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24But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,
25And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.
Further insight. As Ephesians 1:6 states we are to be made acceptable in the beloved. As far as us "accepting" Christ; that is not Biblical as James 2:19 warns about God. Christ is more than Savior; He is Lord and Master; whether we acknowledge it or not there are only two alternatives ( Matthew 21:44). His Sheep hear His voice; the goats do not. ( John 10:27).
This "committing" of men it would seem would involve the Godhead living within someone and being sealed with the Spirit. It would involve chastising which Hebrews 12:8 in King James brings out pretty strongly in regard to those not in Christ who are "bastards."
Therefore Jesus had to do constant "weeding" out; and this would involve challenging statements; parables; and other means.
Jesus in Luke 16:15 warned that what was esteemed or honorable among men was an abomination to God. That is different than what Jesus Himself did when He was praised in Luke 2:52 for His growth in wisdom and stature in terms of how He "gained favor" at that time. That shows His humility in the 30 or so years; taking up the majority of His earthly life being submissive to His parents (unlike the Pharisees who found ways through their religious piety to disrespect parents for the sake of their own material gain).
Jesus loved His own so much that He made sure that He was the atoning sacrifice on the cross through His own volition; and death could not hold Him. (see John 10:18). It was a miracle in itself that He survived all the attempts on His life (including Gethsemene) through supernatural assistance so that He could make it to the cross to die at the set time and place. No one in scripture is said to be amazed at these acts
If we look at the time after Jesus was in the wilderness and began His public ministry; we see what begins as a few healings and public teachings in His hometown appear to rapidly grow with travel to surrounding areas where He cast out devils and did many healings. As late as Matthew 16:20 Jesus told to His Disciples not to tell anyone He was the Christ. The same instruction is in the Gospels of Mark as well as Luke. Jesus would speak Parables; eventually as the ONLY method of explaining these hidden truths to the general public. ( Matthew 13:13). This shows how deep the concept of Predestination is shown 2 verses later in Matthew 13:15 when He explains because of hard hearts they will not be given information needed to be saved. We must come to Christ on His terms; and at His drawing or prompting ( John 6:37). This concept also shows that Christ never was seeking acclamation and didn't want to be set up as King on this earth before the time either; without understanding that He had to be the suffering Savior first. When a man asked Jesus to help him with unbelief ( Mark 9:24) we need to keep in mind that when on earth He was able to raise men from the dead; today we need to trust that He has power over death; hell and sin but we don't have any certainty that He will use a person to perform a healing through the power of the Spirit today. Nonetheless we should ask the Lord in prayer all things which we will apart from those things which are just for our own selfish desires; He ever intercedes for us according to God's will ( Heb. 7:25). Finally; Jesus knew that mere facts wouldn't save anyone; as evidenced in the rich man's pleas from Hades in Luke 16:31; and all other instances Jesus was harassed for healing on a Sabbath Day-they couldn't ever deny the miracles but accused Him of working on the Sabbath and blasphemy declaring that He was the "I AM" ( John 8:58).
And the LORD shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the LORD thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them: ( Deuteronomy 28:13).
Some things in our Christian walk may seem like worldly wisdom; but when we live in a society that is decaying much like the Roman Empire did we see how God contrasts the rewards of those with a work ethic compared to those who don't. 2 Thessalonians 3:10 states that if we don't work we don't eat; and amazingly enough Lenin who started Communist rule in Russia had the same ethic along with some early labor leaders in this country. The verse I have quoted could certainly apply to those who do NOT subject themselves to "usury" which God's people were told not to do or do to each other (see Nehemiah 5:7-10; Leviticus 25:36). That process; of course leads to bondage for extended payment well beyond that borrowed; and has many people in slavery in the world today.
When push comes to shove; when we ask God to provide income He will provide what is necessary in His timing if we are physically and mentally up to the work. To save money should of course be for our families and future inheritance as well as to meet our own needs; but also the principle of saving a little at a time is beneficial if we need to help those in our midst; particularly in the Body of Christ.
There are many other admonitions in scripture for husbands; wives and children to follow; as well as single people and widows.
If we call ourselves "Christian" and are lacking in any of these disciplines and we find God blessing someone who is not a believer because they are following some of these principles we should not be surprised. God is impartial and blesses those He wishes to bless; curses those likewise according to His will. (see Luke 16:9-13 as to how to use "unrighteous mammon"
And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God. (PHillipians 1:28)."
And as soon as we had heard these things, our hearts did melt, neither did there remain any more courage in any man, because of you: for the LORD your God, he is God in heaven above, and in earth beneath. ( Joshua 2:11).
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom ( Proverbs 9:10). Continuing with some ideas from my previous post; it seems that when it comes to supposed testimonies of hell; the fear of the Lord and a sense of it being His wrath as a great part of the terror is lost in accounts of suffering. The same thing makes us even more suspect with those testimonies about heaven; even Moses who knew God unlike any other man at the time ( Exodus 33:11) and spoke to Him as a friend still had fear when He appeared in all His glory ( Deut. 9:19). WE ALL SHOULD TAKE THIS ADMONITION SERIOUSLY as to fear and AWE of Him no matter how long we have been believers (sorry but I felt caps were needed here).
