Discuss Luke 5 Page 2

This morning I thought more on Lazarus & the parable of Lazarus, in thinking about it: maybe the parable/story was also about how the "Rich" in scriptural knowledge, not sharing or helping while Lazarus had "wounds the dogs would._." alone in his suffering, while the other had historical words of hope, healing, redemption, deliverance.

Just thinking: even though Lazarus in real life may not have been financially poor, his sister had been tormented by 7 demons, in front of the ' religious ' for they judged her openly, Lazarus who dwelt with his sister/s suffered.

Jesus walks in, delivers, redeems, forgives, restores & teaches GOD's words. Mark 16:9, Luke 5:17, Luke 5:29-32, Mark 2:14-17, Matthew 9:10-13, Luke 8:2, Mark 16:9,

John 11:2, John 12:1-11, Luke 7:36-50, Luke 8:2, believing Mary to be Mary Madgelene, & reading John 11:2, (as the only time Jesus feet were anointed with oil, & wiped by a Mary's hair)

Luke 16, interestingly in the Parable/story the "rich" man cried "Father Abraham, have mercy._.._" & "if they hear not Moses an the Prophets._."

John 11, & John 12,

Ephesians 3:9 and John 8:58 are two good places to start. These show Christ's part in the Creation along with the Father; and His "I AM" status as God existing before Abraham. If we refer to Him as the "Son of God" then the capital letter "S" indicates acknowledgement of Deity. We also see that the Holy Spirit; which is God and Christ dwelling with us ( John 14:23) is promised to remind us of sin; righteousness and judgment to come ( John 16:8).

There are other verses throughout scripture; starting with the "Elohim" in Genesis where man is said to be made in "our image" ( Genesis 1:26); other verses in Psalms about the presence of the Spirit or Christ ( Proverbs 8) since the beginning further prove this point. 1 Peter 1:2 shows all 3 parts of the Godhead; and that is repeated many other places. Perhaps the greatest proof to many is Isaiah 53 which mentions clearly that "God is with us". It is prophetic of Christ being "King of Kings" along with His sufferings and deity. It is only by divine revelation that Christ is known as being Lord and worshipped as Christ stated to Peter in Matthew 16:17. It is only by the Holy Spirit that Christ can be acknowledged (or fully understood) as coming in the flesh and any other spirit that says he didn't is not from God ( 1 John 4:2).

Truly; the righteousness of God coming in the form of a man was the only thing that could forgive us since the fall. He had to be as the second Adam ( 1 Cor. 15:45). The completion of this is the Rapture and or resurrection where we shall be in a glorified body! What is most sobering is that although He is the first of the Firstfruits risen from the dead; He alone will bear the scars as Psalm 22:16 states that they have "pierced His hands and feet." The hatred of the Pharisees was that He claimed to be God forgiving men's sins ( Luke 5:21). Hopefully this is a good start in your search for an answer to your question.

Leave it to man to complicate what Jesus told us,"It's so simple a child can understand."

Hi Rick,

I don't believe that the Greek word for baptize was supposed to mean something else, so someone can feel off the hook from being baptized. I don't believe that just because someone found another Greek word they prefer that people are somehow free of Jesus's commands to be baptized. Jesus talked about water baptism, baptized people, and His disciples were then called to baptize in water to fulfill the command. It says it plenty of times in the Bible.

The Bible says to repent and confess:

"I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance" Luke 5:32

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:9

When God says something and man says something different, I believe God's Word over man's word. The gospel isn't complicated and doesn't take Greek or Hebrew scholars to understand but a desire to seek and follow God. I've noticed on many occasions when someone finds something they aren't comfortable with in the Bible, they go to the Hebrew/Greek and try to make it mean something other than what it means. But its already translated and already means what it says.

God bless...

Bro Dan Jesus Christ was water baptized to fulfill all righteousness under the law which is why after he healed

many people he told them to present themselves in the temple and offer the offering in the old testament example

Luke 5:12-14, Mathew 8:1-4 Mark 1:40-41, luke 17:12-16 under the law of moses because their backgrounds were

Judean. When he healed Gentiles he never made that a point to say go to temple or see priest , the centurions servants

son is a perfect example he the centurion said you say it I believe it!. The condition was always believing because if

you don't believe you can't receive.

