Thank you Andrew for your response. And lest I suffer a further admonition, I submit the following (maybe in conclusion):
A. I can appreciate your understanding, where the example given by Paul of the Assyrian siege was to alert the Corinthians that the unknown tongue was given as a sign (to those that believe not), but it was also given as a condemnation to their improper use of the Gift, when an uninterpreted Tongue has no value in the Church & would be spoken as an unintelligible sound to all, as it was heard by Ephraim in captivity. And that was the whole point of 1 Corinthians 14.
B. I quoted the early Church fathers purely to show that the Trinity teaching didn't emanate from Constantine or others, but was believed right from the apostolic era.
That was interesting that you mentioned, "There is no issue with the divinity of Christ. The deity of Christ is His Father: God." Lest we're splitting hairs, are we not saying the same thing? That for Christ to be Divine, He would have his origins from within the Godhead? That the Trinity teaching speaks of One God from Whom emanates His Word & His Spirit - not three separate deities, but One God who is only One & manifests Himself in Three personalities. That any One of them cannot think, will or act independently or contrary to the other, since the Three are One (in Essence, in Purpose, in Mind).
I don't support the Oneness (Jesus Only) belief, which generally believe that Jesus is now only seen as God, having assumed the place of the Father & the Spirit.
That the "Word was made flesh", I believe was at His conception in Mary's womb & not at His baptism. And to state: 'Jesus had only one Father - God, from Whom Jesus, the Word, proceeded & was born of God to be made Man'. Jesus was eternally God's Word but chosen to be made flesh for our sakes. The point being: did Jesus come from within the Divine to be Man, or was He specially created by God & then infilled with the Divine at His Baptism? Blessings.
I agree that Jesus is as the bible and God himself declares that Jesus is the Son of God .
And even Jesus declared that God was and is his father .
The problem is that the spirit of truth only can understand this .
The spirit of error was very evident in the Roman Catholic Church . The trinity doctrine was the spirit of error that will never acknowledge the truth . It can not . Only those that have God dwelling in them can acknowledge Jesus as the Son of God . And not add to it more or take away from it .
1st John is loaded with who Jesus is . This subject has been on this web site before , but few of any things changed .
Jesus said continue in my word and the truth will set you free ! Amen
OnlytruthintheworldKJV, you were concerned of the time and dates on the 70th week ending and feel there is 3 years left. There are not any dates or time in the scriptures so we have to look at the recorded dates in history. This is the closest dates I can find in history records but it should be within a margin of erra, may it answer your doubts.
The 70 weeks of 7= 490 years. 483 years when Jesus was baptized. History places this around 29AD. Jesus' ministry was 3 years by the number of Passovers Jesus went to according to scriptures. We are at 486 years. Stephen's death is recorded around 36AD. This is around the same time Jesus stopped confirming the New Covenant through is Apostils and Peter had his dream and went to Cornelius and the gospel went to the Gentiles.
This prophecy was determined upon Israel and Jerusalem not the world, and these six things were to be fulfilled. See for yourself if these were fulfilled by Jesus. 1 To finish the transgression ( Isaiah 53:5, 8) ( Hebrews 9:15-18) 2. To make an end of sins ( Matthew 1:21) ( Hebrews 10:8-11) ( 1 John 3:5) ( Romans 8:3) 3. To make reconciliation for iniquity ( Colossians 1:20-22) ( Isaiah 53:6) ( Titus 2:14) ( 2 Corinthians 5:18-19) 4. To bring in everlasting righteousness ( Romans 5:17-21) ( 2 Corinthians 5:21) 5. To seal up vision and prophecy ( Daniel 9:23) ( John 6:27) ( Mark 1:14-15) 6. To anoint the most holy ( Hebrews 9:6-14).
The 3 years in Revelation starts when Satan is cast down and gives his power to the beast, not connected with the 70 weeks. If not clear its ok.
OnlytruthintheworldKJV - In Reply on Mark 3 - 3 years ago
Praise Jesus!
All glory and honor to His mighty saving name! O/!
Thanks for the encouragement.
Yea we must proclaim the truth in love.
Ezekiel 33:6 KJV
But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.
Jesus is returning to catch up a virgin chaste spotless bride of believers who are baptized in His name & filled with His Spirit. I pray that I will persevere to the end and can warn & lead as many others as the Lord wills into the fold.
For He is also returning:
"In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that (a.) know not God, and that (b.) obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:"
2 Thessalonians 1:8
If someone believes Jesus Christ the Son of God is a "pre-incarnate" "co-equal" deity of a "triune" triple God, then they (a.) don't know God ( Matthew 7:21-22).
And if they haven't been baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins ( Acts 2:38), then they (b.) haven't obeyed His gospel.
Thanks again Andrew ,i hope you will pop up here now and again ,there are one or two other things that i dont believe that lots of others seem to and i havent mentioned them ,yet ! Mostly i keep quiet because i know that people dont change their minds easily and im not a person who likes to get embroiled in long pointless arguements so mostly i say nothing and try to focus on the things we do have in common ,there are some things i do feel very stongly about and i know i wont be able to stay quiet for long , you have helped me to speak out about the fact that Jesus is not God and im so thankfull to you for that ,we are not alone ,there are a few others on here occasionally and most of my Christian friends know this ,stay strong and bold in the Truth ,you give courage to others ! May God bless you and bring you closer to Him every day through the mediation of our sinless High Priest in heaven ,Jesus Christ the Righteous .