The assurance of salvation and the evident blessings being present on someone brings meaning to the first quote from Philippians; and the fact that we will return with Him ( Rev. 19:14) will strike fear in those whose eyes are now opened;
along with the fear of judgment to come.
The concept of our enemies also needs to be addressed along with our own enmity toward God that we now have reconciled.
Romans 11:28 shows how the unbeliving Jews were enemies in one sense; yet Paul wished that he himself could be accursed to save them ( Romans 9:3). We are to love our enemies; but not fraternize to gain reputation as the world does; for what is honorable among men is an abomination to God ( Luke 16:15 also could be "highly esteemed"). We should have no part fellowshipping with those who preach a false Gospel; and in no uncertain terms testify to the peril the unsaved is in apart from repentance.
......The law and the Prophets were until John since that time the Kingdom of God is preached and all men press into it Luke 16:16
There was no baptism of the H.G. till Christ came....Thus no new birth till Christ came.....No new Creature till Christ came....The H.G. was not given till Christ was glorified.....Thus no kingdom or real Salvation from Sin....till the woman births the manchild...... Rev. 12:10....Simply b/c the book of life was sealed with 7 seals.....Jesus wrote this book of life with his own blood at Calvary.....The O.T. answers to the 1st wine the law.....But the N.T. answers to the 2 nd wine which was the best wine.....The gift of the H.G. the Kingdom that is gonna rule all nations .....The wedding was not till the 3 rd Day which is the last day when Jesus turned the water into wine....
.......The Kingdom of God is not in meat or drink but in Joy and Peace in the H.G. Romans 14:17.....The REAL H.G. is the Kingdom of God.
.......But the O.T. was a shadow of things to come.....Just as Abraham Isaac and Jacob were multiplied as the sands of the seas so the heavenly Godhead will be multiplied as the stars of heaven.....Thus there will be an Israel of God as the stars of heaven....The seed of Christ will produce a heavenly ppl that are gona be born in us.....Which answers to our new hearts and new spirits.....The H.G. The Children of Promise.....Flesh and blood are not the real Children of God ....Its only the Children of Promise that are counted for the good seed Roman 9:8 kjv.....Which are Spirits the H.G. Plural...I will pour out of my Spirit on all flesh....Thus the sower and his seed, his words as my words are SPIRIT and Life.....The field is the world...But this New Covenant is gonna make us Gods.....To whom the word came ( the living word) it made them Gods and the scriptures.....Thats y the Prophets were saying what manner of love has the father bestowed on us.
Prophecy was inextricably woven throughout all phases of Jesus' ministry. The Parables had hidden truths on His return; the fate of the Apostles and the future end time events were emphasized in Matthew 24; and His role of God in the flesh was brought to the attention of the Pharisees as well as to those who would worship Him recognizing His Divinity. In this regard; of course hell was discussed more than heaven including the real account of Lazarus and the rich (unnamed) man in hell.
It is truly remarkable to see how the miraculous signs and wonders were unable to wake anyone up to the truth who God didn't elect. Such is the case with the Parable of Lazarus and the rich man. Such is the case in Luke 16:31. In fact; when we consider the Crucifixion and Resurrection even clear evidences weren't enough to convince the Roman officials and those in power. This is abundantly clear from Matthew 28:13 where the soldiers were actually paid for "sleeping on the job" when such an offence by law would be a death penalty certainty. Men will go out of their way to lie; just as we saw with Lazarus being raised by Christ they saught to kill him and Christ because of their insane jealousy of His authority ( John 12:9-11).
In all of this we shouldn't avoid seeing the big picture. Christ in all of His ministry only did the Father's will ( John 8:28; 38; John 12:49). His exaltation; therefore and claims to Diviity were never self serving; but whowed God's plan. Somehow Christ would condescend to being a man; and have a life of sorrow and suffering ( Isaiah 53); then He would take on the sins of all His elect and be our atonement; dying on the cross and rising victorious. EXERCISING His authority would be after God grants it to Him ( John 28:18). He voluntarily emptied Himself of this authority so God could renew it (Phillipians 2:5-8).
Christ knew all men's hearts. We can say that all things were done in the Spirit by Him.
In Daniel 12:1,2, we read about the resurrection of the body in that final day, but there is no mention of the fate of the spirit of the deceased. Then in the account that Jesus gave of the wealthy man & poor Lazarus ( Luke 16:19-31), we note that Jesus spoke of three men: one in torment in hell's flames, one in relative peace & comfort in paradise, & with Abraham at his side. If any of these men just remained in the grave, Jesus would not have spoken of life beyond the grave soon after their deaths & such a life where either torment or peace can be experienced.
