Discuss Luke 17 Page 2

True Believers in Jesus are not appointed to wrath! 1 Thes 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which (delivered) us from the wrath to come. The word (delivered) is #4506; it means to rush or draw (for oneself) rescue. Believers in Jesus are rescued from the wrath to come, which means it has not happened when the church, or elect are called to meet the Lord in the clouds. Jn 3:36 tells us if we believe in the Son we will have everlasting life. But those who believeth not the Son will not see life, but have the wrath of God abideth on them. Romans 5:9 Tells us being now justified by his blood, we shall be (saved) from wrath through him. The word (saved) is #4982; it means "safe" to save, i.e. deliver or protect, preserve, be (made) whole. Remember Luke 17:34-37 where we are told one shall be taken, and the other left. And Wherefore the (body) is, thither will the eagles be gathered together. The word (body) is #4983; it means the body (as a sound whole) "safe" to save, i.e. deliver or protect. The word (body) here has pretty much the same meaning as those who are (saved) from the wrath to come. 1 Thes 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to (wrath) The word (wrath) is #3709; it means violent passion, or [justifiable] abhorrence, by implying punishment, anger, indignation, vengeance, wrath. (God pours out His wrath, His violent passion, His punishment on those non-believers in Jesus Christ spoken of in Jn 3:36 who were left on the earth). Eph 5:6 and Col 3:6 tell us He pours His wrath on the children of disobedience. The word (disobedience) is #543; it means disbelief, (obstinate and rebellious) unbelief. While this violent passion is being poured on the children of disobendence on the earth. True Believers in Jesus were caught up to meet Him in the clouds and taken to the marriage supper of the Lamb. The tribulation period has nothing to do with the wrath of God, they are two very different time periods. Blessings.

Hi Ernie.

Please allow me to correct a mistake I made.

I mentioned to you to take

Luke 17:34-37 and Parallel it with Revelation 19:11-18 Focusing on vs 17. On your way to verse 17 notice verrse 14.

Revelation 19:14.

"And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, CLOTHED IN FINE LINEN, WHITE AND CLEAN.

This is also prophesied in Jude 1:14.

These clothed in fine linen is the same group in

Revelation 19:7-8.

"Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

(8) And to her was granted that SHE SHOULD BE ARRAYED IN FINE LINEN, CLEAN AND WHITE: FOR THE FINE LINEN IS THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF SAINTS.

I left out one of the connecting verses. ( Vs 8.)

These are a few of the connecting verses why we believe the Church comes with Christ on his second coming.

Luke 17:37.

Revelation 19:17.

Jude 1:14.

Revelation 19:7-8.

God bless.

Hi Ernie.

I will give you my view and I will extend to vs 37.

vs 36-37 is where the answer is.

"Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, THITHER WILL THE EAGLES BE GATHERED TOGETHER.

Now parallel it with.

Revelation 19:11-18. "focusing on vs 17."

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

( vs14) And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, CLOTHED IN FINE LINEN, WHITE AND CLEAN.

(Parallels with; Jude 1:14.)

Those clothed in fine linen is the same group in Revelation 19:7.

THIS GROUP IS THE BRIDE OF CHRIST. THE CHURCH!!

15) And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16) And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

17) And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the FOWLS THAT FLY IN THE MIDST OF HEAVEN, COME AND GATHER YOURSELVES TOGETHER unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

THIS GROUP IS TAKEN FOR JUDGMENT.

This is after the tribulation and the Church comes with him, They were raptured atleast 7 years prior.

Those left goes on into the Millennium. Those taken, Judgment as well in Matthew 24.

God bless.

Hello Adam.

We can have assurance from the account of Noah and from the passing over of the Israelites so as they were not afflicted with the plagues of Egypt nor the death of the firstborn. We can rest in God knowing how He parted the Red Sea to have the Israelites pass through on dry land and how God delivered the enemies in Canaan into the hands of the Israelites when the nation entered the promised land to possess all it as God promised (see Joshua 21:43) God fulfilled all fo the promised He had made to the Israelites ( Joshua 23:15)

God is faithful and able to preserve us or rescue us or make us stand in the day of trouble. But we also must remember that our Lord and Paul and Peter said that we will suffer also, be persecuted, arrested, tried legally, and martyred for His Name's sake. Jesus said we would be hated by men just as they hated himself. We should pray for God to prepare us for such hardships that He may allow us to experience. We certainly should pray that we will hold fast in the face of martyrdom.

