As judgment begins with the church ( 1 Peter 4:17) we need to be cognizant of this fact in order to prevent any further error to spread where the truth still resides. I am convinced that in recent times it is professing Christians who have caused those who are on fire for the Lord to have the most discouragement ( Matt. 24:29). Jesus warns about this immediately prior to His coming.
We need as with anything else to be balanced; He will come and suddenly; but in His timing. We dare not lose our vigilance or get into the date setting camp. We all must watch as Jesus commanded. ( Mark 13:37).
When we look into what is just around the corner we must realize that God has certain set plans that will come to pass in their time; that is specifically one world government; the Antichrist and the Mark of the Beast which must end in the armies of the world fighting Christ to their demise as He returns and kills them with the fire coming from his mouth ( 2 Thess. 2:8 for this progression). In the end time Tribulation period there will be a countless multitude saved who appear in heaven after the 144,000 ( Rev. 7:9). We remember that we will be part of the assembly in heaven who comes down with Christ in the armies from there when He returns.
As we go forward; of course the main focus should always be on the Great Commission. This doesn't absolve us when we have a chance to stand for righteousness in society; but we should pray and seek Him before entangling in any issues that could hamper what our primary labor should be. Like it or not WE are the counterculture now; we are the fringe society (won't use the r right term fully spelled out to avoid getting flagged).
Perhaps our best bet is what seems to have stood the test of time in recent decades; that is having a small group of people who fellowship together; and a small block or two which can be a sort of sanctuary in rough neighborhoods.
I read and study the KJV, and I have read parts of other Bibles, Michaelswiger gave good information on what manuscripts were used, and if we study the history of the Bible other things and texts like the Bishop Bible were also considered. Giannis and S Spencer have also given good responses on the Greek words. I trust the KJV as the word of God and what He means for us to understand is there, but we must trust the Holy Spirit will guide us.
Aion means life span, age, or epoch, it is the source of our English words age and eon. It describes any length of clearly defined time, whether one person's life or some era of certain renown. As a general point of reference, this word may also apply to the vast span of history: the ages, the times of old.
I agree, with the word's age and world for English-speaking people our understanding can be different. The Greek word aion was translated in the KJV 37 times as world, sometimes world works, and sometimes age would be a better choice, I can send you the verses if you want to study them. Like Matt. 24:3 with the context and what the disciples knew at that time and what Jesus just told them about the temple the word world insinuates they are asking Jesus about His second coming.
If we compare Matt. 24:3 with Mark 13:4 and Luke 21:7 what is written in Matthew with them still thinking Jesus was going to set up the kingdom instead of the end of the world, the end of the age would fit better. The context of the chapter and comparing what is written in each gospel about the same thing helps me.
All translations or transliterations are not perfect, but God is and what He wants us to know He will show us through the Spirit of truth. Take Matt. 28:19, the commission, if we compare it to Mark 16:15Luke 24:47, and what we read in the rest of the New Testament what do we see?
My understanding is Jesus was baptized and anointed in the fall of the year__, he was 40 days and nights in the wilderness. Jesus then chose His 12 disciples. shortly after the wedding where Jesus turned the water to wine, He went to Passover John 2:23, this would be 6 months after He was anointed by the Holy Ghost.
There are 3 more Passovers and Jesus was crucified on the last one, John 5:1, 1.5 years John 6:4 2.5 years, and John 13:1 the Passover He was crucified 3.5 years from when He was anointed as the Messiah.
My understanding of Matthew 24 was also for the disciples for the upcoming destruction of Jerusalem not just for us today, if we compare Matthew 24:15 and Mark 13:14 have when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet. But in Luke 21:20, He writes when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
The abomination of desolation is something done by someone as King Antiochus IV Epiphanes did in 168 BC. It happened before the temple was destroyed in 70 AD. My understanding is parts of Jesus's Olivet discourse were for them and parts are for us.
What is in Daniel 9:27 Jesus caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease when He died and the vail of the Temple rent from top to bottom. As Jesus told the woman at the well the hour has come ye shall not worship the Father in the mountain or Jerusalem, John 4:21
The wording in Daniel 9:27 is for the overspreading of abominations points to the abominations the leaders of Jerusalem will have done, Matthew 23:32-38 Jesus told them "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate" The he, is Jesus who will make it desolate and, in their generation, it was made desolate by the people/Roman army, of the prince/Titus same as God used Babylon in 586 BC.
I hope this makes sense so that you can study for your understanding even if you disagree, if you have questions let me know.
Book of Revelation is in three parts (past, past/present, future)
Revelation 1:19 ''write down the things which thou hast seen(past Rev 1:1-18), the things which are (past/present Chapters 2,3 letters to the churches in Johns time and for us today to know) and the things that shall be hereafter' (Future Rev 4:1 - Rev 19:11-21;Chapter 20,21,22)
Rev 4:1 (start of tribulation) - Rev 11:3;11:7/ Rev 13:5; Rev 13:7 (middle) - Rev 19:11-21 (end of Trib)
Matthew 24:3-14 tells us signs of the end before Tribulation.
End: From a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly, the point aimed at as a limit, i.e. (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination (literally, figuratively or indefinitely), result (immediate, ultimate or prophetic), purpose); specially, an impost or levy (as paid) -- + continual, custom, end(-ing), finally, uttermost. a. termination, the limit at which a thing ceases to be, (in the Greek writings always of the end of some act or state, but not of the end of a period of time
Matthew 24:15-16 is speaking to those in judea near the end of Tribulation. Mark 13:14
Matthew 24:15 When ye (who read this during trib) therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)"
Matthew 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:" (THOSE IN JUDAEA DURING TRIBULATION)
Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains (mountains of Moab, Southern Jordan)
Concerning translations, I would like to say, I could list many things about translations what text were used, what influence Latin had on it, what was not allowed, what was added, but something to consider. I read and study the KJV but it is an English translation but only 25 to 30 percent of the population of the world can read or speak English. What about the 70 + non-English people. We can take a doctrine or a belief and find Scripture to fit it. If a translation is what we put our faith in our ears are closed to the truth given to us by the Holy Spirit.
Mark 13:11John 14:26 The Holy Spirit is our teacher if our ears and eyes are open to hear and see. If we do not clear our minds and pray to our Father to show us the truth it does not matter what translation, we read. We wonder why there are so many denominations and beliefs?????
In Lucan gospel we have a saying of Jesus, coming as it is from the Servant-King is atypical. "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one"( Luke 22:35).
St Luke makes it clear that the sword was their emblem of a new order they were entering into. It also fits with the subtext the narrative carrying along. As associates of Jesus they were also part of the kingdom he had promised (vv.29-30).
Symbolism of the sword is for every saint redeemed from the earth and they follow the white rider on a white horse. He is part of the great army following in the rear. "In righteousness he doth judge and make war." (Re.19:11). The sword is not forged in any fire kindled by man but from the fire that was symbolically present in the night vision of Daniel. The Ancient of day sat on a throne, "His throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire." (Dan.7:9) As human events unfold in earth this fire was streaming as with river of time.
(See entry under R-River of time)
The inaugural vision of St John made a composite image of the Father and the Son. The sword of the Spirit, 'which is the word of God' and it clears every offending thing, the remnant of iniquity, "were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth."(Re.19:21).