Even the Apostle Paul expressed his desire to leave this Earth ( Philippians 1:21-24) & to be with Christ, though he was required to continue to be used of God in the Gospel for a little longer. Paul didn't expect to lie in the grave, but his hope was that death would actually be welcome, for it meant that he would be with his Lord & Savior. And in passages such as Revelation 4:4; Revelation 5:5-10; Revelation 19:4; etc. we read about the Elders around God's Throne in Heaven. So I believe that at death our spirits return to God to join the host of Heaven worshiping the Lord of Glory. And when Jesus returns in the clouds to receive His beloved, those who have died in Christ will have their bodies re-formed to join their spirits, & those believers alive at that time will arise physically to be with the Lord forever. All this points to Jesus snatching away His people off the Earth before the awful Judgements of God come upon the unbelieving world. And then we all reign with Christ on the Earth in the Millennium period.
I wish to put the focus of this study on the time before the last week of Christ's ministry leading to the cross; as His daily stresses and activities tend to be underplayed in comparison. I would be amiss not to discuss the Passion week; although I will need much prayer and planning for such a prodigious and solemn undertaking. A cursory statement here will suffice: Christ always had others in focus above His own needs; which was especially noticeable from the Last Supper on. This short week takes up a huge chunk of volume in the Gospels of His life; sort of like a zip file on a computer. We could spend a lifetime contemplating its meaning in regard to the unconditional love for us; undeserving sinners that held Him to that cross.
Putting that aside for now; suffice to say that the coming cross certainly was first and foremost as mentioned in the introduction; on the mind of Christ.
Let us begin our examination with Luke 16:12 to Luke 17:10. This was a very LONG day. Christ started with ALL NIGHT prayer before He chose the 12 Disciples. He was in that roundup to call them all; INCLUDING Judas Iscariot; who He knew was prophesied to betray Him (see verse 16). Immediately after that the crowds came to Christ and then He healed many (verse 17-19). Then He began the Beatitudes. Note that HE FACED HIS DISCIPLES when saying this discourse; which encompasses the rest of that chapter. The sermon had a specific message for them.
Chapter 7 begins with the story of the story of the Centurion. He showed great faith in understanding the authority of Christ and how a man in that position shouldn't be imposed on unnecessarily and that he was unworthy to have Christ in His house.
This gave great commendation from Christ. What we don't think about is the physical exhaustion that was somewhat relieved in not having to undertake the rest of the journey. We need to always look at Christ as perfect God and perfect man.
Part 1
Did not know it was Messiah the King in Dan. 9:25, whether that would matter, we know He is King.
I have enjoyed this discussion because of its importance not on salvation but for those who will be living when the end starts. This 70th week, if it is in the future or if it has been fulfilled in the past makes a world of difference in what people are expecting to happen.
If the 70th week is in the future there will be the 7-year pre, mid, or post-tribulation as taught, but if it has been fulfilled in the past that would make that false. What outcome would that have on those who are here?
Daniels people, the lost sheep of Israel, Matt. 10:5-6 did not reject Him, it was the corrupt rulers of Jerusalem and the temple, Luke 16:14-15 whose eyes were blinded and Jesus cried over it Luke 19:39-44. Many of them believed in Him but would not confess Him, John 12:42. Jesus the Messiah had to be cut off/sacrificed, Psalm 22:16-18 Isaiah 53:8-12 to atone for sins, Dan. 9:26.
If the priests and leaders of Jerusalem had received Jesus as their Messiah and had not conspired with the Romans to crucify Him, there would be no atonement sacrifice for the salvation of the Jews first and also to the Greek/Gentiles, it was God's plan.
Daniel 9:25-27 is a precise prediction of when Jesus would come and be anointed. In the scripture from Matthew to Acts 8:4-5, there is strong evidence without assumption of a 7-year amount of time from the anointing of Jesus the Messiah and His 3.5-year ministry/confirming the covenant to the lost sheep of Israel, Daniel's people.
His crucifixion in the middle and 3.5 more years the gospel was to only the lost sheep, Daniel's people by Jesus through His apostles, thousands were saved, then the death of Stephen, and the gospel going to the Gentiles, to make the Jews jealous, the branch broke off, but still offered to the Jews.
See Part 2
Secondly, a parable does not reveal people's names or places - for if they did, then it no longer is a parable (a simple story) but a true account with real people. So in the case of Luke 16:19-31 for example, people's names are given (Lazarus & Abraham), names which shouldn't appear in a parable; once names are given then the implication is that those people & events are real & not just a story with a message. If the story teller just used proper names or places (e.g. Lazarus & Abraham or anyone else in a parable) glibly, then he could justifiably said to be a liar, for those people did not actually exist in the story given.
Lastly, I believe in the eternal nature of the human spirit/soul - it can never be destroyed. So here then is a further hurdle we have to deal with, as to the destiny of the 'real' person, even if the body lies & disintegrates in the earth. Just thought to share these points at the outset so you know where I'm coming from. Blessings.
