We are to be at peace with one another, forgive one another, have mercy on one another.
Just a few references.
1 Thessalonians 4:9
Ephesians 4:32
Galatians 5:26
Galatians 6:2
Matthew 7:12
1 John 4:7
However, we don't lie or deceive one another for the sake of peace. The truth hurts sometimes but it promotes spiritual growth providing that the Christ spirit is in the person.
BELEIVERS SHUNNING OTHER BELEIVERS.
To shun is to deliberately avoid something or someone. In the Bible, the word shun is applied to evil. Job 1:8, Job 28:28, Proverbs 3:7-8Proverbs 14:16. So, shunning evil is good.
There is scripture that promotes excommunication. Matthew 18:15-17; 2 Thessalonians 3:14. but do we do it for harm or Good? What's the intent?
In any case, it would seem that extreme forms of shunning, such as considering someone "dead," utterly ignoring him, or refusing to acknowledge his existence, go beyond what Scripture commands.
After all, Jesus said that, when someone is put out of the church, he should be treated as "a pagan or a tax collector" Matthew 18:17. In other words, treat an intractable offender as an unsaved person.
How are we to treat the unsaved? With love and grace.
The "pagans and tax collectors" need to be evangelized. We are to love even our enemies ( Matthew 5:44).
The goal of excommunication and any form of shunning is restoration ( Galatians 6:1).
The purpose of any type of discipline is to prompt repentance and, ultimately, to reunite our fallen brother or sister with the church body. Being officially ostracized from the church, the sinner might be brought to repentance.
When the man in the Corinthian church later realized that he had sinned against God, he repented and came back to the church for forgiveness and reinstatement. Fellowship with the Corinthian believers was restored ( 2 Corinthians 2:6-11).
Isn't it hateful to ignore or shun other believers?
There is a lot of evil in this world, fallen angels, demons, evil people, and the head honcho Satan the devil. As we see in 2 Corinthians 11:13-15 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
They make merchandise of those who fall into their deception, 2 Peter 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. They look up to heaven and see all the stars are 20-dollar bills, the love of money is so powerful, that many cannot resist.
Does God allow it? Since it is so prevalent, I am sure God has His reasons, but we do not see the result. Deuteronomy 18:20 and Matthew 18:6 and many more their punishment will be great. We are to go humbly and in prayer to the Bible with open ears and trust God through the Holy Spirit for the truth and share it in how we are led.
Their intentions only God knows, God will allow us to choose the road of this world, filled with riches but we know all the wealth of this world is filth compared to the true riches we have in Christ, that the narrow rocky road leads to. As Jesus said take heed that no man deceive you.
For where two or three are gathered together in My Name, there am I in the midst of them" ( Matthew 18:19-20 ). Please pray with me today.
Father, in Jesus' Name, I seek Your wisdom and trust You to direct me in seeking the job that is best for me. I will walk in mercy and truth and lean not unto my own understanding. Thank You for opening wide a door which no man can shut and for giving me favor.
I pray today not only for myself but for all of those in need of assistance in their lives. I have read your prayers and I am with you in spirit. Pray with me.
Lord you know their worries and pain. Please help them. Wipe away their tears and help them solve their problems in Jesus name. Amen.
Hi Filina, looking at this beautiful response of love, I would say you still have your brothers and sisters in Christ. I also pray for your healing physically, mentally, emotionally. Remember we are praying for and with you, Matthew 18:19-20 reminds us that a group praying for the same, God hears and does respond.
And yes, I agree with you Momsage, that there is no clear indication about this in the Bible. However, since there is evidence of angelic observance of matters on Earth (as I shared earlier: Matthew 18:10 & 1 Peter 1:10-12) as well as Revelation 6:9,10 (the martyrs plea to God against those thirsty for their blood on Earth), one can see why this belief of a general observance from Heaven's 'residents' can be easily accepted. So for me, as much as I don't subscribe to it, I can understand why some do. And if such a belief doesn't lead to any sin of idolatry, diminishing of God's Holiness & Authority, or elevation of the heavenly ones to a place of refuge for us, then it is a belief that they will have to come to terms with in the Light of the Scriptures.
You are very welcome! I agree. They were defrauding each other, and Paul admonished them for it. Church today is run so much different than it was in Paul's day. Today, it seems as though church fellowships do not want "stir the pot" and are more concerned about losing members than following instruction set forth in scripture.
The believers in Corinth were taking each other to court before a non-believing judge to judge matters that should have been handled between themselves. Paul corrected them for that.
Should we "turn the other cheek" in all situations? I think that's something we would have to settle in our own hearts, consulting with the Lord of course!
Personally, I would not sue another believer. I know it's easier said than done, but I don't believe that is something I would do. But I agree with you completely that there is a lack of church involvement in such matters.
I wonder also about the precepts of sin against a brother that is given to us in Matthew 18:15-20. How many church fellowships today follow that model?
As for the kissing on the cheek as Paul told them to do, that was their normal way of greeting each other at that time. In fact, they still greet each other that way in the Middle East. If you ever watch news clips of dignitaries greeting each other in the Middle East, they still kiss on each cheek. I don't think there would be anything wrong with us doing the same. We might get some funny looks (or slapped), but that's the way they greet each other in the Middle East and did so in Paul's day. It would be equivalent to our handshake or hug when we greet someone.
I agree Momsage, there is no clear instruction or evidence of departed souls in Heaven looking down upon us. I feel that this belief developed from certain passages, such as Matthew 18:10 (angelic activity & witness on behalf of children); 1 Peter 1:10-12 (angelic interest in the workings of the Gospel & people's response to it); and Hebrews 12:1 (the cloud of witnesses: are they actually witnessing/observing our lives on Earth, or is the message for us, 'to lay aside sin & run the race with patience, since we have those who have done so before us which should be our example, or witness to us?). So, if there is angelic observance, some might be inclined, even for comfort sake, also believe that departed souls also have similar opportunity, interest & power to do so. This is probably a belief best left aside for the Word is not specific on it & should not be taught as fact. And I've always thought, that if souls are in the presence of the Lord, would there even be any desire to cast the 'mind' or 'eyes' anywhere else, rather than behold the Glory & Beauty of God in continual worship of Him?
This is a great topic, being that we all have dealt with having to forgive someone and also have had to be forgiven ourselves.
Your question, "How do we let go of the pain" is a good question!
I believe a good example of what is expected of us is seen in
Matthew 18:21-35.
The problem is how do we accomplish this?
I believe you answered your own question. PRAYER!
I would add humility to that.
If we humble ourselves and be truthful we all trespass against the Lord and we beg for his forgiveness.
God don't just forgive us, he is longsuffering and he has mercy on us.
We don't measure up to that standard so we also trespass in return.
To demonstrate this kind of display is a virtue of Love.
This is a area we grow in.
When we put forward the effort to perform it, by the enrichment of the Spirit we achieve it.
Pain turns into compassion.
When that person hurts over what they've done, you share that hurt with them and feel sorry for them.
However, when they're not sorry for what they do this may be something we can not get over without God's strengthening.
When this trespass is done over and over again this act becomes a reckoning.