As Jesus is wrapping up earthly ministry they disciples were to be watchful (" Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning./ Lest coming suddenly he find you sle"- Mark 13:35-36) It was to be in readiness as soldiers awaiting the command of their Messiah-King for the battle. In the Gospel of St Matthew we have this: "Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword(Matt.26:51)".
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
About 15 years ago and several times before that I had a vision of the pure terror involved with the mark of the Beast. I have since told people that I would ask the Lord would give them such insight but not for those who aren't spiritually strong. The Lord has held back the day of Judgment, but it is promised to be worse than any time in the past and future. Mark 13:19 as well as other New Testament passages and Daniel 12 show proof of this. Without Christ we are dragged in; to the sieve of destruction ( Isaiah 30:28). Suddenly the wicked are broken and that without remedy ( Prov. 6:15).
To realize how fearful judgment is apart from Christ I cannot put into words. When we see Mystery Babylon we can't help but be reminded of the American Pie song with its lyrics
I went down to the sacred store
Where I'd heard the music years before
But the man there said the music wouldn't play
These remind us of Ecclesiastes 12:4 as well as Lamentations 5:14 along with other stanzas in this song about the Lord taking off and no more joyful music as stated in Revelation 18:22. We are hypnotized by music and media today and its demonic mantras and dulled in our senses with the vulgar obsenities that increasingly assail the rightous. The agenda is out in the open at this point; Satan's hour is about to arrive. Christ comes soon so rejoice
The manchild in Revelation, 144,000. The woman in is the City (Am I getting this right?)
Revelation 12:2-6 2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. 3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. 5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. 6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
Matthew 24 13-16 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Before the end, and start of Tribulation) (Jesus goes from signs of the end to speaking of when Daniel mentions the 'antichrist' stands in the holy place. (let them that are 'in Judaea') 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
End From a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly, the point aimed at as a limit, i.e. (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination (literally, figuratively or indefinitely), result (immediate, ultimate or prophetic), purpose); specially, an impost or levy (as paid)
"But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."
Not to be a pessimist because by nature, I'm truly very much an optimist. Humanity has been seeing signs of end times for hundreds of years, if not 2000+ years. I'm always hesitant about attemptibg to make predictions and foretell a potential eminent end of time event. Not that I'm not just as any and ready to move on (hopefully to Heaven) as what you are but because we're told that neither the angels nor Christ know when the end will be but only God does know. I feel like making declarations of an eminent end of time is somewhat taking a position of "I know better" than God's Word. I absolutely support and believe that it is both wise and prudent to be ready at any given moment. But 'end times prophets' have never given me a sense of enrichment. I can easily see that it is not your purpose but to many, it is seem as fear mongering. I don't think that but many would.
First, I would like to say Revelation is not in any kind of chronological order, and we agree there are only two resurrections. The rapture, many believe this is just for the Church before Jesus's second coming. By saying this in my understanding is what makes 1 Thess. 4:13-19 look like a different event from the first resurrection at Jesus's second coming. Matt. 24:31Mark 13:271 Cor. 15:51-581 Thess. 4:16-17Rev. 11:15Rev. 19:11-16 At the last trump the second coming of Jesus, all these describe the first resurrection. Rev. 20:6.
There are only two resurrections, and we see the first resurrection at Jesus's second coming at the seventh and last Trump. After the battle, we see those in this first resurrection at the judgment seat of Christ, the thrones set up Rev. 20:4. Jesus and His chosen then set up the kingdom and the thousand years start. The rest saved and lost will not be resurrected until after 1,000 years Rev.20:5 Rev.20 the last verse 27 tells us this is not just for the lost there are those found in the Book of Life.
Just a few things, I am sorry you feel you have been lied to, there are different interpretations out there. If we study Matt. 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 together it helps.
I have found when studying the Bible, we should not start with a preconceived idea, it is easy to see Scriptures that fit a picture we have painted in our mind rather than letting the Scriptures and the Holy Spirit reveal the true meaning.
First, Jesus's death and resurrection were hidden from them, Luke 18:31-34. Even after he was crucified, they were distraught and did not understand the fact that he was killed. John 16:16-20 and we have Luke 24:4-6. Not knowing Jesus was going to die would they be asking Jesus about His second coming?
Is all of Matthew 24 about the end time, many combined it with other prophecies to create a picture of the end time. Some of it is obviously about Jesus's second coming but much of it was to prepare them for what they were to endure up to the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple. False prophets we see there were many before 70 AD, Acts 21:36-38Acts 8:9 and others. If we look at history there were wars, earthquakes, and famine, Acts 7:11 and Acts 11:28.
Many put Matt. 24:15 and Mark 13:14 at the end time with an antichrist, should we not consider what Luke wrote about the same thing, Luke 21:20 that history has recorded?
One other thing why would Jesus say to pray their flee would not be on a Sabbath day? Today would not be a problem with the transportation we have. Back then the gates of Jerusalem would be locked and would be hard to get out and it would take days to get clear, with a pace of 2.5 mph.
I am with you, we sleep in the grave until resurrection the first of those who are chosen and faithful, Rev. 17:14 at Jesus's second coming and the second, the rest of the dead at the white throne judgment/the sheep and the goats and those whose names are not in the book of life is cast into the lake of fire, Rev. 20:15.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
End: From a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly, the point aimed at as a limit, i.e. (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination (literally, figuratively or indefinitely), result (immediate, ultimate or prophetic), purpose); specially, an impost or levy (as paid) -- + continual, custom, end(-ing), finally, uttermost. a. termination, the limit at which a thing ceases to be, (in the Greek writings always of the end of some act or state, but not of the end of a period of time.
Matthew 24:15 (during tribulation)
"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)"
Matthew 24:16
"Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:" (THOSE IN JUDAEA DURING TRIBULATION)
Mark 13:14
"But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:"
I agree with you, sharing the gospel with as many as we can.
I do not think Russia will intervene they are depleted with their war in Ukraine, there may be a few nuclear bombs, but we know this world is not destroyed by nuclear war. Iran is already in it, whether the other militant groups join in is the big question. The U. S. with all the ammo and supplies they have given to Ukraine and have not replaced our supplies plus what they will give to Israel I would not be surprised if China makes their move.
End times have many interpretations, some things that have already been fulfilled are looked for to be in the future. Many are looking for an antichrist when we see there is not one but there are three in Revelations, Rev. 12,13. I feel people are looking for things that are not coming like the Church being taken to heaven when there is not one verse in the Bible that says we are going to or we are taken to heaven. The earth is for man, this earth, and the new earth. It says those who are worthy will reign on earth not heaven, 2 Tim. 2:12Rev. 5:10
There will be those in the first resurrection that will meet Jesus in the air on His way down to earth, (the world is round) Matt. 24:31Mark 13:27 After the tribulation, it does not say He then goes back up to heaven.
We see that on that day His feet will stand upon the Mount of Olives, Zechariah 14:4, and also Jesus along with the 144000 first fruits will stand on Mount Zion/Sion the mountain just in front of Jerusalem. Much of the end times are tied to the world economy there is so much behind the scenes we do not see and will not see until the end starts.
