Discuss Matthew 24 Page 22

Kathy, you asked where in the Bible it says that salvation can be lost and someone was kind enough to respond and show you exactly where. Some of the questions were already answered on the reply.

I will go ahead and reply to your specific questions again in hope that this could be a genuine question.

>If salvation can be lost, by what means?

Luke 12:10 says blasphemy of the holy ghost is unforgiveable. That means if someone chooses to commit this sin, Christian or not, they will not be forgiven and will go to hell.

Hebrews 10:26

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,". This means if a Christian continues in unrepentant sin they are in danger of having no grace to save them.

>Those scriptures you gave are misquoted.

No, they are not misquoted. When you hover over them they show the 100% correct scriptures. When I referred to them I highlighted the portion of scripture being referred to by using elipses... For proper context one should read the whole chapter and book.

>Here you have my salvation but you practiced free will and sinned so I retract your salvation.??? Really?

Is this an emotional argument being presented against the Bible? You will have to take that up with God. Luke 12:10 is clear and there's not much room to interpret it any other way. I'd be quite surprised if Christians who have denounced the faith, turned their back on God, who hate God and have chosen to commit unlimited sin, are welcomed to spent eternity with God in heaven. Likewise, what Jesus said in John 14:15 is clear. If someone doesn't obey, that means they don't love Jesus. Do you expect ho doesn't love Jesus go to heaven?

I've also heard an illogical argument claiming that real Christians can't or won't deny Jesus, as if they no longer have freewill. If this were true then there wouldn't be "ex-Christian" social media forums. Prominent Christian evangelists have denounced the faith before. Satan is real and can deceive Christians.

>Salvation at judgement?

Romans 14:12. 1 Peter 1:13, 2 Corinthians 5:10, 2 Peter 2:9

Amen! One must take all scriptures in context to gain proper understanding of God's truth. Sadly in this discussion we see cherry picking and ignoring verses that maybe are inconvenient to what someone wants to believe, rather than taking God's word at face value in context, praying, and seeking Him for understanding. We all should pray for wisdom in understanding the scriptures.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.

Amen to these professions of faith in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

If salvation can be lost, by what means? What is the ultimate sin? Murder? Then the man after God's own heart had to start his salvation all over again. Is God an Indian giver? Here you have my salvation but you practiced free will and sinned so I retract your salvation.??? Really?

Those scriptures you gave are misquoted. 1John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God that ye May KNOW that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. 14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

15 And if we know that he hear us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

Yes! We choose Him as Lord and Savior. We choose to follow Him of our own free will. We are not puppets on a string nor do we want to be.

Salvation at judgement? What Bible are you reading? Blessed Assurance!

Hello, if that's true then how does that reconcile with Luke 12:10. Do you not think that committing blasphemy of the holy ghost would separate you from Christ?

Kathleen,

You just nailed it! Losing salvation would require works on our part, and salvation is not of works. I also believe that salvation cannot be lost. I believe in the eternal security of the believer because I know who saves us, and I know who has the power to keep us saved, and said He would keep us saved until He comes for us. We've been purchased. We were bought with a price. We have been sealed by God's Spirit as a mark of ownership. There is only one who can break that seal, and it is Christ.

If you ever get a chance to engage in conversation with someone who tells you salvation can be lost, ask them if they believe they personally will lose theirs. I have been in those conversations before and almost every time I ask the person if they think they will lose theirs, they will tell me that they will never lose theirs. I even had one person tell me that they will never lose their salvation because "They love the Lord too much" to ever lose theirs. But the same person will tell you that you can lose yours, Hmmm!

A person who believes they can lose their salvation is not fully trusting in the one who saved them, the one who has sealed them, and the one who has said He will never leave us. We are kept by the mighty power of God. Jesus said all that the Father has given to Him, He will not lose one. That sounds pretty permanent to me!

Hi Andrew, that's not what that verse means. Having the holy spirit sealed to you doesn't mean you're stripped of freewill to commit sin and doesn't mean you don't have choices still of who you will follow: Jesus or satan. We're not saved until after we're judged and this doesn't happen until after this life. 1 Peter 1:5 - "...salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." 1 Corinthians 9:24-27, Matthew 7:21

Also blasphemy was mentioned as a warning for a reason. If someone claims Christians are without sin they are not being honest, Ecclesiastes 7:20. And someone claiming they can do whatever they want (sin) and face no consequences are gravely mistaken. John 14:15.

