Jesus was conceived of the Holy Ghost, Matthew 1:20 of the seed of a woman/Mary, Genesis 3:15, and born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God, John 1:13. Jesus grew up the same way that we do, Luke 2:40.
He was subject to the pulls of the flesh. He was tempted and influenced by Satan, Luke 4:1-2. He had a will and human desires, Luke 22:41-42. Although Jesus was filled without measure with the power of the Holy Ghost, and gave all things into his hand, John 3:34-35 Jesus humbled Himself and was obedient unto death, Philippians 2:5-11.
To be the payment for sins of man and to be the Savior of mankind and destroy the works of the devil, Jesus had to be a human, Hebrews 2:14-18, the promise God made was to Abraham and his seed, that was Jesus the Messiah/Christ, Galatians 3:16.
Jesus the last Adam came into this world sinless as the first Adam and had to be laden with what we are as humans. The man Jesus, Romans 5:15, had to endure and overcome sin and rise above the influences of Satan to become the payment for the sins and this atonement made way for our deliverance from Satan's bondage, Romans 3:21-26.
He also was prepared to be a merciful and faithful High Priest, Hebrews 4:14-16. God sent His own Son to condemn sin in the flesh that the law could not do that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled, Romans 8:3-4.
Jesus the Son of God a human being had to deal with life as we do. He lived in the same time, space, and constraints as we do. He was born under the law, He became tired, He became hungry, He was subject to persecution, subject to pain, subject to the Roman rulers, He had to deal with all the things the same way we do, and all was the for the will of the Father, not His, Matthew 26:42.
Only in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth do we have hope, and are saved, Acts 4:12.
Daniel 9:24-27, in this prophecy, there are seventy weeks or 490 years determined unto Daniel's people and the holy city to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Have these 6 things been fulfilled in Jesus the Messiah, and the judgment of it carried out in 70 AD? If so, all of this prophecy has been fulfilled in the past.
1 To finish the transgression. To break or violate, as a law, civil or moral; the act of transgressing. Psalms 32:1Isaiah 53:5-11Romans 4:14-15Galatians 3:18-19Hebrews 9:14-15.
2 To make an end to sins. Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Matthew 1:21Hebrews 10:8-11John 1:291 Corinthians 15:31 John 3:5Psalm 32:1Romans 3:21-26Romans 8:3.
3 To make reconciliation for iniquity. Reconciliation is an element of salvation that refers to the results of the atonement. Colossians 1:20-22Isaiah 53:6Isaiah 53:11Romans 5:11Ephesians 2:16Titus 2:142 Corinthians 5:18-19.
4 To bring in everlasting righteousness. In conformity to the demands of the covenant and according to God's will. Isaiah 61:10-11Romans 3:21-26Romans 5:17-212 Corinthians 5:211 Peter 2:24.
5 To seal up the vision and prophecy. The greatest prediction, which runs like a golden thread through the whole contents of the Old Testament, is that regarding the coming and work of the Messiah, Jesus. Daniel 9:23Matthew 11:11-15Mark 1:14-15John 5:36-40John 6:27Acts 3:18.
6 To anoint the most holy. The high priest went into the holy of holies once a year with the blood of a sacrificed bull. Jesus our high priest with His own blood anointed the most holy not made with hands once and for all, forever. Hebrews 9:6-14.
The past weeks I have taken much time in Scripture to once again find out what it teaches on the deity of Jesus. It is very important to me to believe what the Scriptures do say as the basis for my belief in Jesus. Jesus asks us to believe in Him, and to me, this means believing the truth about Him from Scripture as well as trusting in Him for salvation. So, in the following posts I will accept what the Scriptures say about Jesus' nature. What does the Scriptures say concerning Jesus in this view?
First, I will bring forward some OT prophecies concerning Jesus:
Psalm 45:6
"Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre."
The writer of Hebrews applies this prophecy to Jesus in 1:8
"But unto the Son, he (God) saith: "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre ofthy kingdom."
Verses 9-13 goes on to speak of the Son as creating the foundations of the earth and of the heavens; that the Son will fold these up again, and bring about the changed to them; but the Son is changeless and eternal.
Isaiah 7:14 gives a prophecy concerning Jesus.
"Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign: Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and they shall call him Immanuel."
Matthew 1:22-23 cites this prophecy as being fulfilled in Jesus, who is Emmanuel (another spelling of Immanuel) which means "God with us."
isaiah 9:6 prophesies that:
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, the Mighty God, The Everlasting Gather, the Prince of Peace"
Here, Isaiah the prophecy of vs. 9:14 is extended and still refers to Immanuel who Jesus is. In this verse Jesus is called Mighty God (an OT name for God) along with the Everlasting Father: (which shows Immanuel's oneness with the Father as Jesus said that "I and the Father are one" in John 10:30. cont. to pt. 3
Yes, Jesus is of the tribe of Judah and the line of David who was of the tribe of Judah, you can read the genealogy in Matthew 1:1-17 and Luke 3:21-38. Jesus the Son of God was made of a woman, made under the law, Galatians 4:4. Not sure about your question was Jesus a Jew? Today when we hear the word Jew it is taken to mean anyone who is of the religion of Judaism regardless of their genealogy.
The same when we hear the word Gentile or Gentiles, we think of anyone who is not a Jew but there are more to these words. After Soloman died the tribes of Israel divided into the northern and southern kingdoms. The southern kingdom was the tribes of Judah and Benjamin and the Levites tended to the temple; it is called the kingdom of Judah. When they were taken captive by Babylon, the slang term began to be used. Jew is an abbreviated slang term for Judahite, a resident of the southern kingdom of Judah.
The name of our Savior, Jesus that means "YHWH saves" Matthew 1:21-23 and Luke 1:31-32 the angel Gabriel told Mary to name the Son of God so that it may be fulfilled that was spoken of the LORD by the prophet Isaiah 7:14. they shall call His name Immanuel meaning God with us, nothing has changed. Jesus comes from the Hebrew word Yehoshua same as Jehoshua or Joshua, the Greek form is Iesous English is before the letter J it was Iesus now Jesus, it is just transliteration or translation from one language to another.
There were many back then with that name but only this Jesus is referred to as Jesus Christ or Christ Jesus, in Hebrew Yehoshua Moshiach, who is the Son of God, Jesus's identity, and His mission that His Father sent Him to do. The name Immanuel means with us is God, the presence of God in His Son that we see in the New Testament not His personal name. Like Jesus told Philip in John 14:7-11.
This is my understanding maybe others will have other comments, pray, and study, truth comes only from the Spirit of truth.
While Lazarus figures in a Parable we have the healing of a blind beggar and he is named. As his name Bartimeaus implies he is the son of Timaeus. He is addressing "Thou son of David, have mercy on me." The son of David informs it is a request from a man in need of the Son of man.. Matthew 1:1 gives us the generation of Jesus Christ in which he is the son of Abraham and the son of David. Two names representing his Alpha Omega aspect.
Jesus first would want Bartimeaus speak out what specifically he needed."(Jesus)said unto him, What wilt thou that I should do unto thee? The blind man said unto him, Lord, that I might receive my sight./And Jesus said unto him, Go thy way; thy faith hath made thee whole. And immediately he received his sight." The Spirit here gives the fulfilment of the word of God, "He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions."(Ps.107:20) Compare this with his healing of the man with palsy by the pool of Bethesda. "And immediately the man was made whole."( John 5;9) There also the Spirit mentions 'immediately' referring to the ministry of Jesus, theword become flesh. In this context what shall we make of the Psalm quote? It is the word of God of which the Holy Spirit instructs us, "For ever, OLord, thy word is settled in heaven."(Ps.119:89)
"Immediately' as used profusely in the Gospel is as loaded as the term "now" referring to Jesus as the word become flesh.
The gospel thus reached Bartemaeus. So the Spirit adds,"and followed Jesus in the way."