The fire that brings destruction spoken of in Peter's epistles is pretty disturbing to consider, but I think this firs is intended for the evil unbelievers, not for the believers. When Jesus returns once again with a shout, with the trumpet call, with the voice of an archangel, with a tempest like lightening, with exceeding brightness and manifest glory, we will look up, as He instructs us in Luke 21:28 for our redemption is come. we will be changed (if alive at this time) or resurrrected, if we have died. At that time, we will be glorified and can no longer be harmed by anything that comes upon the earth! Hallelujah!

Adam, I will pray for you as you seek to find out the truth of Scriptures concerning the end times, as I pray that for myself, too.

I plan to believe everything that is plainly and explicitly taught in Scripture concerning the return of Christ and what happens before that, and also not readily embrace ideas that are not.

Brother Adam:

2 Peter 3:7

Brother David has made several comments about God's words being parables.

You have said God's words are often metaphors.

Revelation says his words are symbols.

2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and earth ....

There are LITERAL heavens and earth; but, they are also metaphors and symbols in a parable.

heaven and earth are MAN, earth being the carnal form of man where deception rules, heaven being the born again man where truth and life rule.

We are the GARDEN OF (eden) GOD where the ONE TREE that bears BOTH the knowledge of GOOD and EVIL is in the MIDST thereof.

Man; made of EARTH (dust), has to be destroyed, and become a creation of Spirit, the new heaven and new earth.

2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and earth, which are now, by the SAME WORD (that made them earth) are keep in store (since the day or resurrection) reserved unto fire against the day of JUDGEMENT ...

For you and I and all others alive at this given moment; we are being JUDGED by the written word's of God, if you don't believe his words: DEATH and the GRAVE; if you believe HIS WORDS, you become a SON OF GOD.

Christ is THE WORD OF JUDGEMENT, and the FIRE (a metaphor and symbol) that does the JUDGING.

Judges 6:21 And the angel of the Lord (Christ) put forth the end of the staff that was in his hand, and touch the FLESH (dust of the earth) and the unleavened cakes; and there rose up FIRE out of the ROCK (symbolic of Christ) and CONSUMED the FLESH (dust of the earth) and unleavened cakes ......

Christ was the FIRE in the bush in the wilderness, he was the ROCK in the wilderness.

Hebrews 12:29 Our God is a CONSUMING FIRE

Christ is THE WORD

Your being JUDGED NOW BY the WORD and FIRE, and if you will JUDGE YOURSELF NOW; by God's words, you want be judged with the world.

1 Corinthians 11:31 If we would judge ourselves NOW, we should not be judged.

John 12:48 .... the words I have spoken (from Genesis thru Revelation), the same will judge him .....

God Bless YOU!

Ernie:

We have to understand the difference between taken and left.

Sin (unbelief) governs OUR FLESH, the wages of SIN (unbelief) is death, the "GIFT" of belief is eternal LIFE.

So man is either consumed by unbelief, and goes to the grave, to await the second resurrection: or he believes he and Christ were resurrected TOGETHER; becoming ONE NEW CREATION, and will NEVER SEE DEATH, because he has ALREADY DIED on the CROSS with CHRIST.

ONE will be TAKEN in DEATH, and go to the grave: ONE will be LEFT, never to SEE DEATH, dwelling in the presence of GOD.

Luke 20:36 Neither can they DIED ANYMORE (you DIED with Christ): for THEY (the one's LEFT, and will never see the grave) are EQUAL unto the angels (omnipresent, glorified bodies); and are the children of God (God can't die), being the children of (Christ's) RESURRECTION.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who hath PART in the first (Christ's) resurrection, on such the second death hath NO POWER ...

God Bless YOU!