Link

Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

James 2:14-26 "...faith, if it hath not works, is dead..."

James 2:19 "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

1 Peter 1:13 "...hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;"

Romans 11

Matthew 12:31-32

Romans 14:12

JB,

Thanks for sharing Romans 8:38-39. Paul says "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

In other words, nothing can separate us from Christ, not even our own flesh!

Andrew,

Sealed unto the day of redemption, Amen!!!

Good Answer

Once we are saved; we were sealed by the holy Ghost and God promised a place in Heaven

Ephesians 4:30

And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

John 14:2

In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

No one is saved by the works they do.

Ephesians 2:8-9

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.

And you are saved the moment you believe Jesus died for your sins.

Romans 10:9-10

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. [10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

What James 2 is talking about is that saving faith produces good works. If you get saved, but there is no change in your life, you're not saved.

2 Corinthians 5:17

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

James 2:17

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Once saved always saved is true. If one of Jesus's sheep goes astray, he will go after it.

Matthew 18:12

How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?

Romans 8:38-39

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, [39] Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Of course we are not free to sin

Romans 6:1-2

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? [2] God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

if you continue in the sin and you don't repent or care, then it's willful sin.

But if you do repent

1 John 1:9

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

No one is saved until after they are judged on the day of judgment. We can have hope and assurance of salvation if we genuinely follow Jesus, but the Bible doesn't say anywhere that you will be saved regardless of your beliefs, faith, actions. Does that mean 100% of all people are saved, even Hitler and mass murderers? Jesus said most people will go to hell, so that doesn't square up. He even said many will cry out Lord, Lord, assuming they will make it to heaven, but won't. He even warned his followers (Christians) to obey and not fall into sin. If everyone was saved regardless, then it's unlikely Jesus would have warned so many people with parables.

This one verse Luke 12:10 says whomever commits this sin will not be forgiven. The idea of once saved, always saved contradicts itself, because it assumes a person who becomes a Christian no longer has freewill, which is untrue and inconsistent with the Bible. Even angels in heaven had freewill and chose to rebel, like satan. So, just because someone responds to an altar call and decides to follow Jesus doesn't mean he instantly is stripped of freewill. He absolutely still has a choice every day of who he wants to follow: Jesus, or the world (satan). Sadly, too many Christians have denounced their faith and have turned to follow the world. Becoming a Christian doesn't give anyone a license to commit unlimited sin and those who have spread this lie is doing the work of satan. There are many verses in the Bible supporting this and are posted often in the discussion threads.

Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

James 2:14-26 "...faith, if it hath not works, is dead..."

James 2:19 "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

1 Peter 1:13 "...hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;"

Romans 11

John 14:15

Some believe salvation can be lost. I don't because that would imply some type of condition is attached to it or works required. Where do AOG, among others, get this idea? I have been searching it out but can't find it plainly stated. I believe there is misinterpretation on the part if those who believe this lie.

Can someone please share where this wrong theory is supposedly found and how it came to be. AOG stems from Baptist and I know Baptists do not believe salvation can be lost.

Thank you!

Four Horsemen: Book of Revelation, Zechariah, and Book of John (Patmos)

The four horsemen are described as Satan's army, Conquest, War, Famine and Death.

Four figures in the Book of Revelation who symbolize the evils to come at the end of the world: They are often called the Four horsemen of the Apocalypse:

The figure representing CONQUEST rides a white horse

WAR rides a red horse

FAMINE, a black horse

DEATH, a pale horse.

by PLAGUE and PESTILENCE, Earthquakes, Violent Weather.

They are often called the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.

These are SIGNS we are to be watching for. When they occur together.

Personally, I believe conquest is the subverting of world governments or political power. The Antichrist goal is to produce one world government and one world religion. Also, one world money system, which the Beast will use to deceive people into taking his Mark into their foreheads or hands: in order to buy and sell goods. Feed babies.

Different Bible translations say of MATTHEW 24: plagues, pestilence. Our society calls it "world pandemic". It's a disguise for the truth told to us 2000 years ago, by the Son of God.

*All these things are happening together in THIS century; Jesus told us these are the signs of the last generation of people.

Keep watch on world money systems changing to create the One World Money System. Such as bitcoins and other money manipulations. Don't fall into the trap thinking governments cannot possibly de-value the money, gold, silver and precious stones, minerals.