What is the meaning of created? Does it mean something that is made out of nothing? I would have to say no, Jesus is the Son of God who was conceived in the womb of Mary, Matthew 1:20Luke 1:35, I do not think I would say He was created.
If so, when did He come into existence?
In God's plan before anything and physically when He was conceived in Mary's womb.
Do you believe that the Son is only human in nature?
Jesus is the Son of God fully human but without sin same as the first Adam, Scripture is clear when Jesus was baptized, He was anointed with the Holy Ghost/Spirit without measure, John 3:34. All the works of Jesus were done by the Spirit of God, Matthew 4:16Matthew 12:28Acts 10:38.
Do you believe that Jesus became "the Christ" during His lifetime (Adoptionism)?
I had never heard of Adoptionism until now, I had to look it up, it's false. Christ and Messiah are the same; Jesus was anointed by the Spirit of God after He was baptized by John, He then was made the Messiah/Christ fulfilling the prophecy in Daniel 9:25. Jesus is the Son of God conceived in the womb of Mary by the Holy Ghost/Spirit.
Do you believe Jesus ever aquired a divine nature in His earthly life?
If you mean a divine nature is to have all the attributes that make God who He is I would have to say no. If so, Jesus could not sin or be tempted, Matthew 4:1Hebrews 4:15. If so, Jesus living a perfect life without sin is meaningless. Jesus could not have died; Jesus was given the power of the Holy Spirit when He was anointed the Messiah. After He rose from the dead God gave Jesus all power in heaven and on earth, Matthew 28:18. God raised and placed Jesus on His right side, Ephesians 1:21-23. Jesus did not return to where He was before, God the Father placed everything under Jesus God's only begotten Son's feet and Jesus will reign until the last enemy is destroyed, 1 Corinthians 15:24-28.
Did Jesus exist before creation? Did the Holy Spirit exist before creation?
Jesus existed in God's plan, Jesus is the beginning of creation Rev. 3:14 and by Him were all things created Col. 1:16 my understanding is Jesus, was the first in God's plan of creation and everything was created by God, in and through the plan and purpose of Jesus. My understanding Jesus did not physically exist until the fullness of time. Ephesians 1:10 He was born of Mary the Son of God. the seed of woman. Genesis 3:15Matthew 1:20
My understanding is the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God, not a person, Genesis 1:2. We see all the greetings are from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. Romans 1:71 Corinthians 1:32 Corinthians 1:2Galatians 1:3Ephesians 1:2Ephesians 6:23Philippians 1:2Colossians 1:2 and 6 more. The Holy Spirit not being included is a good clue the Holy Spirit was not considered a person by Paul and others at that time.
If so, who were they in relation to the Father?
I believe the above answers this.
How did the Father, the Son, and the Spirit all create all that is, seen or unseen?
My understanding is God the Father created all, Genesis 1:1Genesis 1:31Proverbs 16:4Isaiah 45:18Nehemiah 9:6.
Does Scripture teach that God is only one person who manifests in three forms, but all these manifestations are only one person?
Scripture does not support Modalism I have never considered this and do not know anything about it.
It seems you have the Bible only in your hands,but have not the Word of GOD in heart.This explain why you believe in esoteric,and kabbalistic,and spiritists,AND FICTITIOUS names of God, which Satan stealthy introduced in the OT, in Torah,Jewish Scriptures-Tanack,as if were names of the true GOD,but are fictitious NAMES from your heart are JEHOVAH,YAHWEH,YHWH,ADONAI,EL SHADAI,HaSHEM.Terrible.
The words that proceede from your heart is from a human perspective,a stumblingblock-Genesis3:1-not from GOD's perspective- Matthew 16:23.Your testimony of GOD's Word signifies nothing and is good for nothing.In fact,what I reply here is because of the readers, not you.What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD,the Word is GOD Himself- John 1:1 combined with 1John 5:7,and around 2000 years ago He,even GOD Himself, was made flesh and introduced Himself among men by the NAME of JESUS- Matthew 1:21-understand?Isaiah had prophesied, saying:"The Lord Himself shall give you a sign;Behold,a VIRGIN shall conceive,and bear a SON,and shall call His name Immanuel-Is.7:14-(it means: GOD with us).
These Truth torment your esoteric,and kabbalistic, and spiritist spirit,GOD CURSED the Devil,the tree of good and evil,the figtree. JESUS,In His Ministry,said to the Devil:Man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY Word that proceedeth out of the MOUTH of GOD- Matthew 4:4. The Word is GOD, the Word is GOD Himself, and the Word of the MOUTH of GOD is LITERALLY written in 66 books, KING JAMES VERSION is an edition of the book of the Lord, it is called Bible.
Oh no, my Lord JESUS never accused anyone, as you said, also my Lord JESUS NEVER USED the NAMES of Satan you have listed here, these are more false testimonies of you of JESUS's Person, it's the spirit of you is acusing JESUS,he is the Accuser, he has blinded your eyes,your own devilish words leave clear you know not my Lord JESUS.
If the supposed"glorious name Yahweh,as you say"is in your heart, it means the Devil is in your heart.
It is true Ronald, that most of those Scriptures you've cited certainly show that there is only One God & none else. I can wholeheartedly agree with that belief, that we together share in.
You also mentioned the Holy Spirit. Without introducing the Holy Spirit into this thread but for the sake of comparison & meditation, I'm sure you wouldn't deny that God sent out His Spirit to accomplish His Work in the World & in hearts ( John 16:7-11, & others). How can God send out His Spirit, & yet be Who He is, without being grossly deficient in His Being? Is God now Spirit-less since the Holy Spirit has been sent into the World & how can the Spirit also be dissected into millions of 'parts' (Spirits), filling each true believer with Himself, i.e. with God's Presence in them? Likewise, if God can do so with His Spirit & still be Spirit Himself, & this is a mystery to us, can He not also do so with His Word? Does this leave God devoid of knowledge, speech or thought, because He sent out His Word first by the prophets, then in & through His Son? ( Hebrews 1:1-3). The difference here now is, this Word was not just a spoken Word, but the "Word was made flesh". We couldn't say this, nor have read that any prophet of the OT, having received the Word, was made flesh.
With the many Scriptures that have already been given, I find it very reasonable to believe that this Word was treated just as God did with His Spirit. God sent out His Word in the olden days via His prophets, but the time had come when His Word would be sent out in His Son. If all we had was the account in Matthew 1:20-25 that Mary gave birth to a special Son, from the Holy Seed of God, then yes, this appearance of this One called Emmanuel & Jesus, was indeed a fresh creation by God to bring out His Word, not just in speech form, but in demonstration of the Holiness of God, His Power, His Love, & ultimately, His Sacrifice. Onto Page 2.
As I said I am not the best in explaining my understanding and I will try, I feel you deserve it, for you have been gracious to even discuss this with me.
1 Corinthians 15:47 This is after Jesus was raised from the dead and Paul is saying our Lord. First the earthy the first Adam then the spiritual the last Adam Jesus who did come from heaven when Jesus, God's Son was conceived in Mary's womb.
We see in Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Jesus defeated death because He was without sin the firstborn from the dead the only man who lived a perfect life. After He was baptized and anointed God gave Him authority John 5:26-27.
Matthew 1:20Acts 17:31Rev. 12:5 My understanding is the preexistence of Jesus was in God's plan before anything was created. A man caused sin to enter mankind and it had to be a man to live a perfect life to fulfill and make void the law, God could not do that.
Hebrews 1:5 Jesus is not a God there is only one true God, Jesus is the only begotten Son of God. a man who is God's Son conceived in Mary, who God raised in a glorified body and placed Him on His right side on His throne above all that is in heaven and earth and under the earth.
To Brother Ronald Whittemore & others. I'm unable to respond to Ronald's last response to me, as the Reply button is missing (probably purposely done to limit the comments in that thread). So this one comes as a new Thread to address those matters.
Page 1.