Thank you Marie,

Good observations.

I see several points:

One, God listens to those who ask for healing two: some people do not have an inner sense of God and they want things demonstrated publicly. Then they failed to want to believe them

Three: God can be very generous just as he was in pointing out to the disciples to try dipping their nets one more time

four: God is very generous to us each day and when we take time to be grateful to God and other people I life changes and we become empowered.

Daniel 10:3,

2 Chronicles 20:1-4, Ezra 8:21-22, Esther 3: , Esther 4:1,3,7,8,11,14,16, Isaiah 58:6-14, Jeremiah 36:7-10, Joel 1:12-15, Joel 2:15,

Jonah 3:3-6,

Matthew 6:16-18, Matthew 9:14-15, Mark 2:18-20, Luke 5:33-35,

I believe Judas will go to hell, because he betrayed Jesus to help murder him for profit. This is like blasphemy and turning his back on Jesus. Peter denied Jesus, which might also be a form of blasphemy, however, I believe Jesus forgave him through a special circumstance- asking if he loved Him three times.

People are deceived if they believe everyone goes to heaven regardless of how much sick and vile evil they commit against God, like Hitler mass murdering people. Jesus already said most people will go to hell. Just read the gospels and his many parables. They are all similar themes- warning after warning.

Jesus died for everyone, but forgiveness is contingent upon someone humbling themselves, repenting, confessing, believing, declaring Jesus is Lord and accepting the gift. Acts 2:38 - this requires an action. It doesn't say 'Do nothing and ye shall receive the gift' or 'Keep sinning as much as you want...' Here's another action requirement: repentance: Luke 5:32. Here's another confessing: 1 John 1:9.

Romans 10:9 - notice the "If..." People don't say "if" unless it's conditional. Salvation is conditional.

This says to believe: 1 John 5:13. It doesn't say 'not believing is totally fine.' Romans 12:2 - this says to be transformed and to not conform to the world. That's a big bummer for those hoping for a free get out of hell free card to enjoy a lifetime of sin and guilty pleasures. Look at this: John 8:11 and even this: James 2:26. Another: James 4:6. Reading the Bible for what it is paints a very different picture than the little summaries people like to spread around. People who ignore all the Bible's teachings and do whatever they want should be afraid for their soul: Luke 12:5. God bless.

Love this acted out on The Chosen TV show

Reply to - Nancy Morgan on 1 Corinthians 3

Matthew 9:12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.

Luke 5:31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.

Luke 8:43 And a woman having an issue of blood twelve years, which had spent all her living upon physicians, neither could be healed of any,

Luke 8:48 And he said unto her, Daughter, be of good comfort: thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace.

I have had my shots

Hi Pauline. This story is found in Luke 15:11-32 & here you will see the "exact wording" of this account. But if you are seeking the use of the word 'prodigal', then it is not found in the Bible. 'Prodigal' is just an English word (as Trinity or Rapture are not in the Bible) but 'Prodigal' is correctly used to illustrate the nature of the son who took his inheritance from his father early, went into a distant country & wasted all of it in "riotous living". Instead, of maybe buying or building up a business & properly investing his good fortune, he 'lived it up' & may have even gambled it away. That's the negative meaning of a 'prodigal', of which this story represents. There is also a positive meaning for that word, which is the opposite: being lavish or generous, as being liberal with praise of someone or of resources, but the son in that parable was certainly not one of these.

Context

Luke 15:1-7

Luke 15:11-32 this is the story referred to as 'prodigal son'

I want to know exact wording prodigal son.

Hi Jon,

In addition to prayer, God also wants us to help ourselves. Here's some scripture for you.

Colossians 4:14 Luke, the beloved physician, and Demas, greet you.

Luke 4:23 And he said unto them, Ye will surely say unto me this proverb, Physician, heal thyself: whatsoever we have heard done in Capernaum, do also here in thy country.

