Discuss Matthew 24 Page 50

John,

Winter is very severe in Jerusalem. It even snows. Jesus says but also neither on the Sabbath day.

You see, Jesus is talking to Jews. He is talking to Orthodox Jews, and only Orthodox Jews. If it happens on the Sabbath Day, they can only go a thousand yards, and then they have to stop. They can't go any further than that, so they have to wait until sundown.

So he says to pray that it is not during winter, nor on the Sabbath Day, because you will have a rough time.

Why then do you persecute and mock the Son of Man upon the Sabbath. Is he not Lord over the Sabbath. He has not hidden anything from you but invites you to observe his comings and goings and see ye then the Heavenly Father show approval by various miracles and wonders performed by God in Heaven. He has within him the Holy Spirit yet he is under order to remind the world to fear God as well.

John, that portion in Matthew 24 was Jesus' teaching to His disciples about the Tribulation & His Second Coming. I fully realize that many Christians attribute some of these portions of Jesus' teaching on His Second Coming, to the Church's preparedness for Anti-Christ, Great Tribulation & Rapture. However, I stand stoically on these portions, that the Lord actually described aspects of the Tribulation, & has nothing to do with the Rapture of the Church. The Rapture = Snatching Away, of believers was what was revealed to the apostle Paul (1 Thes 4:13-18; 5:1-11): refers to Christ's coming to snatch away His Church before the Great Tribulation comes upon the unbelieving world.

So, looking at Mt 24:20, I understand that Jesus was referring to the Jews at the time of Anti-Christ & the Great Tribulation, that they were to flee as fast as they could to hide from the desolation that was to take place. So the prayer that their flight (fleeing) would not be in Winter on a Sabbath day, was simply because of the harsh conditions of Winter & the legal requirements prohibiting travel, work & effort on the Sabbath for the Jews. So, rest assured that you won't need to be concerned about your flight into the hills, but the other imploring messages by the apostles, that our flight into the air to meet the Lord, will be certain because of our real & precious faith.

I know things are hectic this year. But what does it matter that I should pray that my flight not be on the the Sabbath? Is it some how bad if We run for the hills on the Sabbath? I can understand winter. But why Sabbath?

Matthew 24:37 - But as the days of Noe (Noah) were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Mat 24:38 - For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

Mat 24:39 - And knew not until the flood came, and took (WHO?) them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of

man be.

Mat 24:40 - Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Mat 24:41 - Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Mat 24:42 - Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

The WICKED were TAKEN and Noah was LEFT BEHIND at the end of the flood.

Luke 17:26 - And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

The WICKED were TAKEN and Noah was LEFT BEHIND

1 Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

The WICKED were TAKEN FIRST and Noah was LEFT BEHIND

Luk 17:27 - They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

Luke 17:28 - Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

Lot was left behind - the wicked were taken

Luke 17:29 - But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

Luke 17:30 - Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

So do we want to be taken or left behind?

Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

David S Why is when the rapture / resurrection a hotly contested thing?

It was not even debated until 200 years ago. Look into the lives of those who promoted this doctrine, like C.I. Scofield and you might consider this very suspect. Jesus said by their fruit ye shall know them.

Jesus tells us plainly in Matthew 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed (weeds) tares among the wheat, and went his way.

26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from

whence then hath it tares?

28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together FIRST first the TARES (WEEDS) tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

(first the tares WEEDS get gathered, then wheat last) could it be any more plain than this?

Matthew 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying,

Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

Reference the recent exchanges on this scripture as between Vicki and Chris, there seems to be an assumption that the event in question is the onset of the millennial reign of Christ about which I am uncertain although some biblical commentators also make that assumption. It seems more likely that it is a reference to the 'rapture' ( 1 Corinthians 15 and 1 Thessalonians 4) but I may be wrong. The problem possibly arises due to the fact (if I may say) that the church generally seems confused as to what is meant by the 'second coming' in that this is not a biblical term any more than the rapture is. Scripture does not give the 'rapture' a specific identification although the 'millennial' is termed the 'thousand years reign'.

However, what we do know is that the millennial reign will commence some seven years after the rapture about which we do not know the timing. So effectively, the scripture in Matthew and Mark may refer to either or both. As we don't know when the rapture will take place, we cannot know about the timing of millennium either. The real mystery is why is it that does Christ not know and more importantly, how He does not know.

I'm just going to throw this in the comments about the time of the Rapture.

This may be why we are told to be Looking for Jesus 2 Peter 3:10-12.

Matthew 24:22 says...and except those days be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elects sake those days shall be shortened.

Mark 13:20 says basically the same thing.

That's why churches are not able to agree. And that's why I believe that's why Peter said what he did. Jesus said for us to keep our lamps filled with oil. Be ready now!

It's not going to be until the two State solution for Israel ends up tossed out. The land is DEEDED to Israel and I don't think God is going to allow that to happen. Ya gotta read all those OT covenants. The land is needed for The Return: which is happening now.

