Discuss Matthew 24 Page 45

Hey Chris;keep up the good work.I want ask you something about why Jews and Gentiles have to respond to the finished work of JESUS on the cross? Can you add to something that,s finished?Did JESUS offer us anything by way of an option?YOU do this and I,ll save you;If you don,t you will be lost.No He obeyed His Father and did His Father,s will.HE was sent to save the the ones that The Father gave to Him before the foundation of the world. Ephesians 1:4&5.According as He has chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world,that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love.(v5)Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by JESUS CHRIST to Himself according to the good pleasure of His will.You can,t do not one single thing to earn your salvation.Response or no response;It, all GOD.

Robert,

Are you saying that believing in a Pre-Tribulation rapture can lead to a true genuine born again believer to lose their faith and their soul? These "Souls that were lost," were these saved people?

4. Peter told Jesus he would lay down his life for Him but Jesus told him he would do what three times?

Leave him

Hate him

Die with him

Deny him < Your Choice < Correct Answer

Explanation: Jesus tells Peter that before a cock crows, Peter will deny Him three times.

Reference: John 13:38

CORRECT!

my comment

here we find a interesting statement that peter said he will even die for the LORD he said this sometime before the above scripture Jesus SAID I tell you the truth before the cock Crows you would deny me 3 times but peter insisted that he will even die for him thus peter is not lying according to his knowledge JESUS HRIST did not say he is lying he is just pointing out that he is not ready to do that yet BECAUSE OF FEAR as we know in the bible Peter did love the lord more then all as we see peters journey latter he repents And JESUS strengthened him so as then later JESUS CHRIST gets him ready by many ways finally he says to him today you become a rock so on later on in history books concerning the saints PETER was now ready and actually was Crusified up side down for JESUS CHRIST and the Church because of his love for JESUS CHRIST now that he was strengthen by JESUS CHRIST to actually do what he said before not back then but latter on when he would be ready to do so as he was and did do what he said

Robert: you are a much better historian than I am. Basically I just sit with the Holy Spirit and read for hours; read all the reference notes and flip back and forth.

Jesus was preaching to farmers, shepherds, fishermen, tax collectors, businessmen, religious people ... the communities. He used parables to identify them to Him.

He taught by parables (stories with teaching); He dropped names From all through the Old Testament (Torah?)

Things they were familiar with. Then he presented the Gospel to them.

That's what I do mostly if I am speaking evangelically. Some things some of you say will go right over an unsaved persons, or a baby Christians heads. I once had a older brother in the Lord shout at me: quit messing with college material and get back on the milk of the Word!! That hit me in the gut. I was shot down and doubting. I had a dream that night of the Lords table. LOTS of people at that table! Foods of all kinds, anything you want. Jesus was on my right arm. I was head down and grabbing everything. I couldn't get enough! Then I hear Jesus bust out laughing. He wasn't mocking; He was approving. All the hurt left me. I was assured my appetite was good.

Our learning will equal our appetites. If you just eat junk "food" there's an emptiness in it. Eat the real stuff. What is God like??

We're running a race to finish it. The race is ahead of us; not so much behind.

Write down when and what the Holy Spirit has you reading. What is He teaching today? I feel like if we gorge ourselves on the Word of God... satan doesn't have a chance to tempt us with food.

Who are you going to live with ETERNALLY ? Jesus laughs. He loves us! He encourages us! He is pleased with your efforts. Love Him back. That's all I can say.

I tried to reply through the email, and it got lost again. I still want to reply. I am grateful that many of you are school learned.

My family was hardworking with 5 children, post-WW 2.

I was born to a farm in Red Rock, Texas. As a child, I think I was accompanied with an angel. Almost died lots of times. I had an awareness of God then. Genesis 2:19, God was actually interested to see what Adam would name the creatures. That's the God I knew then and now. I only want Him by my side. The sinful years don't matter anymore. He came and saved me at 34. I've been single 30 yrs since. My relationship with Jesus has only gotten sweeter and deeper over the years. I find Him fascinating; I worship Him as Holy; Lord of all. Whatever He asks, I will to do it. Ridicule doesn't slow me down. Keep your eye on the prize set before you. That would be Him. The greatest thing you can do for God: Father, Son, Holy Spirit, is to worship and adore them. Father is God; the Holy Spirit is the definition of strength, gentleness, teaching, leading. My poor efforts to define are not enough. Jesus is ALIVE! Never doubt who you have chosen to follow.