Thanks again Ronald, and I note that you would like a recess on this discussion. But if I might briefly address the Scriptures you shared & why I believe that they don't answer the question, 'was Jesus' first appearance only from the womb of Mary, or did He exist in another Form within the Person of God?'
To your references:
1 Corinthians 15:47: "the second man is the Lord from Heaven" (not a Man Who became Lord, Who went into Heaven & then returned to Earth as Lord from Heaven - but the Lord Who was in Heaven & came to Earth, unlike the first man, Adam, Who was created from the Earth & back to the Earth he went).
1 Timothy 2:5: yes, Jesus is the Mediator now between God & mankind after His ascension.
Matthew 1:20, Acts 17:31, Revelation 12:5: yes again, all point to Jesus as a Man/Babe Who came from God - but no direct reference to any previous existence.
Hebrews 1:5: indeed, Jesus became the Son of God by virtue of this miraculous Birth, but then God would have created another god, because 'all the angels of God are to worship Him'; & none can receive worship but God alone. You asked, "How could God say I will be to him a Father and he shall be to me a Son if Jesus eternally existed with the Father?" Because God took His Word & gave Flesh to that Word, and this Flesh was brought into the World by the Work of God, which made this One called Jesus, God's Son. Jesus only became the Son of God at the Incarnation.
Hebrews 2:7: Jesus was made "a little lower than the angels" by virtue of His Humanity. It seems there is an order of created beings before God: the angels being above humanity, of which Jesus was made, thus subjecting Him to being our equal.
I thank you for discussing this and I consider you as a brother in Christ. I do not feel I have represented Scripture in any kind of mystical or spiritual way. I am not trying to convince you, but to explain my understanding. I believe Jesus was a man same as the first Adam without sin, 1 Cor. 15:471 Timothy 2:5 Jesus is the only begotten Son of God miraculously conceived, born of the virgin Mary, Matthew 1:20Acts 17:31Rev. 12:5
Take Hebrews 1: 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father? How could God say I will be to him a Father and he shall be to me a Son if Jesus eternally existed with the Father.
Hebrews 2:7 from Psalms 8:5-6 God the Father made and set Jesus His only begotten Son over all His works of His hands this tells me the Father is the creator. 1 Corinthians 15:24-28Philippians 2:9. To me that is simply saying God the Father is superior and they are not coequal, God the Father highly exalted Jesus His Son.
Christ means He is the Anointed One nothing is above God so God cannot be anointed or anoint Himself, God is the one who anoints, as Jesus was anointed with the full measure of the Holy Spirit/Ghost when He was baptized by John the Baptist. We also see in 1 Corinthians 11:3 This to me shows they are not equal, and God the Father is the head over all.
1 Peter 1:19-21 If Jesus preexisted how could he be foreordained? Eph. 1:10
Chris, I may could say more, maybe we can pick this back up again, but I hope you have some idea of my understanding, this is not to end this but just to pause I hope that is ok.
Jesus to me is Devine He is the Devine only begotten Son of God. He has been placed over all that is in heaven and earth and every knee will bow to Him. You do not think He had a beginning; I believe His beginning was in God's plan before any creation and was brought forth in the fulness of time.
Hi Cheryl1655. What you have asked does seem confusing to most casual readers of the Bible. But there are two possible explanations so as to understand a little better about Lot's daughters.
a. It is possible that Lot had four daughters: two were still living at home with their parents ( Genesis 19:12, when the angels asked Lot if he had any other 'family' besides those they could see there with him; and Genesis 19:15, the angels urged Lot to quickly bring out his wife & his two daughters WHICH ARE HERE, i.e. present in the house with them). So, maybe from these verses we can assume that Lot had four daughters: two virgins living with him & two living with their husbands, & these could have perished with their husbands because of their refusal to leave Sodom.
b. The other possibility is that Lot only had two daughters, but they were not married to their (future) husbands, but were betrothed to them. As you probably know, that in those days & in that culture, when two people were bethrothed (engaged) to each other, they were considered as a married couple, only because of the binding commitment that such an engagement required, & not by actually living & sleeping together. We can remember the account of Joseph & Mary ( Matthew 1:18,19) where Joseph's espousal to Mary was considered as a marriage, though they didn't live together, yet, Joseph was still intending to "put away" (divorce) Mary for her supposed infidelity. But the Angel of the Lord intervened quick smart to stop him acting foolishly.
You can examine these options before you & decide for yourself. My leaning is to the latter, of Job having only two daughters, betrothed to men, but choosing to leave them in preference to what the Angel had warned them concerning God's Wrath over the city.
1 Corinthians 16:2 "Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, t
Romans 14:5 "And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight."(Question? Does your church only meet on Sunday to fellowship and hear preaching and teaching? Is Sunday the only day of the week you might hear preaching from the minister? This verse just tells of believers gathering on Sunday to fellowship and listen to Paul preach because he had to leave the next day. It doesn't interpret as abolishing their regular worshiping on the Sabbath.)
Collisians 2:14 & 16 "Blotting out the handwriting of ORDINANCES (my caps) that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to His cross; Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or the new moon or of the sabbath days." (This judgment is speaking of situations on the sabbath as when David fed his men shewbread that was only to be eaten by the Jewish Priests on the Sabbath. 1 Samuel 21:1-6, Christ feeding His disciples from the cornfield on a Sabbath. Matthew 1:21 and pulling an ox out of a ditch on the Sabbath. Luke 14:5; if there are things that needed to be done out of necessity on the Sabbath, you should not let men judge you for doing that.)
I don't know how any of the verses I noted can be interpreted as showing that the early church willingly changed it's weekly worship and fellowship from the sabbath to the first day of the week. As I presented, there is historical proof that they didn't. As the "ravening wolves in sheep clothing" ( Matthew 7:15) began to creep into the church, a change was eventually made to abolish the sabbath and worship and refrain form labor on Sunday. Constantine and the Catholic Church mainly changed it and the world followed.
Jesus didn't have a mission to complete to "become" the unblemished Lamb of God.
Jesus took on the sins of the whole world. (THAT MEANS MADE AVAILABLE)
When we are born again "BORN OF GOD'S SPIRIT" We are saved!
We can no longer be charged with sin. 1 John 3:9.
The Holyspirit quicken these mortal bodies so we no longer "SERVE" sin. Romans 8:9-14.
There is no way for a child of Adam to be saved apart from being born from above. He was born with an inherited sin nature.
Unlike Jesus, we have to be born "Again" JESUS NEVER HAD TO DO THAT!
He was conceived of the Holyspirit. Matthew 1:20.
The penalty of sin was Judged/condemned/sentenced in the flesh. (In other words it was sin that was on trial, Not Jesus!
I believe that's what that phrase means. (Condemned sin in the flesh)
The meaning is separate from Jesus taking our judgment on the cross.
There is one event but two trials taken place here.
1) Our sins being Judged.
2) The penalty of sin, which is Death.
And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
John 10:34- seems to be a popular verse here. People want to believe they are a god, is that what's happening here? That would be a gross misinterpretation. You know this is a quote with a question mark at the end, right? Let's be honest about it. Here's the commentary for that:
Christ's argument is: If your law calls judges gods, why should I be held guilty of blasphemy for saying that I am the Son of God?
As per the other argument trying to discredit the word "one" sounds like your argument is that one doesn't really mean one, because Jesus used it to describe believers being one. I don't see how being one in unity as Christ's body somehow means that all the Bible verses about Jesus being God and divine suddenly don't apply? The verse about the Father and Son being one is only one of MANY verses competing the picture. The Bible already says Jesus the Word is God so how can you disregard that?
God: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1 KJV
You: Word was "NOT" God?
"Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also." John 8:19 KJV
Have you thought about how your belief reconciles with verses like this above?
Isaiah 7:14 -
Yes, Jesus is called Immanuel which means "God with us". People called Jesus "God". He's King of King and Lord of Lords. Alpha and Omega, first and last. Do you believe Jesus is Lord? I believe that is a requirement for even being a Christian. A Christ follower should know who Christ is.
