luke 12:5, 2 Corinthians 5:10, Hebrews 10:26

Kathy, you asked where in the Bible it says that salvation can be lost and someone was kind enough to respond and show you exactly where. Some of the questions were already answered on the reply.

I will go ahead and reply to your specific questions again in hope that this could be a genuine question.

>If salvation can be lost, by what means?

Luke 12:10 says blasphemy of the holy ghost is unforgiveable. That means if someone chooses to commit this sin, Christian or not, they will not be forgiven and will go to hell.

Hebrews 10:26

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,". This means if a Christian continues in unrepentant sin they are in danger of having no grace to save them.

>Those scriptures you gave are misquoted.

No, they are not misquoted. When you hover over them they show the 100% correct scriptures. When I referred to them I highlighted the portion of scripture being referred to by using elipses... For proper context one should read the whole chapter and book.

>Here you have my salvation but you practiced free will and sinned so I retract your salvation.??? Really?

Is this an emotional argument being presented against the Bible? You will have to take that up with God. Luke 12:10 is clear and there's not much room to interpret it any other way. I'd be quite surprised if Christians who have denounced the faith, turned their back on God, who hate God and have chosen to commit unlimited sin, are welcomed to spent eternity with God in heaven. Likewise, what Jesus said in John 14:15 is clear. If someone doesn't obey, that means they don't love Jesus. Do you expect ho doesn't love Jesus go to heaven?

I've also heard an illogical argument claiming that real Christians can't or won't deny Jesus, as if they no longer have freewill. If this were true then there wouldn't be "ex-Christian" social media forums. Prominent Christian evangelists have denounced the faith before. Satan is real and can deceive Christians.

>Salvation at judgement?

Romans 14:12. 1 Peter 1:13, 2 Corinthians 5:10, 2 Peter 2:9

Hello, if that's true then how does that reconcile with Luke 12:10. Do you not think that committing blasphemy of the holy ghost would separate you from Christ?

Ray, If you've accepted Jesus as your saviour, then you have not committed the unpardonable sin.

Rejecting Jesus is the unpardonable sin

Luke 12:9

But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God.

Speaking out against God isn't unpardonable, denying him is.

Luke 12:10

And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

And if you are in Christ Jesus, you are not condemned to anything.

Romans 8:1

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

If you confess your sins to him, he will forgive you.

1 John 1:9

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

And if by any chance you're scared God might take your wife or kids away, remember these:

Matthew 19:6

Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

James 1:17

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

Just confess your sins and ask for forgiveness and don't worry about them any more; God will forget them.

Psalm 103:11-12

For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him. [12] As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

But don't use that as an excuse to continue in sin..

God will chastise you.

Romans 6:1-2

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? [2] God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Hebrews 12:6

For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

If you are ever tempted to sin again, read 1 Corinthians 10:13

No one is saved until after they are judged on the day of judgment. We can have hope and assurance of salvation if we genuinely follow Jesus, but the Bible doesn't say anywhere that you will be saved regardless of your beliefs, faith, actions. Does that mean 100% of all people are saved, even Hitler and mass murderers? Jesus said most people will go to hell, so that doesn't square up. He even said many will cry out Lord, Lord, assuming they will make it to heaven, but won't. He even warned his followers (Christians) to obey and not fall into sin. If everyone was saved regardless, then it's unlikely Jesus would have warned so many people with parables.

This one verse Luke 12:10 says whomever commits this sin will not be forgiven. The idea of once saved, always saved contradicts itself, because it assumes a person who becomes a Christian no longer has freewill, which is untrue and inconsistent with the Bible. Even angels in heaven had freewill and chose to rebel, like satan. So, just because someone responds to an altar call and decides to follow Jesus doesn't mean he instantly is stripped of freewill. He absolutely still has a choice every day of who he wants to follow: Jesus, or the world (satan). Sadly, too many Christians have denounced their faith and have turned to follow the world. Becoming a Christian doesn't give anyone a license to commit unlimited sin and those who have spread this lie is doing the work of satan. There are many verses in the Bible supporting this and are posted often in the discussion threads.

Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

James 2:14-26 "...faith, if it hath not works, is dead..."