Whatever comes we are told to watch, this life is not our hope, 1 Cor. 15:19, it is the one we have been promised, Titus 3:7. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints, Rev. 13:10. It will be things coming that have not been, Matt. 24:21,29. My understanding I will leave it there.
Dear Jema: Judging by all the criticism it seems I have hit a nerve with many people. As for your question; if I didn't believe in the literal physical return of Christ then I'd be a heretic; or what is known as a "full Preterist." It seems one of my responses is indicating that Christ has already returned. I'll leave it up to the forum here as to my opinion on the subject-as for that i feel the line has to be drawn as to what is clearly spurious doctrine; for 2 Thessalonians 2:2 makes it clear this has not happened. As to the Rapture and such I would never disfellowship over that issue unless such contention came up when someone asks my opinion that I feel the Lord's will won't be done in communicating His Word.
I hope you have noticed that the Word is something and really the only thing that I constantly quote. Any reasonable conversation relies on it. I have discussed the subject of the Rapture before with numerous references from the New and Old Testament; with the basic principle being that God delivers from as well as through certain things. Such is the typology of Enoch and Elijah who were translated as opposed to Lot who escaped just as judgment came. My basic premise is that it is one thing to die as martyrs now and we CERTAINLY need to be cognizant of that fact as something such as the brave girl who was martyred at Sandy Run that it is coming here. The only thing different in the Tribulation is how demonic entities and God's judgments (which ARE immediately upon opening the Seal Judgments which only CHRIST HIMSELF can open) manifest. And as I've stated before the gates of hell will not prevail against the church at present but the saints WILL be overcome in the Tribulation. I will let you look up the verses as I have quoted them often. The worst time in human history ( Matthew 24:21) is something we haven't seen yet when Satan is allowed temporary control over the whole earth; God has to shorten the days or no one survives ( Mark 13:20).
Revelation 1:19 Write the things which thou hast SEEN, and the things WHICH ARE, and the things which shall be HEREAFTER;
Things which thou hast SEEN ( Rev 1:1-18) things which ARE ( Revelation 2,3) things which shall be HEREAFTER ( Revelation 4:1)
John wrote down what he had seen, in the order in which he saw them.
REV 2,3 'WHICH ARE' CHURCHES IN JOHNS TIME/CHURCHES TODAY
Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth
Rapture 'seizing and carrying off'
There have been raptures already just by the definition above, more yet to come.
Enoch, Elijah, Captives free in the OT are 'raptures'
RAPTURES DURING THE GREAT TRIBULATION.
(Disclaimer: John wrote it) Those who repent during tribulation before the 7th seal, later 144,000 and Two witnesses. Salvation will be available to those who ask for God's grace before the 7th seal though they must endure the first 6 seals.
REV 4:1 RAPTURE/TRIB (Dead in Christ rise first, they which are alive) 6 SEALS ( REV 7:14 Great multitude..'out of' meaning within. Two Witnesses, 144,000 man child)
TODAY IS THE DAY OF SALVATION SEEK HIM WHILE HE MAY BE FOUND!
Mark 13:32 -But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
RAPTURE/START OF TRIBULATION ( Rev 4:2/19:11-21) 2ND COMING OF CHRIST
Chapter 7 starts 'after these' so chapters 4,5,6 have happened.
LITTLE HORN UPROOTS 3 NATIONS, AND OTHER 6 FALL IN LINE. AFTER 3.5 YEARS OF WAR.
Zechariah 14:16-23 - After Tribulation 'Those that left' 'year to year' for 1000 years. Will live, age, multiply and die. In Heaven until 1000 years are up. These nations satan will be let loose to deceive the nations one last time.
NOT THOSE RAPTURED SAINTS WITH CHRIST 2ND Coming, THEY WILL BE ETERNAL
Comments posted on this discussion forum, just tell stories from the 'Word of God' but do not provide wisdom and knowledge about deliverance from the 'spiritual' bondage or salvation for mankind, but they rather raise many questions according to God's judgment.
So, who are these false apostles (e.g. Edward Burroughs - 1657) and false Christs the 'Word of God' speaks of ( Matthew 24:24; Mark 13:22; Luke 9:55; 2 Cor. 11:13-15; Gal. 4:8; Rev. 12:9)?
1 Cor. 2:15. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man ( John 8:15,16; 16:11; 17:16).
Comments posted on this discussion forum, that just tell a story but cannot provide deliverance from 'spiritual' bondage or salvation to mankind, raise many questions according to God's judgment.
Do they follow after an image of a false God ( Exodus 20:3,4,7) and a false Christ ( Matthew 24:24; Mark 13:22; Luke 9:55;
2 Cor. 11:13-15; Gal. 4:8; Rev. 12:9) or do they remain ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, but have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God ( Romans 10:3).
Elliux2 Thank you for your comment, sadly many people in this group do not see this as clearly as you and I do. If one does not see this, it makes it truly impossible to see the True timeline in the Lastdays prophecies. It would be like trying to put a puzzle together with pieces that just don't fit, it cannot be done! And it would seem that the pre-tribulation rapture theory is the first piece of that puzzle that does not fit, which causes confusion in other parts of the prophecies. A perfect example of this is all believers in the pre-trib rapture will see ( Mt 24:29-31) as the return of Jesus on a white horse because v29 clearly says "Immediately after the tribulation". They say it has to be the return on a horse because it says ((after the tribulation))
Thats also why pre-trib believers say Mt Ch. 24 is only for the Jews, but ( Mark 13:24-27) tells us the same thing. And the last verse in that chapter is ( Mark 13:37) which says "And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch". This is prophecy for us for the time we are living right now just like ( Mt 24:29-31) is prophecy for us today!
You write that Jesus is; "a normal creature and not God".
What is the source of this data? It is not the Bible.
Whether we believe it or not, the Bible clearly teaches that Jesus is not "a normal creature".
And whether we believe it or not, the Bible clearly teaches that Jesus is the Messiah, the Christ, Immanuel, the Word made flesh, God, and the Son of God. It is simply a FACT that the Bible teaches this.
See these references: Mat 16:16, Mat 1:23, Isa 7:14, Joh 1:1, Joh 1:14, Mat 8:29, Mk 3:11, 2 Cor 5:10, Rom 14:10, Rev 6:16.
Your noetic challenge is to work out HOW a divine person can be incarnate, suffer on a cross, die and is rise from the dead.
It may delight you to also work out the ontological limitations of a true human nature even when united to an unlimited divine person.
Only once you gather all the data from the reliable sources and understand the full picture all the pieces will fit together. Then, and then only, will you understand the COMPLEX PERSON of Jesus Christ in the Bible is a spectacular sight.
As one Latin writing theologian put it; CUR DEUS ET HOMO.
Hello Moha4med. The Bible doesn't teach us that there is an appointed angel for killing people. The closest Scripture I could find is in 2 Kings 19:35, where the angel of the LORD went into the camp of the Assyrians and killed 185K people. This was God's action in response to the prayer of King Hezekiah of Judah asking God to save them from the hand of the Assyrians. And God sent His angel to carry out this destruction.