Hi Ernie, I usually avoid end times discussions as its not a salvation issue and is mostly speculation and sometimes unfruitful, but am happy to share my current opinion. For years I assumed the good were raptured and those that remain will face tribulation- perhaps including fire that destroys the earth before it is made anew. The Left Behind book/movie series depicts it this way.

However, someone on this forum shared evidence for another view and it seemed compelling. I will need to research more and find those verses, but there is support for the wicked to be the ones raptured. Romans 8.21.

In this section of Luke 17:32-33 it says to remember Lot's wife and says who ever wants to keep their life will lose it, etc. It is phrased in a way where wicked may be the ones losing their life before Christ followers. Then Jesus appears and those asleep in the grave will rise and meet Jesus in the air, then judgment day before eternal life. That is the sequence of events as I currently understand them based on the scripture evidence I've seen. What I'm uncertain in how it fits its destroying the earth by fire. 2 Peter 3:7. For this to fit, if wicked are destroyed first with fire, it would seem to take a miracle to not hurt the followers, or a selective fire of some kind. God bless.

Luke 17-34 thru 36. Is it the Christian or the wicked that is taken? Are there other scriptures that back your answer?

(Part-1):

Jimbob,

As for the reason for me using the word vulture instead of eagle, you are correct in saying that the KJV says eagle. Many other English translations use the word vulture which would be a better translation and make more sense. We are told that they will come and eat the flesh of the dead carcasses. Eagles kill their prey. They do not feed on dead carcasses. Vultures feed on dead flesh. Revelation 19:21 says fowls. The Textus Receptus used the word ORNEA which translates to birds. So, this does not tell us whether it is an eagle or a vulture. However, vulture would seem correct.

Now when I look at Luke 17:37 in the Greek Interlinear Bible, the word used which you properly gave is G105 (AETOI). However, the Greek Interlinear says vulture, not eagle. And the word body in the same verse (SOMA) could mean either a living body, or a dead body or corpse. So, in Luke 17:37, it would make more sense that it is talking about dead carcasses that the vulture will come and feast on.

I do agree that the church is the body of Christ, but we are not the body that these birds will be feasting on. That's why I say that this "body" that is taken is one who is taken into judgment, into that great battle that will take place when Christ comes back. And those ones who are taken will all be killed, and the vultures will come and feed on their carcasses.

And yes, I agree that the church will be at the marriage supper in heaven while the wrath of God is being poured out on the earth. And I also would agree that once the tribulation period has ended, we (the church) come back with Christ at His second coming. I guess I should try and get over my fear of riding horses!

Blessings to you!!!

Brother Spencer,

Thank you for sharing this piece of scripture from Matthew Chapter 24. This section ( Matthew 24:37-41) gives us the preconditions to the coming of Christ.

You may already know this, but after God shut the door on the ark, how long was it until it started raining? One week. That is prophecy!

After the door was shut, they still didn't know it. That is why it says they didn't know it until the flood came. The flood came and took them all away. It was life as usual until it came, and it was sudden, and it was quick, and it was unexpected. Matthew 24:39 tells us that it will be the same prior to Christ's second coming.

In Matthew 24:40-41, with the one taken and the other left, there are different views about two in the field, one is taken, one is left. Where does the one go that is taken? We know where the one that is left is, but what about the one that is taken?

Some say it's taken into judgment (which is what I think you and I both believe) and some say it's for salvation, a person is taken saved. I have heard others say it's one of these gatherings, the Lord gathering His people from the four corners of the earth.

But in Luke's account ( Luke 17:37), it tells us that they are taken into judgment. They are drawn into the Valley of Megiddo for the battle of Armageddon.



I say this because as I go through Revelation, I see that God is the one that draws the people and the armies into the valley of Megiddo to fight against Him when He comes.

In Luke 17:37, when the disciples asked Jesus where the one taken would be, because they said "Where, Lord?"

Jesus says "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the vultures be gathered together. He is talking about that day when people are going to gather together in the Valley outside of Jerusalem to fight against Christ at His coming. Remember the birds are going to be called in to feed on their carcasses. These people (the one taken) have been drawn out into the battle.

God bless!

Adam:

The word says you and I died on the cross with Christ, Did you PHYSICALLY see your death happen?

I Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are ALIVE ----You were MADE ALIVE by Christ resurrection ---- an REMAIN (to never see death) shall be caught up (raptured) together with them (that were caught up before you) in the clouds (the cloud is a symbol of God's presence) to meet the Lord in the air (his omnipresence), so shall be every be with the Lord ( in his omnipresence).

Luke 17:35 Two women shall be grinding together ---they could have been working together for years; and each died, maybe at different times, scripture does't say, ONE was translated in the presence of God because she believed God's words ---- and the other LEFT ---she died not believing God's word and went to the grave to await the second resurrection.

The only thing you PHYSICALLY SAW was they were both buried, you didn't see which was take and the other left.

How many funerals have you been to, were they taken or left? only God knows.

The chosen are RAPTURED at the time they depart there bodies of DUST.

Isaiah 27:12 ....and I will gather you ONE by ONE, O ye children of (the promised) Israel.

God BLESS YOU!

Some of these comments might be just trolling aimed to provoke a reaction out of people. I hope that is not the intent here.

The rapture is clearly physical because the Bible describes it physically.

"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." 1 Thessalonians 4:17 KJV

"Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left." Luke 17:35 KJV

These are specific physical examples.

Likewise, Jesus dying on the cross physically happened. If anyone claims that didn't actually happen but was only a spiritual or metaphor then that would be a lie and anyone spreading lies will have to face and explain that before God on judgment day.

Do not be like the preterists, who do not believe in God and his report but turn to themselves and the truth to fables. God has declared the beginning of the end and the end of this age (that is the new beginning; with the new heaven and the new earth). This shall be an everlasting kingdom, and nothing shall enter into it that defiles it. And there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor pain, for these former things are passed away. "And he said to me: "It is done! I am Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give freely from the fountain of the water of life. He that overcometh shall inherit all things, and I will be his God, and he shall be my son." - [ Revelation 21:6-7]

And this is true because it has been given to us in these last days according to the testimony of the holy angels and John, but it is his word that is faithful and true.

Expect no less, for truthfully the kingdom of heaven is not yet established here on the earth. Romans 14:17 by definition; God's kingdom is spiritual; Righteousness, joy, peace in the Holy Spirit, not mead and drink.

Luke 17:20-21; "And when he was asked by the scribes and the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God would come, he answered them, saying, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor shall they say, Look here or look there! for behold, the kingdom of God is within you." (We cannot see it but is within us now; as we already know).

Appart from this, The kingdom of heaven is physical. Be it on earth or in heaven.

John the Baptist always preached; "The kingdom of heaven is near!" Jesus also said that the Jews should repent, because the kingdom of heaven is near and was, for Jesus himself had come down, in so manner that they might know the times and the seasons and so that they would seek to know him.

Beloved, the prayer of a righteous man works with great power. James 5:16. Have you received the forgiveness of sins? Believe in Jesus Christ and you will be righteous. That is all that He God the Father Himself expects us to believe in Jesus not only Jesus but also Christ. Acts 16:31 Then you also get to experience Heaven on Earth. For the kingdom of God dwells in us. Luke 17:21

We face temptations on a daily basis, it becomes like something you know you shouldn't do, then you do it anyway. Then the question is what is it dear to you. One can well imagine that this is not a good thing. It is important to distinguish between Spirit, Soul and body. Run to Jesus an pray for help.

The body has its everyday routine. Then we can expand this into many illegal things. If it is the meat that tempts us, we only have one choice. Run to Jesus, pray for it to go away. Then it also means that you have to capture every thought that comes up, after this pray of help. So that you don't think about it ever again

There is a difference here. The one who is a child, the one who is young, and the one who is old. Think about it. The Lord does not expect a child to drive a car. If there is anyone who cares for us all, it is the Lord. Think about the smallest little thing He is with. He is also involved in the big things. As Gods word said, the kingdom of God is within us who believe.

We learn as we go. We separate things from good and bad as we have been taught to do so. People are so different. Some hear well and others don't. This is completely individual. Thank God the Father for it is He who has made us this way.

And if our conscience says that what we are doing is wrong. May we sincerely ask for forgiveness and learn from it as best we can. Good luck on your journey towards Sanctification. Love u in Christ.