Hi Andrew ,nice to meet you ,thankyou for so succinctly expressing what i have wanted to for so long now ,no one will ever be able to convince me that Jesus i s God ,it honestly distresses me that people think this , to me this doctrine actually diminishes the awe inspiring life and death of Jesus ,for his sacrifice to be acceptable as a covering for our sinfulness then he has to be just like us ,human, possessing free will and the ability to sin ,he lived a similar life to all of us before his annointing of the Holy Spirit ,he may not have had children of his own but i belive he had younger siblings ,he may have helped raise them depending on when Joseph died ,he may have been the breadwinner and provider for his family ,he understood us as humans totally , he received the Spirit WITHOUT MEASURE but that doesnt mean he was actually God ,for every verse that anyone tries to point to to say that he was i can point to twenty verses to prove he was not God ,he was tempted GOD CANNOT BE TEMPTED , im going to stop now ,im sure ive caused enough trouble for one night and im not going to debate this with anyone so you can all reply to me and i will read them but i would much rather focus on the Truth that binds us and not get into endless arguements ,no one will change my mind and im sad to think i wont change anyones mind ,thanks Andrew .
OnlytruthintheworldKJV - In Reply on Mark 3 - 3 years ago
Dear Chris,
A. Paul makes no reference to a warning about the Assyrian siege & hearing the word of God in other languages (the Assyrians were pagans, and the word of God was been only written in Hebrew).
Paul is showing forth that Isaiah's prophecy is showing that tongues are for a sign to them that believe not.
B. You say you appeal to the scriptures, yet cleave to doctrines of men such as Tertullian etc. Both Tertullian and Sabellius (originator of the oneness/modalism heresy) were theologians/witchdoctors & wolves crept in unawares.
There is no issue with the divinity of Christ. The deity of Christ is His Father: God.
2 Corinthians 5:19 (KJV) 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation
God was in Christ.
It doesnt say God was Christ or Christ was God. It says Christ was/is the Son of God. Flesh and blood cannot reveal this to you.
This is the very definition of the word Christ: the annointed one.
He was annointed with the Holy Spirit of His Father @ his baptism by John in the Jordan river. Hallelujah!
That was when the Word (God) was made flesh.
He then began his 3.5 year ministry of miracles signs and wonders.
Furthermore as per the heretical doctrine of the "trinity": there are 3 "co-equal triune" deities.
Matthew 1:18 KJV
18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
So did Jesus have two Fathers?
"God the Holy Ghost" AND God the Father (the only true God)..???
I beseech you in the name of Jesus Christ to come away from the teachings of men & rome (MYSTERY BABYLON MOTHER OF HARLOTS) and all her "protestant" daughters, & read & believe the word of God AS IT IS WRITTEN.
This is your 2nd & final admonition.
I will pray for you, Chris, & I remain here for you in the gospel of Jesus Christ ( Acts 2:38)
Apologies about using the abbreviation - saving space.
Re: A. Indeed, Paul refers to Isaiah 28:11,12 though it has to be understood why he referenced it in 1 Corinthians 14:21. Ephraim was warned that because of their sins they would be carried into the Assyrian captivity where they would hear strange languages. This was a judgment against them: both the captivity & hearing God's Word in a language they didn't understand. So Paul uses that warning to Ephraim for the abuse of the Gift of other Tongues in the Corinthian Church. When the Gift ought to be used correctly (i.e. with interpretation) for the edifying of the Church, the Corinthians disregarded that & uttered in a manner that was unintelligible, resembling the confusion & nonsense that Ephraim was subjected to. So Isaiah's prophecy wasn't an authority for the future Gift of other Tongues but a warning to the Church to use the Gift correctly or else it would be of no use ( 1 Corinthians 14:7-11).
B: The Trinity. Whether of the 'Babylonian trinity' or 'Constantine's invention at the Council of Nicaea', I care little, since my appeal is to the Scriptures & I added the testimony of a couple of the early Church fathers. True, there is only one God & there is one Mediator between God & men, but we still have a problem when Scriptures reveal the Divinity of this Man Jesus. Even in John1:1-14, how can we disregard the Word of God, issued out of the Essence of God Himself, being sent forth into the World in a body of flesh. Is that impossible for God or could it be that our minds have difficulty in comprehending such a miracle? Also, could not God have provided another lamb (a special one-off creation & of complete purity) to be sacrificed for sinners? Why create a new sinless man for that purpose? Or, maybe it has something to do with the declaration of God's Love in the giving of Himself when no other sacrifice would be acceptable to Him. Philippians 2:5-11 is another compelling Scripture. Blessings to you.
OnlytruthintheworldKJV - In Reply on Mark 3 - 3 years ago
Greetings in Jesus' name, Chris.
Please forgive me not replying sooner, but I didn't see you had addressed your message to me due to the abbreviation.
A.
So concerning Isaiah 28:11-12. If this is not prophesying of the Holy Ghost as you claim; then why does Paul quote it in 1st Corinthians when speaking about the Holy Ghost and speaking in tongues?
1 Corinthians 14:21-22
21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
Jesus himself said that those who believe will speak in other tongues: Mark 16:17
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
B.
As per your claim that the apostles believed in a "trinity" of gods, that is heresy. Every Jew (including Jesus) was taught from an early age on that there is only one God in reciting the Shema ( Deut. 6:4) Jesus quoted it in Mark 12:29:
And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The LORD our God is one LORD:
Paul (also raised as a devout Jew under Gamaliel) also understood this:
1 Timothy 2:5
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1 God + 1 man (in whom God dwelt - 2 Cor 5:19) does not = 3 "gods".
Research the pagan trinity of babylon (Nimrod, Semiramis & Tammuz) and how Constantine united pagans and "christians" @ the same time he was slaughtering Christians because they were just growing stronger the more he had them killed.
Numbers 23:19
19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
God did not become a man. God is a Spirit ( John 4:24).