So neither Jesus Christ nor any other person before or after Him (except the above reference), who faced death had any angel involvement in their deaths. For Christ, it is recorded in Luke 23:46, "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost." Jesus released His spirit back to the Father & in so doing He died on the Cross. And in Ecclesiastes 12:7 we read, "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." The spirit of man cannot perish, for it is spirit, as God is Spirit. Man's spirit at death returns to God, for God to direct it to its abode awaiting acceptance or final judgement. So, your other questions are not applicable because there is no angel of death that Jews or Christians are told about. I know that in Islam, Azrail is believed to be the angel of death (Surah 32:11), but none recorded in the Bible nor in the Jewish Tanakh. There maybe mention of this in other Jewish literature or the Apocryphal writings, I can't be sure.
Hello, another point worth sharing is God is also powerful enough to limit His power if He chooses. If you disagree, where is the Bible verse saying that? And why assume that all all powerful God somehow doesn't have the power to do certain things? That also contradicts itself.
Plus, the Bible already tells us that Jesus chose to limit Himself and become a servant in the form of a man on earth. Many tend to assume that the way Jesus was as a temporary man must be the way He is all the time. Some can't possibly imagine Him any other way, failing to realize that the whole becoming a man thing was a temporary. If He didn't allow Himself to be a man within the parameters of human beings it might seem to defeat the original intent on becoming a man and being an example for us to follow.
I'd like to respond to your post and challenge your assumptions.
You wrote: "Well, here the Messiah says that he doesn't know the Hour, which makes him a normal creature and not God. If he truly were God, he would know the timing of the Hour and his return, but he said that he doesn't know."
It sounds like you are assuming God has limitations based on your human logic. I think your logical assumptions are flawed, however.
Isn't God big enough to choose to know or not know things? God can also change His mind. He made all things and is powerful enough to do all things including choose to operate on our time frame or dimension or not. You're assuming that God can't do that, and so you're assuming that God must have that limitation while also claiming that he has no limitations. Doesn't your assumption contradict itself?
John 1:1-3 says the Word (Jesus [verse 14]) is God, has always existed, and made all things? If you believe the Bible why would you not believe this verse?
On the other hand, you also say that Christ was crucified and died. So, you know that the one responsible for killing people is the angel of Death. Now you are saying that Christ is God, so if Christ died, who took his soul? The angel of Death? Does that mean the angel of Death is more powerful than God? So, according to your understanding, the angel of Death is more powerful than God. Don't you think about this?"
"Friends, I urge you to be rational, fair, and logical. We all know that the definition of God is that He is all-knowing and knows everything, past, present, and future. Well, here the Messiah says that he doesn't know the Hour, which makes him a normal creature and not God. If he truly were God, he would know the timing of the Hour and his return, but he said that he doesn't know. So, we have two possibilities here: either he knows everything or he is not all-knowing, and you can't combine both because that would be a contradiction. If he doesn't know the timing of the Hour, then he is not all-knowing and incomplete, so he is not God because God is all-knowing. Secondly, if he knows the timing of the Hour and lied when he said he doesn't know, then he is also not God because God does not lie, He is truthful.
Someone might come and say that he didn't know the Hour in his human nature when he descended and that he chose that. Well, my friend, you are saying that before he descended, he was God and knew everything, and when he descended, he became incarnate in a human body, but he is still God and human at the same time, and this is a contradiction because human nature is ignorant, while divine nature encompasses everything. So, if Christ knows everything and at the same time does not know everything, this is ignorance and contradiction in the book. Moreover, Christ is not self-existent because he relies on others, and this makes him not God because God is self-existent and does not rely on others. From the perspective of Christ, he relied on his mother Mary's milk, and this is a great contradiction: to worship a child who drinks milk and claim that he is God. If he is God and has the ability to do everything, why doesn't he produce milk by himself?
Romans 3:10,12 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:there is non that seeketh after God.
Psalms 33:12 Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance.
Matthew 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
Mark 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
John 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
1 Corinthians 1:27,28 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
James 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
The service in the temple made by hands was over as Jesus told the woman at the well, John 4:21-24. Soon in that generation, it would be physically gone and never be again. The animal sacrifices that never covered sin ended on the cross, the whole Levitical priesthood and sacrificial shadow service, Hebrews 7:11-13. Only the Messiah Himself could legitimately abolish once and forever the system of symbols that pointed forward to the atoning self-sacrifice of the spotless Lamb of God.
This was the cause of the sacrifices and oblations to cease in Dan 9:27. This unveils one of the most profound and decisive revelations of the Messiah's mission, the very goal, the things determined by the seventy-weeks prophecy, God's will, the work Jesus was sent to do John 5:36John 17:54-6 the sixfold goal of Daniel 9:24.
In vs. 26 after 69 weeks the Messiah is cut off, which after means it is in the 70th week. The people of the prince that shall come are the judgment of God not in these 70 weeks. This connection between the coming of the Messiah and the destruction of the city is the crucial message of Daniel 9:26, 27. They had 490 years to be ready and accept their Messiah and the people of the prince that shall come is the outcome of Jerusalem's rejection of her Messiah.
Jesus related the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 to Israel's final refusal to accept Him as her Messiah, Matt. 21:33-44Matt. 23:37-38; Luke 19:41-44. The abomination Jesus was referring to in Matt. 24:15 and Mark 13:14 was not to the future but to their near future when the Roman army would destroy Jerusalem and the Temple in their generation Luke 21:20-24.
Thank you we are very close in our understanding, some of the prophecies I believe may have a two-fold fulfillment, but I do not see the 70-week have a future fulfillment. The way Gabriel gave this to Daniel I understand this prophecy as a renewed probationary period for Jerusalem and the Jewish people after the seventy years of the Babylonian exile, so God is giving them 490 years to straighten up and it was seventy consecutive weeks with no gap.
The thought that the abomination the antichrist does with defiling the temple with an idol like Antiochus Epiphanes did in 160's B.C. caused the desolation. The warning Jesus gave when they see the abomination of desolation flea Judea in my understanding what happened in 67-70 AD was a second fulfillment of what we see in parts of Dan. 8 and 11 it has been a while since I have studied those.
The abomination of desolation spoken by Daniel in Matt. 24: and Mark 13:14 Jesus said when they see this happen to flea Judea into the mountains. This is said to be when the antichrist defiles the temple and breaks the covenant in the middle of the week/7 years and the great tribulation begins. The abomination done by the antichrist will cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease.
If we look at Dan. 9:27 the way it is worded it is not the one who does the abomination that makes it desolate like in Daniel 11 and 12 the abomination that makes desolate. In Dan. 9:27 it is written like a penalty they were charged with, "for the overspreading of abominations" and the sentence given is "he will make it desolate" and I believe this he is Jesus, Matt. 23:32-39.
The same way God used Babylon to destroy Jerusalem He used Rome, the people of the prince maybe Tiitus because he did not want to destroy the temple.
I also agree and hold to the outline Brother Chris gave on the 70 weeks but I term "the great tribulation" as the 2nd half of the 70th week as you do. "3 and a half years."
I believe in Mathew 24:15-16 and Mark 13:14 Jesus describes the abomination of desolation as the beginning of the Great tribulation. "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains.
I believe Daniel 8:23-25 describes the rise and first half of the 70th week.
"And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, AND BY PEACE SHALL DESTROY MANY: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand."
Also we see this false world peace mentioned in 1 Thessalonians 5:3.
We see today an urge to leave the narrow gate and merge other religious practices and religions into the Church.