Or, the account of those three in hades: Lazarus, the rich man & Abraham. Was Jesus deceiving His disciples by instilling fear in them about eternity that the rich man was in torment in hell ( Luke 16:23,24)?; & this was only the first judgement - he had to still stand before God in the resurrection readied to be cast into eternal fire. If the full consequences of man's sin & rejection of his only hope from God for his salvation is rejected, can man ever expect any other Mercy after death?
And finally, I think I remember your comments from a while back, relating to how we use the Scriptures & I referred to biblical hermeneutics. I apologize if that wasn't you, but your name seems to stick in my mind. The comment I believe was 'the Bible in its entirety must be our ultimate authority, comparing Scripture with Scripture'. I do acknowledge the Scriptures that you believe support only a physical death at the end, as punishment, but I also gave you others, which you can look at above in this thread. I'm using the same rule that you gave us; how do those Scriptures & those that others here have given you, apply/complement/fall short of what you believe? Because of your earnestness to consider all of Scripture, I would be very interested as to how you bring these seemingly opposing Scriptures to your understanding. Thank you & blessings.
Firstly we start from the Old Testament.
Jesus has said the story of the rich man and Lazarus who lived in the Old Testament era, Luke 16:31.
They both (their souls) went down inside the earth but in different compartments. The poor man Lazarus went to a place called Abraham's bosom (which means together with Abraham and all the saints of the Old Testament) were he was comforted.. At the same time the rich man (the sinner) went to hell were he was tormented. Why didn't the righteous people like Lazarus go into Heaven? Because Jesus had not been sacrificed yet so no people had the right to enter Heaven. It is Jesus' sacrifice that actually erases people's sins (even those of people who strive to live a righteous life) and that had not had occured yet.
After Jesus was resurrected from the dead He took the souls of the righteous people from Abraham's bosom and carried them into Heaven. How do we know that? Because in Rev 6:9-11 we see the souls of righteous people in Heaven, under the altar (which means under Jesus' sacrifice) inside God's Temple in Heaven. The sinners remain in Hell.
At the end of this world, after the resurrection of all people who lived since the begining of mankind,the final Judgement will be done by God. The righteous will go to live with God in the new earth He is going to create for them living happily for ever and ever. And the sinners will be thrown into the lake of fire and will be tormented for ever. see Rev 21
Matthew 25:34, "Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand (the righteous), Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:"
Matthew 25:41, "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand (the sinners) Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:"
GBU
Jesus tells us below - that we should fear God as He can cast us into hell.
Luke 12:4-5
4And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. 5But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
Here a just a few of many verses stating that the unjust/unbeliever/unrepentant sinner will suffer for eternity in Hell.
Luke 16:22-25
Matt 25:41
Matt 3:12
Matt 25:46
Daniel 12:2
Mark 9:44-49
2 Thess 1:8-9
Rev 20:10
Rev 14:10-11
I know in the world we live in today, the popular belief among many preachers and Christians is that God is only good, kind, loving, and forgiving, and because of this - He will not throw anyone into Hell - to suffer for eternity. But that God will only leave us dead for eternity. This kind of teaching is false doctrine and does not conform to the bible, and Jesus own words. As Christian's we must always have a healthy fear of God.
Proverbs 1:7
"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction."
God tells us Hell is real!
Read and Believe!
There seems to be; as with any other issue two extremes among the professing church today. Hell is taken as a figurative place; or not eternal in one extreme and the other end of the spectrum is a belief in every testimony of an afterlife experience on such matters that can be found without a critical examination of the message being delivered (is it scriptural?); the fruit of the life of such an individual (are they clearly out for self promotion and greedy gain); or is it something that should be considered taken seriously?
The first issue should; along with other core doctrines that have been assumed up until recently to be foundational for us to be a Christian not even have to be discussed; in my opinion. We can't naively believe that most churches in even what were solid doctrinally a generation ago have anything correct now; I am not even sure which pole was taken but apparently belief in Christ being God in the flesh; being the only way to salvation; and other issues have succumbed to today's popular agendas. I'd place a bet that most who don't believe in a literal hell somehow still hold out hope for a real; eternal heaven (as misguided as their view of what it is like and such may be).
On the other side; I will state if I can on this site the testimony of Bill Weise. He himself says that he isn't concerned about us believing him but the Word; and in the speaking engagement I saw him in he must have had two or three hundred scriptures memorized from the O.T. and N.T. on the subject. There may be others like this; but I am not aware of them.
A common thing is lack of reverential fear of the Lord in these testimonies; only clinging on to Him when rescued from what they claim was hell. We see assumptions that go against verses such as Luke 16:31 where we think that those even if they had a real NDE or out of body experience that it would convince someone to repent. 2 Tim. 2:25 says the Lord grants repentance
I would like to say that I don't do any grumbling or complaining; but alas then I would be lying. Thankfully anything but blasphemy against the Spirit can be forgiven. As Jesus pointed out to the self-righteous Pharisees; these bad fruits come from within. And 2 Peter 2:21 makes it clear that it is better not to have known the truth than to become reprobate. The blood of Christ is our only hope as Jeremiah 17:9 shows how sick the heart is.
