Discuss Mark 16 Page 4

Dear Texsis

Having in mind scripture like the following:

1 Peter 3:21

"The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"

Mark 16:16

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

Matthew 28:19

'"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"

Acts 2:38

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

Acts 2:41

"Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls."

Matthew 3:13-15

"Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.

But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?

And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him."

If Jesus had to be baptized John's baptism to "fulfill all righteousness" and John had to step back to allow that, what about us been baptized the christian baptism to fulfill God's righteousness? Baptism is not symbolic, it is essential for fulfilling God's righteousness, essential for our salvation.

GBU

The lack of Baptism submersion, doesn't appear to be an unpardonable sin.

Let's address why wouldn't someone want to be Baptized? Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, Acts 10:48, Acts 19:2-7, Romans 6:3-13,

Is it fear that keeps one from baptism? 1John 4:18, trust? Psalms 56:11, that person may possibly be about to ask another gentle close friend in the Body of Christ to be the person submersing with people of close relation in there nearby or helping, while the Church leader prays or recites scripture. I've seen many believers like youth outreach baptize with Pastor helping. Depending on the fellowship. Matthew 28:18-20,

If the reason is medical, or because of very difficult situation. Luke 23:38-46,

Matthew 10:33, 2Timothy 2:12, Matthew 16:24, Matthew 3:13-17,

Hopefully these are all helpful

Casting out demons,

Jesus gave instruction, I'm not aware of scripture in the Psalms specified for that. But David who is accredited as author of many of the Psalms written in the Bible, was able to have an evil spirit leave Saul, by playing music. 1Samuel 16, however this seems different, because note: 1Samuel 16:14, 1Samuel 15, note 1Samuel 15:23,

Please read & study these:

Mark 1:34,39, Mark 3:14-15, Matthew 12:28, Luke 11:20, Mark 16:9, Matthew 8:16, Luke 4:14, Luke 8:2, Matthew 28:18-20,

Jude 1:2-10, note: Jude 1:9, Acts 19:13-17, Matthew 12:39-45, Luke 11:14-26,

Mark 6:7-13, Luke 9:49-50,

Matthew 10:8, Mark 16:17,

Matthew 17:14-21, Mark 9:17-29,

James 1:2-7, Luke 11:1-13,

Hopefully these are all helpful

Mark 16:16

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned"

Do Not take away or add to the word of god. If the bible says ( Baptize ) it means Baptize. BIBLE VERSES ABOUT WATER BAPTISM Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be ( baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,) and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 1 Peter 3:21 Mark 16:16 Acts 22:16 and this scripture explains this very clearly! John 3:5 "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee,( Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. ) Romans 6:4 - Therefore we are ( buried with him by baptism into death:) that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Galatians 3:27 Acts 10:48 Matthew 28:19 Acts 10:48 Matthew 3:16 Acts 8:36-39 ( And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain ( water:) and the eunuch said, See, here is ( water;) what doth hinder me to be baptized? Gods word says Baptize it means baptize ( there is no scripture that NULLIFYS WATER BAPTISM ) Further more ( Revelation 22:19

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. God has a plan for salvation and we have no right to change it by our interpretation of the word 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: These are not my word, they are scripture By Which we as CHRISTIANS must live by. I submit this in the love of Jesus and the hope of seeing his will, that NO MAN SHOULD PARRISH !

Dear Jacquie, these other replies are sound advice. One thing I'd like to add. We are commanded by Jesus in Mark 16:15 "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." You can't obey His commandment by obliterating unsaved sinners. We are to be strong enough in the Lord to walk among them without letting their ungodliness influence us into joining them in their sins, such as sex, drugs, alcohol, etc. Even Jesus ate with unbelieving sinners. Do fellowship with other Christians, but don't close out those who aren't walking with Him for you may be the only conduit to bring them to Jesus Christ.

Earl, you said man's doctrine says, "believe and go to heaven, do not believe and go to hell". You gave it to us "LITERAL." You indicate that's man's doctrine, and you were once deceived also.

Jesus LITERALLY says the exact same thing here in Mark 16:16. "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

Note: Baptism is a result of one believing, that's why in the second part of that verse it says he who believe not shall be damned. It doesn't say who is not baptized shall be damned, or he believe not and is not baptized shall be damned. BELIEF HERE INITIATES EVERYTHING. (An argument for another day on baptism).