Hint: Try 1 day that suits and keep the thought of the Lord Jesus. Only on Him, see what's coming. He tells you good things. It will help you a lot and not think on other.

Hi Jimbob,

I feel I have intruded on you and Chris, forgive me if I have.

I will just touch on Matt. 24:40-41. I understand Matt. 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 are twofold, parts for the disciples for instruction for what they would endure and things leading up to the destruction of the temple and also for who will be living at the end times. In context of the chapter, we see "the coming of the Son of man." three times in this chapter verses 27, 37, and 39.

Matt. 24:27 He will be seen coming as Rev. 1:7. In Matt. 24:29:31 after the tribulation the Son of man coming with power and great glory. Rev. 19:11-16, similar to Joel 2:11, Joel 3:13-17 Zechariah 14:1-9. My understanding this is about the Second Coming of Christ.

In Matt. 24:36 we do not know when and we must be ready, we do not know when our death will be, it could be now. Jesus second coming is after the tribulation of the beast, we must be ready to not be tempted and be strong in our faith to not take the mark to save this flesh. Luke covers Matt.24 40-41 and just before, he adds this. Matt. 16:25 Mk. 8:35

Luke 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it, and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. God has said He will keep us from this, Rev. 3:10, but for those people who know the truth and refuse to receive it, He will send a delusion, 2 Thes. 2:11-12

In Matt. 24:37-39 as the days of Noah so shall also be the coming of the Son of man, the ones taken away in Noah's time were wicked. Matt.24:40-41 Why would it be the opposite of Noah's time? It is like the wheat and the tares at the end the ones taken will be burned in the lake of fire and the righteous will be left. At Jesus's return, the ones taken before the end will be where the eagles are, Luke 17:37 Ezek. 39:17-20 Rev. 19:17-21 the battle of Armageddon.

This is my understanding you may disagree and that is ok. Those in the first resurrection reign with Jesus on earth and there are only two resurrections.

God bless,

RLW

@ Dennis Giacomino and @ Jesse Over

There is a difference between the Kingdom of God (Christ inside you) and the Kingdom of Heaven (a place to come on earth). Please view Robert Breaker video on you tube labeled The Kingdom of God vs The Kingdom of Heaven for in depth Bible scripture.

Matthew 6:33 (keyword is FIRST... implying there is something to follow - second)

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you."

You can not "see" or "observe" the Kingdom of God.

Luke 17:20

And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

Matthew 3:2 "And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

Matthew 7:21 (Heaven is a place)

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Dear Musonda Jonathan in peace, I can't quite understand what you mean. What expectations?

Luke 17:20-37 Tonight I pray that these words come alive for you. So that you become enlightened and receive the knowledge and words of wisdom from the Lord Jesus Christ, Amen.

Always be happy, and Contented for you have the kingdom of God in you. Here on earth in mortality Hallelujah Amen God is good. Love you in Christ.

Rick Paulette,

I believe the LORD is working in your soul. You're feeling the need to ask help for the injuries of others, you're acknowledging you've caused. That's turning you're heart to repentance. That's a good step in the right direction. I referenced the scripture Matthew 25:31-46. However today I felt led to lead you towards salvation. The justification you've given doesn't fix the guilt, nor pain. Deuteronomy 23:18,

The scripture says 1John 1:9, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." reading in context, please read 1John 1, 1John 2, whole chapters. It starts with acknowledging Jesus came in the flesh, as the Christ, (Messiah, promised redeemer) savior John 3:16-21, speaking to GOD yourself, in prayer. Matthew 6, Matthew 26:41, Luke 18:9-14,

Luke 19:1-10, Proverbs 16:8, Psalms 37:16, notice Psalms 37 entire chapter. Proverbs 15:16, Luke 17:1,2, James 4, Romans 10:17,

Hopefully you will ask for a better way of life, Paul once named Saul had a mighty calling after Jesus encountered him. Acts 22,