JerusalemPost dotcom

Can I say my Brothers, by the Word, it does seem water baptism does matter, there is a correct way, and in whose name we do know.

Acts 10:44

"While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word."

Acts 10:48| View Chapter| Context

And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Peter commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.

Acts 8:38| View Chapter| Context

And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

Both went down into the water and he baptised him.

Matthew 28:19| View Chapter| Context

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Did not even the Lord command us to go and teach all nations baptizing them in His name.

From the Word it is important, from the Word there was a way of doing it, from the Word we have been told to do it.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Mark 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

Luke 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

The Word is our absolute and that we all agree.

God bless you my Brothers, as for me, in humility to His Word, I want to take it just as He said it or moved His people to write It.

The bible clearly states in verse 6 of this chapter of Matthew "The end shall NOT be yet" - this is not the end. Please go and listen to Jason Zelda on youtube. He explains it precisely, better than I can.

Chris -- Thanks for the reply, and thanks for being civil. I still have to disagree with what you said. When you began your defense of your views with, "Wouldn't a believer...", I couldn't help but think that this is not how we must, as Bible-believing Christians, defend a position. When we hold a doctrine to be true, we must not use human logic or, "Don't you think that ___?" We must appeal to Scripture for our views, and Scripture alone. And Scripture, in fact, gives us an example of one who DID walk away from his salvation, after knowing Christ face-to-face. That person was Judas Iscariot. He knew our Lord, talked with our Lord, and walked with our Lord, yet he chose to reject Jesus and go his own way...As for the verse I cited from 1 Corinthians, maybe you disagree with what I said, but I wonder how you can dismiss these very clear verses:

But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. ( Matthew 6:15)

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. ( Matthew 24:13)

He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. ( Revelation 3:5)

There are other verses I can provide, if you're interested. The clear testimony of the Bible is that we must persevere in the grace of God, otherwise we will be lost. No one can snatch us out of God's hand, but that doesn't mean that we cannot walk away from him. Quite frankly, the fact that OSAS is so popular in America, scares me, because it is making people take their salvation lightly.

2020 pestilences - the world is calling the coronavirus. We are living in the end of days. I pray we all will be ready for JESUS return. Accept the LORD JESUS CHRIST into your heart while there is still time.

Simona, in Mt 24:36, you are correct that the words "nor the Son" are not there. However, in Mk 13:32, those words are found. Now this difference does not mean an inaccuracy in the Bible; it just shows that different authors have written their Gospels, & have recalled words or events slightly differently.

So what does this verse mean? I understand this to mean that as Jesus, the Son of God in the flesh, He was not privy to all that the Father knew or would reveal to Him. I know He is the Word of God made flesh, but whether He or the Father had set limitations because of His Humanity is not revealed to us. In Lk 22:41,42, we read of Jesus & His disciples on the Mt. of Olives & Jesus prayed to the Father in His final hours & in agony, "Father, if Thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless, not My Will, but Thine be done". As a man, he knew the horror of suffering & death that lay before Him & so His Cry to the Father to take away this cup of suffering from Him, but as the Son of God, He knew that God's Will had to be performed & so He willingly went to the Cross on our behalf. This verse shows us the agony Jesus endured as both Man & God & His continual resorting to His Father even when He knew the prophecies about Him & that His work of Salvation would finally enable mankind to get right with God.

Simona, You are correct as only God the Father knows the day of the return of his Son Jesus in glory. a companion verse is found in Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

I wonder about verse 36 og Matthew 24. Are the words "nor the Son" missing in the King James or added to many of the other versions?... Does the Son know the day and hour or not?.. Thank you in advance.

The word 'Rapture' is not a biblical word. It is an extra-biblical word to denote a 'snatching away' of the Bride of Christ. So this event, unheard of in the Old Testament, was mainly spoken of by the apostle Paul (1 Thes 4:13-17; 1 Cor 15:51-53; 2 Thes 2:2 (Day of Christ as opposed to the Day of the Lord); & the Lord spoke of His Coming during His Ministry on Earth, but those mostly referred to His 2nd Coming at the end of the Great Tribulation and dawn of His reign on Earth: Mt 24:30-31; Mk 13:24-37; Lk 17:34-37. To also state, many Christians also understand the Rapture to possibly take place mid way through Anti-Christ's reign, & others, that we will go through the Tribulation & raptured at the end. However, 2 Thes 2:7,8 speaks of the 'one' who prevents the Anti-Christ from appearing now. There is speculation on who/what this 'one' is. I hold that it speaks of the Holy Spirit in believers; that if He, Who restrains the anti-Christ, leaves, then the believers go at that time.