There are Post Millennialists who dispute this; but I don't believe anyone from the church age who is a believer will be at the Great White Throne Judgment. I DO have the opinion that since the verse indicates that those who aren't in the Book of Life are going to the lake of fire; there is room for those who physically survive the Millennial period to go through that as saved people and hence be translated into heaven without dying.
In any event; 1 Corinthians 3:15 indicates that one can make it into heaven and suffer loss. That would be analogous to losing rewards as Revelation 3:11 warns. Paul indicates how we run for the prize. Only a few gain great rewards; as would be indicated by those making 100 fold as opposed to 30 fold returns or others ( Mark 4:20). We should not be confined to just the saved and lost divisions when scripture gives us admonitions for certain crowns that those who persevere; are martyred or are pastors as well as other situations are given for faithfulness.
Matthew 6:19-21 shows us that our treasure is to be in heaven. And that means that He must trust us with earthly riches as well ( Luke 16:10-12) as a test; a prerequisite for heavenly riches. Our brothers in Christ that we support in the ministry will be able to enjoy the harvest with us (see John 4:37). That and personal witnessing are components of fulfilling the Great Commission to finish well.
Revelation 19 makes it clear that we shall follow Christ in heavenly armies upon His return in verse 14. All of our garments will be white suggesting purity; finally praise God our sins that often beset us will be removed; as well as our vile bodies transformed to ones befitting eternity in a glorified state ( 1 Cor. 15:40-50).
It appears that David Himself will rule with Christ in the Millennial period as a king ( Hosea 3:5). We also are "kings and priests" as seen in Revelation 1:6; 5:10 as well as 1 Peter 2:9 and likely elsewhere. Those who are faithful in few things will rule over many ( Luke 16:10); and that is in term of actual cities (See Matthew 25:21 and surrounding verses). Exactly how this will happen may not be fully known until that time; and being that some are diehard Postmillenials I certainly don't want to split hairs and be removed from posting here over this issue. How this affects the eternal reign after the 1000 years with God Himself coming to earth with the heavenly Jerusalem remains to be seen as well.
In the more immediate future; if we take Revelation in what appears to be chronological with the things "immediately after" ( Rev. 4:1) it would appear that we are represented before the 1st Seal as the "kings and priests" along with the 24 elders representing what most believe are the 12 Patriarchs and 12 Apostles. Physically present we would likely take an active part in the incense of the prayers of the saints as we see in 5:8 and 8:4 with the seal and trumpet judgments. We shall only behold the destruction of the wicked from afar ( Psalm 91:8 loosely translated).
Since we are already seated in heavenly places ( Eph. 2:6) we have much more going on than what we see now with our eyes.
May our conversation concerning all the evils of the world and our loathing of it be focused on the solution rather than the problem; namely prayer in the Spirit not that of Eccles. 7:10
John 10:18 shows us that Christ had the power to give up and take life back again. Starting at the statement at His death "it is finished" ( John 19:30) the atonement was complete at the same moment. The comment from the fellow prisoner (the one who repented) at the cross recieved a response just prior to that event where Christ assured him "today you shall be with me in paradise" ( Luke 23:43). This shows that sheol which at the time was the abode of all the dead (see state of Lazarus vs the rich man in the parable of Luke 16:19-31). Jesus came to set the captives free ( Ephesians 4:7-10) also alluded to in several other passages that could also refer to those captive in sin still on earth. He preached to the spirits in prison ( 1 Peter 3:19) which were either the demons or Nephilim and their offspring which were in the abyss before their time; or all the lost. Those who were His own were set free; their souls went to heaven and many appeared after His Resurrection ( Matt. 27:52-53). Thus; after this time only wicked in the torment part of hell still exist down there.
Christ; of course was the "first of the firstfruits" ( 1 Cor. 15:20). There will be the following afterwards; those who came out of their graves at that time as I stated above; then those at His appearing (i.e. Rapture); then those at His coming (2nd Coming). The firstfruits continue until the 144,000 which is a sort of gleaning of Israel ahead of the main harvest the countless multitude coming out of the Great Tribulation. ( Rev. 7:9).
What is most sobering is that Christ still bears marks on His body ( Luke 24:39); apparently the only one who is resurrected with such scars reminding us of his earthly suffering and existance. Hence; God did not allow His holy one to remain in sheol or see decay ( Psalm 16:10). He was the perfect; unblemished Lamb of God who we shall forever worship and adore.
Agape; Happy Resurrection Sunday.
Rich P
The last day has been going on for 2000 years, Paul understood he was living in the last day.