The Nation of Islam uses the Bible and false so called Christian preachers to bridge the gap of their version of Islam and Christianity today.
The Antichrist is coming to set himself up above ALL THAT IS CALLED GOD.
2 Thessalonians 2:4.
"Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."
I may be able to answer this one. Mark 13:9-11. Don't let this bother you. Satan cannot touch you. God has told him, 'you will not touch a hair on the head of my elect! If you are one of God's elect and you have not died. In the flesh. And, if you are still here when Satan is kicked out of heaven on the earth, if you as one of God's elect, refuses to let God speak through you, that is the unforgivable sin. That is what Jesus was talking about. That is the only sin Jesus he cannot forgive. I wish I could be here when that happens. I would love to give that sucker a piece of Father's mind through me.
John ray it is good to have you with us in the family of God.
First, take it slow and ask few questions at a time. It is good to stay on the same subject and learn it well before moving on.
First, being 'born again' means you must be born from above through the bag of water innounce of what happened in the first heaven, earth age. Nicodemus was at odd about this, but Christ explained it in John 3:13.
Satan is the 'prince of the air not the God of the world.' Meaning God has allowed his spirit to be on earth at this time until he is kicked out heaven for a five month period. Mark 13:20 tells us that Christ shorten the days for the elect sake. Revelation chapter 9 tells us that it is five months.
As judgment begins with the church ( 1 Peter 4:17) we need to be cognizant of this fact in order to prevent any further error to spread where the truth still resides. I am convinced that in recent times it is professing Christians who have caused those who are on fire for the Lord to have the most discouragement ( Matt. 24:29). Jesus warns about this immediately prior to His coming.
We need as with anything else to be balanced; He will come and suddenly; but in His timing. We dare not lose our vigilance or get into the date setting camp. We all must watch as Jesus commanded. ( Mark 13:37).
When we look into what is just around the corner we must realize that God has certain set plans that will come to pass in their time; that is specifically one world government; the Antichrist and the Mark of the Beast which must end in the armies of the world fighting Christ to their demise as He returns and kills them with the fire coming from his mouth ( 2 Thess. 2:8 for this progression). In the end time Tribulation period there will be a countless multitude saved who appear in heaven after the 144,000 ( Rev. 7:9). We remember that we will be part of the assembly in heaven who comes down with Christ in the armies from there when He returns.
As we go forward; of course the main focus should always be on the Great Commission. This doesn't absolve us when we have a chance to stand for righteousness in society; but we should pray and seek Him before entangling in any issues that could hamper what our primary labor should be. Like it or not WE are the counterculture now; we are the fringe society (won't use the r right term fully spelled out to avoid getting flagged).
Perhaps our best bet is what seems to have stood the test of time in recent decades; that is having a small group of people who fellowship together; and a small block or two which can be a sort of sanctuary in rough neighborhoods.
Hope you don't mind.
I read and study the KJV, and I have read parts of other Bibles, Michaelswiger gave good information on what manuscripts were used, and if we study the history of the Bible other things and texts like the Bishop Bible were also considered. Giannis and S Spencer have also given good responses on the Greek words. I trust the KJV as the word of God and what He means for us to understand is there, but we must trust the Holy Spirit will guide us.
Aion means life span, age, or epoch, it is the source of our English words age and eon. It describes any length of clearly defined time, whether one person's life or some era of certain renown. As a general point of reference, this word may also apply to the vast span of history: the ages, the times of old.
I agree, with the word's age and world for English-speaking people our understanding can be different. The Greek word aion was translated in the KJV 37 times as world, sometimes world works, and sometimes age would be a better choice, I can send you the verses if you want to study them. Like Matt. 24:3 with the context and what the disciples knew at that time and what Jesus just told them about the temple the word world insinuates they are asking Jesus about His second coming.
If we compare Matt. 24:3 with Mark 13:4 and Luke 21:7 what is written in Matthew with them still thinking Jesus was going to set up the kingdom instead of the end of the world, the end of the age would fit better. The context of the chapter and comparing what is written in each gospel about the same thing helps me.
All translations or transliterations are not perfect, but God is and what He wants us to know He will show us through the Spirit of truth. Take Matt. 28:19, the commission, if we compare it to Mark 16:15 Luke 24:47, and what we read in the rest of the New Testament what do we see?
God bless,
RLW
My understanding is Jesus was baptized and anointed in the fall of the year__, he was 40 days and nights in the wilderness. Jesus then chose His 12 disciples. shortly after the wedding where Jesus turned the water to wine, He went to Passover John 2:23, this would be 6 months after He was anointed by the Holy Ghost.
There are 3 more Passovers and Jesus was crucified on the last one, John 5:1, 1.5 years John 6:4 2.5 years, and John 13:1 the Passover He was crucified 3.5 years from when He was anointed as the Messiah.
My understanding of Matthew 24 was also for the disciples for the upcoming destruction of Jerusalem not just for us today, if we compare Matthew 24:15 and Mark 13:14 have when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet. But in Luke 21:20, He writes when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
The abomination of desolation is something done by someone as King Antiochus IV Epiphanes did in 168 BC. It happened before the temple was destroyed in 70 AD. My understanding is parts of Jesus's Olivet discourse were for them and parts are for us.
What is in Daniel 9:27 Jesus caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease when He died and the vail of the Temple rent from top to bottom. As Jesus told the woman at the well the hour has come ye shall not worship the Father in the mountain or Jerusalem, John 4:21
The wording in Daniel 9:27 is for the overspreading of abominations points to the abominations the leaders of Jerusalem will have done, Matthew 23:32-38 Jesus told them "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate" The he, is Jesus who will make it desolate and, in their generation, it was made desolate by the people/Roman army, of the prince/Titus same as God used Babylon in 586 BC.
I hope this makes sense so that you can study for your understanding even if you disagree, if you have questions let me know.
God bless,
RLW
Revelation 1:19 ''write down the things which thou hast seen(past Rev 1:1-18), the things which are (past/present Chapters 2,3 letters to the churches in Johns time and for us today to know) and the things that shall be hereafter' (Future Rev 4:1 - Rev 19:11-21;Chapter 20,21,22)
Rev 4:1 (start of tribulation) - Rev 11:3;11:7/ Rev 13:5; Rev 13:7 (middle) - Rev 19:11-21 (end of Trib)
Matthew 24:3-14 tells us signs of the end before Tribulation.
End: From a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly, the point aimed at as a limit, i.e. (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination (literally, figuratively or indefinitely), result (immediate, ultimate or prophetic), purpose); specially, an impost or levy (as paid) -- + continual, custom, end(-ing), finally, uttermost. a. termination, the limit at which a thing ceases to be, (in the Greek writings always of the end of some act or state, but not of the end of a period of time
Matthew 24:15-16 is speaking to those in judea near the end of Tribulation. Mark 13:14
Matthew 24:15 When ye (who read this during trib) therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)"
Matthew 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:" (THOSE IN JUDAEA DURING TRIBULATION)
Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains (mountains of Moab, Southern Jordan)
Concerning translations, I would like to say, I could list many things about translations what text were used, what influence Latin had on it, what was not allowed, what was added, but something to consider. I read and study the KJV but it is an English translation but only 25 to 30 percent of the population of the world can read or speak English. What about the 70 + non-English people. We can take a doctrine or a belief and find Scripture to fit it. If a translation is what we put our faith in our ears are closed to the truth given to us by the Holy Spirit.