It is who that person is and it defines the times we live in.
It is who we once were also and probably behave that way still.
This is where we examine ourselves considering Galatians 6:1
"Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; CONSIDERING THYSELF, LEST THOU ALSO BE TEMPTED.
If this is not a Brother or Sister it may be a chance to witness.
Galatians 6:9 "And LET US NOT BE WEARY IN WELL DOING: FOR IN DUE SEASON WE SHALL REAP, if we faint not.
As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.
God bless you Jema.
I'm sure this is an area we all come up short in but we all should be growing in.
Back to the discussion we were having. My thoughts about that and what I have been tought are:
In Matthew 16:19 and John 20:21-23, Jesus gives the apostles the right to forgive sins. So what does that mean? That they can take God's right to forgive or not? Well this doesn't sound right, does it?
I will go to that incident in Corinth whre a brother was having an affair with his father's wife. Paul suggests the members of that church to ( 1 Cor 5:4-5) " 4In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,5To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."
A similar case is described in Matthew 18:15-18. It is the case that a brother sins to another brother and dispite the church telling him to repent he wouldn't repent, so Jesus said "17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.18Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
The above are cases that the church has the right to bind and free, forgive or not. The right of the church to exlude somebody from the congregation and deliver him to satan.
But a question may arise. What if the church is wrong and the specific brother is right. We know from history that many churches took advantage of those verses and exluded believers for all sort of reasons, even political reasons. I firmly believe that in such cases God doesn't pay any attention to such decisions, actualy He is the one who forgives or not.
But I would also like others to comment on those verse and see what they believe.
It may seem redundant to speak of God being an attribute of God but His uniqueness nonetheless has certain characteristics. God sees; feels; hears and smells according to various scriptures. He is a jealous God and angry without sin; as well as having all other traits of perfection. Since man was created in God's image; we need not confine that just to physical appearance; in fact it is the invisible attributes of man such as the soul which we can also compare in some sense to the Spirit of God to get a better handle on His innermost thoughts in communing with Him.
Specifically as Father; God of course chastises all that He loves; He has adopted us into His family and of course He is a father to the fathrless. There certainly are verses where nursing mothers are brought up as well; God has tender attributes and through Christ the children were clearly on His heart (See Psalm 8); and we all have to be as children if we are able to enter the Kingdom of God ( Matthew 18:3). He has delegated authority to the Son; and we as firstfruits are also to be given authority to rule and reign over the earth after suffering here on earth ( 2 Tim. 2:12).
As God; of course we can look at the 3 "O"s (omnipotence; omnipresence; omnicience) or any other characteristics that make Him unique as compared to the rest of His creation. It is perhaps what we cannot understand that is the most profound; such as the subtle ways that He draws us to Him; ways that the Spirit moves which can't be readily defined by all known doctrines or specific scriptures; of unpredictability in case our comprehension somehow wants to confine Him to our own conceptualization of a box. Such things perhaps can be seen with why He has subtle markings on some creatures; novel stars in the universe etc. For every issue "solved" in science another mystery surfaces; man will never know it all
As God of course He can't sin; therrefore all that He says is truth. H
I'm sorry Rainwalker, the belief in a literal Hell & a literal eternal torment for those who have rejected God & His Christ is not an idea from the dark ages nor from the Vatican - this is Scripture & plenty of them to support it. It's how one chooses to read, understand & accept the teachings from the Word that is in question - the Word does not change.
Look at Daniel 12:1,2; Matthew 18:9; Matthew 25:31-46; Mark 9:42-48; 2 Thessalonians 1:5-10; Jude 1:7; Revelation 14:9-11; Revelation 20:10,14,15. These do not speak of an annihilation, but of torment. And what were "their works"? Works of sinful lives, of self-glorification, of being God-haters & Christ-rejecters. If we remove the eternal suffering of Hell, we've lost a great part of our Gospel message, i.e. we not only won't have a Gospel to preach, we won't even need to preach the Gospel. Jude 1:23, "And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh."
If the preacher hasn't got the awful image before him of souls for whom Christ died, going into an eternity of torment, then that preacher is preaching a watered down Gospel, one that tickles the mind but doesn't wrench the heart - a Gospel that only requires a glib acceptance of a lowly Jesus but not weeping in sorrow for sin's wretchedness before an Holy God. Christ didn't give up His Life only to bring sinners into Heaven, but to save them from His Father's Judgement sending them to an eternity of suffering. This is why the cost of Salvation had to be so great - it took the Son of God to come between an Holy God & a hell-deserved, hell-bound sinner. We all have to die one day - but through Christ, not all have to be consigned to Hell.
Since the subject of animals has come up; I thought I would tackle another subject: that of children and the Rapture/Resurrection.
Point One: The Rapture is for the church; therefore it doesn't necessarily prove unbelieving kids are part of that event. Matthew 18:10 makes it clear that children have an angel beholding the Father in heaven continually; that and other verses make it clear that kids all make it to heaven before the age of accountability. They would necessarily rise by the Great White Throne Judgment.
I have noted previously that those who physically survive the Tribulation and die before the end of the Millennium may be among those who are in the Book of Life; rather than assuming all are lost at that Resurrection. Even that is somewhat nebulous as the man who dies at 100 is considered accursed and that may show that only rebels and unbelievers die at that time; the rest living physically the whole Millennium and then standing before God along with the resurrected wicked at that time.
I would tend to think that kids would be Resurrected at the beginning of the Millennium after the Tribulation. Clearly those martyrs in Christ would arise at that time; perhaps a bit sooner actually before the vial judgments after the Trumpet judgments.
I will also say that kids can be prayed for as to being Raptured out and those families already in a Covenant with God may have some sway in regard to that issue with blessings spreading to their offspring. That would NOT go beyond a child's age of accountability however. I would surely expect many youth to come to Christ through the Tribulation who the enemy has not successfully destroyed before that time. Many older folks just won't have the strength to endure very long into that period and energy needed for widespread evangelism. Those kids below the age of accountability will also exist in the Tribulation; most I would expect will die but be saved by God's grace.
Difficult passages in scripture: ordered extermination of children
One of the most challenging things in the Bible is where God ordered the extermination of every man woman and child in conquest of the Promised Land. There is one fairly satisfactory reason why some were killed in this way; they were children of the union of fallen angels and women as first mentioned in Genesis 6; Nephilim which were NOT human and therefore were never to rise again; such as are indicated in Isaiah 26:14 (Rephaim in original translation). They would go to a certain part of the underworld at death.
All other examples seem to involve human children and thus is beyond our scope of full understanding. In fact; such verses make us cringe. Only putting God's Holiness at the forefront of our trust can allow us to deal with such a difficult; painful and weighty matter. Such verses which indicate the death penalty for things which we as a "civilized society" would consider cruel (such as adultery or the example brought up in another recent post in Numbers 15:32-36 on a man being stoned for picking up sticks on the Sabbath) are also examples of things which in the "Age of Grace" aren't enforced today. We could say the same for National Israel when it was a Theocracy; there may be some return in the Millennium or end of the Tribulation when God conquers enemies through His people once again; but I digress.