You call it deception if we believe what Jesus literally said! Who deceived us, Jesus?

I don't get your reasoning; you say we are deceived, but whether we believe or not we go to heaven. Show me anywhere in scripture where deception doesn't have consequences. What's the purpose on you working so hard on changing our beliefs when believing doesn't have no bearing on salvation?

There's Judgment for sinners and There's chastening for believers.

Ether way I don't wish this on no one!

Hebrews 10:26-31.

That's one reason why we preach the cross Continuously! There's blessings and on the other hand There's consequences therefore we preach repentance.

If there's no damnable consequences why preach?

We've been given an urge to preach God's grace. OUR MESSAGE HAS VIRTUE! IT IS SALVATION!!

It has eternal security for the believer! and it has the ONLY escape from Hell. It brings those out of darkness.

If there is another Gospel out there that don't have repentance, Holiness, no wrath of God and no hell. THEN IT CAN'T HAVE SALVATION. " What are you saved from? And if all go to heaven no matter what. Why do you preach and stand in the way of THE Gospel that we preach? It shouldn't bother you unless we have opposing spirits.

Here's what that heresy looks like .

They treat wrath as if it's reward. This is a errored teaching against the effects of the cross.

It speaks in this manner, "Forget the cross, We needs God's wrath!

Forget Holllyness, do evil so we can be thrown in the lake of fire and be purified.

It says Jesus died in vain!

It says God Love on display when Christ died on the cross was pointless.

They look at John 3:16. and

John 15:13, They don't say thank you Lord, They say it was unnecessary.

There's no preaching forgiveness for sins to those who trust In Christ, It says hell and the punishment reserved for Satan and his Angels is what you need.

Here's a direct quote from one just a few days ago "

.....Every sinner will have their part in the lake of fire....thank you Jesus that is what we ALL NEED....His baptism of the HG and Fire.

That's their Goodnews/Gospel.

They say this is from God but they can't take that to their local Church. But they come on the site to attack the truth.

Romans 10:15.

Mark 16:15.

God bless."

There's Judgment for sinners and There's chastening for believers.

Ether way I don't wish this on no one!

Hebrews 10:26-31.

That's one reason why we preach the cross Continuously! There's blessings and on the other hand There's consequences therefore we preach repentance.

If there's no damnable consequences why preach?

We've been given an urge to preach God's grace. OUR MESSAGE HAS VIRTUE! IT IS SALVATION!!

It has eternal security for the believer! and it has the ONLY escape from Hell. It brings those out of darkness.

If there is another Gospel out there that don't have repentance, Holiness, no wrath of God and no hell. THEN IT CAN'T HAVE SALVATION. " What are you saved from? And if all go to heaven no matter what. Why do you preach and stand in the way of THE Gospel that we preach? It shouldn't bother you unless we have opposing spirits.

Here's what that heresy looks like .

They treat wrath as if it's reward. This is a errored teaching against the effects of the cross.

It speaks in this manner, "Forget the cross, We needs God's wrath!

Forget Holllyness, do evil so we can be thrown in the lake of fire and be purified.

It says Jesus died in vain!

It says God Love on display when Christ died on the cross was pointless.

Thet look at John 3:16. and

John 15:13, They don't say thank you Lord, They say it was unnecessary.

There's no preaching forgiveness for sins to those who trust In Christ, It says hell and the punishment reserved for Satan and his Angels is what you need.

Here's a direct quote from one just a few days ago "

.....Every sinner will have their part in the lake of fire....thank you Jesus that is what we ALL NEED....His baptism of the HG and Fire.

That's their Goodnews/Gospel.

They say this is from God but they can't take that to their local Church. But they come on the site to attack the truth.

Romans 10:15.

Mark 16:15.

God bless.

There's Judgment for sinners and There's chastening for believers.

Ether way I don't wish this on no one!

Hebrews 10:26-31.

That's one reason why we preach the cross Continuously! There's blessings and on the other hand There's consequences therefore we preach repentance.

If there's no damnable consequences why preach?

We've been given an urge to preach God's grace. OUR MESSAGE HAS VIRTUE! IT IS SALVATION!!