Mark 13:11 John 14:26 The Holy Spirit is our teacher if our ears and eyes are open to hear and see. If we do not clear our minds and pray to our Father to show us the truth it does not matter what translation, we read. We wonder why there are so many denominations and beliefs?????
I love you all and may God bless,
RLW
In Lucan gospel we have a saying of Jesus, coming as it is from the Servant-King is atypical. "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one"( Luke 22:35).
St Luke makes it clear that the sword was their emblem of a new order they were entering into. It also fits with the subtext the narrative carrying along. As associates of Jesus they were also part of the kingdom he had promised (vv.29-30).
Symbolism of the sword is for every saint redeemed from the earth and they follow the white rider on a white horse. He is part of the great army following in the rear. "In righteousness he doth judge and make war." (Re.19:11). The sword is not forged in any fire kindled by man but from the fire that was symbolically present in the night vision of Daniel. The Ancient of day sat on a throne, "His throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire." (Dan.7:9) As human events unfold in earth this fire was streaming as with river of time.
(See entry under R-River of time)
The inaugural vision of St John made a composite image of the Father and the Son. The sword of the Spirit, 'which is the word of God' and it clears every offending thing, the remnant of iniquity, "were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth."(Re.19:21).
As Jesus is wrapping up earthly ministry they disciples were to be watchful (" Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning./ Lest coming suddenly he find you sle"- Mark 13:35-36) It was to be in readiness as soldiers awaiting the command of their Messiah-King for the battle. In the Gospel of St Matthew we have this: "Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword(Matt.26:51)".
Revelation 14:9-11
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
About 15 years ago and several times before that I had a vision of the pure terror involved with the mark of the Beast. I have since told people that I would ask the Lord would give them such insight but not for those who aren't spiritually strong. The Lord has held back the day of Judgment, but it is promised to be worse than any time in the past and future. Mark 13:19 as well as other New Testament passages and Daniel 12 show proof of this. Without Christ we are dragged in; to the sieve of destruction ( Isaiah 30:28). Suddenly the wicked are broken and that without remedy ( Prov. 6:15).
To realize how fearful judgment is apart from Christ I cannot put into words. When we see Mystery Babylon we can't help but be reminded of the American Pie song with its lyrics
I went down to the sacred store
Where I'd heard the music years before
But the man there said the music wouldn't play
These remind us of Ecclesiastes 12:4 as well as Lamentations 5:14 along with other stanzas in this song about the Lord taking off and no more joyful music as stated in Revelation 18:22. We are hypnotized by music and media today and its demonic mantras and dulled in our senses with the vulgar obsenities that increasingly assail the rightous. The agenda is out in the open at this point; Satan's hour is about to arrive. Christ comes soon so rejoice
Revelation 12:2-6 2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. 3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. 5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. 6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
Matthew 24 13-16 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Before the end, and start of Tribulation) (Jesus goes from signs of the end to speaking of when Daniel mentions the 'antichrist' stands in the holy place. (let them that are 'in Judaea') 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
End From a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly, the point aimed at as a limit, i.e. (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination (literally, figuratively or indefinitely), result (immediate, ultimate or prophetic), purpose); specially, an impost or levy (as paid)
"But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."
Not to be a pessimist because by nature, I'm truly very much an optimist. Humanity has been seeing signs of end times for hundreds of years, if not 2000+ years. I'm always hesitant about attemptibg to make predictions and foretell a potential eminent end of time event. Not that I'm not just as any and ready to move on (hopefully to Heaven) as what you are but because we're told that neither the angels nor Christ know when the end will be but only God does know. I feel like making declarations of an eminent end of time is somewhat taking a position of "I know better" than God's Word. I absolutely support and believe that it is both wise and prudent to be ready at any given moment. But 'end times prophets' have never given me a sense of enrichment. I can easily see that it is not your purpose but to many, it is seem as fear mongering. I don't think that but many would.
Part one.
First, I would like to say Revelation is not in any kind of chronological order, and we agree there are only two resurrections. The rapture, many believe this is just for the Church before Jesus's second coming. By saying this in my understanding is what makes 1 Thess. 4:13-19 look like a different event from the first resurrection at Jesus's second coming. Matt. 24:31 Mark 13:27 1 Cor. 15:51-58 1 Thess. 4:16-17 Rev. 11:15 Rev. 19:11-16 At the last trump the second coming of Jesus, all these describe the first resurrection. Rev. 20:6.
There are only two resurrections, and we see the first resurrection at Jesus's second coming at the seventh and last Trump. After the battle, we see those in this first resurrection at the judgment seat of Christ, the thrones set up Rev. 20:4. Jesus and His chosen then set up the kingdom and the thousand years start. The rest saved and lost will not be resurrected until after 1,000 years Rev.20:5 Rev.20 the last verse 27 tells us this is not just for the lost there are those found in the Book of Life.
See part two.
Just a few things, I am sorry you feel you have been lied to, there are different interpretations out there. If we study Matt. 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 together it helps.
I have found when studying the Bible, we should not start with a preconceived idea, it is easy to see Scriptures that fit a picture we have painted in our mind rather than letting the Scriptures and the Holy Spirit reveal the true meaning.
First, Jesus's death and resurrection were hidden from them, Luke 18:31-34. Even after he was crucified, they were distraught and did not understand the fact that he was killed. John 16:16-20 and we have Luke 24:4-6. Not knowing Jesus was going to die would they be asking Jesus about His second coming?
Is all of Matthew 24 about the end time, many combined it with other prophecies to create a picture of the end time. Some of it is obviously about Jesus's second coming but much of it was to prepare them for what they were to endure up to the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple. False prophets we see there were many before 70 AD, Acts 21:36-38 Acts 8:9 and others. If we look at history there were wars, earthquakes, and famine, Acts 7:11 and Acts 11:28.
Many put Matt. 24:15 and Mark 13:14 at the end time with an antichrist, should we not consider what Luke wrote about the same thing, Luke 21:20 that history has recorded?
One other thing why would Jesus say to pray their flee would not be on a Sabbath day? Today would not be a problem with the transportation we have. Back then the gates of Jerusalem would be locked and would be hard to get out and it would take days to get clear, with a pace of 2.5 mph.
I am with you, we sleep in the grave until resurrection the first of those who are chosen and faithful, Rev. 17:14 at Jesus's second coming and the second, the rest of the dead at the white throne judgment/the sheep and the goats and those whose names are not in the book of life is cast into the lake of fire, Rev. 20:15.
God bless,
RLW
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
End: From a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly, the point aimed at as a limit, i.e. (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination (literally, figuratively or indefinitely), result (immediate, ultimate or prophetic), purpose); specially, an impost or levy (as paid) -- + continual, custom, end(-ing), finally, uttermost. a. termination, the limit at which a thing ceases to be, (in the Greek writings always of the end of some act or state, but not of the end of a period of time.
Matthew 24:15 (during tribulation)
"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)"
Matthew 24:16
"Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:" (THOSE IN JUDAEA DURING TRIBULATION)
Mark 13:14
"But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:"
I agree with you, sharing the gospel with as many as we can.