I would state at this juncture that there is enough scripture to indicate that the soul of a human child will NOT be sent to hell upon death- Matthew 18:10 is probably the most convincing along with the story of David's unborn child in 2 Samuel 12:23.
There is a principle that judgment comes only when a nation is fully ripe for it; such as the case of the Amorites in Genesis 15:16; Nineveh after a respite following repentance; and in Sodom where it is entirely possible there were few if any children.
True, David0921, 'stagnation' would be too subtle a word to more fully describe how the Church at large treats God's Word & deals with sin & rebuke of erring ones. Unfortunately, from my limited experience, it seems that the larger the Church (congregation), the weaker they are in some of these areas we've referred to. The smaller, & probably the more exclusive (sectarian) of them, keep a much more rigid control on behavior & adherence to the Word. Yet, saying that, often their teachings also tend to be a little off-track. A few however, I believe, have found the right balance.
Now, I have a query on what you had earlier written (& now), in discussion with Jema a few days ago: "So when we look at the nature of God's Judgment program very carefully, we find that the Final Punishment is annihilation, that is destruction". And I quote this as you also shared here, "When was the last time you heard a sermon that focused on the Judgment and Wrath of God for sin?" Obviously, I think I have misunderstood you, where it appears that you believe that the final state of man is, either he's enjoying eternal life with the Lord, or a cessation of all existence (annihilation, as you put it). And then the "Wrath of God for sin" as you now stated. Without making any further assumptions, maybe you could clarify your belief, as in my mind I'm unable to reconcile the two statements.
I believe that Matthew 10:28 was quoted as a reference to the complete destruction of soul & body, to which the Greek word does support; as it does to John 3:16 ("perish"), Romans 2:12, 1 Corinthians 8:11, 2 Peter 3:9, and many others. But reference wasn't made to Daniel 12:1,2; Matthew 18:8,9; Matthew 25:46; Jude 1:7; Revelation 20:10,14,15; & others. In the light of these other Scriptures as well as the essence of the Gospel message which requires an eternal suffering, or else we don't have any Good News of salvation to give, how should we understand your statements? Blessings.
There seems to be a different fate; for instance for the wicked servant in Luke 19:22 as compared with Matthew 18:32. The allegory in Matthew in particular seems to indicate someone who is lost; the parable in Luke separates the fate of losing the talent buried in the ground from the fate of those who would not have Him "rule over them." in verse 27. That would seem to indicate someone perhaps a Jew who physically makes it into the Millennium as a sheep and those destroyed the goats at the judgment immediately after the Tribulation.
To differentiate parables into one category or situation is tempting to due to fit a particular doctrinal viewpoint; but clearly there are applications for all wicked and righteous; as well as various rewards or lack thereof for His saints. There are applications for Israel as a nation; as well as the church. The focus certainly is on Israel as to where the events of the end times will occur; and the affects of what goes on in the end times will be felt throughout the earth.
The original question brought up the idea of how God would judge eternally with stripes as it were which could be metaphorical for punishments in hell; but again chastisement as a concept is opposed to wrath. Since He only chastises His own others are left to reap the reward of their doings. There will be varying degrees of punishment in hell; and no doubt those who are reprobate knowing something about God will have harsher sentences.
In summary; it is better to be disciplined now than suffer in hell; but it for His people there can be suffering inflicted by Satan if we persist in rebellion. ( 1 Cor. 5:5). We can be as the person in Proverbs 5:14 almost ruined in the assembly; or approaching death as in Psalm 88. Therefore we should be as David and quickly repent rather than others who stubbornly refuse correction and reap accordingly (such as Solomon). We all should have the mindset of Luke 21:36 but most believers don't.
I would be sadly remiss if I didn't emphasize how we should fear the Lord who can send both body and soul to hell ( Matt. 10:28).
This; in my opinion should elicit a response in the souls of all true believers; as we should be ever greatful for what He did for us on the cross; taking the punishment of God the Father on Himself for our benefit.
What we can do now; however is be ambassadors for the truth; and allow God to make us vessels of reconciliation ( 2 Cor. 5:19).
We cannot save anyone; but are held responsible for the death of others if we don't sound the alarm (see Ezekiel 33). Notice there that they may or may not heed the warning.
One cannot separate the love of God for fear of the Lord; and one cannot appreciate the joys of heaven without realizing the horrors of hell they have been delivered from.
We also have to understand predestination in that regard; if we disagree on certain aspects it is clear that in the end a certain number are saved and sadly it is only "few" according to Christ Himself. ( Luke 13:23 among other verses).
Another thing which needs consideration is the reports of children being in hell. Matthew 18:10; as well as Matthew 21:16 tied to Psalm 8:2; and the testimony of David in 2 Samuel 12:23 should dispel this; there are other verses as well which I may elaborate on in a future posting. Those scenes where people seem baffled or confused as to what is happening to them isn't scriptural; and we also must ponder Hebrews 9:27; and understand that judgment comes first immediately after death (although before the Great White Throne one at the end of the Millennium). The punishment is justly given in different levels depending on the crime. I need to be careful here; but will say that punishment will be no more or less than deserved; more "tolerable" for some as in Matthew 11:22.
In conclusion; God's Word should make us tremble; the subject matter should never be looked at as entertaining.
A woman is said not to have authority over a man ( 1 Timothy 2:12) and that verse also mentions that women shouldn't teach as well. Women are to teach their children however; mentioned just a few verses earlier in 1 Timothy 1:5. There are other verses in Titus and other scriptures where the wisdom of God are to be instructed as well.
It gets fuzzy when we get into such things as a small group. What is considered an informal conversation often morphs with "teaching" in some respect. Certainly there is benefit to women teaching other women ( Titus 2:4-6) which involves bringing up responsible young women and men as well in their domestic duties. Certainly we are all part of God's family so it could extend to other families as well.
The theoretical conundrum is when a woman wishes to Pastor if there is "no man available" for such a role. If it is truly the case and no men are in a congregation; I don't see anything wrong with a woman taking up that role as it were; but as soon as a believing male is present there should be some oversight and transferrance of authority ASAP in that regard.
Also; I have read female authors (one in particular on Bible Prophecy) who is in my opinion uneqalled in the scriptural detail about the end times. She goes to church with her husband and doesn't attempt to have lectures and such on tour; just a website. Such conferences that women have are often sold as a sort of motivational talk but often are more like women taking over preaching as s Pastor role. Most of the time there appears to be egregious error in such cases; as to when wives and husbands have a "co-ministry".
The authority of a Pastor also is an elder role; which carries with it a supervisory role protecting the flock; exercising authority for church discipline and other matters. That does NOT mean that women shouldn't report an erring sister or brother although when do you hear about that? Matthew 18:15-20 should proceed from there with men.
The great commission in Matthew 28 comes after others discussing how we should pray more laborers are sent into the harvest. ( Matt. 9:38; Luke 10:2). It also follows the "test run" of the seventy sent out to proclaim the Good News ( Luke 10:1).