Jeremiah 8:22 Is there no balm in Gilead; is there no physician there? why then is not the health of the daughter of my people recovered?

Luke 5:31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.

Matthew 9:12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.

Mark 2:17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repent

God provides mankind with gifted minds in a multitude of various fields, including Medicine, Pharmacy, and other varied fields including psychology: the science or study of the mind and behavior. God provides us with these people that can help and cure, or at least help us to manage our health, both physically and mentally.

A wise person will not rule out a service provider based on their religious belief or lack of. That's like turning down emergency bypass heart surgery because the doctor might be an unbeliever. Could be the greatest heart surgeon of all time, but not doing it. Can't let you fix the hole in my roof because you're not a christian.

Be wise, and humble and look at all your options, including prayer.

God Bless.

Dgjot I don't believe your fear is Godly, 2 Timothy 1:7 For God has not given us the Spirit of fear but of power and love and a sound mind. The word fear is the word deilia which means timidity, we live in the age of grace that's not license to sin, in contrast in Hebrews 4: 16 Let us therefore come boldly or fearlessly no timidity unto the throne of grace that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need. A great record of Gods love displayed through jesus christ in luke 5:4 Jesus Christ says to simon peter launch out into the deep and let down your nets for a draught. Now Simon being the fishing professional said Master we have toiled all night and taken nothing but at thy word I'll let down the net. Wait a second Didn't Jesus Christ say let down the nets plural, so did Simon do what he was told nope and yet they were blessed with fish verses 6-8 go tons of fish. When Simon saw it he fell down at Jesus knees and said depart from me for I am a sinful man lord, look how bad this guy felt.Whats the savior do your right guy your an idiot and I don't want to have nothing to do with you. Quite the opposite Never mentions the error or sin and says fear [the word fear is phobeo to cause to terrify] not from henceforth thou shalt catch men and they still got the fish. It's a matter of where's your heart not where's head the disciples questioned him all the time that doesn't make them evil. All the actions that Jesus Christ did were a blessing and it scared the ---- out of peter.If you think about we probably would have done the same thing. Just some stuff to consider. God Bless

To be saved, we must believe that Jesus is Lord and believe that He died for our sins. This confession acknowledges before God that we are unable to attain righteousness on our own and that we accept His plan for our lives.

"...Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved..." Acts 16:31

"Yet to all who receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God." John 1:12

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Acts 2:38

"I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance" Luke 5:32

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:9

There's a link on the red page: "Become A Christian", that explains the whole process.

For me: Jesus submitted to be baptized in water by John the Baptist. He was fulfilling a prophesy.

Baptism is simply us following Jesus as his disciple in a simple act of obedience.

It never occurred to me to dispute water baptism. It truly was desiring to leave my old life and rise up in the new life.

Brother David, May CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

The scriptures and meaning behind those scriptures I quoted to you are in DIRECT OPPOSITION to there being a LITERAL HELL.

So EACH has to be reconciled to each other through scripture.

Scripture says those in the first resurrection (resurrected with Christ) will not see death but will be instantly in the presence of Christ, in Spirit, with a glorified body.

Scripture says those in the second resurrection will be raise back in their sinful flesh and cast alive into the lake of fire.

If the lake of fire is LITERAL FIRE those thrown into it alive will LITERAL DIE within seconds. Therefore there would be no nations to rule and judge in the ages to come. This doesn't reconcile our two different scriptures.

If the lake of fire represents the judgement IN CHRIST who is a consuming FIRE, then the two scriptures reconcile with each other.

Isaiah 10:16 Therefore shall the Lord, the Lord of Host, send among his fat ones leanness; and under his glory (priest) he shall kindle a burning like the burning of a fire.

Isaiah 4:4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purge the blood of (new) Jerusalem from the midst (CHRIST IN YOU) thereof by the SPIRIT OF JUDGEMENT and the SPIRIT OF BURNING.

Isaiah 47:14 Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not delivery themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to set before it.

This is also spiritual fire from the fact you can't warm yourself from it. The ones in the first resurrection also have to go through this fire.

Mark 4:49 And everyone shall be salted with FIRE.