1 John 5:7-8
John 10:30
John 8:19
Genesis 1:26
Genesis 11:6-7 (plural "us" which includes Jesus, as per John 1:1)
Perfect people in the bible, do they exist or is Jesus the only perfect one? We hear so much about how only Jesus is perfect from almost every Christian and yet, they can not find any scripture or any verse to back up their false claim. The apostle Paul said this:
Titus 1:16] They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
Christanity rebells when they have to be perfect thry immediately pass it on to Jesus when Jesus preached in Matthew 5:48 we (human beings) have to be perfect even as our Father which is in heaven is perfect. Why does Christanity argue agianst Jesus? Because they were never told the truth. Let's look in the bible to find more perfect people before, during and after, Jesus. Adam and Eve were in Genesis 1&2 before thry heard another gospel in Genesis 3 from Rev Serpant/Rev Devil.
Before: Genesis 6:9] These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
Genesis 17:1] And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
Deuteronomy 18:13] Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God.
Job 1:1] There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
2nd Chronicals 16:9] For the eyes of the LORD run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to shew himself strong in the behalf of them whose heart is perfect toward him. Herein thou hast done foolishly: therefore from henceforth thou shalt have wars.
Psalm 37:37] Mark the perfect man, and behold the upright: for the end of that man is peace.
During Jesus:
Matthew 1:[19] Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.
You will find the genealogy of Mary in Luke 3:23-38. However, when considering this genealogy, you will see that in verse 23, that 'Jesus was the son of Joseph (as he was so considered by the people - but not biologically connected to him) & Joseph was the son of Heli'. Whereas in Matthew 1:16, we see that Joseph is given as the son of Jacob. Therefore, it is understood that Joseph was the 'son-in-law' of Heli, Mary's father (however, some believe that Heli & Jacob were the same person). If then we accept that Luke's genealogical account of Jesus is through Mary, then when we get closer to King David, we note that this lineage is taken from David through his son Nathan ( Luke 3:31), whereas in Matthew 1:6, it is through David's other son, Solomon, through to Joseph. So both Joseph & Mary are connected to King David.
Matt.1:1 "The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham." Matthew 1:1
The Spirit introduces Jesus as the son of David as well as the son of Abraham. Deity of Jesus Christ is on the basis of faith so whosoever believed in the Son is adopted into the fellowship of God with Man. While according to the flesh Jesus came out of the loins of David. Representational aspect of persons is thus worked into the narrative. Envy and hatred of the patriarchs against their sibling makes Joseph as a stand-in for Jesus. In dilating upon the sufferings the Spirit makes such representations irrefutable on the basis of selfsame suffering children of light shall face in their time and place. Joseph's brethren sold him so did Judas Iscariot, his master. it is the generation of Jesus where whosoever believes in him and receives his as Savior fulfills the condition of his Father. He is part of his generation.
"That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life./ For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life./For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."( John 3:15-17)
Life and everlasting life are as distinct as his generation from which he was cut off the land of the living. "He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living."(Is.53:8)
Oseas, might I suggest another possibility concerning "time management", not to be "argumentative" in any way either. Matthew 1:17.. "So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations, and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations, and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations. Just a thought.
What does the Word of GOD say? By the way, the Word is GOD, understand? John 1:1
Matthew 1:1 to 17
1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
2 Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren;
3 And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram;
4 And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon;
5 And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse;
6 And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias;
7 And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa;
8 And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias;
9 And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias;
10 And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias;
11 And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:
12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel;
13 And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor;
14 And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud;
15 And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob;
16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.
Thank you Giannis for your comprehensive comment on this. It was interesting to learn that the KJB translators used the Septuagint in reference to Matthew 1:23 (from Isaiah 7:14) instead of the Masoretic text.
In Greek, the name is literally Judas. He wrote the book of Jude.
Judas is mentioned 44 times in the New Testament, representing the name of a person, as well as the name of the territory of Judah in Israel. Both are the same words.
There are 8 people named Judas in the New Testament, but only 3 are prominent and worth consideration. Two of these three are named in Luke 6:16.
They are Judas Iscariot (the one who betrayed the Lord). And Judas Thaddeus is presented as an apostle. Neither is the author of this letter.
This Jude is not an apostle. In fact, he says that he is the brother of James, and he is the servant of Jesus Christ. The author of this letter is Judas, the brother of James, and half-brother to the Lord Jesus.
Matthew 1:25 tells us that Mary and Joseph did not have the normal physical relationship between husband and wife until after Jesus was born. Matthew tells us that she was a virgin up to the birth of Christ. After the birth of Christ, they had a normal physical relationship. After Jesus was born, it is recorded in Matthew 13:55-56 that Mary and Joseph had other children who are listed as the brothers and sisters of Jesus.
During the Lord's public ministry, John 7:5 states that his brothers did not believe in Him. Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 15:7 that after Jesus rose from the dead, He appeared to James and to the others. That would be the other of His brothers. It was at this time His brothers believed in Him.
In Acts 1:14, we find Mary and the brothers of Jesus assembled in the Upper Room waiting for the coming of the Holy Spirit.
I Corinthians 9:5, Paul relates that the Lord's brothers served as missionaries in service to Christ as they traveled. James was the leader of the church in Jerusalem according to Acts Chapter 15.
The letter of Jude is the second letter in the New Testament written by a half-brother of Jesus. And of course, the other being James himself.
P1: Re-read some scriptures last evening and would like to write them here.
All of John Chapter 13 ; Chapter 14
John 1:4 "In him was life; and the life was the light of men."
Colossians 1:15 "Who is the image of the invisible God, the first born of every creature."
Romans 8:32 "He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?"
Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."
John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."
Hebrews 1:3 "Who being the brightness of his glory and express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"
Romans 8:29 "For whom he did foreknowledge, he did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the first born among many brethren."
1 Corinthians 1:29 "That no flesh glory in his presence"
John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we behold his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."
Luke 1:31 "And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS."
Matthew 1:19 "Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privileges."
Isaiah 53:1 "Who hat believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?"
Philippians 2:5 - 6 "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God."
Hebrews 6:20 "Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest after the order of Melchisedec."
The prophet is Isaiah, Matthew 1:22-23 shows the fulfillment of one of the many prophecies, this one we see given in Isaiah 14:7. Immanuel or in Greek Emmanuel is a Hebrew personal name meaning God is with us or God is with the people. Immanuel/Emmanuel is representative of the fact that God would demonstrate his love for us by the giving of His only begotten Son, Jesus the Messiah for the deliverance and salvation of his people, John 3:16.
Hebrew names have meaning like Jesus or Joshua that comes from the same Hebrew name Yehoshua meaning God is deliverance. It is derived from yeho meaning God and shua meaning to deliver or save.
Emmanuel is Hebrew for "God with us" as Jesus was indeed God dwelling in human flesh to live among us during His earthly life in a flesh and blood human body with a human nature, yet without sin. Jesus, the Son of God, who is the Word that is God in John 1:1 has always been God, the divine Son of the divine Father, but when He came to live a perfect earthly life, He also took on humanity in order to fulfill all of the law and obey the Father perfectly as a human man. He did this to fulfill all righteousness in order to be the perfect sacrifice for the sins of all humanity. So, Jesus was truly "God with us", so the name Emmanuel was speaking of who He is for all eternity, and not to be mistaken for only a mortal man when He lived His earthly life among us.
Jesus also told the disciples that He will always be with them after His resurrection. So, as the glorified Christ, He is with us as His Spirit dwells in us. If we have the Spirit in us, The Father and the Son also abide in us, as Jesus spoke at His Last Supper Discourse.
How wonderful is the name Emmanuel! God is with us. He is in us. He will never leave us nor forsake us. He is not far off from us, but closer than our own breath. He is forever our Lord and Savior.