Jesus; of course was the "first of the firstfruits" ( 1 Cor. 15:23). He came to suffer as we did; but without sin and now sits at the right hand of God ever to intercede for us. ( Romans 8:34; Hebrews 7:25).
The fact that He was a man of sorrows as Isaiah predicted; and the life of the Apostles wasn't exactly a cakewalk serves as a reality check to the remnant who remains steadfast today in the Word. Jesus spent much time weeding people out; and it seems often that His own disciples were often more of a hindrance than anything else. Still; there is much to learn when we discover the principle of two or more together and how the Lord is present with us ( Matthew 18:20).
Today; there seems to be the concept of individual membership into the Body of Christ rather than how we are to function as a corporate entity. I have yet to see how various giftings can edify a church; the best I've seen is someone gifted in teaching as a Pastor; or an individual here or there that has occasionally said something profound in terms of a Word of wisdom or knowledge. At many of today's Pentacostal churches you see a heavy emphasis on tongues with little evident in terms of discernment; for instance.
Quite frankly; apart from a lack of sacrificial love found in many fellowships or perhaps contributing to it is the fact that where people feel most comfortable is relaxing at home; with their own circle of family or friends or for some singles just isolating themselves. Fact is; if we don't enjoy fellowshipping together it becomes a ritual which we perform for the minimum amount of time; with a minimum of effort and worst of all with little of our heart and soul invested.
According to Genesis 4:15; a mark set upon Cain was to cause vengeance to anyone who would attempt to take his life. Compare this to the Mark of the Beast in Revelation 13 and we find some interesting parallels.
First; Satan was a "murderer from the beginning." ( John 8:44). It is no surprise that the first child of Adam was to be attacked after Adam and Eve fell. Having failed the test of God he let temptation rule over him and slayed Abel his brother. Satan is also said to steal and destroy ( John 10:10) along with his lying. We see the progeny of Adam and Eve being destroyed; along with stealing from the parents being able to give an inheritance and Abel receiving it.
Later on in Genesis 4:24 Lamech tries to gain vengeance by his declaration of seventy times seventy for himself for his own violent actions. Kind of like the opposite of forgiveness for the same in Matthew 18:21-22.
The apparent resurrection of Antichrist from a deadly wound as well as being able to kill the two prophets that tormented men will inspire him to declare indestructibility as well as being able to effectively fight against God. He will likely convince men that he can live forever by merging with AI; and likely the DNA of the Nephilim or something to that affect will be part of that plan; as it was in Genesis 6 when all the descendants of men were destroyed for that reason (see Genesis 6:8-9 on Noah being perfect in his generations). Hence at that time we saw no repentance except for Noah; his wife; his 3 sons and their wives.
Whatever the case men will be unredeemable once they take the mark ( Revelation 14:9 and other passages). That will be the fulfillment of 2 Thessalonians 2:11 where people willingly reject the truth and believe The Lie.
The verse on those who dwell on the earth ( Revelation 11:10; also see Revelation 6:10 and other passages) indicates the sea of lost humanity. Revelation 13:8 concludes this for all unsaved.
I have seen this connection made between Matthew 13:24-30 & Revelation 14:14-20 before, Tammy, but as you study those passages, you may notice some clear differences. To give them much detail here would take too long, so I'll highlight them, to show that these are not the same events.
Matthew 13:24-30 (with the parable's interpretation given in vv 36-43). The Sower is the Lord Who planted His Seed (which brought forth His children) in His field (the Church, His Body). But the enemy (Satan) also has his way & planted his seed (of unregenerate & evil hearts) amongst the good seed. If this was the world spoken of & not the Church, then identification between the good & evil would be easy. Of course, as they grew together, they appeared the same, until the tares showed their true color. Using Jesus' instruction in Matthew 18:15-17, those tares that could be easily seen amongst them can be exposed for who they are, but often they can't be seen until Christ's examination, judgement, & removal. The believers will be gathered by the reapers at the harvest unto Him & the imposters burned with fire. Given that this parable was spoken amongst the Jews, there could be application to those who were righteous under the Law ("children of the kingdom") & the unrighteous amongst them.
Revelation 14:14-20, the Reaper is the Lord (v16) and the angel who had the sickle did the gathering. What was reaped & what was gathered? "..the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are ripe". These are not the tares in Matthew, but are shown as being slashed off the vine, & that at their crushing, their juice (as blood) came out in volumes as a result of Christ's Judgement; maybe at that great final battle when the enemies of Christ are slaughtered ( Revelation 19:17-21).
The parable of the wheat & the tares is for "the end of this world" ( Matthew 13:40), not post-trib, nor pre-trib. So I don't read this parable as you do & in comparing it with Revelation 14.
Based on your initial question, then based on your disagreement with someone who answered your question, I'm not sure you were genuinely seeking an answer. But in case its helpful to any one else viewing the topic I'll share my thoughts.
Some say we're all born into sin- from the original sin. I believe the original sin affects all of us. Jesus was sinless and perfect His whole life. He's the only one like that.
Based on references like Matthew 18:3 I think it's possible that we're born innocent, pure, and sinless, but is inevitable sin will occur. All people sin (Jesus is the only exception). Mary is not an exception, nor any other people from the Bible. This verse Psalm 51:5 suggests Mary had sin. There is no such verse claiming she was any different than anyone else, other than being chosen for giving birth to Jesus.
When I see some Catholics praying to Mary, chanting to her, singing to her, worshipping her, making graven images of her and bowing down to her statue, it seems like an obvious sin of idolatry- violating the 2nd commandment: Deuteronomy 5:7.
Acts 4:12 says there's no one else but Jesus. Not Mary, not a pope, not a pastor, not the government, not family, or friends, or anyone else but Jesus in whom we should put our hope and trust in.
Dear Latonyad, you don't want to forgive your sister anymore. But, Latonyad, it's not your will, but His that should be done, and He says in Matthew 18:21-22, "Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven." In other words, forgive without ceasing.
6.But if you cause one of these little ones who trusts in me to fall into sin, it would be better for you to have a large millstone tied around your neck and be drowned in the depths of the sea.
-This bible verse speaks of false prophets or preachers that miss lead the church of God.
The false preachers have turned the gospel of God to of no effects.
The false preacher when you read the word of God you will notice that they haven't be sent but have sent themselves. Hence the message they preach is made up and under demonic influence.