I do not think Russia will intervene they are depleted with their war in Ukraine, there may be a few nuclear bombs, but we know this world is not destroyed by nuclear war. Iran is already in it, whether the other militant groups join in is the big question. The U. S. with all the ammo and supplies they have given to Ukraine and have not replaced our supplies plus what they will give to Israel I would not be surprised if China makes their move.
End times have many interpretations, some things that have already been fulfilled are looked for to be in the future. Many are looking for an antichrist when we see there is not one but there are three in Revelations, Rev. 12,13. I feel people are looking for things that are not coming like the Church being taken to heaven when there is not one verse in the Bible that says we are going to or we are taken to heaven. The earth is for man, this earth, and the new earth. It says those who are worthy will reign on earth not heaven, 2 Tim. 2:12 Rev. 5:10
There will be those in the first resurrection that will meet Jesus in the air on His way down to earth, (the world is round) Matt. 24:31 Mark 13:27 After the tribulation, it does not say He then goes back up to heaven.
We see that on that day His feet will stand upon the Mount of Olives, Zechariah 14:4, and also Jesus along with the 144000 first fruits will stand on Mount Zion/Sion the mountain just in front of Jerusalem. Much of the end times are tied to the world economy there is so much behind the scenes we do not see and will not see until the end starts.
Whatever comes we are told to watch, this life is not our hope, 1 Cor. 15:19, it is the one we have been promised, Titus 3:7. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints, Rev. 13:10. It will be things coming that have not been, Matt. 24:21,29. My understanding I will leave it there.
God bless,
RLW
I hope you have noticed that the Word is something and really the only thing that I constantly quote. Any reasonable conversation relies on it. I have discussed the subject of the Rapture before with numerous references from the New and Old Testament; with the basic principle being that God delivers from as well as through certain things. Such is the typology of Enoch and Elijah who were translated as opposed to Lot who escaped just as judgment came. My basic premise is that it is one thing to die as martyrs now and we CERTAINLY need to be cognizant of that fact as something such as the brave girl who was martyred at Sandy Run that it is coming here. The only thing different in the Tribulation is how demonic entities and God's judgments (which ARE immediately upon opening the Seal Judgments which only CHRIST HIMSELF can open) manifest. And as I've stated before the gates of hell will not prevail against the church at present but the saints WILL be overcome in the Tribulation. I will let you look up the verses as I have quoted them often. The worst time in human history ( Matthew 24:21) is something we haven't seen yet when Satan is allowed temporary control over the whole earth; God has to shorten the days or no one survives ( Mark 13:20).
REVELATION IN 3 PARTS Past-Present-Future
Revelation 1:19 Write the things which thou hast SEEN, and the things WHICH ARE, and the things which shall be HEREAFTER;
Things which thou hast SEEN ( Rev 1:1-18) things which ARE ( Revelation 2,3) things which shall be HEREAFTER ( Revelation 4:1)
John wrote down what he had seen, in the order in which he saw them.
REV 2,3 'WHICH ARE' CHURCHES IN JOHNS TIME/CHURCHES TODAY
Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth
Rapture 'seizing and carrying off'
There have been raptures already just by the definition above, more yet to come.
Enoch, Elijah, Captives free in the OT are 'raptures'
RAPTURES DURING THE GREAT TRIBULATION.
(Disclaimer: John wrote it) Those who repent during tribulation before the 7th seal, later 144,000 and Two witnesses. Salvation will be available to those who ask for God's grace before the 7th seal though they must endure the first 6 seals.
REV 4:1 RAPTURE/TRIB (Dead in Christ rise first, they which are alive) 6 SEALS ( REV 7:14 Great multitude..'out of' meaning within. Two Witnesses, 144,000 man child)
TODAY IS THE DAY OF SALVATION SEEK HIM WHILE HE MAY BE FOUND!
Mark 13:32 -But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
RAPTURE/START OF TRIBULATION ( Rev 4:2/19:11-21) 2ND COMING OF CHRIST
Chapter 7 starts 'after these' so chapters 4,5,6 have happened.
LITTLE HORN UPROOTS 3 NATIONS, AND OTHER 6 FALL IN LINE. AFTER 3.5 YEARS OF WAR.
Zechariah 14:16-23 - After Tribulation 'Those that left' 'year to year' for 1000 years. Will live, age, multiply and die. In Heaven until 1000 years are up. These nations satan will be let loose to deceive the nations one last time.
NOT THOSE RAPTURED SAINTS WITH CHRIST 2ND Coming, THEY WILL BE ETERNAL
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So, who are these false apostles (e.g. Edward Burroughs - 1657) and false Christs the 'Word of God' speaks of ( Matthew 24:24; Mark 13:22; Luke 9:55; 2 Cor. 11:13-15; Gal. 4:8; Rev. 12:9)?
Seek, and ye shall find ( Matthew 7:7).
Comments posted on this discussion forum, that just tell a story but cannot provide deliverance from 'spiritual' bondage or salvation to mankind, raise many questions according to God's judgment.
Do they follow after an image of a false God ( Exodus 20:3,4,7) and a false Christ ( Matthew 24:24; Mark 13:22; Luke 9:55;
2 Cor. 11:13-15; Gal. 4:8; Rev. 12:9) or do they remain ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, but have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God ( Romans 10:3).
Matthew 7:7. Seek, and ye shall find.
Thats also why pre-trib believers say Mt Ch. 24 is only for the Jews, but ( Mark 13:24-27) tells us the same thing. And the last verse in that chapter is ( Mark 13:37) which says "And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch". This is prophecy for us for the time we are living right now just like ( Mt 24:29-31) is prophecy for us today!
Again thank you Elliux2 for your comment.
Blessings to you and all who seek His Truth.
You write that Jesus is; "a normal creature and not God".
What is the source of this data? It is not the Bible.
Whether we believe it or not, the Bible clearly teaches that Jesus is not "a normal creature".
And whether we believe it or not, the Bible clearly teaches that Jesus is the Messiah, the Christ, Immanuel, the Word made flesh, God, and the Son of God. It is simply a FACT that the Bible teaches this.
See these references: Mat 16:16, Mat 1:23, Isa 7:14, Joh 1:1, Joh 1:14, Mat 8:29, Mk 3:11, 2 Cor 5:10, Rom 14:10, Rev 6:16.
Your noetic challenge is to work out HOW a divine person can be incarnate, suffer on a cross, die and is rise from the dead.
It may delight you to also work out the ontological limitations of a true human nature even when united to an unlimited divine person.
Only once you gather all the data from the reliable sources and understand the full picture all the pieces will fit together. Then, and then only, will you understand the COMPLEX PERSON of Jesus Christ in the Bible is a spectacular sight.
As one Latin writing theologian put it; CUR DEUS ET HOMO.
Enjoy the journey and protect your happiness.
So neither Jesus Christ nor any other person before or after Him (except the above reference), who faced death had any angel involvement in their deaths. For Christ, it is recorded in Luke 23:46, "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost." Jesus released His spirit back to the Father & in so doing He died on the Cross. And in Ecclesiastes 12:7 we read, "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." The spirit of man cannot perish, for it is spirit, as God is Spirit. Man's spirit at death returns to God, for God to direct it to its abode awaiting acceptance or final judgement. So, your other questions are not applicable because there is no angel of death that Jews or Christians are told about. I know that in Islam, Azrail is believed to be the angel of death (Surah 32:11), but none recorded in the Bible nor in the Jewish Tanakh. There maybe mention of this in other Jewish literature or the Apocryphal writings, I can't be sure.