How many times is rapture listed kjv bible

Vicki, I agree with you on Mt 24:36 that it applies to the time of our Lord's second coming after the days of Tribulation. The term Rapture = to snatch away, is a new teaching that was unknown in the OT & in pre-Church times. There is of course some allusion to it by the Lord ( Lk 2:34-37), but I think that He is still essentially talking about His second coming to Earth, rather than in the Air to take away His saints. Then Peter reminds us (2 Pet:2-14) that in reference to the second coming (to Earth), there will be scoffers who ask, "where is the promise of His coming..all things continue as from the beginning of creation". We see that now & also easy for Christians to fall into that frame of mind: why does Jesus take so long to come?; the early Church waited expectantly & no Jesus; is His Promise to us a lie?, are some of the doubts that creep in. But we stand on God's Word & upon the Character of the Godhead, that it is no lie, & His Promise will be fulfilled according to His Plan.

A disciple is somebody who follows the teaching or doctrine of someone else. I am not sure where you are going with this, but these questions are thought provoking. I'm going to put Christ into the equation first before I answer.

First, can a person be a believer and not a disciple?

I would say yes. A person can believe in Christ, go to church, believe the bible to be true, believe that Jesus died for them, but not have any desire to study God's word, or be led by His Spirit in order that they might grow in Christ. That person believes, but is not a disciple.

Your second question, can a person be a disciple and not a believer?

Again, if I put Christ into the equation, I would say no. A person who is following Christ, submitting to the persuasion of His Spirit taking His word and ministering it to their heart and mind, that person is not only a disciple, but a true believer.

I have one for you. Can a person who says they believe in God also be an atheist?

First of all I'm just an aging street preacher. Your account of events makes me think of the Book of Job. He had everything taken away. His wife told him to curse God and die. Job held on despite everything people said to him. In the end , he got back everything he lost and more. He had a deeper knowledge of God too. All those friends got in trouble for what they said to Job.

The best church that I went to as a baby Christian was a storefront church. I had deliverance issues and those were prayed for respectfully so as not to scare me. I thought "spirits" were demonic and it was a while before I received the Holy Spirit; which started a lifetime of deep love and respect.

I think you should commit your actions to Jesus to set right. Don't be Christians that go to law with each other in front of unbelievers. Trust in the Lord...He will set your path straight.

The fields are white unto the harvest. Pray faithfully to the Lord of the Harvest. Bring the newborns to your church.

The Bible doesn't keep genealogical records of female children or wives

Unless they are in the bloodline of Jesus:

The Son of Man.

Neil Jesus said let the dead bury the dead and the judge that awarded that to the heretics, well he has a place reserved for him / her also.

Valerie: first you need to find some scripture to support that thought.

CHARLES: you enjoy trying to engage people in strifes, debates, etc.

These are the character traits of Jesus:

Compassionate, servant, loving, forgiving,

Committed, prayerful, gentleness, patience, self-control, humble, creativity, efficiency, respect, deference, tolerant, integrity, confidence, obedience, meekness, virtue, honesty, consistency, merciful; just to name a few.

We're supposed to be learning about these traits and live some.

You have completely covered your feelings about women preachers/pastors.

Did you know if God can't get anyone to carry a message, that He'll use a donkey?

We're all going to be held accountable at the Bema seat of Jesus for every idle word we have spoken out of our mouth.

Angels record in a Book everything we say about Jesus

Let us lift up Jesus. Amen.

Who did Cain & Abel marry?

Chris...re Matt 24

Personal experience...I was in a Christian denomination, whose leaders went VERY liberal, so much so it caused our pastor and others to question their leadership. As a result, over 20 congregations in our country decided to break away from that leadership.Result..?Their liberal leadership sued my congregation,took us to court, and as a result we lost everything...our church building( we were forbidden to use our church building for services, we lost finances ie large donations that were given in trust from deceased members, we were without a place to worship for several years.

We met in a funeral home chapel for some time, TIL we shared another denominations building where we meet now.)

Does that liberal leadership claim Jesus as Messiah?yes one of their pastors claimed there was myth in the Bible, and that congregants should not be reading their bibles!Decide..were they deceiving their congregations? Were they leading them astray? We were not RC

can a person be a believer and not a disciple

can a person be a disciple and not a believer

On Matthew 24:36 Chris the Scripture you refer to Matt 24:36, I thought that was when Jesus comes at the end of the Tribulation & every eye would see him. I was referring to when the rapture of the Church occurs. I guess I phrased my question wrong. The Jews were looking for the Kingdom of God, weren't they, as they didn't know anything about the rapture or tribulation?

Wow!! Are you saying that Mt 24:5 speaks about some who come to confirm that Jesus is the Christ, & in saying this are deceiving many? I hope not. Cause if you are, then you've given a classic example of Scripture twisting or an inability to grasp English fully. Also see Mt 24:24.

However, if I've misunderstood you & my apologies, then I can't see what your other point is. Clarification please? And the 'two possibilities': no answer, I give up.

Neil, are you thinking a second major Flood? I would be interested in your understanding of Gen 9:11-17 & how this might fit in with your understanding of this news article. Thank you.