Hopefully these help for new decisions 2Corinthians 5:17

Gi Gi Gbu But there is a simple way we can know without a doubt who is of God and who is not...You have stated your position several times in the pass that God cannot multiply himself....We cannot be Gods is your postion..As others in this forum...Remember ..So now let me have your attention for just a sec...And i love ya sweety in the Lord...But listen Jesus tells us to whom the word came it made them Gods... John 10:35...And the scripture cannot be broken....But you don't believe that as some others in this forum...And in Psalms :82:6 I have said ye are Gods ....Impling that Jesus can multiply very God in us via his seeds his words...They don't call him the bridegroom for nothin...Thats y he has to know us. That N.C...The words in the book that he wrote with his own blood....And Jesus said the very Kingdom of God is gonna be with in you...Not here nor there but WITHIN you... Luke 17:21....So plz tell me sister Gi-Gi how can the Kingdom of God be with in us...And we not be Gods...So ya can readily and easily see who is of God and who is not....Its simply them that believe his words...But them that don't believe his words are the reprobates...And in his prayer he prayed that God wd make them 1 John 17 :21..There wd be no way we cd be made 1 with God Almighty ( the marriage ) and we not be Gods...And don't give me that upper case lower case thing...Simply b/c there is no upper case or lower case in Hebrew.... Ephesians 5:30...plainly tells us we are gonna be made bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh....So that does away with the lower case and upper case analogy....Its gonna be a Genuine Marriage in the spiritual realm...As the bridegroon rejoices over the bride so shall thy God rejoice over thee... Isaiah 62:5....GBU Gi-Gi...And have a good week end...

The Bible talks about the rapture in the following verses. Beware of anyone trying to convince you it isn't there:

1 Thessalonians 4:17 - Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Matthew 24:40-41

Luke 17:35

Revelation 3:10

1 Corinthians 15:51-52

John 14:3

Mark 13:32 says not even Jesus knows the day of when the end will be. So, be ready.

Holy Spirit (conclusion)

In the end in Armageddon and the final judgment at the end of the Millennium Kingdom there will be two factions; the armies of Christ and those of Antichrist (or Satan himself at the very end). There is an inexorable move there with the angels of God being messengers and protectors at times of God's people and the demons guiding at an accellerating rate towards the final destruction of men's souls. Again; I feel it is prudent and necessary to say that whatever side you are on; either God is your Father or Satan.

It is that bad; and of course it ties in with the fact that we either are living in and for sin; or for the Lord. The difference; of course is that there is no variableness of shadow with God ( James 1:17). God is truth and Satan the father of lies. These are clear facts from scripture.

There have been tracts such as the old Campus Crusade 4 points which emphasize how a train starts with the engine than goes to the caboose. That is; there is a logical sequence for us to be saved (4 spiritual laws). Part of it says that we are not to rely on feelings. I am not in total agreement with the more Arminian approach as compared to say "Chapel Library" Gospel tracts.

But I will say the point is well said in regard to emotions. We need to be cautious; of course if indeed there is some guilt from sin that we need to confess. There are many days; however when we go on with our duty as soldiers ( 2 Tim. 2:4). We are "unworthy servants" who don't need to be praised ( Luke 17:10). This doesn't change God's love for us; of course but it indicates that we have such a great debt we cannot pay for what He did for us on the cross. Remind yourself of that the next time Satan is speaking to you through one of his minions; that what Christ did defeated him; and was too precious for anything he has to offer. Again; in context the name of Jesus is a powerful weapon; but those seeking some power trip without submission will fail.

Conclusion New Years Resolution

5. Love: Agape-Unconditional. We can't find such a resource in our tool box in our own strength. Go ahead and try and let me know how it works for you. People have; sadly referred to God's love as "reckless"; I will leave out the particular artist that comes to mind with such language...