Plus, the Bible already tells us that Jesus chose to limit Himself and become a servant in the form of a man on earth. Many tend to assume that the way Jesus was as a temporary man must be the way He is all the time. Some can't possibly imagine Him any other way, failing to realize that the whole becoming a man thing was a temporary. If He didn't allow Himself to be a man within the parameters of human beings it might seem to defeat the original intent on becoming a man and being an example for us to follow.
Phil 2:5-11
I'd like to respond to your post and challenge your assumptions.
You wrote: "Well, here the Messiah says that he doesn't know the Hour, which makes him a normal creature and not God. If he truly were God, he would know the timing of the Hour and his return, but he said that he doesn't know."
It sounds like you are assuming God has limitations based on your human logic. I think your logical assumptions are flawed, however.
Isn't God big enough to choose to know or not know things? God can also change His mind. He made all things and is powerful enough to do all things including choose to operate on our time frame or dimension or not. You're assuming that God can't do that, and so you're assuming that God must have that limitation while also claiming that he has no limitations. Doesn't your assumption contradict itself?
John 1:1-3 says the Word (Jesus [verse 14]) is God, has always existed, and made all things? If you believe the Bible why would you not believe this verse?
God bless.
Someone might come and say that he didn't know the Hour in his human nature when he descended and that he chose that. Well, my friend, you are saying that before he descended, he was God and knew everything, and when he descended, he became incarnate in a human body, but he is still God and human at the same time, and this is a contradiction because human nature is ignorant, while divine nature encompasses everything. So, if Christ knows everything and at the same time does not know everything, this is ignorance and contradiction in the book. Moreover, Christ is not self-existent because he relies on others, and this makes him not God because God is self-existent and does not rely on others. From the perspective of Christ, he relied on his mother Mary's milk, and this is a great contradiction: to worship a child who drinks milk and claim that he is God. If he is God and has the ability to do everything, why doesn't he produce milk by himself?
Romans 3:10,12 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:there is non that seeketh after God.
Psalms 33:12 Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance.
Matthew 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
Mark 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
John 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
1 Corinthians 1:27,28 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
James 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
Part 4
The service in the temple made by hands was over as Jesus told the woman at the well, John 4:21-24. Soon in that generation, it would be physically gone and never be again. The animal sacrifices that never covered sin ended on the cross, the whole Levitical priesthood and sacrificial shadow service, Hebrews 7:11-13. Only the Messiah Himself could legitimately abolish once and forever the system of symbols that pointed forward to the atoning self-sacrifice of the spotless Lamb of God.
This was the cause of the sacrifices and oblations to cease in Dan 9:27. This unveils one of the most profound and decisive revelations of the Messiah's mission, the very goal, the things determined by the seventy-weeks prophecy, God's will, the work Jesus was sent to do John 5:36 John 17:54-6 the sixfold goal of Daniel 9:24.
In vs. 26 after 69 weeks the Messiah is cut off, which after means it is in the 70th week. The people of the prince that shall come are the judgment of God not in these 70 weeks. This connection between the coming of the Messiah and the destruction of the city is the crucial message of Daniel 9:26, 27. They had 490 years to be ready and accept their Messiah and the people of the prince that shall come is the outcome of Jerusalem's rejection of her Messiah.
Jesus related the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 to Israel's final refusal to accept Him as her Messiah, Matt. 21:33-44 Matt. 23:37-38; Luke 19:41-44. The abomination Jesus was referring to in Matt. 24:15 and Mark 13:14 was not to the future but to their near future when the Roman army would destroy Jerusalem and the Temple in their generation Luke 21:20-24.
See Part 5
Thank you we are very close in our understanding, some of the prophecies I believe may have a two-fold fulfillment, but I do not see the 70-week have a future fulfillment. The way Gabriel gave this to Daniel I understand this prophecy as a renewed probationary period for Jerusalem and the Jewish people after the seventy years of the Babylonian exile, so God is giving them 490 years to straighten up and it was seventy consecutive weeks with no gap.
The thought that the abomination the antichrist does with defiling the temple with an idol like Antiochus Epiphanes did in 160's B.C. caused the desolation. The warning Jesus gave when they see the abomination of desolation flea Judea in my understanding what happened in 67-70 AD was a second fulfillment of what we see in parts of Dan. 8 and 11 it has been a while since I have studied those.
The abomination of desolation spoken by Daniel in Matt. 24: and Mark 13:14 Jesus said when they see this happen to flea Judea into the mountains. This is said to be when the antichrist defiles the temple and breaks the covenant in the middle of the week/7 years and the great tribulation begins. The abomination done by the antichrist will cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease.
If we look at Dan. 9:27 the way it is worded it is not the one who does the abomination that makes it desolate like in Daniel 11 and 12 the abomination that makes desolate. In Dan. 9:27 it is written like a penalty they were charged with, "for the overspreading of abominations" and the sentence given is "he will make it desolate" and I believe this he is Jesus, Matt. 23:32-39.
The same way God used Babylon to destroy Jerusalem He used Rome, the people of the prince maybe Tiitus because he did not want to destroy the temple.
Sorry, I got wordy.
God bless,
RLW
I also agree and hold to the outline Brother Chris gave on the 70 weeks but I term "the great tribulation" as the 2nd half of the 70th week as you do. "3 and a half years."
I believe in Mathew 24:15-16 and Mark 13:14 Jesus describes the abomination of desolation as the beginning of the Great tribulation. "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains.
I believe Daniel 8:23-25 describes the rise and first half of the 70th week.
"And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, AND BY PEACE SHALL DESTROY MANY: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand."
Also we see this false world peace mentioned in 1 Thessalonians 5:3.
We see today an urge to leave the narrow gate and merge other religious practices and religions into the Church.
The Nation of Islam uses the Bible and false so called Christian preachers to bridge the gap of their version of Islam and Christianity today.
The Antichrist is coming to set himself up above ALL THAT IS CALLED GOD.
2 Thessalonians 2:4.
"Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."
God bless.
I may be able to answer this one. Mark 13:9-11. Don't let this bother you. Satan cannot touch you. God has told him, 'you will not touch a hair on the head of my elect! If you are one of God's elect and you have not died. In the flesh. And, if you are still here when Satan is kicked out of heaven on the earth, if you as one of God's elect, refuses to let God speak through you, that is the unforgivable sin. That is what Jesus was talking about. That is the only sin Jesus he cannot forgive. I wish I could be here when that happens. I would love to give that sucker a piece of Father's mind through me.
First, take it slow and ask few questions at a time. It is good to stay on the same subject and learn it well before moving on.
First, being 'born again' means you must be born from above through the bag of water innounce of what happened in the first heaven, earth age. Nicodemus was at odd about this, but Christ explained it in John 3:13.
Satan is the 'prince of the air not the God of the world.' Meaning God has allowed his spirit to be on earth at this time until he is kicked out heaven for a five month period. Mark 13:20 tells us that Christ shorten the days for the elect sake. Revelation chapter 9 tells us that it is five months.