It has eternal security for the believer! and it has the ONLY escape from Hell. It brings those out of darkness.

If there is another Gospel out there that don't have repentance, Holiness, no wrath of God and no hell. THEN IT CAN'T HAVE SALVATION. " What are you saved from? And if all go to heaven no matter what. Why do you preach and stand in the way of THE Gospel that we preach? It shouldn't bother you unless we have opposing spirits.

Here's what that heresy looks like .

They treat wrath as if it's reward. This is a errored teaching against the effects of the cross.

It speaks in this manner, "Forget the cross, We needs God's wrath!

Forget Holllyness, do evil so we can be thrown in the lake of fire and be purified.

It says Jesus died in vain!

It says God Love on display when Christ died on the cross was pointless.

Thet look at John 3:16. and

John 15:13, They don't say thank you Lord, They say it was unnecessary.

There's no preaching forgiveness for sins to those who trust In Christ, It says hell and the punishment reserved for Satan and his Angels is what you need.

Here's a direct quote from one just a few days ago "

.....Every sinner will have their part in the lake of fire....thank you Jesus that is what we ALL NEED....His baptism of the HG and

Fire.

That's their Goodnews/Gospel.

They say this is from God but they can't take that to their local Church. But they come on the site to attack the truth.

Romans 10:15.

Mark 16:15.

God bless.

Thank you for your response, I just found your reply. For some reason it wasn't in my replys. I will check back on this thread again just incase you reply to this.

I pray deliverance from any and all attacks against you while you're sleeping! Spiritual, natural or both.

The 1st place I would like to start: Have you received or ask GOD to be LORD of your life? Accepting Jesus Christ as your savior? John 3:15-16,

With that we are sealed with promise, 2Corinthians 1:20-22, Ephesians 4:30, Ephesians 1:13, James 1:5, Acts 5:32, Romans 15:13, Acts 2:28, 1Corinthian 6:19, John 14:26, Acts 10:38, Mark 16:16-18, 1John 5:9-21,

* if you have not accepted Jesus as your personal LORD & Savior. Please do that right now, in prayer. 2Corinthians 6:2, 1Thessalonians 5:9, John 14:6,

Hebrews 1, note Hebrews 1:14, if you have received Jesus Christ as Savior, then the visible/invisible image was it fighting on your behalf?

* If you have been involved with anything associated with darkness & evil knowingly or others around you or in your dwelling have. Destroy those things, get it away from you. Turn away from those things. Ask forgiveness from our Father in Heaven. Matthew 6:23, Luke 11:34-36,

* Ephesians 5:11,

Ephesians 6,

Hopefully these are helpful.

Mark 16:15 | View whole chapter

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

We all need to remember that Jesus said this to all of His followers. Everyone can participate in some kind of capacity. If you can't go, be part of intercessory prayer groups to pray for those that do go. Fund the missionaries your church sends out.

Give an offering to God__and bless those who need Bible tracts as they go minister on the streets of your city.

Figure out what part of the Body of Christ you are. I'm his feet. Hear the call.

Dear brother/sister

I disagree with your comment about baptism as a condition for salvation

Please read Mark 16:15-16 .(there are other verses too)

" 15 - And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16 - He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

Does baptism saves one if not born iagain? The answer is No.

Does new birth saves one if not baptised in water afterwards? The answer is still No.

One has to go through both of them to be saved (my opinion ...)

There is a difference between baprism in water and baptism in Spirit. The former you do it yourself, the later God does it.

Also there are different opinions between christians about baptism in Spirit, that are:

a. One is baptised in Spirit when one believes in Christ, that is when one is born again.

b. when one is baptised in water

c. baptism in Spirit has nothing to do with either new birth or baptism in water. It is independent of those, but has to be either at the same time or after new birth.

Anyway I think baptism in water is essential for salvation. There are exceptions to this only when one is impossible to be baptized, like the other thief on the cross next to Jesus, or when one has no time left to live, etc

GBU

I believe you're looking for Revelation 12, I gave additional Scripture in your question on same subject.