Matthew 3:11 ....he shall baptise you with the Holy Ghost and FIRE.

Brother David, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

God divides eternity into different AGES. God CAUSES certain things to happen in those AGES.

In the Previous AGE; the AGE of THE LAW and Prophets. God caused THE ONES HE APPOINTED to leave a written record of the AGE TO FOLLOW.

It was written that in the AGE TO COME God would APPOINT (call out) a FEW to be PRIEST in his KINGDOM.

This is what we see now. Most want be called now; BUT there are more AGES to come. Christ and his priest will judge the world and the world will LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS.

God has a PLAN:

ALL WILL OBEY AND WORSHIP GOD.

Isaiah 32:1 Behold, a king shall rule in righteousness, and princes shall rule in judgement.

Psalms 94:15 But judgement shall TURN INTO RIGHTEOUSNESS ....

Proverbs 16:6 By MERCY and TRUTH iniquity is PURGED ...

Psalms 85:10 Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other.

Psalms 22:29 And they that be fat upon the earth shall eat and worship (first resurrection): and they that go down to the dust (second resurrection) SHALL BOW BEFORE HIM: and none can keep alive his own soul.

Psalms 22:30 A seed (priest) shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation (age).

Psalms 22:31 They (priest) shall come (at the second resurrection), and shall declare his righteousness to a people (at the second resurrection) that SHALL BE BORN (AGAIN) that he hath done this.

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth MY WORKS unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Revelation 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessel of a potter shall they be broken to shivers, even as I received of my Father.

Revelation 10:11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy AGAIN before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

This is what the parable of Lazarus and the rich man is about.

Brother david, may christ in us grace us with his wisdom and his understanding.

you are saved!

i am using god's words showing brothers and sisters that all of salvation is of god. man plays no part in salvation. we have been deceived.

at each mans appointed time (by god). god will bring about the circumstances to cause that man to respond to god.

man does't believe god does this. they believe it is their choice.

paul was on his way to kill more of god's church. he believed he was doing god's work.

in one blinding moment god caused saul to become paul.

ephesians 2:10 for we are his workmanship .....

ephesians 1:11 .....being predestined according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his will.

philippians 1:29 for unto us it is given in the behalf of christ, not only to believe on him, but to also suffer for him.

philippians 3:9 and be found in him, not having our own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of christ, the righteousness of god by faith (of christ).

romans 2:4 ......not knowing that the goodness of god leadeth thee to repentance.

all is of god. god appoints at time, gives man his faith to causes man to believe and causes man to repent.

i give my glory to no one.

i will bring down the high and lofty one.

you died on the cross with christ. he is the life you now have and live by.

thank god for the works of christ.

Thank you Earl for your patience with me. I would really appreciate it, if you will tell me how to be saved according to your look at the Scripture.

I look forward to our further discussion through this forum.

Have a good evening. May the Lord bless you and your family.

Amen Bro. Earl that scripture comes to mind that says The spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made US free from the law of Sin and Death. Sometimes we get bit but if we behold the lamb of God our bronze Serpent, our snake bite ( Sin ) is not fatal. No condemnation to them in Christ Jesus who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit . If i do something that I do not consent unto , its not I that does it but sin that dwells in my members ( the Tare ) Satan. We are involved in a warfare but the wheat which is the H.G. is gonna win. With my mind i serve the law of God but with my Flesh the law of sin . That manchild which is the H.G. THE ( WHEAT ) IS GONNA RULE ALL NATIONS GODS, BATTLE AX. The Child of Promise . Any thing not of faith is gonna be destroyed . The wheat was the result of his seed the word sown in mans hearts initiating a birth of CHRIST IN US. Mans fruit unto God via his seed the living word . Thats y he aways refered to himself as the SON OF MAN, HE IS OUR FRUIT UNTO God as Paul said in Romans 7 v 4 ok lemme go. Our 1st born our only son as Zech. said.

Brother David, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

Man WANT BELIEVE what GOD says UNTIL God causes them to BELIEVE. ALL is of God.

There is nowhere in scripture that says if a name is there it's not a parable.

There is more than one scripture that says that Christ spake not to the people BUT IN PARABLES.