We are His friends, as He said we are. We are united with Him by faith. We are hid in Him, being protected from the enemy. We are alive in Him because He arose from the dead. We are adopted as children of God through Jesus. We can never be separated from His love. We have an inheritance kept for us by Him in heaven. We will be brought to Him at the resurrection and will be with Him forever in His place of glory.
This would be the prophet Isaiah. Matthew tells us in Matthew 1:22 that this is a fulfillment. Matthew is presenting to us the fact that the birth of Christ fulfilled prophecy, which is Isaiah 7:14.
Jesus was conceived of the Holy Ghost, Matthew 1:20 of the seed of a woman/Mary, Genesis 3:15, and born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God, John 1:13. Jesus grew up the same way that we do, Luke 2:40.
He was subject to the pulls of the flesh. He was tempted and influenced by Satan, Luke 4:1-2. He had a will and human desires, Luke 22:41-42. Although Jesus was filled without measure with the power of the Holy Ghost, and gave all things into his hand, John 3:34-35 Jesus humbled Himself and was obedient unto death, Philippians 2:5-11.
To be the payment for sins of man and to be the Savior of mankind and destroy the works of the devil, Jesus had to be a human, Hebrews 2:14-18, the promise God made was to Abraham and his seed, that was Jesus the Messiah/Christ, Galatians 3:16.
Jesus the last Adam came into this world sinless as the first Adam and had to be laden with what we are as humans. The man Jesus, Romans 5:15, had to endure and overcome sin and rise above the influences of Satan to become the payment for the sins and this atonement made way for our deliverance from Satan's bondage, Romans 3:21-26.
He also was prepared to be a merciful and faithful High Priest, Hebrews 4:14-16. God sent His own Son to condemn sin in the flesh that the law could not do that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled, Romans 8:3-4.
Jesus the Son of God a human being had to deal with life as we do. He lived in the same time, space, and constraints as we do. He was born under the law, He became tired, He became hungry, He was subject to persecution, subject to pain, subject to the Roman rulers, He had to deal with all the things the same way we do, and all was the for the will of the Father, not His, Matthew 26:42.
Only in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth do we have hope, and are saved, Acts 4:12.
We are to hold fast in our faith to the end.
God bless,
RLW
Hey brother just one last thing to consider.
Daniel 9:24-27, in this prophecy, there are seventy weeks or 490 years determined unto Daniel's people and the holy city to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Have these 6 things been fulfilled in Jesus the Messiah, and the judgment of it carried out in 70 AD? If so, all of this prophecy has been fulfilled in the past.
1 To finish the transgression. To break or violate, as a law, civil or moral; the act of transgressing. Psalms 32:1 Isaiah 53:5-11 Romans 4:14-15 Galatians 3:18-19 Hebrews 9:14-15.
2 To make an end to sins. Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Matthew 1:21 Hebrews 10:8-11 John 1:29 1 Corinthians 15:3 1 John 3:5 Psalm 32:1 Romans 3:21-26 Romans 8:3.
3 To make reconciliation for iniquity. Reconciliation is an element of salvation that refers to the results of the atonement. Colossians 1:20-22 Isaiah 53:6 Isaiah 53:11 Romans 5:11 Ephesians 2:16 Titus 2:14 2 Corinthians 5:18-19.
4 To bring in everlasting righteousness. In conformity to the demands of the covenant and according to God's will. Isaiah 61:10-11 Romans 3:21-26 Romans 5:17-21 2 Corinthians 5:21 1 Peter 2:24.
5 To seal up the vision and prophecy. The greatest prediction, which runs like a golden thread through the whole contents of the Old Testament, is that regarding the coming and work of the Messiah, Jesus. Daniel 9:23 Matthew 11:11-15 Mark 1:14-15 John 5:36-40 John 6:27 Acts 3:18.
6 To anoint the most holy. The high priest went into the holy of holies once a year with the blood of a sacrificed bull. Jesus our high priest with His own blood anointed the most holy not made with hands once and for all, forever. Hebrews 9:6-14.
Jesus said it in John 19:28-30.
God bless,
RLW
Part 2.
The past weeks I have taken much time in Scripture to once again find out what it teaches on the deity of Jesus. It is very important to me to believe what the Scriptures do say as the basis for my belief in Jesus. Jesus asks us to believe in Him, and to me, this means believing the truth about Him from Scripture as well as trusting in Him for salvation. So, in the following posts I will accept what the Scriptures say about Jesus' nature. What does the Scriptures say concerning Jesus in this view?
First, I will bring forward some OT prophecies concerning Jesus:
Psalm 45:6
"Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre."
The writer of Hebrews applies this prophecy to Jesus in 1:8
"But unto the Son, he (God) saith: "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre ofthy kingdom."
Verses 9-13 goes on to speak of the Son as creating the foundations of the earth and of the heavens; that the Son will fold these up again, and bring about the changed to them; but the Son is changeless and eternal.
Isaiah 7:14 gives a prophecy concerning Jesus.
"Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign: Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and they shall call him Immanuel."
Matthew 1:22-23 cites this prophecy as being fulfilled in Jesus, who is Emmanuel (another spelling of Immanuel) which means "God with us."
isaiah 9:6 prophesies that:
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, the Mighty God, The Everlasting Gather, the Prince of Peace"
Here, Isaiah the prophecy of vs. 9:14 is extended and still refers to Immanuel who Jesus is. In this verse Jesus is called Mighty God (an OT name for God) along with the Everlasting Father: (which shows Immanuel's oneness with the Father as Jesus said that "I and the Father are one" in John 10:30. cont. to pt. 3
Yes, Jesus is of the tribe of Judah and the line of David who was of the tribe of Judah, you can read the genealogy in Matthew 1:1-17 and Luke 3:21-38. Jesus the Son of God was made of a woman, made under the law, Galatians 4:4. Not sure about your question was Jesus a Jew? Today when we hear the word Jew it is taken to mean anyone who is of the religion of Judaism regardless of their genealogy.
The same when we hear the word Gentile or Gentiles, we think of anyone who is not a Jew but there are more to these words. After Soloman died the tribes of Israel divided into the northern and southern kingdoms. The southern kingdom was the tribes of Judah and Benjamin and the Levites tended to the temple; it is called the kingdom of Judah. When they were taken captive by Babylon, the slang term began to be used. Jew is an abbreviated slang term for Judahite, a resident of the southern kingdom of Judah.
Hope this helps.
God bless,
RLW
The name of our Savior, Jesus that means "YHWH saves" Matthew 1:21-23 and Luke 1:31-32 the angel Gabriel told Mary to name the Son of God so that it may be fulfilled that was spoken of the LORD by the prophet Isaiah 7:14. they shall call His name Immanuel meaning God with us, nothing has changed. Jesus comes from the Hebrew word Yehoshua same as Jehoshua or Joshua, the Greek form is Iesous English is before the letter J it was Iesus now Jesus, it is just transliteration or translation from one language to another.
There were many back then with that name but only this Jesus is referred to as Jesus Christ or Christ Jesus, in Hebrew Yehoshua Moshiach, who is the Son of God, Jesus's identity, and His mission that His Father sent Him to do. The name Immanuel means with us is God, the presence of God in His Son that we see in the New Testament not His personal name. Like Jesus told Philip in John 14:7-11.
This is my understanding maybe others will have other comments, pray, and study, truth comes only from the Spirit of truth.
God bless,
RLW
While Lazarus figures in a Parable we have the healing of a blind beggar and he is named. As his name Bartimeaus implies he is the son of Timaeus. He is addressing "Thou son of David, have mercy on me." The son of David informs it is a request from a man in need of the Son of man.. Matthew 1:1 gives us the generation of Jesus Christ in which he is the son of Abraham and the son of David. Two names representing his Alpha Omega aspect.