We are in a feckless world; and the fact that the love of many will grow cold ( Matt. 24:12) certainly extends into the professing church as we see the warning to the Ephesian church ( Rev. 2:4). It is good to be looking for love in the RIGHT places; but sadly many are obsessed with the wrong places; people and situations. In the Body of believers we are commanded to love one another( John 13:34) and of course "they shall know we are Christians by our love (next verse John 13:35). The attributes of love are found in 1 Cor. 13. Our affections need to be grounded there in the fellowship of the saints and our own relationship with the Lord. There are some like myself that I know who have abstained from television for a number of years now. I am living with my parents so watch it sometimes but it is hard to decide when to walk away. Hopefully; we can have a healthy relationship with our cell phone as well as the amount of time on social media or even watching the news. There is much to be avoided with the fear today at epidemic levels; and of course "true love casts out fear." ( 1 John 4:17-18). It is more than for us but for our WITNESS that we avoid having our minds filled with distractions. People will see in our eyes and countenance that we are anchored in Him as Hebrews 6:19 states. We don't need to tell people so much how committed we are they can tell; and let their love or hate for us be dictated by our chastity; and reverence of the Lord Jesus as our Savior and Master.

We are; of course "unworthy servants" ( Luke 17:7-10) along with friends of God ( John 15:15). A healthy balance is good to ponder this upcoming New Year

AMEN

Amen Giannis.

Perhaps this verse says the same.

Luke 17:7-10.

Ephesians 1:14. The concept of the Kinsman-Redeemer was in the Book of Ruth; as to Boaz obtaining Ruth as part of his inheritance; or you could say "property". The concept of ownership is foreign in today's culture in terms of slavery; however we should look at verses such as Luke 17:10 on us being "unworthy servants" when we do what we are told. With the story of Ruth she was from a Gentile origin; and her sister Orpha decided to abandon Naomi when she told her to go back to her people (the Moabites). Apparently Ruth's first husband was an Israelite but he had died. Ruth hanging on despite Naomi asking her to go back reminds me somewhat of the tenacity of the Gentile woman asking for healing in Matthew 15:26. The colloquialism Christ used was of the dogs; yet she was commended for her faith.

Obviously; Christ redeemed us as His bride from among all mankind according to the Ephesians quote and this is mentioned in many other verses (Google search is always very helpful). As Boaz brought value to Ruth by marrying her and continuing the lineage of Naomi's family we are adopted as sons ( Romans 8:14-17). God took us; worthless sinners hopelessly lost and His enemies and took on our sin defeating it with His blood sacrifice once and for all at the Cross. He purchased us and it even pleased God to crush Him to accomplish this ( Isaiah 53:10). God's love therefore transcends our own as we would scarcely die for a righteous man let alone a wicked one (according to human standards) according to Romans 5:7.

Now that we are part of His family; we also will recieve crowns as a reward for faithfulness ( James 1:12 etc). We shall rule and reign with Him ( Matthew 19:28-29) but notice the caviat; "if we suffer for Him". We are warned in Revelation 3:11 about losing our reward; that is not a salvation issue. However; we need to make sure that we are producing fruit "meet of repentance" ( Acts 26:20). If He lives within us we are transformed and a new man.

Gigi,

Where are the 25 billion believers that ever lived going to fit on earth? What about God's other people who are true lovers of God, will they not suffer a mortal death, too? Wouldn't you need a new earth and new heaven to accommodate such a large number of people? Also, if Christians are raptured, that puts the doctrine in direct conflict with Hebrews 9:27.

Ezekiel 21:1-4 describes Israels visitation; both good and bad people are taken (killed). No rapture.

Luke 17:34-37 The disciples ask Jesus where the "taken" people go? Jesus says the bodies will be where vultures circle. They are not raptured, they are dead.

The rapture isn't Biblical doctrine, you adopted it along the way. It's popular when there's a shortage of sound solutions, and chances are you wouldn't have settled on that doctrine on your own. The "rapture" was made popular by a 15 year old girl, Margaret McDonald. Study the topic before answering, I can wait a few days. I really want you to focus in on the subject, take notes. We're going to use scripture and logic to iron this out.

Thank you.

Richard,

I let the Bible define itself, simple, or risk compounding errors.

The last week (7 years) of 70 weeks is a 2,000 year old power prophesy between Christ and the man of sin (anti-christ).

Daniel 9:26-27 Jesus had the first 3.5 years of absolute power, and was cut off (crucified). At the sixth trumpet, when anti-christ strikes, he too will have 3.5 years of absolute power, between the sixth and seventh trumpets. In the "midst of the week" he will deliver the abomination of desolation to US NATO & Israel, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, falling away.