Matthew 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitudes in parables; and WITHOUT a parable SPAKE HE NOT unto him.

Mark 4:11 And he said unto them, unto you it is GIVEN to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, it is not GIVEN.

You said not everyone will choose to be saved.

The fact is no one chooses to be saved.

God SAYS I CHOOSE YOU , you don't choose me.

If I be lifted up I WILL DRAW ALL MEN to me.

Man thinks he is a co-partner in his salvation, when in fact every part of man's salvation IS OF GOD.

Isaiah 57:15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and Holy place, with him ALSO that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the spirit of the contrite ones.

Thanks be to Christ for HIS WORKS!

Hi Earl,

Thanks for joining in on the discussion. The basic truth I was stating is the fact that not everyone in the "universe" is a Christian. There is no Scriptural proof that EVERYONE is saved forevermore.

Everyone has an opportunity to receive Christ as their Savior. Unfortunately, many will choose not too.

As you so aptly put from Ephesians 1:10 He will gather all things "in Christ" "in Him." However God always explains what He means. In v. 11-13, "that we should be to the praise of His glory, who first TRUSTED in Christ. In whom ye also TRUSTED, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. In whom also AFTER that ye BELIEVED, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise Eph 4:30 tells us "whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption."

The story referenced in Luke 16: 19- 31 is not a parable. All parables given by our Lord Jesus Christ gave no names of the characters in the story. The story given in Luke 16:19-31 identifies one of the characters by name - Lazarus. This is a true story given by our Lord Jesus Christ. The basic theme here is that there is an actual heaven and hell. The rich man is in hell and not in the grave. They are not the same place.

It is hell because in v.24 the rich man said, "for I am tormented in this flame." There are no flames in the grave. He was asking for water to quench his thirst and cool him from the flames.

The rich man can not receive the LIVING WATER because the salvation of Christ must be received in this life time, never in the life here after.

The rich man knew this fact because of his request to Father Abraham to send someone to his brothers who were still alive. v. 27, 28.



Lazarus is now in Heaven; he was in Abraham's Bosum, before Christ resurrection.

Who are the saints to judge if everyone is saved?

Thanks for the time and discussion in His Name.

Brother David, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

You referenced:

2 Peter 1:20 This verse says no one verse in and of itself give the complete answer. Other verses have to bear witness to know TRUTH. No scriptures can contradict each other. ALL have to bear witness of each other in TRUTH.

Luke 16:22-24

You said this verse and others shows that even though God DESIRES all men to be save they want be saved.

THANK GOD, he doesn't leave his DESIRES up to man.

Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the FULLNESS OF TIMES (more ages than the one we are now in) that he might gather together IN ONE ALL THINGS IN CHRIST, both which are in heaven (first resurrection), and which are on earth (second resurrection), IN HIM.

Luke 16:22-24 Is a parable referencing the judgements of the two resurrections. Lazarus is in the first resurrection and is IN CHRIST. The rich man is in the GRAVE awaiting the second resurrection. When he is resurrected he will be begging Lazarus to give him the LIVING WATER that was given to him.

Know ye not THE SAINTS SHALL JUDGE THE WORLD.

In reply to Glenn Gerun on Luke 5:11

With as much Love and grace of the Lord Jesus Christ that is with in me; I ask that you look into Luke 16: 22- 24. Not all will be with Christ forevermore. 2 Peter 3:9 tells us of God's desire for all, but not all will be with Christ forevermore.

May the Lord bless you in your search of God's righteousness and His wisdom not our own. 2 Peter 1:20

Revelation 20:11-15 depicts the great white throne of Christ Jesus. Not all will be with Christ forevermore.

God gave us these passages, as well as the one's you gave, to help us all to become "Christians or born again believers" in order that we are able to be with Him forevermore.

God's desire is that we be with Him forevermore as you brought forth in your discussion. But only through Scripture, His way. 1 Corinthians 15: 1- 4; Romans 10: 9, 10; 1 John 5:10-13

Pray that this discussion helps everyone on this Forum. God bless you. Love in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Hi Lex,

To add to what's been said by Chris and Sacha,

The fact that your discomfort in your present condition is the light that has been there all the while,

We have to be broken in order to be restored.

