Numbers
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Moses was also bringing his complaint to God, but God was not angry with Moses as He was with the complaining multitude. God was merciful to Moses and explained that the Holy Spirit would be placed upon 70 elders along with Moses. These elders spoke by the Holy Spirit to the people throughout the camp. I imagine that what they said did not conflict with each other because the Holy Spirit would not do that.
Here Moses learned that he did not have to carry the burden of being the spokesman for the LORD by Himself-God was bigger than that! he also learned that the Holy Spirit was so great that He could be placed upon many people and not just one-himself. Then Moses in verse 29 states to Joshua that he desired for all of God's people to have the Holy Spirit upon them and would prophesy for the LORD.
After the seventy were endowed with the Holy Spirit, Moses and these men went into the camp. God brought in an enormous amount of quail on a strong wind. The quail was stacked waist high or more in the area. The people went out and collected the quail and distributed it evenly throughout the camp. The people gorged themselves on the quail and God sent a plague upon the people. Those who lusted for the meat died and they were buried at this place Moses named Kibroth-hattaavah.
Then the nation travelled from this place to Hazeroth, where they abode.
What lessons Moses and the people were learning from their disobedience and distrust of God. They had not learned yet that God is what they truly need above all else. Perhaps this is why He gave them a daily diet of Manna, so that they would realize that food is not what sustains them but YHWH. A varied diet that they had to cultivate and work for would get their eyes off of YHWH and trust in themselves and their own skill at producing food. They even could not eat of the flocks since these were for the sacrifices and for them to bring into the promised land. They were to resist temptation, but had difficulty with that
The complaining of the people always cause God to be angry with them. He was their portion and was able to fill them with what He knew they needed. The people complained to God and His holy fire went and burned those in the outskirts of the camp. They cried out to Moses to get YHWH to stop the fire. Moses interceded and God stopped the burning fire.
Among the Israelites were people who were mixed-some were of Israeli/Gentile parentage; others were gentiles. These mixed peoples began to lust for meat and for the type of diet they enjoyed in Egypt. The Israelites joined them in this lusting. They complained in their tents where only God would know. They complained with weeping about the manna being the only food before their eyes. Moses went about the tents and heard them weeping and complaining.
Moses was fed up. He was overwhelmed. He was discouraged. He was so low that he asked God to kill him so he would be free of the burdens of his life. Is there a hint of Moses believing in an afterlife free of wretchedness in vs. 15? The verse says that Moses considered it to be favored of God to be killed to be freed.
Regardless, Moses was unable to bear the burdens of the needs of the people any longer. He was at the breaking point, equating the burden of the welfare of the multitude to that of mother of multiples whom she was trying to nurse each and everyone to satisfaction. Nursing and infant is not very much of a burden. It is necessary for the child to consume what the mother alone could supply by God's design, but when a pregnancy results in triplets, quads, quints and more, one mother just cannot successfully meet the nourishment needs of all of them. .. cont. to pt. 2
a. Judas' spiritual condition. I believe that none of the twelve were Christians. They may have portrayed that name (Christian) by following Jesus & being discipled by Him, but could not be considered to be Christians as defined post Acts chap 2. When Jesus sent them out to the lost sheep of Israel, He gave them power for that specific ministry & time ( Matthew 10:1-8), just as certain people in the OT received God's Spirit to accomplish their tasks ( Numbers 11:25-27; Othniel, Judges 3:10; Gideon, Judges 6:34; Jephthah, Judges 11:29; Isaiah 59:21; & many more) - none of these were permanently indwelt by the Spirit, but the Spirit was given by God for a special purpose. As you mentioned, Judas & the other eleven were all sinners, but the day would come when they would be transformed (except Judas who suicided), & do great exploits in Jesus' Name.
b. Water baptism. After the twelve (now Matthias is included here) had the Holy Spirit come upon them, and in them & baptized them with the evidence of speaking in 'unlearned' tongues, were these apostles ever water baptized? I never recall any of them writing of that event taking place in their lives. Of course, Paul did, but he was not of the twelve, as "one born out of due time", but were the twelve ever baptized in water? Jesus had left them before this time, so He couldn't do it and there was no one else that was born again at that time to do it, so I wonder what happened. Some maintain that they were definitely baptized, but there's no evidence of it, & if not baptized, then the apostles would have still baptized others. Or I've heard, that they baptized each other, which doesn't make sense as their testimony was the same. So maybe an unbaptized believer can baptize another.
I've read many of your comments in theses forums. Seems to me you have quite an insight.
What you say makes sense to me. Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts.