Thank you Jesse, I like your thoughts and they speak to me. My wife and I when, we became engaged already Christians, we became one, even though we were 2,500 miles apart. We planned our wedding date and invited the guests. The day finally came where we by ceremony were officially (outwardly) married in the Lord. In our case it was her Dad, a minister of the Gospel that preformed the ceremony. When the wedding and prepared meal was over we left the guests and family and began our journey as husband and wife. Somehow even though this was not a Jewish wedding of times past it was a wedding that the Lord put together. My thoughts earlier have a hard time reconciling that after this marriage was consummated why we would ever be found separate as one of us returned to the world one more time for those who may have repented in not coming as guests when the invitations were sent.
I am not sure who posted that, but it does look like it is word for word of what I posted a long while back.
To answer your question, I would have to say that we are already married to Him. We (The Church) are His bride now, present tense. We're just waiting for Him to come for us. Once He does, there will be a wedding feast in heaven and we will be there.
For the Jewish people, the marriage was different than what we see marriage to be today in our western world way of thinking. For them, once you became engaged, it was the same as being legally married. There was a one year period of separation between the bride and groom called a "time of purity." This was to make sure that the bride was not pregnant.
Do you remember in Matthew Chapter 1 when the angel appeared to Joseph in a dream and said do no fear to take unto thee Mary thy wife? This was during the 1 year engagement when Mary was pregnant. We would see it as them being engaged but not married yet. But the angel said "Mary Thy wife." They were already married. They were betrothed.
We are His bride now. One day when the Father says go and get your bride, He will come for us. And we will never be separated from Him. Our marriage to Christ is eternal. That marriage began the moment we received Christ.
"Keep your OIL topped off. Don't use it for French fries!" You made me laugh with that one. I love your humor. You do make some great points. My belief is that our oil will always be full. Our lamps will always be kept trimmed and burning because Christ in us is the light that shines and cannot be extinguished!
Lezbeth, may the Spirit grace you with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.
Revelation 22:16 I JESUS have sent my angel to testify unto you (you are the church) these things (that are revealed; by Revelation) in the CHURCHES....
Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him (Christ), to show unto his servants (Christ's inheritance; Psalms 2:8) things which much SHORTLY (during your lifetime) come to pass......
1 Peter 1:21 WHO (YOU) by HIM (CHRIST) do BELIEVE....
Galatians 2:16 KNOWING that a man is not justified by the works of the law, BUT BY THE FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST, even we have BELIEVED (by HIM) in Jesus Christ, that we might be JUSTIFIED by THE FAITH OF Jesus Christ......
Christ has given you HIS FAITH
Revelation 2:26 And he (you; the church) that overcomes and keeps MY WORKS (remember he gives us HIS faith, His truth, His wisdom, His understanding, His council, everything that is HIS he gives to us as our inheritance; we are his children) unto the END (when you leave this body of flesh at it's death; now he is going to give you HIS BODY; HIS incorruptible and immortal self ( 1 Timothy 6:16)......
Revelation 20:5-6 .... This is the FIRST resurrection.
(vs 6) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the FIRST resurrection....
Remember he gives us what is HIS; he gives us HIS RESURRECTION. ( John 11:25)
Isaiah 26:19 Thy dead men shall LIVE, together with MY DEAD BODY SHALL THEY ARISE...
This is the rapture of the church (you) individually not collectively.
Isaiah 27:12 ...ye shall be gathered ONE BY ONE....
Mathew 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken and the other left.
1 Corinthians 12:27 Now we are THE BODY OF CHRIST.....
1 Corinthians 3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours (THROUGH THE WORKS OF CHRIST)
Hello Jesse, Thank you for clarifying that. I was trying to figure out if it was you posting without your name. Do you also think that once Jesus and His Bride are married they will never be separate?
These 7 Steps of a Jewish Wedding look like what I posted about a year ago. It is very fascinating how it parallels the events spoken of in Matthew Chapters 24 and 25. Thanks for re-posting!
Details of a Jewish Wedding - In Reply on Mark 3 - 3 years ago
CAUGHT UP to a Jewish Wedding.
These are actual 7 steps of a Jewish wedding.
1. First, the Jewish groom barters with the father of the bride. They get together and they go back-and-forth, and barter as to what the deal is going to be.
2. Once they reach an agreement, the future bride is brought in. And if she approves of it, all three of them drink out of the covenant cup, which means from that time forward they are betrothed.
3. The groom goes back to his father's house to build their living quarters. It is built right off of the family home. And once the wedding takes place, and they are now married, they will go back to his family's home, and there will be living quarters that will be for them.
4. The father of the groom decides when the living quarters are done, and when he can go get his bride. What does that tell us? We don't know the time or the hour. It has to be a minimum of one year because it is a time of purity for her. The groom can go get his bride when his father decides it's time.
5. When the marriage announcement is made, catch this: the people who have already been invited to the wedding feast, they take their positions along the parade route, because the groom is going to get his bride. And there are people stationed in position all the way along the route. They join the parade as it passes by. It is called a parade.
6. When the groom reaches the bride's house, he stands at a distance and blows the shofar, the trumpet, for the bride to come out and meet him. And the wedding takes place at that time. Do you see anything in there about prophecy? The groom comes to get his bride, and he stands a ways off and blows the trumpet, and she comes out to meet him.
7. The parade goes back to the groom's house and the wedding feast begins. All of the guests in the parade gather in the Fellowship Hall, and the door is shut. This is not an open public thing. It is for guests who ACCEPTED THE INVITATION.
Mishaels39 take on Timing of the Rapture - In Reply on Mark 3 - 3 years ago
If you'll use this websites SEARCH Box:
Type in: caught up, in the clouds, day of the Lord;
Bride.
You will find an abundance of scriptures to study. I found in the Gospels, the story Jesus tells of the 10 virgins to be helpful with timing.
Believers are the Bride of Christ. We are to be saved, washed in the blood of Jesus: without spot or wrinkle in our wedding apparel. We're to have our lamps FULL with the oil of joy, the Holy Spirit provides.
In Jewish weddings, when all preparations had been readied, THE GROOMS FATHER stood up and told the BRIDEGROOM to go get his Bride.