James 2:19 "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

1 Peter 1:13 "...hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;"

Romans 11

John 14:15

John 14:15

Luke 12:5

James 2:14

Some emphasize some verses over others which frames their beliefs, but all verses in context need to be taken into consideration. Some tend to emphasize grace and deemphasize works, but it's both just as it says in James 2.

One of the devil's biggest lies is deceiving believers into thinking they don't need to actively follow Jesus and don't need to do anything. If that was true, I don't think Jesus would have warned his followers (Christians) so much through his parables. The Bible talks about keeping strong in the faith, armor of God on, striving for the fruit of the spirit, running the race to the end to get the 'prize'. We can have assurance of faith if we're genuinely following Christ (a Christian), but no one receives salvation until we are judged after this life. If people think they've earned a get out of hell free card and can just sit back and do nothing or follow the world and commit unlimited unrepentant sin and still get to heaven that would be a devastatingly false assumption. God bless. Matthew 7:21

Great, thank you Richard.

What I was hoping to compare is the word for fear in 1 John 4:18 (perfect love cast out fear) vs. Luke 12:5 (fear him... who can cast you to hell).

So, I found Bible Hub has a Greek interlinear comparison and found the following:

1 John 4:18 (perfect love cast out fear): fear = Phobos/phobon (fear, terror, alarm; object or cause of fear; reverence, respect.

Luke 12:5 (fear him... who can cast you to hell): fear = phobthte (to frighten, be alarmed by. By analogy, to be in awe of; Revere.)

It appears to be the same root word, but just like in English its common to have different meanings for the same word, like the word 'conceive'. So, I believe at bare minimum fearing God means to be in upmost awe of and reverence. The context of being afraid of the one who can send you to hell seems to indicate a dose of real fear as well, maybe similar to a child being afraid when they risk doing something wrong and fear punishment by their parents, but I think this is different than fear/terror that perhaps is used in 1 John 4:18, that perfect love will get rid of that.

Interested if anyone else has another perspective on this.

In reply to " The 1st commandment is to LOVE God not fear him"

The Bible says many times to fear God. The Bible doesn't say to "not" fear God as you put it. 1 John 4:18 seems to suggest love and fear and opposites. Maybe these are mutually exclusive when it comes to how we treat others, but maybe God in an exception. The Bible clearly says to love God and clearly says to fear God. Therefore, I'm inclined to believe that it's both. Some say the fear means a high level of respect rather than a petrified fear. If anyone wants to compare the original Hebrew or Greek to see if its the same word or not, that might be helpful.

Proverbs 9:10, Ephesians 5:21, Jeremiah 32:39, Luke 12:5, Leviticus 25:17.

Joe, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

If Lazarus and and the rich man is not a parable; it makes Christ's words a lie:

Matthew 13:34 ALL these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in PARABLES;and without a PARABLE SPAKE HE NOT UNTO THEM.

Luke 12:41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest this parable unto us, or even to all?

The disciples walked with Jesus three and one half years and never understood a word he said; UNTIL he took them aside and explained the PARABLES to them. Today you can't understand the PARABLES; unless CHRIST IN YOU explains them to you. Ask and you shall receive.

Ezekiel 20:47 And say to the forest of the south, Hear the word of the LORD, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will kindle a FIRE in thee, and it shall devour every green tree in thee, and every dry tree: the flaming FIRE shall not be quenched, and all faces from the south to the north shall be burned therein.

Ezekiel 20:42 Then said I, Ah Lord God, Doeth he not speak in PARABLES?

Luke 12:49 I am come to send FIRE on the earth; and what will I, if it be ALREADY KINDLED?

Luke 12:50 But I have a baptism to be baptised with; and how am I straightened till it be accomplished!

Matthew 3:11 ......he shall baptise you with the Holy Ghost; and with FIRE.

John 10:6 Jesus spake this parable unto them: but they UNDERSTOOD NOT what things they were which he spoke to them.

Hebrews 12:29 For our God is a consuming FIRE.

In regards to Luke 12:10. Everything we do we do by the Spirit, no man that has the spirit of God will blasphem the Holyspirit.