The word of God is written to each person; as you study and read, it's YOU, his church, the SPIRIT of Christ is speaking to, not a collective BODY, your the body of Christ.
Revelation is the revealing of Jesus Christ TO YOU; his church, his bride.
That (Christ) WHICH IS, and WAS, and WILL BE.
The words of Revelation mean the same TO YOU as it did to the person reading them 1900 years ago.
The words in Revelation are; ALSO, prophecies found in Mosses and the Prophets, Revelation is just a second witness.
In Matthew Jesus said, to be AWARE of the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel
The prophecy says the messiah will be CUT OFF in the middle of the week, and the abomination that maketh desolate SET UP, his happened at his death and resurrection.
Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be TAKEN AWAY (Christ become the once for all sacrifice) and the abomination that maketh desolate SET UP, shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days,
This 1290 days is the same 3 1/2 years spoken of in Revelation, the second witness.
The BEAST with seven heads and ten horns is also spoken of in Daniel.
Daniel 7:23 ...the FORTH BEAST shall be the forth (and last) kingdom on earth ....
The kingdom of Babylon (1st), the Medes and Persians (2nd), the kingdom of Grecia (3rd) and the KINGDOM OF GOD the 4th BEAST.
Luke 16:16 the law and prophets were until John, since that time the kingdom of God is preached ....
The forth BEAST: the kingdom of God has been on earth since John and will never cease to be, WHICH IS, and WAS and WILL BE: the last day, the sixth day in Genesis when man was CREATED by his resurrection with CHRIST.
God bless you.
2 Corinthians 5:8
"We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord."
And, read Luke 16:19-31 KJV, the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. When a person dies, they are in "heaven" so to speak, but there is a gulf, between those who believe and those who did not Luke 16:26. In 1 Thessalonians 4 when it says:
13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
By saying "will God bring with him", it means they are already in heaven, and when God returns, He'll bring the saints with Him.
If we live in the Spirit we cease to gratify the desires of the flesh. ( Galatians 5:16). We need to realize several things in regard to that subject. First of all the flesh signifies all those things which natural man desires in a self centered manner. God created all things for our enjoyment ( 1 Tim. 6:17); and this includes eating and drinking which Christ Himself did when on earth (but always took the necessary time for fasting and prayer). God created marriage as a covenant between a man and woman when we follow His plan; all other ways of fulfilling such desires are perversions in regard to fulfilling natural desires our own way and leaving God out of the picture.
What is necessary is to understand that if we seek His Kingdom first then He shall grant us the desires of our heart. ( Matt. 6:33). When we are reborn into Christ then His desires become our desires; although we see through a glass darkly ( 1 Cor. 13:12). All good things come from the father of lights; God above ( James 1:5). We should be growing in our walk in maturity and wisdom understanding the value of trusting in God; obeying His will and giving time for prayer; Bible study and fellowship.
He certainly doesn't need our help in our worldly accomplishments with the plans He has for us; although we should certainly avail ourselves to utilize all the natural gifts as well as spiritual ones He has given us for His glory. He does have plans for us to prosper ( Jeremiah 29:11). These involve ultimately spiritual treasure in heaven ( Matt. 6:20); but certainly it applies to our faithfulness with earthly wealth as well ( Luke 16:11). We should seek to be able to do all things to build up His Kingdom and minister to the Body of Christ whether with finances or service.
We should learn to recognize the tug of the Spirit in our interactions whether with the saints or others that may indeed be destined to be His children. Psalm 119:105 shows He illuminates our paths.
I will share my view.
In Luke 1:16-17 an Angel tells Johns father, "Zacharias". That he would have a son And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.
And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.
John the baptist had a great crowd and devout followers and he preached the coming of their expected Messiah and King.
The pressing multitudes that had followed John continued to follow Jesus' ( Luke 5:15, Luke 12:1).
In the context of this chapter we have Jesus authenticating John's ministry.
SO THAT BRINGS US TO THE TEXT.
Mathew 11:12.
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
Let's look at the word violence in this text.
Greek:
Transliteration: biaz
Pronunciation: bee-ad'-zo
Definition: From G970; to force that is (reflexively) to crowd oneself (into) or (passively) TO BE SEIZED: - PRESS SUFFER VIOLENCE
The pressing multitudes that had followed John continued to follow Jesus' ( Luke 5:15, Luke 12:1).
This is what Jesus is saying "The kingdom of God suffers violence." Pointing to the huge crowds that followed John and that were now following Him, Jesus likens them to an invading army surrounding a city to capture it.
Look at Luke's account.
Luke 16:16.
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
( From the days of John the Baptist until now," there has been an extraordinary rush of people pressing in from all sides eager to hear the gospel that they resembled an army trying to besiege a city.)
Matthew 11:14 he says;
"And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come."
I hope this helps.
God bless.