In the prophesy calendar of times: the Groom and Bride attend the Wedding Feast. Everyone INVITED by the Groom (born again believers only) is allowed into the Banquet.
So this creates a timing problem for some people. I'm seeing in scripture: getting ready, looking up for his arrival, wedding dress on, lamps full, knowing the signs of the Times. Matthew 24
The Bride of Christ may endure some of the beginning of Sorrows, such as natural disasters, corona virus, locusts, things like that. We've got vaccinations, bug killer and storm cellars. With wisdom we'll get through the approach of THE DAY. Keep your OIL topped off. Don't use it for French fries!
I do not believe the Lord Jesus Christ or Father God, are going to make the Bride be tempted by the Antichrist or False Prophet. Satan is the Beast. Evil will follow immediately after the Bride arrives at the Wedding Feast. Out of their reach.
Jesus descends into the clouds to catch up His Bride. Do scripture search on: "In The Clouds"
Jesus's FEET DO NOT TOUCH EARTH. He is in the clouds. Off go the Bridegroom with His Bride to the Wedding Feast.
I haven't read this in a book. This is strictly from my own studies when I was trying to figure out pre, mid, post rapture. We are told HAVE THAT OIL FULL, BE READY TODAY. Get born again NOW.
This first scripture clearly warns that Satan will have power to deceive human beings with false signs, even tales of alien creatures, spaceships, mermaids, monsters, vampires, you name it. Cable and streaming tv are full of it.
Guard your mind, heart and eyes. Christians should not view slop on Saturday and sing in Church on Sunday. Don't let your kids watch it.
There is an alternative to watching Netflix. It's called PUREFLIX. I highly recommend it. It's not corny or lame. It's entertaining and doesn't pollute your soul. There's movies for the guys too! You can view the Free Trial for 10 days.
In Deuteronomy 28: God says, Choose Life, so that you and your children may live.
2 Thessalonians 2:9 - [Even him], whose coming is after the working of SATAN with all power and signs and LYING wonders,
Matthew 24:24 - For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very ELECT (us).
2 Timothy 3:1-5 - This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. (Read More...)
Acts 2:22 - Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
Revelation 16:14 - For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, [which] go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
Mark 13:22 - For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if [it were] possible, even the elect. (YOU)
John 4:48 - Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.
Good question? Whose signs and wonders are we watching?
Tell me why we don't go at the Bible the same way? Dig, dig deeper, read commentaries ON HERE or read commentaries on Google. Just type scripture verse and type, commentary after it.
The Holy Spirit is your TEACHER. Ask Him. If you'll sit still long enough and be quiet, you will get answers.
PRAY for a TEACHABLE spirit.
Get a KJV Study Bible that has Center of Each page, reference columns: with the abc notes imbedded within the scriptures. Those send you to other scriptures that EXPAND the meanings or reveal a prophesy.
Back Arrow out of this room to the Search Box. Go to the top.
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Learn to study! For yourselves. Share what you find, on here. IT IS FUN! God speaks to us through His Word.
When you sit down to study: you pray: "I HAVE THE SAME MIND OF CHRIST !!" I receive it by faith right now. God watches over His Word To Perform it.
Habakkuk 2:2-4.
You will find your Identity in the Bible.
You gotta get plugged into the Holy Spirit. Depend on Him. Pursue Him. Be quiet and Listen To Him.
Skip Wikipedia. It's wordy and not always biblical.
Lizbeth, May the Spirit grace you with His wisdom and His understanding.
Revelations 22:16 I JESUS SENT mine angel to testify unto you (you are the CHURCH) these things in the CHURCHES......
There might be a reason there is no mention of the rapture.
Do you think the un-called study God's word.
1 Peter 1:21 WHO (YOU) by HIM (CHRIST) do BELIEVE.........
Galatians 2:16 KNOWING that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by THE FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST, even we have BELIEVED (by HIM) in Jesus Christ, that we might be JUSTIFIED (not by the law) but by THE FAITH OF CHRIST (by him), and not the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Jesus GIVES you HIS FAITH
Revelation 2:26 And he (the church) that overcometh, and keepeth MY WORKS (remember it's his faith, his wisdom, his truth, his understanding, EVERYTHING HE IS becomes yours through inheritance, you are his child) unto the end (when you depart this body of flesh and are given HIS BODY; (HIS) incorruptible and immortality self becomes yours....
This is the rapture of the church (you) each one individually not collectively.
Isaiah 27:12 And it shall come to pass in that day...... ye shall be gathered ONE BY ONE...
Matthew 24:40 There shall be two in the field; the one shall be taken and the other left.
Revelation 20:5-6 .... this is the first resurrection.
(vs 5) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection.....
Remember he gives you what is his; therefore he gives us his resurrection.
Isaiah 26:19 Thy dead men shall LIVE together with MY DEAD BODY SHALL THEY ARISE....
Jesse, I truly believe the same thing about the Church not being mentioned in Revelation. Not one chapter in Revelation is given to the Rapture and I can't think that God would let his church be subjected to that kind of horrible destruction the Earth will see. In 1 Thessalonians chapter 5 verse 9 it states "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ". Thank you for your reply. I feel comforted by it.
Thank you for that correction as only half of that statement I made was accurate. They did "speak with tongues, and magnify God" as in Acts 10:46. Although the Holy Ghost fell on them who heard the word. Acts 10:44. Before they were baptized with water, not after, as I stated. For it is not water baptism, by men, that people receive the Holy Ghost. It is a spiritual baptism of the Lord.
Although I myself cannot be sure but it wouldn't surprise me that I'm not the only child of God you have rejected. Only God knows.
I share your view on the timing of the rapture. 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4 tells us there will be a rapture, so we know that. If you've read through the events in the book Revelation, where God's wrath is being poured out on a non-believing world, you can see what a horrible time that will be.