( Red scripture) 2 Corinthians 12:9, And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for My strength is made perfect in weakness:

I too have a thorn in the flesh. I've prayed for it to be removed, over the past 9 years. It kind of turns your focus more upon Jesus. He knows why and I learned to accept it.

The most dangerous thing you can do; is sit before the Lord quietly, in his presence. Perhaps to sing to Him, praise to Him for who HE is to YOU. You can't do enough of that; it Lights you up!

The singer met the Song, and he understood.

You log in hours upon hours studying scripture, translating scripture, frequently explaining (knowledge of the Holy) to unseeing eyes, unhearing ears. Give your gift to the Lord and let Him bring it back to you with power.

I heard a prophetic word that stated IF the Body of Christ would stand together corporately, their faith would rid the virus's effects. I didn't get a witness in my spirit about it.

We need to do deep down all out spiritual warfare; armor of God in place; sword of God in our mouthes. (Word of God)

Protect our families, Church, Community, Nation, President, Planet: speak it out!

Holy anger is useful to make demons flee. A whole Nation of people on fire with Holy, righteous anger, spewing scripture like lightning bolts, would work. Right now our faith is violated. Quivering on the ground. People are afraid.

I had to do some spiritual warfare at 4 am. Demons do not want the people to follow Jesus, get free and fight back. I did a whole Bible search on Bible wars: victories and defeats, as a new Christian, 32 yr ago. God is with us in our prayers. We DONT have to take this! Jesus said, LEAVE him, to a demon infested man, and those demons scattered!!

If you add "It is Written" to your scripture, demons will leave. Sometimes they come back to see if you really meant it?

You don't have to drive across town to pray for someone. If you can get some other prayer warriors to join you corporately ? The Lord will use you mightily.

I had a vision 2 years ago about the White House. It was in a conference room. There was a podium on my left arm. No one was on it. Right arm, many people, reporters. Ahead of me, a Very Dark corridor along a wall of windows. I stared at it and began to sense the pure evil in those shadows. I knew people were in there. I couldn't see their faces; but I could see their Fruit. Like a deep pool of evil. Later I was sure of one face but I will not say it. God will reveal it.

We are close to the end of earthly things. Make your comment room useful. Dare I say it? Evangelize. Not to stampede. By the Holy Spirits compelling. Come, let us reason together.

I am not connected to prophet groups

Only the Holy Spirit. I don't know why

Here I am, at the Church Parking Lot. It is empty. I am here because God impressed on me that as Christians, our greatest duty is to come together to Worship God, to share in His benefits, to Hear and Learn His Word. To Worship Jesus. But what have we done? We have sheltered in place over a Virus. We have hidden from the Commandment. Where have we gone to seek shelter from the storm? To whom have we turned for protection? We have stopped going to Church, willingly, to shelter in place at home and the local supermarkets. Costco, Walmart, Publix, Fresco, Walgreens, CVS are packed. Lines circle the block, in some cases, to get in. We will wait an hour for a can of Baked Beans. But our Churches are closed. No one in sight. No one waiting to get in. Have we missed the significance of Church? Of why we gather?

Of all things in life, Church should be the most important for Believers. It is there we find Healing for out souls. Strength in time of need. But we have abandoned it for our personal safety. Where do we go to taste the fruit of the Lord, if not in Church? What shall it profit a man if he gain the world, but loses his soul?

Suicides, domestic violence, child abuse, drug abuse, frustration, desperation, hopelessness are all on the rise. But the only place where they can get help for their needs, the Hospital of the Soul, is closed. The Church is not accepting any more patients, till further notice. Initially I thought the Pastor in Florida was wrong to open the Church for Services. But God showed me today I was the one that was wrong. What will we do when times of persecution come? When things get really rough? Will we shelter in place? Will we hide in Walmart? Or will we stand firm to Proclaim the name of the Lord Jesus, come hell or high water? Will we cower or Stand in the Strength of the Spirit?