Thanks for your reply. You have a better knowledge of Greek than I do, what I see is today, the Greek word , smeron, meaning today, this day, this very day. I think the word today is correct it is how we read the sentence and how it fits with what the thief said and when will he be in paradise, and if paradise is part of Hades or the new earth when it is all fulfilled.
Heb. 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: What do we understand the meaning to die/death? Platonism says it is a separation of the soul from the body and the souls go to Hades. If the soul is immortal what is appointed to die?
Luke 16:19-31. Was this a real story or is this a parable He told to people mainly the Pharisees? If we take it as reality, they were judged at death because Lazarus went to Abraham's bosom, and the rich man went to a fiery place of torture. Does scripture support that? Dan. 12:2 Matt. 25:31-34 John 5:28-29 Rev. 20:11-15.
The rich man was aware of where he was and talking and seems they have a body, asking for Lazarus to wet his finger and cool his tongue. Does scripture say we are awake in death? Job 14:10-12 Ecc. 9:5-6. The context of this chapter is the love of money, and stewardship, Jesus was addressing this to the Pharisees, "No servant can serve two masters".
Eph. 4 I know some understand this to mean that when Jesus ascended into heaven, he led a host of captives who ascended into heaven with him. But in Acts 2:29-34 David is still in his grave and has not ascended, would David be left? John 3:13. Does this show Jesus ascended alone?
I will leave it there, I guess it comes down to if we believe our soul is immortal which influences how we understand the scripture. Just some other thoughts, like you said there are probably more understandings. Thanks again.
God bless,
RLW
I can see how you come to this understanding. And yes, I agree that there are other understandings, probably many. I'm sure there are several that would differ from what you and I both shared. It looks as though we have a dilemma here. Jesus says "Today, you will be with me in paradise." So, we would have to examine the word "today" and try and figure out what today means. Your questions "Would Jesus come into his kingdom on earth that day?" and "Did Jesus go to paradise that day?" are valid questions.
Did the King James get it wrong by using the word today? It seems like a valid question to ask as to why Jesus would say "today, you will be with me in paradise" if He knew He would first be in the lower parts of the earth for three days and three nights.
Something else that might be considered as to why Jesus said "today" might be that the very same day He died and went into the lower parts of the earth, He went to a place called Hades which had two compartments. Ephesians Chapter 4 tells us that when Jesus died, that for three days and three nights, He was in the heart of the earth. He was down setting the prisoners free. He was down in Hades on the side where the people were with Abraham. We read about this in the presentation of the Rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31.
Now, I cannot remember where I've read this, but from my studies, I have read some Jewish literature that said Abraham's bosom was synonymous with both heaven and paradise. That is how a Hebrew or Jewish person would describe Abraham's bosom, a place of safety and comfort, paradise like. So, this would make sense as to why Jesus would have said "today, you will be with me in paradise." Paradise (Abraham's bosom) was where Jesus was that day (Today), and the thief was with Him.
But then again, as you say, there can be more interpretations, and I'm sure there are many out there. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this!
God Bless!!!
Verse 4 seems to indicate that this person is near unto death and is further supported by verse 6 where it seems the pit of Sheol is nigh. We see that those in that state are "cut off from thy hand" therefore there is no more mercy from God at that point. We are reminded of Isaiah 38:18 and many other passages which show that the dead will not praise God (verse 10). Furthermore; destruction and forgetfulness also describe the fate of those in hell (verse 11-12). Those things which affected our emotions and desires on earth ( Ecclesiastes 9:5) will not exist as the body returns to the dust. However; the soul lives on and for the unregenerate in conscious torment (see Lazarus and the unnamed rich man ( Luke 16:19-31).
Nonetheless; we must seek His face while He can be found. Job's state wasn't hopeless; and neither is anyone in Christ who truly repents and seeks the Lord. The enemy certainly can have us ensnared in sin; or oppressing us with feelings of hopelessness. We need to confess sin and seek His face; as well as trusting His promises despite circumstances. That is good advice surely in war; famine and other horrendous circumstances that bring us near death as well as seeing death all around us. These passages should remind us to seek those who may be disfigured by disease and to demonstrate God's love through service wherever we can.
The whole of God's word is about ONE thing, THE KINGDOM OF GOD.
You could eliminate the whole New Testament and still come to the truth about THE KINGDOM OF GOD.
Paul and the other apostles can to the truth about the KINGDOM.
They had no New TESTAMENT, they came to TRUTH about the kingdom; from Moses and the PROPHETS, under the anointing of the Holy Spirit, then they penned letters and gospels, under the anointing of the Holy Spirit, that make up the New Testament.
All their writing are just second WITNESS of Moses and the Prophets, including Revelation.
Luke 16:31 ...if they hear not Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one was raised from the dead.
Acts 28:23 ....to whom he expounded and testified THE KINGDOM OF GOD, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and the Prophets, from morning till evening.
The beast of Revelation is in the Prophets, search the scriptures, don't listen to the traditions of MAN.