It doesn't matter how many times you read through those chapters which detail God's Judgment and wrath being poured out, but you will not find any mention of the church during that time.
I lean towards a pre-tribulation Rapture because I don't believe God is going to pour out His judgment on us. If you take a look at 1 Thessalonians 5:9, ask yourself who the "us" is speaking of. We know what wrath is. But has God appointed, or set aside a time for us to go through His wrath?
Reading through Revelation, you have to wonder how anyone would survive. Some questions I would ask are: where is the church mentioned during this time? If we are going to go through the 7-year Tribulation Period, what would our function be? It wouldn't be to preach the gospel to those who are about to be judged so harshly for their unbelief.
God does not need us here during that time. He already has a plan to reach people before it's too late. The bible tells us that there will be two witnesses that will be preaching the gospel. There will be 144,000 Jews whom God will seal so that they cannot be harmed. They also will be warning people. And if that's not enough, it says that there will be an angel flying around mid-heaven for 3-1/2 years warning people.
So you see, there would be no need for us to be here during that horrible time when God pours His wrath out on this world. God has not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.
Again, there is no mention of the church during the time that God's wrath is being poured out. The next time I see mention of the church is when Christ comes back at His second coming, and we come back with Him!
OnlytruthintheworldKJV - In Reply on Mark 3 - 3 years ago
Greetings in Jesus' name, Ron,
So Jesus came to confirm the covenant for one week, but in the midst of the week he was cut off (3.5 yrs into His ministry) but not for himself (for His Bride, and the Virgins and Guests).
So there remains 3.5 years left of that 70th week which is the great tribulation. This is referenced and lines up with scripture in the Revelation (a time, times & half a time, or 1260 days).
Not quite sure how you think that the 70th week ended in Acts 10 as there is no reference of time between the day of Pentecost (when the New Testament/ Covenant began) and Acts 10..? (Atleast that I can see).
God was Jesus father , Mary his mother . Believe it or not that's the confirmed truth of the bible .
A. I can appreciate your understanding, where the example given by Paul of the Assyrian siege was to alert the Corinthians that the unknown tongue was given as a sign (to those that believe not), but it was also given as a condemnation to their improper use of the Gift, when an uninterpreted Tongue has no value in the Church & would be spoken as an unintelligible sound to all, as it was heard by Ephraim in captivity. And that was the whole point of 1 Corinthians 14.
B. I quoted the early Church fathers purely to show that the Trinity teaching didn't emanate from Constantine or others, but was believed right from the apostolic era.
That was interesting that you mentioned, "There is no issue with the divinity of Christ. The deity of Christ is His Father: God." Lest we're splitting hairs, are we not saying the same thing? That for Christ to be Divine, He would have his origins from within the Godhead? That the Trinity teaching speaks of One God from Whom emanates His Word & His Spirit - not three separate deities, but One God who is only One & manifests Himself in Three personalities. That any One of them cannot think, will or act independently or contrary to the other, since the Three are One (in Essence, in Purpose, in Mind).
I don't support the Oneness (Jesus Only) belief, which generally believe that Jesus is now only seen as God, having assumed the place of the Father & the Spirit.
That the "Word was made flesh", I believe was at His conception in Mary's womb & not at His baptism. And to state: 'Jesus had only one Father - God, from Whom Jesus, the Word, proceeded & was born of God to be made Man'. Jesus was eternally God's Word but chosen to be made flesh for our sakes. The point being: did Jesus come from within the Divine to be Man, or was He specially created by God & then infilled with the Divine at His Baptism? Blessings.
I agree that Jesus is as the bible and God himself declares that Jesus is the Son of God .
And even Jesus declared that God was and is his father .
The problem is that the spirit of truth only can understand this .
The spirit of error was very evident in the Roman Catholic Church . The trinity doctrine was the spirit of error that will never acknowledge the truth . It can not . Only those that have God dwelling in them can acknowledge Jesus as the Son of God . And not add to it more or take away from it .
1st John is loaded with who Jesus is . This subject has been on this web site before , but few of any things changed .
Jesus said continue in my word and the truth will set you free ! Amen
The 70 weeks of 7= 490 years. 483 years when Jesus was baptized. History places this around 29AD. Jesus' ministry was 3 years by the number of Passovers Jesus went to according to scriptures. We are at 486 years. Stephen's death is recorded around 36AD. This is around the same time Jesus stopped confirming the New Covenant through is Apostils and Peter had his dream and went to Cornelius and the gospel went to the Gentiles.
This prophecy was determined upon Israel and Jerusalem not the world, and these six things were to be fulfilled. See for yourself if these were fulfilled by Jesus. 1 To finish the transgression ( Isaiah 53:5, 8) ( Hebrews 9:15-18) 2. To make an end of sins ( Matthew 1:21) ( Hebrews 10:8-11) ( 1 John 3:5) ( Romans 8:3) 3. To make reconciliation for iniquity ( Colossians 1:20-22) ( Isaiah 53:6) ( Titus 2:14) ( 2 Corinthians 5:18-19) 4. To bring in everlasting righteousness ( Romans 5:17-21) ( 2 Corinthians 5:21) 5. To seal up vision and prophecy ( Daniel 9:23) ( John 6:27) ( Mark 1:14-15) 6. To anoint the most holy ( Hebrews 9:6-14).
The 3 years in Revelation starts when Satan is cast down and gives his power to the beast, not connected with the 70 weeks. If not clear its ok.
God bless Andrew, Ron
All glory and honor to His mighty saving name! O/!
Thanks for the encouragement.
Yea we must proclaim the truth in love.
Ezekiel 33:6 KJV
But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.
Jesus is returning to catch up a virgin chaste spotless bride of believers who are baptized in His name & filled with His Spirit. I pray that I will persevere to the end and can warn & lead as many others as the Lord wills into the fold.