I wanted to add: Jude 1, entire chapter & compare Revelation 12 to Luke 2:1-7, Matthew 2:7-23, John 19:30, 1Corinthians 15:20, John 21:14, Luke 22:69, Mark 16:19, Acts 5:31,

Hopefully these are helpful also

Matthew 4:23, Matthew 9:35, Luke 9:1,2,11, 1Corinthians 12, Psalms 6:2, Matthew 10:1,8, Mark 9:23, Mark 9:14-29, Mark 16:17-18,

I have also noticed the Laws given Moses in Deuteronomy, Leviticus, etc. about what GOD said not to eat many of those proven to causes of health problems. I know someone that changed diet & cured her diabetes.

Hopefully this is helpful

Ezekiel 37:12-14, I was amazed the other day to see this prophecy.

Matthew 27:52-53, I didn't find anywhere it clearly states how long.

Luke 24:51, Mark 16:19, Acts 1:1-11, here is the account recorded of when Jesus was taken up.

Hopefully these are helpful

In the answers you have received dear sister Melissa, i see disbelief and reluctance. Even if something is true, one can not continue with such a sermon, repent and be baptized! We bear each other's burdens. Galatians 6:2 We will love each other and give each other holy kisses! 1 Corintihans 16:20 It's not about tying hands and sitting in a corner and thanking for everything. You must never forget the gifts of the Spirit. The Spirit is given to each one according to what is acceptable. So i recommend you ladies to throw out the water spirit you have received in your heart.

1 Corintihans 12

James 5:13-16

Here it is clear the saved are being talked about. So there is a difference between laying hands on the saved and the unsaved. In my life I have never experienced and been infected by the people outside the church. Outside, they are not with us in the Spirit, are they?

Mark 16:14-18

Here it is Jesus Himself who gives the mission command. I want you all to overcome your unbelief, it is these words that you must prove dear sister. Seize the day, the moment, and capture every evil thought. Cleanse yourself every day from malicious thinking and live your life in Peace with Jesus and ppl that you hope for something you do not see. It applies to all of us. Romans 8 and 9 chapter. Go out at Jesus' command and look neither to the left nor to the right. Do the Lord's revelation and do not be afraid to live out the Gifts of the Spirit. If I have now misunderstood their answers, then remember that language, words can be confusing if they are not presented comprehensibly. I use google and sometimes it also goes wrong. :) please forgive me.

God bless u all in Jesus Name He loves u, love u in Christ.

Dear Melissa, though I do believe in laying on hands during prayer for God's healing or guidance such as in ordination, the age of miracles such as the times of the apostles ended when the last one went to be with Jesus. I can think of nowhere in the Bible which teaches us to go about healing people.

Jesus commanded us to bring souls to Jesus. Mark 16:15 "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature," so that they have a chance to be saved. Being born again is more important than anything in this world, including health, because a healthy body will not save one from hellfire. Jesus is the only way to Heaven. John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

Speaking in Tongues

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

Speaking in tongues means speaking in a "foreign language". It was the miraculous ability some early Christians had that enabled them to speak a language without first having learned it. The speaker was easily understood by anyone who knew that language, the first occurrence was on Pentecost. God gave this gift so that early Christians could spread the Gospel without foreign language being an obstacle.

Bless you.

Forgive me; I worded that badly Linda. I knew what I meant..but didn't say it rightly. Yes, Peter denied the Lord 3 times in a row...but at the same event. The event was singular, not the denial! Forgive me for any confusion on that point.

Isn't it amazing that in Mark 16:7, Jesus tells Mary to "go tell My disciples, and Peter.."...because Jesus the Good Shepherd knew that Peter needed the assurance of His repentance. INDEED, it can be so that tears don't mean a THING as to repentance, but in Peter's case, they DID! From the point of His tears forward, He was devoted to Christ, even unto death. And we mustn't forget in John 21, Jesus perfectly reclaims Peter and commissions him to go feed Christ's sheep! Jesus does not send devils out to the ministry! OHHH the Love of Christ...that saves us to the UTTERMOST of our heinous sins!

Oh Linda.. I have been a slow learner many times. It has happened to me as the psalm says, i.e., I have fallen SEVEN times"....but got up again because of GRACE! I've fallen on my face more than Peter's three times, but I KNOW I am forgiven, born from above, and have the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, all because of the grace of God in Christ Jesus!

My failures have made me more watchful, and more humble, and more ready to be forgiving and patient with others.