There isn't a venue more important than Church during this Pandemic. But we have all taken a vacation. Jesus died on a Cross and we fear a virus?

If you are familiar with The Great Revolt of 70 AD, many false prophets arose in Jerusalem that convinced the unsaved Jews that God was with them. They were killing each other inside the walls while Rome was on the outside. These men were known as The Zealots. They even burned up a bunch of the food surplus to force the rest of the Jews to fight against the Roman army. This was disastrous and about 50% of the world population of the Jewish people died in that war and 90,000 or so sold into slavery. If you go by per capita, it was much worse than the holocaust. Some were eating their children for food. It is important what we teach. There are consequences to false teaching. Evolution is a big one- Eugenics and abortion evolved out of that false science. Billions have been killed over just this ONE false idea.

Doctrine is very important and if it, like pre-trib, has a track record of ruining lives something is wrong.

How many Christians in the 1970's, and 1980's did little with their lives because they were told Jesus would return by 1988? I can go on and on with this stuff. They could have born more fruit for the kingdom had they left it in God's hands.

Hey, I love you in Jesus. Don't doubt that. If I am hard on something like false doctrine, bare with me if I come off in comments as a hard person. It is more like righteous anger. If you met me in person, I would bless you.

YOU SAID: "So you don't like me? We're commanded to love one another, by Jesus.

Your objections are with My Advocate. He will decide this."

ME: Of course I like and love you if you are a brother in the Lord and IF YOU ARE MY ENEMY. It doesn't stop with loving just brothers and sisters in Christ. Why wouldn't I? What makes you say that? I think you may have misunderstood something I said. Please give me the chance to explain myself in case I did say something wrongly. If I am wrong, I will repent.

Unless you are a pastor and teaching the pre-trib doctrine AS TRUTH and not a theory when it was never taught until 1830 and based on a 15 year old girl's vision and prophetic utterance, that is something you will have to deal with the Lord on and I would call you to repentance then. Why did you say that? I like all people, all races, all colors, all ethnicities. I DON'T like people teaching false doctrine because souls are lost from it.

Souls were lost in 1844 at The Great Disappointment when many lost their faith because of the pre-trib rapture doctrine.

Souls were lost in the 1930's because brother began to betray brother in China because they were taught pre-trib rapture doctrine and communism became their politics over there.

These are facts.

50 to 100 cults arose out of the pre-trib rapture doctrine. I will name a few. House of Yahweh, 7th Day ADventism, Jehovah Witnesses, Branch Davidians.

Can you show me ONE piece of good fruit from this doctrinal tree? I can show hundreds of bad fruit because I learned it's history, the things pastors and teachers all across America hid from me and millions of others. Jesus said a bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit. Even TEN cults coming out of an ideology or theory is enough bad fruit.

Love you bro. Please make this right before God, you and me.

Mishael and everyone else.

Archeological records do show pre-historic people were religious. Religion has existed from the beginning, not just because God created us with a desire for Him, but because Satan and his horde used it to draw people away from God. The earliest writings are religious; Gilgamesh and Sanskrit. Just as God used to walk in the Garden with Adam and Eve, Satan and fallen angels made their presence known. Was association with these fallen angels and pursuit of idolatrous religious beliefs that excluded God, what the Fruit consisted of? Of course, we don't know. But everything in the Bible points to it. From the day Adam Sinned, to the present. The earliest cave drawings show rituals God would not approve of. Why have men been drawn to spiritual worship that excludes God? Why have they believed everything except the Truth? Out of 7 Billion people on the Earth, there are only 2 Billion that bear the name of Christ.

Think about this. Why is it Christ only showed Himself to a select group, after His Resurrection? Why not go public? Why didn't anyone recognize Him? They sat with Him, talked, fished and ate with Him, and they didn't recognize Him. Why? Because God has a Plan, a design. God created with a Purpose. Why did God speak in Parables and not plainly? Because if He had, they would believe. Didn't He want everyone to believe? The answer is a resounding No.