Jesus first would want Bartimeaus speak out what specifically he needed."(Jesus)said unto him, What wilt thou that I should do unto thee? The blind man said unto him, Lord, that I might receive my sight./And Jesus said unto him, Go thy way; thy faith hath made thee whole. And immediately he received his sight." The Spirit here gives the fulfilment of the word of God, "He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions."(Ps.107:20) Compare this with his healing of the man with palsy by the pool of Bethesda. "And immediately the man was made whole."( John 5;9) There also the Spirit mentions 'immediately' referring to the ministry of Jesus, theword become flesh. In this context what shall we make of the Psalm quote? It is the word of God of which the Holy Spirit instructs us, "For ever, OLord, thy word is settled in heaven."(Ps.119:89)
"Immediately' as used profusely in the Gospel is as loaded as the term "now" referring to Jesus as the word become flesh.
The gospel thus reached Bartemaeus. So the Spirit adds,"and followed Jesus in the way."
Part 3 Trinity discussion,
Do you believe the Son is a created being?
What is the meaning of created? Does it mean something that is made out of nothing? I would have to say no, Jesus is the Son of God who was conceived in the womb of Mary, Matthew 1:20 Luke 1:35, I do not think I would say He was created.
If so, when did He come into existence?
In God's plan before anything and physically when He was conceived in Mary's womb.
Do you believe that the Son is only human in nature?
Jesus is the Son of God fully human but without sin same as the first Adam, Scripture is clear when Jesus was baptized, He was anointed with the Holy Ghost/Spirit without measure, John 3:34. All the works of Jesus were done by the Spirit of God, Matthew 4:16 Matthew 12:28 Acts 10:38.
Do you believe that Jesus became "the Christ" during His lifetime (Adoptionism)?
I had never heard of Adoptionism until now, I had to look it up, it's false. Christ and Messiah are the same; Jesus was anointed by the Spirit of God after He was baptized by John, He then was made the Messiah/Christ fulfilling the prophecy in Daniel 9:25. Jesus is the Son of God conceived in the womb of Mary by the Holy Ghost/Spirit.
Do you believe Jesus ever aquired a divine nature in His earthly life?
If you mean a divine nature is to have all the attributes that make God who He is I would have to say no. If so, Jesus could not sin or be tempted, Matthew 4:1 Hebrews 4:15. If so, Jesus living a perfect life without sin is meaningless. Jesus could not have died; Jesus was given the power of the Holy Spirit when He was anointed the Messiah. After He rose from the dead God gave Jesus all power in heaven and on earth, Matthew 28:18. God raised and placed Jesus on His right side, Ephesians 1:21-23. Jesus did not return to where He was before, God the Father placed everything under Jesus God's only begotten Son's feet and Jesus will reign until the last enemy is destroyed, 1 Corinthians 15:24-28.
See part 4.
Part 2 Trinity discussion
Did Jesus exist before creation? Did the Holy Spirit exist before creation?
Jesus existed in God's plan, Jesus is the beginning of creation Rev. 3:14 and by Him were all things created Col. 1:16 my understanding is Jesus, was the first in God's plan of creation and everything was created by God, in and through the plan and purpose of Jesus. My understanding Jesus did not physically exist until the fullness of time. Ephesians 1:10 He was born of Mary the Son of God. the seed of woman. Genesis 3:15 Matthew 1:20
My understanding is the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God, not a person, Genesis 1:2. We see all the greetings are from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. Romans 1:7 1 Corinthians 1:3 2 Corinthians 1:2 Galatians 1:3 Ephesians 1:2 Ephesians 6:23 Philippians 1:2 Colossians 1:2 and 6 more. The Holy Spirit not being included is a good clue the Holy Spirit was not considered a person by Paul and others at that time.
If so, who were they in relation to the Father?
I believe the above answers this.
How did the Father, the Son, and the Spirit all create all that is, seen or unseen?
My understanding is God the Father created all, Genesis 1:1 Genesis 1:31 Proverbs 16:4 Isaiah 45:18 Nehemiah 9:6.
Does Scripture teach that God is only one person who manifests in three forms, but all these manifestations are only one person?
Scripture does not support Modalism I have never considered this and do not know anything about it.
See part 3.
It seems you have the Bible only in your hands,but have not the Word of GOD in heart.This explain why you believe in esoteric,and kabbalistic,and spiritists,AND FICTITIOUS names of God, which Satan stealthy introduced in the OT, in Torah,Jewish Scriptures-Tanack,as if were names of the true GOD,but are fictitious NAMES from your heart are JEHOVAH,YAHWEH,YHWH,ADONAI,EL SHADAI,HaSHEM.Terrible.
The words that proceede from your heart is from a human perspective,a stumblingblock-Genesis3:1-not from GOD's perspective- Matthew 16:23.Your testimony of GOD's Word signifies nothing and is good for nothing.In fact,what I reply here is because of the readers, not you.What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD,the Word is GOD Himself- John 1:1 combined with 1John 5:7,and around 2000 years ago He,even GOD Himself, was made flesh and introduced Himself among men by the NAME of JESUS- Matthew 1:21-understand?Isaiah had prophesied, saying:"The Lord Himself shall give you a sign;Behold,a VIRGIN shall conceive,and bear a SON,and shall call His name Immanuel-Is.7:14-(it means: GOD with us).
These Truth torment your esoteric,and kabbalistic, and spiritist spirit,GOD CURSED the Devil,the tree of good and evil,the figtree. JESUS,In His Ministry,said to the Devil:Man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY Word that proceedeth out of the MOUTH of GOD- Matthew 4:4. The Word is GOD, the Word is GOD Himself, and the Word of the MOUTH of GOD is LITERALLY written in 66 books, KING JAMES VERSION is an edition of the book of the Lord, it is called Bible.
Oh no, my Lord JESUS never accused anyone, as you said, also my Lord JESUS NEVER USED the NAMES of Satan you have listed here, these are more false testimonies of you of JESUS's Person, it's the spirit of you is acusing JESUS,he is the Accuser, he has blinded your eyes,your own devilish words leave clear you know not my Lord JESUS.
If the supposed"glorious name Yahweh,as you say"is in your heart, it means the Devil is in your heart.
It is true Ronald, that most of those Scriptures you've cited certainly show that there is only One God & none else. I can wholeheartedly agree with that belief, that we together share in.
You also mentioned the Holy Spirit. Without introducing the Holy Spirit into this thread but for the sake of comparison & meditation, I'm sure you wouldn't deny that God sent out His Spirit to accomplish His Work in the World & in hearts ( John 16:7-11, & others). How can God send out His Spirit, & yet be Who He is, without being grossly deficient in His Being? Is God now Spirit-less since the Holy Spirit has been sent into the World & how can the Spirit also be dissected into millions of 'parts' (Spirits), filling each true believer with Himself, i.e. with God's Presence in them? Likewise, if God can do so with His Spirit & still be Spirit Himself, & this is a mystery to us, can He not also do so with His Word? Does this leave God devoid of knowledge, speech or thought, because He sent out His Word first by the prophets, then in & through His Son? ( Hebrews 1:1-3). The difference here now is, this Word was not just a spoken Word, but the "Word was made flesh". We couldn't say this, nor have read that any prophet of the OT, having received the Word, was made flesh.
With the many Scriptures that have already been given, I find it very reasonable to believe that this Word was treated just as God did with His Spirit. God sent out His Word in the olden days via His prophets, but the time had come when His Word would be sent out in His Son. If all we had was the account in Matthew 1:20-25 that Mary gave birth to a special Son, from the Holy Seed of God, then yes, this appearance of this One called Emmanuel & Jesus, was indeed a fresh creation by God to bring out His Word, not just in speech form, but in demonstration of the Holiness of God, His Power, His Love, & ultimately, His Sacrifice. Onto Page 2.
Part one,
As I said I am not the best in explaining my understanding and I will try, I feel you deserve it, for you have been gracious to even discuss this with me.
1 Corinthians 15:47 This is after Jesus was raised from the dead and Paul is saying our Lord. First the earthy the first Adam then the spiritual the last Adam Jesus who did come from heaven when Jesus, God's Son was conceived in Mary's womb.