Revelation 6:1-8

Become aware of Nations aligning themselves with other nations AGAINST the Nation of Israel. God will not allow any nation to nuke Israel. Watch and pray lots.

Mishael

It means the bridal church generation. The bridal church generation is the Grace Generation. Grace will not pass until we see things happen and the Son of man will appear in the sky in the clouds shining brightly.

Hello Michael,

I totally understand your prospective, but lets think for a min. Did Paul and the other

Apostles contradict what Christ himself came to tell us? Christ said: ( Matthew 5:17) Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. So I ask you, has the Heaven and Earth passed away? not at all. So, Here is Christ, himself telling you that the Law is not fulfilled or the Prophets. He also told us to keep his commandments, am I right?

( John 15:10) If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Here is Christ giving you a definition of what the Love of the Father is, it's keeping his commandments.

( 1 John 5:3) For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

( 1 John 5:2) By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

( John 14:15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.

I can go on and on, The Commandments are a must, it's not an opinion of the Disciples, it's the Doctrine of Christ. The Churches have lied to us when they say we don't have to keep the commandments.

Now, you say once saved, a person must keep himself in God's Love, I showed you what God's love is, Keeping the Commandments but you have twisted that as well. ( Matthew 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. This means that you are not saved until the end, meaning if you die now or when Christ returns. The scriptures are self evident, they need no interpretation from man.

The Creator gave us a road map and free will, Choose wisely but I beg anyone reading this, don't let the Church do your work, Christ gave you Books, read them and pray for understanding, The Spirit will guide you into all Truth!

A true prophet will not be denied. He cannot be, for he speaks the words of God! History is found even in the ground, and truly the stones do continue to make the sound! They are crying out ! Can you hear them, oh Jerusalem! Even as you deny His Son 2000, years later. The judgment for you has arrived, your time is complete! Repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus the Christ, the Son of the living God!

Michael, have you considered Matthew 16 and John 14? I gave up using single verse some time ago and either copy an outline or better create an outline (better) as I read.

I call it 'Conversion' and the best description of that is found in Matthew 16:24-28

24 "Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me."

". . . follow me." At this point there are only 1555 characters left so I will just say, 'follow me' is the beginning of a journey, not the end. I have found examples out side the Bible that fit well.

"Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there." Will Rogers We follow Jesus on His path, We keep his teachings not by anything we work at, but by the gift and power of the Holy Ghost which is the final step of conversion.

John 14 The outline I use is"

Jesus Comforts His Disciples (1-6)

Oneness with the Father (7-15)

Role of the Spirit (17-31)

My first sermon used the Role of the spirit.

31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence. (KJV)

31 but so that the world may know that I love the Father, [d]I do exactly as the Father commanded Me. Get up, let us go from here. (ASV)

When I read it is from the king James Version. The language is modern enough to be understood, but old enough to remind me of the Majesty of God.

I do refer to the (NASB1995) for present day language on many occasions.

I do look forward to reading your comments. Thank you and Bless you.

It is refreshing to read the discussions on this site. A little on me, who I am and what I am doing.

I making notes on a study I am doing and moved Matthew 24 to the beginning. The study began years ago Matthew 5-7, the Sermon on the Mount and expanded from there to here.

When taking course 50 years ago I was required to us the American Standard Version, not because of the different language, but for the wide outer margin. I decided to use desktop publishing and now have this study in the KJV with a 2 1/2" margin on the right.

The Matthew Henry Commentary outline

Christ foretells the destruction of the temple. (1-3)

The troubles before the destruction of Jerusalem. (4-28)

Christ foretells other signs and miseries, to the end of the world. (29-41)

Exhortations to watchfulness. (42-51)

The question I now have is "What does Jesus say about those who spend so much time attempting to define the date for the End Time?" Jesus has told us that we are not to know WHEN. He has also told us not to concern ourselves about this, and to only be aware of it. I think of the Boy Scout Moto, when I read on this subject, "Be Prepared"

Ref Matthew 23:23-26 Are those who are attempting to define these things the ones mentioned here?

"23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it

were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers;

believe it not." (KJV)

Bill,

Shiloh was located approximately 25 miles north of Jerusalem.

Jesus' blood does save but notice...

1 John 1:7 "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."

This verse reminds us that the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanses us from all sin IF we walk in the light. Thus, if we do not walk in the light but rather walk in darkness, that blood does not cleanse us from all sin and save us.