Men have been drawn away from God from the very beginning. Why? Satan. Satan enticed Adam and Eve by appealing to their curiosity about things they didn't know about God and the universe. He preyed on their innocence and the desire God placed in us for Him. God told them not to follow those things, but like Songs 2, they were enticed. They disobeyed. Gen 6:5, Rev 2:20, 2Kings 9:22, 17:16-18, Jude 1:11. 1Sam15:23: For rebellion is like the sin of divination,

and arrogance like the evil of idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the Lord, he has rejected you. Sound like Adam?

Jesse, that was great reply, long, but certainly not long-winded. I won't do justice to your reply with my comments here, but your studies with your Pastor, though you were hesitant in the beginning, have clearly proved vital in your 'fuller' understanding & appreciation of the Word. That series of studies was certainly God-ordained for you at that time.

Your account of that unidentified person who gifted the TR copies to each one of you (for no small cost for sure), came home as a great truth of the Spirit's work. Our natural man seeks out recognition & applause, but the Spirit speedily whispers in our hearts that He is the One working in the lives (in that room) & you & I are only the tools in His Hands. All the praise & recognition goes to the Lord & not us.

And yes, Judas' repentance, I liken to a person of some renown caught out in a misdemeanour & apologizes with tears for it. Often is the case, that that apology has only come because he was caught out & not of contrition subsequent to committing the error. Much like Judas' repentance & grief. And I do always read your comments given out - I find them substantiating a lot of my beliefs & understanding of Scripture. Keep up the good work - by His Spirit, of course.

Carlos, I'm glad you enjoyed that story - I think I missed my calling. Yes, in hindsight, that Insurance Policy would have led to fraudulent behaviour on my part - I will have to cancel it now.

Since you initially offered the illustration of the mansion as it relates to my building it in the location that the enemy has access to, I ran with it. Therefore to your next question:

"wouldn't it be wiser to just build the house where the enemy couldn't get to it? Or was that an impossibility? Was it an absolute necessity to build the house right smack in the middle of Satan's kingdom?"

That would be an impossibility, as this enemy of mine is so filled with hate & relentless in his pursuit of me, that wherever I go he is lurking around the corner (with his bulldozer of course). And as far as his kingdom is concerned, he seems to have the property deeds to everywhere I go (I would despairingly think, that he actually owns & controls the 'world'): almost like being a god of this world. Wherever I go, he's there, so I figure, just stay where I am & enjoy my mansion by the river & deal with my enemy as he thrusts against me with the weapons that God has given, as this is the only ones that work.

Carlos.

"Bias and conjecture shouldn't be what defines our understanding of God's Purpose. The argument that man can choose is not sufficient to justify Adam's poor choice." I think that's exactly what the power of choice is: to choose between right & wrong.

"However, the argument breaks down even more when confronted with the question on whether there will be choice in the eternal heaven. Is there a possibility the Redeemed will make the wrong choices in Heaven? And if not, why? Wouldn't not making the right choices make them robots?" If I were true to my understanding, I would say that we would definitely have the power of choice in Heaven, just as the Angels do. And probably more so us, being like unto Christ's body ( 1 Jn 3:2): both in spirit & flesh outfitted for Heaven. I would think that with Satan bound for eternity, that we wouldn't be contemplating wrong choices while in Heaven.

"Would not making right choices make us robots?" No, because of the power of choice are not characteristic of robots. If one says, that robots can choose, then it is only because of their programming, of which can't be said of the heavenly host.

"So, where does the Bible say man was created perfect?" Nowhere. I'm banking on the fact that God doesn't create anything with a flaw or with inherent sin, however minute, or else He wouldn't be the Creator of the Bible I know Him to be.

"Where does it say Evil would have no influence?" No verse, but the evidence speaks for itself. Evil abounds, whether before Adam, Christ, or us. It can have no influence on us unless we permit it access. Jesus was the only One Who defeated Satan & maintained His Perfection.

"every person, starting with Adam and Eve, is programmed, like a robot or computer". True, we have programming via our DNA, our nervous system, connected body functions, et al; but our spirit is not programmed by God, though it can be affected or we program it as a result of our sin nature.