For He is also returning:
"In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that (a.) know not God, and that (b.) obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:"
2 Thessalonians 1:8
If someone believes Jesus Christ the Son of God is a "pre-incarnate" "co-equal" deity of a "triune" triple God, then they (a.) don't know God ( Matthew 7:21-22).
And if they haven't been baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins ( Acts 2:38), then they (b.) haven't obeyed His gospel.
Be encouraged Sacha.
Be well, in Jesus' name.
I'm joyful to know that my messages have blessed you. Glory to God.
If I can serve you in any way in the gospel and/or doctrine of Jesus Christ don't hesitate to let me know.
Be well, in Jesus' mighty saving name,
Andrew
A. Paul makes no reference to a warning about the Assyrian siege & hearing the word of God in other languages (the Assyrians were pagans, and the word of God was been only written in Hebrew).
Paul is showing forth that Isaiah's prophecy is showing that tongues are for a sign to them that believe not.
B. You say you appeal to the scriptures, yet cleave to doctrines of men such as Tertullian etc. Both Tertullian and Sabellius (originator of the oneness/modalism heresy) were theologians/witchdoctors & wolves crept in unawares.
There is no issue with the divinity of Christ. The deity of Christ is His Father: God.
2 Corinthians 5:19 (KJV) 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation
God was in Christ.
It doesnt say God was Christ or Christ was God. It says Christ was/is the Son of God. Flesh and blood cannot reveal this to you.
This is the very definition of the word Christ: the annointed one.
He was annointed with the Holy Spirit of His Father @ his baptism by John in the Jordan river. Hallelujah!
That was when the Word (God) was made flesh.
He then began his 3.5 year ministry of miracles signs and wonders.
Furthermore as per the heretical doctrine of the "trinity": there are 3 "co-equal triune" deities.
Matthew 1:18 KJV
18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
So did Jesus have two Fathers?
"God the Holy Ghost" AND God the Father (the only true God)..???
I beseech you in the name of Jesus Christ to come away from the teachings of men & rome (MYSTERY BABYLON MOTHER OF HARLOTS) and all her "protestant" daughters, & read & believe the word of God AS IT IS WRITTEN.
This is your 2nd & final admonition.
I will pray for you, Chris, & I remain here for you in the gospel of Jesus Christ ( Acts 2:38)
Be well.
Re: A. Indeed, Paul refers to Isaiah 28:11,12 though it has to be understood why he referenced it in 1 Corinthians 14:21. Ephraim was warned that because of their sins they would be carried into the Assyrian captivity where they would hear strange languages. This was a judgment against them: both the captivity & hearing God's Word in a language they didn't understand. So Paul uses that warning to Ephraim for the abuse of the Gift of other Tongues in the Corinthian Church. When the Gift ought to be used correctly (i.e. with interpretation) for the edifying of the Church, the Corinthians disregarded that & uttered in a manner that was unintelligible, resembling the confusion & nonsense that Ephraim was subjected to. So Isaiah's prophecy wasn't an authority for the future Gift of other Tongues but a warning to the Church to use the Gift correctly or else it would be of no use ( 1 Corinthians 14:7-11).
B: The Trinity. Whether of the 'Babylonian trinity' or 'Constantine's invention at the Council of Nicaea', I care little, since my appeal is to the Scriptures & I added the testimony of a couple of the early Church fathers. True, there is only one God & there is one Mediator between God & men, but we still have a problem when Scriptures reveal the Divinity of this Man Jesus. Even in John1:1-14, how can we disregard the Word of God, issued out of the Essence of God Himself, being sent forth into the World in a body of flesh. Is that impossible for God or could it be that our minds have difficulty in comprehending such a miracle? Also, could not God have provided another lamb (a special one-off creation & of complete purity) to be sacrificed for sinners? Why create a new sinless man for that purpose? Or, maybe it has something to do with the declaration of God's Love in the giving of Himself when no other sacrifice would be acceptable to Him. Philippians 2:5-11 is another compelling Scripture. Blessings to you.
Please forgive me not replying sooner, but I didn't see you had addressed your message to me due to the abbreviation.
A.
So concerning Isaiah 28:11-12. If this is not prophesying of the Holy Ghost as you claim; then why does Paul quote it in 1st Corinthians when speaking about the Holy Ghost and speaking in tongues?
1 Corinthians 14:21-22
21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
Jesus himself said that those who believe will speak in other tongues: Mark 16:17
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
B.
As per your claim that the apostles believed in a "trinity" of gods, that is heresy. Every Jew (including Jesus) was taught from an early age on that there is only one God in reciting the Shema ( Deut. 6:4) Jesus quoted it in Mark 12:29:
And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The LORD our God is one LORD:
Paul (also raised as a devout Jew under Gamaliel) also understood this:
1 Timothy 2:5
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1 God + 1 man (in whom God dwelt - 2 Cor 5:19) does not = 3 "gods".
Research the pagan trinity of babylon (Nimrod, Semiramis & Tammuz) and how Constantine united pagans and "christians" @ the same time he was slaughtering Christians because they were just growing stronger the more he had them killed.
Numbers 23:19
19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
God did not become a man. God is a Spirit ( John 4:24).
Thank you Jesse for your help and time.
I am not sure who posted that, but it does look like it is word for word of what I posted a long while back.
To answer your question, I would have to say that we are already married to Him. We (The Church) are His bride now, present tense. We're just waiting for Him to come for us. Once He does, there will be a wedding feast in heaven and we will be there.
For the Jewish people, the marriage was different than what we see marriage to be today in our western world way of thinking. For them, once you became engaged, it was the same as being legally married. There was a one year period of separation between the bride and groom called a "time of purity." This was to make sure that the bride was not pregnant.