-Jesus the son of God is saying this to those false preachers who have no fear of God and don't understand that God is the creator of heaven and earth and it is He who made us and those false Preacher it is better for them to have a millstone hang around their neck and them to drown into the sea than be in the hands of God who is a consuming fire Hebrews 12:29
This bible verse has no reference to Judas but point out the little ones are children in faith
Please Pray for understanding which Cames from God
I am feeling led to share a dream I had while sleeping recently. ( Jeremiah 23:28-30, )
the dream; There was a man & woman that seemed "closed off" like not wanting to get involved or be helpful, they seemed pleasant, polite. They were closing the front door of their home. Me & my 2 sons were in a vehicle, in the driveway of that man & woman. The house was on the left. I heard the LORD say in my spirit, "I AM now going to judge the greedy, rich, & corrupt." I felt a fearful Awe. Instantly the wind started blowing. My sons noticed something & told me to look. They insisted. I looked more intently. There were two trees. One seemed more like a bush, the other like a small tree. One was pulled up by the wind with roots blown left possibly at the back of house. We couldn't see damage. Then the electric poles that were in front of us & to the left were ripped up, & pulled that same direction. We knew it was going to cause a continued reaction, from the connected powerlines behind us. Before we could turn around to look back, the powerlines were dragged upon & over our vehicle, lighting it up with the electricity. Then being pulled a twisted mess of hotwires were in a powerful explosion of fire & electricity infront of us. The sun had set, it was dark outside so the intensity of the brightness was even more vivid. The dream switches to a large tornado above a large mirrored glass skyscraper & city. I was with many people outside. I loudly told everyone to pray. People furthest away on the left were beginning to be swept away before the large whirlwind was above us. Urgently I started to pray outloud for mercy. I plead that none should perish ( 2Peter 3:9, & Matthew 18:14,). The tornado broke apart in an unusual way, into many pieces & completely dispersed away. All the people within the streets nearby were safe, we were unharmed in all of those things, yet experienced the full intensity. End of dream.
A More correct translation of Matt 18:18 , I understand, is this...
Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth SHALL HAVING BEEN bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth SHALL HAVING BEEN loosed in heaven.
The action originates with God; not the church. God is not subject to our actions. We are subject to His.
Paul your request for your grandchild touches me...I am praying right now in the name of JESUS the very Kingdom of God that she makes a full recovery....And i rebuke satan in the name of Jesus that he neva touches her again....ok gbu Paul...And i also pray for you and your whole family...Even In the name of the babes and sucklings that are always before his throne...beholding the face of very God as Jesus said.... Matthew 18:10
Part 3.
How should Christian treat one another?
We are to be at peace with one another, forgive one another, have mercy on one another.
Just a few references.
1 Thessalonians 4:9
Ephesians 4:32
Galatians 5:26
Galatians 6:2
Matthew 7:12
1 John 4:7
However, we don't lie or deceive one another for the sake of peace. The truth hurts sometimes but it promotes spiritual growth providing that the Christ spirit is in the person.
BELEIVERS SHUNNING OTHER BELEIVERS.
To shun is to deliberately avoid something or someone. In the Bible, the word shun is applied to evil. Job 1:8, Job 28:28, Proverbs 3:7-8 Proverbs 14:16. So, shunning evil is good.
There is scripture that promotes excommunication. Matthew 18:15-17; 2 Thessalonians 3:14. but do we do it for harm or Good? What's the intent?
In any case, it would seem that extreme forms of shunning, such as considering someone "dead," utterly ignoring him, or refusing to acknowledge his existence, go beyond what Scripture commands.
After all, Jesus said that, when someone is put out of the church, he should be treated as "a pagan or a tax collector" Matthew 18:17. In other words, treat an intractable offender as an unsaved person.
How are we to treat the unsaved? With love and grace.
The "pagans and tax collectors" need to be evangelized. We are to love even our enemies ( Matthew 5:44).
The goal of excommunication and any form of shunning is restoration ( Galatians 6:1).
The purpose of any type of discipline is to prompt repentance and, ultimately, to reunite our fallen brother or sister with the church body. Being officially ostracized from the church, the sinner might be brought to repentance.
When the man in the Corinthian church later realized that he had sinned against God, he repented and came back to the church for forgiveness and reinstatement. Fellowship with the Corinthian believers was restored ( 2 Corinthians 2:6-11).
Isn't it hateful to ignore or shun other believers?
See part 4.
There is a lot of evil in this world, fallen angels, demons, evil people, and the head honcho Satan the devil. As we see in 2 Corinthians 11:13-15 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
They make merchandise of those who fall into their deception, 2 Peter 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. They look up to heaven and see all the stars are 20-dollar bills, the love of money is so powerful, that many cannot resist.
Does God allow it? Since it is so prevalent, I am sure God has His reasons, but we do not see the result. Deuteronomy 18:20 and Matthew 18:6 and many more their punishment will be great. We are to go humbly and in prayer to the Bible with open ears and trust God through the Holy Spirit for the truth and share it in how we are led.
Their intentions only God knows, God will allow us to choose the road of this world, filled with riches but we know all the wealth of this world is filth compared to the true riches we have in Christ, that the narrow rocky road leads to. As Jesus said take heed that no man deceive you.
God bless,
RLW
Father, in Jesus' Name, I seek Your wisdom and trust You to direct me in seeking the job that is best for me. I will walk in mercy and truth and lean not unto my own understanding. Thank You for opening wide a door which no man can shut and for giving me favor.
I pray today not only for myself but for all of those in need of assistance in their lives. I have read your prayers and I am with you in spirit. Pray with me.
Lord you know their worries and pain. Please help them. Wipe away their tears and help them solve their problems in Jesus name. Amen.
xoxoxo
You are very welcome! I agree. They were defrauding each other, and Paul admonished them for it. Church today is run so much different than it was in Paul's day. Today, it seems as though church fellowships do not want "stir the pot" and are more concerned about losing members than following instruction set forth in scripture.
The believers in Corinth were taking each other to court before a non-believing judge to judge matters that should have been handled between themselves. Paul corrected them for that.
Should we "turn the other cheek" in all situations? I think that's something we would have to settle in our own hearts, consulting with the Lord of course!
Personally, I would not sue another believer. I know it's easier said than done, but I don't believe that is something I would do. But I agree with you completely that there is a lack of church involvement in such matters.
I wonder also about the precepts of sin against a brother that is given to us in Matthew 18:15-20. How many church fellowships today follow that model?
As for the kissing on the cheek as Paul told them to do, that was their normal way of greeting each other at that time. In fact, they still greet each other that way in the Middle East. If you ever watch news clips of dignitaries greeting each other in the Middle East, they still kiss on each cheek. I don't think there would be anything wrong with us doing the same. We might get some funny looks (or slapped), but that's the way they greet each other in the Middle East and did so in Paul's day. It would be equivalent to our handshake or hug when we greet someone.
God Bless!!!
This is a great topic, being that we all have dealt with having to forgive someone and also have had to be forgiven ourselves.
Your question, "How do we let go of the pain" is a good question!
I believe a good example of what is expected of us is seen in
Matthew 18:21-35.
The problem is how do we accomplish this?
I believe you answered your own question. PRAYER!
I would add humility to that.
If we humble ourselves and be truthful we all trespass against the Lord and we beg for his forgiveness.
God don't just forgive us, he is longsuffering and he has mercy on us.
We don't measure up to that standard so we also trespass in return.
To demonstrate this kind of display is a virtue of Love.
This is a area we grow in.
When we put forward the effort to perform it, by the enrichment of the Spirit we achieve it.
Pain turns into compassion.
When that person hurts over what they've done, you share that hurt with them and feel sorry for them.
However, when they're not sorry for what they do this may be something we can not get over without God's strengthening.
When this trespass is done over and over again this act becomes a reckoning.
It is who that person is and it defines the times we live in.
It is who we once were also and probably behave that way still.