Carlos, loved all the Scriptures you gave in evidence of God's Foreknowledge, Fore-ordination, Planning, Choosing, etc, & they are all valid as I understand those Scriptures as given. But our stumbling block, at least in this matter, lies with (not Christ), but with Adam & Eve. "Only Christ was made Perfect. Adam and Eve were not." I really don't think this exchange of thoughts on this matter can usefully proceed further, as our understanding of Perfection is 'slightly' different. I say, 'slightly', as I think we both believe that God doesn't make errors in anything He does. You believe that His Plan in creating man/woman was for an imperfect creation that could then succumb to sin & hence their need for salvation to bring them back to perfection. I say, that His creation was perfect, but became corrupted because of choice. And choice is a valid characteristic of perfection. (see also Ezek 28:14,15: of the anointed cherub). Choice was also a characteristic of the Perfect Jesus: He had choices & temptations before Him; He chose correctly & resisted sin at every level & remained sinless. Therefore Carlos, I really don't think we can proceed further with this - it appears a dead end street for now. Thank you for your time on this one.

(Part 4)

Another place that I wondered about for a long time, was the bible tells us that Judas repented. I used to think that since he repented, he probably was saved. But again, the Greek gave me a better understanding of that. Judas didn't repent like we understand repentance to be, making a decision to turn from sin, receive Christ, and have Him change and transform us. Judas repented (METAMELOMAI), which means he was sorry. But he did not repent (METANOEO), true repentance, making a decision to change the direction of his life. There are so many places in scripture like this where we see an English word and in English we know what that word means, but it's not the same word used in the Greek text. There are places in my bible where I will cross through a word and put the correct word from the Greek text in its place. I'm not saying the translators of the KJV put together a bad translation, as I believe it's the most accurate translation we have, and it is my bible of choice. I am careful not to remove words or add words because I know we are not to do that. What I change are areas like areas like I just mentioned, where I would scratch through the word love and either put in its place the word PHILEO, or AGAPE. It has helped me a lot. We read our English bibles, and there are so many words that we understand what they mean from an English standpoint, but sometimes we miss the true meaning because the Greek text uses a different word. Sorry for being long-winded.

(Part 3)

I would like to spend more time talking about Greek, but this is becoming longer that I wanted it to be. I have found it to be of help to me when I get stuck in certain areas of scripture. For instance, I often wondered why Jesus asked Peter three times, do you love me? I couldn't figure that one out. But then Peter gives a completely different answer the third time Christ asks do you love me. I was like "what's that all about?" But when I went to the Greek, I saw that when Jesus said three times do you love me, he used a completely different word for love the third time. It brought so much clarity to me. I then realized that the first two times Jesus asked do you love me, the word he used for love (PHILEO) had to do with human love. The third time, Jesus used the word AGAPE, the love that can only be produced by God's Spirit. It made perfect sense why Peter gave a different answer the third time. Peter gave the proper response the third time. Peter said "Thou knowest!" That is the most proper response we can ever give the Lord, thou knowest. The Lord knows our hearts. He told Peter he would deny Him three times. Peter said he would never deny the Lord. So when Jesus asked Peter the third time, do you love me, do you AGAPE me, Peter wasn't going to make the same mistake again.

(Part 2)

Finally, I gave in, probably so he would get off my back. Other than receiving Christ 23 years ago, that was probably one of the best life choices I ever made. Not only was I attending every Tuesday night for the Greek Bible Study, but after a year of going to the Greek study, the pastor started teaching a Thursday night New Testament study, lecture-type study, which I was attending also. The pastor has two Doctorates Degrees in biblical studies. He taught and trained those who were going into the ministry. He taught both Greek and Hebrew at the Masters International School of Divinity. Anyways, to make a long story longer, I started to struggle keeping up with both the Tuesday night Greek class, and the Thursday night New Testament study. I had to make a choice which one to keep going to. I chose the N.T. study. That study went for almost 3 years. He told us that what we were getting was more than what many pastors get in Bible College. He said that in Bible College, people were only required to take certain electives, and many would get through without having to take the entire bible. I don't know if that's true. I never went to Bible College.

Now back to the Greek. We had a class of 23 people. One evening at the start of the class, the pastor handed out brand new in the box copies of the Textus Receptus to each one of us. I thought they were just for use in the class, but after he finished handing them out, he said that someone in the class purchased them all. There was no one to thank because to this day, only the pastor knows who bought them. The person did not wish to be known. Had it of been me, I would have raised my hand and said "Yea, I bought those for you all." It never really hit me until one day I was in Matthew Chapter 6, and I came to realize that anything the Lord leads me to do for someone, if I seek for recognition and praise from men, that's my reward right then and there. The Lord will not reward me for it later.