Do you remember in Matthew Chapter 1 when the angel appeared to Joseph in a dream and said do no fear to take unto thee Mary thy wife? This was during the 1 year engagement when Mary was pregnant. We would see it as them being engaged but not married yet. But the angel said "Mary Thy wife." They were already married. They were betrothed.
We are His bride now. One day when the Father says go and get your bride, He will come for us. And we will never be separated from Him. Our marriage to Christ is eternal. That marriage began the moment we received Christ.
"Keep your OIL topped off. Don't use it for French fries!" You made me laugh with that one. I love your humor. You do make some great points. My belief is that our oil will always be full. Our lamps will always be kept trimmed and burning because Christ in us is the light that shines and cannot be extinguished!
Revelation 22:16 I JESUS have sent my angel to testify unto you (you are the church) these things (that are revealed; by Revelation) in the CHURCHES....
Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him (Christ), to show unto his servants (Christ's inheritance; Psalms 2:8) things which much SHORTLY (during your lifetime) come to pass......
1 Peter 1:21 WHO (YOU) by HIM (CHRIST) do BELIEVE....
Galatians 2:16 KNOWING that a man is not justified by the works of the law, BUT BY THE FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST, even we have BELIEVED (by HIM) in Jesus Christ, that we might be JUSTIFIED by THE FAITH OF Jesus Christ......
Christ has given you HIS FAITH
Revelation 2:26 And he (you; the church) that overcomes and keeps MY WORKS (remember he gives us HIS faith, His truth, His wisdom, His understanding, His council, everything that is HIS he gives to us as our inheritance; we are his children) unto the END (when you leave this body of flesh at it's death; now he is going to give you HIS BODY; HIS incorruptible and immortal self ( 1 Timothy 6:16)......
Revelation 20:5-6 .... This is the FIRST resurrection.
(vs 6) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the FIRST resurrection....
Remember he gives us what is HIS; he gives us HIS RESURRECTION. ( John 11:25)
Isaiah 26:19 Thy dead men shall LIVE, together with MY DEAD BODY SHALL THEY ARISE...
This is the rapture of the church (you) individually not collectively.
Isaiah 27:12 ...ye shall be gathered ONE BY ONE....
Mathew 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken and the other left.
1 Corinthians 12:27 Now we are THE BODY OF CHRIST.....
1 Corinthians 3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours (THROUGH THE WORKS OF CHRIST)
Thank you for your time and understanding.
Carleton
These are actual 7 steps of a Jewish wedding.
1. First, the Jewish groom barters with the father of the bride. They get together and they go back-and-forth, and barter as to what the deal is going to be.
2. Once they reach an agreement, the future bride is brought in. And if she approves of it, all three of them drink out of the covenant cup, which means from that time forward they are betrothed.
3. The groom goes back to his father's house to build their living quarters. It is built right off of the family home. And once the wedding takes place, and they are now married, they will go back to his family's home, and there will be living quarters that will be for them.
4. The father of the groom decides when the living quarters are done, and when he can go get his bride. What does that tell us? We don't know the time or the hour. It has to be a minimum of one year because it is a time of purity for her. The groom can go get his bride when his father decides it's time.
5. When the marriage announcement is made, catch this: the people who have already been invited to the wedding feast, they take their positions along the parade route, because the groom is going to get his bride. And there are people stationed in position all the way along the route. They join the parade as it passes by. It is called a parade.
6. When the groom reaches the bride's house, he stands at a distance and blows the shofar, the trumpet, for the bride to come out and meet him. And the wedding takes place at that time. Do you see anything in there about prophecy? The groom comes to get his bride, and he stands a ways off and blows the trumpet, and she comes out to meet him.
7. The parade goes back to the groom's house and the wedding feast begins. All of the guests in the parade gather in the Fellowship Hall, and the door is shut. This is not an open public thing. It is for guests who ACCEPTED THE INVITATION.
MATTHEW 25
Type in: caught up, in the clouds, day of the Lord;
Bride.
You will find an abundance of scriptures to study. I found in the Gospels, the story Jesus tells of the 10 virgins to be helpful with timing.
Believers are the Bride of Christ. We are to be saved, washed in the blood of Jesus: without spot or wrinkle in our wedding apparel. We're to have our lamps FULL with the oil of joy, the Holy Spirit provides.
In Jewish weddings, when all preparations had been readied, THE GROOMS FATHER stood up and told the BRIDEGROOM to go get his Bride.
In the prophesy calendar of times: the Groom and Bride attend the Wedding Feast. Everyone INVITED by the Groom (born again believers only) is allowed into the Banquet.
So this creates a timing problem for some people. I'm seeing in scripture: getting ready, looking up for his arrival, wedding dress on, lamps full, knowing the signs of the Times. Matthew 24
The Bride of Christ may endure some of the beginning of Sorrows, such as natural disasters, corona virus, locusts, things like that. We've got vaccinations, bug killer and storm cellars. With wisdom we'll get through the approach of THE DAY. Keep your OIL topped off. Don't use it for French fries!
I do not believe the Lord Jesus Christ or Father God, are going to make the Bride be tempted by the Antichrist or False Prophet. Satan is the Beast. Evil will follow immediately after the Bride arrives at the Wedding Feast. Out of their reach.
Jesus descends into the clouds to catch up His Bride. Do scripture search on: "In The Clouds"
Jesus's FEET DO NOT TOUCH EARTH. He is in the clouds. Off go the Bridegroom with His Bride to the Wedding Feast.
I haven't read this in a book. This is strictly from my own studies when I was trying to figure out pre, mid, post rapture. We are told HAVE THAT OIL FULL, BE READY TODAY. Get born again NOW.
Copy Paste this to friends, family, pastor
Blessings
Guard your mind, heart and eyes. Christians should not view slop on Saturday and sing in Church on Sunday. Don't let your kids watch it.