"the last half of the Tribulation lasting 1260 days is" = The GREAT tribulation, Matthew 24:15, the sixth trumpet strike on Israel (whole house).

There is no rapture, it's a lie. We are all appointed one death, Hebrews 9:27. Look what Ezekiel said about the day of the Lord deaths: Ezekiel 21:1-5. Verse 4: Both the righteous and the wicked die!!! What did Jesus say about it? Luke 17:34-37, He's asked where do the people go? He answers, 'wherever the body is, so will the vultures be'. They are part of the 2.6 billion dead, Revelation 9:18, from the GREAT tribulation. The 1st resurrection is at the seventh trumpet, NOT before.

Revelation 13. Who are the two beasts?

Discussion on God's love.

Much of today's talk is of "falling in love" with Christ. We need to carefully examine the character and nature of the Godhead before attaching human; emotional or seemingly romantic sentiments on the Creator and Judge; Lord; Savior and Master.

There is no root in human nature; i.e. the flesh which desires God; in fact we are at enmity with Him in our carnal state and in fact enemies of God ( Romans 5:10). The fact that there is contention between the flesh and Spirit ( Galatians 5:17); and vice versa.

It is only in dying to self where we can submit to His authority; and the source of the life within us comes from heavenly places ( Galatians 2:20). The closest we could say about a human relationship is that we submit to each other; or sacrifice our lives.

Apart from Christ; we have two sinners that are by the grace of God involved (if married) in a covenant with God where if allowed in a best case scenario the individuals will finally be broken enough to realize that the Lord is the only thing that can change their selfish interest and natures. Any human sentiment is based on self satisfaction and or gratification which at best is a skewed shadow of God's love. This is also illustrated in Christ's story of how even us "being evil" bring good gifts to our kids. ( Matthew 7:11). We are also "unworthy servants" if we do what is expected ( Luke 17:10).

There are those who would at least put on a show of outward appearance of kindness; generousity; and self sacrifice. Apart from Christ; we can only say that the Lord is using these individuals to meet earthly needs as well as those of believers in His Providence. It is only by His grace that we would want to take on the nature of Christ; a "man of sorrows' ( Isaiah 53:3); as well as dying to self daily; carrying our cross and truly being a disciple and counting the cost. And today's Christian industries of entertainment often appeal the flesh; and have weak at best doctrines to live by.

Yes, & Amos 8:4-7, ; other places also

Luke 17:2, Matthew 18:6,10, Mark 9:42,

There are many "numbers" being toss about with no Biblical reference: 7000 being the elected Jews? Acts 2 was used, but only 3000 were saved and baptized v41. Later in the same chapter many were saved, however no exact number v47 "and the LORD added to the church daily such as should be saved."

A reference was made to Revelation 7, but even there John writes of the 144,000; 12,000 from each tribe.

I found from 1 Kings 19: 18: GOD reminds Elijah "...yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Ball, and every mouth which hath not kissed him."

GOD to shine HIS face and bless all on this forum. HIS countenance to be great upon all the saints and give you peace.

Let us pray for salvation of our leadership and the lost and confused. May we put first the desire of the LORD.

Matthew 28: 18-20; 2 Peter 3:9; Titus 2: 13- 15; 1 John 5:3

October 25, 2022

Hello Spencer

I haven't got much time to write a detailed comment, so:

Luke 17:20-21

"And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."

The Kingdom of God or of Heaven (only Matthew uses the term Kingdom of Heaven, which actually doesn't alter anything) begins within us since it is God who is our King and His rules that we obey. But after the second coming of Jesus Chist there will be a literal Kingdom on (the new) earth that God is going to create (also in the millenium).

How does one enters that Kingdom (the spiritual and the literal)?

John 3:5

"Jesus answered (to Nicodemus), Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

The greek for Gospel is Evagelion, it means Good News, the good news of salvation of mankind through the sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ. This is unique, it hasn't changed and will never change. The same good news were preached by Jesus to Hebrews, the same by the disciples to the gentiles, till nowadays. I think that is a cornerstone doctrine for all christian churches (denominations), or for the majority of them. .

GBU