God's kingdom will not if the Holyspirit blasphem itself!

You see the notion here in Luke 11:17-18. But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them,

( Every kingdom ) divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.

If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.

What is the works and purpose of the Holyspirit?

Here's a few:

:He seals us.

Ephesians 4:30. And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

If God seals us can we unsealed ourselves? If so what does a seal mean?

He teaches us:

1 Corinthians 2:13. WHICH THINGS ALSO WE SPEAK, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Would the Holyspirit teach man to blasphem the Holyspirit?

1 John 2:27. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Anyone who thinks a Christian can blasphem the Holyspirit may not understand what blasphem the Holyspirit means.

Now lets revisit Luke 12:10 and see who Jesus is talking to and who the warning goes out to.

Luke 12:1 (KJV) In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the PHARISEES, which is hypocrisy.

Chapter 11 the Lord is giving the woes to the Pharisees.

Chapter 12 he's taking to the disciples about the leaven of the Pharisees.

He's not warning the disciples of blasphemy of the Holyspirit. HE CHOSE THEM AND HE CAN KEEP THEM.

Sorry, I meant Luke 12:48!

Dianne,

Here is the key to understanding Luke 12:10. It says, "For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more."

We have seen it so far with Jesus, and the city of Capernaum. He says woe to you Capernaum. And Capernaum was the city that Jesus lived in for three years in His ministry in the north in Galilee before He went to Jerusalem.

He says woe to you Capernaum, woe to you Bethsaida, the cities around the Sea of Galilee. It will be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah. It will be more tolerable than Tyre and Sidon than for you. We all know how corrupt and evil Sodom and Gomorrah were.

Jesus is saying that there is a degree of punishment and a degree of reward. There will be degrees of punishment in hell, and there will be degrees of rewards in heaven. What Jesus is saying here is that there will be punishment, beating with stripes for those who knew the Lord's will and didn't do it, and less stripes for those who knew it and did it.

But in our day, we are more blessed today than at any time in church history. We have got the whole Bible. We have got technology where we can study it, and broadcast it, and share it like no other time in history.

We have more responsibility given to us than any other Christians in church history. We've got it all and we don't have to do it by ourselves. God's Spirit is with us. He uses us. He is the one who ministers through us.

So it is not stress on us. We only have one thing to think about. Keep our face set toward Jerusalem. Keep our face set towards the mark of the prize of the high calling in Christ Jesus. Keep our minds and our heart set on the finish line.

That is all we have to do. And if something in the world reaches out to grab us, to distract us, and to pull us off the path, we are to let it go, just let it go. It isn't worth it!

I would like to understand Luke 12:48 better. Can someone help me do this?

Rev robert, may the Spirit grace you with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

Revelation 14

Revelation 15

Revelation 16

This is the work of CHRIST DEATH on the cross and the work of HIS RESURRECTION and the battle ( Revelation 16:14) we are caused to fight to come to this TRUTH IN CHRIST. Being fulfilled for the last 2000 years as the Fathers draws us to CHRIST and CHRIST gives us HIS UNDERSTANDING to overcome. ASK HIM he will cause you to understand; but it HIS time frame. We have been in the day of the Lord now for 2000 years. He is harvesting HIS FRUITS as they become first ripe (firstfruits) ( Revelation 14:14-20) ( Matthew 20:1-16)

When the sixth seal was opened ( Revelation 6:12) Christ was crucified; prophecy of ( Joel 2:31). The old testament saints and the children of the resurrection were raised with him ( Isaiah 26:19),( Revelation 20:5-6) and ( Matthew 27:52-53). The old testament saints were sealed with the Holy Spirit and the body of Christ ( 1 Timothy 6:16)( Revelation 7:3-8). There was silence in heaven for one half hour ( Revelation 8:1) between the sixth and seventh seal. This is the 45 days between Christ resurrection and pentecost ( Daniel 12:11-12) 1335 days minus 1290 days. No one could enter into the temple (into Christ) until the seven plagues were pour out on Christ (he took God's wrath for us). now we can be ONE IN CHRIST ( Revelation 15:6-8). The four living creatures before the throne ( Revelation 4:6-8) is all creation. God made a covenant with Noah that they would never be destroyed again ( Genesis 9:9-12) man, cattle, beast and fowl. ( Ezekiel 1:10) ( Revelation 4:7). ALL CREATION will worship God. The lake of fire is how Christ cleanses and purifies us.