Gigi said a right thing: we can judge NO man's heart! That is Christ's jurisdiction alone, but but BUT we CAN and are instructed to judge the fruit. The fruit between Judas and Peter is entirely different one from another.

May the Lord help us all grow into Christ and His Word more and more! Amen!

Yes! You are Correct.

The 7th Trumpet Will Sound First.

Then The Dead In Christ Shall Rise (Come Out Of) Their Graves.

And They (The Risen Dead) Shall Appear Unto Many Of Us. Matt.27:53

Then: We which Are Alive And Remain (On The Earth):

Shall Be Caught Up (In Excitment) Together With Them In The Clouds.

In The Clouds? Ezek.3816 / Hebrew.12:1 / Isaiah 60:8

Who Are These that Fly As A Cloud To Their Windows?

God Likens People To Clouds.

So: We (Clouds) Shall Be Caught Up (In Excitement) Together With Those

(Clouds) Who Have Risen Out Of Their Graves And Walk Among Us.

And We Will All Meet The Lord In The Air.

In The Air? (In The Air Waves) In Cyber Space.

Back To Isaiah 60:8 Who Are These That Fly As A Cloud To Their Windows?

Their Windows?

Their Computer Screens: Windows 9 / Windows 10 / Windows 11

Who Are They That Fly (Rush / Hurry) To Their Windows?

They Are God's Children Who Are Eagerly Waiting For Their Lord's Return To Earth.

Jesus is Going To Come Back "To" The Earth. He Is "Not Going To Hover" In The Heavens "And Wait" For All Of His Children To Fly Up To Where He Is.

And So (In This Way) Shall We Ever Be With The Lord.

In This Way? (Via Internet) Every Eye Shall See Him.

Re: Rapture? Nothing But Wishful Imaginations.

It Is Written in Hebrews 9:27

It Is Appointed Unto Men (People) Once To Die;

But After This The Judgement.

No-One Can Escape Their God-Given Appointment With Death.

Matt.24:13 / Mark 13:13

Ye Shall Be Hated Of All Men For My Name's Sake:

But He That Shall Endure (Persecution) Unto The End (Unto Death),

The Same Shall Be Saved.

Rev.6:11 White Robes were Given Unto Every One Of Them; And It was Said Unto Them, That They Should Rest Yet For A Little Season,

Until Their Fellowservants Also And Their Brethren, That Should Be Killed As They Were, Should Be Fulfilled.

2 Thess.2:3 Let No Man Deceive you By Any Means:

For That Day Shall Not Come, Except There Be A Falling Away First.

Brother Mike W:

The first resurrection occurred at Christ resurrection.

John 11:25 ....I am the resurrection....

Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us into the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, ACCORDING TO the good pleasure of HIS WILL.

John 15:16 Ye have not CHOSEN ME, But I have CHOSEN YOU .....

All is the WORK'S OF GOD, man just receives the GIFT.

Philippians 1:29 For unto you it is given, on the behalf of Christ, not ONLY TO BELIEVE on him, but also to suffer for his sake,

1 Corinthians 4:7 For who maketh thee to be different from another? and what hast thou that ye did not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why does thou glory, as if thou received it not?

You begin life with a mind of FLESH, if you have your part in the first resurrection, your mind of FLESH IS BEHEADED, and replaced with the mind of Christ.

All the WORK'S OF GOD.

GBU

Brother Mike W, when did the first resurrection occur?

One more verse for further confirmation:

"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years" ( Revelation 20:4-6, KJV).

Sequence of Events:

1. The first resurrection (this includes people who are killed during the tribulation for not worshipping the beast or

receiving his mark).

2. Those, who are resurrected, reign 1000 years with Christ.

3. The rest of the dead rise after the 1000 is finished.

4. The second death (for those who are not a part of the first resurrection).

Timing: Begins after the people are beheaded for their witness of Jesus, and for not worshipping the beast or receiving his mark, but before the thousand-year reign of Christ.

Here we can clearly see that there will be people who have been executed during the tribulation present at the first

resurrection. This can only occur if the resurrection occurs after the tribulation. These are the people who reign with Christ for a thousand years. If there is a pre-tribulation rapture, then these people are raised before the first official resurrection, they may not reign with Christ, and they may even be subject to the second death! Clearly, a pre-tribulation rapture requires that these verses must either be refuted or ignored.