This is where we examine ourselves considering Galatians 6:1
"Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; CONSIDERING THYSELF, LEST THOU ALSO BE TEMPTED.
If this is not a Brother or Sister it may be a chance to witness.
Galatians 6:9 "And LET US NOT BE WEARY IN WELL DOING: FOR IN DUE SEASON WE SHALL REAP, if we faint not.
As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.
God bless you Jema.
I'm sure this is an area we all come up short in but we all should be growing in.
Praise God for his longsuffering and Mercy.
Back to the discussion we were having. My thoughts about that and what I have been tought are:
In Matthew 16:19 and John 20:21-23, Jesus gives the apostles the right to forgive sins. So what does that mean? That they can take God's right to forgive or not? Well this doesn't sound right, does it?
I will go to that incident in Corinth whre a brother was having an affair with his father's wife. Paul suggests the members of that church to ( 1 Cor 5:4-5) " 4In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,5To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."
A similar case is described in Matthew 18:15-18. It is the case that a brother sins to another brother and dispite the church telling him to repent he wouldn't repent, so Jesus said "17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.18Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
The above are cases that the church has the right to bind and free, forgive or not. The right of the church to exlude somebody from the congregation and deliver him to satan.
But a question may arise. What if the church is wrong and the specific brother is right. We know from history that many churches took advantage of those verses and exluded believers for all sort of reasons, even political reasons. I firmly believe that in such cases God doesn't pay any attention to such decisions, actualy He is the one who forgives or not.
But I would also like others to comment on those verse and see what they believe.
Have a blessed week.
It may seem redundant to speak of God being an attribute of God but His uniqueness nonetheless has certain characteristics. God sees; feels; hears and smells according to various scriptures. He is a jealous God and angry without sin; as well as having all other traits of perfection. Since man was created in God's image; we need not confine that just to physical appearance; in fact it is the invisible attributes of man such as the soul which we can also compare in some sense to the Spirit of God to get a better handle on His innermost thoughts in communing with Him.
Specifically as Father; God of course chastises all that He loves; He has adopted us into His family and of course He is a father to the fathrless. There certainly are verses where nursing mothers are brought up as well; God has tender attributes and through Christ the children were clearly on His heart (See Psalm 8); and we all have to be as children if we are able to enter the Kingdom of God ( Matthew 18:3). He has delegated authority to the Son; and we as firstfruits are also to be given authority to rule and reign over the earth after suffering here on earth ( 2 Tim. 2:12).
As God; of course we can look at the 3 "O"s (omnipotence; omnipresence; omnicience) or any other characteristics that make Him unique as compared to the rest of His creation. It is perhaps what we cannot understand that is the most profound; such as the subtle ways that He draws us to Him; ways that the Spirit moves which can't be readily defined by all known doctrines or specific scriptures; of unpredictability in case our comprehension somehow wants to confine Him to our own conceptualization of a box. Such things perhaps can be seen with why He has subtle markings on some creatures; novel stars in the universe etc. For every issue "solved" in science another mystery surfaces; man will never know it all
As God of course He can't sin; therrefore all that He says is truth. H
Look at Daniel 12:1,2; Matthew 18:9; Matthew 25:31-46; Mark 9:42-48; 2 Thessalonians 1:5-10; Jude 1:7; Revelation 14:9-11; Revelation 20:10,14,15. These do not speak of an annihilation, but of torment. And what were "their works"? Works of sinful lives, of self-glorification, of being God-haters & Christ-rejecters. If we remove the eternal suffering of Hell, we've lost a great part of our Gospel message, i.e. we not only won't have a Gospel to preach, we won't even need to preach the Gospel. Jude 1:23, "And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh."
If the preacher hasn't got the awful image before him of souls for whom Christ died, going into an eternity of torment, then that preacher is preaching a watered down Gospel, one that tickles the mind but doesn't wrench the heart - a Gospel that only requires a glib acceptance of a lowly Jesus but not weeping in sorrow for sin's wretchedness before an Holy God. Christ didn't give up His Life only to bring sinners into Heaven, but to save them from His Father's Judgement sending them to an eternity of suffering. This is why the cost of Salvation had to be so great - it took the Son of God to come between an Holy God & a hell-deserved, hell-bound sinner. We all have to die one day - but through Christ, not all have to be consigned to Hell.
Since the subject of animals has come up; I thought I would tackle another subject: that of children and the Rapture/Resurrection.
Point One: The Rapture is for the church; therefore it doesn't necessarily prove unbelieving kids are part of that event. Matthew 18:10 makes it clear that children have an angel beholding the Father in heaven continually; that and other verses make it clear that kids all make it to heaven before the age of accountability. They would necessarily rise by the Great White Throne Judgment.
I have noted previously that those who physically survive the Tribulation and die before the end of the Millennium may be among those who are in the Book of Life; rather than assuming all are lost at that Resurrection. Even that is somewhat nebulous as the man who dies at 100 is considered accursed and that may show that only rebels and unbelievers die at that time; the rest living physically the whole Millennium and then standing before God along with the resurrected wicked at that time.
I would tend to think that kids would be Resurrected at the beginning of the Millennium after the Tribulation. Clearly those martyrs in Christ would arise at that time; perhaps a bit sooner actually before the vial judgments after the Trumpet judgments.
I will also say that kids can be prayed for as to being Raptured out and those families already in a Covenant with God may have some sway in regard to that issue with blessings spreading to their offspring. That would NOT go beyond a child's age of accountability however. I would surely expect many youth to come to Christ through the Tribulation who the enemy has not successfully destroyed before that time. Many older folks just won't have the strength to endure very long into that period and energy needed for widespread evangelism. Those kids below the age of accountability will also exist in the Tribulation; most I would expect will die but be saved by God's grace.
One of the most challenging things in the Bible is where God ordered the extermination of every man woman and child in conquest of the Promised Land. There is one fairly satisfactory reason why some were killed in this way; they were children of the union of fallen angels and women as first mentioned in Genesis 6; Nephilim which were NOT human and therefore were never to rise again; such as are indicated in Isaiah 26:14 (Rephaim in original translation). They would go to a certain part of the underworld at death.
All other examples seem to involve human children and thus is beyond our scope of full understanding. In fact; such verses make us cringe. Only putting God's Holiness at the forefront of our trust can allow us to deal with such a difficult; painful and weighty matter. Such verses which indicate the death penalty for things which we as a "civilized society" would consider cruel (such as adultery or the example brought up in another recent post in Numbers 15:32-36 on a man being stoned for picking up sticks on the Sabbath) are also examples of things which in the "Age of Grace" aren't enforced today. We could say the same for National Israel when it was a Theocracy; there may be some return in the Millennium or end of the Tribulation when God conquers enemies through His people once again; but I digress.
I would state at this juncture that there is enough scripture to indicate that the soul of a human child will NOT be sent to hell upon death- Matthew 18:10 is probably the most convincing along with the story of David's unborn child in 2 Samuel 12:23.
There is a principle that judgment comes only when a nation is fully ripe for it; such as the case of the Amorites in Genesis 15:16; Nineveh after a respite following repentance; and in Sodom where it is entirely possible there were few if any children.