Hebrews 12:29

Luke 12:49-50

Matthew 3:11-12

Isaiah 9:5

Isaiah 4:3-4

Malachai 3:2-3

Ezekiel 20:46-49

1 Corinthians 3:15

Hello Bro Barney,

Naturally, I disagree with your interpretation of the scripture and the assumptions made.

I believe the argument of once saved always saved contradicts itself. Here's how:

1. Someone believes God gave them freewill.

2. Someone believes all Christians are already 'saved' and that status never changes.

3. Then they are asked about Luke 12:10 blasphemy of the holy ghost.

4. They then claim it doesn't apply to Christians, that Christians can't, that they don't even have the freewill to sin, despite many documented cases of Christians doing exactly that both in the Bible and in the world today. Isaiah 14:12-14 shows that even angels in heaven have freewill to sin and blaspheme.

Christians still need to face judgment day like everyone else. Only after can someone be actually saved. If we genuinely follow Christ we can be assured of salvation, but the Bible warns us plenty of times to obey, to run the race, to persevere, to abide in the doctrine of Christ 2 John 1:8-9, it paints a much different picture than that I get from others who claim its ok to sin, that you can't sin, that you can be in the world and do whatever you want with zero penalty, and don't even have to worry about turning your back on Christ or blaspheming, because you can't do that. That's the opposite message of what Jesus said. Hebrews 6:4, John 14:15, Matthew 5:13, MATTHEW 7:23.

If once saved always saved is true, does that mean Christians can commit mass murder and still go to heaven? violence? rape? blasphemy? Or that their freewill is restricted so it's impossible for that to happen? Judas betrayed Jesus, and many Christians leave the faith and reject Jesus, unfortunately. There's a forum on Reddit called ex-Christian if you don't believe it. So, are all ex-Christians who reject Jesus still saved then?

Which is more likely: that satan, the father of lies is deceiving Christians into obeying God more than necessary, or that committing unlimited sin is ok?

Adam,

Please do not take offense to my reply, I only want to clarify my answers for others. I have heard arguments such as yours many times. However, they fail to stand when all scripture is considered.

You are correct stating "genuine Christian" "trying to avoid sin" and a person is "claiming they're saved and can do whatever they want."

You have just described two different persons you will find in Christianity. One has repented, ask for forgiveness, and put their faith and trust in Jesus Christ to save them. The other only claims to have done this. One has been saved by the work of Christ and is given eternal life, the other has not.

As for judgments after death, the unbeliever is already judged and condemned, Joh 3:18. The judgments after death are the Judgement Seat of Christ to judge the believers service with lose of rewards not salvation, Rom 14:10, 2Co 5:10, 1Cor 3:12-15. The second is the Great White Throne Judgment for those that rejected God's truth with punishment in the lake of fire, Rev 20:11-15.

Do not misunderstand me, there are consequences to sin, even for the saved. Rev. 3:19

However, chastening is not the loss of salvation.

Where I see an error is in your misunderstanding of Luke 12:10. To blaspheme against the Holy Ghost is to reject His ministry. What is His ministry?

Joh 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, he shall testify of me:

Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

If an unsaved person continually rejects the Holy Spirits efforts to convince them of their sins and need of salvation through Jesus Christ, then they will not be forgiven. A person that is "truly" saved cannot blaspheme the Holy Spirit as they have accepted His witness and is then indwelled by Him. Rom. 8:9, 14, 1Cor. 6:11, 2Cor. 1:22, Eph. 4:30

As for obedience (works) see the following: Eph. 2:9, Mat. 11:30, Joh. 8:36.

We obey Jesus out of love not to be co-redeemers.

Thank you and God bless

Dear Bro Barney,

The verses you read refer to genuine Christians who are following (and obeying) Christ.