There is an alternative to watching Netflix. It's called PUREFLIX. I highly recommend it. It's not corny or lame. It's entertaining and doesn't pollute your soul. There's movies for the guys too! You can view the Free Trial for 10 days.
In Deuteronomy 28: God says, Choose Life, so that you and your children may live.
2 Thessalonians 2:9 - [Even him], whose coming is after the working of SATAN with all power and signs and LYING wonders,
Matthew 24:24 - For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very ELECT (us).
2 Timothy 3:1-5 - This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. (Read More...)
Acts 2:22 - Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
Revelation 16:14 - For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, [which] go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
Mark 13:22 - For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if [it were] possible, even the elect. (YOU)
John 4:48 - Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.
Good question? Whose signs and wonders are we watching?
Mishael
The Holy Spirit is your TEACHER. Ask Him. If you'll sit still long enough and be quiet, you will get answers.
PRAY for a TEACHABLE spirit.
Get a KJV Study Bible that has Center of Each page, reference columns: with the abc notes imbedded within the scriptures. Those send you to other scriptures that EXPAND the meanings or reveal a prophesy.
Back Arrow out of this room to the Search Box. Go to the top.
Put a scripture in it or just a word (like worms) hit the arrow. The search engine will pull up ALL verses with 'worms' in it.
Touch or click the verse and it will highlight yellow.
Scroll downward to the Commentary Box. Click that. It will show you what the scholars interpret that scripture to mean. If there isn't one, then exit and do the same thing on GOOGLE. Type the scripture and spell out Commentary, or History, or Teaching.
Questions answered. It makes studying fun and interesting.
You cannot get lost. Use the back arrow or just exit this site and come back in Again.
There's a quickie link from KJV to Google to help you find a scripture you're unsure about. Access that through the SEARCH BOX. Like: "Many are called but few are chosen."
Learn to study! For yourselves. Share what you find, on here. IT IS FUN! God speaks to us through His Word.
When you sit down to study: you pray: "I HAVE THE SAME MIND OF CHRIST !!" I receive it by faith right now. God watches over His Word To Perform it.
Habakkuk 2:2-4.
You will find your Identity in the Bible.
You gotta get plugged into the Holy Spirit. Depend on Him. Pursue Him. Be quiet and Listen To Him.
Skip Wikipedia. It's wordy and not always biblical.
Revelations 22:16 I JESUS SENT mine angel to testify unto you (you are the CHURCH) these things in the CHURCHES......
There might be a reason there is no mention of the rapture.
Do you think the un-called study God's word.
1 Peter 1:21 WHO (YOU) by HIM (CHRIST) do BELIEVE.........
Galatians 2:16 KNOWING that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by THE FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST, even we have BELIEVED (by HIM) in Jesus Christ, that we might be JUSTIFIED (not by the law) but by THE FAITH OF CHRIST (by him), and not the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Jesus GIVES you HIS FAITH
Revelation 2:26 And he (the church) that overcometh, and keepeth MY WORKS (remember it's his faith, his wisdom, his truth, his understanding, EVERYTHING HE IS becomes yours through inheritance, you are his child) unto the end (when you depart this body of flesh and are given HIS BODY; (HIS) incorruptible and immortality self becomes yours....
This is the rapture of the church (you) each one individually not collectively.
Isaiah 27:12 And it shall come to pass in that day...... ye shall be gathered ONE BY ONE...
Matthew 24:40 There shall be two in the field; the one shall be taken and the other left.
Revelation 20:5-6 .... this is the first resurrection.
(vs 5) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection.....
Remember he gives you what is his; therefore he gives us his resurrection.
Isaiah 26:19 Thy dead men shall LIVE together with MY DEAD BODY SHALL THEY ARISE....
Although I myself cannot be sure but it wouldn't surprise me that I'm not the only child of God you have rejected. Only God knows.
Thank you for your time.
God Bless you.
I share your view on the timing of the rapture. 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4 tells us there will be a rapture, so we know that. If you've read through the events in the book Revelation, where God's wrath is being poured out on a non-believing world, you can see what a horrible time that will be.
It doesn't matter how many times you read through those chapters which detail God's Judgment and wrath being poured out, but you will not find any mention of the church during that time.
I lean towards a pre-tribulation Rapture because I don't believe God is going to pour out His judgment on us. If you take a look at 1 Thessalonians 5:9, ask yourself who the "us" is speaking of. We know what wrath is. But has God appointed, or set aside a time for us to go through His wrath?
Reading through Revelation, you have to wonder how anyone would survive. Some questions I would ask are: where is the church mentioned during this time? If we are going to go through the 7-year Tribulation Period, what would our function be? It wouldn't be to preach the gospel to those who are about to be judged so harshly for their unbelief.
God does not need us here during that time. He already has a plan to reach people before it's too late. The bible tells us that there will be two witnesses that will be preaching the gospel. There will be 144,000 Jews whom God will seal so that they cannot be harmed. They also will be warning people. And if that's not enough, it says that there will be an angel flying around mid-heaven for 3-1/2 years warning people.
So you see, there would be no need for us to be here during that horrible time when God pours His wrath out on this world. God has not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.
Again, there is no mention of the church during the time that God's wrath is being poured out. The next time I see mention of the church is when Christ comes back at His second coming, and we come back with Him!
So Jesus came to confirm the covenant for one week, but in the midst of the week he was cut off (3.5 yrs into His ministry) but not for himself (for His Bride, and the Virgins and Guests).
So there remains 3.5 years left of that 70th week which is the great tribulation. This is referenced and lines up with scripture in the Revelation (a time, times & half a time, or 1260 days).
Not quite sure how you think that the 70th week ended in Acts 10 as there is no reference of time between the day of Pentecost (when the New Testament/ Covenant began) and Acts 10..? (Atleast that I can see).
I hope this helps.
Be well, sir,
Andrew