I will continue this discussion in further posts.
Now, I have a query on what you had earlier written (& now), in discussion with Jema a few days ago: "So when we look at the nature of God's Judgment program very carefully, we find that the Final Punishment is annihilation, that is destruction". And I quote this as you also shared here, "When was the last time you heard a sermon that focused on the Judgment and Wrath of God for sin?" Obviously, I think I have misunderstood you, where it appears that you believe that the final state of man is, either he's enjoying eternal life with the Lord, or a cessation of all existence (annihilation, as you put it). And then the "Wrath of God for sin" as you now stated. Without making any further assumptions, maybe you could clarify your belief, as in my mind I'm unable to reconcile the two statements.
I believe that Matthew 10:28 was quoted as a reference to the complete destruction of soul & body, to which the Greek word does support; as it does to John 3:16 ("perish"), Romans 2:12, 1 Corinthians 8:11, 2 Peter 3:9, and many others. But reference wasn't made to Daniel 12:1,2; Matthew 18:8,9; Matthew 25:46; Jude 1:7; Revelation 20:10,14,15; & others. In the light of these other Scriptures as well as the essence of the Gospel message which requires an eternal suffering, or else we don't have any Good News of salvation to give, how should we understand your statements? Blessings.
There seems to be a different fate; for instance for the wicked servant in Luke 19:22 as compared with Matthew 18:32. The allegory in Matthew in particular seems to indicate someone who is lost; the parable in Luke separates the fate of losing the talent buried in the ground from the fate of those who would not have Him "rule over them." in verse 27. That would seem to indicate someone perhaps a Jew who physically makes it into the Millennium as a sheep and those destroyed the goats at the judgment immediately after the Tribulation.
To differentiate parables into one category or situation is tempting to due to fit a particular doctrinal viewpoint; but clearly there are applications for all wicked and righteous; as well as various rewards or lack thereof for His saints. There are applications for Israel as a nation; as well as the church. The focus certainly is on Israel as to where the events of the end times will occur; and the affects of what goes on in the end times will be felt throughout the earth.
The original question brought up the idea of how God would judge eternally with stripes as it were which could be metaphorical for punishments in hell; but again chastisement as a concept is opposed to wrath. Since He only chastises His own others are left to reap the reward of their doings. There will be varying degrees of punishment in hell; and no doubt those who are reprobate knowing something about God will have harsher sentences.
In summary; it is better to be disciplined now than suffer in hell; but it for His people there can be suffering inflicted by Satan if we persist in rebellion. ( 1 Cor. 5:5). We can be as the person in Proverbs 5:14 almost ruined in the assembly; or approaching death as in Psalm 88. Therefore we should be as David and quickly repent rather than others who stubbornly refuse correction and reap accordingly (such as Solomon). We all should have the mindset of Luke 21:36 but most believers don't.
I would be sadly remiss if I didn't emphasize how we should fear the Lord who can send both body and soul to hell ( Matt. 10:28).
This; in my opinion should elicit a response in the souls of all true believers; as we should be ever greatful for what He did for us on the cross; taking the punishment of God the Father on Himself for our benefit.
What we can do now; however is be ambassadors for the truth; and allow God to make us vessels of reconciliation ( 2 Cor. 5:19).
We cannot save anyone; but are held responsible for the death of others if we don't sound the alarm (see Ezekiel 33). Notice there that they may or may not heed the warning.
One cannot separate the love of God for fear of the Lord; and one cannot appreciate the joys of heaven without realizing the horrors of hell they have been delivered from.
We also have to understand predestination in that regard; if we disagree on certain aspects it is clear that in the end a certain number are saved and sadly it is only "few" according to Christ Himself. ( Luke 13:23 among other verses).
Another thing which needs consideration is the reports of children being in hell. Matthew 18:10; as well as Matthew 21:16 tied to Psalm 8:2; and the testimony of David in 2 Samuel 12:23 should dispel this; there are other verses as well which I may elaborate on in a future posting. Those scenes where people seem baffled or confused as to what is happening to them isn't scriptural; and we also must ponder Hebrews 9:27; and understand that judgment comes first immediately after death (although before the Great White Throne one at the end of the Millennium). The punishment is justly given in different levels depending on the crime. I need to be careful here; but will say that punishment will be no more or less than deserved; more "tolerable" for some as in Matthew 11:22.
In conclusion; God's Word should make us tremble; the subject matter should never be looked at as entertaining.
It gets fuzzy when we get into such things as a small group. What is considered an informal conversation often morphs with "teaching" in some respect. Certainly there is benefit to women teaching other women ( Titus 2:4-6) which involves bringing up responsible young women and men as well in their domestic duties. Certainly we are all part of God's family so it could extend to other families as well.
The theoretical conundrum is when a woman wishes to Pastor if there is "no man available" for such a role. If it is truly the case and no men are in a congregation; I don't see anything wrong with a woman taking up that role as it were; but as soon as a believing male is present there should be some oversight and transferrance of authority ASAP in that regard.
Also; I have read female authors (one in particular on Bible Prophecy) who is in my opinion uneqalled in the scriptural detail about the end times. She goes to church with her husband and doesn't attempt to have lectures and such on tour; just a website. Such conferences that women have are often sold as a sort of motivational talk but often are more like women taking over preaching as s Pastor role. Most of the time there appears to be egregious error in such cases; as to when wives and husbands have a "co-ministry".
The authority of a Pastor also is an elder role; which carries with it a supervisory role protecting the flock; exercising authority for church discipline and other matters. That does NOT mean that women shouldn't report an erring sister or brother although when do you hear about that? Matthew 18:15-20 should proceed from there with men.
The great commission in Matthew 28 comes after others discussing how we should pray more laborers are sent into the harvest. ( Matt. 9:38; Luke 10:2). It also follows the "test run" of the seventy sent out to proclaim the Good News ( Luke 10:1).
Jesus; of course was the "first of the firstfruits" ( 1 Cor. 15:23). He came to suffer as we did; but without sin and now sits at the right hand of God ever to intercede for us. ( Romans 8:34; Hebrews 7:25).
The fact that He was a man of sorrows as Isaiah predicted; and the life of the Apostles wasn't exactly a cakewalk serves as a reality check to the remnant who remains steadfast today in the Word. Jesus spent much time weeding people out; and it seems often that His own disciples were often more of a hindrance than anything else. Still; there is much to learn when we discover the principle of two or more together and how the Lord is present with us ( Matthew 18:20).
Today; there seems to be the concept of individual membership into the Body of Christ rather than how we are to function as a corporate entity. I have yet to see how various giftings can edify a church; the best I've seen is someone gifted in teaching as a Pastor; or an individual here or there that has occasionally said something profound in terms of a Word of wisdom or knowledge. At many of today's Pentacostal churches you see a heavy emphasis on tongues with little evident in terms of discernment; for instance.
Quite frankly; apart from a lack of sacrificial love found in many fellowships or perhaps contributing to it is the fact that where people feel most comfortable is relaxing at home; with their own circle of family or friends or for some singles just isolating themselves. Fact is; if we don't enjoy fellowshipping together it becomes a ritual which we perform for the minimum amount of time; with a minimum of effort and worst of all with little of our heart and soul invested.