If you put those verses in context with all the other verses like John 14:15, then you realize obeying is pretty important. Christianity is about following Christ, not a get out of hell free card or an unlimited license to sin. It assumes someone is a genuine Christian who avoids sin and obeys God. Obedience doesn't mean there's no grace either. We're still saved by grace, but we're genuinely trying to avoid sin. Whereas someone deliberately sinning and claiming they're saved and can do whatever they want is in danger. Many will cry out, Lord, Lord, and Jesus will not know them, which includes faux Christians.

Luke 12:10 this verse alone debunks the once saved always saved belief, because it clearly says this sin will not be forgiven. Also, no one is 'saved' until they are judged after this life. Those who genuinely follow Jesus can have assurance in salvation, but the Word also says to fear God. Luke 12:4.

I have a feeling these verses won't change anyone's mind once you've made up your mind what you want to believe, but perhaps at least pray about it before suggesting to others that they're saved even if they commit horrific sins and live in the Word and turn their back on Jesus to follow the devil as some Christians sometimes do. Hitler grew up attending church and if you believe OSAS maybe some think Hitler and everyone will be in heaven too along with all other mass murderers. But I don't believe that, I believe satan is trying to convince people they don't need to obey God anymore. God bless.

BSP you are so right .thankyou ,you remind me that i really must try harder not to allow the things of this life to worry me so much ,thankyou again .

I will be a lily in the mire

What May Be of Assistance:

In order to have a more understanding of the sculpture a Luke 12:25 wonderful study practice is to always read the previous scripture Luke 12:24 and the following 2-3 scriptures Luke 12:26 Luke 12:27 and

Luke 12:28 which may assist to allow a deeper understanding.

The thing I really appreciate and like regarding King James Bible Online is the also provide other Bible scripture commentaries from other various Bible Editions featured immediately below the King James others such as:

New American Standard Version (1995

American Standard Version (1901)

Basic English Bible.

Darby Bible.

Douay Rheims Bible.

Webster's Bible.

Weymouth Bible.

World English Bible.

Wycliffe Bible.

Jewish Publication Society Bible

The flowers are arrayed in beautiful colors and various designs but these are easy trampled over or die quickly. If Jehovah God take such care of the flowers and in making them beautiful, how much more so will he take care of us who have been made in his image.

Darren, may the spirit grace you with his wisdom and his knowledge.

no part of revelation is going to occur in the physical sense.

revelation is spiritual warfare for the kingdom of heaven.

revelation is completely symbolic.

isaiah 9:5 now every (natural) battle of the warrior is with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood; but this (spiritual battle) shall be with burning and fuel of fire.

isaiah 9:19 ....and the people shall be as the fuel of the fire....

isaiah 4:4 when the lord (a consuming fire hebrews 12:29) shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of (new) zion, and shall have purged the blood of (new) jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgement and the spirit of burning.

luke 12:49 i am come to send fire on the earth; and what be i (the fire), if it (the fire) be kindled already?

matthew 4:11 ....he shall baptize you with the holy spirit and with fire;

isaiah 9:18 for wickedness burneth as the fire (our god is a consuming fire).....

isaiah 10:16 .... and under his glory (us) he shall kindle a burning like the burning of a fire.

isaiah 24:15 wherefore glorify ye the lord in the fires ....

isaiah 31:9 ....whose fire is in (new) zion, and his furnace in (new) jerusalem.

isaiah 33:14 .....who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burning?

where the fire is never quenched (our god is a consuming fire)

isaiah 42:25 therefore he hath poured upon him the fury of his anger, and the strength of battle; and it (the battle) hath set him on fire round about, yet he knew not; and it (the battle) burned him, and he laid it not to heart.

ezekiel 5:2 thou shall burn with fire a third part in the midst of the (new jerusalem, christ in you).....

zachariah 13:9 and i will bring the third part through the fire ....

revelation 8:1-13

revelation 9:18 by these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire...brimstone...smoke....

hebrews 9:27

1 peter 4:17

Hello, just as a point of clarification, the Bible clearly says someone must NOT deliberately continue sinning and expect to be covered by grace. Hebrews 10:26. Matthew 7:21, Luke 12:10. The Bible contradicts the false teaching of once saved, always saved. Christianity means to follow Christ, if someone claims they were 'saved' and follows the devil and commits mass murder for the rest of their life, there's no scripture that says that person is saved, but it says quite the opposite. Satan is trying to deceive Christians into thinking it's ok to sin, but Jesus said the opposite. John 14:15. So, who will someone believe and follow: the devil, or Jesus?