Acts 5:32 "And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him."

This verse reminds us that the Holy Spirit is given to them who obey God. Those who do not obey God will have that Spirit removed from them. Thus, they lose the Spirit and lose God's favor and expression of undeserved kindness or grace. That leads to destruction.

Galatians 6:7, 8 "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Adam.

I'm sorry but I left out "not" in this sentence towards the end.

All the Glory to God, We obey from the heart the Laws of God, NOT by command.

Talk to you later my friend, I'm struggling with this multitasking.

God bless.

Hebrews 10:24-29. And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

For if we sin WILFULLY after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Our position in Christ oppose to those in the flesh/unsaved-

- Romans 8:6-13. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

""BUT IF THE SPIRIT OF HIM THAT RAISED UP JESUS FROM THE DEAD DWELL IN YOU, HE THAT RAISED UP CHRIST FROM THE DEAD SHALL ALSO QUICKEN YOUR MORTAL BODIES BY HIS SPIRIT THAT DWELLETH IN YOU.""

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

The 1st Adam a living soul. "flesh

The 2nd Adam a life giving spirit.

All the Glory to God, We obey from the heart the Laws of God by command.

written in our fleshly hearts.

God bless.

Adam, I just realized I left half of the reply off.. Here's what I meant to send.

Romans 6:1-2 (KJV) What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Romans 6:1 (KJV) What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

When Joshua crossed the Jordan, they set up the tabernacle, for the point of worship. In 1 Sam. they are talking about setting up in Shiloh. Joshua 18:1. Is Shiloh and Jerusalem the same physical location?

John 14:15

Luke 12:5

James 2:14

Some emphasize some verses over others which frames their beliefs, but all verses in context need to be taken into consideration. Some tend to emphasize grace and deemphasize works, but it's both just as it says in James 2.

One of the devil's biggest lies is deceiving believers into thinking they don't need to actively follow Jesus and don't need to do anything. If that was true, I don't think Jesus would have warned his followers (Christians) so much through his parables. The Bible talks about keeping strong in the faith, armor of God on, striving for the fruit of the spirit, running the race to the end to get the 'prize'. We can have assurance of faith if we're genuinely following Christ (a Christian), but no one receives salvation until we are judged after this life. If people think they've earned a get out of hell free card and can just sit back and do nothing or follow the world and commit unlimited unrepentant sin and still get to heaven that would be a devastatingly false assumption. God bless. Matthew 7:21

I like to word it like this.

Jesus didn't come to destroy the law. He came to free us from the law which slew us. he came to take the penalty of not being able to keep the law. " Which freed us from the curse of the law which worked in our members.

He gave us his spirit to accomplish what the law could not do. ( Read Romans Ch 6.)

Galatians 5:13-14. For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

I guess you can say he put an end of trying to live by the law for means of salvation. "Judaism"

but the commandments shows that you need a savior.

God bless

Jesus nicely summarized the law in those 2 commandments.

You said Jesus put an end to (destroy) living by the law, but Jesus anticipated someone thinking this so he said Matthew 5:17-18 that he didn't come to destroy the law.

He also said to obey His commandments: John 14:15. So, one can conclude that if you don't obey His commandments then you don't love Jesus. If you don't love or follow Jesus, that person probably isn't a Christian (a Christ follower by definition).

For instance, if one thinks it's ok to go out and kill someone, Jesus says no, you can't do that. Romans 6:1-2, Hebrews 10:26.

God bless...

It surely seems that Jesus put an end to living by the law when he fulfilled it. HIS commandment was Love which fulfills the law which He proved that we fail to keep it all. But His two laws cover everything! He loves us in spite of ourselves so we should love others in spite of themselves. The hardest to do.

Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Our end could be anytime, so keep the faith once delivered unto the saints. KJV was gifted to the English speaking . *GOD'S* faithfulness to David. brit - short for circumcision. Ish meaning Man. The Stone of Destiny , honoured for centuries by GOD fearing, covemant keeping, ordinance respecting Christians. 1 Cor 11:2 , Jude 20. *G* B 'U' Rev 3:14 AMEN.X Ed Muir. Ordained Missionary, 1959 / till Malachi 4:3 LORD willing. XO not willing any perish but that all come to repentance. ALLELU *JAH*.

Proverbs 8:30,31 KJV. :-)