Hi Chris,

(Part 1)

First of all, thank you. And you're not intruding at all. I welcome you into any of my conversations, whether it's to add something I may have missed, or letting me know that I may be derailing from the track. Sometimes, when I stop and think about the things I share, it scares me more than you can imagine. For me, it's like what if the things I share cause a brother or sister in Christ to stumble. I've shared things with people in the past that I believed to be true, and later come to find out I shared some bad information. All I could do was pray that the Lord would find those people and show them that what I told them was wrong. Where I am as far as Greek goes, I would not say that I am proficient enough to teach it. I would say that I can teach someone how to read Greek, but there's so much more that goes with it that I am still learning myself. I do hope to get there in maybe a year or two, Lord willing. The Lord may have other plans for me, who knows? I began years ago by looking up Greek words while I was studying. Later on, I purchased an Interlinear Bible which had Greek, Hebrew, and English. I was never much interested in learning Hebrew, although I have learned some, but very little. Hebrew is also a general language, much like English. How I got started learning Greek almost never happened. A close friend of mine who fellowshipped at a small community church who's pastor taught Greek was holding a Tuesday night Greek Bible Study. His pastor was the one teaching, not my friend. But I had no desire to learn Greek and just the thought of it seemed nerve-racking to me. I do not consider myself to be the most intelligent guy on the block. I was invited multiple times to go, and each time I made up some excuse.

Chris, I understand your argument and definition of Perfection. But we don't get to choose how we define things. Perfection has a definition all its own and it doesn't depend on a person's perspective or sentiment. Christ came to bring perfection. If He came to bring Perfection, it means we never had it.

1 Peter 1:20, "Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you".

Acts 2:23, "Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain".

Isa 37:26, "Have you not heard? Long ago I ordained it; in days of old I planned it. Now I have brought it to pass, that you should crush fortified cities into piles of rubble."

Eph 1:3-5, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms. 4For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love 5He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will".

2 Timothy 1:9, "He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not because of our own works, but by His own purpose and by the grace He granted us in Christ Jesus before time eternal."

1 Peter 1:20, "Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you".

God Planned and Prepared a Perfect Kingdom for us, before the Foundation of the World. And if He prepared perfection for us, what does it mean but that we never had it. Adam and Eve didn't have it and neither do we. Perfection was not coming until after Christ. It didn't come before Him. Heb 11:40, "God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect." Heb 5:9, "And having been made perfect, He became the source of eternal salvation."

Only Christ was made Perfect. Adam and Eve were not.

So you don't like me? We're commanded to love one another, by Jesus.

Your objections are with My Advocate. He will decide this.

Nice story about building a mansion for your family. But if you build a house knowing it is going to be burned down by your neighbor and you purchase an insurance policy, knowing it will be burned down, so you can collect the insurance, I think that is called insurance fraud?

I wish you had made the story longer. I was really getting into it. You should publish a book of fiction. Unfortunately, I am asking for Scripture to support these arguments.

Finally, wouldn't it be wiser to just build the house where the enemy couldn't get to it? Or was that an impossibility? Was it an absolute necessity to build the house right smack in the middle of Satan's kingdom?

Chris, bias and conjecture shouldn't be what defines our understanding of God's Purpose. The argument that man can choose is not sufficient to justify Adam's poor choice. However, the argument breaks down even more when confronted with the question on whether there will be choice in the eternal heaven. Is there a possibility the Redeemed will make the wrong choices in Heaven? And if not, why? Wouldn't not making the right choices make them robots?

So, where does the Bible say man was created perfect? I ask because I don't know if there is and I would like to know. Where does it say Evil would have no influence? Additionally, don't we in the 21st Century know better that previous generations that every person, starting with Adam and Eve, is programmed, like a robot or computer? It is called RNA and DNA. Every cell in the universe is programmed. Every seed is programmed. We can only behave as we are programmed to behave. We can only do what we are programmed to do. That applies physically and intellectually. I am glad, however, that your word of choice is Choice, not Free Will.