Luke 12:10 is in the New Testament. This verse is 100% clear to me what it means and it applies to everyone. I don't see any other way to interpret it. Christians are not immune to this, Christians must still be obedient, and Christians still have freewill.

First, this you quoted is an Old Testament verse; Jesus hadn't died for anybody's sins yet; And no one was born again.

Luke 12:10 "And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

whether a person blasphemes the Holy Ghost or not, they are headed for hell. for they are all condemned. John 3:18 "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." 2 Timothy 2:15 "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." So it's not as easy as just finding a verse like that and wrongfully applying it, You must put in the Age of Grace, or it is taken out of context.

Hi Charles,

Those are excellent verses you listed, but they don't prove that once saved, always saved. The only verse someone needs to see to refute that is: Luke 12:10. It says if anyone (including Christians) commits blasphemy of the holy ghost they won't be forgiven. You are welcome to read my other post for more scripture, but all someone needs to see is that one verse to see that someone can be a Christian then still has the freewill to do the opposite and not be saved. God bless...

First, we aren't actually saved until judgement day. Some say we're 'saved' when we 'accept' Jesus Christ into our heart, but no where in the Bible does it say that. What it actually says is to be a Christian is this: Link

A Christian is a Christ follower- it means we are actively following Christ. If we genuinely do that the Bible says our sins will be covered by Jesus's sacrifice and grace. However, just because we become a Christian doesn't mean we're stripped of freewill and become robots- we still have full ability to choose good or evil, to sin or not sin, and we're still tempted by satan. Therefore, some people slip up occasionally and sin, but still genuinely try to follow Christ, however, some do stop, turn and follow satan and follow the evil of the world. That person is not saved and they are technically not acting like a Christian anymore.

Those who claim once saved always saved always fail to explain one simple indisputable verse: Luke 12:10. Jesus tells his followers (Christians) that if they commit blashphemy of the holy ghost they will not be saved. Hebrews 10:26 is another indisputable verse that was talking to Christians, saying that Christianity isn't a license to sin, or a get out of jail free card. Non-Christians who haven't received the knowledge of the truth as it says have ignorance as an excuse and doesn't apply to them.

Here's anther: Hebrews 6:4 - 6:6 and another: Matthew 7:21 - 7:23

The Bible speaks for itself. Only would have to cherry pick around all these 100% clear verses in order to come up with the opposite conclusion.

Satan is behind all lies and he's a great deceiver, so which is more likely: that he's deceiving people to fear God and obey Him more than they need to? Or, is it more likely satan is deceiving people into believing they're saved and it's ok to sin and follow the world?

God bless...

If God is not, "one being but three distinct persons (Trinity)", as you claim, than scripture must be wrong. Than as Paul states "God forbid". In John 14:26 why then did Jesus call the Comforter (Holy Ghost) "he" as in reference to a person as opposed to "it" as you would describe him, or in John 16:7 "but if I depart, I will send "him" unto you," another reference to the Holy Ghost, as a person. 16:13 "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."

Matthew 12:31 "Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men."

These are but a few scriptures to support that the Holy Ghost is a distinct part of the Trinity of God.

As per your claim "The Spirit is not a person" it would be nice to see some scripture to support your view.

Luke 12:12,

1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." 1 John 5:8 "And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one." John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John 14:26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

John 16:7-16 "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."

Matthew 10:32

Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

Luke 12:8

Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:

Romans 10:9

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

1 John 4:15

Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

John 12:42

Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:

Romans 14:11

For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

Philippians 2:11

And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

2 John 1:7

For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Revelation 3:5

He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Romans 15:9

And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.

John 9:22

These words spake his parents, because they feared the Jews: for the Jews had agreed already, that if any man did confess that he was Christ, he should be put out of the synagogue.

1 John 1:9

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.