It seems to me by reading the chapter that they did not eat of their flocks and herds, but were being sustained by the manna that fell each night. The sheep, goats, and cattle were reserved for the sacrifices laid out at Sinai (Book of Leviticus Ch. 1-70). By following these sacrificial requirements, there would be multiple sacrifices offered daily. The flocks and herds needed to be kept for these sacrifices and to keep breeding for them to have livestock when they arrived and settled in Canaan. Likely, also, they did not eat the turtle doves or pigeons they must have kept as tamed animals they raised and breed.
The people were growing tired of manna every day. They had not been too long out of Egypt where they could have a fresh memory of the varied diet there. Their fleshy self was unsatisfied with the diet God had provided for them without any labor on their part to grow it. They just had to collect it, grind it and make it into bread. Even though the manna was completely sufficient to satisfy the nutritional needs of their bodies, the Israelites wanted more than what God had ordained for their sustenance. He must have set apart the meat of their livestock for sacrifices and giving them only manna to eat as a test to them. Would they be satisfied with the manna when they saw their livestock daily and being sacrificed to God daily without being permitted to slay some for meat to eat. Would they be satisfied with what God had commanded and provided or want their own way instead? As you read on in the chapter, God had it literally "rain down quail" so plentiful that they would become sick of eating it, though they lustily consumed it to the point of gluttony. Also, God sent some sort of plague upon them from consuming the quail. So, thought the Israelites craved meat and got it from the Lord, it was not a blessing, but a punishment for their grumbling against God and his provision and rule of law.
Bob W
Yes, the Holy Spirit has always existed with the Father and the Son in a what the Scriptures call the Godhead.
In Genesis 1:2 it says that the Spirit was hovering over the face of the earth when it was void and unformed.
In Exodus 35:31 It says that God filled Bezalel with the Spirit to enable him to supervise the building of all the furnishings for the tabernacle. Numbers 11:17 speaks of the Spirit being upon Moses and of God causing the Spirit to also be upon the elders to help Moses with manage the affairs of the people. Ezekiel 2:2 speaks of God calling Ezekiel as a prophet and putting His Spirit in Ezekiel when God spoke to Him.
These are just a few of the many references to the Spirit and His work in the O.T. prior to the Son of God becoming flesh as Jesus. In the Genesis verse, it shows that the Spirit predated the creation of the world, which tells us that He was alive prior and participated in creation along with the Father and the Son (the Word). Prior to creation, only God existed, but He exists as the Father, the Son (Word who became flesh as Jesus) and the Holy Spirit, not as three Gods, but as three Persons in One God (As Scripture makes it very clear that God is One and the Only God in existence.
If you would 1st please consider the way it makes you feel. As you stated "horrified" that's not of GOD. Galatians 5:22-25,
2nd please consider all around you. Is there peace, is there light, anything to be thankful for? Is searching out news also symbolic of wanting to "know" what's happening in the news" Genesis 2:17, Romans 16:19,
3rd consider why there's only bad, horrible, divisive news? Hebrews 6:8, Proverbs 22:5, Why do they report the one horrible thing or person & not the million good? Is it meant to trigger rage? Hebrews 12:1, Luke 6:43-45,
1John 2:16, Titus 1:15, 2Samuel 22:27, Psalms 18:26, 1John 3:3, 2Peter 3, James 3:17, James 1:27, Philippians 4:8, Romans 8,
1Corinthians 4:5,
The Word also says: Numbers 11:12, Jude 1,
Hopefully these are helpful & encouraging
1John 4:1-20,
Genesis 41:8, Genesis 45:27, Exodus 6:9, Exodus 28:3, Exodus 35:12, Numbers 14:24, Deuteronomy 2:30, Deuteronomy 34:9, Joshua 5:1, Proverbs 18:14, Ezekiel 1:20, Romans 8:14-16, Haggi 1:14,
Isaiah 11:2,
Leviticus 20:27, Numbers 5:14,30,
Numbers 11:17,25,
Judges 9:23,
Hopefully these are helpful
I agree, the logistical problems for Moses would have been tremendous & doomed for failure if it were not for the Lord's Intervention: from the Lord Who called them, liberated them, & promised to guide & keep them. Considering the great company of people (possibly around 2 million) travelling in mainly desert conditions, we find that the Lord undertook wonderfully.
I feel that the march towards Canaan did not have a wide front of 50 miles or so. That it was probably more of a column march, with a front of say, half a mile & the column extending for many miles. I have nothing to substantiate this, just using the accepted pattern that gives the leader control, order, & communication (just as with a large army regiment marching towards an enemy position). We remember that when the Israelites marched forward, they went in their Tribes behind their leaders (indicating control & care given to a 'smaller' group rather than one person miles ahead trying to oversee all of them), Numbers 2:34.