We see in Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Jesus defeated death because He was without sin the firstborn from the dead the only man who lived a perfect life. After He was baptized and anointed God gave Him authority John 5:26-27.
Matthew 1:20 Acts 17:31 Rev. 12:5 My understanding is the preexistence of Jesus was in God's plan before anything was created. A man caused sin to enter mankind and it had to be a man to live a perfect life to fulfill and make void the law, God could not do that.
Hebrews 1:5 Jesus is not a God there is only one true God, Jesus is the only begotten Son of God. a man who is God's Son conceived in Mary, who God raised in a glorified body and placed Him on His right side on His throne above all that is in heaven and earth and under the earth.
See part two.
Page 1.
Thanks again Ronald, and I note that you would like a recess on this discussion. But if I might briefly address the Scriptures you shared & why I believe that they don't answer the question, 'was Jesus' first appearance only from the womb of Mary, or did He exist in another Form within the Person of God?'
To your references:
1 Corinthians 15:47: "the second man is the Lord from Heaven" (not a Man Who became Lord, Who went into Heaven & then returned to Earth as Lord from Heaven - but the Lord Who was in Heaven & came to Earth, unlike the first man, Adam, Who was created from the Earth & back to the Earth he went).
1 Timothy 2:5: yes, Jesus is the Mediator now between God & mankind after His ascension.
Matthew 1:20, Acts 17:31, Revelation 12:5: yes again, all point to Jesus as a Man/Babe Who came from God - but no direct reference to any previous existence.
Hebrews 1:5: indeed, Jesus became the Son of God by virtue of this miraculous Birth, but then God would have created another god, because 'all the angels of God are to worship Him'; & none can receive worship but God alone. You asked, "How could God say I will be to him a Father and he shall be to me a Son if Jesus eternally existed with the Father?" Because God took His Word & gave Flesh to that Word, and this Flesh was brought into the World by the Work of God, which made this One called Jesus, God's Son. Jesus only became the Son of God at the Incarnation.
Hebrews 2:7: Jesus was made "a little lower than the angels" by virtue of His Humanity. It seems there is an order of created beings before God: the angels being above humanity, of which Jesus was made, thus subjecting Him to being our equal.
Onto Page 2.
I thank you for discussing this and I consider you as a brother in Christ. I do not feel I have represented Scripture in any kind of mystical or spiritual way. I am not trying to convince you, but to explain my understanding. I believe Jesus was a man same as the first Adam without sin, 1 Cor. 15:47 1 Timothy 2:5 Jesus is the only begotten Son of God miraculously conceived, born of the virgin Mary, Matthew 1:20 Acts 17:31 Rev. 12:5
Take Hebrews 1: 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father? How could God say I will be to him a Father and he shall be to me a Son if Jesus eternally existed with the Father.
Hebrews 2:7 from Psalms 8:5-6 God the Father made and set Jesus His only begotten Son over all His works of His hands this tells me the Father is the creator. 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 Philippians 2:9. To me that is simply saying God the Father is superior and they are not coequal, God the Father highly exalted Jesus His Son.
Christ means He is the Anointed One nothing is above God so God cannot be anointed or anoint Himself, God is the one who anoints, as Jesus was anointed with the full measure of the Holy Spirit/Ghost when He was baptized by John the Baptist. We also see in 1 Corinthians 11:3 This to me shows they are not equal, and God the Father is the head over all.
1 Peter 1:19-21 If Jesus preexisted how could he be foreordained? Eph. 1:10
Chris, I may could say more, maybe we can pick this back up again, but I hope you have some idea of my understanding, this is not to end this but just to pause I hope that is ok.
Jesus to me is Devine He is the Devine only begotten Son of God. He has been placed over all that is in heaven and earth and every knee will bow to Him. You do not think He had a beginning; I believe His beginning was in God's plan before any creation and was brought forth in the fulness of time.
God bless,
RLW
a. It is possible that Lot had four daughters: two were still living at home with their parents ( Genesis 19:12, when the angels asked Lot if he had any other 'family' besides those they could see there with him; and Genesis 19:15, the angels urged Lot to quickly bring out his wife & his two daughters WHICH ARE HERE, i.e. present in the house with them). So, maybe from these verses we can assume that Lot had four daughters: two virgins living with him & two living with their husbands, & these could have perished with their husbands because of their refusal to leave Sodom.
b. The other possibility is that Lot only had two daughters, but they were not married to their (future) husbands, but were betrothed to them. As you probably know, that in those days & in that culture, when two people were bethrothed (engaged) to each other, they were considered as a married couple, only because of the binding commitment that such an engagement required, & not by actually living & sleeping together. We can remember the account of Joseph & Mary ( Matthew 1:18,19) where Joseph's espousal to Mary was considered as a marriage, though they didn't live together, yet, Joseph was still intending to "put away" (divorce) Mary for her supposed infidelity. But the Angel of the Lord intervened quick smart to stop him acting foolishly.
You can examine these options before you & decide for yourself. My leaning is to the latter, of Job having only two daughters, betrothed to men, but choosing to leave them in preference to what the Angel had warned them concerning God's Wrath over the city.
1 Corinthians 16:2 "Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, t
Romans 14:5 "And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight."(Question? Does your church only meet on Sunday to fellowship and hear preaching and teaching? Is Sunday the only day of the week you might hear preaching from the minister? This verse just tells of believers gathering on Sunday to fellowship and listen to Paul preach because he had to leave the next day. It doesn't interpret as abolishing their regular worshiping on the Sabbath.)
Collisians 2:14 & 16 "Blotting out the handwriting of ORDINANCES (my caps) that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to His cross; Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or the new moon or of the sabbath days." (This judgment is speaking of situations on the sabbath as when David fed his men shewbread that was only to be eaten by the Jewish Priests on the Sabbath. 1 Samuel 21:1-6, Christ feeding His disciples from the cornfield on a Sabbath. Matthew 1:21 and pulling an ox out of a ditch on the Sabbath. Luke 14:5; if there are things that needed to be done out of necessity on the Sabbath, you should not let men judge you for doing that.)
I don't know how any of the verses I noted can be interpreted as showing that the early church willingly changed it's weekly worship and fellowship from the sabbath to the first day of the week. As I presented, there is historical proof that they didn't. As the "ravening wolves in sheep clothing" ( Matthew 7:15) began to creep into the church, a change was eventually made to abolish the sabbath and worship and refrain form labor on Sunday. Constantine and the Catholic Church mainly changed it and the world followed.
God Bless :)
Jesus took on the sins of the whole world. (THAT MEANS MADE AVAILABLE)
When we are born again "BORN OF GOD'S SPIRIT" We are saved!
We can no longer be charged with sin. 1 John 3:9.
The Holyspirit quicken these mortal bodies so we no longer "SERVE" sin. Romans 8:9-14.
There is no way for a child of Adam to be saved apart from being born from above. He was born with an inherited sin nature.
Unlike Jesus, we have to be born "Again" JESUS NEVER HAD TO DO THAT!
He was conceived of the Holyspirit. Matthew 1:20.
The penalty of sin was Judged/condemned/sentenced in the flesh. (In other words it was sin that was on trial, Not Jesus!
I believe that's what that phrase means. (Condemned sin in the flesh)
The meaning is separate from Jesus taking our judgment on the cross.
There is one event but two trials taken place here.
1) Our sins being Judged.
2) The penalty of sin, which is Death.
And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 15:49-57.
God bless.
Christ's argument is: If your law calls judges gods, why should I be held guilty of blasphemy for saying that I am the Son of God?
As per the other argument trying to discredit the word "one" sounds like your argument is that one doesn't really mean one, because Jesus used it to describe believers being one. I don't see how being one in unity as Christ's body somehow means that all the Bible verses about Jesus being God and divine suddenly don't apply? The verse about the Father and Son being one is only one of MANY verses competing the picture. The Bible already says Jesus the Word is God so how can you disregard that?
God: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1 KJV
You: Word was "NOT" God?
"Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also." John 8:19 KJV
Have you thought about how your belief reconciles with verses like this above?
Isaiah 7:14 -
Yes, Jesus is called Immanuel which means "God with us". People called Jesus "God". He's King of King and Lord of Lords. Alpha and Omega, first and last. Do you believe Jesus is Lord? I believe that is a requirement for even being a Christian. A Christ follower should know who Christ is.
1 John 5:7-8
John 10:30
John 8:19
Genesis 1:26
Genesis 11:6-7 (plural "us" which includes Jesus, as per John 1:1)
Philippians 2:5-8
2 Corinthians 5:19
John 1:3
Matthew 28:19
1 Peter 1:2
2 Corinthians 13:14
Deuteronomy 6:4
John 14:10
John 20:28
1 John 2:22-24
Matthew 1:23-25
Colossians 2:9
Acts 17:29
Romans 1:20
Isaiah 7:14
Hebrews 1:8
Isaiah 44:6
Isaiah 43:11
Titus 1:16] They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
Christanity rebells when they have to be perfect thry immediately pass it on to Jesus when Jesus preached in Matthew 5:48 we (human beings) have to be perfect even as our Father which is in heaven is perfect. Why does Christanity argue agianst Jesus? Because they were never told the truth. Let's look in the bible to find more perfect people before, during and after, Jesus. Adam and Eve were in Genesis 1&2 before thry heard another gospel in Genesis 3 from Rev Serpant/Rev Devil.
Before: Genesis 6:9] These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
Genesis 17:1] And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
Deuteronomy 18:13] Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God.
Job 1:1] There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
2nd Chronicals 16:9] For the eyes of the LORD run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to shew himself strong in the behalf of them whose heart is perfect toward him. Herein thou hast done foolishly: therefore from henceforth thou shalt have wars.
Psalm 37:37] Mark the perfect man, and behold the upright: for the end of that man is peace.
During Jesus:
Matthew 1:[19] Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.
See part 2
The Spirit introduces Jesus as the son of David as well as the son of Abraham. Deity of Jesus Christ is on the basis of faith so whosoever believed in the Son is adopted into the fellowship of God with Man. While according to the flesh Jesus came out of the loins of David. Representational aspect of persons is thus worked into the narrative. Envy and hatred of the patriarchs against their sibling makes Joseph as a stand-in for Jesus. In dilating upon the sufferings the Spirit makes such representations irrefutable on the basis of selfsame suffering children of light shall face in their time and place. Joseph's brethren sold him so did Judas Iscariot, his master. it is the generation of Jesus where whosoever believes in him and receives his as Savior fulfills the condition of his Father. He is part of his generation.
"That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life./ For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life./For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."( John 3:15-17)
Life and everlasting life are as distinct as his generation from which he was cut off the land of the living. "He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living."(Is.53:8)
What does the Word of GOD say? By the way, the Word is GOD, understand? John 1:1
Matthew 1:1 to 17
1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
2 Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren;
3 And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram;
4 And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon;
5 And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse;
6 And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias;
7 And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa;
8 And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias;
9 And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias;
10 And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias;
11 And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:
12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel;
13 And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor;
14 And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud;
15 And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob;
16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.
I. ABOUT THE AUTHOR:
In Greek, the name is literally Judas. He wrote the book of Jude.
Judas is mentioned 44 times in the New Testament, representing the name of a person, as well as the name of the territory of Judah in Israel. Both are the same words.
There are 8 people named Judas in the New Testament, but only 3 are prominent and worth consideration. Two of these three are named in Luke 6:16.
They are Judas Iscariot (the one who betrayed the Lord). And Judas Thaddeus is presented as an apostle. Neither is the author of this letter.
This Jude is not an apostle. In fact, he says that he is the brother of James, and he is the servant of Jesus Christ. The author of this letter is Judas, the brother of James, and half-brother to the Lord Jesus.
Matthew 1:25 tells us that Mary and Joseph did not have the normal physical relationship between husband and wife until after Jesus was born. Matthew tells us that she was a virgin up to the birth of Christ. After the birth of Christ, they had a normal physical relationship. After Jesus was born, it is recorded in Matthew 13:55-56 that Mary and Joseph had other children who are listed as the brothers and sisters of Jesus.
During the Lord's public ministry, John 7:5 states that his brothers did not believe in Him. Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 15:7 that after Jesus rose from the dead, He appeared to James and to the others. That would be the other of His brothers. It was at this time His brothers believed in Him.
In Acts 1:14, we find Mary and the brothers of Jesus assembled in the Upper Room waiting for the coming of the Holy Spirit.
I Corinthians 9:5, Paul relates that the Lord's brothers served as missionaries in service to Christ as they traveled. James was the leader of the church in Jerusalem according to Acts Chapter 15.
The letter of Jude is the second letter in the New Testament written by a half-brother of Jesus. And of course, the other being James himself.
All of John Chapter 13 ; Chapter 14
John 1:4 "In him was life; and the life was the light of men."
Colossians 1:15 "Who is the image of the invisible God, the first born of every creature."
Romans 8:32 "He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?"
Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."
John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."
Hebrews 1:3 "Who being the brightness of his glory and express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"
Romans 8:29 "For whom he did foreknowledge, he did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the first born among many brethren."
1 Corinthians 1:29 "That no flesh glory in his presence"
John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we behold his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."
Luke 1:31 "And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS."
Matthew 1:19 "Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privileges."
Isaiah 53:1 "Who hat believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?"
Philippians 2:5 - 6 "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God."
Hebrews 6:20 "Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest after the order of Melchisedec."
P2 follows
The prophet is Isaiah, Matthew 1:22-23 shows the fulfillment of one of the many prophecies, this one we see given in Isaiah 14:7. Immanuel or in Greek Emmanuel is a Hebrew personal name meaning God is with us or God is with the people. Immanuel/Emmanuel is representative of the fact that God would demonstrate his love for us by the giving of His only begotten Son, Jesus the Messiah for the deliverance and salvation of his people, John 3:16.
Hebrew names have meaning like Jesus or Joshua that comes from the same Hebrew name Yehoshua meaning God is deliverance. It is derived from yeho meaning God and shua meaning to deliver or save.
God bless,
RLW
Glad to meet you.
Emmanuel is Hebrew for "God with us" as Jesus was indeed God dwelling in human flesh to live among us during His earthly life in a flesh and blood human body with a human nature, yet without sin. Jesus, the Son of God, who is the Word that is God in John 1:1 has always been God, the divine Son of the divine Father, but when He came to live a perfect earthly life, He also took on humanity in order to fulfill all of the law and obey the Father perfectly as a human man. He did this to fulfill all righteousness in order to be the perfect sacrifice for the sins of all humanity. So, Jesus was truly "God with us", so the name Emmanuel was speaking of who He is for all eternity, and not to be mistaken for only a mortal man when He lived His earthly life among us.
Jesus also told the disciples that He will always be with them after His resurrection. So, as the glorified Christ, He is with us as His Spirit dwells in us. If we have the Spirit in us, The Father and the Son also abide in us, as Jesus spoke at His Last Supper Discourse.
How wonderful is the name Emmanuel! God is with us. He is in us. He will never leave us nor forsake us. He is not far off from us, but closer than our own breath. He is forever our Lord and Savior.
We are His friends, as He said we are. We are united with Him by faith. We are hid in Him, being protected from the enemy. We are alive in Him because He arose from the dead. We are adopted as children of God through Jesus. We can never be separated from His love. We have an inheritance kept for us by Him in heaven. We will be brought to Him at the resurrection and will be with Him forever in His place of glory.
Hallelujah!
This would be the prophet Isaiah. Matthew tells us in Matthew 1:22 that this is a fulfillment. Matthew is presenting to us the fact that the birth of Christ fulfilled prophecy, which is Isaiah 7:14.
My question is about Matthew 22-23. Who is this prophet, and why is he told to use the name Emmanuel?
I look forward to any answers, thoughts or ideas,
DanYells