Finally, where does it say God created to show His love? But the question remains, will we have choice in heaven? And if we do, will we at one point or another make the wrong choice? If your answer is Yes, how do you know? Isn't someone with the ability to choose, capable of making the wrong choice? Even if he is perfect?

YOU: I remember something about 1918 too. I was trying to pray about that date.

ME: Not sure what you mean by that unless you are speaking of the Balfour Declaration or The Bolshevik Revolution which destroyed Christian Russia and plunged the world into communism. I won't say what race of people were mainly behind that. Look it up for yourself. You will be shocked.

YOU: I do know that Israel's flag was adopted and displayed first time in 1948. I googled that. The emblem is about the Shield of David.

ME: Emblem goes back to the 1850's if not way back to paganism. Actually the STar of David is either the pagan Star of Remphan in the Book of Acts brought back to life or it started in the 1850's under the Rothschild Family which means Red Shield or something like that. David never had a star. Also the hexagram is one fo the two highest symbolism in satanism which you can find in any witch craft book. Why would any church have a flag like that on their property? Lord Rothschild is the one who built the Supreme Court building in 1993 in Israel that has the huge Illuminati pyramid with the eye of Horus (pagan Egyptian god). The ones running that country since 1948 is not who Christians in America think. You can google image this in two seconds. Anything I say can be verified. I don't get paid for giving truth out. It has cost me much over the last 10 years.

I'm telling you pre-trib is as false. They are helping bring antichrist on the scene with this teaching and even donating money to build a third temple. We ARE the temple of God. Helping animal sacrifice begin again is an abomination against Christ Himself and many Christians may not enter heaven over this. It's as if they never read the Book of Hebrews one time. This is a grave sin. God stopped the rebuilding in 363 AD with tornadoes, fire coming from underneath and earthquakes as has been attested to by church fathers, historians, Emperor Julian himself, and a few pagans. YOu can confirm everything. Blessings

YOU: It has something to do with the Return. Israel gained Statehood in 1948. Gained freedom in the 6 day War. I'm not sure if there's an official date of the Jews returning from the dispersion?

ME: did you know many Christians in Palestine were ethnic cleansed right after Israel was given statehood in the 50's, 60's and so on? The Balfour Declaration of the Britains pushed for this and pushed the U.N. to make this happen. Freemasonry really began bringing them back into the land. Luciferian 33-degree High Freemason Albert Pike stated in the late 1800's, that they would start WW1, WW2, and then make Israel a state again and then bring in WW3.

I personally believe this 1948 thing was false but that God started to try to bring back some of Israeli descent over the last 10 years or so, not the freemasons. If you check out Jewish scientist Dr. Elkan's DNA testing, very few TRUE blood Jews live in Israel right now. More live in Palestine. It is even said that there may be more Jews living in Iran than Israel. Most living there today are of Khazaria (old Southern Russia) -descent and why most are very white-skinned. This goes back to 800 AD when King Bulan converted his whole country into Judaism. The rabbit hole gets very deep.

God is trying to bring EThiopian Jews back into the land but they are being kept out due to their color. Most Christians do not know this but modern Israel is big into eugenics, the #1 gay capital of the world, and the #1 abortion capital of the world "per capita". Why would God bring back people for the very reason He kicked out the Canaanites and His people? God has to go against His word. Now maybe the Ethiopian Jews are living godly adn He is trying to bring them back. I don't have all the answers. All I know there was an awful lot that we were not told in America that was left out int he pre-trib teaching.

YOU: "I read something once that 'this generation' had something to do with the fig tree blooming. I'll have to study that again. I don't think it has to do with Jesus's generation.

ME: Yeah, that is/was common pre-trib teaching. Some no longer use the fig tree in Matt. 24:32 to be Israel in 1948. They run into a serious problem because Jesus curses the fig tree in a previous chapter and says in Matt. 21:43, "the kingdom of God is taken away from you and given to another nation". verse 32 is just a metaphor that when all the previous signs Jesus just mentioned in that chapter are all happening at the same time IS JUST LIKE trees blossoming in the spring. Nowhere does it say Israel becoming a nation again as ONE of those signs, at least not in the gospels. Luke adds one extra detail with "...and all the trees" and then in verse 30 says "THEY". So if we are take to take Matthew's fig tree and ADD "and all the trees" from Luke, this means every nation that quit being a nation would have to become a nation again int he end times too. It just doesn't hold any water.