For their food, Exodus 16:35 tells us that God provided manna for them for the forty years & in their complaining about it, the Lord also gave them quails ( Numbers 11:32). And for their water, again it was provided for them (whether casting a stick into bitter water to make it sweet, or water from a rock, or even from springs & oases along the way). For sanitation, probably a screened off area at each place they rested. It certainly was a difficult life, even as many mourned for the relative comforts & food of Egypt, & many died for their disobedience & complaining - they failed to really trust God to continue to demonstrate His Mighty Arm, both in their travels & when having to face their enemies in the future. Would we be any different in those circumstances?
Numbers 20:7-12, is a portion of the whole story & reason.
Let's look at the bigger picture:
Numbers 20:12, please note it says "Because you believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore._._" , Please read Exodus, Moses' doubts: Exodus 3:11,13, Exodus 4:1,3,10,14, Exodus 4:24-26, Exodus 5:22, Exodus 6:12, Exodus 6:30, Exodus 14:11-15, Exodus 16:2-28, Exodus 17:2-7, Exodus 32:11-19,30,31,32,33, Exodus 33:1-3, Numbers 11:1-15, mercy ( Numbers 11:16-20,) Numbers 11:21-23, * Numbers 13, Numbers 13:30,31,32, * Numbers 14, very significant I believe, when they were supposed to take the promised land please read Numbers chapters 13 & 14, & notice: Numbers 13:30, Numbers 14:24, Numbers 14:22-23,
Psalms 95:6-11, note Psalms 95:10-11,
Hebrews 3:5-19, Luke 13:24, Mark 10:15,
Hopefully this is helpful
When Israel did right by the Lord he gave them rest and the spirit of the lord rested on the leaders! Numbers 11:25-29.
As a nation we've put together great writings on paper and we Identfied ourselves by these writings but we never accomplished what we have in writing. Sort of reminds you of Israel doesn't it? Actually Israel didn't just have the law written on skin, they had the Lord in their midst. But his laws wasn't written on there hearts! And this is the only geographical nation/Country that has been set apart by the Lord.
That ought to humble every other nation! God has raised up nations in the past to do his will and then judge that nation!
Habakkuk 1:5-6.
Jeremiah 25:11-12.
God used Assyria and Babylon to chastise Israel and turn the rod on them.
God raises up great kings to do his will!
Isaiah 45:1.
Ezekiel 29:18-20.
Pride goeth before destruction and an haulty spirit before a fall.
All these nations fell! Now Let's look at Israel. Ezekiel 16:48-50. Notice verses 49 and 50? You noticed God called sodom Israels sister! When God brought Israel out of Egypt God called them his son. He was a father and a husband to them. But they turned from God so at this point he's telling them they have the same father as Sodom, and we know who that is!
"He's not governing there heart" but there will come a time he will. Jeremiah 31:31-34. Noticed verse 33? He will put his law in their inward parts!
Looking at Israel and the way the Lord raised up nations and later judged them should humble us!
There will come a time when his nation will be taken out of the world and he will deal with all the worlds nations.
Joel 3:2.
So let's pray the lost people of ALL nations humble themselves and get on a tract they have NEVER been on.
God bless and goodnight.
The concept of the covenant with Abraham in Genesis was to bring his descendants out of Egypt to fulfill God's promises in Genesis 15. Joseph was sold into slavery later on; and after falsely imprisoned; helped to save his own family from a plague and was highly esteemed in the Pharaoh's presence. There would be a future inheritance of the land of Canaan; as was later instructed to Moses as he was guided by God in the 40 years in the desert after God judged the Egyptians as promised after the 400 years had elapsed. This particular Psalm seems to bypass all the stubbornness of the people; particularly with the provision of the quail which God also used to judge many with a plague when the food was still in their mouths for complaining about their situation with manna and wanting to return to Egypt ( Numbers 11:31-34). Moses himself failed because of anger in the way he struck the rock as stated in verse 41 and that cost him entry into the Promised land; but again God's provision is the only thing mentioned. In all of this and the failures of many Prophets during this period; not to mention the entire original population except for Caleb and Joshua being wiped out in the desert; his original promises were fulfilled and the descendants finally came into the land of promise.
( 1 Corinthians 10:13
Then James 1:13-14 just stating that God is not the one tempting.
God Bless you sister.
Psalm 107:20] He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions.
Proverbs 2:[1] My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee;
That is two different things!