Luke 5:30-32. But their scribes and Pharisees murmured against his disciples, saying, Why do ye eat and drink with publicans and sinners?

And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.

I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

To often we study salvation scriptures and mercy, grace, we stick to the new testament scriptures to find these topics,

Sometimes it does us well to view the commandments and scriptures out of the old testament to know the Lord, His Holiness and requirements in order to get a full appreciation of that Grace, We will get a better understanding of why Christ came and had to die on the cross for the sins of the world.

Feel free to please open up and share with us your doubts and disbeliefs.

We would love to help!

God bless you.

Brother Tito,

You state: the God you envision..and go on to say that God will forgive everyone even the bad ones, and that the gate to heaven is a Big as the complete works of the human race.

There is no scripture in the bible that backs what you say. You can envision anything - it doesn't mean it's true.

Please read the following bible verses spoken by Jesus. These verses are TRUE, as Jesus speaks the words of God!

Matthew 4:17

"From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

Luke 5:32

"I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."

Luke 13:3

"I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."

As Christians we can believe in Jesus and God, but if we don't REPENT FROM SIN.we will PERISH!

Believe these words from God.

Matthew 13:41

"The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;"

Matthew 13:42

"And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

It's not what WE ENVISION it is what Jesus says.he speaks the WORDS of GOD!

God Bless

Hello Chris,

If you agree that your definition of a Christian is different, then what is your definition? What exact criteria makes someone a Christian in your view?

My criteria is: believe Jesus Christ, repent/confess sin, and be baptized. Matthew 10:32, John 3:16, Luke 5:32, Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16. A Christian is a Christ follower, which is an action. It is an ongoing activity and responsibility to follow Jesus and obey Him and strive to live a holy life. It takes great effort to do this avoid sin. Look at Paul's struggle in Romans 7. John 14:15. Romans 12:2, James 2:26, John 8:11.

The gentleman I previously spoke about did all the above and is a Christian, but you said he wasn't. Why not? In your view is a Christian not a Christian if he sins just once, or twice, or does it depend on the sin?

And Jesus's followers were indeed Christians. A literal Christ follower is as true to being a Christian as you can possibly get. They literally followed Him around all day, listened to His teachings, believed Him, tried to emulate Him. Judas and Peter both denied and betrayed Him as Christians, because they had freewill to do so, just like Satan had freewill in heaven to do what he did, and just like so many Christians do today, by leaving, denying the faith, committing sin.

What is most sad is this Christian I referred to living in sin right now is doing so because of messages he's been told like you're telling. He's been brainwashed into believing he is already saved and he can now do whatever he wants- that it's impossible to lose his salvation. And now he's enjoying sin and doing all kinds of evil, because he was told he's saved and in the book of life. Christians who think they can get by with committing unlimited sin are completely ignoring what Jesus said. ( John 14:15). That's like slapping Jesus in the face. Romans 14:13. We are to not cause others to stumble.

Brother Dan, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk OLD WINE straightway desireth NEW (wine): for he saith, THE OLD IS BETTER.

John 2:1 And THE THIRD DAY (represents Christ resurrection) there was a MARRIAGE IN CANA OF GALILEE.....(represents New Jerusalem)

John 2:2 And BOTH Jesus was called, and his disciples, TO THE MARRIAGE.

John 2:3 And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, THEY HAVE NO WINE.

John 2:9 .... and the governor (God the Spirit) of the feast called (CHRIST) the bridegroom,

John 2:10 And saith unto him....but thou has kept the good wine until NOW.

The old (wine: laws written in tablets of natural stone) were replaced by new (wine) laws written in the heart.

Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shall love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Matthew 22:38 This is the first and GREATEST COMMANDMENT.

Matthew 22:39 And the SECOND is like unto it, thou shall LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF.

Matthew 22:40 ON these TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG all the law and prophets.

Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart will I GIVE you, and a new spirit will I put in you....

Ezekie 36:27 ....and CAUSE YOU to walk in my statutes....