Allow me to continue...

"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign forever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth" (Revelation

11:15-18, KJV).

Sequence of Events:

1. The seventh (last) trumpet of the tribulation sounds.

2. The earthly reign of Christ begins.

3. The time of the dead (resurrection).

4. Prophets and saints judged for rewards.

5. Those who destroy the earth are destroyed.

Timing: Beginning with the seventh trumpet of the tribulation. The seventh and final trumpet of the period of the tribulation is sounded and the reign of Christ begins on earth. At this time, the resurrection and judgment of the saints occurs - after the

tribulation. This seems to confirm our previous conclusion.

Luke 22.30

that ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Matthew 19.28 ( says it again )

If some one can show from scriptures that Jesus is coming 3 times ? Then maybe the error of pretrib rapture should be considered. But it's not there .

Jesus answered the questions about the end times . In Matthew 24 , and Luke 21 . Check it out .

Compare to revelation as well .

1 st reserrection fits the rapture perfectly.

I believe you got it right Mike .

God only has one house hold of people .

Only two class of people his sheep and the goats .

The 12 apostles will rule over the 12 tribes of Israel ! Really . The lamb and God himself will be the light for his people .

Can't remember where I read it about the 12 apostles ruling the 12 tribes , that's church leaders over the Jews . The 12 apostles are the foundation of the CHURCH and Christ being the chief corner stone .

Amen

Mike,

I am not trying to sway you one way or another about pre/mid/or post tribulation rapture because it's not a salvation issue. But I would like to comment on this section in Matthew you are sharing. There are two words I'm focusing on in those verses, tribes, and elect.

Now the word "tribes" is very important. That tells us that we are talking about Jewish people. It is a Jewish term. All the tribes of the earth shall mourn. And they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. All the tribes!



Again, that would be Jews.



In Revelation Chapter 1 Verse 7, it tells us that every eye will see Him, even those who have pierced Him.



Zechariah Chapter 12 Verse 10 is a prophecy that the Jews hold to, only they don't understand its application. It says that when Messiah comes, they will look upon Him whom they have pierced.



So at this time when Christ comes, at His second coming, the Jews who are left on the earth, they are going to mourn, and they are going to look and go "Oh no, we crucified our Messiah, and here He is!"

They are going to recognize Him. And we see a few verses later that the Lord's going to round them all up.

It says the great Shofar will blow, and the Lord will gather His people from the four corners of the earth. So that is very important because that's a prophecy that the Jews looked for.



Verse 31 says He is going to gather them together, his elect, (that would be the Jews), from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other, north, south, east, and west.

So those two words (tribes and elect) tell me that this is not the church Jesus is talking about.

Revelation 8, - Revelation 9, - Revelation 10, note there are 7 angels with seven trumpets Revelation 8:2-6, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, & 4th angels "sounded" their trumpets in Rev. 8, Revelation 8:7,8,10,12, & warns of the final 3. Revelation 8:13, "And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabitants of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound"

The 5th & 6th angels sound in Rev. 9, Revelation 9:1,13, It's not until Revelation 10, the 7th will sound Revelation 10:7,

1Corinthians 15:52, Jeremiah 4:13, Daniel 7:13, Zephaniah 1, Zephaniah 1:15,16, Amos 5:18-20, Matthew 24:3-51, Mark 13:4-37, Revelation 1:7, Mark 14:60-62, Matthew 26:62-64, Revelation 10:1-7, Revelation 14,

1Thessalonians 1:9,10, 1Thessalonians 2:19, John 17, 1Thessalonians 3:4, 1Thessalonians 4:13-18, 1Thessalonians 5, 2Thessalonians 1, 2Thessalonians 2, 2Timothy 2, 2Timothy 3, 2Timothy 3:12, 2Timothy 4:1-8, Titus 2:13-15, 2Peter 2:4-9, 2Peter 3:9-18,

Hopefully these are helpful to this discussion

Agreed. We know it will happen regardless. Why is the church so divided on this? I believe pre-trib rapture and have read through over 28 verses distinguishing it from the second coming or other replacement theology. But, I've debated this and those convinced by a doctrine otherwise simply won't listen; therefore... I no longer debate this to avoid discord.