According to Genesis 4:15; a mark set upon Cain was to cause vengeance to anyone who would attempt to take his life. Compare this to the Mark of the Beast in Revelation 13 and we find some interesting parallels.
First; Satan was a "murderer from the beginning." ( John 8:44). It is no surprise that the first child of Adam was to be attacked after Adam and Eve fell. Having failed the test of God he let temptation rule over him and slayed Abel his brother. Satan is also said to steal and destroy ( John 10:10) along with his lying. We see the progeny of Adam and Eve being destroyed; along with stealing from the parents being able to give an inheritance and Abel receiving it.
Later on in Genesis 4:24 Lamech tries to gain vengeance by his declaration of seventy times seventy for himself for his own violent actions. Kind of like the opposite of forgiveness for the same in Matthew 18:21-22.
The apparent resurrection of Antichrist from a deadly wound as well as being able to kill the two prophets that tormented men will inspire him to declare indestructibility as well as being able to effectively fight against God. He will likely convince men that he can live forever by merging with AI; and likely the DNA of the Nephilim or something to that affect will be part of that plan; as it was in Genesis 6 when all the descendants of men were destroyed for that reason (see Genesis 6:8-9 on Noah being perfect in his generations). Hence at that time we saw no repentance except for Noah; his wife; his 3 sons and their wives.
Whatever the case men will be unredeemable once they take the mark ( Revelation 14:9 and other passages). That will be the fulfillment of 2 Thessalonians 2:11 where people willingly reject the truth and believe The Lie.
The verse on those who dwell on the earth ( Revelation 11:10; also see Revelation 6:10 and other passages) indicates the sea of lost humanity. Revelation 13:8 concludes this for all unsaved.
Matthew 13:24-30 (with the parable's interpretation given in vv 36-43). The Sower is the Lord Who planted His Seed (which brought forth His children) in His field (the Church, His Body). But the enemy (Satan) also has his way & planted his seed (of unregenerate & evil hearts) amongst the good seed. If this was the world spoken of & not the Church, then identification between the good & evil would be easy. Of course, as they grew together, they appeared the same, until the tares showed their true color. Using Jesus' instruction in Matthew 18:15-17, those tares that could be easily seen amongst them can be exposed for who they are, but often they can't be seen until Christ's examination, judgement, & removal. The believers will be gathered by the reapers at the harvest unto Him & the imposters burned with fire. Given that this parable was spoken amongst the Jews, there could be application to those who were righteous under the Law ("children of the kingdom") & the unrighteous amongst them.
Revelation 14:14-20, the Reaper is the Lord (v16) and the angel who had the sickle did the gathering. What was reaped & what was gathered? "..the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are ripe". These are not the tares in Matthew, but are shown as being slashed off the vine, & that at their crushing, their juice (as blood) came out in volumes as a result of Christ's Judgement; maybe at that great final battle when the enemies of Christ are slaughtered ( Revelation 19:17-21).
The parable of the wheat & the tares is for "the end of this world" ( Matthew 13:40), not post-trib, nor pre-trib. So I don't read this parable as you do & in comparing it with Revelation 14.
Based on your initial question, then based on your disagreement with someone who answered your question, I'm not sure you were genuinely seeking an answer. But in case its helpful to any one else viewing the topic I'll share my thoughts.
Some say we're all born into sin- from the original sin. I believe the original sin affects all of us. Jesus was sinless and perfect His whole life. He's the only one like that.
Based on references like Matthew 18:3 I think it's possible that we're born innocent, pure, and sinless, but is inevitable sin will occur. All people sin (Jesus is the only exception). Mary is not an exception, nor any other people from the Bible. This verse Psalm 51:5 suggests Mary had sin. There is no such verse claiming she was any different than anyone else, other than being chosen for giving birth to Jesus.
When I see some Catholics praying to Mary, chanting to her, singing to her, worshipping her, making graven images of her and bowing down to her statue, it seems like an obvious sin of idolatry- violating the 2nd commandment: Deuteronomy 5:7.
Acts 4:12 says there's no one else but Jesus. Not Mary, not a pope, not a pastor, not the government, not family, or friends, or anyone else but Jesus in whom we should put our hope and trust in.
God bless.
6.But if you cause one of these little ones who trusts in me to fall into sin, it would be better for you to have a large millstone tied around your neck and be drowned in the depths of the sea.
-This bible verse speaks of false prophets or preachers that miss lead the church of God.
The false preachers have turned the gospel of God to of no effects.
The false preacher when you read the word of God you will notice that they haven't be sent but have sent themselves. Hence the message they preach is made up and under demonic influence.
-Jesus the son of God is saying this to those false preachers who have no fear of God and don't understand that God is the creator of heaven and earth and it is He who made us and those false Preacher it is better for them to have a millstone hang around their neck and them to drown into the sea than be in the hands of God who is a consuming fire Hebrews 12:29
This bible verse has no reference to Judas but point out the little ones are children in faith
Please Pray for understanding which Cames from God
the dream; There was a man & woman that seemed "closed off" like not wanting to get involved or be helpful, they seemed pleasant, polite. They were closing the front door of their home. Me & my 2 sons were in a vehicle, in the driveway of that man & woman. The house was on the left. I heard the LORD say in my spirit, "I AM now going to judge the greedy, rich, & corrupt." I felt a fearful Awe. Instantly the wind started blowing. My sons noticed something & told me to look. They insisted. I looked more intently. There were two trees. One seemed more like a bush, the other like a small tree. One was pulled up by the wind with roots blown left possibly at the back of house. We couldn't see damage. Then the electric poles that were in front of us & to the left were ripped up, & pulled that same direction. We knew it was going to cause a continued reaction, from the connected powerlines behind us. Before we could turn around to look back, the powerlines were dragged upon & over our vehicle, lighting it up with the electricity. Then being pulled a twisted mess of hotwires were in a powerful explosion of fire & electricity infront of us. The sun had set, it was dark outside so the intensity of the brightness was even more vivid. The dream switches to a large tornado above a large mirrored glass skyscraper & city. I was with many people outside. I loudly told everyone to pray. People furthest away on the left were beginning to be swept away before the large whirlwind was above us. Urgently I started to pray outloud for mercy. I plead that none should perish ( 2Peter 3:9, & Matthew 18:14,). The tornado broke apart in an unusual way, into many pieces & completely dispersed away. All the people within the streets nearby were safe, we were unharmed in all of those things, yet experienced the full intensity. End of dream.
Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth SHALL HAVING BEEN bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth SHALL HAVING BEEN loosed in heaven.
The action originates with God; not the church. God is not subject to our actions. We are subject to His.
Truly I say to you, Whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatever you shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
It doesn't say we have to "read, in the name of" but when we pray, receive a child, or when people are being baptized,
Jesus name is the principal thing. Matthew 18:5,20, Mark 9:37,39,41,48, Mark 16:15-18, John 14:13,14,26, John 15, John 16:23-28,
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