1 John 2:27 The anointing which you have received of him abideth IN YOU, and you need not that any man teach you; but as the anointing teacheth you ALL THINGS, and is truth, and no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
God Bless YOU!
I don't know your interpretation of it, but if one should say that it is an actual place of eternal torment, then that person has already applied those important rules (maybe unknowingly), that what the Scripture says of it, is certainly a literal place, both the original language, wording & grammar verify this, and other Scriptures support this view. But the one who disregards the rules of interpretation & is focussed only on searching for some spiritual Truth in every verse, may arrive at various conclusions; maybe: 'it is only a figurative expression of God's 'Work'; I have no interest or acceptance of what the Greek has to say about it; I even disregard Jesus' assurance of such a place, believing that He had (or, there is) another meaning for it.' In my experience, those who reject the normal conventions of interpretation, usually have little or no interest in hearing anything else. Why? Because it's not what the Spirit is showing me - I'm learning deeper Truths that others with 'carnal' minds cannot perceive, therefore all must be rejected to get to this 'gold that has to be dug out'.
And we could say the same of Luke 16:19-31, where many say that this was only a parable of Jesus, when this whole account repudiates the intent & meaning of a parable; and of course, if this belief is taken to its end, it would make Jesus a deceiver & a scare-monger. But comfort is falsely taken that this must be a parable giving a spiritual meaning & warning, thus making Jesus true to His Word.
When studying revelation we have to constantly ask ourselves what is the a SYMBOL OF"
The Lamb of God
The firstfruits
The scorpions
The Locust
The horses
The two edged sword
The church
The Book
The sea
The ships
The frogs
The hail
The Plagues
The vials
The heavens
The earth
The temple
The city
The streets
The Gates
The brimstone
The lake of fire
The second death
The fountain
The seals
Revelation has to be taken in the context of this symbols.
Amos 3:7 Surly the Lord God will do NOTHING, but he REVEALETH his secret to his servants the prophets.
The answers are in Mosses and the Prophets.
Luke 16:31 And he said unto them, If they HEAR NOT Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
God Bless You
Are the Prophecies in Revelation and the gospels any different than those in Mosses and the Prophets? Are, or they just a second witness?
There was no brick and mortar churches, no doctrines of those churches, until the apostles founded them.
How did the apostles and first men come to the truth of the KINGDOM OF GOD?
Luke 16:31 ....If they HEAR NOT Mosses and the Prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
Acts 28:23 ....he (Paul) expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Mosses, and out of the Prophets, from morning till evening.
Galatians 1:17 Neither went I (Paul) up to Jerusalem to THEM which were apostles before me, but I went into Arabia (the wilderness) ......Where the Spirit taught him ......
Revelation 12:6 And the WOMAN (the bride of Christ, his church) fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, and there should feed her a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
The disciples were feed by Christ for one thousand two hundred and threescore days, 42 months, 3 1/2 years, you and I are still being feed by that 3 1/2 year ministry, except NOW, Christ is WITHIN US, his second coming; but, we are still in the wilderness being feed.
Revelation 11:11 And after three days and a half (the great tribulation poured out on Christ) the Spirit of LIFE ( I am the Resurrection) from God entered into them ( those of OLD, the law and prophets, the old testament saints) --- Matthew 27:52-53 ---
Isaiah 26:19 ....with my dead body shall they arise .....
There are 2 deaths, 2 resurrections, 2 second comings and 2 judgements, one for the Firstfruits, feast of weeks, and one for the feast of the ingathering, AKA feast of tents, AKA feast of the tabernacles.
The woman, Christ bride, the church, rides the BEAST, and we are told TO COME OUT of here MY PEOPLE.
God Bless You!
It repeatedly from beginning to end continues to teach faith together with obedience to God's ten commandments are a prerequisite to salvation. Everyone in the Bible is judged according to their works. Not according to their faith. Romans 3:31
"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." 1 John 2:4
"He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
King James
Luke 18:18
"And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" Luke 18:19
"And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God."
Luke 18:20
"Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother."
King James
Matthew
5
Matthew 5:17
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."
King James
John
15
John 15:10
"If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love." John 14:15
"If ye love me, keep my commandments."
King James
Luke
13
Luke 13:24
"Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able."
King James
Romans 2:6
"Who will render to every man according to his deeds:"
King JamesRevelation 22:12
"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be."
King James
There is a ton of more verses that could be attached that continue to back up truth.
The main thing is you must read the Bible for yourself because ultimately you are responsible for your own salvation. Trusting what I say or what this person says is not the way to work out your own salvation.
It's wisdom to have anyone trying to volunteer with vulnerable people to, first prove themselves. I believe once you're there showing true love & kindness, hearts & doors should open. GOD can make a way, when there seems to be no way. How many times in life we're met with gatekeepers?.. trying to do good.. & then GOD moves & we're not just in the room but reaching more & doing more than we even expected.
I will be very surprised if you don't have people, even their family members seeking you out to pray for their loved ones & patients very soon. Luke 16:10,