Luk 21:29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;

Luk 21:30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.

Luk 21:31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.

Luk 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

Jesse, I think this thread, & its many comments, have gone so far South, that we are actually starting to head North again. So hang in there, if you're still with us.

Jesse, excuse the intrusion as I don't want to join/add to the thread, but just wanted to comment on that excellent piece you've shared (over two pages). That was to the point & inspiring - thank you. I was particularly interested to learn of your 'proficiency' in Greek, which undoubtedly is standing you in good stead. And if your great ability in English is clearly seen, then we can take confidence in your reading & understanding of Greek.

As well, apart from our divergent views on, say, the Rapture, then we also have to add the type of manuscript being referred to & to non-Greek readers, which Lexicon is being used. I think of JWs & their understanding of John 1:1: we understand, from Textus Receptus as "..and the Word was God". JWs read in their New World Translation: "..and the Word was a god"; thereby removing the Deity of Christ. What an incorrect use of an article can do!! Blessings as you feed on the Word.

What happeneds when someone dies

Thanks Bob for your comments, but am unsure whether you are in agreement with Carlos, that Ezek 31:8, 9, refer to the trees of Eden being synonymous with other human creations beside Adam & Eve, or if you're concurring with me.

Either way, if I can state my understanding of Ezek 31 briefly: Ezekiel's prophecy of indictment was against Pharaoh, king of Egypt. Pharaoh was proud that there was none like him in his greatness, his army & his strength. So God directs Ezekiel to tell Pharaoh to consider the king of Assyria, also great, whose monarchy continued from Nimrod. Sennacherib was a mighty one in that monarchy but it soon fell as Nebuchadnezzar then built upon or grafted from its ruins. So now in Ezek 31, the Assyrian King is pictured as a cedar in Lebanon, the greatest of all trees compared to anything around him. So great he was that even when compared to the 'cedars in the Garden of God', the botany of Eden also envied him for his greatness, which they couldn't match. And this was the prophecy against Pharaoh, & of course we see further his prophetic destruction in chapter 32.

So, "Was the Assyrian in the garden of Eden with Adam and Eve?" Clearly not. The picture painted in Chapter 31 was of a great Cedar (king of Assyria) whose greatness not only surpassed that of Pharaoh, but also of all the trees in Eden, from which one would expect to find nothing else excelling in height, strength & beauty. But even, in comparison, Eden's botany failed. Do we here see other people in Eden? I can't see them no matter how hard I look, nevertheless, God has indeed given us the gift of imagination, so maybe we can believe there were others beside A & E at the same time in Eden, to support our views.

I drew a picture for my son when he was young. He didn't understand the soul.

God formed (mould) Adams body out of the dust: to get his sustenance from the earth (food, water, shelter). That's why dust returns to dust at death.

Made in Gods image, so connected spiritually. Enabled to receive Gods direction. (Name the animals, etc)

God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living soul: that reasons, feels emotions, solves problems, needs love.

I believe Adam and Eve were unprepared to meet the subtil (deceptive) Satan. I think the devil studied them to find an entrance.

Satan introduced doubt. She countered with what God had told them about the Garden.

Satan is evil & had the knowledge: he tells her she will surely not die and 3 more reasons. Tempted with the curiosity of the food and knowledge, she tastes it and shares it with Adam.

God could have had Satan hurled elsewhere but He didn't. It would have negated the FREE WILL he had given to Adam and Eve.

God had to send them out of the Garden and move the Tree of Life, because if they ate of that they would live eternally in a good or evil state of being with free will. Adams status as a son of God was over! He was human, just like we are.

If we accept Jesus as Savior, in our fallen status; our souls will live Eternally with our Lord in heaven. Our transformed bodies will be returned to us at the instant we are CAUGHT UP to become the Bride of Jesus Christ, our Bridegroom. We have a wedding to attend.

Even more exciting if you are alive at that moment!

One of Jesus's names, is the Tree of Life.